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Tuesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 04:07:16 PM EST
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TalkLeft was down today -- server issues. While we figure out what went wrong, here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Tuesday Open Thread | 210 comments (210 topical)
    Shut it down (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 04:21:54 PM EST
    ...Until we can figure out what the Hell is going on.

    Sent this LTE to the local paper today.

    We now hear calls from the print and broadcast media for the Democrats to "compromise" to get the government open.

    Any such statement is a tacit agreement that nothing Mr. Trump says can be depended on, but for some reason the Democratic Party is supposed to act as though he is an honest broker.  The so-called "emergency" at the border is the response to the fact that when the country voted overwhelmingly to put Democrats in charge, and the House is no longer a rubber-stamp.  Under Democratic leadership the House voted to open the government, with the same bill that had passed the Senate overwhelmingly.  Now we are told that Nancy Pelosi is somehow personally responsible for Mitch McConnell's refusal to bring that measure to the floor for a vote.

    For over a year we heard that Mexico was going to pay for a wall.  Then for two years of Republican control of Congress, we heard nothing about the promised wall.  Recently, Mr. Trump said in unequivocal terms that he would take the "mantle" for the shutdown, and that he would not blame Democrats. Yet the media seem to think Democrats should not accept definitive statements as... definitive statements.

    This leads to the immediate problem, that if Mr. Trump cannot be trusted to live up to his word on these issues, why continue to bargain in good faith?  If any agreement that is reached can be canceled by Trumpian fiat, he is already a dictator and does not need a legislature.

    It's easy to build a metaphorical wall, but a real wall requires budgeting, engineering, land acquisition, and years of expensive preparation.  Mr. Trump throws out a number that he says is the price, but with no supporting data.  And we are told by some in the media that this is a "plan" and that Democrats should "compromise."
    Yeah (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:12:36 PM EST
    If Trump gets his way the govt will be shut down bi-monthly for the next two years

    Parent
    I like your use of (none / 0) (#28)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:53:42 PM EST
    Mr.

    Parent
    NYT Style Book (none / 0) (#53)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:48:43 PM EST
    Every male subject is "Mr.," even the guy who chopped up his family.

    Same with the London Times.

    Parent

    I meant your use of that (none / 0) (#71)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:00:53 AM EST
    instead of other salutations available. you did not refer him as president. I personally cannot put those two words together.

    Parent
    This thing with Deripaska is stunning (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:29:38 PM EST
    Really.  We have entered really scary territory here with 8 republican senators hailed on Russian state tv

    Deripaska and Allies Could Benefit From Sanctions Deal, Document Shows

    Sometimes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:22:28 PM EST
    it seems like they go out of their way to look guilty.

    Parent
    Apropos of nothing... (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:12:15 PM EST
    I happened to catch a few minutes of a game show that my parents were watching called 'Common Knowledge'.

    Question - 1) How many days in a fortnight? Lady answers 365.

    1. What metal is the US penny made from? Options to choose from Copper, Magnesium, Iron.  Man picks Magnesium.

    2. What branch of government do the Senate and House fall under? Options - Executive, Judicial, Legislative. Lady passes on question because she does not know the answer.

    The ignorance on display might have been hilarious if it was not so d@mn depressing. I felt like crying.

    Watch Jeopardy instead.. (none / 0) (#35)
    by desertswine on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:51:19 PM EST
    the contestants are smarter but incredibly annoying.

    Parent
    I am not much of a tv watcher nowadays, (none / 0) (#168)
    by vml68 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:34:21 PM EST
    more of an internet junkie. I used to watch Jeopardy regularly until about 12 years ago.

    I happened to catch this particular show because my mom loves game shows and usually has it on.

    Parent

    My 98 y.o. Mother (none / 0) (#190)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 07:05:45 PM EST
    ...has some health problems, so I have been staying with her.

    She has a notebook where she keeps the answers that she (and now I) got right when no one on the show can.  Typically I get two to three a night and Mom gets one or two.

    Parent

    I've noticed the Christian fundies (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:01:56 PM EST
    and the Eretz Israel crowd have gone into overdrive recently pushing the idea online that G*d's "hand is upon Trump", and I have a feeling some variation of that sentiment is shared by Covington conservative Catholic types, because of the "saving babies" thing..

    It's enough to make one shudder imagining how ideas like this could possibly effect the psyche of someone as grandiose and narcissistic as Trump is, if he takes them at all seriously.

    "Bunched panties whining." LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:54:16 AM EST
    Geez, I'm glad I stayed out of that one. There's nothing more pitiful and pathetic than a white person of privilege with a persecution complex who thinks he belongs on the endangered species list.

    ;-D

    Mrs. Speaker to Bone Spurs (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 02:32:06 PM EST
    Stay out of my house. You are not welcome here during a government shutdown.

    I love it.

    I saw on (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:09:43 PM EST
    twitter someone said that Trump needs to learn you can't just walk into the house of representatives like you can walk in on Miss Teenage USA contestants getting dressed.

    Parent
    Pfft (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:37:14 PM EST
    "A great blotch.  A great great horrible mark."

    Hahaha

    Parent

    Andrea Mitchell (none / 0) (#109)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:54:12 PM EST
    and other talking heads were saying that Pelosi would never prevent cheeto from giving the State of the Union.

    You were right about the both-siderism creeping in to be an attack line against the Dems.

    But Pelosi holding firm. Hopefully, the blame will go back to where it is and onto the person who said he would be glad to shut down the government.
     

    Parent

    This counter offer from (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:16:33 PM EST
    Nancy to give him everything he wants but not letting him call it a wall is brilliant.

    The best part is watching Cheeto react to being told no.  Like a spoiled child who has never heard the word he is at a total loss how to react.

    Not just being told no but NO to two things central to his fragile manhood.  The wall and THE most presidential thing a president does.

    By a girl.  We may need more popcorn.


    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:23:22 PM EST
    it is brilliant. She's going to give him 5.7 billion for border security but he cannot build any edifice with the money. So he can get the money but he still does not get "the wall". I actually am loving his wailing about "the wall". Especially when dealing with Trumpers. I tell them there's really nothing to discuss with regards to wall since he said Mexico was going to pay for it. I always say just get back to me when the check from Mexico clears the bank and then we can discuss the merits of a wall.

    And dingbat Lara Trump acting like federal workers are voluntarily giving up all their income "for the cause". I never knew not getting a paycheck was "a pain" like having a backache for an afternoon.

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:23:22 PM EST
    it is brilliant. She's going to give him 5.7 billion for border security but he cannot build any edifice with the money. So he can get the money but he still does not get "the wall". I actually am loving his wailing about "the wall". Especially when dealing with Trumpers. I tell them there's really nothing to discuss with regards to wall since he said Mexico was going to pay for it. I always say just get back to me when the check from Mexico clears the bank and then we can discuss the merits of a wall.

    And dingbat Lara Trump acting like federal workers are voluntarily giving up all their income "for the cause". I never knew not getting a paycheck was "a pain" like having a backache for an afternoon.

    Parent

    Interesting that there seems (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 08:52:24 AM EST
    Markedly less both-siderism from Morning Mica today.  

    I'm guessing they heard from viewers about yesterday's sh!tshow.

    MAybe someone can watch Mrs Greenspan so I don't have to.

    Parent

    I am really sick of hearing (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:36:50 PM EST
    Michael Cohen who spent his entire professional life threatening and intimidating people pi$$ and moan about being threatened and intimidated.

    And Lanny Davis should STFU

    Roger (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 05:22:45 AM EST
    Stone arrested! Per CNN.

    Seven (none / 0) (#200)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 05:31:24 AM EST
    counts, one obstruction, five false statements and one witness tampering.

    The filing appears to indicate a direct Trump campaign > Roger Stone > Wikileaks connection.

    Buckle up.

    Parent

    Where's Howdy? (none / 0) (#201)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 05:42:02 AM EST
    I think he said he was gonna do cartwheels if that happened.

    Whoa boy, I guess the whole shebang is going to start now with Corsi et. al. getting indicted and arrested.

    Parent

    Corsi (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 06:21:45 AM EST
    probably flipped, Rudy telegraphed it the other day, he is a small fish in any case. We might will see a series of plea deals from Corsi and other  Stone cronies in the coming days, but nothing that comes closer to tRump than Stone...for now.

    Stone allegedly was coordinating with senior campaign official, I'm guessing Junior, and he has probably told the same lies to congress so in due time he is next.

    Also I'm wondering about the theater of this morning's arrest. It was a sizable, swat-like, surprise raid yet CNN was there with cameras. Very over the top for a "white collar" crime. Someone is sending a message, I think the FBI "staged" this.

    Parent

    Michel Legrand, pianist and film (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by desertswine on Sat Jan 26, 2019 at 02:37:46 PM EST
    composer dies at 86.

    Michel Legrand and Stephan Grapelli.

    What is needed (1.67 / 3) (#3)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:01:17 PM EST
    to end the shutdown is a zero sum game.  A zero sum game is where if one side wins something the other side loses.  In the current situation both sides are convinced they are winning everything and losing nothing.

