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Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 01:32:48 PM EST
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Saddam Hussein has been on a hunger strike since early this month. He is now hospitalized and is being force-fed.

This is also an open thread on Iraq, where the violence is growing, more people are being killed and the media is focusing almost exclusively on Israel and Lebanon.

Let's also not forget Afghanistan, where the New York Times says we are losing ground.

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    Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed | 34 comments (34 topical)
    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 02:12:55 PM EST
    Ionesco couldn't write a better absurdist script than the one playing out daily in Iraq.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 02:44:28 PM EST
    And every time I hear ANYthing about ANYone killed in Afghanistan I just wonder, "Is it my brother?" I remember the kid when we were struggling and young and in the f'd up family situation from hell, and I KNOW how goddamn affected the kid was, how hyper-sensitive he is and not equipped emotionally for this, and I think of all the b.s. he's had pumped into his head. I just wanna cry about the kid right now. Or scream, or both.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#3)
    by JSN on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 03:02:55 PM EST
    Losing ground in Afganistan appears to be a correct statement because the Taliban were able to take a village. How long they were able to hold it is not clear. In Iraq the average kill rate is now over 100/day. I still would like to know what it takes to have bloodbath. The "stay the course" argument is that if we pull back/out there will be a bloodbath. How do we know that? Maybe if we pull back/out the kill rate will decrease. Our ability the predict events in Iraq sucks. Evidently the Iraqui government might collapse. If the bigwigs are thinking about fleeing we will be the last to know. The polls indicate that ordinary Iraquis are becoming very alarmed and some have pulled out to safer locations. We have to wait until November to toss out the fools that got us into this mess.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 03:27:18 PM EST
    Actually Patrick Cockburn puts the kill rate at 150/day. He has seen hell many times before but never like it is now in Iraq.
    raqis are terrified in a way that I have never seen before, since I first visited Baghdad in 1978. Sectarian massacres happen almost daily. The UN says 6,000 civilians were slaughtered in May and June, but this month has been far worse. In many districts it has become difficult to buy bread because Sunni assassins have killed all the bakers who are traditionally Shia.
    The Independent via War & Peace

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#5)
    by roxtar on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 03:52:59 PM EST
    jsn makes an excellent point; our presence appears to have little bearing on the internecine bloodshed. As our presence is doing nothing to prevent it, there seems to be no basis to suggest that our absence would do any thing to accelerate it. Out now.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#6)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 04:32:58 PM EST
    There are two ways to put a nasogastric feeding tube into an uncooperative patient. Both require trained medical personnel to perform, though not necessarily licensed MD's. One is to put them under a general anesthetic. This is medically dangerous (not that they care but it would be embarrasing if he died during the procedure,) and it might be difficult to get even a military anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist to put him under. The other more traditional military appoach is to place him in a very sophisticated restraint device, a la Hannibal Lecter. Then you need at least one person/torturer to hold his head from moving back and forth, during attempts by a second person/torturer to insert the tube into one nostril, or directly into the mouth, which is more difficult in a conscious patient/victim. There is no easy way to place one of these tubes into a conscious, uncooperative patient/victim without a bit of wrestling. Often you can set the tube in some ice to stiffen it up. Saddam is almost 70 years old and has not eaten for some time, so I doubt he put up much of a fight. Once the tube is advanced to the back of the nose, it is necessary to get the patient/victim to swallow to help move the tube along through into the esophagus. This causes repeated gagging and coughing by the patient/victim, which can lead to stomach contents getting aspirated into the lungs and causing pneumonia. If the patient refuses to swallow, you keep forcing the tube until the patient/victim eventually swallows out of reflex. But you usually end up with some bleeding from trauma to the nasal passages. But hey that's OK. that blood just gets swallowed anyway. This is torture any way you look at it. I presented the details for the education of those who are interested, even though it probably provided some small amount of entertainment to the trolls.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 04:40:20 PM EST
    Che's Lounge-Not that any news coming out of this circus can be trusted, but the report said that he was cooperating with them inserting a feeding tube.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#8)
    by rdandrea on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 04:47:39 PM EST
    If that SOB dies before Bush can have him killed, there goes whatever is left of the PR value of the war. I kinda hope he does, and I kinda hope he doesn't. Karma comes into play here.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 05:20:21 PM EST
    Che: the second procedure you describe is used every day in the United States to deal with would-be suicides who have chosen the overdose route. Insertion of an NG tube is a horrific experience even when the patient is compliant. However, any damage caused by insertion in that method is temporary (duration can be measured in minutes) and non life threatening. Unless an NG tube is used when other means are sufficient, it hardly qualifies as torture.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#10)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 06:23:23 PM EST
    Squeaky, Suffice to say, he got it whether he wanted it or not. Sonna, the second procedure you describe is used every day in the United States to deal with would-be suicides who have chosen the overdose route. Yes been there and done that many times. But saving a life is different than force feeding a competent individual only to fatten him up for slaughter. Insertion of an NG tube is a horrific experience even when the patient is compliant. It's assault and battery if performed upon a person who refuses and has been declared legally competent, as has SH, for the purposes of this circus. He has the right to refuse treatment. Period. If you violate that it's A&B. I don't say that to defend SH. I say it to defend basic human rights. Maybe Squeaky is correct, and the hunger strike was only symbolic, and he has now accepted the feeding tube for nutrition to get healthy again. I am skeptical. These days you just can't keep up with the violence that is occurring in our names. It's on such a level that I've never seen in my 50+ years. It's all a farce anyway.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#11)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 06:24:07 PM EST
    Why do you think it's called FORCE feeding?

