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The State of The Death Penalty

An editorial in today's Washington Post is titled The Year in Death, examining national trends on the use of the death penalty. After noting the decline in the number of executions America in recent years, it gives Texas a well-deserved kick in the butt:

Texas as usual has the dubious honor of leading the nation in death -- by a country mile. The Lone Star State killed 23 people, more than three times the seven executions that second-place Ohio carried out.

It concludes:

Capital punishment in this country is not going to be abolished overnight. And it is surely premature to venture the prediction that the past five years are the beginning of its final decay. It is not, however, too soon to venture that hope.

This being the New Year, I'd like to once again thank Rev. Mr. George W. Brooks, JD, Director of Advocacy, Kolbe House, Chicago. Every morning, there are at least five and usually more news articles on the death panalty sitting in my email box when I turn on the computer. Many of them are regional articles I would not have seen but for Rev. Brooks. He does an incredible job of scouring the news for these articles, and he makes the task of bringing them to TalkLeft readers much easier.

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  • Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 10:43:09 AM EST
    The problems with someone in Washington DC kicking someone in TX in the butt are: 1> The relative murder and ADW rates of the two areas. (In Washington it may be more dangerous to be a citizen than a death row inmate in TX - but I can't be bothered to do the maths right now) 2> The people of Washinton DC have been disarmed by their unelected officials, while the people in TX enjoy a must-issue CCW state. In any case, ain't Federalism wonderful? -C

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 11:38:31 AM EST
    I live in Florida and think we're second in number of executions. Actually, I'm proud to say that I support capital punishment.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 11:46:41 AM EST
    Cliff and Kim, It's a phony issue. To pretend the death penalty is going to end crime in the United States is to fool people, to promote public ignorance. My sentiments exactly, but the words actually belong to St. Rudy

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 12:12:29 PM EST
    Portia - Uh, thanks, whatever. I guess I wonder why you think I care what Rudy G thinks about the death penalty? I am (cautiously) in favor of the death penalty and mostly only if the sentencing structure is reformed so that is applied more evenly. And prefereably more frequently. And I am in favor it because: 1> The cost of maintaining a convict is very high. 2> Dead men commit no additional crimes. Oh, and before the smears begin, I am strongly in favor of insignificant crimes being punished by house arrest as opposed to incarceration. -C

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 01:18:52 PM EST
    1. It is more expensive to execute than to imprison. 2. Innocent men executed by the state dont commit any more crimes either. 3. It is not a deterent to crime. 4. We share the same moral 'high ground' as places like Iran, North Korea and Saudi Arabia while the rest of the western world moves away from such barbarian tactics. I love it, you cautiously support killing people...good on ya matey, lol!

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 02:03:12 PM EST
    sigh - Well, whatever. In my world there are bad people and they deserve to die. We just had a serial rapist picked up in Durham. Police figure he's been responsible for raping (and occasionally killing) over 15 women in the last three years. He's left a trail of DNA so they're prety sure they go the right guy. And they found panties in his car on a DUI stop. And he's apparently confessed. And he's 17. Every tax dollar that supports this guy is raised at the cost of time from citizens - because we mostly make money by spending time at work. So in your world I should spend less time with my kids in order to support a serial murderer/rapist? Yeah, man, I'm firmly in favor of certain forms of penalty. -C

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 02:17:46 PM EST
    LOL yeah C thats it...I want you to work so many extra hours that you never see your family any more...in fact I want you to deliver delicous fillet mignons and bottles of expensive wine to all felons who are busy golfing at country club prisons after raping entire villages and burning them to the ground. Perhaps we could give them valet parking as well? Furthermore, we should force everyone to sell their bibles in order to buy prisoners top of the line PC's so they to can participate in the womnderful world of the internet. In my world the state doesnt kill people. I'll leave that for places like I mentioned above.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 04:36:31 PM EST
    sigh - Well, assuming you're an American, in your world the state does kill people. The military kills people. The judicial system kills people. H*ll, the DOT kills people by not installing speed bumps on the highway and gates on every RR crossing. And you are welcome to donate all your time (and thus money) to the uses that the government sees fit, though you'll get a better deal in Sweden than in, say, NY state. -C

