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Biden's Sliver of a Path Forward

I keep seeing news articles about record turnouts in South Carolina. More people may have voted but the state hardly deserves praise. The state has 3.3 million Registered Voters and only 16% (500,000 of them) voted in yesterday's primary. 256k voters picked Biden, 105K picked Bernie, 60k chose Steyer, 48k picked Pete, 27k chose Warren, and 16k chose Amy. Biden got 44% of the votes.

In 2016, 371,000 Dems voted in the S.C. primary, and Hillary got 272,000 votes (57%).So notwithstanding lower turnout in 2016, Hillary got more votes than Biden did. Bernie got 96k votes, while this year Bernie got 105k votes, showing that Bernie brought out 20% of the vote on his own.

No one is mentioning the Latino vote which overwhelmingly has gone to Sanders so far. Or that in California alone, 25 million people are eligible to vote on Super Tuesday. Texas has 15 million eligible to vote. These two states have the largest number of Latino voters. [More...]

This is Biden's third run at the presidency over 30 years and S.C. was his first ever primary win. Hasn't the public told Biden, over and over, hey, we're just not that into you?

After Super Tuesday, one of two things should happen: Either Biden should drop out, leaving the Dems a choice between Sanders, Warren and the two moderate Dems, Buttigieg and Klobuchar, or Warren, Buttigieg and Klobuchar should drop out and hope one of the three soon to be octogenarian male candidates still in the running (Biden, Sanders and Bloomberg) pick them to be VP.

One combo that would ensure I vote down-ticket only: A Biden-Kamala Harris ticket. The only thing worse than crime warrior Biden is adding a former prosecutor like Harris to the ticket.

Two combos that I would like to see: Sanders/Booker or Warren/Castro. As for Pete, he's too green behind the ears and we don't need a "Doogie Howser" in the White House.

Meanwhile, all the candidates are off to Selma, AL to commemorate civil rights marches from the 1960's.

[They will] join a march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge. The event will commemorate Bloody Sunday, the day in 1965 when civil rights marchers were attacked on the bridge by state troopers as they tried to cross.

Bernie and Biden are old enough to have been there. Bloomberg may wish he had gone, after churchgoers in Selma turned their back on him today when he came to speak to them at their service:

Congregants at the historic Brown Chapel AME Church in Selma, Alabama, silently protested 2020 presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg as he delivered remarks there Sunday, standing and turning their backs on the former New York City mayor.

...

Bloomberg addressed the congregation at Brown Chapel AME Church during a church service in which he discussed voter suppression and the fight for civil rights. But roughly 10 minutes into his remarks, several in attendance rose from their seats and silently turned away from him. The churchgoers remained standing through the end of Bloomberg's remarks.

Bloomberg is still a wild card, but I suspect on Super Tuesday, more Democrats will decide that whether he could beat Trump is not as important as that he is not one of us. They will tune him out and just decide to work harder for a real Democrat in November.

Bottom line: Sanders or Elizabeth should get the nomination and we should count on the younger and more diverse groups of voters who overwhelmingly support them to get out the vote. If they don't, rather than settle on an oldie and not so goodie, we try again in 2024.

< Joe Biden Wins South Carolina, Who Cares? | Sunday Night Media Open Thread: Non-Primaries Edition >
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    I don't see this view being widely held (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 03:02:21 PM EST
    we try again in 2024.

    More like the opposite.  If we don't win this time there might not be a next time.

    That is what I believe. (none / 0) (#5)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 03:51:09 PM EST
    This republic will not survive after four more years of orange jesus. If he wins re-election, I believe the chance of their being a 2024 presidential election are slim and none. This country will not be the one you and I grew up in.

    Parent
    It already isn't (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 05:04:20 PM EST
    the same country we grew up in, but I don't think we will cease to exist at all.

    Trump and cronies don't play fair, so there's never a guarantee Dems will win, even with a moderate nominee. Maybe it's time to go for broke.

    Parent

    Absolutely not (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 03:03:26 PM EST
    Bottom line: Sanders or Elizabeth should get the nomination and we should count on the younger and more diverse groups of voters who overwhelmingly support them to get out the vote. If they don't, rather than settle on an oldie and not so goodie, we try again in 2024.

    Your dislike of Biden aside,  this country cannot withstand another 4 years of Trump.

    Seriously.

    This also applies to Bernie: (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 04:10:54 PM EST
    " Bloomberg is still a wild card, but I suspect on Super Tuesday, more Democrats will decide that whether he could beat Trump is not as important as that he is not one of us."

