Donald Trump Can't Get Over Hillary

By Jeralyn, Section Trump Administration
Posted on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 10:57:41 AM EST
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More than a year after Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump in the popular vote for President, he still can't move past her. I think it's because he knows he didn't win the popular vote and his entire presence in the oval office is a fraud on the country. There's really no other explanation. Unless it's that he's turned his tweeting device over to Bannon or Scaramucci (yes, that one, who told some paper Donald and Princess Ivanka want him back.)

Welcome to 2018. It's going to be just as awful as 2017. Maybe instead of watching and taking advice from Fox News, Donald should listen to music more. Like the Rolling Stones, "You Better Move On."

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Donald Trump Can't Get Over Hillary | 105 comments (105 topical)

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Can the (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by Zorba on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 11:59:03 AM EST

Toddler in Chief just get over this obsession already???
Yes, Hillary Clinton got more popular votes, but yes, Donald Trump got the most Electoral votes due to the peculiarities of our Constitution and our system of governance. (And yes, I am fully aware of the historical reasons for the Electoral College.)
Trump seems unable to get over this. Among many other things. I wish that he could have a complete mental health evaluation by some competent psychiatrists, neurologists, and psychologists.
Le Sigh.

I disagree (5.00 / 3) (#2)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 12:12:40 PM EST

I believe 2018 will be the result/reward/culmination of 2017.

I just saw that 78 (I believe) women are official candidates for governor in 2018. Side note, there are only 50 states.

2018 is, among other things, going to be the year of the woman -- juiced.

In the coming year we are going to see the transformation of our country. Ending with both houses of congress being in democrat control. Remember what I once said about president Pesoli.

Yeah, 2017 sucked and blew.

2017 don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out. Good riddance. Good bye.

We are not whipped dogs. We are coming roaring back in 11 months.

Get involved, if you are not. If you don't like your country get off your azz and change it. This is your chance. If we fu@k it up it could be the last one.

One other new years thought. Looking back it's on 2017 it hard to imagine why you would not want to be armed.

Happy New year. Buckle up.

I'm hoping so (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 12:34:32 PM EST

We have become two Americas between red states and blue states.

Quality of life is so much better in blue states though how can we not eventually win most of what I perceive to be dogmatic cultural wars?

Who on a majority scale wants their children uneducated with their basic needs unmet? That is what this is all finally boiling down to.

Parent

"we have become two Americas (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by KeysDan on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:57:09 AM EST

between red states and blue states." True, but another way to look at red/blue is cities (blue) and rural (red). And, suburbs/exburbs getting more fluid, previously red going purple/blue....especially due to Trump. The more and bigger the cities, the more likely a blue state.

Parent

I live in a pretty GD red state (none / 0) (#4)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 12:40:51 PM EST

That legalised medical pot last year.

Parent

: And that ain't nuthin (none / 0) (#5)
by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 12:48:56 PM EST

I wish progress was a straight line

Parent

So much better in blue? (none / 0) (#9)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 02:46:30 PM EST

If so, how do journalists account for net interstate migration from red to blue. Must be that old false consciousness again.

Parent

well, I can (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 03:14:24 PM EST

tell you that at least here in GA it is POC coming back to be with family they left behind in the 70's and sometimes earlier when there was a large migration out of the south. They are turning red states blue. GA is probably going to flip blue in 2020 along with some other red states. So you guys need to wipe that smug smirk off of your faces and stop being such jerks to POC.

Parent

Wha? (none / 0) (#10)
by desertswine on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 02:55:30 PM EST

Parent

Haha, got me (none / 0) (#21)
by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:40:39 PM EST

Parent

Oh he's talking about the migration back (none / 0) (#25)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:36:21 AM EST

To the South that was occurring during the Obama administration.

I predict that that is over for the most part. When we could all get Obamacare we could afford the risk of a red state move. That's over. Add the usually poor oversight red states tend have over aggressive/corrupt law enforcement....nah. And global warming making the South intolerable in the summer...nah. I think that migration is over now.

Parent

you've spent a lot of time in the south (none / 0) (#26)
by CST on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:02:31 AM EST

So you're thinking of all the reasons people leave the south and go north. But the people moving to the south haven't spent that time in the south, hating the hot summer, they've spent it in the north, hating the cold winter. Every single winter up here, people talk about leaving, and some do. Maybe they last, maybe they don't, but they're going for the weather and cost of living - and all the other things they may dislike about the north, and probably aren't thinking that hard about the rest of it.

If you are young and making good money in a place where the cost of living is much lower than you're used to, you aren't worrying as much about Obamacare. That's the group of Americans that are mobile.

Parent

I moved to PA from TX. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:39:06 AM EST

Never, ever have regretted it. I make at least $40K more per year than I could had a I stayed in Texas. Sales taxes, use fees, motor vehicle taxes and property taxes in TX far outweigh what I pay in state and local income taxes in PA. So that junk about "no state income tax" in TX is a crock. They get you everywhere else.