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 04:36:38 PM EST
    Something is seriously wrong with our Corrections and justice system. Death penalty is just one of the most debated aspects. To get to the root of the problems, you have to ask what is the system for? 1. Is it for rehabilitation and return to society of people who have committed a crime? 2. Is it for public safety by incarcerating dangerous people? 3. Is it meant primarily as a crime deterrent? Number 1 and 2 are my choices with probably a 70/30% focus. Maybe 80/20% I think prison in general does a pretty poor job as deterrent. Criminals often seem almost tragi-comically deluded about their chance of being caught.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#10)
    by wishful on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 06:21:56 PM EST
    ca, it makes sense that the deterrent effect of prison is weak at best. Weakening it even furthur, we are putting more and more of our citizens in prison, for longer sentences, at lower and lower levels of "criminality", and adding new crime definitions regularly, etc. Soon, prison's deterrent effect, if it exists, will be less than zero. Nearly everyone will have a relative in prison. It will just be business as usual. As for the death penalty, its deterrent effect has already been shown to be nonexistent, rehabilitation is clearly not a result, and the safety of society can be addressed by a life without parole sentence. Banning the death penalty may have the beneficial effect of helping to save the soul of the nation and its people.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 07:13:01 PM EST
    thank God.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 08:06:26 PM EST
    Karl - thank you for the joining the discussion. The DP shames us all. We are our brothers keeper. Can any of you imagine how David Spences family and friends continue to suffer? A sentence of life without parole would have given him the chance. I remember the case well. He had some really good people fighting for him. You would have thought with as much evidence as there was, that our leaders would have at the least commuted his sentence instead of murdering him.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 08:51:30 PM EST
    Cliff is wrong when he asserts that it costs more to imprison for life than to sentence to death. A death sentence leads to 10-20 years of litigation, with sides on the public dime. Murderers sentenced to life in prison without parole, by contrast, aren't entitled to wave after wave of litigation at public expense.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 09:29:03 PM EST
    His name was David Spence. Texas under George Bush strapped him to a gurney, stuck a needle in his arm and killed him. Spence had a co-defendant who was likewise sentenced to death, but, due to an error in his case at trial. His case was reversed on appeal. The appellate court granted a new trial. Spence's wasn't so lucky. After his attorneys had lost almost all appeals the state turned over documents indicating someone else confessed to the murders before the bodies were found (amongst staging amounts of other hidden evidence). Spence's co-defendant was able to use this evidence at his new trial to win his case and walked out of the courtroom a free man. For Spence, caught in the net of the Texas death machine it was too late. The death penalty is dying. Stories like Spence's, ordinary guys exonerated by DNA like Ray Krone, victim's family members like Renny Cushing & Bill Pelk, as well as international pressure by every other western industrial democracy, is one of the reasons it will wither and die on the vine. 2004 saw the smallest number of executions in a almost a decade. It saw, according to initial accounts, a smaller number of death sentences, it saw two state supreme courts step back from the abyss. 2005 appears ready to see winnowing of the death penalty to exclude its use for juveniles, mounting international pressure (as noted by the EU's brief in Medellin) to abolish, and potentially two additional states moving giving up capital punishment. Although 2005 will see some downsides (such as the first execution in New England in 40 years and likely restoration in Kansas), the march away from the death penalty is picking up an undeniable pace. - k PS As always forgive the typos.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 10:58:11 PM EST
    Cliff is also wrong when he states that the DOT kills people by not putting speed bumps on highways (what an odd thing to suggest..I would think that wouls lead to more accidents and fatalities....but who said the right wing made sense?) And in typical right-wing fashon, he deliberatly tries to confuse the issue by changing the subject from the death penalty to the military and DOT. Like most of them, he resorts to mis-direction and absurdities in a vain attempt to justify indefensible positions. I noticed in an earlier post a few days ago that he was excluded from the ranks of trolls...why? He is a troll; just a slightly more literate one. Why would someone who disagrees with virtually everything said on this site spend so much time on it? Kind of creepy, I think. How many of the liberals on these forums hang out on right wing forums ALL THE TIME? He clearly is not someone who is going to come around on any of these issues. He will probably moan and complain about liberal censorship and persecution, the whole time missing the point entirely. He can do what he wants; Im not out to ban him from anything, I like people like that out in the open where I can see them. But I'm not going to sit around and pander to him and play into his identity as a profession victim.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 05:16:34 AM EST
    Rehabilitation? The Texas system used to be called the Texas Deprtment of Corrections. In the 1990's it was changed to its current name - The Texas Department of Criminal Justice. Seems like they're conceding something here.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 10:12:30 AM EST
    I suggest people read about Clive Stafford Smith, a UK lawyer who has spent 20 years defending death row inmates pro bono. It's nice to know there are some good people in the world. Some of 'em are even lawyers. (No offence Jeralyn ;-)

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 04:27:43 PM EST
    Killing somebody for a crime after the fact is neither a correction nor a punishment. At best, the death penalty is vengeance. At worst, it is state-sanctioned murder. The hypocricy is that one person kills somebody because he thinks God told him to is wrong, and another person executes somebody because the state tells him to is right. *The cost to bring somebody through execution in Texas is comparable to the cost of a 43-year imprisonment. *Innocent people are wrongly executed. *Violent crimes surge in the two days following an execution--violence begets violence. *While most peope who support the death penalty are quite religious, it boggles the mind how hypocritical even they are in such issues. "An eye for an eye" is Old Testament. Love you brother and forgive his sins is New Testament. Uh, we'll just choose this passage instead of what Jesus said.

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 05:52:18 PM EST
    Sister Helen Prejean (Dead Man Walking) has a new book out.."Death of Innocents: An Eyewitness Account of Wrongful Executions."

    Re: The State of The Death Penalty (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 07:06:56 AM EST
    Thank you Mr. Brooks!