    The Dems are convinced they have nothing to lose letting it go on; they think it will only hurt Trump.

    Same thing for Trump, he thinks he has nothing to lose by letting it go on.  He keeps his base happy by not only fighting for the wall but also pokes a stick in the eye of less than 25% of federal workers who many of his supporters think are not essential.  (As an aside I am involved with an ADA complaint to DOJ; and am waiting for the shutdown to end for any progress.  For me it is what I call normal delays but I suspect my friend who simply wants normal ADA accommodations thinks differently).

    To make matters worse there is the possibility that federal programs like food stamps and federal rent subsidies will be impacted; something many Trump supporters think should be eliminated anyway.

    The real losers are folks with no power to do anything about it.  Sure they can say next election they will vote for someone else because of what happened to them.  But that is a couple of years away and a lot could happen before then.

    Trump is counting on the shutdown to be ignored or forgotten, not to mention the possibility that he will get another SC Justice on the court; things that will help retain his base.

    The Dems are betting that their base will be enraged not just by the shutdown but all the judges Trump will get confirmed but things he is sure to do to that will upset the Dems.  Not to mention the Mueller investigation outcome; no matter what happens there the Dems will be upset.

    This is more like a game of chicken than a zero sum game.  My guess is both the Dems, Trump, and Trump supporters will all be unhappy with the final result; a big car wreck that ends up in a flaming mess.

    Sounds like you (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:10:32 PM EST
    Are actually on Trumps payroll.  Zero sum game is his middle name.

    I said recently you said the stupidest thing you ever said.  You just topped it.

    Congratulations

    Parent

    A whole (5.00 / 6) (#23)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:41:06 PM EST
    bunch of bothsider drivel.

    Yeah it must be a zero sum game at the highest level. The Constitutionally mandated representative government must win. Government by tantrum, hostage taking and executive fiat must lose.

    Parent

    And by the way (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:54:32 PM EST
    Missing the entire point.

    Trump doesn't want a wall.  Neither do republicans.  If they did they had two years to fund one.

    Trump is not doing this for a wall.  The shutdown is the entire point.  It serves his purposes in several ways.  He owns the libs.  FBI agents are going to food banks.  The public is distracted from his legal problems. Etc.

    The problem is it's having other effects he did not expect since he has no idea what government actually does.

    To quote George Sanders, rageboy has a point.  An idiotic one but a point.  Someone is going to have to lose.  

    I'm betting there will be some kind of labor or legal action.  Pretty soon.  We are getting ready to miss a second paycheck.

    Soon.

    Parent

    The (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:25:03 PM EST
    point being Putin wants the destruction of our government, so far so good.

    Of course the Repugs don't want a wall, and I'm assuming that most of them don't want the destruction of our government(at least not by Putin's hands). WTF are they afraid of? Why not hand a loss to the President over the stupid wall, and this whole thing would be forgotten in a matter of weeks and ancient history by 2020.

    Parent

    I think Mitch thinks (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:34:47 PM EST
    This is how he protects his boys in 20.  As long as Trump is leading the idiot base around by the short hairs Yurtle the Turtle ain't gonna do squat.

    As far as the Russian thing I think that ship has sailed

    When you have republican senators being lauded on Russian state tv not much left two say.  I've said for months Trump was not the only republican with a dirty Russian money problem.

    Not sure what we do but win in 20.

    Parent

    That is what I don't get (none / 0) (#33)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:31:04 PM EST
    Presidents, even successful ones, do not win every political fight.   Just cut your losses and move on.

     Why the Republicans in the Senate still support this guy--on everything, even on easing sanctions on Russia--is beyond me.

    Parent

    The Standard Answer Is, (none / 0) (#36)
    by RickyJim on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:00:59 PM EST
    "I don't want to get primaried."


    Parent
    Thats it (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:13:59 PM EST
    This vote is total theater.  He is only putting it up because he knows it will fail but the slimy sh!theads can say they "voted to open the govt"

    Parent
    You missed (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:51:48 PM EST
    the damage to the economy.   5% growth lost for every month of shutdown.  So, Trump's great economy will crater.  Not even your Trumpites will be able to ignore it.

    And, this fetish over the Trumpists is absurd.  They represent a minority of a minority.  He won the General Election by 70k votes.   He has no margin of error.

    Enough of this worship of the Trump base.  Yuck!

    Parent

    What about the Democratic base? (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:16:26 PM EST
    They are holding firm behind Pelosi.  Why no interest in that?

    I think the New York Times should do a series of articles on how adamant the Dems are on this issue and how much they support Pelosi on this issue.

    Bottom Line:  To many of the Dems the "Wall" is  symbol like the Confederate flag.  Who wants to pay to have the Confederate flag planted on their front lawn? How much should we pay for that flag to be put on our lawn?  Try nada, zip, zilch.

    Parent

    I have new found (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:40:57 PM EST
    respect for Mrs. Speaker of the House Pelosi. The Democrats MUST stand their ground and not give in. Bone Spurs claimed the shutdown, run that on an endless loop. That, and Mexico will pay for the wall. If the Dems cave, they will wear the mantle of being weak for the next 20 years. (or least through 2020).

    I feel for workers not being paid. And Democrats have lots of empathy, but, we can't let that give in. I know that would be seen as the greater good, but sometimes you have to take a stand at the expense of others.

    My opinion is that this is now all on turtle neck McConnell. Pass the House bill, send it to Bone Spurs. If he won't sign it, McConnell can line up the votes to override.

    I say this, if the Democrats give in just to bring the workers back and give Bone Spurs his wall, I will register an independent and never support another Democratic candidate ever again. For any office. I'll vote Peace and Freedom, Libertarian, Green. I'll vote for Joe Walsh (the guitar one) and the Party Party Party. I will try to revive the Freak Power ticket. But, if the Democrats do a Schumer and just go along to get along, I will forever disavow the Democratic Party in the United States.

    Parent

    Little update (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:24:31 AM EST
    The entire 3 hour has been a non stop harangue of every democrat they can drag on the set.

    I will say I am very proud of the democrats.  They are fighting back.  Quoting new polls that say 70+ % of Uhmurka think the wall is a stupid idea not worth the shutdown.

    We have to support them.  I know I don't need to tell most people here that.

    Parent

    Good poll bad poll (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:32:44 AM EST
    55% of democrats say they should vote to fund the wall to open the govt.

    This is a CBS poll I think.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:28:11 AM EST
    I hope you are not tested.  But I begin to think you should be prepared to be.  The left is going to be under great pressure from the media.  

    It's already started

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:37:42 AM EST
    Not sure how that happened

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:36:59 AM EST
    I hope you are not tested.  But I begin to think you should be prepared to be.  The left is going to be under great pressure from the media.  

    It's already started.  I just listened to the whole idiotic argument from that famous demo rat Morning Mica and a couple of her liberal media wingman.

    "Of course it's difficult for democrats but blah blah Trump has to have his way and someone has to think about the children blah blah and it will have to be the democrats because it's what they do blah blah"

    To deeply troubled nods of approval around the table.

    Listen.  I get it.  I do.  But this is going to get bad.  People are dying from lack of medical treatment and running out of insulin.  I will be really pi$$ed if Nancy can't hold the party together.  But I'm never going to say what you said.   Because saying that IMO really is letting the republicans win.  The war not just a battle.

    Parent

    And I would add (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:42:50 AM EST
    This

    if the Democrats give in just to bring the workers back and give Bone Spurs his wall, I will register an independent and never support another Democratic candidate ever again. For any office.

    Is exactly what Mitch is playing for

    Parent

    One other thing. (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:20:12 AM EST
    And this comes from biker culture. And it's why I think the Democrats MUST take this stand.

    There is something in biker culture, especially with motorcycle clubs called a mud check. Patchholders, when coming across non-club member bikers, will do things, say things, to test your meddle. See what you are made of. See if you will stand your ground. It's called a "mud check." It can mean the difference between being treated with respect or being walked all over and disrespected.

    This current situation is a mud check. You gotta stand up.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:33:49 AM EST
    It is.  

    I would just say bikers don't have a hundred reporters chasing them everywhere screeching about why they are allowing people to go without chemo and insulin because of a measley 5 b.

    I've said he can't be allowed to win for exactly the reasons you say.

    I'm jus sayin

    Parent

    If that's what McConnell is looking for, (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:11:21 AM EST
    so be it. But I repeat, Bone Spurs will shout "WEAK, WEAK, WEAK" from the beginning of every one of his Nuremburg rallies to the end. And he will expect the Democratic party to pack it in everytime going forward. Because that is their reputation. And I am tired of that. Stand and fight. Just for once. Stand for something and stick to it. Yes, regardless of the consequences.

    I agree that this is not really about any GD wall. If the Dems had not taken the House, the CR would have been passed and there would be no shutdown. It would be business as usual. Bone Spurs picked this fight BECAUSE the Dems took the House. This is a dick waving contest. To see whose is bigger. In the end, it has to be Mrs. Pelosi or it will never end from Bone Spurs.

