home

Curfews Coming

The City and County of Denver has just announced a curfew for tonight. Appearing on my cell phone:

I don't mind the curfew as much as I do the end of social distancing in Denver. (From today at the state capitol).

The past two days most of the protesters, even in the afternoon, wore masks. On Friday afternoon, at least when they approached the corner of my house, many seemed to stay more than 6 feet apart. [More...]

I know the media and activist groups think the protesters who come out at night are organized white supremacists and anarchists. That may be true, but since Denver is demographically so white, and the protesters reflect that, I'm not sure how to discern their motive (other than of course if they have body tattoos or are wearing messaged clothing that gives them away.)

We all know the danger of judging someone by their looks. That said, almost all of the protesters I've seen here in Denver from my balcony and on TV seem young. Yesterday, a lot of them seemed to meander about rather than follow a path to a known destination, which makes me wonder whether some of them just want to socialize and get out of the house now that the stay at home order has been lifted and the weather is beautiful. Since there's really no place to go like the old days (bars, nightclubs, etc.), joining a protest for a good and much-needed cause may seem like the thing to do. (it's also the only action in town.)

Of course, there's no way to verify my suspicions. But just from that one picture above taken by someone this afternoon at the state capital, I do have one request:

< George Floyd: Protests, Violence and Official Inaction | Ozarks Pool Party-Goer Contracts COVID-19 >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    About those white instigators (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:13:17 PM EST
    Lancaster officials say group of armed, white men infiltrated protests, instigated violence Sunday.

    A small group of armed men, possibly white nationalists, infiltrated Sunday's protests in downtown Lancaster to instigate violence during a largely peaceful demonstration, city officials said Monday.

    Mayor Danene Sorace at a hurriedly called new conference asked local demonstrators to cancel further protests that could entice outside agitators to return and incite violence.

    Any time officers were pelted with rocks or bottles Sunday, it came from Caucasian men in the crowd, police Chief Jarrad Berkihiser said at the news conference.



    Also (none / 0) (#72)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    this
    Colorado police seized military-style weapons and ammunition from so-called "boogaloo bois" who took part in weekend protests of police brutality.

    Chevy McGee, a 20-year-old anti-government activist from Fort Collins, was stopped Friday evening near a downtown Denver protest, and police said they were called to investigate whether someone in McGee's group was wearing a plate-carrier vest, reported the Colorado Times Recorder.



    Parent
    Forgot (none / 0) (#74)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:09:17 PM EST
    the link BTW I love the name, straight out of a pulp fiction novel.

    Parent
    That description fits ANTIFA (none / 0) (#187)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 11:13:27 AM EST
    To a tee.

    Parent
    Does it? (5.00 / 3) (#188)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 12:15:19 PM EST
    Antifa don't usually wear body armor and wear guns on their hips - that's more the snowflake, scared, compensating rightwing type.

    But maybe you're right.  Guess we should start profiling white males for a change.

    Parent

    Maybe that was ANTIFA (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 12:34:36 PM EST
    at the Michigan state capital and we just didn't realize it at the time.

     

    Parent

    There is this (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    The tweets were traced to (none / 0) (#191)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 01:21:47 PM EST
    a fake account set up by members of Identity Evropa, a little white nationalist, antisemitic bund that Abdul probably sells a lot of guns to.

    Parent
    Anyone know how I can obtain (5.00 / 4) (#76)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:10:57 PM EST
    an ANTIFA membership card? I want to put it in my wallet next to my ACLU membership card.

    Has anyone attempted to explain to the orange moron that there isn't an organization called "ANTIFA".

    I wish some (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:50:57 PM EST
    Reporter would have the cojones to ask Trump, next time he rails about antifa, "So could you then tell us, Mr. President, if that means that you are pro fascist?"

    Parent
    Oh well (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:18:16 PM EST
    That explains it

    President Trump cleared out peaceful protesters for his photo op because he was upset about media coverage of him being taken to an underground bunker at the White House on Friday night as protesters gathered, CNN reports.

    Trump told aides he wanted people to see him outside of the White House gates.

    What a small small man.

    Yes, he is. (none / 0) (#168)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:32:40 PM EST
    Even the Chinese were mocking him (none / 0) (#169)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:34:42 PM EST
    Hu Xijin, editor in chief of state-controlled tabloid the Global Times, wrote: "Mr. President, don't go hide behind the Secret Service... Go to talk to the demonstrators seriously. Negotiate with them, just like you urged Beijing to talk to Hong Kong rioters."


    Parent
    GOP stalwart George Will has seen enough. (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:47:14 PM EST
    "We cannot know all the measures necessary to restore the nation's domestic health and international standing, but we know the first step: Senate Republicans must be routed, as condign punishment for their Vichyite collaboration."

    The operative word here is "Enough."

    FYI (none / 0) (#1)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 06:10:53 PM EST
    AP is reporting lots of misinformation around.

    A lot of it seems to be on subjects that would benefit the left.  There is a pix of DC (initials of the cop who's name we should stop using) standing close to Trump has been outed as fake by USA Today.

    It is so easy to edit vids and pix now that you almost need to fact check everything you see.  I have seen the claim that white supremacists are as guilty as Antifa but so far all the arrests in Minn have no white supremacists being arrested, yet.

    Not saying both sides may not be guilty but when MSM outlets like the AP and USA Today warn not to jump the gun and are pointing fingers at the left way more than the right it is worth noting.

    Walz has said more than once is that he is in regular contact with the feds and once mentioned NSA specifically.  He claimed the outside agitators were using radios to coordinate their actions and that the feds had been listening to these radio conversations. He clearly did not wish to reveal methods and sources.  I have little doubt Walz and Frey would have no problem saying there was hard evidence of white supremacists involvement if they had any.  On the other hand he did indicate drug cartels do seem to be involved.

    Donald Trump is toast (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:43:39 PM EST
    after this. Now the Dems just need to bring in someone other than Biden who can restore some hope.

    Parent
    Disagree with both claims (none / 0) (#8)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 12:12:34 AM EST
    The dems are stuck with Biden; even if he forgets to go to the convention someone will drag him there.

    Lots of analysts view the riots as helping Trump with women voters in the burbs who simply want peace and quiet.  Hard for me to see how Trump does not win going away.

    With the huge show of force in Minn putting an end to the riots there after the previous nights when the pols treated the rioters with kid gloves it seems a big show of force is the best way to deal with chaos; something Trump advocated from the start.  Same with the crowd at the White House getting away with a lot last night compared to tonight with a larger buffer and a much larger police and secret service contingent.