The only drawback to south central PA. The food sucks. Lots of bland, plain food and no variety. I do miss the barbecue and Mexican food available in Texas. Have to go to Baltimore or Philadelphia for good restaurants.

Parent

Yes, the sales tax in Enterprise AL is 10% (none / 0) (#33)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 09:24:41 AM EST

Groceries are taxed the same. We paid a lot in taxation there for few services, poor hospitals, few parks, broke schools.

Josh had to pay over $400 a year just to be in the marching band. It has been an adjustment here that he only needs to focus on his studies. In Alabama they have the kids constantly fundraising because the school districts are so broke.

Parent

: PA sales tax is 6%. (none / 0) (#41)
by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:37:05 AM EST

No sales tax on clothing. Lots of Marylanders come to PA to clothes shop.

Parent
: When I was in (none / 0) (#58)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:23:31 PM EST

SC growing up in high school we had girls that came out of the mill village who were cheerleaders. These days they would be stuck be mill village girls and not doing what they wanted to do. Back then they had a closet full of outfits and you just found one that fit and took it home. Instruments were loaned out by the school back then too. I don't know how anybody affords to go to a private school unless the private schools just don't have teams or anything else because you are always shelling out money in a public school for something.
And the fundraising is ridiculous. I would rather pay 100 bucks more in taxes a year than do fundraising. The sad thing is the fundraising is oftentimes for stuff that they shouldn't have to fundraise for.

Parent

One the preschool (none / 0) (#37)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:07:11 AM EST

moms I knew said the same thing about Texas. her husband took a job in Texas and she was telling me that you look at houses and they are cheap compared to here but by the time you add in the property taxes to your house payment you are getting the same house for the same payment.

Parent

: Yes, it isn't always clear (none / 0) (#48)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM EST

Where the tax is and how much things are really costing you.

Parent

When we were in Enterprise (none / 0) (#28)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:27:30 AM EST

I did see the town change in those 10 yrs. But the wage base isn't great, it isn't even good if you aren't employed via some government entity.

I don't think that the migration is sustainable. And this past summer was blazing hot.

The other thing I also consider is God help us when the South has a wildfire due to global warming. The last four summers in Alabama had two years that were considered a drought. The foliage is very dense. I've seen a Colorado wildfire, so when I realized things were drying out as the summer heat rises...it's scary. When Yellowstone caught fire we had smoke and ash for hundreds of miles. I can't even imagine what a wildfire in the South would put out there. We did know according to the Pentagon climate change report that the South would become less humid before we moved there. And that sounded like a good thing until I realized how much combustible material is also there.

Parent

MT. The south is completely unprepared (none / 0) (#31)
by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:41:49 AM EST

for wildfires. Just like they are unprepared for snow and ice. As they seem to get more snow and ice nowadays. At least here in the mid-Atlantic, they local governments know how to clear roads. Life comes to a halt in the south with just a coating of snow.

Parent

Well now (none / 0) (#32)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 09:24:15 AM EST

The "south" is a big place. What you say about snow is true in places like Atlanta and Charleston (who are about to get whacked) but not here. True I live in the northern south. Winterfel if you will. We get enough to be prepared. Tho prep varies from town to town, mine has a very good rep, but the state does the highways and they do a pretty good job.

As far as wildfires I can't speak for any one but the locals but I live in a heavily wooded community and they do not ignore the problem. They are very strict with things like burn bans. You can actually go to jail. And the have rules about construction materials and brush clearing that are not that different from SoCal.

Parent

Burn bans out West don't stop wildfires (none / 0) (#34)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 09:33:46 AM EST

And controlled burns of underbrush in the South seem to be a great preventative as long as the humidity is protecting the forest canopy.

When the canopy gets dry though, and a little dry lightening, boom! Then the controlled burns on the ground don't matter. The fire spreads on the canopy and the heat starts creating it's own driving winds. Ultimately the on fire canopy generates so much heat near the ground it boils the tree sap and the trunks explode, further spreading the fire and very dangerous to fight.

If that sort of fire took off in Alabama, holy crap.

Parent

I lived in LA for 14 years (none / 0) (#35)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 09:41:53 AM EST

And I grew up here and have lived here the last 7 years.

I'm telling you the risks are not the same. Without googling I can't tell when there was wildfires in the area.

I do not know of one.

Here's a huge difference. The fire season here lasts 2 maybe 3 months in late summer. When you go to jail for a campfire.

Parent

One other thought (none / 0) (#36)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:05:10 AM EST

Climate change could make some areas more arid and prone to fires.

So far it's been exactly the opposite here. In my childhood fire season lasted several summer months. Every summer of the last seven I have lived here that has been less true. We are getting more rain in summer months every year. Flooding has become a much bigger problem than fire.

Parent

: In Enterprise it is getting drier (none / 0) (#40)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:33:02 AM EST

And it was beginning to threaten the peanut farming which requires a lot of moisture. Last year's harvest had a lot of issues. Josh's FFA class planted peanuts, they were almost inedible.
It was a boon for the military and Army aviation, because they usually call everyone training in during large rainstorms. That used to slow down graduating from flight school and trying to get your training flights in.

