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Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 07:50:43 PM EST
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Terri Schiavo is dying. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, today announced he will seek an autopsy for her, to put to rest rumors that he wants her remains cremated as a means of putting to rest rumors that he was in some way responsible for her injuries.

The television coverage of this case has been nothing short of appalling. I'm so sick of this family's dirty laundry being aired 24/7. It started out that I wondered who to believe. Right now, I don't believe any of them - not the parents, the husband or the legions of "friends," former caregivers and acquaintances. There isn't a single one that is not promoting a private agenda, one that far exceeds the bounds of privacy and dignity for a dying woman.

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    Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy | 77 comments (77 topical)
    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#1)
    by Rich on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 08:14:44 PM EST
    As a grad student in psychology, I did a lot of training as a diagnostic interviewerr with court referrals for custody. Those contested custodies were very difficult--one usually believed no one or you'd come to the conclusion that the more capable parent was sometimes someone with significant problems, which would make custody difficult. I figured that the Schiavo case had become that sort of thing--neither side was even close to being angels. It looks like the lawsuit split them apart and, now, there's probably nothing much left except Terri. Sadly, the media has turned that tragedy into a spectacle. Cooler heads finally seem to be prevailing, perhaps, her death will have a little more dignity than her recent life.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#2)
    by cp on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 08:41:12 PM EST
    i must admit TL, i'm a bit baffled. exactly what "agenda", in your opinion, does michael schiavo have, aside from allowing his wife's stated desires, re: her end-of-life scenario., to be carried out? if it's money, he could have walked away a wealthy man, several times already. all of the allegations of abuse, etc., came out after he and her parents couldn't agree on her final situation, not before, or even during their marriage. not one judge in over 20 has lent any credence whatever to these allegations, none, nada, zippo. so, you know something the rest of the class doesn't? care to share that knowledge with us? as my mom, a first and second grade teacher for 30 years, used to say, it isn't nice to bring something to school, and not have enough to share with the entire class. the parents, at first, seemed true believers. although, after 7 years of monumental efforts, with not just no discernible improvement, but a clear degrading of her condition, reasonable people might conclude it was time to let go. michael schiavo finally did, after being told to by her drs. the parents, i think, initially still believed there was real hope, in spite of all medical opinion to the contrary. however, at this point, i think they've just gotten caught up in the hype. no intelligent person could possibly realistically believe ms. schiavo might improve, with proper "rehabilitation". the only proper rehab for her is a cerebral cortex and brain transplant. the issue of the money is, i think, a non-starter. there wasn't that much to begin with, and there isn't that much left. the only people with a real "agenda" here are the parasites who've attached themselves to this poor woman. again, if you have some info on mr. sciavo, that hasn't already been found wanting in substance, let's hear it. otherwise, it's classless of you to make unsupported comments, questioning his motives. shame on you, you should know better!