    Parent

    I don't disagree (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:18:10 AM EST
    With a single word of that.

    Just saying what I think is coming.  Nancy is good.  I'm not counting her out.

    But I really think at this point there are two plausible options, dems find a way to give him something he can call a win or a massive labor action brings the country to its knees.

    I am hoping and praying (figuratively) for the latter.

    Parent

    The latter (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 07:36:33 PM EST
    FLIGHT ATTENDANTS UNION PRESIDENT CALLS FOR LABOR MOVEMENT ACTIVISTS TO CONDUCT A GENERAL STRIKE TO END GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN
    Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants is calling on "conference activists from across the Labor Movement" to conduct a "general strike to end the government shutdown."



    Parent

    Now she is hitting Sherrod Brown (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:13:58 AM EST
    Really hard.  He is saying absolutely everything you would want him to say.

    And it, "yes yes we know about them but what are DEMOCRATS going to do to stop all this suffering"

    I'm tellin you this is coming.  It's been building on MSNBC for days.  One moron chasing democrats around demanding they  contribute their pay to charity.  Oddly no such demands to republicans I've  seen.

    This is going to get much worse.   And it's exactly what Trump and Mitch want.  The media doesn't even bother to press them on the suffering because they know they don't give a damn.  But it's the perfect democrat gotcha.

    Parent

    The Speaker (none / 0) (#92)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:49:14 AM EST
    has a difficult job, but she is up for it. While I was one to encourage newer leadership, I also, felt that Mrs Pelosi was just what was needed.  Savvy and experience is what is needed, as is now plain to see.  (Beto was one who supported Tim Ryan's failed attempt and Mouton was not able to do much better). And, she is bringing new leadership to Committees and to serve as spokespersons  (e.g. new progressives appointed to oversight: A. Ocasio-Cortez, Ro Khanna, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib, of m.f. infamy).

       She told the House Sergeant of Arms to cancel the walk-through that the WH oficials planned to take in preparation of the SOTU.  Yes, as he Captain says, there is pressure from the hapless media, but the polls bolster the Democrats.

    I don't think that the Democrats will go for the $5.7 billion for Trump's wall to end the Trump shut down.  After all, they know that the $5.7 billion does not build a wall, and that it is just a down payment on what is likely to be a $30 to $50 billion wall.  Actually, Pelosi is doing Trump a favor by not funding a wall.  If Trump did get the funds, his incompetence along with the eminent domain fights, would be his death knell, if something else did not get him first.

    Trump really wants the politics of it all to go forward.  He, or Stephen Miller, just came up with a sophomoric ditty:  "Build the Wall and Crime will Fall"....he wants this for his 2020 campaign. But, more likely it would be "Bring a ladder, and the wall doesn't matter,"  or "Get a shovel, and the wall is no trouble."  

    Parent

    Trump may be (none / 0) (#7)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:24:45 PM EST
    getting into hot water with his base, if what this nice lady from Florida said becomes more widespread:  "He is not hurting the people he needs to be."

    Parent
    That attitude (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by CST on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:45:31 PM EST
    Is what's wrong with this country right now.  Who on earth are the people he needs to be hurting?

    Parent
    Non-white, non-christian and (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:59:11 PM EST
    non-heterosexual. Bonus points if the person being hurt qualifies for any 2 of the above categories. Mega Bonus if it is a trifecta :-(!

    Parent
    It is some comfort (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:06:03 PM EST
    Some of those being hurt are those who think others should be hurt and not them.

    Parent
    See my post below (1.50 / 2) (#10)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:35:53 PM EST
    Any federal worker (both the less than 25% affected by the shut down and the other 75%+) can quit any time they want and get another better job.

    If you read the entire article you will find this quotation.

    Even people who are tremendously vulnerable themselves, like Crystal Minton, support Trump

    Like I posted Trump thinks his supporters will keep supporting him even if he extends the shutdown; and in this case he seems to be right.

    Parent

    Can quit anytime they want (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:48:00 PM EST
    and get a better job.

    Just like that. Abracadabra.

    What makes you so sure about that?

    Parent

    My point (none / 0) (#59)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:22:28 PM EST
    was working for the federal government was the best job they could ever hope for.  If they quit they would never be able to get a better job so they will stick it out knowing the shut down will end; even if it may take more time than they like.

    Parent
    Heh, dude (none / 0) (#30)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:09:44 PM EST
    the Federal Courts in California are about to run out o funds.

    Here is a notice that I, and the other members of the Central District Bar received via email on Friday:

    The United States District Court for the Central District of California will remain open during the partial government shutdown and can continue funded operations by using court fee balances and other "no-year" funds through January 25, 2019.

    The Court will continue to hear and decide cases without disruption, accept new filings and process them in a timely manner.  All proceedings and deadlines remain in effect as scheduled, unless otherwise advised.  The Court's Case Management/Electronic Case Files (CM/ECF) system will remain in operation for the electronic filing of documents with the court.

    Jury trials will continue as scheduled.  Jurors should report for duty as instructed.  Payments to jurors will be made as long as funds are available.  If funds are not available, jurors will continue to be paid; however, payments will be deferred until after the judiciary receives an appropriation from Congress.

    Payments to attorneys appointed under the Criminal Justice Act (CJA) to represent indigent criminal defendants were suspended starting December 24, 2018.  When appropriations become available, panel attorney payments will be made in full.  During this temporary suspension, judges will continue to appoint CJA panel attorneys for eligible defendants and authorize expert and other services as appropriate.

    If the shutdown were to continue past January 25, 2019, the Judiciary will operate under the terms of the Anti-Deficiency Act, which permits mission critical work.  This includes activities to support the exercise of the courts' constitutional powers under Article III, specifically the resolution of cases and related services.



    Parent
    Looks like (1.50 / 2) (#194)
    by ragebot on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:43:52 PM EST
    Chief Dancing with Refrigerators at best embellished his military service.  Was in the reserves for most of the time and while on active duty went UA three times and was confined to the brig.  Not to mention he had to have been busted since he was discharged as an E-1, the lowest rank in the military, with a less than honorable discharge.  Even if the only promotions he got were time in grade he should have been an E4 at least.  Lots more vids surfacing of him talking about Vietnam experiences and the 'recon ranger' term which is totally bogus.  One vid shows him saying when he returned to the US a hippie girl spit on him.  Maybe that was when he went UA and left the country.  Maybe he will pull an Sen. Warren and claim he is 1/1024 of a Marine.

    He also has an arrest record (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:11:14 PM EST
    From the 70s

    Minor possession of alcohol.  Unbelievable.

    Parent

    Link to (none / 0) (#196)
    by ragebot on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:16:45 PM EST
    his facebook page with a vid where he says his DD214 say he was 'in theater' in Vietnam.  Just past the 10 minute mark.

    Parent
    Problem is (1.00 / 6) (#9)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:30:27 PM EST
    federal workers can quit any time they want.  No one is forcing them to show up for work; they are going to work of their own volition.

    More to the point a lot of federal workers could not get a better job than the one they have so if they don't show up they will have to get a lesser job somewhere else.

    But the biggest problem with your post is it ignores the fact the congress has already passed stuff saying the workers that show up for work will get paid as soon as the shut down ends.  So it is not that they won't get paid; rather that there will be a delay in their pay.

    I would say your post wins the internet for the stupidest post of the day; buy you already said that about mine.  So I will just say you need to get up to speed on the facts before you post silly things.

    Or are you suggesting (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:45:46 PM EST
    Waiting in the parking lot of Home Depot hoping for day labor?

    Parent
    How is it remotely acceptable to expect people (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:52:06 PM EST
    to work and then say to them, 'no worries, you will get paid eventually'.
    How do you expect people who live paycheck to paycheck to pay their bills, buy groceries/gas, pay rent, pay for medicines, etc

    Parent
    Don't be so modest (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:36:17 PM EST
    You've clearly won your own award with this post.

    Problem is federal workers can quit any time they want.  No one is forcing them to show up for work; they are going to work of their own volition.

    Of course they are - just as you are when you go to work.  The difference being, you're not being forced to work for an IOU.

    More to the point a lot of federal workers could not get a better job than the one they have so if they don't show up they will have to get a lesser job somewhere else.

    "A lot of" them?  Heh, heh.  That's Trump's favorite tactic whenever he's just making $hit up.  Usually, it's "Many people ..." or "A lot of people", etc., etc.  But it's a sure sign that someone has absolutely no clue or facts to back up a specious argument their about to make.

    Hate to break it to you, but "a lot" of federal workers are highly educated and experienced and could earn more money in the private sector - sometimes much more.  Many choose government service and lower pay for lifestyle reasons or for job security/stability.  Others choose it because they believe in the mission of the important work they perform.  To suggest they should simply quit their jobs - often after having worked for years or decades at their profession - in order to deal with a situation caused by Trump's temper tantrum - is simply ridiculous... not to mention incredibly callous and ignorant.


    So I will just say you need to get up to speed on the facts before you post silly things.

    Physician, heal thyself.