Parent

When I say "the south" (none / 0) (#44)
by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:53:47 AM EST

I'm usually referencing the classic deep south. South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and the Florida panhandle.

Parent

FWIW (none / 0) (#47)
by CST on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 11:31:54 AM EST

I am talking both the south and south west, and it would include anything below the line formed by North Carolina/Tennessee/Arkansas/Oklahoma/New Mexico/Arizona.

Also, I would say that most of the people I'm talking about aren't going to Alabama/Mississippi/Louisiana, as those states do tend to have a larger stigma and less of an economic base to draw people in.

Parent

: Along the gulf coast (none / 0) (#85)
by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 11:58:19 AM EST

You can already feel global warming. The tornados are more powerful and devastating. And even though after they have averaged the temperatures out and it still sounds a little benign, the actual HOT days are so oppressive when you are in them. Those days aren't going away, the number of them are only increasing. It is impossible for me to believe that people near the gulf coast aren't going to start dying during the heat waves.

Parent

Me too (none / 0) (#49)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 11:58:37 AM EST

It is hard for me to think of Virginia as part of the South now.

If Georgia turns blue and Virginia stays blue maybe the Carolinas will follow.

Parent

: I would say (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:18:10 PM EST

NC is likely to turn blue in 2020 much like GA. It is going to be a long time before SC moves out of the red column. NC and GA have both been blue in the last 25 years. SC hasn't been blue in 40 years.

Parent

I have a number of older relatives ... (none / 0) (#52)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 01:33:03 PM EST

CST:

"But the people moving to the south haven't spent that time in the south, hating the hot summer, they've spent it in the north, hating the cold winter. Every single winter up here, people talk about leaving, and some do. Maybe they last, maybe they don't, but they're going for the weather and cost of living - and all the other things they may dislike about the north, and probably aren't thinking that hard about the rest of it."

... on my father's side in northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin who spend the winters in either Florida or Arizona. They finally got tired of the harsh winters.

Aloha.

Parent

: Our "snowbirds" are numerous, yes (none / 0) (#91)
by Towanda on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 07:10:28 PM EST

and not a new thing. One of the first governors of Florida was a Wisconsinite who reportedly fled the insane heat and humidity of Florida to come back to Wisconsin in summers.

Parent

Hello Senator Romney? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Anne on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 01:09:44 PM EST

Orrin Hatch won't run in 2018:

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) announced on Tuesday afternoon that he will not seek re-election to the U.S. Senate in 2018.

He was going to lose (none / 0) (#8)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 01:22:28 PM EST

Parent

since the Hatch announcment (none / 0) (#17)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:23:39 PM EST

Mitt changed his twitter location to Utah.

Parent

he's nothing if not (none / 0) (#27)
by CST on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:03:32 AM EST

A craven opportunist

Parent

: True (none / 0) (#30)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:40:16 AM EST

To what you said above about the young moving south I would add retirees might make up some of that.
I would be in that group. The primary reason I'm here is the cost of living. Particularly things like property taxes. I literally pay zero property tax. That kind of thing can make a huge difference when living on a fixed income.
And not ALL retirees are republicans. Me being an example. I know a few others.

Parent

2018 so far--worse. (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by oculus on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 08:02:19 PM EST

DJT tweets re nuclear button.

this is our president (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:22:06 PM EST

my button is bigger than yours.

the really disturbing thing is that of the two nuclear tweets Kims was the most mature and statesman like.

Parent

Hello, my name is Joe (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by Peter G on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 10:12:22 PM EST

and I work in the White House button factory.

Parent

I'd like to see Trump and the (none / 0) (#19)
by Anne on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:29:49 PM EST

rest of the buffoons in his Cabinet on Ellen's "Game of Games;" it's really the only venue that makes sense.

And it would be really funny, not just scary funny, weird funny, mental decline funny - not that any of those things are actually funny, but we spend too much time not taking the madness seriously enough.

Parent

I think most people (none / 0) (#22)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:47:22 PM EST

Are simply not equipped to deal with that level of serious.
Seriously.
It's just easier to make jokes or live in some degree of denial than to wake up every day and admit you would not be at all surprised if the president started a nuclear war.

Parent

: Button, button who's (none / 0) (#46)
by KeysDan on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 11:31:35 AM EST

got the button. Trump's childish, yet horrible, tweet response is a case where jokes or ridicule may be our only, if not our best, recourse.
Trump, with his deliberate double entendre, once again, as with Rubio's goading, renders himself naked before the world.

The NY Public Parks was out in front on this. Time to put it in Lafayette Park.
Note: Unfit for the office (president or the Oval, or other).

Parent

OMG (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by leap on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:28:39 PM EST

Trumper's apocalypse tweet...

Why is no one pulling that madman out of our White House and into a white room? This shit is not funny.

Parent

Because that decision (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:17:25 AM EST

is left up to the GOP. And never in the history of the USA has there been a more craven and cowardly bunch of elected officials.