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 08:44:00 PM EST
    I think the husband clearly proves he has quite a bit of moral character by, you know, endearing the assualt of the religious right so well. I mean think about it. Anyone with religious parents knows that you act more religious around mommy and daddy then you really feel. Of course the husband is doing what his wife wanted. The parents are too dumb to realize their daughter was not as religious as she presented to them. What this is really about. I mean, even if you don't think that the husband is a great guy, you would still have to admit the conditional "if terri expressed wishes to not be kept alive, then the husband is doing the right thing" was true. Then it's just a matter of establishing the antecedent which the courts did about 8 billion times.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:00:10 PM EST
    I have nothing but respect for Micheal Shiavo. He could have divorced his wife, given her care over to her parents, taken the money, and let her rot for the rest of her natural life. Instead he has fought every step of the way (and every penny away too) to make sure she isn't suffering. He rarely speaks in public, unlike the Shiavos who are out there whoring and crying to the protesters and the media, making sure that the 3 ring circus around their daughter continues. And now he's even willing to have the damn autopsy the parents want to prove that he never hurt her. I don't know how that makes him a bad guy.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:11:10 PM EST
    i am a debate student at a highschool in a red state, and i heard about the site "talkleft.com" durring the district meet this year as a source for an argument, i was not sure if i wanted to laugh or throw my pen at the podium but i let tihe kid finish talking to see what he had to say... i just want to point out the hyppocricy that is staring me right in the face, and it honestly scares the poop outta me. yeah, i said poop. rumor has it that governmental control if the internet may be in the future to prevent bloggers and other such "threats" from influencing elections, wait, what is the point of free speech if you cannot get out there what you feel. do we not trust people enough to make their own choices with based on what they know?? 9 people ran for the dem. nominee in the past election, KERYY was the best you all had to offer?!? yikes! i am not advocating every bush belief out there, nor am i sayiong i hate all people who belong to the party represented by an ass, but i am saying that if the left must have free forums of liberal communist ideas discussed, please allow that same freedom to be granted abroad. the US was started based on tollerence and acceptance, look at the history of some blue states for more on that, please dont let einstine be right, "no democracy will ever survive" not in my lifetime anyway. enjoy your freedom, but let others do the same... as for schiavo... Posted by: Jake of 8bitjoystick.com on October 24, 2003 05:47 PM ... Keeping her alive is sick and wrong. removing nutrition is sick and wrong! you go 11+ days without food and see how easy and painless it is, i fwe must kill her, use some morphine or something that will let her go out easy. i am not a member of this site, nor do i wish to be, so for any feedback, email bbmcgee34@sbcglobal.net i don't see how some of you can sleep at night.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:12:09 PM EST
    so terry schiavo has been without food for 11 days now. makes me angry, "it's a painless and easy departure" says husbamd michael schiavo. ok, imagine no food for 11 freaking days, not painless!!! damn morphine woulda been a much better way to go, i have many opinions on that case, sorry ames, they all clash with yours. he denied her treatment for 15 years, when over 30 doctors said she was fixable. he refuses to devorce her tho he has a long time lover and two illegitimate children with her. i am not going to say whether she ought to live or die, that is a choice beyond me, but i do believe that he should have walked away and let the family deal with her. the fact that he will not let go makes me wonder what he has to hide... why didn't he let her have treatment in the beginning, she could be normal now for all we know had she had treatment even 10 years ago. i think he is afraid she will talk, maybe abuse? maybe he stands to make a financial gain from her death so he keeps custody and rushes her death these last few weeks, i am not sure, but he wants her dead for some reason, and it all seems really shady. i guess we will find out in a few days after she dies... or never.....

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#7)
    by glanton on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:24:01 PM EST
    cp: I know what TL means. Like you, I want to believe Michael is above-board in all this, but the whole thing really has been heartbreaking and the coverage disgusting. Michael to me seems as driven by hatred as by staying true to Terri: that's just my two cents. A lot of hatred going around, and we get treated to a Stephen King novel as a bonus. If a loved one of mine found herself at the center of a spectacle like this I'd lose my mind with anger. But there would be noone to lash out at. In a sense we're all complicit, greedy children of this Tabloid age.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 09:52:16 PM EST
    Michael Schiavo has the only shreds of credibility left in this miserable tale. He didn't allow himself to get bought off when he could have traded Terri for cash. That tells me that he was serious about seeing that his wife's wishes, as he understood them, were carried out. Governor Bush's own guardian ad litem told the Florida court that Michael Schiavo had been Terri's most regular visitor and had been most insistent on his wife's care. I am pretty certain the Schindlers are sincere, too, but these people have allowed grief and wishful thinking to take away all rationality and decency. The irrationality is shown by their insistence that Terri can significantly recover from having lost her cerebrum, the thinking part of her brain. The loss of decency is shown by their consorting with scum like Randall Terry (and before they accuse Michael of "abandoning" his wife, the Schindlers should check out Mr. Terry's history). Finally, for the people who are rending their garments, tearing their hair, and strewing ashes over Terri Schiavo's agony: Get a clue, folks. She has no functioning brain; any pain reaction is an unconscious reflex. She's dying of dehydration, which sounds pretty ghastly, but puts you into a state of lassitude (as hospice workers all over the world well know). While this doesn't sound like anything I would like to go through, the absence of a brain would certainly save me from worrying about it. Poor Terri has lingered in her condition for years because her parents don't have the sense to let her go. Why would supposedly good Catholics prevent their daughter from going to heaven? I guess they're too selfish to put her interests about their own. May she rest in peace. At last.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 10:48:47 PM EST
    I have never accused Michael Schiavo of anything. In October, 2003, I noted there were reports that he had a financial interest in whether his wife lived or died. I did not take a position. I have reported both sides of the case and voiced my support of her right to die if that was her decision. I harshly criticized Congress for intervening. I have also said that on a visceral level, I doubted Michael Schiavo's claims that Terri told him that she would not want to live. That's hardly an irrational dislike. It's a gut reaction. But, Michael Schiavo did indeed engage in dirty laundry airing and slimed Terri Schiavo's parents and siblings. That's just a fact. I reported his statements on Larry King Live as I was hearing him make them:
    Michael Schiavo on Larry King: The parents are out for Terri's money. He says Terri's father wanted to know "Where's my money?" in the hospital years ago. .... The parents accused him of trying to strangle her. Why? Because the father wants the money and control. The brother has seen her a handful of times in ten years, he only got interested when the media came around. Schiavo says the brother is lying. His girlfriend has done more for Terri than her own mother. He loves his wife. This is between Terri and himself. [Then why is he going on national tv?] So much dirty laundry on all sides, I really don't want to hear any of it..
    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 10:50:37 PM EST
    As is obvious to other commenters, Talkleft has some sort of irrational dislike of Michael Schiavo. She's attributed motives to him that are clearly illogical, unsupported or contrary to evidence, such as being money-hungry. Comparing his behavior in this matter to the Schindlers and finding them equally bad is stupid. As to this: so terry schiavo has been without food for 11 days now. makes me angry, "it's a painless and easy departure" says husbamd michael schiavo. ok, imagine no food for 11 freaking days, not painless!!! damn morphine woulda been a much better way to go The ignorance of the American public on death and dying is the only thing that allowed this farce to get so out of hand. People are apparently not aware that one of the most common ways people die is when care is withdrawn. That includes withdrawing nutrition - which usually doesn't kill you - and hydration - which does. And morphine and other painkillers are exactly what is used to keep the patient comfortable while they die. It happens many times every day. What's insane is that these "pro-life" idiots will someday want to have the very right to decide their family member's end-of-life care that they are trying to undermine.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 11:03:18 PM EST
    And yet despite finding appalling ...everyone invited to comment on the issue seems to rujn right down to the nearest television studio to do so. Most without even bothering to educate themselves on even the most minimalof facts including the issue of how she is dying. The most disgusting people are those who pretend to have a fact based opinion but got their facts from Nancy Grace