    Looks to me like what happened after the mess in 1964 with dem supporters running wild in the streets and Nixon cruising to an easy win.

    Bottom line is riots help the party opposed to riots.

    Parent

    Bottom line is.. (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by jondee on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:17:40 AM EST
    for whatever obscure cognitive reasons, you're unable to distinguish between people who support peaceful, organized demonstrations and people who support rioting.

    A pretty standard ham-handed, talk radio attempt at smearing Democrats, but it won't wash. What Democratic leaders have been encouraging people to riot and loot? Nobody.

    And just to shore up the rest of your Rush-on-Oxycontin rewriting of history, '64 was Johnson vs Goldwater, and the people "running wild" in '68, far from being "dem supporters", condemned both establishment parties and nominated a pig for President.

    Parent

    Interesting bit of revisionist history there. (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Chuck0 on Sun May 31, 2020 at 10:31:01 AM EST
    I suppose you call the US Civil War, the "War of Northern Aggression" and claim it was about states rights.

    The SDS and Yippies were hardly "dem supporters." But even that is irrelevant.

    History has shown that Chicago in August of 1968 was a police riot. The violence was started by, perpetuated by and continued by Richard Daley's Chicago police. At his direction.

    The exoneration of the Chicago 7+1 are further evidence of the police riot.

    The Daley's, the Frank Rizzo's, Bull Conner's were all Democrats on the wrong side of history. This will prove to be true as well for your orange clown and his administration as well.

    Parent

    Los. Angeles riots (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Sun May 31, 2020 at 11:21:17 AM EST
    started in late April of 1992,  following the acquittal of the police officers in the Rodney King beating case.  Lasted 5 days, 63 deaths, massive property damage.  BillClinton defeated the incumbent president, George HW Bush, in  November 1992.

    Parent
    And not coincidentally, who was Poppy's Attorney General at the time?

    Parent
    The seminal example (none / 0) (#22)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2020 at 05:05:10 PM EST
    is of course Napoleon Bonaparte after the French Revolution.

    The Right seems really happy about the chaos because it means, in their view, they win the election.  We'll see.

    And what about George Floyd?  That is where the focus should be.

    Parent

    The current administration (none / 0) (#28)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:09:24 PM EST
    is generally blamed for the current state of affairs.....

    Here, Trump is pouring gasoline on the fire.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#13)
    by FlJoe on Sun May 31, 2020 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    agree that applying blame now is jumping the gun, so why is tRump blaming the left with scant evidence? I have not seen the MSM blaming the left way more than the right(aside from the correlation with the "left" leaning demonstrations).

    Antifa or Boogaloo Boi this seems to prove that there is some cold blooded provocation going on

    Speculation about the identity of the so-called "Umbrella Man"--captured on video using a hammer to smash windows of a Minneapolis AutoZone during Wednesday's protests--have swirled since a video of him spread online, sparking claims he is an undercover police officer directed to stir up trouble, which local departments quickly denied.


    Parent
    In NYC (none / 0) (#2)
    by CST on Sat May 30, 2020 at 06:37:25 PM EST
    The photos show most of the protesters wearing masks.  Very few of the cops were wearing masks.

    It's striking.

    The cops in the video (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:41:46 PM EST
    at Times Square were particularly egregious -- most of the NYPD there were not wearing masks and protesters without masks came right up to them. No wonder NYPD has so many cops who have gotten COVID-19. Really appalling. The last thing New York needs right now is another major outbreak.

    Parent
    Things got ugly this evening in Philadelphia (none / 0) (#3)
    by Peter G on Sat May 30, 2020 at 06:38:59 PM EST
    after a large peaceful protest (which complied with public health advice also) broke up. Windows broken at City Hall and in Center City businesses, including Starbucks and banks. Some looting. At least two police cars burned. Curfew to go into effect at 8 pm EDT. Very sad.

    they just showed something big (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:42:39 PM EST
    burning there, MSNBC host said it might be an apartment building but I've seen no mention of that.

    Parent
    Things got lit up in Harrisburg as well. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Chuck0 on Sun May 31, 2020 at 12:06:06 AM EST
    Mayor announced a curfew. Got a feeling things will get worse over the weekend. This is a long simmering pot boiling over.

    Parent
    Here's a video from Denver (none / 0) (#180)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 01:01:21 AM EST
    Police (none / 0) (#181)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 08:18:55 AM EST
    Attack Australian news crews during their zealous attack on peaceful protesters in order to provide sound effects and clear the way for Trumps photo op at the church yesterday. Unnecessary use of excessive force by one of the "few bad apples."

    Australia probes US police assault on its journalists

    Parent

    Sometimes good things happen (none / 0) (#182)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 09:21:45 AM EST
    On the plus side (none / 0) (#10)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:41:06 AM EST
    When did it become bad (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:42:39 PM EST
    To be anti fascist

    It is good to be anti-fascist. What is bad (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:57:26 PM EST
    is to act on the belief that in America, today, the only effective or genuine way to be anti-fascist is to use (and provoke) personal violence against those you perceive to harbor, promote, glorify or exemplify fascist beliefs, institutions and actions.

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 03:24:53 PM EST
    Would note your rating

    Parent
    I feel safer already (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 03:33:25 PM EST
    President Trump tweeted that the U.S. government would be "designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization," Politico reports.

    "There were just two problems with that. First, he doesn't appear to have the legal authority to do so. And second, it's by no means clear the loosely defined group of radical activists is an organization at all."



    Parent
    You would almost think (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 03:03:07 PM EST
    Fascists might be funding the anti fascists

    It's what I would do.

    Parent

    What I think bears emphasizing (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 04:16:33 PM EST
    is that the number of folks who identify and act as "antifa" is minuscule relative to the "Second Amendment" white supremacist wackos who openly carry guns for the purpose of intimidating those who disagree with them, and that the number of persons attacked and injured (and in some instances killed) by the latter far exceeds the number of those injured by any "antifa." And that the overwhelming majority -- that is, over 99%, I'm sure -- of the current protesters, even the violent minority of them, have nothing to do with "antifa." Discussing them is a distraction; I'm sure an intentional one.

    Parent
    'Antifa' is a term invoked ... (none / 0) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:51:57 PM EST
    ... by certain individuals who've clearly baffled themselves with their own bullschitt.

    Parent
    When the administration in power (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Chuck0 on Sun May 31, 2020 at 03:40:01 PM EST
    Is run by a bunch of closet fascists.

    Parent
    A lot of people are saying (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Sun May 31, 2020 at 04:23:22 PM EST
    that the Administration is not only out of the closet, but that they flung the doors off their hinges in coming out.

