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Thursday Open Thread

Our last open thread is full. Here's a new one. All topics welcome.

I've mostly been following the arrests of El Mayo (Ismael Zambada-Garcia) and El Chapo's Son #3, Joaquin Guzman-Lopez. So far it seems the competing versions of how the pair came to end up in U.S. custody have some truthful details and some inconsistent or implausible details. Too many cooks spoil the broth. (Or, in this case, it's too many unidentified sous-chefs, most of whom are unnamed agents of non-identified government agencies and unnamed current or former cartel members, talking to their favorite journalists). The U.S. Government does not seem inclined at this point to deconstruct the mess for us.

Also of interest: The killing of Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh. [More...]

In my opinion, he was a monster that needed to go. I'll always remember the video of him kneeling alongside other men dressed in suits in his office the day of the attacks on Israel, praying and giving thanks for the attacks. He was killed while staying at a guest house of the Iraq Revolutionary Guard. He was in Iran to attend the sweaaring in of the new Iranian president. (It's more than a bit embarrassing for Iran that they couldn't even protect a guest at in militarily protected premises.)

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan today declared Friday will be a national day of mourning for the Hamas leader.

Israel has not acknowledged responsibility for killing Haniyah. It has acknowledged killing Hesbollah's highest military commander Fu’ad Shukr, whom it claims was responsible for killing the dozen or so children at a soccer field in the Golan Heights. The soccer field was in a Druze neighborhood and the children killed were Israeli Druze. The Druze are are a religious sect that Israel has officially recognized since 1957. Most share an Arab ethnicity but their religion differs from Islam and they do not identify as Muslims. They participate in Israeli politics, including having seats in the legislature. According to Wikipedia and the Pew Research Center, they self-identify first as Druze, then as Israelis, and as Arabs last.

Again, this is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    This is interesting (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 01, 2024 at 05:54:07 PM EST

    Obama and Bush to Mark America's 250th Anniversary
    August 1, 2024 at 1:30 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 137 Comments

    "Former Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush will join an effort to commemorate America's 250th anniversary in 2026, highlighting the initiative's attempts to build bipartisan momentum in an era of extreme political polarization," the AP reports.

    "The former presidents and first ladies Michelle Obama and Laura Bush will serve as honorary national co-chairs of America250, the organization created by Congress in 2016 to oversee the celebration of the the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence."

    I will be curious how much MAGA is included in this plan.  I think not much.

    I (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by FlJoe on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 08:21:50 PM EST
    am starting to think Waltz would be the best pick not so much Shapiro.

    I like Walz (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 09:55:15 PM EST
    "They want to ban books from their schools, we want to ban hunger from ours."

    Parent
    I didn't know much about Walz. (none / 0) (#35)
    by vml68 on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 09:03:29 PM EST
    When I first looked him up and saw his picture, I thought he was in his 70s. Too old to be a running mate. But, he is only a few months older than Kamala!
    I've seen a few interviews with him since and I think he would be a good VP.

    Parent
    I have given some additional (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 04:03:06 PM EST
    thought to Vance's ridiculous statements that childless Americans have less a stake in the future of this country than parents. I wish he was around to tell me that the day I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution when I joined the US Navy. And the thousands and thousands of other "childless" young people who take that oath to serve in the Armed Forces of the United States.

    Something that neither member of the GQP/MAGA ticket have EVER done. I spent more time defending this country in the US Navy that JD Vance has spent in the US Senate.

    This showed up (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 05:27:57 PM EST
    Even worse (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 05:46:45 PM EST
    the FOP endorsed Trump. Or one of those big police organizations. The next time one of their organizations calls the office for money I am going to tell them if they can endorse a convicted felon for president they can find money elsewhere.

    Parent
    I pretty much tell them that (none / 0) (#51)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 07:58:24 PM EST
    anytime any LE calls me for donations. They can all pound sand as far as I'm concerned. Better places to put my money.

    Parent
    Must be the Trumpian (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 03:56:09 PM EST
    "Don't worry about not cracking their heads against the doorframe" that they like.

    The logical-rational part of me wonders why cops would support an anti-union party that in-effect wants to flood the country with guns. But LE getting behind Trump has nothing to do with rationality and everything to do with Trump manipulating primitive emotions.

    Parent

    Vance (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 05:45:18 PM EST
    enlisted in the Marines but you make a good point. I guess when he was a Marine he had no vested interest in the country since he was childless.

    Parent
    I stand corrected. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 07:57:09 PM EST
    I confess I did not know he had been a Marine. I thought he had gone straight to college and was another Ivy League jerk conservative (Yale).

    You would think those MAGA idiots would play up his Marine Corp service since Orange moron skated with "bone spurs."