    You don't think (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 05:22:45 PM EST
    after 7 years, Bernie has shown that he is now one of us? I do. I didn't buy his revolutionary stuff in 2012 or 2016, but he's dropped that claim, and his values now are very much Democrat values. We do need all he is promising, there's just a question of how to pay for it. He is not a socialist, he supports capitalism, he just wants expanded government so it can take on more social programs. Is increasing every child's chance to succeed by providing pre-k preschool, universal health care (like Medicare but not Medicare), higher wages for educators, ending the war on drugs, building less prisons and respecting family unification by allowing undocumented immigrants already here, working and paying taxes to stay here really so out of the mainstream? I don't think so. It's consistent with what I was taught by my parents and I still believe in.

    Parent
    I think one of his core beliefs is he is not (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 08:23:56 PM EST
    one of us, i.e., a Democrat.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, I sincerely hope you will (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 04:12:32 PM EST
    vote for the Democratic nominee.  

    I do promise that (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 05:15:30 PM EST
    if he gets the nomination, I will not campaign against him or urge anyone else not to vote for the Democratic ticket. As between him and Trump, of course Trump is worse. And Republicans are always worse on crime issues than Democrats. I just can't personally check a box next to his name or solicit a single dollar for him.

    Parent
    I do see her point (none / 0) (#8)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 04:31:39 PM EST
    about Kamala as VP.

    So, I could do what Howdy says and support Abrams as VP.

    Parent

    Harris. No. Doesn't have much support in CA. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 06:45:29 PM EST
    I will not vote for Biden (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 05:08:53 PM EST
    I will vote downticket only if he's the nominee. The damage his crime bills have done to this country is inexcusable. I still fight every one of his laws every day in court, from habeas to mandatory minimums, to racially disparate charging decisions and sentencingm, caused by the laws he wrote and promoted.  have read his speeches in the congressional record from those years and I am just appalled. Calling George "HW" Bush soft on crime compared to him? His love of police? His exaggerations? No dice. I still have some principles left.

    Parent
    538 (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    Hypothesis No. 5: There has already been a national surge toward Biden that is not fully reflected in the polls.

    It didn't get much notice, but polling outside of South Carolina was also pretty favorable to Biden toward the end of last week, including polls that showed sharp improvements for him in states such as Florida and North Carolina. He's also gotten better results in some national polls lately -- climbing back into the low 20s -- along with other, not-so-great ones.

    The data isn't comprehensive enough to know for sure. Between the dense cluster of events on the campaign trail (primaries, debates, etc.) and the different races that pollsters are surveying (South Carolina, Super Tuesday, national polls), everything is getting sliced pretty thin. But we do know that Biden made big improvements since the debate in South Carolina polling, the one state where we did have enough data to detect robust trendlines.

    Degree of concern for Sanders if this hypothesis is true: High. Suppose that Biden gained 5 or 6 percentage points across the board nationally and in Super Tuesday states as a result of this week's debate (or other recent factors such as voters' reaction to coronavirus), but it's gone largely undetected because there hasn't been enough polling. If that's the case, then Biden may already be in a considerably better position than current polling averages and models imply -- and then he could get a further bounce from winning South Carolina on top of it. This is a scary possibility for Sanders, and although there isn't enough data to prove it, there also isn't much that would rule it out.

    What Biden's Big South Carolina Win Might Mean For Sanders



    Disagree (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 03:34:31 PM EST
    there is absolutely no reason to nominate Sanders. We don't even know if his heart can withstand a presidential campaign. You could argue for Warren but it would seem the voters don't want to vote for her.

    Sander's path to me seems slim at this point with him possibly being shut out of delegates in SC and then closed primaries where Sanders will once again be shut out of delegates.

    Biden (none / 0) (#13)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 05:42:36 PM EST
    Has far too many senior moments, and they will only get worse. At least The Bern still has his mental faculties.
    Obama was right when he said, Joe, you don't have to do this. He should have told him not to, as should his wife.
    Former President Barack Obama wasn't so sure Joe Biden, his former veep, should run for president in 2020, The New York Times reported Friday.

    "You don't have to do this, Joe, you really don't," Obama told Biden earlier this year, according to a Times source, prior to the former senator jumping into the crowded Democratic primary field.

    The Times also reported that Obama met with top Biden advisers in March and, according to the sources, requested that the ex-veep's team do what they can so that Biden does not "embarrass himself" or "damage his legacy."


    Parent
    Bernie (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 05:49:24 PM EST
    mind you can't tell because he has the same answer to everything.

    All of that is old news and at this point nobody cares. I see your divide and conquer strategy and I'm taking a pass.

    And I'm quite aware that you Russians love Bernie.

    Parent

    Divide and Conquer? (none / 0) (#15)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 06:07:41 PM EST
    Biden's declining mental faculties are common knowledge.

    The Ukraine has also re opened its criminal investigation into the firing of Shokin.
    Such short memories, after 2016 one would think the D's would prefer to avoid potential landmines like that.