    When Peter Baker, NYTimes Washington Bureau Chief and Trump apologist writes this for the NYTimes front, above the fold, page  (Sunday, May 31):

    "...Over the past week, America reeled from 100,000 pandemic deaths, 40 million out of work and cities in flames over a brutal police killing of a subdued black man. But Mr. Trump was on the attack against China, WHO, Big Tech, Barack Obama, a cable t.v. host and the mayor of a riot-torn city.

    ..While other presidents seek to cool the situation in tinderbox moments like this, Mr. Trump plays with matches.  He roars into any melee he finds, encouraging street uprising against public health measures advanced by his own government, hurling made-up murder charges against a critic, accusing his predecessor of unspecified crimes, vowing to crack down on a social media company that angered him and then seemingly threatening to meet violence with violence in Minneapolis.

    As several cities erupted in street protests, some of them resulting in clashes with the police, Mr. Trump made no appeal for calm. Instead...he blames Democrats, ..calling on "liberal governors and mayors" to get tough on the crowds, threatening to intervene with the unlimited power of our military and even summoned his own supporters to mount a counter-demonstration."

    Some MAGAs appear to comply.

    Parent

    Hey, does anybody (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 05:41:30 PM EST
    Know where Erik Prince is right now?

    Wearing a mask and (none / 0) (#25)
    by MKS on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:01:58 PM EST
    in the crowd.....doing....?

    Parent
    This (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:11:15 PM EST
    The New York Times
    Web results
    Erik Prince Recruits Ex-Spies to Help Infiltrate Liberal Groups
    where is erik prince from www.nytimes.com
    Mar 7, 2020 · WASHINGTON -- Erik Prince, the security contractor with close ties to the Trump administration, has in recent years helped recruit former American and British spies for secretive....



    Parent
    Watching Killing Eve? (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:25:11 PM EST
    I'm excited about the finale

    Parent
    FOX news reporting (none / 0) (#24)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:00:46 PM EST
    there was an incident on interstate when protesters were trying to shut it down and a tractor trailer truck went into the crowd.  No word on if it was intentional or an accident.

    Should have mentioned it was in Minneapolis (none / 0) (#26)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:03:27 PM EST
    still looking for a link.

    Parent
    Local CBS (none / 0) (#27)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:05:52 PM EST
    The driver had just made a delivery (none / 0) (#186)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 10:40:41 AM EST

    The local pols and commentators owe him an apology. The much wished for white supremacist he is not. Reportedly the only driver with the sand to make a delivery to a black owned gas station at considerable risk.

    Parent
    Good grief. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:32:11 PM EST
    Brooklyn lawyers charged in NYPD Molotov cocktail attack.  Doesn't sound like the typical right wing extremists.

    If that doesn't tell you a lot about how angry (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 07:32:56 PM EST
    a lot of young black folks are, and how widespread that anger is and how deep it goes, I don't know what would.

    Parent
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 07:49:55 PM EST
    "Yes, protests often are used as an excuse for some to take advantage, just as when fans celebrating a hometown sports team championship burn cars and destroy storefronts. I don't want to see stores looted or even buildings burn. But African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible -- even if you're choking on it -- until you let the sun in. Then you see it's everywhere. As long as we keep shining that light, we have a chance of cleaning it wherever it lands. But we have to stay vigilant, because it's always still in the air."



    Parent
    Worth reading the whole thing from Kareem (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 08:40:52 PM EST
    ("People Pushed to the Edge"), which is here.

    Parent
    Not sure about anger (1.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun May 31, 2020 at 11:34:49 PM EST
    It does say something about people consumed with hate.

    Parent
    Try and keep up (none / 0) (#37)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:41:51 PM EST
    they were not young black kids, they were white lawyers.

    Parent
    Of course, they must be white (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 11:04:01 PM EST
    because they are (were) lawyers, and graduated from very good schools. Is that your logic? Because their photos say otherwise.

    Parent
    My half bad (none / 0) (#42)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 11:22:00 PM EST
    The black guy was an Ivy League grad who seemed to be in his 30s, the girl was white.

    Neither was what I would call a young black male, but maybe 30 is young.

    In any case I sorta get your point that one of the two was not white.

    Parent

    You sorta got the point (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:55:02 AM EST
    about a black man not being a white man. Well done.

    At least you're trying to keep up.

    Parent

    The "girl" in question (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 09:21:24 AM EST
    is a 31-year-old (young, by my standards) woman, also a lawyer, named Urooj Rahman, who appears to have a light-brown skin tone. Which has nothing to do with acknowledging the anger and frustration that young black people feel.

    Parent
    They appear unable to understand (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 09:31:03 AM EST
    Most of the demonstrators are in fact white.

    Parent
    Keep (back)pedaling (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 10:04:56 AM EST
    Urooj Rahman is "white"?

    Heh.

    I did appreciate you advising PeterG to "try to keep up".  Best laugh this week.  Like Trump telling Obama he should start working out.

    Parent

    Ohh.. a mistake like that.. (none / 0) (#75)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:09:18 PM EST
    must have been quite embarrassing for you.  I hope that Vlad wasn't too pissed.

    Parent
    Wha????? (none / 0) (#39)
    by desertswine on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:52:08 PM EST
    Doesn't (none / 0) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:44:04 PM EST
    sound like you typical antifa either, it would make sense if they were one or the other, this is just more evidence of a world gone mad.


    Parent
    St. John's Church (none / 0) (#36)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:36:31 PM EST
    set on fire by the rioters in DC.

    This is the end of any rational support for protests.  No way to justify burning a church.

    Did you just conflate ... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Yman on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:49:57 PM EST
    ... a "fire by rioters" with "rational support for protests"?

    Heh.

    Parent

    Yes because (1.00 / 2) (#40)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 10:11:39 PM EST
    the protesters are giving cover to the arsonist and looters.  If the protesters are too stupid to realize this then they are too stupid to protest.

    The Democratic mayors of big cities have been begging protestors to stay at home and to obey the curfews.  But the stupid protestors still go out and give cover to the arsonists and looters.

    At this point protestors are aiding and abetting criminals.

    Parent

    Didn't you claim to be ... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 10:08:57 AM EST
    ... a lawyer?

    At this point protestors are aiding and abetting criminals.

    Because I don't know any 1Ls who wouldn't be embarrassed by that ridiculous claim.

    Parent

    Everything (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:47:33 AM EST
    would have been fine

    "Stupid" is a dangerous word for a ridiculous troll such as yourself.

