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Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Their Caves'

Via Buzzflash: The head of a British airline has told the government it will sue unless terror restrictions are relaxed within seven days.

TERRORISTS are "rolling around the caves of Pakistan, laughing" at Britain's response to the terror threat, an airline boss said last night as he gave the government a seven-day deadline to relax restrictions or face legal action.

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary described some of the security measures as "farcical, Keystone Kops-like and completely insane and ineffectual". ... Banning items such as water bottles and toothpaste was "nuts".... He said it was "complete horse manure" to infer that passengers either faced delays or death. Mr O'Leary said the people being subjected to intense security were "not terrorists and not fanatics ... they are actually called holidaymakers". He went on: "The best way to defeat terrorists and extremists is for ordinary people to continue to live their lives as normal.

"We are not in danger of dying at the hands of toiletries. Normal security measures have successfully prevented any terrorist attack on any British plane in the last 25 years."

Some pilots agree.

Pilots also attacked the measures, which ban them from taking toothpaste on to aircraft, and said subjecting flight crews to the same restrictions as passengers made "no sense at all"....Captain Mervyn Granshaw, of the British Airline Pilots Association Balpa)...."Since the extra security measures have been introduced there have been endless practical and frustrating problems for flight crew who have to operate the aircraft," he said.

"Do officials really believe that we need to be prevented from using liquids, given that we freely load and carry many thousands of litres of volatile aviation kerosene every day? The measure is illogical and frankly bizarre."

Ryanair wants the old regulations reinstated.

Ryanair demanded the government return passenger-search requirements to pre-alert levels. It also wants the government to restore the hand-luggage allowance for passengers leaving British airports, and an assurance that military and police personnel would be released to help with airport security checks next time there is a major alert.

The airline's suggested solution:

Delays at airports in the last few days had been "entirely preventable if the government had put in a couple of hundred police or army personnel" to help airport staff.

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    I don't know what they should be doing, but whatever they are doing is defintitely wrong. Here is what I wrote last week in my blog on the issue. [Text deleted. This space is for comments, not for reprinting work published elsewhere. Please read the comment rules]

    profanity deleted

    Ryanair are not "British", they are based in the Republic of Ireland.

    Sorry for the reprint. I should have read the rules earlier.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kitt on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 10:50:18 PM EST
    Good point, Kevin. Yep, it's those northerners who are still 'British.' It still does nothing to lessen Mr. O'Leary's argument, however.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#6)
    by Johnny on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 11:38:12 PM EST
    Why does Ryanair hate... err... N/M. I really won't be long before the turrists try to smuggle WMD on board an airplane with tainted undergarments. Soon, flying will become not-an-option for most people, and then gov't gets to prove capitalisms superiority with yet another huge bailout of a major corporation. And still brown people with arabic names will hate us...

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:13:55 AM EST
    Johnny, leaving aside your attempt to slur those of us speak with a southern accent, I will just note that I would feel better about this comments if he wasn't running an airline... That leaves me to consider the fact that he has a great deal of concern over revenue lost because of too much security. He should also remember that it was the almost total lack of security, when ran by the airlines pre 9/11, that contributed greatly to where we are today.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:53:14 AM EST
    Johnny, leaving aside your attempt to slur those of us speak with a southern accent, I will just note that I would feel better about this comments if he wasn't running an airline...
    What slur? Funny, the guy running the airline and the pilots say it's ridiculous, (especially considering none had tickets or explosives and most didn't have passports), but ppj, who lives thousands of miles away, knows better. Sheesh!

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#9)
    by soccerdad on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 07:22:36 AM EST
    here's an anlysis of whats involved:
    First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water. Only this is risky, and can lead to mission failure by means of burning down your makeshift lab before a single infidel has been harmed. But let's assume that you can obtain it in the required concentration, or cook it from a dilute solution without ruining your operation. Fine. The remaining ingredients, acetone and sulfuric acid, are far easier to obtain, and we can assume that you've got them on hand. Now for the fun part. Take your hydrogen peroxide, acetone, and sulfuric acid, measure them very carefully, and put them into drinks bottles for convenient smuggling onto a plane. It's all right to mix the peroxide and acetone in one container, so long as it remains cool. Don't forget to bring several frozen gel-packs (preferably in a Styrofoam chiller deceptively marked "perishable foods"), a thermometer, a large beaker, a stirring rod, and a medicine dropper. You're going to need them. It's best to fly first class and order Champagne. The bucket full of ice water, which the airline ought to supply, might possibly be adequate - especially if you have those cold gel-packs handy to supplement the ice, and the Styrofoam chiller handy for insulation - to get you through the cookery without starting a fire in the lavvie Once the plane is over the ocean, very discreetly bring all of your gear into the toilet. You might need to make several trips to avoid drawing attention. Once your kit is in place, put a beaker containing the peroxide / acetone mixture into the ice water bath (Champagne bucket), and start adding the acid, drop by drop, while stirring constantly. Watch the reaction temperature carefully. The mixture will heat, and if it gets too hot, you'll end up with a weak explosive. In fact, if it gets really hot, you'll get a premature explosion possibly sufficient to kill you, but probably no one else. After a few hours - assuming, by some miracle, that the fumes haven't overcome you or alerted passengers or the flight crew to your activities - you'll have a quantity of TATP with which to carry out your mission. Now all you need to do is dry it for an hour or two.
    link

