Open Thread: Every Vote Counts

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 01:02:50 PM EST
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Please don't forget to vote. In addition to voting for President, there are votes for members of Congress, state officials, including legislators and judges, and local ordinances. All are important. Colorado's ballot was the longest I can remember. If I wasn't sure about a particular issue, I read the booklet the state sent with the pros and cons, and if I still wasn't sure, or I didn't care, I skipped that question. But on the big stuff, I voted.

Good luck Kamala, Good luck Diana DeGette, and good luck to Denver County Court Judge Kelly Cherry. You all deserve much more than votes. You have invested years of your lives to trying to make all of our lives better. You have given your hearts and souls to provide us with the best governance you can.

We get the government we elect. You snooze, you lose. As I say about Donald Trump every year: "It's time to scrape his sh*t right off our shoes". (Sweet Virginia, below) [more...]

This is an open thread, all topics welcome. I'll be back here soon.

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Open Thread: Every Vote Counts | 62 comments (62 topical)

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Please vote to keep (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by Chuck0 on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 04:02:40 PM EST

fascism out of American government.

I am absolutely not advocating for anything here. But please note that dictators are rarely removed by an election. It usually takes something much messier. Do you want that chaos in the United States again (see 1861-1865 for context).

I voted! (5.00 / 4) (#11)
by Zorba on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 12:57:47 PM EST

Yay, me!
Now I've got to nag Mr. Zorba into filling out his ballot.

: Got Mr. Zorba (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by Zorba on Sat Oct 26, 2024 at 03:40:39 PM EST

To finish his ballot, and we took it to the drop-off box this morning.

Spineless Washington Post... (5.00 / 4) (#13)
by desertswine on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 01:35:16 PM EST

refuses to endorse a presidential candidate.

The LA Times (5.00 / 5) (#14)
by Zorba on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 01:54:36 PM EST

Also didn't endorse. Owner Soon-Shiong forbade it, and several editorial staff quit.


: Well, "Democracy Dies In Darkness" (5.00 / 5) (#16)
by desertswine on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 02:32:07 PM EST

Right?

Yes, (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 02:26:29 PM EST

they are going back to their good old days when they didn't make presidential endorsements, except in urgent circumstances such as in 1952 when they endorsed Eisenhower. Apparently, Adlai Stevenson, the governor of Illinois, and later, UN Ambassador under JFK, was enough of a threat to make an endorsement (more likely, the urgency was there has been no Republican president in 20 years)

And, then that other exception to endorse Jimmy Carter because, Nixon was bad and Ford pardoned that bad man. Of course, Trump the Hitler-curious, convicted felon, now out on bail, who orchestrated the attempt to overthrow the government, was twice impeached, adjudicated as a sexual offender, a fraudster, and promises to jettison democracy, does not warrant an endorsement.

However, this may be all to the good. If they were to endorse, it may well have been Trump Fear is hard to overcome when your $billions are at risk.


Washington Post owner... (5.00 / 3) (#17)
by desertswine on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 02:49:17 PM EST

Bezos and Amazon has government contracts worth billions of dollars.


: During Trump's (none / 0) (#19)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 03:37:57 PM EST

term in office, he threatened to double postal rates for shipping so as to punish Bezos. Trump pushed the Postmaster General to increase the rates it charged Amazon . Moreover, he would not support a Post Office bailout if rates were not increased. Bezos got the message.---challenge Trump, be punished, love him, be rewarded.
From Hitler's playbook, for example, Gustav Krupp went along with the Nazis and Krupp steel works became the center of German rearmament. In 1943, his son, Alfried, became sole owner by special order of the Fuhrer. After the war, things did not continue to be so rosy for the Krupps, slave labor and all. But, in the short term it was a profitable ride.

Jeff Bezos and Patrick Soon-Shiong ... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 28, 2024 at 03:12:33 PM EST

... made business decisions that they respectively felt were in their best interests. And because both men have substantive holdings above and beyond the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times, I understand and respect that.

Now, that being said, and speaking personally, I believe the decision of both men to bend the knee to Donald Trump in clear fear of his potential retribution actually speaks far more about the existential threat the GOP nominee poses to our country, than any mere editorial endorsements written by either paper.

The parallels that so many had drawn between the pro-Nazi German American Bund rally at New York City's Madison Square Garden in February 1939, and the MAGA GOP "Nuremburg, USA" rally yesterday at that same venue, sadly proved to be eerily prescient. On that basis, in what's clearly become a base turnout election, I'd much rather be the Harris-Walz campaign right now than the Trump-Vance campaign.