    Parent

    Stupid is as stupid does (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:54:52 AM EST
    From the playbook

    "It's difficult to divine the thinking of any politician,....

    [or internet troll]

    ... and especially difficult to figure out what Trump is thinking. But best we can tell -- from his public tweets and the aides around him -- he believes a majority of Americans should be more focused on the chaos they're seeing on their screens than they are on racism and the systematic mistreatment of black and brown people."



    Parent
    Aiding and abetting criminals. (none / 0) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 10:24:58 AM EST
    Yes.  Lock'em up.   Meanwhile, the three police officers assisting Derek Chauvin have not been charged.  

    Parent
    Keisha Bottoms said (none / 0) (#53)
    by ragebot on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 10:47:53 AM EST
    in response to a question about why things were getting better in Atlanta.

    Last night was not as bad as Friday night. I think there were several reasons for that. Of one, many people just decided to- to heed my advice and stay home. Also, there were many more- much more support that we had for our officers last night with the National Guard. And we also had a curfew last night, a 9:00 p.m. curfew and so that helped tremendously.

    The key point being "STAY HOME".

    She went on to say

    And when you have violent eruptions like we've seen across America, then we lose sight of even what we are talking about. Yesterday, all we talked about was how our cities were erupting across America, but we weren't even talking about George Floyd and so many others who have been killed in this country. So that's my concern about what happens when we get lost in the violence. We- we've got to be more organized in the same way that we were during the civil rights movement and many other challenges that we faced in this country. I understand the frustration. The frustration is real and the anger is warranted. But the violent eruptions won't offer us any solutions right now.

    Like it or not it has reached the point where the results of the legit protesters efforts are becoming counter productive to their cause.  Keisha Bottoms is not the only person who has noted the arson and looting sucks up all the oxygen in the room crowding out everything else.

    But it may be the posters here who have been bashing my posts disagree with Keisha and think she is wrong telling protesters to "STAY HOME".  Point is when high profile black pols are telling protestors to "STAY HOME" it should be obvious to everyone there is a problem with protesting right now.

    Parent

    no one is surprised (none / 0) (#55)
    by CST on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:02:48 AM EST
    That the people in government and the people in power don't want protests. Next you'll cite Bill DeBlasio's defense of the NYPD - which he is getting roundly criticized for - as evidence that the public is changing their opinion.

    Here's an opinion - the coward in chief is hiding from the public and no amount of people protesting on TV is going to make people forget that he is a trainwreck.  

    Remember when the "caravans" were gonna win the 2018 midterms for Republicans?  How'd that work out?  There are just as many videos being made and going around of cops inflicting violence on peaceful civilians.  You think those videos won't get played in the suburbs too?  Maybe you'll start to care when you're the one getting run over by a horse from behind.

    Parent

    Yes, and responsible (none / 0) (#58)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:39:50 AM EST
    and concerned people no longer in government as well---President Obama has called for an end to the violence.  And, Joe Biden has provided a pitch-perfect call for peace and justice.

    Trump has offered no calming message.  Rather, he has inflamed the.situation, calling mayors and governors on the front lines weak.  And, the unenlightened President turned off the White House lights and crawled into a spider hole deep under the building.  The first time the White House lights have been turned off since 1889 (electrified in 1881).  Nobody is home America.

    Parent

    Yes, and responsible (none / 0) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:39:50 AM EST
    and concerned people no longer in government as well---President Obama has called for an end to the violence.  And, Joe Biden has provided a pitch-perfect call for peace and justice.

    Trump has offered no calming message.  Rather, he has inflamed the.situation, calling mayors and governors on the front lines weak.  And, the unenlightened President turned off the White House lights and crawled into a spider hole deep under the building.  The first time the White House lights have been turned off since 1889 (electrified in 1881).  Nobody is home America.

    Parent

    Good idea (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:43:03 AM EST
    "Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz (D) said that the state's attorney general will take the lead in any prosecutions related to the death of George Floyd, a black man who was in handcuffs when a Minneapolis police officer pressed his knee into his neck as he pleaded that he couldn't breathe," the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports.

    "Walz's decision to have Attorney General Keith Ellison (D) take the lead comes after requests from activists, some City Council members and a civil rights group, who said putting Ellison on the case would send a strong message that justice will be vigorously pursued. Walz said Ellison has the experience needed to lead the prosecution."



    While I don't have a problem with this move (none / 0) (#54)
    by ragebot on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 10:58:19 AM EST
    from what I have seen the case seems clear cut.  While there may be a tiny bit of mitigation about Floyd's health being a factor in his death there is no doubt Chauvin is guilty of something.  Charging with manslaughter and murder seems to cover it; not to mention charges from the feds.

    I have little doubt he will be convicted and spend time in prison no matter who is prosecuting.  My only concern is that if Walz and Ellison chase headlines and try and send too much of a message it may result in grounds for an appeal.

    Parent

    The cop had his hand (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:14:27 PM EST
    in his pocket while he was slowly killing Floyd.

    Seems like Murder I to me.

    Parent

    The Hennepin Count Medical Examiner ... (none / 0) (#159)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:58:12 PM EST
    ... has classified George Floyd's death as a homicide.

    Parent
    See my comment (none / 0) (#172)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:53:09 PM EST
    #143, about an hour and a half ago.

    Parent
    Tom Cotton wants his Kent State moment. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:31:43 AM EST
    "If local law enforcement is overwhelmed and needs backup, let's see how tough these Antifa terrorists are when they're facing off with the 101st Airborne Division.

    We need to have zero tolerance for this destruction."

    Quite a Senator you've got there Howdy.


    Tell me about it (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:37:49 AM EST
    Both are bottom of the barrel.  The other is content to do it quietly for the most part.

    I have been telling people for years

    WATCH OUT FOR THIS COTTON GUY

    He is a dangerous man and he has ambitions that go far beyond this state.  He will run for President in 24.  I would bet on it.  And he should be taken as seriously as a heart attack.

    Decorated veteran.  Harvard law.

    Parent

    And btw (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:44:17 AM EST
    He later amplified his remarks: "And, if necessary, the 10th Mountain, 82nd Airborne, 1st Cav, 3rd Infantry -- whatever it takes to restore order. No quarter for insurrectionists, anarchists, rioters, and looters."

    Historically, "no quarter" means that you kill people rather than arrest them. It's a war crime.



    Parent
    Not to mention (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:57:20 AM EST
    also a violation of posse comitatus (military not to be used for domestic law enforcement)

    Parent
    I think that's why there is talk of (none / 0) (#69)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:35:19 PM EST
    invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807. From what I've read, this allows troops to operate the US. I am certainly no legal scholar so I don't know how this squares with the Posse Comitatus Act (signed in 1878). I am more familiar with Posse Comitatus.

