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Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution

Sharia law may be coming to Iraq. This certainly isn't what the Bush Administration had in mind for the new Iraqi government. But Bush-backed candidate Prime Minister Ayad Allawi is behind in the vote tally to the United Iraqi Alliance.

It was the country's most revered Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who initially demanded speedy elections, knowing that a popular vote would bring to power a legitimate government run by the majority Shiites. When the Bush administration objected, the ayatollah forced the White House to back down by calling protesters into the streets of Iraq.

"Sistani and the other grand ayatollahs will press for as much Shariah - or Islamic law - as possible in Iraqi law," said Juan Cole, a history professor and specialist in Shiite Islam at the University of Michigan. "They can afford to be patient if they can't push through everything now."

The first casualty of an Islamic-based Constitution will be equality between the sexes, which is rather ironic when you consider how many women voted in last Sunday's election:

The clerics generally agree that the constitution must ensure that no laws passed by the state contradict a basic understanding of Shariah as laid out in the Koran. Women should not be treated as the equals of men in matters of marriage, divorce and family inheritance, they say. Nor should men be prevented from having multiple wives, they add.

One tenet of Shariah mandates that in dividing family property, male children get twice as much as female children. "We don't want to see equality between men and women because according to Islamic law, men should have double of women," said Muhammad Kuraidy, a spokesman for Ayatollah Yacoubi. "This is written in the Koran and according to God."

Will the Kurds and Sunnis stop the theocratic-minded Shiites?

A former administration official said the White House was relying on veto power by the Kurds and possibly the Sunni Arabs to limit any moves toward a Shiite theocracy.

The Sunnis are not exactly on Bush's team: They are demanding a timetable for the U.S. exit from Iraq as the price for participating in the drafting of a new Iraqi Constitution.

Many observers believe that the constitution, which the national assembly is supposed to draw up, will only command nationwide respect if the Sunni Arab elite that dominated all previous governments, is drawn into the process.

For more expert analysis, visit Professor Juan Cole . For more on the election results, go here.

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  • Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 01:05:18 AM EST
    After killings of thousands of Iraqi civilians, Iraqi women will have now to dress like "patatoes-bag" and won't be allowed to go to school anymore. It is a great victory for democracy.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#2)
    by scarshapedstar on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 02:11:34 AM EST
    Well, I imagine this presents a quandary for wingnuts. What's the LGF headline going to be? Freedom-loving Iraqis turned into Islamofascists by Dan Rather and the French!

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#3)
    by Andreas on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 03:11:41 AM EST
    For decades following the overthrow of the British and US-backed monarchy, millions of Iraqi workers, whether Shiite, Sunni or Kurdish, gave their political allegiances to the Stalinist Communist Party, wrongly believing it to be a genuine socialist and anti-imperialist organisation. Shia fundamentalism and Kurdish nationalism only began to developed significant support after the bloody Baathist suppression of the working class in 1978. The bloodbath was directly facilitated by the refusal of the ICP to conduct an open struggle against the regime, which it had promoted as representing the progressive wing of the ruling elite. The voting patterns last Sunday can only be understood in the context of this complex history. The election was not an endorsement of the US invasion and occupation. It was above all a reflection of the confused but deeply-held aspirations of ordinary Iraqis for lasting social change and an end to decades of political repression. The parties making up the Shia List, along with Sistani, promoted the illusion that the election would be the means both for bringing a quick end to the American military presence in Iraq and for creating a government that will be attentive to the outstanding social needs of the millions of Shiite working class and rural poor.
    Iraq election sets stage for escalating political turmoil By James Cogan, 5 February 2005

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 06:43:51 AM EST
    It's their country. If they choose a sharia-based political and legal system, so be it. It will be their loss, but it's their country and they should be free to choose such if they wish.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 07:07:40 AM EST
    Not so fast, French, Scar, and... Decisions will now be by vote and consensus, followed by more elections. Sharia law talk is premature.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#6)
    by Pete Guither on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 07:18:35 AM EST
    I don't know, justpaul -- it's a bit confusing. It seems to me that the most recent of the 6 or 8 justifications for going to war with Iraq (previous ones having been discarded and retroactively disavowed) is that the people of Iraq desire freedom, and we're there to give it to them. And so, after thousands upon thousands of deaths, we'll ready to proclaim that freedom is... women in slavery? Freedom doesn't allow a brutal dicatator. True. But it also doesn't allow the tyranny of the majority over the minority. Freedom is not just voting -- they voted under Saddam. Freedom is the Bill of Rights, the ability to speak your mind and be secure in your person and possessions and your home. Freedom is the ability to read whatever you want, worship in your own way, and associate with whom you please. People who use the word "Freedom" all the time in their speeches should learn what it means.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 07:30:34 AM EST
    The nation should be partitioned if there is no alternative to civil war. Then the USA can pack up and leave. Clyde

