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Pipe Bombs in the Hands of Trump Supporters

Donald Trump blames the media for the suspicious packages containing pipe bombs sent to prominent Democrats/liberals.

The FBI statement is here.

Sorry, Trump, but the culprits are your under-informed supporters (as is evident from the multiple misspellings and misaddressed packages alone. i.e., "Ms. Wasserman Schultz’s last name lacked an “h” in Schultz. Her address in Florida was spelled “Florids.” Mr. Brennan’s name was missing an “n.”"). [More....]

One of the bomb targets, John Brennan, tweets:

“Stop blaming others. Look in the mirror. Your inflammatory rhetoric, insults, lies, & encouragement of physical violence are disgraceful. Clean up your act ... try to act Presidential. The American people deserve much better. BTW, your critics will not be intimidated into silence,” Brennan said.

Donald Trump cannot act presidential because it is outside his skill set. The solution to the Donald Trump fiasco is to vote out the Republicans on Nov. 3, as Republicans will blame him for their loss. Loss of Republican control of Congress is the first step to ensuring the carnival barker named Donald Trump and his inexperienced nepotism appointees are tossed out of the White House on their ears in 2020.

The media neither causes rage nor provides a vehicle to express it. By contrast, Trump's incessant misrepresentation of reality (i.e. lies) and his constant belittling and taunting of his prominent critics by calling them names results in fanaticism and the build-up of rage in his fanboys, until it reaches a boiling point, which they then express through attempted acts of violence.

Shorter version: Dump the Trump.

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    Jeralyn, election day is November 6 (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Towanda on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 08:42:43 PM EST
    It is engraved in my brain, because we have been working hard for months for a candidate for our state legislature -- one of my siblings.

    (To think that I used to change the diapers of a potential state legislator. . . . Yeah, with that and other stories from his big sis, I don't know why he won't accept my offer to make speeches for him.)

    He is a long shot in a Republican district, and with the severe voter suppression here, but we are hoping for the blue wave.

    So Trump not only comes to Pittsburgh (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by smott on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 04:35:57 PM EST
    But goes INSIDE the Tree of Life synagogue.
    This piece of garbage walks on holy land that he turned into a slaughterhouse.
    I'm SO enraged.
    This fucker basically trolled the Pittsburgh Jewish Community.

    He walked into the sanctuary where two brothers, both mentally disabled, Cecil and David Rosenthal, LOVED to come and help w services. Greeting, carrying Torah and prayer books. Trump walked on the ground where 97-yr old Rose Mallinger was slaughtered. Rose who escaped Nazi Germany, only to be blown to bits by Nazi America in the form of a grotesque coward named Rob Bowers.

    I cannot believe that Trump dared to desecrate Tree of Life with his presence.

    I'm enraged beyond words. Trump is a monster.

    Trump is the (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by leap on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 04:51:42 PM EST
    most disgusting human life-form that walks this Earth. I hate him with the heat of a thousand suns.

    Parent
    He really seems bent (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 06:38:36 PM EST
    On self destruction.  This uninvited visit thing is just bizarre.

    Seriously, who does he think he is impressing?  No one met him at the airport except a national guard General.

    Massive counter demonstration.  Very unmob like.

    It's just crazy.

    Parent

    I think it's not bizarre though it seems so (5.00 / 5) (#171)
    by smott on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 06:46:34 PM EST
    He's consciously trolling.
    He's flipping the bird to the grieving Pittsburgh Jewish community.
    He's pissing on Tree of Life and the sanctuary that was soaked w blood last Shabbat.

    This was on purpose. A real Fuck You.

    Man I try not to hate anybody but Trump has defeated me. I hate that motherfucker. Ugh.

    Parent

    Oh definitely (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 06:53:44 PM EST
    I just don't understand what he thinks it will do except put the Senate back in play.  Which is already being discussed.

    His approval dropped 4 points last week.  To 40.
    I say thirtys before election day.

    (You know you comments might be deleted because of the f word)

    But I agree completely

    Parent

    At (none / 0) (#174)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 07:50:43 PM EST
    this point he is obviously not thinking at all, he his operating  on pure gut instinct, always on the attack. In his deluded mind it was his enemies asking him not to go, in his mind he had no choice but to go. Elections be damned no one tells tRump what not to do.

     

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 07:55:42 PM EST
    That if dems win the house things will mostly just get ugly.  But if by some miracle, which smart people like Charlie Cook are beginning to say is possible, we take the Senate or even get it to 50-50, republicans are going to turn on Trump like a can of bad clams.

    Because what he is doing right now will be the reason.  And that could not be more clear or obvious

    Parent

    Because in 2 years (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 08:04:06 PM EST
    Republicans are going to potentially have a worse year than democrats have this year.  And again 2 years after that.

    If Muller gives them a reason they will burn him down

    Parent

    One of the worst comments (1.00 / 2) (#169)
    by McBain on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 05:22:38 PM EST
    I've read in a while.  

    Parent
    site violator! (5.00 / 3) (#173)
    by leap on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 06:59:12 PM EST
    ugh

    Parent
    That was really unnecessary. (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 09:43:42 PM EST
    All you had to do is scroll by and ignore it. But then you just couldn't resist, could you? At some point, I hope that one day, you'll finally come to realize that the world out there is complex, diverse, and complicated. Most certainly, its inhabitants don't revolve around or even necessarily care about your Wonder-bread concerns, given that you've done remarkably little if anything to acknowledge the validity of anyone else's.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    smott's comment should be deleted (1.50 / 2) (#179)
    by McBain on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 01:26:19 PM EST
    Blaming Trump for the shooting and then throwing an F-bomb. Terrible.  

    Your comment wasn't  much better.

    At some point, I hope that one day, you'll finally come to realize that the world out there is complex, diverse, and complicated.

    None of that justifies what smott wrote or has anything to do with me.


    Parent
    So are you seriously claiming (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 04:25:04 PM EST
    all the lurid, overheated rhetoric and scare-mongering about "caravans of invaders" on Fox, talk radio, and online has nothing to do with Trump and the MAGA movement?