    Parent

    If it would be so easy (1.00 / 2) (#58)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:16:44 PM EST
    for the federal workers to get a better higher paying job I don't see why they would have any problem; simply get another job and their problem would be solved.

    Parent
    I'm sure many would like to (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:47:51 PM EST
    At this point.  These people don't make a lot of money.  Like most everyone they live mostly paycheck to paycheck.  About half the population would have trouble covering a 500 dollar unexpected expense.  

    When this started they had every reason to think it would be resolved by now.  We are several days past the longest shutdown ever.

    Finding a new job is a major undertaking.  It takes preparation and every part of that costs money.

    Many of these people are now in a desperate place.  They have gone a month without pay.  Probably already borrowed money just to survive and you say 'why don't they just get another job'.

    The callousness of that is really just stunning.

    Parent

    Stunning, but (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:35:46 AM EST
    not atypical Republican insouciance.  A toss up between throwing paper towels and letting them eat cake.

    Parent
    I believe Wilbur Ross just told Ragebot to (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by vml68 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:47:49 PM EST
    hold his beer.

    The callousness of that is really just stunning.

    Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross says he doesn't "really quite understand why" federal workers who have missed paychecks due to the partial government shutdown don't just take out loans to cover the gap.

    And, I am sure Federal workers are now breathing a little easier knowing that their lost pay is not going to have too much of an effect on the GDP :-/

    "While I feel sorry for the individuals that have hardship cases, 800,000 workers, if they never got their pay -- which is not the case -- they will eventually get it -- but if they never got it, you're talking about a third of a percent on our GDP," Ross said. "So it's not like it's a gigantic number overall."

    Parent

    You obviously have no clue (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 02:48:48 PM EST
    about how the civil service system works.

    Another reason to not leave is the civil service retirement system. Yes. Federal civil service still has pension system. If you've been working for the federal government for 10+ years, you are walking away from major vesting in civil service retirement. It's not portable like a 401K. You leave, you're SOL.

    Just like leaving the military after 10 or 12 years. Not many do that. Once you've got that many years in, you invested. You have to make it to 20 to get your retirement.
     

    Parent

    I think (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:01:40 PM EST
    they have a clue---it's just that they all have that revelatory jacket that Melania wore that says: "I don't care, do you?".   It may be in the back of the closet, but they have one.

    Parent
    The fact that you "don't see" ... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 05:35:43 PM EST
    ... something isn't evidence ... or particularly surprising.

    Parent
    Harris Wofford, former (none / 0) (#2)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 04:33:48 PM EST
    US Senator(D.PA, )passed away, at age 93, on Martin L. King Day, a memorial he helped bring into existence.  Mr. Wofford served in the senate after the tragic death of Senator John Heinz, III.

     Mr. Wofford was a lawyer, author, professor, and president of State University of NY College at Old Westbury and Bryn Mawr.  A graduate of Yale, Yale Law and Howard University Law, he worked on the JFK campaign for president and became a special assistant in the Kennedy Administration, helping to create the Peace Corps, and was counsel to US Civil Rights Commission.  A life of great accomplishment, personally and for he country.  

    I had the great privilege to know Harris Wofford (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:00:48 PM EST
    from the time he was president of Bryn Mawr (and I was a student newspaper editor at BMC's brother school) through the time he was my U.S. Senator. A great (and humble) human being. I could go on about him, but won't just now. Read a full obit at WaPo or NYT.

    Parent
    Another question... (none / 0) (#12)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:43:18 PM EST
    Do the furloughed employees who haven't been called back get paid for the time that they've been home and not working?

    If everyone is going to get a paycheck for the whole time whether they worked or not during the shut down, what is the point of the shutdown?
    I am not advocating that they not get paid, just wondering what the point of a shutdown is?

    Many will not get paid (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 05:52:04 PM EST
    Even govt employees

    Then there is the thousands of people who work for contractors or subcontractors

    Parent

    They did a spot (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:03:16 PM EST
    At a restaurant in a national park.  Many employees.  None working because no one can get to the place.

    But sure, those workers who have gone one month with no paycheck and who had every reason to believe they could wait it out and are borrowing money to buy food can just find another job.

    I can only wish people who say stupid sh!t like that were put in the same position.

    Parent

    "Furlough" is laid off a day at a time (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:44:26 PM EST
    without pay. So no, those that are furloughed will not be paid for those days unless Congress passes special legislation later, which I doubt would happen. Those are not vacation days, or anything.

    Parent
    Thanks, Peter. I assumed everyone, furloughed (none / 0) (#166)
    by vml68 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:29:55 PM EST
    or not, would eventually get paid once the shutdown ended.
    I have not heard of "furlough" meaning 'laid off a day at a time without pay', rather 'laid off for any amount of time with out pay'.

    Parent
    My point was not "day at a time" - sorry (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Peter G on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 08:39:36 PM EST
    if that was confusing - but rather that according to the Assistant U.S. Attorneys who were grousing about this to me when we were chatting prior to a hearing in federal court two weeks ago, they were told to take days off without pay, or worse were told that days they were out on vacation would be deemed to be compulsory days off without pay, and this was referred to as a "furlough." As opposed to the days that they were working, for which they were not being paid currently but expected to be paid later.

    Parent
    Mariano Rivera becomes the first player (none / 0) (#24)
    by McBain on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:43:02 PM EST
    to be unanimously voted into the baseball hall of fame. Not Babe Ruth, not Willie Mays.... a relief pitcher.  

    Rivera was great at his job but this tells me in addition to closing out games better than anyone else, he must be a pretty good guy.  There have been several players more valuable than him but they all had at least one enemy who got to vote for the hall fame.  

    I can understand someone not voting for Ty Cobb or Barry Bonds but think of all the others who didn't get a unanimous vote.

    You (none / 0) (#26)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 06:50:28 PM EST
    think there would be at least one Yankee hater in the group, that's a strong force to overcome.

    Parent
    As a proud Yankee hater (none / 0) (#38)
    by CST on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:02:25 PM EST
    I'd probably still vote for Rivera.  He's one of the only Yankees I can think of who was not only begrudgingly respected in Boston but actually liked (once he stopped playing of course).

    Parent
    As a Dodger fan, I'm a Yankee hater by default. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:10:39 AM EST
    But as a baseball aficionado, I also respect that ball club as an organization because you really can't argue against success. Their record -- 18 division titles, 40 AL pennants, and 27 World Series championships -- pretty much speaks for itself.

    Parent
    Am I the only one (none / 0) (#39)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:02:34 PM EST
    but I did not find the four African Americans taunting the White boys to be all that threatening.  The written descriptions sounded horrible to me.  

    But listening to the videos, their voices were not filled with a lot of raw emotion and energy.  It seemed a like a bit of desultory trash talking.  They were vastly outnumbered by the students.  And, I must confess I laughed at one of their taunts.

    For one thing, it was four (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:34:42 PM EST
    against what? Fifty or a hundred?

    Every time I've been waylaid on the street by someone who seemed crazy or otherwise impervious to reason, I've just walked away and it's pretty much worked every time.

    Parent

    African American (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:05:03 PM EST
    strangers have bailed me out time and again when I was really screwed and traveling.

    One time, my Mom was in ICU in central Texas. I flew in to Austin and tried to rent a car.  The guy at the rental counter was a young, sharply dressed African American who was a go-getter.  He told me he could not rent me a car because my license had expired a few weeks before.

    Without whining or challenging him, I just looked him in the eye and calmly said my Mom was in the hospital and I was trying to get to visit her (some two hours north of Austin.)  He calmly shuffled his papers, and without further comment, rented me the car.  

    Has happened to me many times like that.  If you start out thinking African Americans are threatening, things have a way of deteriorating.

    Parent

    Black Hebrew Israelites (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:28:32 PM EST
    are Black nationalist extremists and religious crazy. Not much different than your white christian identity or dominionists. I can see them being threatening to SOME people.

    I also do agree wholeheartedly with you on the kindness of strangers who also might be African American. I blew out a rear tire doing about 80 mph on a fairly remote two lane between Campo, CO and the OK state line. No cell signal. The first car to stop and ask if they could help was a black couple in small car. Not much they could. But hey insisted I take a bottle of water and a bottle of juice before leaving. Eventually a state cop rolled by and called a tow truck to take me back to Lamar.

    As a large white man with long hair on a Harley Davidson, I often came off as somewhat intimidating. But mostly to middle class whites. Not so much black folks. In many cases, in many places, it was African Americans who likely to say hello. Offer assistance. Heck, offer to feed me. When I first moved to New Orleans, many moons ago, my first friend at the typesetting shop I worked at was the black delivery driver. He and I would spend hours talking about New Orleans. I learned more from that man that anyone else the entire timed I lived in that wonderful city.

    Coming up over the years, I always seemed to have at least one black running buddy. That also drew attention from cops. Theory amongst law enforcement is if a black fellow and white fellow (especially with my appearance those days) were hanging out, we most likely were up to no good.

    Parent

    There is often a small group (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:16:09 PM EST
    Of them downtown if anything is going on.