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 07:47:24 AM EST
    Pete, Freedom is a wonderful thing, but it's not the Bill of Rights. That's our version of freedom. If the people of Iraq choose a sharia-based system (and they haven't done so yet), how do we justify stopping them? We claim to be there to promote democracy. If they democratically choose such a system, that is their right. I would rather not see that happen, but forcing our version of freedom on them would hardly be promoting freedom. The world gets messy this way sometimes. Not everything is B&W.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 08:09:58 AM EST
    Keep your eye on the pea under the shell here. According to Dahr Jamail's reporting, the "deal" is that we put the Shiites in power in exchange for access to Iraq's oil and allowing five permanent military bases to make sure we keep it "What they're Not Telling You about the 'Election'". Simple. Pay particular attention to the 12/22/04 speech cited of Iraqi finance minister Abdel Mahdi (a candidate for the SCIRI majority shiite party) at the National Press Club in Washington where he says: "that Iraq wants to issue a new oil law that would open Iraq's national oil company to private foreign investment. As Mahdi explained: "So I think this is very promising to the American investors and to American enterprise, certainly to oil companies." In other words, Mahdi is proposing to privatize Iraq's oil and put it into American corporate hands."

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 08:10:13 AM EST
    Pete, they don't all live in nice little seperate corners, unfortunately. We know how badly forced transportation of whole ethnic groups works, so there really isn't any way to do it.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 08:11:16 AM EST
    Sorry, Clyde, not Pete.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 08:31:22 AM EST
    If the election has not in fact gone exactly the way the Bush league directed it to go -- Shia power base lets halliburton.gov have dibs on the oil -- and with the sportscasters having all subscribed to the Bush league pledge of "free elections more or less, as long as they're halfway round the world not here" -- will they let it stand? Or is there going to be some new rationale -- Sadaam was behind the push for an election so we have to throw the rascals out, by force if necessary, and the negotiating period announced this morning ended yesterday at noon?

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 08:31:59 AM EST
    jackl - Well, what's wrong with private enterprise? It has done wonders for the western world. On the other hand, look at Iran, look at SA, look at Iraq, etc. State ownership has done nothing but support corrupt regimes and dictators. et al - BTW - My paper says the Sunnis now want in to the process. Guess they finally figured out the train was leaving without them.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 09:07:58 AM EST
    Context "The groups were mainly small movements and it was not clear whether they represent a major portion of the Sunni Arab community"

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 09:08:43 AM EST
    still waiting for the real turnout figures

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 09:43:28 AM EST
    Well, this is at least a change from the brutal afgan winter, the rivers of blood in bagdhad, the humanitarian disaster, and, of course, the impossibility of having open elections in Iraq. Can ya'll tell us what's next when this doesn't pan out? -C

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 10:55:39 AM EST
    Don't worry, Cliff. When this fails to pan out it will be something else. For the left there's always another tunnel at the end of the light.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#18)
    by soccerdad on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 12:28:47 PM EST
    It must be so nice to be as blissful as Duece and cliff.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 12:37:17 PM EST
    soccer - You taking something for that Democrat acid reflux? In related news I hear Gore has tossed his hat into the ring for 2008. Gore vs. Hilary vs. Kerry. Rove is probably shaking hands with shorty over the mere idea. -C

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 12:41:33 PM EST
    Cliff- keep those fairtales going around in that empty head of yours