    Parent

    I love these crocodile tears (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 09:05:28 PM EST
    Complaints of "declining mental faculties" from the guys who's leader has a 4th grade vocabulary and can't even form complete sentences, let alone articulate a cogent thought.  Not to mention the number of real investigations that result in actual indictments/sentences against everyone around "Individual One," and the ones he could be facing when he's out of office and can be indicted.

    It's almost like you guys are trying to be funny.

    Parent

    The Donald (2.00 / 1) (#26)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 04:38:24 AM EST
    Always spoke that way, no obvious decline of what already was.
    How many dogface pony soldier moments do you require before realizing Joe is losing it. The man he worked with for 8 years knew this, told Biden aides to not let him embarrass himself.

    The real investigation right now is in the Ukraine, and after seeing Biden boast about his throwing his weight around in Ukraine, there very well might be something there.

    Parent

    So your defense ... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Yman on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 09:09:04 PM EST
    ... is that Trump has always been a senile idiot, followed by some laughable, wingnut, tinfoil conspiracy theory?

    Dear God ... please tell me you work for his campaign.

    Parent

    No, Trevor (none / 0) (#33)
    by Zorba on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 01:33:44 PM EST
    Donald did not always speak like this.
    Look up some of his interviews from the 80's and 90's.  He was much better spoken.

    Parent
    Biden's declining mental faculties?? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by desertswine on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 09:57:18 PM EST
    Did you see Trumpf the other day? He looked like death warmed over.  And the guy is reduced to dry-humping the American flag! Jeebus get real Vlad.

    Parent
    The real question for me (none / 0) (#17)
    by ragebot on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 06:54:31 PM EST
    is how the dems resolve the obvious split in the party.  Sanders does not seem to have a real shot at getting a majority of delegates to win the nomination outright.  Thing is no one else seems to realistically have a chance to get more first round delegates than Sanders less yet get a majority.

    Maybe Biden or Bloomberg (or a white knight who rides in at the last minute) can get the nomination on a later round or in the alternative Sanders winds getting it.

    But look at how many big name dems have bashed Sanders in public on video.  Even if they later come out and support Sanders there are ads that make themselves of dems bashing Sanders that will be used against him.

    By the same token the Bernie Bros are one small step from going off the deep end if they think the "establishment" stole the nomination from Sanders.

    I have seen multiple comments by a couple of regulars here who basically say ignore the Bernie Bros and the havoc they will cause if Sanders is not nominated and go with a middle of the road candidate.  On the other hand some of these same posters who supported someone other than Biden have dissed Biden for his 'foot in his mouth' disease till it became clear their first choice had no chance.

    I don't see a realistic way this split can be resolved before the election.  Not to mention the pubs seem to be all in supporting Trump.  Hard to think of a never Trumper who has any real clout in the GOP.

    Wrong (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 07:04:33 PM EST
    Sanders now is likely to not even get the most delegates.

    Secondly there is no "split" in the party. It's the fringe vs. the rest of us and for every Sanders supporter that leaves we gain two or more voters. It's not that big of a deal.

    Parent

    Uh, you need to speak (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 10:12:47 PM EST
    for yourself rather than "the rest of us". I've  been a fringe player my whole life. I'm just careful not to overstep the line. I don't see Bernie as an outlier or revolutionary. And while I am still debating who to vote for in Tuesday's Colorado primary, he's making the best arguments to me. One reason is that he isn't fixated on one segment of the population, he's being inclusive rather than pitching for any one minority. Rather than separating us, he's trying to bring us together.

    Sure, a few TL readers  who support Trump will try to conquer and divide. I'm not getting distracted by them and I don't mind their voicing their opinions here. They are articulate and don't shill. Let's keep the respect level high.

    Parent

    Anyone who claims (none / 0) (#24)
    by ragebot on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 10:43:46 PM EST
    there is no split in the dems really needs to get out more.  Every talking head on TV is saying there is a big serious split.  And it is not caused by the pubs it is because Sanders has a huge following and there is no way any dem candidate can win the presidential election with out a significant number of Sanders voters.

    Parent
    You need (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 05:47:26 AM EST
    to get out more and find out what rank and file actually thinks of Sanders. There is a reason why he's only got 1/3 of primary voters. I know you're just repeating what wingnut welfare tells you. Maybe you should have a discussion with those African American voters in SC instead of repeating what some jagoff on talk radio told you.

    Parent
    I think I know who (none / 0) (#35)
    by NoSides on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 03:05:47 PM EST
    is circling and hoping to be the "white knight" you mentioned.
    She gives interviews from time to time.

    I would prefer that Democrats not bash other Democrats, but their criticisms will mean nothing once the campaign gets started.

    Look at all the barbs aimed at Donald J by all the others. They wound up supporting him - and their criticisms were never revived by the press. They just disappeared from view.