    There's a reason why Trump Never publicly calls out these socially irresponsible creeps, except in the vaguest terms possible. The same reason he Never calls out the vile cretins who harass the victims of mass shootings: because he needs them. Those are his people.

    Parent

    In (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by FlJoe on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 04:44:10 PM EST
    the words of the killer
    "I have noticed a change in people saying 'illegals' that now say 'invaders'," read one post, six days before the shooting. "I like this."
    They are playing with fire and they know it, they claim innocence  yet they continue with the inflammatory rhetoric.

    Parent
    Jondee, I'm claiming (1.00 / 1) (#185)
    by McBain on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 05:41:03 PM EST
    smott's comment that Trump turned the Tree of Life synagogue into a "slaughterhouse" was terrible.  Talk about overheated rhetoric.  

    Parent
    Well, it was a slaughterhouse (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 06:20:09 PM EST
    and now we're arguing over where the responsibility for it lies.

    Trump's at the head of a movement that's been stoking the nativist/racialist flames. That they farm out the more unhinged stuff to talk radio and anonymous trolls doesn't mean Trump's hands are clean by any means.

    Parent

    Robert Bowers (none / 0) (#183)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 04:38:54 PM EST
    initial gateway drug to planet wingnut was local conservative talk radio douche-nozzle (every major city has one) Jim Quinn.

    Robert apparently was a big fan.


    Parent

    Yes! (none / 0) (#180)
    by MKS on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 03:27:22 PM EST
    Blaming Trump for the shooting and then throwing an F-bomb. Terrible


    Parent
    To subtle (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 03:47:25 PM EST
    You will probably get a 5

    Parent
    I guess we are reduced (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 25, 2018 at 08:56:06 PM EST
    To being they are to stupid to make bombs that work.

    To being (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 25, 2018 at 08:56:50 PM EST
    Glad

    Parent
    Did not expect this (none / 0) (#3)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:12:44 AM EST
    Chuck Todd fears Russians behind pipe bombs.

    From what I have seen who ever built the pipe bombs used a design that almost assured they would not explode.  I can't find anything about the how the timing was set to ignite the explosive but give how the USPS works and no one could know when the device would be in the hands of the target.

    Not to mention none of the peeps the bombs were sent have opened their mail in years.  In fact most of them are traveling extensively rather than being at the address the packages were sent too.

    I am reminded of this blurb from "The Silence of the Lambs"

    "Ardelia Mapp: Is this Lecter's handwriting? Clarice, doesn't this random scattering of sites seem desperately random - like the elaborations of a bad liar? Ta, Hannibal Lecter.
    Clarice Starling: Desperately random. What does he mean?
    Ardelia Mapp: Not random at all, maybe. Like there's some pattern here...?
    "
    The Silence of the Lambs - 1991



    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 08:20:45 AM EST
    I certainly wouldn't put it past the Russians to attempt to do something like that. However the Russians are also Trump fanbois. So it still would likely be a Trump supporter.

    Parent
    Still (none / 0) (#4)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:14:46 AM EST
    on my first cup of coffee.  Had an unneeded "the" and should have said the peeps have not opened their mail.

    Parent
    some or all the bombs (none / 0) (#5)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:39:16 AM EST
    passed through the lovely city of Opa -Locka, Florida, part of Miami.

    Parent
    Aren't (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 08:21:35 AM EST
    there a lot of Russian mafiosos in Miami?

    Parent
    I grew up in Miami, really (none / 0) (#13)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:57:53 AM EST
    Coral Gables.  The Russians tend to avoid the ghetto sections of Miami and Opa-Locka has turned into one of the bad areas.  It is almost exclusively minority and many are immigrants.  There are few, if any, Trump supporters in the area.  I would guess (census data is not dispositive) a huge majority of the population has a connection to Haiti and many do not speak English, less yet vote for any pol.

    There has been a lot of speculation about security vids being used and I have to say I was reminded of this exchange between James Bond and a CIA agent in "Live and Let Die"

    James Bond: Harold Stutter, CIA, where were you when I didn't need you?
    Harold Strutter: Quite obvious you weren't getting out front, not even with that clever disguise you're wearing.
    James Bond: Huh?
    Harold Strutter: White face in Harlem. Good thinkin' Bond. Let's get outta here.


    Parent
    It is very curious (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 08:31:59 AM EST
    Everything about it.  More so by the day.  

    The timing most of all.

    So far it has only hurt Trump and the republicans by among other things pushing the "caravan" and everything else right out of the news while early voting is happening.

    Parent

    Latest from Agent Orange (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:18:22 AM EST
    Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this "Bomb" stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows - news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!


    Parent
    Response (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:25:40 AM EST

    Barack Obama
    @ThePresObama
    ·
    2m
    Replying to
    @realDonaldTrump
    What an inconvenience for you. I'm sorry your base is trying to kill me and my family

    the other responses are worth the time

    Parent

    I orignially thought it might be Russians (none / 0) (#44)
    by CST on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:46:01 PM EST
    But then I figured that if they were involved, at least one of the bombs probably would've gone off.  They are a lot more competent at this kind of thing.

    Parent
    Nope, not a false flag operation (none / 0) (#55)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:17:32 PM EST
    Interesting howt that idea was ricocheting around the conservative world so fast and universally.

    Parent
    When Congressman Scalise (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:30:19 PM EST
    was shot, the Dems simply condemned it, and did not say it was a false flag GOP operation and scurry around peddling conspiracy theories.

    Parent
    That the bombs didn't explode is irrelevant. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:54:42 PM EST
    ragebot: "From what I have seen who ever built the pipe bombs used a design that almost assured they would not explode.  I can't find anything about the how the timing was set to ignite the explosive but give how the USPS works and no one could know when the device would be in the hands of the target."

    It was an act of terror nonetheless, which was clearly meant to send a chilling message. (And with all due respect, you're hardly an explosives expert, even if you do emulate those who play one on TV.)

    And as long as you're being reminded of Oscar-winning movies, I would note that it wasn't Don Vito Corleone's intent to physically harm movie producer Jack Woltz in "The Godfather," either. But he had certainly made Woltz an offer he couldn't refuse, when Woltz discovered his beloved racehorse Khartoum's head in bed next to him one morning.

