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Empowering Cops With a Needle

You'd have to live in a cave not to know that if you're driving and get stopped by a cop, he or she can ask you to take a breath or blood test, and if you refuse, you lose your license for a while. But you also expect that if you choose the blood test, the cops will take you to a hospital or other place where a medical professional draws your blood.

That's changing. Utah now allows cops to needle you themselves, right at the site of the traffic stop. The reason seems to be it saves the state money. Other states plan on following suit. Can this be constitutional? I don't think so. DUI blog provides these thoughts.

In 1966, the United States Supreme Court in Schmerber v. California was confronted with the issue of whether drawing blood from a DUI suspect over his objection constituted a violation of the Fourth Amendment. In that case, the suspect had been taken to a hospital for a blood draw; the suspect refused to consent to the test, but did not resist as a physician withdrew a sample.

The Court affirmed the conviction, holding that a nonconsensual draw without a warrant was constitutionally permissible under the circumstances. But in doing so, the Court clearly distinguished the circumstances which made it permissible:

...Finally, the record shows that the test was performed in a reasonable manner. Petitioner's blood was taken by a physician in a hospital environment according to accepted medical practices. We are thus not presented with the serious questions which would arise if a search involving use of a medical technique, even of the most rudimentary sort, were made by other than medical personnel or in other than a medical environment — for example, if it were administered by police in the privacy of the stationhouse. To tolerate searches under these conditions might be to invite an unjustified element of personal risk of infection and pain....

The state will argue that the cops sticking you with a needle have taken a course and obtained a medical certification. Can that possibly be enough? Consider the Schmerber Court's final admonition:

We thus conclude that the present record shows no violation of petitioner's right under the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures. It bears repeating, however, that we reach this judgment only on the facts of the present record. The integrity of an individual's person is a cherished value of our society. That we today hold that the Constitution does not forbid the States minor intrusions into an individual's body under stringently limited conditions in no way indicates that it permits more substantial intrusions, or intrusions under other conditions. 348 U.S. 771

This needs to be tested in the appeals courts, and soon. Before someone gets hurt or dies:

Ignoring the pain, injury and infection aspects for the moment, bear in mind that: the blood must be taken from a vein, not an artery (which has a higher blood-alcohol concentration); the skin must be swabbed with an approved antiseptic (not isopropyl alcohol, which can raise the blood-alcohol concentration); the correct amount must be taken, with no contamination from the officer; it must be placed in a sterile and sealed vial; an approved preservative in the correct amount must be added and mixed in (to prevent fermentation, which increases BAC); an anti-coagulant (to prevent clotting, which increases BAC) must also be added, again in the correct amounts; etc.....

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    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 02:13:11 AM EST
    Forget the rights of the drunk drivers--what about the rights of the cops! Why should they be forced to come in contact with the blood of complete strangers!

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 03:14:26 AM EST
    Good point. Late at night on the side of the road isn't exactly a controlled environment for doing this kind of thing -- whether for infection control or fluid exposure. There's another aspect of this to consider. There's a cop on the side of the road with a gun on his hip. He has both hands occupied with the suspect's arm and his attention focused on drawing the blood sample. Meanwhile, the victim's other hand is free. That's a pretty vulnerable situation for the cop, if you ask me. As far as constitutionality goes, if the State can compel you to give a blood sample I don't think it matters who draws it -- it's still a search.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#3)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 06:20:47 AM EST
    If they want to draw my blood they will have to fight me for it.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 06:48:53 AM EST
    If this is being done to save money, I can see someone somewhere reasoning "why do we need to spend money on cotton swabs or alcohol?" or even" can't we re-use the needles again?" Honestly, how much is the state going to save the day someone sues them for being accidently infected with hepatitis or AIDS? Leave this one in the hands of professional health workers if any blood's going to be drawn!