    People who support Sanders, people somewhat contemptuously referred to as Bernie Bros.  are not the people who create "havoc".

    The people who will create havoc are those who try to subvert the democratic process - as the DNC did in 2016 - causing its chair person to resign when discovered.

    Parent

    Jeralyn (none / 0) (#23)
    by ragebot on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 10:39:29 PM EST
     
    wrote

    Uh, you need to speakfor yourself rather than "the rest of us"

    As my dear departed Granny use to say 'there is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the rest of us, its hard to tell them from the rest of us.'


    Sorry spell check did this (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ragebot on Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 10:45:08 PM EST
    should have been
    As my dear departed Granny use to say 'there is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, its hard to tell them from the rest of us.'


    Parent
    Latino vote (none / 0) (#27)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 04:46:18 AM EST
    No one is mentioning the Latino vote which overwhelmingly has gone to Sanders so far. Or that in California alone, 25 million people are eligible to vote on Super Tuesday. Texas has 15 million eligible to vote. These two states have the largest number of Latino voters. [More...]

    May very well be more consequential then the AA vote. The Latino vote decided Nevada, and will decide California and Texas.

    Additionally, California has already received over 3 million ballots, those are votes made before recent events as well.

    Yes (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 05:49:33 AM EST
    right

    Above is just one of the reasons you are pushing for Sanders. It's pretty obvious why the Russians and Vlad's army like you want him.

    Parent

    Lol (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 06:07:11 AM EST
    I am not pushing for anyone, just following closely, seeing many parallels between the D's in 2020 and the R's in 2016.

    And it was proclaimed the R Party would crash and burn if they nominated The Donald. There was a lot of talk of the R insiders stealing the nomination from The Donald. Which is why they brought Manafort in , he had expertise in dealing with convention issues. And he left soon afterwards.

    So far the D's have followed the same playbook as the R's did in 2016. Political ego's keep splitting the moderate vote. Maybe Pete got offered a spot in the administration, dropping out   before any of the others is odd, he has more delegates than most of those remaining.

    And in the end, The Bern may turn out to be as formidable as The Donald did, surprising everyone.

    Parent

    WOW (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jmacWA on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 07:27:20 AM EST
    You really think that the Republican party has not done itself irreparable damage by electing tRump?

    Parent
    At first (none / 0) (#36)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 07:26:37 PM EST
    I thought they did.
    Now, not so much.
    Cleared out a lot inside power players, out for special interests. Notice how many resigned from Congress, they lost power in the party, their payday was over...(Paul Ryan)

    I appreciate the real attempt
    At Border Security (now that is real important when facing a pandemic)
    But mostly, the thing Trump has railed against for 30 years.....Free Trade  (Crux of Republicanism)
    I think he has shown "free trade" was not fair trade. Republican insiders, Chamber of Commerce, made out with "free trade", American workers, not so much. Trump is for free trade that is fair trade. So getting new blood in the party, breaking up , to some degree, the old power brokers, yes a good thing for the party.
    I see the power brokers in the DNC are trying to hold on at all costs, and not trying to hide it. Not really fond of that alternative either though...The Squad.

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by FlJoe on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 07:44:52 PM EST
    hope this makes sense in the original Russian.
    WTF? (Crux of Republicanism), does that work against vampires as well as libtards?

    And why the heck are you so afraid of "The Squad" or is some kind of incel fetish that I rather not hear about?

    Parent

    Not exactly (none / 0) (#38)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 07:53:35 PM EST
    Fond of their policy prescriptions

    Would prefer the old school establishment Dem's over The Squad

    Parent

    Have you (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 06:31:10 AM EST
    given it a thought that maybe we aren't going to lie down and let Putin take over our party like you guys did?

    The GOP is crashing and burning over having Trump as president. You're just going to have to wait for November to see the smoldering embers.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#34)
    by NoSides on Mon Mar 02, 2020 at 02:53:52 PM EST
    completely with what you wrote. I am, admittedly, pushing for - hoping for - a Sanders candidacy.

    I think that Sanders will indeed be as formidable as The Donald was - and I think he will win the electoral college to boot.

    I keep thinking about the American people being offered the choice of someone pushing for Medicare for all v/s someone who is obviously tied to big pharma and the rest - and someone who offers to free young people from the burden of owing many many thousands of student loans before they have even had a chance to breathe - v/s someone who could care less... I just think landslide for Sanders.

    One more thought: Did you see that thing about Biden reminiscing about how he got arrested while trying to get to see Nelson Mandela? And how, according to Biden, Mandela even thanked him for it... And how, in fact, it never happened?

    He is either delusional, or he just lied.
    I shudder to think that he would be presented as the alternative to Donald.


    Parent