    Whatever, this will make a volatile situation more so. This is the exact scenario the "boogaloo" people are looking for.

    I predicted civil war quite some time ago under the orange clown. This would be a step in that direction. It certainly would provoke me into making some tough choices about my future in this country.

    Parent

    Yes, Cotton is (none / 0) (#104)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:44:12 PM EST
    malignantly smart.  It is unlikely that the line-up in "no quarter for insurrectionists, anarchists, rioters, and looters" is inconsequential. Sort of, which of the following is dissimilar, apple, orange, pear, truck?

    The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prohibits the president from using the Army to enforce or otherwise execute the law....without Congressional authorization.  However, there is the standing source of Congressional authorization, The Insurrection Act of 1807, which AG Barr would find to be fascist-friendly.

    Parent

    Just said on MSNBC (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 04:28:22 PM EST
    This is "absolutely being considered" and is "very much on the table"

    Parent
    Do they really want another Kent State? (none / 0) (#140)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:09:46 PM EST
    As I recall, that event was the end of any real support for the Vietnam War....

    But these guys are excited, and really seem to want to shove people around and shoot a few for good measure.....

    Parent

    Yes, he (none / 0) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:22:39 PM EST
    is dangerous and ambitious. I remain startled by the insolence, if not "mutiny", of the open letter he as a freshman senator, and joined by 46 Republican senators, send to the leaders of Iran undercutting the foreign policy initiatives of the president.

    2024 will a competition of senior deplorables.  While Cotton has all the charisma of a turd in a punch bowl, that may be just what the wingers will be high on, after an empathetic and caring Biden Administration.  But, Cotton will, among others, need to contend with the smirking horror that is Pompeo---also a veteran (first in his class at West Point) and Harvard law. But, Cotton may have the edge.  Pompeo may be Raptured by then. Or, been cut off of funds by his patron, Koch Industries ---sort of the same for a Republican.

    Parent

    I agree except for the charisma part (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:27:03 PM EST
    You are dead wrong.  He has a lot of the kind of charisma the right loves.

    He is very smart and articulate and very good on tv.

    Parent

    I would say (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:00:09 PM EST
    Think of Tom Cotton as a dangerously intelligent Trump.  Someone just as soulless and empty, just as despotic and authoritarian but not so stupid they step on their own d!ck 5 times a day.

    Parent
    He is Mr. Frown (none / 0) (#97)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:12:55 PM EST
    Not as t.v. savvy imo.....

    Parent
    Because Trump (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 04:14:16 PM EST
    Smiles so much?

    Parent
    Since the day he took office (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:40:54 AM EST
    Cheeto Baboon has done everything in his power to stoke unrest and whip up anger.  He wanted a war.

    I wonder if these nights hunkered in the White house bunker he might ponder if one might be careful what they wish for?

    Rhetorical question.

    Unraveling (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:21:54 PM EST
    This is amazing.  I find reading it strangely soothing.

    CNN obtained a portion of the audio, during which Trump is heard lashing out at the state leaders:

    "What happened in the state of Minnesota ... They took over the police department. The police were running down the street with sirens blazing, the rest of them running, it was on-camera ... I have never seen anything like it and the whole world was laughing ... All of a sudden and I said you got to use the National Guard, and they didn't at first and then they did. I don't know what it was, it was the third night, one night, those guys walked through that stuff like it was butter. They walked right through and they haven't had any problems. They know they're not going to go there, they're going to go to some other place.

    Once you go down and you dominate it, you take the worst place and you made it-- they didn't even cover it last night ... because you dominated, you dominated. What happens in New York, I have to tell you, I lived in Manhattan, what's going on in Manhattan? I have no idea. New York's finest ... I don't know what's happening in Manhattan but it's terrible. Because it's Manhattan it gets a lot of press. So they really spend a lot of time on it. But New York is gonna have to have to toughen up and we'll send you National Guard if you want. You have the largest police force in the country, 40,000 people are on the staff. What's going on in New York is terrible, it's terrible. All the places. What happened last night in Los Angeles ... is terrible. Those dominations, you have to dominate them."

    CNN's Kaitlyn Collins then claimed the president told governors to imprison violent protesters, "otherwise they are going to look like jerks."

    I find it's best read aloud with feeling.

    you can also listen

    I expect (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:23:46 PM EST
    Dramatic readings of this soon

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#70)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:46:20 PM EST
    another Drunk tRump episode there are a lot of hilarious lip syncs out there that show the pure inanity of his words.

    Parent
    Christopher Walken (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 12:51:04 PM EST
    I want to hear Christopher Walken read it.  

    Tho a very good Bill Hader  Christopher Walken impression would be good too.

    Parent

    Dugout Don.. (none / 0) (#73)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:05:46 PM EST
    is tough when he's in his bunker, or on the phone.

    Parent
    Struck me more hysterical (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:22:35 PM EST
    than tough.  That's jus me

    Parent
    Oh he's unhinged for sure. (none / 0) (#79)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:39:54 PM EST
    Nobody does unhinged (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:40:53 PM EST
    Like Christopher Walken

    Parent
    Seems this (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:52:24 PM EST
    was just before Putin's pep talk this morning.

    Parent
    LA County had countywide 6pm to 6am curfew (none / 0) (#78)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:37:30 PM EST
    last night. Seemed odd, because the curfew was specific to particular cities w/in the county the preceding night. Apparently they were responding to social media. Beverly Hills and Santa Monica curfews start at 1pm today.

    1pm in the biz districts, 4pm citywide... (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:42:16 PM EST
    6 to 6 again tonight in LA County (none / 0) (#85)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:44:04 PM EST
    Asphyxiation (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:42:13 PM EST
    An independent autopsy commissioned by George Floyd's family determined the cause of his death was "asphyxiation from sustained pressure," the Washington Post reports.

    The autopsy contradicts preliminary findings from the Hennepin County medical examiner, who found "no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxiation or strangulation,"



    Take a breath America (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:50:32 PM EST
    Take a breath for George.

    Brilliant.

    Parent

    This is bad (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:52:40 PM EST
    This means that light at the end of the tunnel might be a train

    Parent
    Seemed pretty clear to me by the video. (none / 0) (#91)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:01:24 PM EST
    Makes me wonder what would cause the disparity in ME reports.

    Incompetence? Politics/job preservation?

    They must have expected that the family would get their own autopsy...