Parent

: bombard congress-cowards (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by leap on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:43:36 AM EST

Today I will call all the congress people in this state, House and Senate, Dem and Thug, and tell them what I just said above. If everyone calls her/his congress person(s), maybe the cowards will get the idea that they have to remove this dangerous man-baby from office.
Also, too, Twitter needs to pull his account. Now.
I dream.

Parent

our senses are so dulled (none / 0) (#20)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 09:35:47 PM EST

its just another tuesday

Parent

More fallout from this past weekend's ... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 01:25:04 PM EST

... revelation in the New York Times that then-Trump campaign foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos was bragging to Australian High Commissioner Alexander Downer over drinks in London in May 2016 that the Russians had lots of email dirt on Hillary Clinton.

Yesterday, the Sydney Morning Herald confirmed the basic essence of the New York Times story, and advanced it further by noting that after Downer reported Papadopoulos's indiscreet disclosure to Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, the prime minister then instructed Canberra's ambassador to Washington, Joe Hockey, to immediately inform the FBI:

"The ambassador to the United States Joe Hockey personally steered Australia's dealings with the FBI on explosive revelations of Russian hacking during last year's presidential campaign[.] It is also understood there is now annoyance and frustration in Canberra that the High Commissioner to Britain Alexander Downer has been outed through leaks by US officials as the source of information that played a role in sparking an FBI probe into the Trump campaign's dealings with Moscow."

This is important, because a number of congressional Republicans in Washington have been striving mightily to impugn the integrity of the so-called "Steele Dossier" as the primary source of the FBI's inquiry. The stories in the New York Times and the Herald neatly undercut that argument, by confirming that the FBI was warned / informed by the Australian government of potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence several months before former MI6 intelligence analyst Christopher Steele ever passed on his 35 pages of notes to FBI officials.

Aloha.

Wolff HOLLYWOOD REPORTER (5.00 / 1) (#71)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:12:07 AM EST

"You Can't Make This S--- Up": My Year Inside Trump's Insane White House

Seriously

Read this

If you haven't read the NY Magazine (5.00 / 1) (#74)
by Anne on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:31:59 AM EST

excerpt from the book, here you go.

I think it's all so much worse than we thought.

Parent

: Folks this morning (none / 0) (#82)
by Chuck0 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 10:38:47 AM EST

were citing a 20% figure. Basically if only 20% of the stuff is true, then we are truly f***ed. A fact I have been aware of since last November. I predicted a dotard presidency would be a disaster for this country and the world. The world is already laughing.
My sister lives in China. It is common knowledge there that Xi Jinping played the dotard royally. He is a joke. The US is a country of no consequence. And the Chinese are laughing uproariously.

Parent

The dotards are suing Bannon. (none / 0) (#72)
by Chuck0 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:14:33 AM EST

NOT claiming anything said is untrue, but rather that he violated NDA.

Parent

I would say (5.00 / 2) (#73)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:21:30 AM EST

They are threatening to sue Bannon.

Hard to believe they would instigate a process that would allow Bannon to subpoena anyone including Trump to testify under oath.

But we can hope.

FTR
Bannon is furiously backpedaling. He has said this morning 'nothing to see here - librul media - MAGA - etc etc'

Parent

: yes, and the process of "discovery" (none / 0) (#81)
by leap on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 10:08:15 AM EST

I don't think the Dotard Coalition would want their total oeuvre "discovered."
Although, that would be cool!

Parent

Bannon was an employee of (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by Anne on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:34:16 AM EST

the US taxpayers, not Donald Trump. This isn't going anywhere

Parent

More (none / 0) (#76)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:36:45 AM EST

They have also threatened the author and the publisher

Holy Shiite

We may need more popcorn

Parent

Or Pepto... (none / 0) (#77)
by Anne on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:38:34 AM EST

Parent

HA (none / 0) (#78)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:41:17 AM EST

both

Parent

: Speaking of popcorn... (none / 0) (#86)
by Anne on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 12:21:39 PM EST

please don't choke when you read this

Parent

Just threatening (5.00 / 3) (#79)
by Yman on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 09:53:58 AM EST

To sue Bannon and the publisher. He won't do j@ck $hit. If he didn't figure it out after he threatened to sue his women accusers, his lawyers will explain to him why he can't go down that road. These aren't lawsuits where he can bully a little subcontractor into settling for less than what he agreed to pay them.

Welcome to the real world, Donald.

Parent

Welcome to Amurica. (2.00 / 1) (#65)
by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 09:13:59 PM EST

A near 3rd rate banana republic who will soon be begging for economic table scraps from the Chinese. You kniw the Chinese. The new REAL superpower on the world stage.

I do not think Trump has much respect (none / 0) (#6)
by Anne on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 12:59:58 PM EST

for women, generally, and clearly, he has little to no respect for Hillary. He seems to prefer his women subservient.

But...as difficult as it has been to read and hear about wherever his latest rhetorical pratfall has landed him, whatever blatantly false information he's peddling, I think what's really important is all the truly dreadful, regressive, punishing policy that's been foisted upon us by people Trump put in his Cabinet. And by an emboldened Republican Congress that is busy packing the courts with judges who will be shaping very bad policy for a long time to come.