    MISSION ACOMPLISHED The Climate of Fear

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#11)
    by Bill Arnett on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 10:30:18 AM EST
    "He should also remember that it was the almost total lack of security, when ran by the airlines pre 9/11, that contributed greatly to where we are today." ppj Actually it was a vacationing president who received more than ample warning of a coming attack and chose to do nothing that caused 9/11. Box-cutter, small knives, and scissors are again being allowed on flights, so if you presume that this alone allowed the hijackers the ability to take control you are woefully uninformed. The hijackers, by report, used box-cutters to cut the throats of airline attendants in order to gain entry to cockpits. The mere fact that those doors are now virtually impenetrable would preclude this happening again. And the fact is that even if they had no "weapons" it is just as easy to kill with your bare hands (eight years of karate and two black-belts taught me that, but it wouldn't require that level of skill) and achieve the same ends. Yes, this airline official is correct. All these new security measures are simply to keep the public scared, confused, and to make them obey authority figures. It is wasteful, time consuming, does not enhance the safety of the aircraft, and costs tons of money. Sealed cockpits and the willpower to resist breaching that seal because someone is being threatened with death would be sufficient to prevent another 9/11. soccerdad did a wonderful job above at describing the extreme difficulty of any such attack as authorities claim were going to be attempted from Britain, so I need not even go into that. Bombs in cargo holds pose a much greater threat, e.g., Lockerbie, and all this stressing people out and jerking them around for hours just to board is ridiculous.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#12)
    by Kitt on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 12:07:16 PM EST
    Bombs in cargo holds pose a much greater threat, e.g., Lockerbie, and all this stressing people out and jerking them around for hours just to board is ridiculous.
    Exactly...When this sh*t first hit, it was OK to pack all gels, pastes, lotions, liquids, etc., in your luggage but you couldn't carry it on nor have it in your carry-on baggage. Sooo - the cargo hold was fair game, just not the cabin. Now if this was 'my' immediate thought, it's pretty obvious they don't think, and certainly don't think things thru. Fear-mongering kneejerk reactions.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 12:42:02 PM EST
    As usual, these ridiculous wot tactics create serious negative economic problems, without any corresponding increase in safety. But then, they were never intended for passenger safety, only to generate political support for those hawking fear. Airport Duty-Free Shops Hurt By Terror Alert
    Since airports around the world went into high alert after a foiled terrorist plot, restrictions on transporting liquids have cut deeply into duty-free commerce. ... The industry has been hit hard around the world, with London's Heathrow Airport the worst-affected because of its role as a key operator for North American flights, industry analyst Martin Moodie wrote in an e-mail last week.
    More...

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 12:58:23 PM EST
    Bill: Bombs in cargo holds pose a much greater threat, e.g., Lockerbie, and all this stressing people out and jerking them around for hours just to board is ridiculous. Exactly. And anyone with the equivalent of high school chemistry knowledge, you or me and probably even some of the bedwetting 'security above all' nuts here, can make a bomb out of containers of separate chemicals such as those banned, with a timer that will start a mixing process and a detonator, and pack it into unchecked luggage and put it on a plane. So much for fear-mongering kneejerk reactions.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 12:59:39 PM EST
    That should read "checked" luggage.

    PPJ is on the right track, but sadly he stopped short. The problem isn't that this guy doesn't see the threat (he forgot to put on his Conservoblogger SeriousGoggles 3000) but that nobody sees the real, more serious threat: Explosives in the water supply. Yes, you read that right. They're gonna put RDX into the water fountains out in the terminal and impurify our precious bodily fluids before we ever reach the metal detector. And then they'll put a tiny electric detonator on that little valve in the bottom of the airplane toilet and, well, you do the math. Our precious bodily fluids...

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 04:12:37 PM EST
    latest update on the london terrerists: according to the Brits they had hydrogen peroxide and electrical components. Can I see a show of hands who on this group has H2O2 and 'electrical components' in their home? Remember, this is a country that shot an innocent guy in the head 8 times because he was ... I'm sorry, why did they shoot him in the head!?

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    Can I see a show of hands who on this group has H2O2 and 'electrical components' in their home? I do. And I know how to use 'em, too. ;-)

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 04:32:20 PM EST
    So... where are all the justifications from the wingnuts for banning all that evil toothpaste, shampoo, perfume, booze, and other murderous liquids and gells from planes. Don't they want to pertect us nomore? Whatever happened to the WOT (war on toiletries)?