Yesterday's GOP Scheißshow in the Garden, which even Trump himself is now attempting to disassociate from his campaign in the wake of the public backlash and fallout, may well have been the coup de grace. At the end of the day, he and his knuckle-dragging MAGA faithful simply couldn't restrain themselves from indulging their own worst instincts.

Eight more days.


Almost agree (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by CoralGables on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 09:23:50 AM EST

made business decisions that they respectively felt were in their best interests. And because both men have substantive holdings above and beyond the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times, I understand and respect that.

I understand it. I don't respect it.


Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#36)
by KeysDan on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 10:30:42 AM EST

(CG. Good to hear from you, trust all is well with you and family)


: All good (5.00 / 4) (#60)
by CoralGables on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 08:13:08 PM EST

Still kicking, still running marathons, voted early like Jimmy Carter just in case I don't make it to November 5.

Retaliation isn't something new (none / 0) (#37)
by coast on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 12:20:27 PM EST

This adminstration, and likely eveyone before it, has used its position to retaliate against its political adversaries. So what Trump is saying isn't something new. What is new is that he's opening saying it. Which is par for the course.


The WaPo (none / 0) (#20)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 03:59:59 PM EST

Editorial page editor approved the endorsement of Kamala, but publisher Will Lewis killed it, taking into account the order of owner Jeff Bezos.


: WaPo editor (5.00 / 2) (#21)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 04:37:45 PM EST

at large, Robert Kagan, resigned.

: Well, that's the deal we have with.. (none / 0) (#22)
by desertswine on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 11:16:20 PM EST

the new breed of Western Oligarchs; we make them unimaginably wealthy and in turn they make us ___ and ___. (Fill in the blanks).

Go Ducks (5.00 / 2) (#23)
by fishcamp on Sat Oct 26, 2024 at 02:13:40 PM EST

Kudos (5.00 / 4) (#25)
by FlJoe on Sun Oct 27, 2024 at 08:26:23 AM EST

to Jake Tapper, he was taking no guff from JD on his show.

Actual journalism was committed.

Great ad (5.00 / 3) (#39)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 02:21:52 PM EST

Secret

EXCELLENT (5.00 / 3) (#40)
by jmacWA on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 03:44:30 PM EST

Hopefully this happens A LOT.


: I personally know (none / 0) (#41)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 04:44:02 PM EST

2

Really great ad (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by MO Blue on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:10:37 PM EST

I expect there will be a lot of women who follow the example of the women in the ad. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few GOP politicians strongly mouth support of the orange one but fill in the box for Harris.


RIP (5.00 / 2) (#42)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 05:07:51 PM EST

Teri Garr

: Terri Garr was one of my... (5.00 / 3) (#52)
by desertswine on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 12:28:56 AM EST

favorite actors. I loved her in Young Frankenstein.

They are predicting Kamala's (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:22:45 PM EST

ellipse crowd will be bigger than Trump's. (56,000? I think)

That's gonna leave a mark.

I think (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 08:15:02 PM EST

That was the goal


75,000 (none / 0) (#54)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 07:36:40 AM EST

And for the record (none / 0) (#56)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 07:42:26 AM EST

I don't think the plan or the idea to have it there was necessarily to get a bigger crowd.


Might not have been the primary goal (5.00 / 3) (#58)
by MO Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 10:39:25 AM EST

but I do think they thought a larger crowd would get under the orange one's skin and be a pleasant side benefit


: Sure (none / 0) (#59)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 11:47:07 AM EST

Every time I start hyperventilating at the (5.00 / 4) (#61)
by vml68 on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 11:43:19 PM EST

thought of Tr*mp winning the election, I remind myself that this time around I have seen very few Tr*mp yard signs when I am driving around town.
My county voted for him in 2016 but Biden eked out a win in 2020. Both times there were plenty of Tr*mp signs.

On Sunday, I went to pick up some goat milk for my dogs at a nearby farm. When I drove up to the community I saw that most of the houses had suffered damage from the hurricane. Lots of furniture, personal items, etc., piled up on the curb. What really stood out was that almost all the homes had multiple Tr*mp yard signs. The oddest thing was that I was there just before the hurricane and did not see a single yard sign. I was a bit off mood after that.

Then, yesterday I was watching one of the local news stations where they were interviewing various local Puerto Rican business owners to get their reactions to the "garbage" comment. I was shocked when almost all of them said that while they did not like the comment/"joke", they would still be voting for Tr*mp! My off mood got a little more off.

Then, today I was chatting with one of my Republican neighbors. Anytime I am at her place she always has Fox news on. We have never ever discussed politics but today she mentioned that she had just come back from voting. Went on to say how she agreed with most of what Tr*mp "accomplished" during his presidency, was very disparaging about Biden and not at all complimentary about Kamala. BUT, she voted for Kamala! because she was tired of Tr*mp's constant juvenile name calling. Could have knocked me over with a feather.