    Parent

    Sadly (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:04:34 PM EST
    I don't think they would have that much reason to think the family would get their own autopsy.

    Which is a indication of how little they fear consequences.

    This event is like lightening striking.  Happens every day but not often filmed.

    Parent

    I would add (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:09:21 PM EST
    EVEN after this became an event they thought they could get away with it.

    We waited for that first report.  McBain quoted from it.

    They are (possibly were) not worried about this.

    Parent

    video was released the day of (none / 0) (#99)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:13:20 PM EST
    violent protests the day after

    But, maybe the powers that be are that stupid.

    Parent

    Hopefully (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:15:56 PM EST
    Not anymore

    Parent
    Dr. Baden said Floyd (none / 0) (#96)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:11:50 PM EST
    Link
    had no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death. ... He was in good health.

    The Hennipen County Examiner said Floyd had coronary artery disease and hypertension in a preliminary report.

    Should be interesting to see how this plays out.  I think it might be easier to get a murder charge if asphyxiation is the cause of death.  

    Parent

    I meant murder coviction (none / 0) (#98)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:13:12 PM EST
    Pathologist/scieftific clarification (none / 0) (#107)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 04:38:48 PM EST
    may bring us a better understanding of the preliminary autopsy and the independent one.  Perhaps they can be reconciled.

    For instance, the preliminary autopsy indicated no traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.  It also included an assessment of coronary artery and hypertensive disease.  

    The independent autopsy findings were asphyxia due to sustained pressure to the neck that impeded blood flow to the 46-year old's brain, while the weight on his back impeded his ability to breathe.

    Apparently, neither finding indicated traumatic injury to the neck, as might be expected from hanging or strangulation.  The restricted blood flow/oxygen to the brain may have been a result of pressure on the carotid arteries, and, as indicated, the pressure on the back. The resulting condition is the deprivation of oxygen causing unconsciousness and death.  Cardio-vascular issues that may have existed may have come into play if there was evidence of cerebral accident, e.g., stroke but that was not mentioned.

    The preliminary autopsy oddly included "potential intoxicants" as an aggravating factor without proof. Perhaps, behavior reported by the police resulted in that inclusion, but that should have awaited the blood test results, which usually takes some time. This, post-mortem speculation, in my view, may be a point for challenge.  

    Parent

    The business of pressure on his back (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 04:55:05 PM EST
    From knees on his back

    Implicates the others in whole news way.  Seems to me.

    Parent

    CNN (none / 0) (#108)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 04:54:49 PM EST
    now reporting Medial Examiner is calling it homicide.

    Parent
    P Wire (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:16:22 PM EST
    An updated official autopsy released by the Hennepin County medical examiner also determined that the manner of George Floyd's death was "homicide," ruling it was caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdued, restraint, and neck compression."



    Parent
    Is that weird (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:18:50 PM EST
    It's sounds like "law enforcement subdued, restraint, and neck compression" would have been no prob without his pesky poorly timed heart attack

    Parent
    As used by a medical examiner, the term (none / 0) (#143)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:38:14 PM EST
    "homicide" is widely, if not almost universally misunderstood. It only means "caused by another person." In an autopsy, the death is described as either homicide, suicide, accident, or natural causes. "Homicide" in this context does not mean "criminal." That is not a medical examiner's call.

    Parent
    The latest from the Hennepin Medical Examiner (none / 0) (#163)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:14:18 PM EST
    Link
    Says  fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use contributed to Floyd's death.

    I'd still like to know why he fell ( :30 mark of this video)
    Was he intoxicated or having health issues at that point or did he simply trip stepping down from the curb?

    Parent

    Try again (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:25:30 PM EST
    I understand why you're trying to blame the victim, but that's not what the document says.  It lists it as an "other significant condition".  Nowhere does it say it contributed to his death.

    I'd still like to know why conservatives feel such a need to attack dead crime victims.

    Parent

    Correction (none / 0) (#177)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 10:39:20 PM EST
    The report read...
    Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression

    Manner of death:  Homicide

    How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)

    Other significant conditions: Ateriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use  

    I'm exactly sure what all of that means but I think it means his heart stopped beating during the restraint/neck compression and he had pre existing health conditions and drug use that might have contributed to his death.

    Parent

    The hypoxia (none / 0) (#178)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:03:54 PM EST
    apparently caused cardiopulmonary arrest.

    Parent
    The heart attack "complicated" the (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 11:33:23 PM EST
    police abuse, it says. (Yeah, I'll say.) Mistreatment by the police -- the things that the police did to Floyd -- was the cause of death, the report says, of which "cardiopulmonary arrest" was a mere "complicating factor." That's why the "manner of death" is listed as "homicide" (a death caused by another person). If the cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest that just happened to occur while the deceased was being taken into custody, then the "manner of death" would be "natural causes" rather than "homicide."

    Parent
    Yes, cardiopulmonary arrest (none / 0) (#184)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 10:00:21 AM EST
    Is a bad complication of oxygen deprivation resulting from the sudden injuries inflicted  by the law enforcement officer(s).


    Parent
    Not sure if it was technically (none / 0) (#185)
    by McBain on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 10:18:20 AM EST
    a heart attack.
    A cardiac arrest is different to a heart attack. In a cardiac arrest the heart actually stops beating; whereas in a heart attack the heart normally continues to beat even though the blood supply to the heart is disrupted.

    The ME's use of the word "complicating" is a bit confusing too.  The homicide conclusion helps connect some of dots but it's still vague. Maybe that's normal.

    Parent

    I understand that you found it confusing (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 03:19:34 PM EST
    That's why I explained it for you, based on criminal defense lawyer trainings given by professional medical examiners and pathologists on how to understand autopsies.

    Parent
    It was a preliminary report. (none / 0) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:02:09 PM EST
    The Hennepin County medical examiner's office has since classified Floyd's death as a homicide.

    Parent
    Amazing (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:45:13 PM EST
    An amateur going to get some views

    IN HIS OWN WORDS

    Opps (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:47:50 PM EST
    Not amateur so much.  But great.

    Parent
    Lawyer question (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 02:59:29 PM EST
    I get no 1st degree murder.  But I keep hearing it should be second.  Not third.

    These arguments seem to make more sense to me.

    ??

    An experienced Minnesota criminal lawyer (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:11:15 PM EST
    with help from Laurence Tribe (perhaps his former prof at Harvard Law? in any event, not a criminal law expert or a Minnesota lawyer) argues that under state law the correct charge would be second degree rather than third. Didn't seem to make a lot of difference to me.