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#21)
    by Kitt on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 05:38:11 PM EST
    Remember, this is a country that shot an innocent guy in the head 8 times because he was ... I'm sorry, why did they shoot him in the head!?
    Well, let's see.... 1. He was wearing a heavy coat, unnecessary for London weather in summer, doncha know. 2. He didna stop when ordered. 3. He was 'brown' - (kinda Muslim-looking). 4. He had wires coming out of his heavy coat sleeve (eyewitness account) 5. Oh yeah, he jumped the turnstile. 6. He had beady eyes. 7. Did I mention he was 'brown'. 8. He drew first; thus, self-defense. There...eight. At any rate, Mr. O'Leary's argument is still valid.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:54:48 PM EST
    Bill A - You wrote:
    Sealed cockpits and the willpower to resist breaching that seal because someone is being threatened with death would be sufficient to prevent another 9/11.
    Indeed. Correct. Unless the terrorist has a bomb and/or guns. If he has a bomb he doesn't need in the cockpit. His decision then is one of these. 1. Do I blow it up on takeoff and kill a lot if people in the ground in England. 2. Do I blow it up mid Atlantic and make'em worry about what happened? 3. Do I blow it up on approach abd kill a lot of people in the US. You know Bill, it troubles me to think that you couldn't see the above activities. edger writes:
    So... where are all the justifications from the wingnuts for banning all that evil toothpaste, shampoo, perfume, booze, and other murderous liquids and gells from planes.
    I trust the above will straughten out your thought process. et al - I agree that checked luggage is a HUGE problem and that forcing more checked luggage into an overloaded security system just begs for trouble. Damned if you and damned if you don't.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:56:53 PM EST
    Yeah, Bill, jeeze. Bush KNEW it was going to happen. Had almost 2 months lead time on it, so the story goes. And he let it happen. Go figure. But he's the preznitwit. So it must have been the only way for him to convince the sheep they needed his god given mission to pertect 'em. Makes sense... if you don't think about it too hard.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#25)
    by Johnny on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 09:31:16 PM EST
    Johnny, leaving aside your attempt to slur those of us speak with a southern accent, I will just note that I would feel better about this comments if he wasn't running an airline...
    Oops, I misunderestimated your powers of observation. Not really. I was taking a jab at our less-than-eloquent president.

    My kid (who is 12) came up with this one. At first I kind of ignored it but once I thought it through it seemed pretty smart. Why does the baggage have to go with the passengers? Commercial flights into the US arrive at a relatively few major hub airports from a relatively few major hub airports world-wide. If all baggage were required to be checked then running a regular cargo service between hubs carrying baggage only in suitably 'kevlared' aircraft would go a long way towards containing the problem. The major carriers could probably fund this on the fuel savings they would make by not flying the baggage themselves. What do you guys think ?

    Of course I think it really sucks that a 12 year old has to spend time worrying about ways to avoid being blown up on a plane.

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 05:24:27 AM EST
    snodgrass - Double costs for one thing. Coordination another. et al - At first I thought the solution was to have everyone fly in the nude. Then I took a look at my body and decided I didn't want to inlict cruel and unusual punishment on my fellow passangers... Of course the coffee wouldn't hot enough to do any serious damages.

    Hi Jim, -Double costs for one thing. Possibly true, although at least some of the cost of transporting the weight is the fuel which would be saved on the flights hauling passengers only. It's pretty much a given now that costs are going to go up in order to combat the terrorist threat whatever solution is chosen. -Coordination That was my first thought also when the kid punted the idea. Then I thought it over a little. If check in opens 4 hours before a flight and was closed 1 hour before departure then at any point in time it would be possible to fly 3 hours worth of checked luggage from a major hub airport to a major hub airport at least an hour ahead of any passengers. On a typical day that three hour window could cover up to 20 flights from, say, Heathrow to JFK. Baggage could be loaded into separate freight containers for each flight to be covered, which would make the unloading, and distribution at the target airport pretty straightforward. I'll admin I didn't take it much beyond that but the logistics seem manageable and the industry is full of guys who figure that kind of thing out for a living. Suppose 50% of carriers went with this model and 50% went with the current bomb lottery who would you fly with ? Airline A, who can guarantee you that nothing dangerous has been brought aboard by passengers. Airline B, who have given it their best shot but, hey, sh*t happens. Personally I'd be looking very seriously at Airline A, even at a premium. -At first I thought the solution was to have everyone fly in the nude Ah, the old cellophane suite at the psychiatrist approach, "I can clearly see you're nuts" - Then I took a look at my body Navel contemplation, I thought you were Airforce ? I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but it's a possible solution. Pointing the kid at the economy next ! "Out of the mouths of babes..."

    Re: Airline Boss: 'Terrorists Are Laughing in Thei (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 08:39:10 AM EST
    Snodgrass - Pardon my attempt at humor..

    Jim, -Pardon my attempt at humor nothing to forgive, no worse than my own . I note from another thread you were in fact Navy and not Airforce. Apology tendered.