    This isn't a case of no harm, no foul.

    Parent

    Based on what (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:00:06 PM EST
    The FBI director said about them exploding if they are shaken its kind of a miracle none exploded.

    It's not too late.

    Parent

    The Miami newspapers (none / 0) (#130)
    by fishcamp on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    are saying the bombs had firecracker powder in them.  Not very scary bombs, but as Donald says it's the intent.

    Parent
    A six inch piece of PVC (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 01:31:42 PM EST
    Full of broken glass and "fire cracker powder" might not kill you but I don't think it would be a pleasant experience.

    Parent
    All I'm saying is that ... (none / 0) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 03:56:41 AM EST
    ... this is not a case of "no harm, no foul" as some in the media have intimated by questioning whether Cesar Sayoc actually intended to physically harm people, given the crude IEDs he manufactured.

    I was explaining to ragebot that Sayoc's actions constitute a serial terrorist act nonetheless, regardless of the fact that the IEDs never exploded. That he failed to master the bomb-making technology is beside the point although we can be thankful for that. Given all the trouble Sayoc went through to do this, we must assume that he intended to cause his targets harm. Therefore, he ought to be charged with multiple counts of attempted homicide.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Course we know two more (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 08:32:50 AM EST
    Booker and Clapper

    And Kamala Harris (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:56:41 PM EST
    Makes 13.  Seems an odd number.  Probably more

    Parent
    You can also likely add to that list ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:58:33 PM EST
    ... Sen. Kamala Harris and Silicon Valley billionaire Tom Steyer. Police today intercepted two suspicious packages intended for them, as well.

    Parent
    CNN (none / 0) (#12)
    by FlJoe on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:57:07 AM EST
    reporting that a suspect has been arrested.

    2:30 (none / 0) (#14)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:59:56 AM EST
    presser by DOJ about the arrest.

    Parent
    Any update on the (none / 0) (#15)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:06:19 AM EST
    white van the talking heads on TV are showing.  Seems like the suspect was from Plantation from what I am hearing.


    Parent
    Covered with (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:12:11 AM EST
    Pictures of Trump and the presidential seal etc


    Parent
    It appears (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:20:15 AM EST
    Occam and his razor win again

    Parent
    White male in 50s (none / 0) (#16)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:11:58 AM EST
    Florida resident who relocated from New York with prior arrests for threats.

    Over-consumption... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM EST
    of certain media can most certainly cause rage imo.  

    Everybody knows a retired person whose personality has changed rapidly for the worse since they have free time to watch Fox News and spread trash on facebook and twitter all day. Or the angry young wanna-be radical person a la Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" who is glued to their smart-phone reading clickbait article after clickbait article till they are unrecognizable from their former happy-go-lucky selves. Am I right?

    Not to say these phenomenons are all the media's fault...the consumer and their perceptions have blame to bear, as well as how the consumption of news has changed in the information age.  How the definition of news has changed.  Politics and media become more like professional wrestling every day.  Heroes and villains, good and evil, black and white...no reason, no nuance, no acknowledgement of complexities.

    Bread and (none / 0) (#20)
    by ragebot on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:21:19 AM EST
    Name (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:53:31 AM EST
    Meet (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:55:21 AM EST
    Well that looks about right. (none / 0) (#23)
    by desertswine on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:59:20 AM EST
    I await the apology (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:04:37 AM EST
    From Rush

    Parent
    Open your eyes... (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:14:00 AM EST
    any false-flag operation is surely going to include the pastey white patsy with a white pedophile van plastered with MAGA stickers...now we know the deep state was behind it for sure!

    Parent
    Seems they think (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:17:30 AM EST
    There are "others"

    Parent
    Yeah, Cap'n! Open your eyes! (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:09:54 PM EST
    Why, the arrest of a vagrant right-wing soul and perpetually unsuccessful criminal, who lived at his mother's house and somehow finally found purpose in life by answering the siren call of the Trump campaign, that has all the hallmarks of a Deep State operation funded by George Soros on behalf of Demonrats.

    Wake up and sniff the model airplane glue, man!

    Parent

    The denizens of planet wingnut (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:25:09 PM EST
    got busy and have already altered his voter registration form to indicate he's a registered Democrat and posted it on Twitter.

    So for the next few days, all the talk radio jackdaws around the country will be "just asking the question" if he's a Trump supporter, why is his voter registration form marked Democrat?

    Parent

    Too late (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:43:40 PM EST
    CNN has video of him at a MAGA rally wearing the requisite MAGA hat. Also there are pictures of him at the rallies.

    Parent
    His republican (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:46:56 PM EST
    Voter registration was some of the first news

    Parent
    Yes but is it (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:56:34 PM EST
    the Real voter registration form? I'm just asking questions here. The American people have the right to know!

    And now this from the makers of Gold Bond Powder..

    Parent

    I'm really looking forward (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:02:41 PM EST
    To seeing hi res unedited images of those van Windows.

    I've stopped the DVR and looked as close as I could.  It's pretty amazing.

    They are a riot of conspiratorial insanity.  Sane republicans, democrats, Michael Moore, Rachel, that Hogg kid, Jesus, lots of Jesus.

    Parent

    There's a guy on Twitter who ... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:27:22 PM EST
    ... apparently was waiting at a traffic signal with this guy just the other day, and he took photos of the van because he thought it looked really weird. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are in two of the van decals, sited in crosshairs.

    Parent
    I wondered if that 3:00 a.m. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:32:36 AM EST
    Trump tweet wasn't about the bomber they were about to take down being a yuuuuge Trump supporter.

    And they are

    Parent

    The coverage (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:35:36 AM EST
    Is going to be all about that support.

    Trump will freak out.

    Parent

    Peace love and harmony among Americans? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:40:14 AM EST
    Who is this guy?

    Parent
    Wasn't that surreal? (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:41:24 AM EST
    Dana Bash said that is teleprompter Trump (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:59:55 AM EST
    There's rally Trump
    Twitter Trump
    And teleprompter Trump

    Do they hear themselves? Sane Presidents don't have multiple personalities. It is hard enough for a President with one operational basic personality.