: I use deductive (5.00 / 4) (#62)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 31, 2024 at 06:48:34 AM EST

Reasoning. Trump has not acquired any new voters. His max vote is 46%. He or his candidates have been losing every election since 2016 and there has to be enough voters sick of the Trump show to make him lose.
But even with all that I am still stressed out.

I've noticed something new (none / 0) (#2)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 04:21:01 PM EST

at least for me. (Not the most observant of yard signs) Putting Trump signs on empty lots. Possibly next door to your house but not necessarily.

I noticed because it's the only Trump signs I've seen. My little town is not big on yard signs except for local elections it seems. But I've previously more Trump yard signs.
The rare Blue yard sign has all but disappeared.

This is a weird election. I've seen a few overt things in the last few weeks like T shirts. But it's always the hard core.
I am seeing very little normal overt demonstrations of political expression like yard signs and hardware store talk.

It's strangely quite.
They don't seem to want to talk about it.

This seems like a positive sign. Enthusiasm and all.

Record turn out (none / 0) (#3)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 05:06:37 PM EST

MSNBC just said 28 million + votes have been cast

And that is 20% of the total turnout of the last election.

That's why it seems so pointless (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 08:05:14 PM EST

to keep writing about reasons to vote for one side or how bad Trump is. Most people have either filled out and/or mailed in their ballot.

It's all tea leaves at this point.

Who could possibly be undecided about Donald Trump? You either detest him, or think he's going to save you millions in taxes, or are delusional and think he cares about anyone outside his immediate family.


With the possible exception (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by Zorba on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 08:35:16 PM EST

Of Ivanka, I'm not so sure that he cares all that much about his immediate family, except for what they are doing and can do for him.


I agree that persuasion should no longer (5.00 / 5) (#9)
by Peter G on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 08:53:55 AM EST

be a significant objective; minds capable of thought are made up. What is important now is turnout, turnout, turnout.


IMO (none / 0) (#7)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 09:20:59 PM EST

the undecided voter is largely a media creation.


They just (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 10:17:12 AM EST

can't decide. They don't like either one. Still looking for Ms. or Mr. Perfect. But, since they can't tell the difference between good and evil as it is, how would they be able to discern between perfect and imperfect, anyhow?


I am concerned, though, about how many (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by Peter G on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 01:00:33 PM EST

are undecided between voting Harris and not voting (or voting Stein/Green) over Gaza. I have a recurring nightmare about 1968 (when thank god I was only 19 and not yet old enough, in those days, to vote), when a significant number of liberals and progressives (not a majority or plurality, but enough to make a difference) could not bring themselves to vote for LBJ's vice president, Hubert Humphrey, who was running for president against Richard Nixon, over Humphrey's refusal to speak out against the Vietnam War. Partially as a result of that bloc, we got Nixon. Had I been old enough, I might well have been one of them. I did not see that a presidential election is much more (almost entirely) a decision on which of two individuals would be the better president for the next four years, and not a referendum on whether either of the two deserves to be commended for their past positions or conduct.


1968 was my first vote in a (5.00 / 3) (#18)
by leap2 on Fri Oct 25, 2024 at 03:20:36 PM EST

presidential election. I will say, I wrote in Shirley Chisholm, because I was sick of the people running the Vietnam War. And I still wish she had won. Not a chance in hell, though. She was the smartest and most progressive of any of that bunch.


: My first vote was in 1980. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 28, 2024 at 03:28:38 PM EST

Like so many 18- and 19-year-olds back then who had grown up in Republican households, I cast my ballot for Ronald Reagan.
And I now freely admit that 44 years later, in obvious retrospect and given all the elections since come and gone, that vote for Reagan remains the one I most truly regret casting, and I dearly wish I could take it back and change it. We had a truly good man in Jimmy Carter, and we cavalierly tossed him aside for the political equivalent of Joe Isuzu.
Aloha.

Long lines in places (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by MO Blue on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 09:16:00 PM EST

Where you normally don't have to stand in line. No excuse early voting started here 10/22. Friends told me today that it is almost impossible to get into the parking lots for the local libraries let alone get in line to vote. I voted at the Board of Elections which is located in a large mall with endless parking. Still took over an hour to get through the line. Mixed bag of people queuing up to vote. Very diverse crowd. Best guess...Republicans are voting early right along with the Democrats.


Increased participation (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 24, 2024 at 09:27:15 PM EST

seems to be the only silver lining for our stormy media environment.

In 2020 Trump really did get more votes than anyone ever did. Except Biden.