    Some of my family settled Campo CO. That is some desolation.

    Parent

    You're not the only one (none / 0) (#46)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:19:40 PM EST
    In fact, in the one tape I saw, the "snaps" thrown at the boys were pretty accurate.  If we're gonna use the boys will be boys excuse then there's a flip side. Young men talk $hit. Especially when they've got their whole crew with them. Let's not pretend.

    Nonetheless, I doubt things would've escalated at all had those young men not worn their MAGA gear.

    Parent

    I think the teens would mostly agree with you, (none / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:21:17 PM EST
    from what I saw.

    Although, I think the tenor of the arguing ebbed and flowed, sometimes more serious, sometimes less.

    Video shows that the teens and at least a couple of the BHIs were smiling and laughing throughout most of the encounter. Although one of the BHIs in particular seemed to be almost always dead serious.

    And I saw no BHI smiling during the 10 - 15 minute arguing with some Native Americans (not the same NA group that got involved in the controversy).

    From what I saw, based on their laughter and goofing around in response to most of the BHI's comments, the teens thought the BHIs were more ineffectually insulting rather than actually physically dangerous. Which makes sense as there were only 5 BHIs.

    At one point one of the BHIs said something sorta seriously insulting and one of the teens responded "Cmon, take that back." as though disappointed that they were all enjoying a game and the BHI dude had gone a little too far.

    That said, one particular BHI comment was roundly booed. When one of the BHIs said "you give faggots rights" the teens as a group very loudly booed him.

    Parent

    For the most part, the actions and words (none / 0) (#52)
    by McBain on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:41:50 PM EST
    on that day were much ado about nothing.  As far as I know, no one was injured.  The BHI crazies came across the worst but didn't seem to ruin anyone's day (possible exception being the African American they singled out for some of their slurs).  

    The problem was the typical media reaction to limited information.  This is one of reason's I don't like Twitter very much. One thing that really needs to stop is the posting of personal information in social media, like someone's address.... basically public shaming by a shameful mob.

    Parent

    No, you miss the point (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:09:20 PM EST
    The BHI guys were knot heads but not threatening.  The cops did not care.

    But that did not stop PR mommy from making this about those scary Black men.  Where I have heard that meme before?  When in doubt, blame the scary black guys--and this time the black guys never came close to physically threatening anyone, nor did the students feel threatened.  This was an after the fact PR concoction by mommy and PR team.

    No one physically threatened anyone from what the video shows.  But these kids who were laughing decided to laugh at and taunt the Native American Phillips.  Tomahawk chops.  Sneering arrogance.  

    But the PR deft distraction to the scary black guys.   Standard maneuver of white privilege.

    McBain, you say I am too emotional to judge this situation  accurately.  I say you are too enmeshed in your bias of white privilege to see the obvious.  

    I can see, feel, and smell white privilege sneering at indigenous peoples from a mile away. Based on my experience.  The expression on the student's face was unmistakable.  No doubt you missed it.  But the tomahawk chops should have clued you in.


    Parent

    No, you saw what you wanted to see (none / 0) (#70)
    by McBain on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:51:27 AM EST
    You never gave the kids a chance in this one. You're not alone, people on both sides of the political spectrum jumped to conclusions about one kid's facial expression.  The difference is some people were able to admit their mistake.

    Parent
    You resemble the points here (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by vicndabx on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:11:40 AM EST
    WAPO link

    and continue to gloss over this key fact

    Anyone who wears a Make America Great Again hat knows what it stands for, and who it stands against. Anyone with an understanding of American history knows that white people have long made excuses for other white people's racist behavior -- protecting their own as a method of protecting themselves.

    None of you seem to be able to address the fact the hat makes a racist statement.

    I would add it takes some real b@lls to talk about "giving kids a chance."

    Parent

    "Entitlement" (none / 0) (#85)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:04:16 AM EST
    more than "balls."

    Parent
    Josh at TPM (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:57:41 AM EST
    says it well:

    Over the weekend I gave you my take on the incident at the Lincoln Memorial last Friday. As I argued, the original video that went viral lacked a good deal of context. But when you add in the context, the upshot is not dramatically different, an ugly interaction in which a gaggle of white teens, many in MAGA caps, taunt and jeer an impassive Native American man with `tomahawk chops' amid various hoops and hollers. NBC News is now out with an interview with Nick Sandmann, the high schooler at the center of the drama. Sandmann's "position", as he calls it, is that he wasn't disrespectful and that he didn't do anything wrong.

    Sandmann's interview is of a piece with the statement he put out earlier in the week with the assistance (or probably actually written by) a GOP PR firm hired by his parents. Sandmann says he was simply trying to defuse the situation and wanted to listen to Phillips.

    As someone who was once a high school boy, I can say with some confidence that that is utter bullshit. If you set aside the political and racial dynamics of the encounter, the crowd dynamics are quite clear. Sandmann isn't trying to defuse the situation. He's acting like a tough guy and signaling his disdain for Phillips and quite clearly playing to his classmates. He's feeding off their hoops and hollers and vice versa. The smirk is partly the property of all young men. But in Sandmann's case it's also about the confidence of privilege and power in the face of the outlandishness of Phillip's self-presentation.

    This is a good summary:

    Beyond the reality of the encounter, you have the unmistakable imagery of jeering and smiling white kids in MAGA caps surrounding one dark complected man.

    Congratulations, McBain, you win he award for the best see-no-racism, hear-no racism, admit-no- racism award.  The only racism that exists is the reverse kind that afflicts whites.

    Parent

    Sounds like it's more of a Trump thing to you (none / 0) (#98)
    by McBain on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:04:32 PM EST
    than anything else.  Some of the kids had Trump hats so they must be guilty of something.  If nothing else.....  a smirk!

    The only racism that exists is the reverse kind that afflicts whites.

    Of course that's not true but my experience has been the most racist people are those who can get away with it.

    Parent
    Tomahawk chops (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:56:54 PM EST
    Not really mistakeable, that.

    Parent
    Those who can get away with it (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:12:28 PM EST
    Do tell. And who are those people in your experience?

    Because, since White Nationalists are generally loudly and publicly called out, they can't be the "most racist" people you're referring to.

    Can you be more specific?

    Parent

    Dude (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 05:29:44 AM EST
    let me clue you in here. Wearing a MAGA hat is akin to wearing a swastika. It has been this way since the Nazis marched in Charlottesville with their MAGA hats on.

    Parent
    I don't blame (none / 0) (#82)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:44:04 AM EST
    the kids hat much.  After all, they got their attitudes from somewhere.

    PR mommy blaming the scary black guys who were not scary is a good place to start.  And an all- white "elite" prep school is another.``

    Parent

    I blame them (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:08:57 AM EST
    But that just me.

    Parent
    I blame them all (none / 0) (#90)
    by vicndabx on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:29:27 AM EST
    The problem is way deeper than this single incident.

    Parent
    Call me a softy (none / 0) (#91)
    by MKS on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:40:01 AM EST
    But you are probably right.

    Parent
    Watching with detached bemusement ... (none / 0) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:44:17 PM EST
    ... as this public discussion of the Covington Catholic controversy devolves into nonsense, I'm reminded of an episode of the 1970s-era CBS sitcom "Maude," in which the title character (the great Bea Arthur) and her husband Walter (Bill Macy) watch dumfounded as their 12-year-old grandson Phillip, who lives with them, openly cusses out another adult.

    "Where the Hell do you think that little brat learned to do that?" asked Walter rhetorically of his wife.

    "Hell if I know," responded Maude.

    It's long been my opinion that teenagers are a direct reflection of the surrounding culture and attitudes in which they've been raised. That is, because they obviously lack the sort of life's experiences which would otherwise lead them to rationalize and moderate their own behavior, were they adults, teenagers tend to first observe and then mimic the behavior of the adults who are in their particular orbit.

    It should therefore hardly be shocking to us that the immediate reaction of Nick Sandmann's mother and father was not to apologize publicly for their son's his race-baiting behavior but rather, to instead hire a public relations firm to assist the family in navigating the resultant public firestorm of controversy.

    It is also equally unsurprising that young Nick would subsequently deny to NBC's Savannah Guthrie that he was being disrespectful to that tribal elder. After all, that's the message which is clearly being conveyed to him by his own parents.

    As adults and parents, we need to recognize that regardless of whether or not we like it, we are indeed active role models for our teenaged youth. How these teenagers will respond to given situations is often predicated upon the examples we've set for them with our own respective personal behavior.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I love that PR Mom, when interviewed (none / 0) (#125)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:42:33 PM EST
    on the radio the other day, referred to the "Black Hebrew Israelites" as "Black Muslims." I heard that with my own two ears. Not surprised at all at that Freudian slip.

    Parent
    It wasn't just a one-off (none / 0) (#132)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:24:26 PM EST
    slip of the tongue apparently. According to The Independent, she also sent an email blaming "Black Muslims".

    Another one with maybe a lot of explaining to do.