    Parent

    In the room (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:13:26 PM EST
    People were yelling CNN sucks and TAKE NEWS and yelling about Soros and Clinton and others.

    Parent
    My God (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:14:45 PM EST
    He's going to flip before sundown.

    Parent
    Just heard he (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:18:54 PM EST
    Is the sole follower of a FB page called KILL GEORGE SOROS.

    I am currently considering creating a FB page called KILL FACEBOOK

    Parent

    Don't buy a van (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:23:02 PM EST
    The media (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:40:59 AM EST
    Needs to start calling him the MAGAbomber

    Just to make his head explode

    Parent

    My favorite tweet so far (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM EST
    I feel like I ate Thanksgiving with that van.

    Parent
    No kidding (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:58:24 AM EST
    If they asked about that van around here the answer would be "which one?"

    Parent
    Oh yeah (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:03:21 PM EST
    You live in that car show

    Rebel flags flying out of the beds of their trucks phucks

    Parent

    Van decals (none / 0) (#46)
    by smott on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:50:57 PM EST
    Now being blurred out by Fox.

    Parent
    That's actually funny (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:30:37 PM EST
    God (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:20:24 AM EST
    To be a fly on the wall in the "presidents" briefing before his remarks.

    Cesar into (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 11:57:07 AM EST
    it's fertile ground.  Frequent threats on social media and previous relation to bombs.

    Oh, and he liked ISIS because they kill gays.  Just the guy next door.

    A real winner, this Cesar Sayoc :-/ ! (none / 0) (#42)
    by vml68 on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:33:51 PM EST
    The Florida man has a significant criminal history and was previously charged with making a bomb threat in 2002. The ruling in that case was not immediately clear on Friday. Sayoc was also convicted of theft in 2014 and 2013, and battery in 2013, public records show. In 2012, he filed for bankruptcy, and declared in court filings that he lived with his mother.

    Explains the attraction to Tr*mp!

    Parent

    If you want to lose sleep (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:43:59 PM EST
    Consider how many people that could describe.

    Trump is the Norman Bates president

    Parent

    His Twitter feed (none / 0) (#45)
    by smott on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:46:09 PM EST
    Was basically indistinguishable from millions of other MAGAts.

    Trump and Fox are radicalizing domestic terrorists daily.

    Parent

    Very true (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:55:29 PM EST
    though Homeland Security stated that conservative terrorism was a problem back in 2009 when Obama took office. Trump just legitimized it and put it on steroids.

    Parent
    When will Trump (none / 0) (#48)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    issue a pardon for the MAGABomber?   Not a body slam, but anyone who puts terror into the hearts of Democrats is a MAGAt type of guy.  Maybe he is a little off, living in his mother's basement and giving her a slap around now and then, but he does hate all the people Trump hates.

    Parent
    If he wants to give this one (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:32:32 PM EST
    The medal of freedom he might get some agreement from democrats

    Parent
    What caravan? (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 03:33:32 PM EST
    Somebody said (none / 0) (#52)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 02:00:56 PM EST
    the comments section at Breitbart is reading more-and-more like Eric Harris's diary entries.

    Lets make America dangerously psychotic again.

    Parent

    Sounds like he is (none / 0) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    economically anxious.  Just the kind of Trump supporter the media would seek out in his favorite diner to see what makes him tick.

    Parent
    Sounds like he is (none / 0) (#50)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 01:06:50 PM EST
    economically anxious.  Just the kind of Trump supporter the media would seek out in his favorite diner to see what makes him tick.

    Parent
    Another benighted resident of (none / 0) (#51)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 01:57:07 PM EST
    The Sunshine State who believes mass shootings are false flags and that David Hogg never attended Parkland HS -- if there even Is a Parkland HS, and not just a Soros-funded Potemkin Village set up as part of an all-out assault on our 2nd Amendment rights..

    Nice job, wingnut noise machine.


    I know in Germany (none / 0) (#53)
    by smott on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 02:35:10 PM EST
    They have much tighter restrictions on speech/hate speech.

    Trump's speech seems obviously to be inciting violence. Would it be legal in say Germany? Just wondering if we have any legal eagles who know more about that.

    I know we can't yell Fire in a crowded building and so on. But today a President or any public figure has such a gigantic megaphone, does that perhaps place even more limits on what they might say?
    Or is any public sphere  the same as another? Because it doesn't seem so.

    ... was arrested and charged under France's hate speech law after her incendiary comments about Muslims in Lyon back in 2010. She was ultimately acquitted by a Paris Court of Appeals in Dec. 2015.

    My elder sister, who lives in Provence, considers Ms. Le Pen a very sinister individual because she soft-pedals the more overt and vitriolic racism of her father, the noted French right-wing nationalist and political provocateur Jean-Marie Le Pen, in a seductive manner that's sounds superficially reasonable. She said her brother-and sister-in-law both voted for her.

    These are scary times.

    Parent

    No hate speech exception to 1A (none / 0) (#149)
    by ragebot on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 07:58:14 AM EST
    See Matal v Tam.

    A law found to discriminate based on viewpoint is an "egregious form of content discrimination," which is "presumptively unconstitutional." ... A law that can be directed against speech found offensive to some portion of the public can be turned against minority and dissenting views to the detriment of all. The First Amendment does not entrust that power to the government's benevolence. Instead, our reliance must be on the substantial safeguards of free and open discussion in a democratic society.

    Parent

    Ok wait (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:06:43 PM EST
    MSNBC just said a relative said he was involved with male str!ppers.  And he loved ISIS because they kill gays.

    Peeling back this psychic onion will be interesting

    Correction (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:17:19 PM EST
    WAS a male str!pper.

    Hugh Hewett is on with Chuch Terd and he does not look well.

    Parent

    NBC ought to make it a twofer, and can his sorry right-wing a$$ alongside Megyn Kelly's.

    Parent
    He has a Rat Tail (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 04:57:46 PM EST
    That alone should be a capital crime.

    Parent
    Hewitt's admiration/adoration (none / 0) (#75)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:02:15 PM EST
    of Reagan borders on a form of necrophilia.