Are you (none / 0) (#45)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:14:28 PM EST

Seeing Trump exhaustion in your area? I see it but have no idea to what extent it is going to affect voting


: Yes (none / 0) (#47)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:20:33 PM EST

And yes to the question about the Senate

I saw (none / 0) (#44)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:12:45 PM EST

A poll where Kunce is neck in neck with Hawley. I hate to get my hopes up but is there any chance Hawley get s the boot?


I would be very surprised (none / 0) (#53)
by MO Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 06:47:02 AM EST

if Kunce won. Good candidate but MO is very, very red.

Personally, I would have run a lot of ads of Hawley running from the Senate. The coward of the Senate left his colleagues behind and he will do nothing to protect you as a Senator.


: You are probably right but (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 07:40:33 AM EST

I have high hopes Hawley, Cruz, Scott and maybe one or two more are going to lose.
Hope and expectations.

Wonder of AI (none / 0) (#26)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 27, 2024 at 02:37:27 PM EST

A friend suggested I might be obsessive about houseplants. I might. So I asked GOOGLE "name for a person obsessed with plants"
AI Overview

A person who loves plants and knows how to care for them is called a plantsman. This term can include botanists and amateurs who have a deep understanding of growing plants

😄

The second choice is what I was looking for, anthophile.

: But, I discovered (none / 0) (#27)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 27, 2024 at 03:39:06 PM EST

Plantsman is a thing. I could be one of those too.

This is a members only post (none / 0) (#28)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 27, 2024 at 04:50:01 PM EST

at PWire

Yeah, I been sayin

The Polls Could Definitely Be Wrong
October 27, 2024 at 5:21 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 49 Comments
Most debates over whether the election polls are off focus on whether they're once again underestimating Donald Trump, as they did in 2016 and 2020.
But there's a compelling argument that this time, the polls might actually be underestimating Kamala Harris.

Actually the argument is more like they are over sampling Trump., IMO. Overcompensating

Speaking as someone who's done polling, ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 28, 2024 at 03:45:21 PM EST

... I think you're probably right. The polls appear to be weighted inordinately to compensate for previous polling misses regarding GOP turnout in 2016 and 2020.

The damnedest thing is that pollsters likewise vastly underestimated the Democratic turnout in 2018, 2020 and 2022, because younger voters (ages 18-29) tend to not be factored into the pollsters' definition of a "likely voter", and those younger voters actually turned out in force for Democrats over the past three elections.

And pollsters appear to be making that same mistake again in their default assumption that the "kids" will once again stay home this time, just like they used to do in pre-Trumpian years. Based on the data we're seeing right now, no, they're not staying home and further, the turnout of female voters will likely smash records.

Aloha.


Pollsters (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:21:27 PM EST

Do not understand today's young people. They vote. My gen z son and all his friends vote unlike millennial voters.millennial son and DIL do not vote


: I think there is a big (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:24:17 PM EST

group of young voters not being polled,

There has to be some truth to these (none / 0) (#32)
by Chuck0 on Mon Oct 28, 2024 at 05:02:25 PM EST

speculations.

Just look at the sheer number of Republicans that are announcing for Harris. Other than Tulsi Gabbard, I don't see any groundswell going the other way.

And as stated before, I don't see how PA is going to flip to the Orange Moron after going for Biden in 2020 and electing a Democrat for governor in the last three elections. And choosing Fetterman over Doctor "the carpetbagger" Oz. It seems we have another carpetbagger on the GQP side in this election as well.


Tulsi never was (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by Zorba on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 01:46:46 PM EST

a "real" Democrat.


: It's almost worth speaking (none / 0) (#57)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2024 at 07:44:30 AM EST

to my former green party acquaintances to ask them how they feel about her supporting Trump.
Almost.

Someone mentioned before (none / 0) (#33)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2024 at 07:14:12 PM EST

about flooding the zone with bad polls.

Some of that. And polling that has for a long time IMO over sampled MAGA and under sampled support for reproductive rights.


Polls are garbage (none / 0) (#46)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2024 at 06:18:11 PM EST

I just saw one here in NC that had Robinson losing by 21 points all statewide Democrats winning by 5 points and Trump and Harris tied. So unless there are a ton of people leaving the governor's race blank it is nonsense


Can't forget (none / 0) (#34)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2024 at 07:27:14 PM EST

how much this election - these elections - will be won, mostly, on the issue of reproductive rights.

Without Dobbs Trump really might be the next president. Our country is that F'ed up.

I kind of believe that. But it's ok. Because he won't. And I think this will be a change election.

This time next year Trump could be doing time for contempt. At least.

Sould contempt be capitalized?