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 06:31:01 PM EST
    Unless an NG tube is used when other means are sufficient, it hardly qualifies as torture.
    If he cooperated, (as a commenter above noted), then why was an NG tube used? If he wasn't cooperating then it violates his GenCons whether it amounted to torture or not.
    any damage caused by insertion in that method is temporary (duration can be measured in minutes)
    That is false. It can cause bleeding, ulcers, (especially with repeated insertions), and infections. None ofwhich are over in 'minutes.'

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#13)
    by Al on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 07:35:22 PM EST
    Afghanistan close to anarchy warns general

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#14)
    by Al on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 07:44:56 PM EST
    Bleak picture in Afghanistan

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 07:45:14 PM EST
    As I said earlier, I do not believe anything coming out of the American controlled Saddam circus. He should have been tried by an international court, anything less is a joke. FWIW:
    A spokesman for the U.S. detention command would not say whether Saddam had been hospitalized but said he was under medical supervision and was "voluntarily" taking nutrients through a feeding tube.
    link

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 07:59:43 PM EST
    et al Shorter The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 08:09:29 PM EST
    If we've got to force feed him, why not something really bad? Give him crysthanthemums and carrots, turn him bright orange. Saddam the sweet potato - now there's a goal!

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#18)
    by clio on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    Saddam...was "voluntarily" taking nutrients through a feeding tube... I believe, without any inside knowledge, that we are seeing the beginning of the end in Iraq. Consider the PR value of Saddam freed by Sunni insurgents. Perhaps he knows something we don't.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 07:28:59 AM EST
    Re: your link to "the violence is growing." Sure. It almost certainly is. But that article, while referencing violence in Iraq, does not say, or imply, that violence is growing. Perhaps a nit.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#20)
    by john horse on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 08:00:12 AM EST
    PPJ, What Al did was to link to an article in the Guardian that quoted the NATO military leader there as saying that the situation in Afghanistan is "close to anarchy" and that we are "running out of time". This is some pretty strong evidence that we are losing ground in Afghanistan. I can understand why you want to pretend things are different. However, many of the rest of us believe that you can't deal with a problem until you first acknowledge that a problem exists. If you think that the NATO commander is wrong and that everything is going great in Afghanistan then provide the evidence. You obviously must know something that Lieutenant General David Richards does not know. Please dont keep it to yourself.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#21)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 08:47:12 AM EST
    As I see it there are two main causes to the difficulty in Afghanistan. One is the opium trade. Right now for ordinary Afghani's they are dependent on it for existence. Unless the world wants to subsidize wheat or cotton or whatever crop will grow there opium is the only option. Also even if they were given another option the durg lords might inflict much harm on the ordinary citizen if he gave up their cash cow. I have zero answers to this other then without opium the Taliban would loose much of its funding. Second the unconquered territory that neith Pakistan or Afghanistat controls is a safe haven for the Taliban and its supporters. It is unforseeable that without much loss of life that we could ever hope to control theis region. Therefore the Taliban will always have a way to strike at a weak government becaus that government can't fight back against an enemy that can assentially recharge its batteries in the mountains. The only way forward IMHO is for the internatinal force to ingage the Taliban where they strike and build up the central government. As well as solve the opium problem. Big task obviously but necessary.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#22)
    by chuckj on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 08:49:52 AM EST
    The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
    Run for the hills! All is lost! Everything is under control in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure, there are problems, but each country is in the middle of a war. Don't believe all the gloom and doom you see/hear/read on the TV or internet.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 11:07:40 AM EST
    chuckj, According to various sources (see above comments) the kill rate in Iraq is somewhere between 100 and 150/day. That's the equivalent in death to a 9/11 every 20-30 days. Define 'under control'