    Parent

    It makes (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 03:52:28 AM EST
    Trump look bad so that is probably why it is rarely mentioned.

    Parent
    The arrest (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 01, 2024 at 05:37:55 PM EST
    of the cartel leaders was like a one hour story that should have gotten more attention.

    The story of the Hamas leader has gotten a lot of attention. I read and this may not be true that someone had planted a bomb in that house months ago and detonated it remotely when they knew he was there.

    They (none / 0) (#4)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 01, 2024 at 06:15:23 PM EST
    are all one hour stories anymore.

    To be fair to the media, there is a daily barrage of real bombshells.

    Today it's the rightfully huge prisoner swap story crowding out Trump's racist meltdown.

    Think about, it has been barely a month since the debate and so much incredible stuff has happened.

    The assassination attempt was less then 3 weeks ago, it feels like months.

    Parent

    I question why the shooting at the Tr*mp rally (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Peter G on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 09:03:13 AM EST
    is being called an "assassination attempt." No evidence has been disclosed (and I therefore tend to assume none has been found) that Crooks was aiming to kill Tr*mp in particular. It seems from what I have read that he was just another mentally troubled 20-year-old seeking to be perceived as important, to become momentarily famous. I would call it an attempted mass shooting, not an assassination attempt, which happens to have been thwarted after a few seconds by the quick action of the Secret Service sharpshooter.

    Parent
    There has been a bit of a (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 01, 2024 at 05:48:27 PM EST
    News blizzard.  Probably lots of things fell through the cracks

    Latest weasel attempt by Trump (none / 0) (#5)
    by jmacWA on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 06:44:26 AM EST
    This column by Lyle Denniston talks about the latest attempt by Trump's lawyers to try and weasel out of the NY verdicts.  

    Can any of the lawyers on the site weigh in on the chances of this succeeding?  It seems to me that this is total nonsense.  Actually, the ruling by the majority on the Supreme Court also seems like total nonsense to me, and can only be interpreted as giving a pass to Trump.

    Today (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 08:05:30 AM EST

    A federal judge in Washington is set to regain control over former president Donald Trump's 2020 election obstruction case as early as Friday under a deadline set by the Supreme Court



    If the pundits (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 08:31:38 AM EST
    are right Chutkhan is going to have to have an evidentiary hearing with people testifying bringing the insurrection back to the top of the news.

    Parent
    I just caught (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 12:29:53 PM EST
    kicked-in-the-head-too-many-times meathead Rogan claiming that Biden's last SOTU speech was prerecorded, (with the full cooperation of Republicans.) Presumably because it went so well.

    Meathead's pronouncement got three billion views.

    Pretty much an encapsulation of the kind of wildly crack-brained thinking that enables Trump to be in the position to be President.

    Joe Rogan. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    Another box of rocks.

    Parent
    Smart enough to know (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 04:57:42 PM EST
    Because "We are in a time (none / 0) (#12)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 05:15:28 PM EST
    in which people buy into bullsh*t more than they ever have before."

    As evidenced by all the people that tune into his show.

    Parent

    "Gaslighting" (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 05:45:26 PM EST
    Coming from the dipsh*t who uses his huge platform to

    • to amplify every prominent anti-vaxxer and HIV deniers.

    • whip-up right-wing hysteria about Trans people (1% of the population)

    • claim 'woke' teachers encourage kids to be furries.

    • claim the FBI fomented January 6th

    • attributed Trump's statement about airports in the Revolutionary War to Biden

    Etcetera etcetera


    Parent
    I neither praise nor defend (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 07:21:13 PM EST
    I report.

    I do think it's significant he is telling his audience Trump is going to lose.  

    Because he is.  And what happens next is the problem.

    Parent

    I admit (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 12:47:12 PM EST
    I have a particular bug up my butt about Rogan, because I have to deal with a family member on a regular basis who thinks Joe can do no wrong.

    The meme is, "Rogan's neither left nor right and he asks questions no one else is asking blah blah"

    BTW, he said Kamala could win, not that she will win. Then he makes it clear that he detests her.

    Parent

    I though (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 06:04:26 PM EST
    the VP was going to be announced today. I guess I was wrong.

    I am on Team Walz (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Towanda on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 05:36:48 PM EST
    but then, I am an admirer of history teachers.

    I have been following his Twitter feed for a while, and he is great -- and funny.

    I also am a longtime follower and admirer of Pritzker, also great and funny. He may take the conventioneers to Wiener's Circle. . . .

    Parent

    Well, just looked (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 06:07:39 PM EST
    it up and it's next week:

    Her interview list includes Govs. Andy Beshear of Kentucky, J.B. Pritzker of Illinois, Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania and Tim Walz of Minnesota, as well as Sen. Mark Kelly of Arizona and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, according to two people with knowledge of Harris' selection process. The people were granted anonymity to discuss private campaign deliberations.