    People like him are probably the reason Reagan had have a closed-casket.

    How much you want to bet (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:13:58 PM EST
    He tries to blame steroids?

    Trump supporters respond (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:48:21 PM EST
    To the MAGABomber

    watch this

    Bad link (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:53:50 PM EST
    Sorry

    Parent
    Fox has already moved on to (none / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:49:14 PM EST
    their breaking story about the Pennsylvania man who "threatened to put a bullet in Trump's head."

    Trump supporters respond (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 05:50:24 PM EST
    To the MAGABomber

    watch this

    Do you consider Frank Gaffney (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 06:19:36 PM EST
    a reputable Republican, Hugh?

    Do your comrades-in-arms in conservative talk radio count?

    Parent

    The paranoid style of the right (none / 0) (#82)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 06:32:08 PM EST
    marches on.

    I see that Limbaugh is suggesting to his crotchety listeners that someone may have doctored the bomber's van because all the stickers look "too new."

    IMO (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 06:54:00 PM EST
    What we need to begin understanding is that Rush and the others are not really trying to convince anyone of anything.  Their job is to provide talking points.

    I know as many Trump supporters as anyone here and I have come to believe the lies, from Trump, from Rush, from FOX news do not fool them.  Or are they intended to.  Trump supporters, those people standing behind him know they are lies.  They know what the goal is.  They hate all the same people and all the lies are just a means to an end.

    They are not fooled.  They are complicit.  We are past the time to try to blame all this on Trump.  It's time to start blaming his supporters.  He is speaking for them.  He knows this.  They know this.  

    Parent

    I'm talking about (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 06:55:21 PM EST
    Family members.  

    Parent
    One problem is (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:23:54 PM EST
    there are just enough unstable, congnitively deficient people who actually Do believe the conspiracy theories and the like that we see the Sandy Hook families being harassed and the QAnon believers, like the guy with the homemade armored truck who blocked traffic on the Hoover Dam.

    Parent
    I think that a small (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:33:03 PM EST
    Percentage of Trump supporters.  95% are totally in on the joke.

    This guy, for example.  From all reports, if you have not seen the CNN interview with his lesbian former boss you should, he was intelligent and highly functional. He was not fooled.  He hates blacks, Jews and gays.  Trump was his guy for clear and understandable reasons.

    It is sort of funny he claims to be both white supremacist and native American.  FTR the Seminole tribe which he claims to be part of says he is not and has never been.

    Parent

    Here's the interview (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 08:01:03 PM EST
    Better (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 08:34:25 PM EST
    Highly functional (none / 0) (#96)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:10:52 PM EST
    aside from the odd antisocial behavior like sending bombs to prominent people through the mail with a high probabability of being caught.

    People can be highly functional in one area of their lives, the way someone like Stephen Pollack was, while at the same time harboring psychopathic tendencies.

    Parent

    A troublingly high % of Americans (none / 0) (#97)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:26:14 PM EST
    believe in things like the Tribulation and the Rapture and dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. Certainly way more than 5%. Do these folks suddenly become exemplars of rationality and critical thinking when they hear stories about false flags and crisis actors and Soros and the NWO? Doubtful.

    Parent
    All I can tell you (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:45:20 PM EST
    Is that, for example, I have family members who talked constantly about the "fact" that Obama was a Kenyan born Manchurian candidate who was out to destroy America and they knew, KNEW, it was bullsh!t.  

    They knew it.

    They hated him because he was black and he was president

    They knew as well as I did it was BS but it was useful to bringing him down.

    And btw these same people believe in the rapture and Jesus riding dinosaurs.

    Are there people who actually believe the conspiracy theories?  Sure.  If you provided irrefutable proof it was BS would it matter?  No, it would not.

    They "believe" it because it suites their purposes and prejudices

    Parent

    Did you watch (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:52:59 PM EST
    The video of Trump supporters talking about the MAGABomber?

    You think that old cracker who said "wa, Hillary prolly mailed it to her sa-uf" actually believed that?

    Or that stupid woman who said she heard it was a Bernie supporter?

    Pffft

    I know these people better than you.

    Parent

    Now, the third guy (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 09:58:12 PM EST
    The one in the poncho, he might be a true believer.

    Parent
    I think you're (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:41:00 PM EST
    imputing a degree of calculation and self-awareness to these people that I remain unconvinced they possess.

    Parent
    I am not communicating well (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 10:53:54 PM EST
    I you think I am "imputing .. calculation and self-awareness" to them.

    Parent
    According to the family lawyer, Sayoc's mother (none / 0) (#103)
    by vml68 on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 04:18:01 AM EST
    is Italian and his father is Filipino. And, he is a white supremacist?
    Looks like there are a whole lot of wires crossed in there.

    Parent
    Ya (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 07:39:55 AM EST
    If he is a Seminole he's a Seminole with a perm

    Parent
    You know what else is interesting (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 08:07:12 AM EST
    About his hair, if you notice he is balding in one of the mug shots

    But in the video of him leaving court he again has what looks like stubble on the top of his head.

    But if you look closely you can see the stubble on top does not exactly match the real stubble on the sides.  So clearly he is putting something on his head that just looks like stubble.

    I have never heard of this mystery substance or process.

    Has anyone else?

    Parent

    Ok then (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 08:09:49 AM EST
    Google and learn

    how to make fake stubble

    Parent

    Give me your tired (none / 0) (#113)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 09:55:14 AM EST
    your poor..your high-functioning crackpots..

    I'm starting to think they should update that sonnet inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.

    Parent

    Seriously tho (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 10:04:45 AM EST
    If you have not, watch the full interview with his former boss linked above.

    It starts a little weird.  You think, this woman is nuts.  But if you keep listening she starts making a lot of sense.

    As far as why would she allow him to talk to her that way I think you need to be a gay person of her, or my, age.  We have grown up with that stuff and depending on where you live deal with it on a daily basis.  You simple think nothing of hearing a good natured "you are going to burn in bell"

    But the way she describes him is very interesting.