    Parent

    Nope. (none / 0) (#101)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:13:38 PM EST
    The kid was part of a carnival like atmosphere where the teen crowd was responding with laughter, jokes, and wisecracks, etc., to whatever comments the BHIs screamed at them, whether the comments from the BHIs were funny or vile and dead serious.

    Then, in a matter of seconds, an unknown, uninvolved party - Mr. Phillips and his crew of camera-toting adults - came out of nowhere and wtf? decided to play a loud drum and, at the very least, rudely, force their way though the teens.

    The kids, who were still laughing and cracking wise with the BHIs, went along with Mr. Phillips and his crew at first, some of the teens in front of the crowd dancing to the beat and parting like the red sea, while some teens deeper in the crowd were not even aware that Mr. Phillips was even there.

    However, after a few seconds of forging his way through already the laughing, joking teens, when Mr. Phillips pushed himself into the face of one particular teen - Mr. Sandmann - for whatever reason, things changed.

    While Mr. Sandmann had every right to be where he was and certainly was under no obligation to submit to Mr. Phillip's inexplicable and uncivil behavior, in retrospect, Mr. Sandmann probably should have acquiesced to Mr. Phillip and stepped back, or aside, or whatever.

    Perhaps his pride kept him from doing so. Perhaps the whole scene was so bizarre and outlandish he really didn't know what to do. Perhaps Mr. Phillips should have said something, explained himself. Maybe Mr. Phillip found himself in uncharted waters and didn't know what to do. Maybe it was some of these, or all of these, or more.

    Regardless, a standoff commenced.

    Somehow my gut tells me that Mr. Sandmann's choice to not be domineered by Mr. Phillip had nothing to do with Mr. Phillip's race.

    Parent

    Did Sandmann Explain Why MAGA Hats? (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by RickyJim on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:35:50 PM EST
    What does MAGA have to do with right to life?
    When was America great?
    When did it stop being great?
    Is it great again now?
    Why didn't he wear the hat for his TV interview?

    Parent
    I don't need to hear his answers to those (1.33 / 3) (#131)
    by McBain on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:13:03 PM EST
    I'm more curious about the actions/intentions of Nathan Phillips. He's the one with the most explaining to do.

    As for MAGA, I think American has always been great, even in our darkest hours there's been greatness. I'll never need to wear a MAGA hat but I won't judge someone negatively just because they do.  
     

    Parent

    Phillips offered a totally credible account (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:28:01 PM EST
    of his intentions in an interview with NPR Monday. I commented and called attention to it the other day. He said his intention was to intervene in and thus defuse what he perceived as an escalating racial confrontation between the BHIs and the Covington boys, using the traditional calming and peacemaking methods of his own culture -- drumming and chanting. Which he said he regretted once he found himself in the middle, as he could see his intentions were not understood or appreciated.

    Parent
    While it's possible his intention was to defuse (1.50 / 4) (#136)
    by McBain on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:47:19 PM EST
    I think it's unlikely.  Just like the Covington Boys and the BHI, he was there to bring attention to a cause.  He saw an opportunity to get attention and he took it.  That's my opinion.    

    Parent
    Yeah (1.25 / 4) (#143)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:48:13 AM EST

    Nothing says defuse and calming like barging into a crowd and banging a drum within inches of a child's face.

    Parent
    Won't someone think (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:57:11 AM EST
    ABOUT THE CHILDREN

    the poor innocent children!!!!!

    What a laughable cliche you are.

    Parent

    It's not about the children (1.00 / 3) (#155)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 02:32:56 PM EST
    It's all about horrible behavior by adults. Those include the lying "elder," the homophobic and racist insult spewing BHI, and particularly the "elite" news media that somehow managed to leave out or down play those facts and make it all about those nasty children. Frankly it has been a truly clarifying learning experience.


    Parent
    My favorite part of this (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 03:15:52 PM EST
    Are those opportunisticly outraged by homophobic slurs.

    Abdul and a bunch of Catholic school boys in MAGA hats are simply OUTRAGED by a homophobic slur.

    It's wonderful.  Really.

    Parent

    Can you show us that? (none / 0) (#158)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 03:30:01 PM EST
    All I've seen is the BHI's telling the teens that Trump is a homosexual and the kids laugh. Then the BHI says "you give faggots rights" and the teens roundly boo him.

    2:18 and 3:10 here.

    Parent

    I believe you just "showed us that" (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 03:45:45 PM EST
    Thank you for your service

    Parent
    Ah, I get it now. Gotta give those kids (none / 0) (#161)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 03:58:05 PM EST
    credit for being so well trained in the arts of bamboozling.

    My guess is the teens had obtained previous intel that the BHIs would be there and would say that, so they practiced their unified response in advance in order to gain sympathy when the videos hit youtube.

    The Machiavellian bastids...

    Parent

    So let me get this (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:07:10 PM EST
    You believe that a bunch of Catholic school boys bused to DC for an anti abortion rally wearing MAGA hats are champions of gay rights?

    Yes?

    You think if those words were said in any other context by, say, one of their own, they would have laughed derisively?

    Is that what you are saying?

    Because what really REALLY galls me is people trying to point to that response as some kind of absurd proof of their tolerance

    Parent

    I have two teens. (none / 0) (#163)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:21:06 PM EST
    I have been pretty heavily involved in a number youth organizations since the early 2000's. Have spent thousands of hours with thousands of youths from all over the country.

    I think most teens these days very much support gays, thankfully.

    Given the choice between their response being an instantaneous and collective lie vs an instantaneous and collective truth, I think it was truthful.

    Parent

    Good for you (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:24:26 PM EST
    But understand this

    If they gave a rat's azz about gay rights they would not be wearing those fu@king hats.

    Parent

    I think you think (none / 0) (#165)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:28:21 PM EST
    the kids knew how and what you perceive their hats to mean.

    I think you are wrong.

    That said, I think they know it now.

    Parent

    That might be a good thing (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:31:11 PM EST
    Or it might mean they now understand they need to speak quietly

    I'm not convinced of either.  

    Parent

    I will say tho (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:36:13 PM EST
    I can accept the possibility those hats were passed out on the bus. And they really did learn exactly what they mean in  the aftermath

    I do hope you are right about that.  Even if it was just one of them.

    Parent

    I am totally confused. (5.00 / 6) (#172)
    by vml68 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:56:10 PM EST
    These poor innocent "children" are too young and sheltered to be aware of what a MAGA hat represents to most people in this country and/or the world but at the same time they are mature enough to have a say in adult women's reproductive choices?

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:10:10 PM EST
    You know what tho.  As little sympathy as I have I do find it easy to blame the church adults for bringing them there.

    I doubt very much they would have organised that trip on their own

    Which is in no way an excuse.  Just that many who grow up in such circumstances do not carry the torch of fear and loathing

    That said.  Most likely more do than don't

    I am of the belief that if you pull the thread of almost any loathsome action or organization you will find religion at the end of it.

    With apologies to the religious among us.  I know many fine people of faith.  But they are hopelessly outnumbered.

    Parent

    I don't think the hats have the same meaning (none / 0) (#174)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:16:10 PM EST
    to most people in this country and/or the world
    that you do.

    I think most most people in this country and/or the world are pretty low information compared to the people on TL.

    Parent

    sorry (none / 0) (#175)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:17:55 PM EST
    "that they do to you." not "that you do."

    Parent
    Whoa whoa (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:23:20 PM EST
    You lost me again.

    This entire country, including my county, is covered by 4g

    I'm sorry.  There is not a person in this, or probably any other, country over the age of 6 who does not know exactly what that what and slogan means.

    To imagine otherwise is nothing short of delusional.

    Parent

    I think many people in the country and world (none / 0) (#177)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:32:50 PM EST
    do not view the hat in the same light that you do.

    To imagine otherwise is nothing sort of delusional.

    Parent

    Sorry, SUO. It is not that these people (5.00 / 3) (#182)
    by vml68 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:55:14 PM EST
    do not view the hat in the same way I do. It is that they are ok with what it represents.  
    There is no MAGA hat without Tr*mp.
    MAGA hat = Tr*mp = Racism, Bigotry, Misogyny, etc.

    As for your comment that most youth these days are accepting of gays and so these boys probably are too. Let's not forget that these boys were on a Catholic school/church sanctioned/sponsored trip to protest against abortion. Last time I checked, the Church had pretty much the same view of abortion as it did the gays.
    So far, nothing I have seen has led me to believe these boys are independent thinkers.

    Parent

    I think you would be shocked (none / 0) (#183)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 06:05:35 PM EST
    at the many ways teens' view of the world differs from the authority figures in their lives.

    Parent
    No, I would not be shocked at all. I know (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by vml68 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 06:27:08 PM EST
    the kinds of teens you are talking about.  Also, I was that kind of teen once, many, many moons ago :-)!
    I am talking about these particular teens. I have not been impressed by what I have seen so far.

    Parent
    Fair enough, this particular situation (none / 0) (#187)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 07:01:25 PM EST
    was certainly not their best effort.

    Parent
    Fair enough, this particular situation (none / 0) (#188)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 07:01:34 PM EST
    was certainly not their best effort.