    So that's the list of six according to the latest news. You could argue any of them would be good but I would pick Beshear to get Trump's rural margins down and put more states in play. But that's me and certainly nobody is gonna listen to my opinion on this.

    Parent

    Sure feels like Shapiro (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 07:22:38 PM EST
    but I think Tim Waltz might be a dark horse

    Parent
    Hush! (none / 0) (#19)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 02, 2024 at 09:10:30 PM EST
    Josh Shapiro needs to stay Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He don't need no stinking new job.

    There is always this notion that getting a candidate from a certain state will help swing that state. I say poppycock! Stealing my governor might make a person want to NOT vote for that ticket. Hmmmmmm?

    Parent

    It could be that having the first rally (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 07:22:41 AM EST
    with the new VP in PA could be a head fake. That has some expecting it to be him.

    Seems to obvious.

    There was also a story about an accidentally released post from some operative that seemed to confirm it.  It was quickly removed and denied.

    So.....

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#22)
    by FlJoe on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 09:01:31 AM EST
    wouldn't put too much stock in the location, this rally has been planned for a couple of weeks, so if you believe the process is been still ongoing it seems more coincidence then planned.

     

    Parent

    There is a part of the left (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 09:27:13 AM EST
    unclear how big, for whom Shapiro is a problem because of Gaza.

    I think it's stupid but it's real and I could see her wanting to avoid that or the problems some have with Kelly for whatever reason.

    Waltz would be a pretty good "Biden" for her.  He could give her some of the same stuff Biden gave Obama.  Age, experience, humor...

    Parent

    He's someone (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 09:29:33 AM EST
    old white people could like.

    Parent
    Governor Beshear (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 10:22:43 AM EST
    fits the criterion of "do no harm" and keeps the new and young momentum  going.   Governor Walz  has impressed many but I hope his aw-shucks manner is durable.  Governor Shapiro's history on school vouchers and the harassment case by one of his staff may need explaining --not a good way to start.  Mark Kelly, as a US Senator places a seat in jeopardy in a couple of years (Mark's appearance reminds me of the fictional character "Mike Ehrmantraut" in Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul).   But, all the mentioned possibilities are great--the Vice President has a nice/tough decision to make.

    Parent
    Some vibrant 'male energy' (none / 0) (#30)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 01:15:30 PM EST
    with sufficient macho/patriotic credentials is required to keep the Rogan-adjacent misogynists and incels from getting too hysterical.

    An unassertive Tim Caine type ain't going to cut it, imo. No disrespect to Tim Caine.

    That's just the world we live in.

    Parent

    Kaine, excuse me (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 01:18:47 PM EST
    True (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 01:06:27 PM EST
    and Beshear and possibly Kelly would fit in the liked by old white people lane.

    Parent
    His (none / 0) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 02:02:52 PM EST
    life has been the very opposite of Elite, take that JD.

    Parent
    He only has two children (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 02:10:04 PM EST
    which could mean covert contraceptive use.
    And other subversive practices.

    Parent
    Better (none / 0) (#53)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 08:09:04 AM EST
    yet, they were IVF children.

    Parent
    VP Replacement (none / 0) (#27)
    by RickyJim on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 11:25:06 AM EST
    Which of the current VP candidates would probably be replaced by a Republican, in their current job, if they were to join the winning presidential ticket?  I would eliminate them.

    Parent
    New (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 10:07:14 AM EST
    Judge Chutkan schedules status conference in Trump Jan. 6 case and denies his motion to dismiss, per docket:

    Status conference set for August 16, 2024 at 10:00 A.M. in Courtroom 9; requiring joint status report by August 9, 2024

    Big, loud, ex-Navy Seal (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2024 at 09:30:23 PM EST
    Jesse Ventura is tearing Tump a new one on the podcast circuit recently and I hope he continues to.

    It can't hurt. The young gym-bro types and white working class dudes that follow Joe Rogan like and respect Jesse even more.
    It's the big, loud, conspiracy-minded, ex-Seal/wrestler thing.

    From what I've heard so far, the DNC should put Jesse on the payroll.

    Parent

    You might be confused about (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 07:36:30 AM EST
    Ha (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 09:07:49 AM EST
    I confused my wrestlers

    It was very early

    Parent

    The DNC needs to snap (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 10:34:32 AM EST
    out of it, get with the program, take gloves off and fight fire with fire.

    That means having 'names' out there smacking Trump down and publicly showing him up for the know nothing punk he is.

    No more Mr and Ms Nice Guy. It doesn't work in this country.

    Parent

    I'm expecting (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 11:19:51 AM EST
    way better celebs than Hulk Hogan and Kid Rock

    Parent
    People who can actually (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 11:30:50 AM EST
    read and write even.