    Parent
    Easier conviction? (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:15:11 PM EST
    PeterG posted a couple days ago (none / 0) (#92)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:04:12 PM EST
    about the charging. iirc, he agreed with 3rd.

    Parent
    I went back to look, because I don't recall (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:23:02 PM EST
    expressing an opinion about the charging decision. I just reported it and explained the elements of the offenses as they appeared to me from a quick reading of the statutes. I did not say I agreed. I am not and never have been a prosecutor. I don't pretend to know what is the best strategy for getting a conviction (which I presume is their goal) from a Twin Cities jury. If the goal of bringing charges is, on the other hand, to send a message, then it does not seem like the best selection. Of course, with the case now transferred to the jurisdiction of AG Ellison, perhaps the initial charges will be superseded.

    Parent
    Well, that explains it. (4.00 / 1) (#156)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:48:43 PM EST
    I didn't recall correctly, sorry to have put words in your mouth. They say your memory is the first thing to go...

    Parent
    No, it's (5.00 / 3) (#173)
    by leap on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:59:01 PM EST
    Now that's funny! (none / 0) (#183)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 09:57:41 AM EST
    The question was not agreeing with third (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:05:56 PM EST
    I agree with third.

    The question was the justification for different charges.

    Parent

    ok. I'll let him answer. (none / 0) (#100)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:14:22 PM EST
    Seems like official (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:24:25 PM EST
    asphyxiation might give it a different color

    Parent
    Maybe so. I'm interested in his response. (none / 0) (#103)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 03:35:44 PM EST
    fwiw, from what I read, the family's autopsy would only be part of any potential criminal trial of the cop if either the prosecution or defense got it admitted as evidence. iow, the County autopsy is the official one.

    However, the family's autopsy would surely be a part of any civil suit by the family against the cop and/or police dept etc.

    Parent

    Overcharged (none / 0) (#110)
    by RCBadger on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:06:54 PM EST
    Chauvin was overcharged.  I think you could make a case for negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter, but that's it

    The doctor grandson of a neighbor thinks that Mr. Floyd was exhibiting signs of excited delirium and that the cops either were not trained or trained very poorly in how to handle it.  He said it was something they see all the time in ERs and that Floyd's behavior was pretty typical of someone who had it.  

    '

    Well, the doctor granson (5.00 / 5) (#113)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:21:33 PM EST
    of my neighbor, who is eminently more qualified than the doctor grandson of your neighbor, says it looks like murder to her.

    Also, the niece of my neighbor on the other side, has a friend who is a dentist, and he tends to agree with that assessment.  He sees this kind of thing all the time.

    Parent

    My (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:25:12 PM EST
    cat's veterinarian suspects rabies (in the cops).

    Parent
    Whatever (none / 0) (#115)
    by RCBadger on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:28:30 PM EST
    You might want to look up excited delirium.  Floyd exhibited the signs.


    Parent
    I know a lot (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:30:51 PM EST
    About excited delirium

    Parent
    Did the delirium (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:33:42 PM EST
    kick-in during the nine minute strangling or before?

    Parent
    The psychiatrist step-daughter ... (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:10:54 PM EST
    ... of my neighbor's cousin (twice-removed) says that that "diagnosis" is beyond delusional.

    Parent
    I've been hearing about excited delerium (none / 0) (#170)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:37:51 PM EST
    and I believe one of the officers statements was Chauvin didn't want to turn Floyd onto his side because he was showing symptoms of excited delirium. However, that goes against what is suggested in this video at 31:45.

    Lots of guesses at this point.  

     

    Parent

    FOUR cops (5.00 / 4) (#174)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 09:17:14 PM EST
    couldn't have just stood him up and put him in the back of the car?

    How weak and helpless are those guys?

    Parent

    That is a good question (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 09:22:44 PM EST
    In more serious news (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:32:03 PM EST
    There's tear gas in Lafayette Park.

    As we wait for Wisdom for the Chimp.

    FROM the Chimp (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:33:34 PM EST
    Will he discuss Law and Order with flash bangs in the BG?

    Parent
    Looks tense in DC. (none / 0) (#120)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:35:14 PM EST
    If they succeed in shutting Trump up (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:39:18 PM EST
    Even temporarily it will be the greatest victory since the French at Austerlitz

    Parent
    Here he (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:39:41 PM EST
    Is

    Parent
    Holy Hell (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:41:46 PM EST
    What a split screen.

    You can hear the screaming

    Parent

    He (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:47:41 PM EST
    fkng timed it.

    Parent
    And to think.. (none / 0) (#130)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:55:10 PM EST
    the Quislings in the Republican party had the perfect opportunity to get rid of this a-hole, and didn't.

    Parent
    Oh, yay (none / 0) (#152)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:38:08 PM EST
    He sure did. Have to have the stage set just right for his reality show performance.

    Parent
    This is a (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:44:04 PM EST
    Disaster for Trump.

    Sorry for the stream of thought.

    Parent

    Trump declares himself Duce. (none / 0) (#125)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:47:23 PM EST
    If he is now Duce, (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:37:45 PM EST
    is this where I get to wish him the same fate as Il Duce? His Mussolini moment as it were?

    Parent
    Except (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:51:44 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure you could almost never hear protesters screaming obscenities in the background of Duce.

    He my well have timed it but to me that was the most laughably impotent performance I ever saw.

    Parent

    tRump (none / 0) (#132)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:00:26 PM EST
    is not even playing to his base anymore, not really, he has now sunk to an audience of one, himself, and of course that audience thought it was magnificent.


    Parent
    what are you watching?? (none / 0) (#128)
    by leap on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:52:27 PM EST
     n/t

    Parent
    All of them (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:53:37 PM EST
    Mostly CNN

    Parent
    Now Duce goes to church (none / 0) (#131)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 05:59:45 PM EST
    to get the endorsement of God.

    I (none / 0) (#133)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:01:27 PM EST
    think you have that backwards.

    Parent
    He finds Two Corinthians (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:02:19 PM EST
    a great source of comfort I'm told.

    Parent
    He had the police (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:03:39 PM EST
    Do this just so he could do this little performance

    His base will love this.  Most others are going to be pretty horrified at the use of that much force and manpower just so he can try to walk like a man.

    This is a big deal.

    I think this is ON.  Now.
    It's on and it won't end well.  For anyone.  Including and possibly especially Duce.

    Parent

    This (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:08:45 PM EST
    is some pretty weird performance art, I halfway expect tRump to unzip his body suit...and out steps Andy Kaufman.

    Parent
    Incredible (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:09:41 PM EST
    I do NOT think this will help him.