    I like her.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#105)
    by FlJoe on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 07:49:46 AM EST
    agree up to a point, I think there is a small percentage of true believers who buy everything lock stock and barrel. However I think the rest lie on a spectrum of belief with even his high info supporters buying into a portion of it.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 08:01:25 AM EST
    I know a couple of higher info people.  Sayoc seems relatively high info.  I think maybe they sometimes tell themselves they actually believe it because they understand that if they do not they are revealed for the craven racist haters they really are.
    Others like Sayoc are fine with being craven racist haters.

    I'm not convinced they actually believe it.

    Parent

    In (none / 0) (#109)
    by FlJoe on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 08:49:46 AM EST
    the end I find it hard to suss out what is going on inside their minds of any of tRump supporter, they truly live in a different reality.

     tRump provides a smorgasbord of realities that keeps the racists, the rich and the ridiculously religious all happy. They gorge themselves on the lies they love and disregard the rest.

     

    Parent

    Which kind of makes the (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 09:11:19 AM EST
    Point I was trying to make above.

    We cant continue to just blame the leader of the cult.  There would be no leader if there was not a following.  And it's not small or insignificant.  It's literally very close to half the country.

    IMO we have to stop trying to "win them over".  They will not be won over.  They are not innocents being manipulated.  They are the problem.  They have been a cult looking for a leader for decades.

    We need to start calling them out and, excuse my Trumpiness, seeing them for the enemies they are.

    Trump is not the sickness.  He is a symptom.  The sickness is deeply rooted in our country and culture and until we start seeing it for what, and who, it is we going to lose.

    My opinion, as they say.

    Parent

    You are absolutely correct (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:38:00 AM EST
    Correction (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 09:44:30 AM EST
    I do not think they are truly almost half the country.  They are almost half the registered voters.  Which itself is about half the country.

    This is why I said from the beginning the approach being taken by Stacy Abrams and Andrew Gillum will not only work it's very likely the only choice we have.

    We have to, HAVE TO, give those people something to vote for besides republican lite.

    Parent

    I surrender the soap box (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 09:45:33 AM EST
    Well, (none / 0) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 10:02:00 AM EST
    it looks like it is going to work for Gillum. However with the SOS running for governor here in GA I'm unsure this is going work here with him messing with voter registration.

    Parent
    I still believe it will (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 10:08:19 AM EST
    And maybe even for Beto.

    Another correction.  I was just looking at numbers and registration surged a lot for Obama.

    There is still 20-30 million eligible unregistered.

    And very likely most of those who registered for Obama have not voted since.

    Parent

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 10:45:52 AM EST
    I would agree. It seems that there is a big chunk of voters that have not voted in 10 years. However our SOS has been purging those voters. If Abrams wins we really need a law that says if you are SOS running for governor or any other statewide office you need to resign your office to avoid any conflicts like are going on now.

    Parent
    FTR (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:12:09 PM EST
    About the decals

    They look to me like those things you can have made, with any image you want, that you can stick on the Windows that have tiny holes so you can see out but no one can see in.  

    They are very common around here.  

    In other words they probably were not just a bunch of stickers but large professionally made sheets that cover the whole window

    I have no proof of this but that's what it looked like to me.

    like this

    Parent

    Look at the way (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:17:46 PM EST
    Upsetting things (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:32:27 PM EST
    Happen in this van hahaha

    Parent
    Don't come knockin (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:33:43 PM EST
    You never know who (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:35:03 PM EST
    Is going to fall out of the back of this van :)

    Parent
    And he flipped at the rally (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:36:17 PM EST
    Crooked Hillary

    Parent
    Another 24 hours of this coverage (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 26, 2018 at 07:40:24 PM EST
    And he will be threatening to pardon him.

    Parent
    OMG (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 10:46:49 AM EST
    a shooting at synagogue in Philly. I hope and pray that Peter G. is okay. I am willing to bet this is another violent act by a magat.

    I think it's Pittsburgh (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 10:54:14 AM EST
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:18:56 AM EST
    for the correction. I guess I was just too upset to notice that it was Pittsburgh instead of Philly.

    Parent
    It's in Pittsburgh (none / 0) (#120)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:07:23 AM EST
    Tree of Life synagogue, a couple blocks from my house where I grew up. I likely know some of the families that go there.

    Via a friend w police contacts, (not yet confirmed but) white male 46, Rob Bauer. Surrendered in the synagogue. Screaming "all the Jews must die!"
    Explosive device found.
    8 dead. 3 LEOs with non life-threatening injuries.

    Very sad.

    Parent

    On Shabbat morning (none / 0) (#121)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:08:11 AM EST
    There are often bar/bat mitvahs scheduled. Hope no kids involved.

    Parent
    Bris at the synagogue (none / 0) (#123)
    by caseyOR on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:22:24 AM EST
    this morning. My guess is lots of family including children were present.

    Parent
    I guess we'll see (none / 0) (#124)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:28:59 AM EST
    Walked by Tree of Life every morning going to school. Blah.

    Trump has a lot to answer for, not just here on Earth.

    Parent

    Correction Robert BOWERS (none / 0) (#126)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:49:34 AM EST
    Anti-Semitic stuff on Social media.

    Parent
    Sweet baby Jesus (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:56:54 AM EST
    Trump just said if they had guns inside the temple it would have ended differently.

    Parent
    TPM (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 11:59:28 AM EST
    Ironically Bowers seems to think (none / 0) (#129)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 12:05:25 PM EST
    That Trump is not nationalist/supremacist ENOUGH.

    Bowers is a full on alt-right nut case, but has disdain for Trump not unlike some of the Charlottesville leaders who criticized Trump for giving his daughter to a Jew.

    What a world.

    Parent

    Not even a decent (none / 0) (#131)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 12:41:49 PM EST
    respectful moment of silence before he goes back to s*cking off the NRA.

    Parent
    I am so sorry smott (none / 0) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 02:25:46 PM EST
    Trying to figure out the words to send to a new friend in our neighborhood that this is going to deeply affect. I don't know what to say :(

    Parent
    Thanks MT (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 02:36:51 PM EST

    Send whatever words you can that just come from your heart! Those are never wrong.