    Parent
    Are (none / 0) (#186)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 06:51:47 PM EST
    you suggesting that these teens spontaneously became anti-choice tRump supporters and charted a bus to DC? Boy that really showed how different they are from their red state Catholic parents and teachers.

    IMO they were political pawns for their "authority figures" the moment they stepped on the bus.

    Parent

    No argument from me. (none / 0) (#189)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 07:04:49 PM EST
    IMO they were political pawns for their "authority figures" the moment they stepped on the bus.


    Parent
    Ok (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:34:56 PM EST
    I'm out

    Parent
    Ok (none / 0) (#181)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:42:44 PM EST


    Parent
    This is true (none / 0) (#180)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 05:40:27 PM EST
    there are many racists all over the world.  We've seen their resurgence in numerous countries recently.

    Parent
    cool cool (none / 0) (#171)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 04:54:26 PM EST
    Not sure what difference it makes but I thought I heard the kid say in his interview yesterday that he bought the hat in DC?

    Parent
    Have you seen the media taking BHI to task for usi (none / 0) (#192)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 09:38:51 PM EST
    The F word? Or for the use of Cracker?

    Parent
    Everyone knows (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:26:23 PM EST
    The media has a Black Hebrew Israelite bias.

    Parent
    Honestly, those two kids in the BG (none / 0) (#149)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:34:21 AM EST
    with the white hats, look like they're 12 or 13 y/o...

    Parent
    Obviously, many people didn't think about (2.00 / 1) (#153)
    by McBain on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 12:14:03 PM EST
    what they were saying/tweeting/writing when trying to destroy these kids.  Being white, male, pro Trump and pro life made them easy targets for hateful knee jerk reactions.

    For those who've had time to think and analyze but still lash out, what is the goal exactly?   What are people trying to accomplish with their criticism?  Do they want the kids expelled? Blacklisted from colleges?  Something else?

    I'm still pro choice, against the death penalty and generally socially liberal but I don't support Democrats as much as I used to.  One of the reasons is the hateful intolerance and race bating we get in incidents like this one.  


    Parent

    OMG (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 12:17:00 PM EST
    If we were all  as evolved as McBain!!!!

    Parent
    And? (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:36:47 AM EST


    Parent
    Eh, kinda surprised me, that's all. (none / 0) (#151)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:56:40 AM EST


    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 12:02:50 PM EST
    Those poor misguided children

    In fu@king MAGA hats

    Parent

    A miracle occurred (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:03:37 PM EST
    and you're not the least bit curious how it came to be?

    Somehow a bunch of hormonal teenage males came to understand more about the exigencies of pregnancy and motherhood than millions of women do.

    That's something that calls for no explanation?

    Parent

    As far as I know (none / 0) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 09:03:03 AM EST
    he has not explained why maga hats. He said he bought his in DC.

    Parent
    And where the hell were the (none / 0) (#107)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:45:16 PM EST
    (theoretically) responsible adult chaperones whose job, one would think, would be at the very least to prevent kids from getting into volitile confrontations with adult strangers they might encounter.

    Was it their idea to just give those boys free rein to do Covington and the great state of Kentucky proud?

    Parent

    Chaperones? Please. Remember this was not (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:14:03 PM EST
    a class trip to see the Smithsonian and the national monuments. These boys were in Washington, sponsored by their school and its "chaperones," for the express purpose of loudly demanding that other people, whom they know NOTHING about, should be deprived of their human and legal rights.

    Parent
    Careful (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:19:37 PM EST
    McBain will sic the Breitbart lawyer on ya

    Parent
    Agreed. (none / 0) (#112)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:02:18 PM EST
    The standoff ended when a 40-50ish y/o woman walked through the group and said something about getting all the teens together "over there" for a photo,  and Mr. Sandmann walked away from Mr. Phillips at the point.

    My bet is they both were relieved. I'm assuming that woman was a chaperone?

    Parent

    Sustainable? Or legal? Not the same question. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:03:27 PM EST
    No one can be "forced" to work without pay, by which I mean, they cannot be arrested for quitting. (Which is not the same question as whether they have a right to strike.) But is that practical? As you point out, obviously not. The difference is, any other employer could be sued for wages plus a penalty for promising to pay you someday, but not on payday. Of course, employees who are unfairly denied their pay on a timely basis cannot get the usual help from the furloughed, "non-essential" workers of the U.S. Dept. of Labor just now. Are you asking whether it is legal for the federal government not to pay its employees in the absence of a current appropriation? Yes, it is. In fact, paying them would be illegal. Is the situation sustainable in a practical or political sense? I have to think not.

    I guess what I'm really asking (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:23:42 PM EST
    Is what could they do to them if they just said no pay no work.

    Do you think they could fire them if there was lots and lots of them. Like hundreds or thousands. If it was organized could they have legal problems for organizing it.

    Because I think something like that is the only thing I see stopping this.

    Also agencies like the FBI are literally running out of money.

    WSJ pay wall

    FBI Agents Group Warns Shutdown Imperils Investigations
    Report says law enforcement is hamstrung without ability to pay witnesses, certain personnel

    Can anyone do anything legal?  That's called a broad question.

    These services, some of them, you would think someone would think are necessary.

    Parent

    I saw this the other day (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:52:26 PM EST
    Judge: No Relief for Furloughed Federal Workers

    The Post reports that the American Federation of Government employees has also filed a separate suit against the Trump administration, making similar claims that workers it represents need compensation or an alternative.
    .
    But, as Yahoo News' Aarthi Swaminathan notes, workers' legal options aren't yet exhausted.

    While attorney Michael Kator of Kator, Parks, Weiser & Harris called the judge's decision "a disappointment," he signaled that there is some room for recourse.

    "The judge did indicate that he was willing to consider further argument on January 31," Kator said, adding that the lawsuit is a "two-step process." Even if Leon dismisses the first request--a temporary restraining order--Kator's clients are still pursuing a preliminary injunction, which the judge "would continue to consider."



    Parent
    The first week of Feb (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:26:42 PM EST
    Can not come soon enough.  Cohen is the 7th, Monday and Tuesday is this

    Nadler sends Whitaker questions on possible contacts with Trump over Mueller probe

    Nadler is calling Whit

    It's said (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 10:00:04 PM EST
    He is providing the questions along with an instruction, if you plan to try exec privilege on any of this I want to know it now.

    Smart.

    Parent

    Missed this in the massive news dump (none / 0) (#60)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:26:16 PM EST
    The US may allow law suits against Cuba for the property Castro stole right after he came to power.

    They'll probably has as much luck (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 12:05:51 AM EST
    getting that money as Chileans and Guatemalans would if they sued the U.S for complicity in their murder and torture.

    Parent
    Of course they are. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:25:37 AM EST
    And if this Trump crowd thought they could get away with it, they'd likely rescind the diplomatic recognition of Vietnam, too.

    Parent
    CARNIVALE (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:15:45 AM EST
    Maybe I should stop being Debbie Downer and talk about tv.

    I have been binging this.  On demand is so great.  Every great series is there.

    I you never saw this you really should.  It is absolutely one of the very best things ever on the small screen.  Such a tragedy it was before it's time and didn't get the planned 3rd season.

    Still.

    I think maybe ROME is next.

    Rome is good. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 02:42:29 PM EST
    Have you ever watched all the seasons of The Wire?

    Parent
    I have (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:22:50 PM EST


    Parent
    I gotta say (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:56:38 AM EST
    This is making me all warm and fuzzy

    Gay mayor Pete Buttigieg just launched his 2020 presidential campaign

    You have to admit.  It's hard to imagine a better b!tch slap of the MAGAs

    PS (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:07:17 AM EST
    VP totally works in this case

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#88)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:11:11 AM EST
    shot from Pelosi
    4 members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus -- Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Ro Khanna (Calif.), Ayanna Pressley (Mass.) and Rashida Tlaib (Mich.) -- were named Tuesday night to the House Oversight Committee.
    is also impressive. Especially Rashida "Impeach the MF" Tlaib.

    Parent
    This mayor (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 11:16:34 AM EST
    Is an impressive guy.  Just freakin Google him.

    Imagine a Harris/Buttigieg or Klobuchar/Buttigieg ticket.

    Fire on the mountain

    Parent

    I was (none / 0) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:08:39 PM EST
    supporting him for the head of the DNC whenever that was.

    Parent
    FOX News (none / 0) (#93)
    by ragebot on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 12:48:19 PM EST
    reporting Cohen will postpone his testimony before congress.

    found a link (none / 0) (#94)
    by ragebot on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 12:49:44 PM EST
    Lanny says due to threats from Trump.

    Capt. Howdy I am looking at you.

    Parent

    Your glee in reporting this (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:19:01 PM EST
    Seems somewhat desperate.  I would just point out he "delays" it.  
    A rather theatrical thing to do. It seems to me.

    In doing so he makes Dumph look like mob boss.

    He will testify.