Trump is the sideshow. Sideshow Don. He's the shiny object that distracts from what's really going on.

It's time for the media to shake off the gossip-rag shtick and start honing some nice sharp edges on the long knives and go at this from places of substance.

I just hope the tide turns before Trump has a chance to set something really horrible in motion.

I actually think (none / 0) (#38)
by smott on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:17:07 AM EST

He's terrified of women

Parent

: I agree (none / 0) (#88)
by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 01:09:59 PM EST

He hates strong women because he's terrified of them.

Parent

i have to disagree (none / 0) (#12)
by nyjets on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 04:32:34 PM EST

Donald Trump may be remembers as one of the worst presidents in the United States, he did not lose the election and his presence is not a fraud.
According to the rules in the constitution, he won the electoral college which makes him the presence. He won fair and square.

: He only won "fair and square" if (5.00 / 6) (#13)
by Peter G on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 04:37:40 PM EST

voter suppression techniques (of multiple kinds) do not account for his slim victories in the three normally Dem-leaning states that put him over.

Parent
: you are correct about (none / 0) (#14)
by Jeralyn on Tue Jan 02, 2018 at 06:07:15 PM EST

the electoral college vote, I was referring to the popular vote but that's not what I typed, so I have corrected it.

Parent
: "Fair and square" - heh (none / 0) (#68)
by Yman on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 07:57:45 AM EST

Конечно, он это сделал.

Parent

No matter how you cut it (none / 0) (#39)
by smott on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:22:39 AM EST

We are headed for unprecedented constitutional-crisis territory in 2018.
Mueller will almost certainly hand down a Nbr of indictments implicating Trump, members of his family/team and potentially members of Congress.
Trump will almost certainly try to fire Mueller, and pardon his co-conspirators.
The GOP will never impeach.

I'm not optimistic. There's an enormous effort to discredit Mueller , which will give GOP cover to say it's all overblown and will not vote to remove.

Not sure the voting rules if you're under actual criminal indictment but assume if not yet convicted , a large number of indicted GOP will vote to stick w Trump , because they know they're implicated ...

The million dollar question (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by CST on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:48:07 AM EST

For me, is what happens in November, and does Mueller wait to find out.

I agree that a GOP house won't do $hit. The senate... it'll be a numbers game that's anyone's guess. Depending on the severity of the charges that come down, I could certainly see some of the GOP senate flipping. The question is will it be enough to get to impeachment? And the answer to that may come in November as well.

I think we all more or less agree that there will be enough in there to get the Dems to impeachment, and that Trump would never resign like Nixon did.

And we may just find out whether or not the supreme court thinks it's legal to pardon yourself.

Parent

I would expect Mueller (none / 0) (#50)
by smott on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 12:27:09 PM EST

To hand down indictments before Nov 2018.
I also think it's important what NY AG Schneiderman can do, as state charges cannot be pardoned by Trump and it would seem that his family members are up to their necks in money laundering. As is the GOP.
That would be a hoot if the entire GOP is declared a RICO organization. We can hope!

IANAL and do no know the details of what would constitute for ex accepting Russian money to fund your campaign. Do you have to know its from Russia for ex? Can you plausibly claim you had no idea your PAC, or your NRA contributions were laundering rubles?

I am 100% certain that a number of GOP know they're implicated and will never impeach, on the contrary will do all they can to bring down Mueller and discredit his investigation.
It's a very coordinated effort. WSJ is all in. In fact I thought I saw a number of WSJ reporters quit after the recent op-ends attacking Mueller.

I'm not optimistic about the future of our republic.

Parent

Not so sure (none / 0) (#54)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:00:38 PM EST

Mueller is coming like a freight train. I think he will have a case so big and so heavy on evidence even house republicans will not be able to ignore it. I also think indictments are coming in 2018. I think they could still be coming in 2019.

I also think he may indict Trump.

This thing with Bannon could change many things.

It going to be an interesting year. In the Chinese sense. I think our system will survive. Watergate ended up being the catalyst for needed reforms. I think this could too.

From laws requiring the release of tax records to run for president to laws against hiring your relatives.

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Here's the problem (none / 0) (#60)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:29:14 PM EST

some house republicans will not be able to ignore it obviously. However there are some that will do nothing no matter how serious a case Mueller ends up building. The million dollar question is are there enough Republicans who can't ignore it.

I too think we'll survive but it's not going to be easy nor pretty. Literally they are going to have to drag Trump out of the white house. I think that if Mueller does come up with enough evidence it might be more likely that the cabinet takes the hit for the GOP and does a 25th amendement to get Trump out of there.

Bannon hopefully will spill the beans about Russia to save himself.

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Let's play it out (none / 0) (#62)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:47:21 PM EST

Mueller brings a shock and awe case against TRump in 2018.

The republicans will have a choice. Act or turn a massive blue wave into a tsunami

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: That said (none / 0) (#63)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:55:03 PM EST

I can imagine some thinking gerrymandering will protect them from a tsunami.
We a living history. It going to be one helluva year.