    One thing Jesse talks about is how Trump consciously adopted the WWE 'bad wrestler' persona and turned it against the libs, with the name-calling and stupid nicknames etc.

    I think 'sinking to Trump's level' but with some articulateness, facts, and data is exactly what the situation calls for.

    Parent

    I get it. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 11:53:10 AM EST
    It's like the worst thing ever said was Michelle Obama's when they go low we go high. It really has never worked, maybe it worked for Obama but that's not the norm.

    Parent
    You can go low (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 12:12:27 PM EST
    and high at the same time is my point. If you're hitting them with data and the actual historical record. And fact-checking in real time their wild-swinging BS.

    All Joe had to do in the first debate to turn the tables was to forcefully point out that Trump was skirting every policy question and turning it into a BS soundbite op.

    Parent

    Trump (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 05:48:54 PM EST
    held up the NABJ meeting because he didn't want to be fact checked in real time. He will never agree to fact checking but the goal is to confuse so many people that they don't know what is facts and what is not therefore making fact checking ineffective.

    Parent
    Whoever sponsors (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 06:17:38 PM EST
    the debates is doing an unpatriotic disservice to the nation to allow un-challenged misinformation to go out over the airwaves. It's that simple.

    This isn't Fox Nation. No matter how much the Murdochs and Elon would like it to be.

    Parent

    Yes,Trump (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 06:23:46 PM EST
    doesn't really debate, He entertains--insult comedy, deflection and bluster.  

    Parent
    Not to belabor it (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 07:39:41 PM EST
    but Dems have to stop being so nice and polite to that schmuck.

    Unfortunately, would-be schoolyard bullies require a beat-down sometimes.

    He hasn't proven in any way, shape, or form that he's worthy of respect.

    Parent

    Exactly!!!!!! (none / 0) (#70)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 04:52:23 PM EST
    That's the message I've been putting out for quite some time. Quit being deferential to this schmuck. It doesn't matter that he's an ex-president. He deserves no respect, no deference, no niceties. He burned those bridges himself.

    He's a puffed up bully (coward) and needs to be put down.


    Parent

    The (none / 0) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 06:43:10 PM EST
    sad fact is that there is a huge swath of the American electorate would rather be entertained than competently governed competently.

    Parent
    The Supreme Court is More Unpopular Than Trump (none / 0) (#44)
    by RickyJim on Sun Aug 04, 2024 at 01:06:06 PM EST
    According to recent 538 analysis, Disapprove/Approve ratio for the Supreme Court is 55.1%/35.7%.  Trump's Unfavorable/Favorable ratio is 51.9%/43.2%. Harris should immediately make Biden's Supreme Court reforms front and center at her rallies.  I think that it is a bigger winner as an issue than Trump himself. And it will have more of an effect down ticket.

    I'm very impressed (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 04:47:15 PM EST
    nothing NOTHING about the VP pick has leaked.

    That impressive these days.

    Well (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 05:31:27 PM EST
    there have been leaks but who knows if they are correct? Supposedly it is between Walz and Shapiro.

    Parent
    A difficult choice (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2024 at 06:17:11 PM EST
    between the two.  The best argument for Shapiro is Pennsylvania, the worry is the harassment case against a staff member.  Walz seems the safest choice, has 12 years experience as US Congressman and was re-elected governor of Minnesota. Both come across very well and are impressive.

    Parent
    The DARK HORSE it is (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 08:03:31 AM EST
    Waltz is the VP

    I (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by FlJoe on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 09:08:18 AM EST
    really think it's an awesome pick.

    The more I learned about him, the more I like.

    He is entertaining, in a sitcom dad kind of way.

    True salt of the earth background, he makes JD Vance look like a Rockefeller.

    Parent

    I was just listening to CNN (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 09:16:50 AM EST
    explain how his "weakness" will be A) the progressive legislation he passed as governor and B) his actions around the George Floyd demonstrations.

    As Brer Rabbit might say, pleaseeeee dont throw me in that briar patch!!!

    Parent

    Yes, (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 09:24:38 AM EST
    Democrats will need to be ready for attacks on Walz' "progressive" record such as providing food to school children.  A good and bold choice.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#67)
    by FlJoe on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 09:27:51 AM EST
    those childless cat ladies are going to be pissed about their tax money being used to feed other peoples kids.

    Parent
    He is literally (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 09:31:31 AM EST
    everything Vance pretends (badly) to be.

    Can't wait for the VP debate.

    Parent

    But, Tim (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 09:47:12 AM EST
    has both a dog and a cat.   How this will hurt the Harris/Walz ticket--NY Times, probably.

    Parent
    Who is (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 06, 2024 at 08:06:06 AM EST