    Parent
    Especially (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:14:33 PM EST
    since the protesters looked mostly like the sons and daughters of suburban moms, the very group that he is trying to scare. Not nearly black and brown enough to give his base a hard on.

    Parent
    He holding up a bible (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:05:49 PM EST
    He's holding up a Bible

    Parent
    Bible? I think (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:48:16 PM EST
    it is Mein Kampf.  He did not even go in St, John's, area cleared of protesters with tear gas to show he is not in his spider hole deep beneath the White House.   As a wag noted, every time a Trump goes to Church, an angel has tears of blood.

    Parent
    For a selfie with the crew (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:07:10 PM EST
    In front of a boarded up church.

    Wake me up please.

    Parent

    Are we in Deutschland yet - (none / 0) (#141)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:13:56 PM EST
    Is there an election in our future, or no.

    Parent
    Neither DC's Episcopal bishop ... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:18:09 PM EST
    ... nor the rector of St. John's Church were informed that Trump & Co., LLC were planning to use the church as backdrop for a photo-op. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde spoke to the Washington Post's religion reporter Michelle Boornstein:

    "We were not told that they would be clearing with tear gas so they could use one of our churches as a prop while the president was holding a bible, one that declares that God is love and when everything he has said and done is to enflame violence.

    "I am ... I am just beyond outrage. We need moral leadership and he's done everything to divide us and has just used one of the most sacred symbols of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

    "We so disassociate ourselves from the messages of this president. We hold the teachings of our sacred texts to be so grounding to our lives and everything we do and it is about love of neighbor and sacrificial love and justice."

    The late American novelist and playwright Sinclair Lewis (1885-1951) once observed that "[w]hen fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross."

    Can't really take issue with that at this point.

    Parent

    Drove up to Key Largo (none / 0) (#144)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:39:42 PM EST
    this morning for a doctor appointment and it's only 27 miles away, but it took an hour to get there.  Cars, trucks, boats, and motor homes galore on their way down here, just as I predicted.  On the way home two lunatic types on very fast Japanese motorcycles were jamming through traffic zigging and zagging at about 70mph by my estimation.  Happily I saw them pulled over by the sheriff a few miles later.  

    Today is the official start of the hurricane season and there is a big storm spinning down near the Yucatán.  They think it will swerve into Central America.  There have already been two named tropical storms that were farther north and went out to sea.  The experts expect this to be a large and potentially dangerous hurricane season.  KeysDan c'mon back down since it doesn't sound safe up where you are.  No place seems safe anymore.

    Sorry meant this for the open thread. (none / 0) (#145)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 06:43:02 PM EST
    There is a huge difference (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:18:58 PM EST
    In the coverage of this on CNN and MSNBC.  I don't get it.

    CNN rightly IMO is non stop talking about how completely batshi+ this is.  How completely Banana Republic.

    MSNBC is talking to  Valerie Jarrett about Baltimore.

    I am loving me some Anderson Cooper right now. (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:39:22 PM EST
    He is talking to the Episcopal Bishop of DC, whose church was used for the photo op. She is livid.

    Parent
    The few times I filmed news (none / 0) (#154)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:47:50 PM EST
    it was well known that CNN had many more reporters and film crews than any other news group.  Of course that was years ago.  News crews are paid way less than sports and it's usually dangerous.  I stayed with sports .

    Parent
    I thought about that (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:58:38 PM EST
    MSNBC clearly did not for whatever reason seem to have live coverage of Trumps little church walk.  Or the gas in the park.

    But it still seems like they should be talking about it.

    Parent

    PBS's Yaniche Alcondor surely will be. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 08:29:51 PM EST
    She was reporting on site and got caught up in that.

    Parent
    Inane and insane. (none / 0) (#176)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 09:36:23 PM EST
    Comments from right wingers.  George Soros is paying for pallets of bricks to throw at police.    And for variation, Mayor de Blasio's wife is paying for the bricks.   Republicans are desperate--- a botched pandemic response, a depression, and a President cowering in a bunker until he conjured up enough verve for a military escort to a boarded up church for a holy photo op.

    Bogeyman Soros (none / 0) (#199)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 04:58:11 PM EST
    is very unpopular, to put it mildly, in some Russian circles because of his support for Ukrainian independence..

    Russian online troll gangs have very accurately gauged the willingness of U.S right-wingers to embrace the improbable and lurid with open arms.

    Next: another War of the Worlds broadcast. More of them will believe it now than they did before.

    Parent

    President Grab 'em By the P*ssy (none / 0) (#192)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    desecrates the National Shrine to Pope John Paul II by his putrid presence.

    Archbishop Wilton Gregory, the nation's highest-ranking African-American Catholic prelate, issued a strongly-worded statement calling Trump's decision to visit the Saint John Paul II National Shrine "baffling and reprehensible".

    Accompanying him was a former hooker.

    Please... (none / 0) (#193)
    by jmacWA on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 03:05:58 PM EST
    Accompanying him was a former hooker

    A little crass... more likely a former (and likely currently) paid escort ;)

    Parent

    If Trumps plan (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 03:38:03 PM EST
    Was to galvanize and solidify this movement he could not have planned yesterday better.

    The number of bodies filling my tv screen is kind of thrilling.

    Springtime for Trump (none / 0) (#196)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 03:49:00 PM EST
    Secretary of Defense Esper and General Miley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, now claim they knew nothing about that domination walk in the park with Trump.  Or, that the path to the church was cleared by gassing peaceful protesters, even before curfew.  Trump put Miley "in charge" of something or other.  Maybe, that military helicopter hovering dangerous low over protesters heads.  But, certainly not that the US military was to confront US citizens and do what the military is trained to do to enemies.

    Milley and especially Esper (none / 0) (#197)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 04:14:10 PM EST
    don't sound credible.  Are they trying to
     channel the lovable Sgt. Schultz?  I saw video of that helicopter, it looked like it was trying to disperse protesters by force of wind.  It's lucky that it didn't crash into something.

    Parent
    Gen. Miley (none / 0) (#201)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 05:15:45 PM EST
    Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was seen walking the streets of Washington, D.C., in battle fatigues after curfew Monday night -- a scene that sparked an intense wave of criticism.

    Parent
    It was Barr that cleared the park (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 04:20:03 PM EST
    I (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 02, 2020 at 05:03:45 PM EST
    knew it the moment he was spotted lurking in the background while the storm troopers gathered, all to give tRump his domination moment. Unfortunately I believe he is just getting started. We are millimeters from slipping into an authoritarian state, if we are not already there.

     

    Parent