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So it turns out (none / 0) (#64)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 08:20:08 PM EST

There was a meeting today with Paul Ryan, Rod Rosenstein and FBI director Wray.

The meeting was requested by Rosenstein.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

LINK

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25th Amendment (none / 0) (#89)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 04:22:29 PM EST

Lots of chatter about this. Some suggesting it would be "easier" than impeachment. It really would not as far as I can tell.

Saw a discussion about this. It turns out for it to be permanent it still has to be cleared by a 2/3 vote in both houses of congress. And even then there is the possibility of van appeal.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[3]

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: So all these idiot (none / 0) (#90)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 06:14:59 PM EST

Republicans have put us in a very bad situation in this country. I remember Paul Ryan saying that oh, no, they couldn't get rid of Trump at the convention because it might blow up the GOP. Thanks stupid Ryan because now we're all going to have to look at having the entire country blown up because of your cowardice.

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I am very sure that it is a point of (none / 0) (#66)
by Peter G on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 10:03:42 PM EST

professional pride with Mueller that he will bring each indictment when it is ready from a legal point of view, and when it suits his overall strategy and game plan, and not based on timing that is related to politics or elections.

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Donalds Twitter meltdown (none / 0) (#53)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 06:47:22 PM EST

Was a signal something was coming. I guess it was Bannon. I really think this is a pivotal moment.

Witch hunt just got way harder to sell. Many in Trumps base might like Bannon as much as him. Maybe more. If Trump starts losing that base he loses his republican enablers. They are totally in it because of fear of the base.

It seems clear Bannon wants a life after Trump. I would say he is in as good a position as anyone to know what's coming.

Rats leaving a sinking ship.

Bannon (none / 0) (#55)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:04:58 PM EST

a Nazi & Klansman is trying to figure out a way to avoid spending time incarcerated in a prison way too full of African American men. How long do you think that sucker would last?

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I think he may (none / 0) (#56)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:10:25 PM EST

Have figured out a way.

One thing being discussed a lot about this book is how much of it is given a direct quotes. How could this author possibly know the exact content of so many different conversations with so many different people.

It's total speculation but I can think of one way.

Recordings

Just think about what that would mean.

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Well, that didn't take long (5.00 / 1) (#67)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 07:42:45 AM EST

Michael Wolff has tapes to back up quotes in his incendiary book -- dozens of hours of them.

LINK

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He'd have been crazy not to, which has (none / 0) (#69)
by Anne on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 08:26:47 AM EST

to be the reason they're all losing their minds: they know those tapes are headed straight for Mueller.

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This Wolf guy (5.00 / 2) (#70)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 08:33:41 AM EST

Is a piece of work. I remember what he was saying and writing after and even during the election. He had nothing but good things to say. About Trump. About Bannon. He was smart enough to know that's all it would take to get Trump to give him what was apparently unprecedented access.

He was a fixture in the west wing they say. He probably even told Trump the title

FIRE AND FURY

you know he would love that.

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Bravo (none / 0) (#92)
by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 10:16:19 PM EST

He was smart enough to know that's all it would take to get Trump to give him what was apparently unprecedented access.

This guy spent a year and a half being accused of shilling and sucking up, but all the time he was running a "long con" on a con man.

Remarkable journalism.

He will have to be destroyed. /s

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: Oh (none / 0) (#99)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 04:49:40 PM EST

THE SHARK
BITES!!

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They are now attempting to attack him (none / 0) (#87)
by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 12:58:58 PM EST

For violating White House security by having a recording device.

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: When you open a can of worms (none / 0) (#93)
by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 10:18:20 PM EST

...the only solution is to find a bigger can.
Wolff is safe from legal action. Discovery and depositions terrify the Trumpers.

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If Bannon (none / 0) (#59)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:25:22 PM EST

has recordings and Papdopulous has recordings and who knows else has recordings darn I'm going to think everyone in the white house was wearing a wire except for Trump.

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: Bannon (none / 0) (#61)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 03, 2018 at 07:35:11 PM EST

Seems like a guy who might have made his own recordings.
If 25% of the stuff in this book is true he knew very well what was coming and might see the need to protect himself.
The quote about the Comey firing stands out. (Paraphrase) he might as well fire him because it will just speed up the process of impeachment.
If I was Bannon, if I believed that at THAT time, I would damn sure have been recording every conversation I had.

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They're trying again (none / 0) (#80)
by Yman on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 10:04:38 AM EST

Justice Department will again probe Clinton's email server

How transparent can they be? Just days after Trump told them to do so. Will anyone at DOJ stand up to this garbage?

Desperation makes (none / 0) (#83)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 10:54:20 AM EST

people do incredibly stupid things.