    Anyway for me, it was a few blocks from where I grew up in Squirrel Hill. My Dad sold the house and moved in 2003, and I'm crosstown now.

    But that area still feels like home. Still waiting to see names of victims and if I knew any of them. Even if so, it was a couple decades ago that I likely had contact with any....but still.

    Meanwhile,  looks like the count is up to 11 now.

    Trump blaming the temple for not having armed guards. He's just grotesque at this point.
    Truly monstrous.

    I hope this election will be fair enough to make a difference.

    Vote, peeps.

    Parent

    Obama says (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by leap on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 03:22:15 PM EST
    to vote. The way he says things. Made me cry.

    Parent
    My deepest fear (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 03:40:04 PM EST
    Is that we have already had our last real election.
    This one will be a sham.

    As reports frommTexas support....

    Parent

    I cried too (none / 0) (#141)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 04:04:31 PM EST
    I remembered when we all used to rate his speeches here until the sanity became mundane. I would give anything for an Obama get together to rule my day now.

    I'd settle for a beer summit being this year's Christmas!

    Parent

    And CHECK YOUR BALLOTS (none / 0) (#136)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 02:42:06 PM EST
    !!

    Parent
    Right next to my old campus (none / 0) (#160)
    by CST on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 08:34:14 AM EST
    It's a really nice neighborhood.

    Mr Rogers old neighborhood.

    Parent

    Guarantee that (none / 0) (#132)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 01:06:29 PM EST
    Trumpsters will glom onto Bowers' disdain for Trump (for not exterminating Jews) faster than you can say Tiny Hands.

    "He's Anti-Trump, ergo, he's Pro-Dem! Check mate libtards! "


    It's a strange thing (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 03:35:36 PM EST
    It sort of an abstract way I can, I don't want to say understand but, comprehend why a troubled person might hate (I will start with) gays or blacks or women or democrats or republicans or taxidermists or girl scouts.

    At least there is a logical thing to hate.  As if there could be such a thing.

    I really never understood why people hate Jews

    I really don't get it.  Could be because I am entirely nonreligious.  But unlike this guy apparently, lots of Jew hatred seems to have nothing to do with religion.

    I just don't get it.

    Parent

    There's decades of rhetoric (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by smott on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 04:01:50 PM EST
    Painting Jews as sub-human. An "infestation" that must be eradicated, making them both something to kill as well as something not even human, insect-like. Which makes killing easier.

    The Nazi term "infestation" is very calculated in that respect.

    Plus Jews are extremely conscious of their tribe - there is an enormously strong sense of community which i absorbed growing up in a deeply Jewish neighborhood, and maybe more so because so many were Holocaust survivors.

    That lets outsiders know that they are viewed as outsiders. Or Strangers, as is the term. Which, I guess, probably doesn't help.

    I remember my best little pal when I was 4-5, Jonathan , we just got on so well,played together every day. His family was VERY orthodox. NO work on Shabbat (Saturday). My older brother would go over and turn on the lights for Jonathan's Dad Samuel on Saturdays, because No Work meant not even turning on the lights! Sam would read Torah on the porch all day.

    Jonathan had a Grandma (Bubbe) who lived nearby, I mostly remember her orthopedic shoes, and her tattoo on her forearm, because she had escaped the camps. Only knew her as  Bubbe.

    One of the first times I saw an adult cry was in 5th grade when my classmate Esther Sklinski brought in her own Bubbe to talk about escaping the camps and being hidden in an Underground Railroad getting her out of Poland. I thought it was all an exciting tale until I realized Mrs. Sklinski was sitting in front of our class of 10-yr olds, weeping.

    Anyway Jonathan and his family went back to Jerusalem in the late 60's and I remember missing him so much. In the early 70's his brother Mike, who was a Mets fan and taught me to throw a baseball against the garage door, was teaching a class at University, and Palestinian terrorists came in and killed a bunch of teachers and students, including Mike. I think he was about 20.

    Anyway, my old neighborhood in Squirrel Hill has a lot of stories like that.

    And it's Saturday, so as we say in Sq Hill - Shabbat Shalom. Good Sabbath, friends.

    Parent

    After I posted that comment (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 04:13:01 PM EST
    I did the "information for dummies" thing and googled 'why do people hate Jews'.

    I recommend it for the uninitiated

    Parent

    WaPo (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 04:18:29 PM EST
    The rabbis of the Talmud saw it in the very name of the mountain on which the Ten Commandments were given. "Sinai" in Hebrew is similar to the word "sinah" -- hatred. It was the Jews' acceptance of a higher law of morality and ethics that was responsible for the world's enmity.

    link

    Parent

    You might've noticed (none / 0) (#144)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 05:40:12 PM EST
    that besides abortion and homosexuality, a lot of Christians, for all their talk about "values," don't like to delve too deeply into ethical discussions.

    Hence the fundamentalists denunciation of the emphasis on "works" and their reiteration that people are "saved by faith, not works."

    I remember Jung talking about a blond beast in Europe that was only Christian on the surface that blamed the Jews for Christianity.

    Parent

    The notorious cartoon pamphleteer (none / 0) (#145)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 05:51:43 PM EST
    Jack Chick loved to end his little lurid passion plays with people who did good "works" being cast into cast into the Lake of Fire, because they never accepted the ultimate pagan blood sacrifice that removes all our sin.

    Parent
    Jack Chick (none / 0) (#157)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 06:05:45 AM EST
    was an anti-semite and an anti-catholic bigot. I had never heard of him until the 90's and one of my neighbors who attended the local baptist church  handed them out on Halloween.

    Parent
    Should (none / 0) (#158)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 06:06:27 AM EST
    be handed out his tracks on Halloween to trick or treaters.

    Parent
    What libtard dem (none / 0) (#146)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 27, 2018 at 06:44:21 PM EST
    quotes John 8:44 talking about "the children of Satan," followed by a reference to Jesus returning in the flesh?

    Parent
    Anyone know why (none / 0) (#150)
    by ragebot on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 12:17:19 PM EST
    the mail bomber and his case is being moved from Florida to NY.

    I am no expert on jurisdiction but it would seem like if the bombs were made and mailed from Florida that is where the crimes took place.  I know they were sent to NY, but they were sent to CA as well.