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 11:41:54 AM EST
    As I see it there are two main causes to the difficulty in Afghanistan.
    try to stay on topic, this is about saddam not afghanistan.
    Everything is under control in Iraq and Afghanistan
    that's not what nato says and it isn't what the iraqi gov't says.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#25)
    by peacrevol on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 12:37:22 PM EST
    Everything is under control in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    no...it's really not and it hasnt been for several years. i dont think it's really getting a whole lot worse, but it was never as good over there as we'd hoped it would be and it doesnt seem to be really getting better. the most controlled i can remember it being is when the rangers plucked saddam hussein from his hole in the ground. but after that, it was pretty clear to a lot of us that even our c.o.'s were more or less guessing as to what we should do. che - very disgusting...thanks as far as saddam and his hunger strike...let him starve. he's prolly not any crazier now than he's ever been and if he doesnt want to eat, that's fine. he's a grown a$$ man.
    And every time I hear ANYthing about ANYone killed in Afghanistan I just wonder, "Is it my brother?"
    i sympathize w/ you and will keep your bro in my thoughts and prayers as i remember mine.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#26)
    by john horse on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 02:38:47 PM EST
    Sailor, With all due respect, the topics also include Iraq and Afghanistan. Slado, I agree with you that we are facing some difficult problems in Afghanistan. This is one reason why Bush's invasion of Iraq was so tragic. Resources that could have been spent for development and to hunt down Al Queda and the Taliban were instead diverted to our misadventure in Iraq. We had them on the ropes in Afghanistan but instead of putting them away we allowed them to regroup. Now, as you acknowledge, to regain control will not be possible without "much loss of life" and billions of dollars. Do you believe that the Bush administration will commit the financial and military resources needed to gain control given their past performance?

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 02:46:57 PM EST
    ppj and chuckj - Not only is it not falling, but we have dominion over it and it does our bidding. Or should. For we are the righteous of the earth. And the sun aint yellow, it's chicken.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#28)
    by chuckj on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 02:58:50 PM EST
    "Under control", of course, is a relative term. Just because we, you or the news media doesn't know the battle plan, doesn't mean there isn't one. You can't look at kill rates or other insignificant statistics to determine if we're winning. As I've told others on this site, I've been to Iraq and I've seen the changes and successes first hand.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Mon Jul 24, 2006 at 04:48:39 PM EST
    John Horse, you are correct, my apologies to all.
    You can't look at kill rates or other insignificant statistics to determine if we're winning.
    I think civilian deaths and American soldiers dying is NOT insignificant. BTW, John, you do know this chuckj is a propagandist for the gov't, right?

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#30)
    by chuckj on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 08:30:20 AM EST
    I think civilian deaths and American soldiers dying is NOT insignificant.
    Well, you think incorrectly. There will always be soldier and civilian deaths in war. The numbers we are talking about in Iraq are insignifican to the strategic outcome of the campaign. The general plan in Iraq, is to train the Iraqi police and defense forces to take care of themselves. That's happening and is on track. As for me being a government propagandist, it's just not true. I'm a normal informed citizen, nothing more. But I do believe in the plan in Iraq because I went there and helped make it happen. However, I don't just believe in all the other B.S. coming out of the Bush administration or other politicians in Washington. I realize that most politicians, including the cronies in the white house are a bunch of liars and crooks. So are most of the senate, but that's another issue.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#31)
    by desertswine on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 08:38:16 AM EST
    I'm a normal informed citizen, nothing more.
    You are f.o.s. chuckie = paid centcom shill. His job is to tell us the "happy" news. Take a coffee break chuckie.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#32)
    by chuckj on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 09:47:35 AM EST
    Mr. Swine and Mr. Sailor, Your only tactics are to call me names and try to insult me. Neither of which address the issues or intelligently discuss the topic. You only try to divert attention by claiming I'm "f.o.s." or a "shill", which are not true. You both just can't handle a differing opinion.

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#33)
    by desertswine on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 10:10:25 AM EST
    Mr. Chuckie ~ Back from break, are you?

    Re: Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed (none / 0) (#34)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 10:43:19 AM EST
    chuckie, I provided links to where you admitted you were a gov't propagandist. Everything that the NATO commander says, the iraqi gov't says contradicts your 'bed of roses' stuff. Hell even bush contradicts you. You tell people they think incorrectly, but you never provide links except to gov't propaganda, so you are the insulting one here. And no, I don't think we need a member of the gov't coming on to websites and acting like they are engaging in honest debate when all they are spewing is the same crap that is killing 100 iraqis per day.

    Saddam Hussein Hospitalized, Being Force Fed | 34 comments (34 topical)