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 06:54:10 AM EST
    Let's back it up a step and revisit how it is constitutional for the state to require you to prove your innocence in the first place. If they can make you prove you weren't driving drunk, they can make you prove you didn't kill someone too. The Fifth Amendment becomes meaningless.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 07:12:49 AM EST
    This is Colossal stupid. "Step out of the car please and roll up your sleeve..."

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 07:21:04 AM EST
    Somehow, I just can't imagine ANY officer being pleased with the prospect of becoming a half-assed phlebotomist. The risk of infection on both sides, not to mention the liability of the state (insurance rates won't be affected by this?) is certainly cause for pause. Don't the citizens of Utah have enough or ANY balls to stop this intrusive maneuver? If this goes into effect, if I were an Utah officer, I know exactly whose blood I'd want to draw first!

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#8)
    by Patrick on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 07:42:42 AM EST
    I wouldn't want to do it, but some of the comments are a little off base. Justpaul, There are bucket loads of case law that say taking blood (and other bodily fluids) is not a 5th violation. I tend to agree with them, especially in cases where intoxication is an issue, and where the body will naturally "Destroy" the evidence via metabolism. Pig, The whole point of the consequences for a refusal is to avoid a physical confrontation to get the blood. In some cases you can refuse and the cops don't care...In fact it makes the job easier, less evidence to book and the suspect looks guilty to the jury. So your choice. In other cases, such as felony assaults and DUI with injury, they will get the blood sample even if it means fighting you for it. I've seen it done. And the charges just keep stacking the more you fight & resist. So again, your choice.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 07:54:11 AM EST
    I've seen professionals have difficulty drawing blood when the veins are not big and standing out perfectly. I've had them dig around in my arm awhile before I nearly fainted myself. This could get very ugly.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 08:43:01 AM EST
    It may be more efficacious for the officer to simply stike the victim on the head with his large wooden stick and then sop up the resulting fluid with a dipstick rag.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#13)
    by Patrick on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 10:30:05 AM EST
    Dark? Is that you? Or an imposter? LMAO, yeah the defenses frequently go that way, but a good investigation will include when the suspect last drank and a chemist (Or courst expert) will testify as to whether the BAL was going up or down. The article emphasizes the officers will get the training. I wouldn't want to do it, but could see times when it would be more expedient and less costly. In California, if you are found guilty, there is cost recovery built into the fine structure.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 11:12:59 AM EST
    How much money will be saved when a cop sticks a hemophiliac and can't control the bleeding? That could lead to a really expensive wrongful death claim. What would stop all suspects from claiming that they were hemophiliacs?

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 11:22:48 AM EST
    Bleed to death from a needle stick? Yeah, if that could happen there would be a serious lapse in duty, but aren't we getting a tad extreme?

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 11:41:56 AM EST
    I think the idea is just poor for the many reasons people have cited here, and those aren't even ones having anything to do with whether its Constitutional or not. The idea of a cop having to perform a medical procedure with a potentially unstable individual just sounds like an assault waiting to happen. Just lock the car up, throw the guy in the back, and go to a hospital. Is it really worth the handful of bucks it saves to potentially have a situation where a cop could get injured by a needle stick?

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 05:53:51 PM EST
    Another reason why it's a really bad idea: A well-executed blood draw doesn't hurt much; but a poorly executed one (or one that is deliberately botched) can be painful indeed. Letting police officers conduct this procedure gives them the opportunity to use traffic stops to inflict pain on people they don't like. Here's hoping you don't get pulled over for DWB in Utah.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 06:09:53 PM EST
    It's called assault and battery. "Just as every cop is a criminal..."

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 08:11:28 PM EST
    Go ahead, pigwiggle. Fight the cop. Just be sure to post and let us know how turns out so we can see you on "America's Wildest Police Videos."

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 09:56:17 PM EST
    I wish someone would've looked down the road on this. Unfortunately, this practice will probably end when a cop is shot with his own gun or someone sues for police brutality because it took the cop four tries to hit the vein.

    Re: Empowering Cops With a Needle (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:45:39 AM EST
    if you think they can't get the blood from you, check out this story: link (with video)...