    It is a federal crime (none / 0) (#151)
    by MKS on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 12:54:30 PM EST
    So, jurisdiction is nationwide.

    And, I assume they will send it to where the experts are.

    So, no, no conspiracy here.

    Parent

    You are confusing jurisdiction with (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 12:10:57 AM EST
    venue.  Yes, federal criminal jurisdiction is nationwide, but the Sixth Amendment requires that a federal criminal case be brought within the (or at least within a) district "wherein the crime shall have been committed, said district to have been previously established by law." (quoting from memory; could be a little off). For crimes involving the use of the mail, the offense can be prosecuted in any district through which the mail travels. So the place of delivery is a lawful venue. My guess is that NY was chosen over FL because prosecutors believe that a jury selected in NY will overall be less likely to include anyone sympathetic to the defendant's perspective than a jury in FL.

    Parent
    Goodness. (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 06:09:52 AM EST
    Kind of sad that we have venues that would be more friendly to political assassins.

    Parent
    Given the amount of (none / 0) (#162)
    by ragebot on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 09:41:38 PM EST
    judge shopping that has goes on in the federal court system and the tiny number of political assassin cases they have to deal with I don't see that as a big problem.

    The fact of the matter is that the 9th Circuit is well known for having high profile cases reversed by the SC, along with the Federal Circuit; while the other circuits have fewer reversals.

    In great part this is due to high profile cases going to those two circuits due to judge shopping.

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    Which is why I mentioned (none / 0) (#161)
    by ragebot on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 09:25:47 PM EST
    TM and his case being moved from OK City to Denver because finding an impartial jury was suppose to be easier in Denver than where the bomb exploded.

    Maybe Jeralyn could provide insight on why that venue was chosen and on the possibility of the first thing a good defense lawyer might do is get a change of venue from SDNY.  I don't remember Denver having any connection to the OK City bombing but I could be wrong.


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    Jeralyn will correct me if I'm wrong (none / 0) (#163)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 29, 2018 at 10:00:32 PM EST
    But I think the McVeigh indictment was brought in the federal court in Oklahoma City -- the very court that was targeted and where the crime was committed -- and then venue was transferred at the request of the defense to Denver. The right to proper venue, which focuses on where the jurors will come from, like almost any other constitutional right of the defendant, can be waived at his or her request. The court to which the case is then transferred need not be one in which venue could properly have been laid in the first place.

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    From what the (none / 0) (#164)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 12:06:41 AM EST
    talking heads are saying on TV in his first court appearance today Cesar Sayoc's lawyers are the same ones that have previously represented him, which I took to mean they were from Florida.

    In any case they said they would contest everything they could, including extradition.  I will be interested in seeing if they continue to be the lead counsel.

    Jamie Benjamin, one of three attorneys representing Sayoc, told NBC News that they plan to challenge every piece of evidence presented by the federal government in the case.

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    Sure, they will (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 10:10:19 AM EST
    They need to provide a competent defense, and making the Prosecution jump through all the hoops is one way to do that.

    Not sure there is anything earth shattering or surprising here.

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    I'm not a lawyer (none / 0) (#165)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 09:01:09 AM EST
    but I like to play one for Halloween.

    I don't think there is any extradition to contest in a federal case. You fight extradition when you are charged in one state, on state charges, then apprehended in another state.

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    From one federal district to another (none / 0) (#178)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 30, 2018 at 11:48:13 PM EST
    there is a procedure similar to extradition, called "removal."

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    Why do you think experts are in the (none / 0) (#152)
    by ragebot on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 01:08:30 PM EST
    Southern District of New York.

    Not to mention in the McVeigh case the Court granted a change of venue and ordered that the case be transferred from Oklahoma City to the U.S. District Court in Denver, Colorado, to be presided over by U.S. District Judge Richard Paul Matsch.

    I can not recall any suggestion that there were more experts in Denver than Oklahoma City.  In fact the reason from what I recall was that it would be easier to get an unbiased jury in Denver.

    In most high profile cases "experts" are flown in from all over the country.  It is also common for defense attorneys to request a change of venue.  

    Still looking for an answer to my question.

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    What are lookig for? (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by MKS on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 02:49:53 PM EST
    What is the conspiracy that you are pursuing?

    The bombs were sent to numerous places, so venue could be appropriate in a number of places.  And where the witnesses are located is an issue to be considered when looking at venue issues.  Not sure it matters here.

    The U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York was speaking at a one of the press conferences. The Southern District of New York may have particular expertise in terrorism.

    Again, why does this matter to you?


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    Why SD NY-- (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Coral on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 08:16:20 PM EST
    Because first bomb was found in Soros mail, and it went to SDNY as that's their jurisdiction--before bomber was ID'd

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    The MAGA bomber (none / 0) (#154)
    by KeysDan on Sun Oct 28, 2018 at 03:36:27 PM EST
    undertook the greatest political assassination plot since the assassination of President Lincoln, the attempt on Secretary of State William Seward, and plans to assassinate Vice President Andrew Johnson, and General Grant.

    There remain many significant matters to investigate, including the possibility of co-conspirators, the bomb factory and the sources and resources.

     The Southern District of New York does have considerable experience/expertise in terrorism, and with many of the targets in the NYC area (Clapper, Brennan, President Clinton, Secretary Clinton, George Soros, Robert DeNiro, Cory Booker (NJ), Joe Biden (DE)), CNN, the venue selected seems appropriate.   It may come to be that another venue in South Florida or DC will also be involved at a later date, based on investigation.

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    NYTimes has reported that (none / 0) (#186)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 31, 2018 at 05:55:49 PM EST
    the MAGA Assassin had a list of 100 targets. The campaign of Beto O'Rourke states that Beto received threats, but,so far, no bomb package.

     It is curious that there has been no further word on the suspicious and, apparently, identical package sent (and intercepted) on its way to CNN headquarters in Atlanta. Seemingly being investigated as slow mail, or an accomplice.  Hope we can learn more about this Trump fan and the assassination plot (e.g., bomb factory, conspirators, financing ) before the election.  

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