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jlvngstn on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 01:08:19 PM EST
    Every speech that Bush has given since the absence of WMD's eluded to the greatness of spreading "democracy" throughout the world especially in the middle east. His promises that this war will spread democracy and create change in the middle east have been the primary justification sans WMD, so how is an Islamic gov't attaining that goal? I agree with Justpaul when he speaks about the "will of the people" and it is their choice, but doesn't the president of the US owe it to the people of the US to explain to us that democracy comes in all forms including this type of gov't? It will be another significant failure if it is an Islamist gov't and not the democracy our administration has been promising. Religious based governments do not work and are not "freedom" based. I hope we use our influence to make sure it does not happen as the mantra of "spreading freedom" has been the light at the end of the tunnel, however it appears that the light once again is a train.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 02:50:48 PM EST
    lol, Cliff don´t you start sweating over election 08 and the dems taking back power..you´ve got four more Rovian years to party.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 03:22:23 PM EST
    Soccerdad: blissful? No, not quite. You called me delusional when I said Bush would win the election in November. A friend of mine, with whom I disagree totally on politics and who worked for ACT thru the last election, at least said congrats to me. But he has class. You don't.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#24)
    by soccerdad on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 03:25:37 PM EST
    Why should I say congrats when i feel so strongly about Bush and you've done nothing but denigrate me and my ideas. So thanks for the faux indignation and self rightous crap.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 04:30:44 PM EST
    Its interesting to watch the wingnuts go orgasmic at the thought of bombing Iran while at the same time toting the election in iraq, the outcome of which may lead to an Iranian sympathic Islamic Government. Of course one of the reasons we backed Saddam against Iran was to prevent the spread of the Iranian "revolution" across the mideast especially towards SA. That was why the US could tolerate anything Saddam did. Iraq was a buffer between SA and Iran. So now thanks to the greed amd arrogance of Bush the younger, a series of events may have been set in motion that will lead to a more unified Islamic entity. The rise of the Shias is likely to embolden other shiites in other countries currently ruled by Sunnis. There is more talk out of Europe today that the US and Israel have put the final touches on plans to strike at Iran's nuclear facilities. Iran would likely choose to fight the US in Iraq rather than wait for an invasion of its country. I suspect Bush will find a way to let the insurgency continue which is the only leverage he has. The other approach would to let Negroponte do his thing in which case Sistani better have plenty of security and not venture out into public. Its unlikely that Bush and the neocrazies are just going to let this go into the toilet.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 05:10:00 PM EST
    SD writes - "Iran would likely choose to fight the US in Iraq rather than wait for an invasion of its country." Iran doesn't get to choose where it will fight. BTW - Do you ever think before you lay one of these on us? But I do find it amusing that you agree with my past statements re our support for Saddam in the 80's. Of course that was predicated on the US being pretty well still beat up from Vietnam, and unwilling to get involved. And why should we? We had two countries that we had no use for, killing each other. Win- Win for us.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 06:14:53 PM EST
    Could be a problem, Sistani rarely leaves his home. can´t exactly aerial bomb and blame it on a suicide bombing, wouldn´t look good in the media.. However, Sistani is 75 years old and some suggest that Ayatolla Najafi, who has expressed vehemently anti-American sentiments, could be next in line.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 07:57:16 PM EST
    Iran doesn't get to choose where it will fight. BTW - Do you ever think before you lay one of these on us?
    Are you really that dense. Of course they can. They can send people to infilitrate Iraq, supply them with more weapons, etc. No it was predicated on the fact that the US would always rather have proxies do the dirty work when ever possible. I'm sure that Negroponte would have no problem knocking off multiple clerics, of course the blowback might be huge. If the shiites rose up against the US it would pretty much be over. Helicopters to the green zone please. The only other alternative would be to kill a couple hundred thousand more.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#29)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 10:14:33 PM EST
    Should have left the Baathists in power. They were more secular. Oh well, maybe next time. Also too bad Chimpy opened his pie hole in 2000. Iran was slowly making some headway in reform. But after the old Axis-of-evil speech, the Ayatollahs were even more empowered.

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 06:26:56 AM EST
    So, in a nutshell; thousands dead and billions spent to get an Islamic fundamentalist regime aligned with Iran? By god George, what have you done? If it's what Iraq wants, to each his own, but did we have to get thousands of kids killed and spend billions to make it happen?

    Re: Shiites Push for Islamic Constitution (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 01:10:32 PM EST
    Also too bad Chimpy opened his pie hole in 2000. Iran was slowly making some headway in reform. But after the old Axis-of-evil speech, the Ayatollahs were even more empowered.
    Good point Che, I've got a buddy who's from Iran who tells me the same thing. Things were getting better there for the reformers, until all the pre-emptive war business got the gov't cracking down on reform.