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: That's for sure. (none / 0) (#94)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 01:32:32 PM EST

Ga6thDem: "Desperation makes people do incredibly stupid things."
Just look at the nonsensical hay Congressman Devin Nunes is presently making over Fusion GPS, as though former MI6 operative Christopher Steele's 35 pages of notes was the primary problem here and not the Trump campaign's collusion with Russian intelligence services.
Honestly, if Nunes wasn't on Robert Mueller's list of potential witnesses and targets before this latest escapade down the rabbit hole, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he is now.
But when all is finally said and done here, if the trap door does finally open under Donald Trump and he falls from power, it will likely happen because Robert Mueller's investigation will have turned that key on the issue of international money laundering, and not necessarily on the specific matter of the Trump campaign's now-readily apparent conspiracy with Vladimir Putin's intelligence services to game the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
Future historians may well note that Trump's worst business decision occurred the day he impetuously announced his presidential candidacy, a vainglorious but ultimately foolish move which eventually exposed the entirety of his family's financial operations to serious legal scrutiny.
For opportunistic Republicans such as Nunes, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Trump's 2016 electoral victory over Hillary Clinton may also prove to have been entirely pyrrhic in nature for the GOP, particularly if it's shown that Russian money and assistance also found its way to various Republican campaigns other than Trump's.
And how ironic would it be, if the Republicans' obsessive hatred and compulsive pursuit of Bill and Hillary Clinton over the last quarter-century winds up being the root cause of their own party's eventual political unraveling and demise?
I'm getting way ahead of myself, obviously -- but a boy can dream, can't he?
Aloha.

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"Hey, kids, let's put on a show!" (none / 0) (#84)
by Anne on Thu Jan 04, 2018 at 11:20:17 AM EST

Donald J. Trump, Executive Producer.

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Honestly, the increasingly erratic behavior ... (none / 0) (#95)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 03:31:08 PM EST

... of congressional Republicans regarding the Trump-Russia inquiry is fast becoming inexplicable, especially if one was heretofore inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and accept their intentions as good and honorable. Rather, it appears evermore to be something akin to a rising and collective political panic.

And this, of course, naturally leads one to suspect that whatever it is that the GOP is presently seeking to hide here with their repeated attempts at diversion and obfuscation, it is very likely something that's quite serious or hideous, and perhaps even fatally damning to that party's future political prospects and organizational viability:

The New York Times | January 5, 2018
Republican Senators Raise Possible Charges Against Author of Trump Dossier - "More than a year after Republican leaders promised to investigate Russian interference in the presidential election, two influential Republicans on Friday made the first known congressional criminal referral in connection with the meddling -- against one of the people who sought to expose it.

"Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a senior committee member, told the Justice Department they had reason to believe that a former British spy, Christopher Steele, lied to federal authorities about his contacts with reporters regarding information in the dossier, and they urged the department to investigate. The committee is running one of three congressional investigations into Russian election meddling, and its inquiry has come to focus, in part, on Mr. Steele's explosive dossier that purported to detail Russia's interference and the Trump campaign's complicity."

"The decision by Mr. Grassley and Mr. Graham to single out the former intelligence officer behind the dossier -- and not anyone who may have taken part in the Russian interference -- infuriated Democrats and raised the stakes in the growing partisan battle over the investigations into Mr. Trump, his campaign team and Russia."

At this point, the potential constitutional crisis which so many of us had feared is now likely inevitable, and its root cause may not be isolated solely to the actions of the executive branch or one particular presidential campaign organization.

I mean, how else to logically explain why Messrs. Grassley, Graham, Nunes, et al., would circle the wagons like this around a truly odious creature like Donald Trump, whom none of them really like and care for -- and further, why Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell would sit passively by and allow them to do it?

That is, there were probably others well placed within the upper echelons of the GOP itself, aside from Trump and his cronies, who were also in cahoots with the Kremlin and its criminal oligarchy prior to and / or during the 2016 election campaign. And such a Faustian bargain could explain why so many Republicans now view Robert Mueller's investigation as an existential and even mortal threat.

Gird your loins, everyone. This looming confrontation will be brutal. And be prepared to take to the streets, if necessary.

Aloha.

Not (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by FlJoe on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 03:55:00 PM EST

erratic at all, it's a naked tyrannical power grab, They are going after the Clinton foundation full bore again. `IMO the constitutional crisis is already upon us, the system of checks and balances has utterly failed and Republicans will do literally anything to retain the power that they have.

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I must respectfully disagree. (none / 0) (#101)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 04:54:20 PM EST

Not because it can't happen, but because we're not quite there yet. Right now, the Republicans are desperate to divert the public's focus from Robert Mueller's criminal investigation, and so they're rallying their base by baselessly claiming a Democratic conspiracy against Trump. There's an element of authoritarianism in their actions, to be sure, but as of right now they're generally assuming a defensive posture.

It will become a naked power grab if and when Republicans actively undertake to suppress the Mueller inquiry, because (a) that probe remains a very real threat to them; and (b) it represents one key component in the overall equation which is definitely not under their direct control. To that end, the Special Counsel is the proverbial loose cannon rolling around on the top deck of the GOP's ship of fools.

And if they're perceiving their own prospective ruin along with potential indictments and imprisonments, the temptation to seize control of that investigation may likely be too much for them to resist. It would amount to a coup attempt, so active vigilance on our part right now means everything.