    Parent

    Details you may have missed (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:30:37 PM EST
    On FOX news


    Elijah Cummings, D-Md., who heads the Oversight and Reform Committee, and Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., who heads the Intelligence Committee, said in a joint statement that they understood Cohen's concerns and called efforts to intimidate congressional witnesses "textbook mob tactics that we condemn in the strongest possible terms." The lawmakers and Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., who heads the Judiciary Committee, expect Cohen to appear before all the panels and they would engage with his lawyer.

    "Mr. Cohen wishes to thank Chairman Cummings for allowing him to appear before the House Oversight Committee and looks forward to testifying at the appropriate time," Davis said



    Parent
    And by the way (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:44:58 PM EST
    He can't actually talk about all the best stuff yet.  Later he will be able to talk about those things.

    Parent
    According (none / 0) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:33:43 PM EST
    to Lanny Davis you are correct in that his testimony is just going to be postponed to a later date.

    Parent
    According (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 08:33:43 PM EST
    to Lanny Davis you are correct in that his testimony is just going to be postponed to a later date.

    Parent
    They have said (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 09:04:46 PM EST
    They will subpoena him but I don't think it will come to that.  This feels like theater to me.  Building a case against Cheeto for witness tampering which is a felony.

    I think it will happen before he go to prison in March but they have said he can still testify after that.

    Cummins today said something like 'as sure as day becomes night and night becomes day he will testify'

    With a little twinkle

    Parent

    Oopsie (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:32:27 AM EST
    Cohen subpoenaed to appear before oversight committee


    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:32:58 AM EST
    Intel committee

    Which is better

    Parent

    Better by the way (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 10:37:12 AM EST
    Because even tho it may be closed, which sucks, it is a bi partisan committee.  

    In the Senate.

    Parent

    Just when you thought (none / 0) (#145)
    by ragebot on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:21:20 AM EST
    it could not get any crazier.

    Senate subpoenas Cohen.

    Will be interesting to see if he testifies before the Senate or House first.

    Parent

    sorry missed earlier posts (none / 0) (#146)
    by ragebot on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:22:49 AM EST
    still wonder where Cohen will testify first.

    Parent
    Easy (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:24:13 AM EST
    Intel

    Mid Feb

    Parent

    Should try reading comments (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:23:36 AM EST
    Before commenting

    Or perhaps it is intentional ignorance?

    Parent

    more likely (none / 0) (#157)
    by ragebot on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 03:29:55 PM EST
    opening a page and not refreshing it.

    Why is a bad motive your first choice?

    Parent

    Experience (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 03:46:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Lawyer for Covington HS kids gives media (none / 0) (#108)
    by McBain on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 03:54:11 PM EST
    and celebrities 48 hours to retract false statements.
    "If you have said anything false about these kids, they are willing to extend you a 48-hour time period...

    ...He also explained that plaintiffs are allowed to seek "per se damages" in libel lawsuits, meaning that individual damages do not have to be proven.

    "Those damages can range from $50,000 to $300,000 to, in the Gawker case, millions and millions of dollars," he said.

    I think he's talking mostly about major media articles and famous celebrity tweets but it's probably time for people in here to stop spreading misinformation as well.


    What a wonderful example ... (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:52:05 PM EST
    ... these adults of Covington, KY are setting for the children in their community. Go right ahead, counselor. Sue. And then, watch what happens during discovery to you and your silly clients, who clearly don't know when to stop doubling down on stupid.

    Parent
    That's seriously funny (5.00 / 6) (#118)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 05:42:30 PM EST
     Did you see his threat re: Maggie Haberman?  What a joke.

    Someone needs a remedial class in libel law.

    Parent

    Ooh, 48 hours. (5.00 / 4) (#119)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 06:54:33 PM EST
    Because Robert Barnes is drawing a line in the sand, in the name of human decency.

    I wonder where that jackwad was when Fox declared it's Fatwa against the Parkland High School kids, and when the unhinged gun nut quarter of Foxland was harassing the Sandy Hook families?


    Parent

    I worked with Barnes on a high-profile case (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 10:50:41 PM EST
    about ten years ago. He's politically right-libertarian, a very hard-working, intelligent attorney, as well as a grand-stander. (His cross-examination of an IRS agent in that case was one of the best I've ever read, and in my opinion led to the client's acquittal on all major charges.) I wouldn't be surprised if he does file some suits. He's mistaken about libel law being favorable to private-figure plaintiffs who find themselves in the news, though, as well as being wrong about falsity by itself being sufficient to establish libel (true only if the falsehood is defamatory), and also wrong about per se damages. Not so.

    Parent
    I love he is threatening (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 23, 2019 at 04:39:43 PM EST
    To sue Maggie Haberman.

    Parent
    Italy to pay compensation to Amanda Knox (none / 0) (#139)
    by McBain on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 09:58:53 AM EST
    Link
    Europe's top human rights court ruled Thursday that Knox's rights were violated in the hours after she was arrested in the Italian city of Perugia over the killing of her British housemate, Meredith Kercher, in 2007.
    The European Court of Human Rights (EHCR) said Italy should pay Knox 18,400 euros (about $20,800) for failing to provide her with a lawyer and an appropriate interpreter when she was first detained. But it found there was no evidence for her claim that she was mistreated while in police custody.

    This was one of those crazy rush to judgement cases.  Knox was unfairly portrayed by the Italian media.  Some hated her because she was an American and never really looked at the lack of incriminating evidence. As far as I know, the crazy prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, is still involved with the Italian legal system.

    Marcy (none / 0) (#184)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 06:21:01 PM EST
    has a great article  How Trump Suborns Perjury. Bottom line:  
    In this administration, the president doesn't need to order his subordinates to lie for him. It's a daily matter of course. Mueller's team seems to be wise to that, even if Congress and much of the media aren't quite there yet.

    I would go a step further by saying there is no need for orders because lying is the "prime directive" for anyone working for tRump.

    I think tRump believes that anyone lying to him protect him is showing true loyalty and the expects it (and invariably gets it) from insiders like Cohen and demands it from outsiders like Spicer who was forced to tell that huge whopper on day one.  

    Some people looking for a WH gig think it looks good on their resume  

    By his own account, Papadopoulos lied "out of loyalty to the new president and his desire to be part of the administration."
     
    I think it's an absolute requirement.

    After all... (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 24, 2019 at 11:50:55 PM EST
    "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?" is just an idle question, isn't it?

    Parent
    What y'all (none / 0) (#202)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 05:52:19 AM EST
    wanna bet with Roger Stone's indictment and according to MSNBC there are more indictments coming down the pike today that all of a sudden the senate decides it is time to forget about the wall and reopen the government?

    FL Joe (none / 0) (#204)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 07:32:58 AM EST
    it appears that the Sr. Campaign official is Steve Bannon.

    So Mueller is showing us the pipeline to Russian Intelligence. Wikileaks to Stone to Bannon to ?

    Yikes (none / 0) (#205)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 08:00:10 AM EST
    Get caught up in a binge a look what happens

    Fortunately there are several open threads with lots of space just down the page a bit.

    Bannon (none / 0) (#206)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 08:29:43 AM EST
    was not a Sr Campaign official during the July time frame.

    Sorry to run on (none / 0) (#207)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 05:07:51 PM EST
    But Matthew Sears has some stuff to say about MAGA hats that is a bit more eloquent that we were

    This is a lesson we need to consider when looking at the Washington incident. That the boys were wearing MAGA hats and other Trump apparel -- and allowed (if not encouraged) by their chaperones to do so while at the March for Life -- constitutes a deliberate political act and a deliberate provocation. In our current context, it is impossible to separate the MAGA symbol from anti-immigrant and anti-minority views and policies. After all, what could "make America great again" mean other than returning America to its "ancestral constitution," in which those like Phillips didn't have a voice?
    From the Detroit Free Press (none / 0) (#208)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 25, 2019 at 10:38:34 PM EST
    Damon Warren: I think this defines the political debate in our country overall. Both "sides" are so convinced that not only are their own views infallible, but anyone who disagrees could only be an idiot.

    Attorney Lin Wood to represent Sandmann (none / 0) (#209)
    by McBain on Sat Jan 26, 2019 at 10:41:12 AM EST
    Here's a statement by Wood and Todd McMurtry.
    In the coming weeks, we will be carefully reviewing all of the false accusations and threats made against Nick. We fully expect that a multitude of civil lawsuits will be filed and aggressively pursued. We recognize that justice for Nick will not be achieved quickly, but we are dedicated to achieving it for this young man regardless of time or expense.
    And those adults who manipulate boys (none / 0) (#210)
    by jondee on Sat Jan 26, 2019 at 11:45:24 AM EST
    who know nothing about the world, into getting worked-up and acting as MAGA-hat-wearing Pro-life firebrands out on the frontlines in Washington, what about them?

    Is anyone holding their feet to the fire?

    jondee, the Today Show said Sandmann (none / 0) (#211)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Jan 26, 2019 at 01:19:35 PM EST
    bought his hat in DC.

    Do you have info that the (other) kids were outfitted in the hats by the school/parents?

    Obviously the rest of what your write is spot on...

    Tuesday Open Thread | 210 comments (210 topical)