Because if it ever does reach that particular point where they attempt to shut Mueller down by firing him or worse, there will be no turning back for them -- or for us, either, for that matter. The battle will and must be joined, and when the noise dies down and the smoke finally clears, it will either be them or us who are left standing. Not both.

Aloha.

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After thought (none / 0) (#102)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 05:19:51 PM EST

I just heard.

It could be obstruction is not what they are worried about but conspiracy. Which several elected officials are now and maybe before now are skating very close to.

It makes sense to me. They don't care enough about Trump to take risks. What can he sign Pence can't. They are worried about themselves

IMO

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Conspiracy (none / 0) (#103)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 05:22:45 PM EST

Which is not at all necessarily just about the "cover up"

There is reported evidence the RNC was involved in using the stolen information.

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To follow up on my earlier posts about ... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jan 06, 2018 at 01:54:56 AM EST

... financial contributions and laundered money, this is a great article on the subject which caught my attention about three weeks ago but unfortunately, it didn't receive much if any subsequent public discussion. Still, it's definitely worth a read:

Dallas Morning News | December 15, 2017
How Putin's proxies helped funnel millions into GOP campaigns - "As Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team probes deeper into potential collusion between Trump officials and representatives of the Russian government, investigators are taking a closer look at political contributions made by U.S. citizens with close ties to Russia.

"Buried in the campaign finance reports available to the public are some troubling connections between a group of wealthy donors with ties to Russia and their political contributions to President Donald Trump and a number of top Republican leaders. And thanks to changes in campaign finance laws, the political contributions are legal. We have allowed our campaign finance laws to become a strategic threat to our country." (Emphasis is mine.)

This may well be the reason why Republicans are so eager to shut down the investigation into the Trump campaign's ties with the Kremlin. It appears that GOP lawmakers and the party itself may be guilty of having accepted laundered Russian money. Again, per the Dallas Morning News:

"An example is Len Blavatnik, a dual U.S.-U.K. citizen and one of the largest donors to GOP political action committees in the 2015-16 election cycle. Blavatnik's family emigrated to the U.S. in the late '70s from the U.S.S.R. and he returned to Russia when the Soviet Union began to collapse in the late '80s.

"Data from the Federal Election Commission show that Blavatnik's campaign contributions dating back to 2009-10 were fairly balanced across party lines and relatively modest for a billionaire. During that season he contributed $53,400. His contributions increased to $135,552 in 2011-12 and to $273,600 in 2013-14, still bipartisan.

"In 2015-16, everything changed. Blavatnik's political contributions soared and made a hard right turn as he pumped $6.35 million into GOP political action committees, with millions of dollars going to top Republican leaders including Sens. Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham." (Emphasis is mine,)

Here are some of the specifics:

"Len Blavatnik contributed a total of $3.5 million to a PAC associated with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. He contributed $1.5 million to the GOP Senate Leadership Fund PAC in the name of Access Industries and another $1 million in the name of AI-Altep Holdings."
"Blavatnik contributed a total of $1.5 million to PACs associated with Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida. He contributed $1.25 million to the Conservative Solutions PAC in the name of Access Industries."
"Blavatnik contributed $1.1 million to Unintimidated PAC, associated with Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, via Access Industries."
"Blavatnik contributed $800,000 to the Security is Strength PAC, associated with Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., via Access Industries."
"Blavatnik contributed $1 million to President Donald Trump's Inaugural Committee via Access Industries. A company spokesperson denied the gift represented significant support for Trump."

We should be both appalled and frightened by this development.

Aloha.

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Federal law also prohibits political campaigns ... (none / 0) (#104)
by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jan 06, 2018 at 01:11:59 AM EST

... from receiving financial and material assistance of any kind from foreign nationals and governments. So you can likely add that violation to the "in receipt of stolen property" charge.

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It feels a bit like (none / 0) (#97)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 04:32:48 PM EST

A desperate attempt to get out in front of something. Like they might think something is coming.

The "pregnant pause" from Mr Mueller must be close to full term.

It was just said they are not even charging any intentional wrongdoing in this "referral". All they say is it is a "material misstatement in a criminal investigation". Which seems so intentionally vague it could be anything.

Smells like distraction to me.

Likewise the "Clinton Foundation investigation" It feels like nothing more than giving the man baby some distraction so he doesn't push the button and take us all with him.

I have a sneaking suspicion neither Steele or the Clinton are losing any sleep over this.

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: It migth (none / 0) (#98)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 04:48:48 PM EST

not be about the man baby as much as their base who they've sold a pack of lies to about Steele, the Clinton foundation et al. Their voting base is probably demanding this BS be done. However sooner or later it is going to be the end of the GOP. I don't see how they are going to survive.

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Yes, I believe (none / 0) (#100)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 05, 2018 at 04:50:51 PM EST

it runs through the entire GOP and that is one of the reasons why they are acting the way they are. Remember that story of the GOP getting a hold of emails that affected the D primary and they got a weaker candidate to run against in Florida? I wish I could remember the details but it was yet another example of the GOP pairing itself with Putin.

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Donald Trump Can't Get Over Hillary | 105 comments (105 topical)

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