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 11:24:05 PM EST
    I would think you could do with reading the judges own words. Middle of the page, first link that says read. If I'm incapacitated I want Michael Schiavo caring for me. Terri's parents were, shall we say, lacking.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 11:27:59 PM EST
    Will the boys be doing the Autopsy when she is still alive? good god what a non nation under no laws or rights and each day becoming more and more like some third world drug country. oh yes will the parties be selling the human parts or this poor woman?

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 28, 2005 at 11:45:45 PM EST
    Klaatu, the site you link to also states in its FAQ section:
    Did she have a living will? No. If she had, this case would probably never have generated much controversy. The one sure lesson to be taken from all of this is that each of us should have a living will. Florida law permits living wills and defines how and when they may be effective.
    Although "living will" is not the right term. Most experts (and I'm not an expert on this) say people should have an Advanced Directive and a Durable Medical Power of Attorney. Your linked site also says:
    Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case.
    That's the point. It's a credibility call.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:59:22 AM EST
    Will these Democrats next week be advocating death by dehydration for all of America’s retarded? And then congratulating the parents for doing the just thing? They also live a rather miserable life, and by most liberal opinions a life not worth living. When did liberal judges get the right to play “God” by deciding when your life is worth living and when your life isn’t, was that in 1973? Nothing like being a liberal judicial bully and only picking on those incapable of fighting back...

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 04:20:44 AM EST
    Put a sock in it, Burger -- there are people dying in the very same way all over America on any particular day. Autopsy is a gruesome circumstance, but its a direct result of ghouls like you attacking his honor. Since the underlying argument is that science is bunk and only God can heal, this has been one giant Christian Science revival. As the courts have ruled in several cases, this logic has a downside. The SAME view counsels depriving the ill, including children, necessary medical therapies, because prayer is going to fix it all better. The downside is that a lot of people have died from such pre-modern ideas. We do not allow prayer to be the primary method of medical care for ill children. We also do not BELIEVE that prayer can regrow brain tissue. If you do, put up or shut up. The real scandal is that Randall Terry, FOX, and the entire Bible-thumping lot didn't even make the minor miracle of a legal victory, much less the spontaneous regeneration of her deteriorated brain. When will Frist and DeLay give up their places in government and go out and faith-heal the masses? Frist can even tell you what card you are holding (and probably the name of every hooker and Oxycontin dealer in Maryland).

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:11:56 AM EST
    Granted that cops do the "blue wall" around their fellow cops when police get unprofessionally brutal - but I don't see them doing that when the conduct does not involve police work. Michael Schiavo works for the Pinellas County Sheriff's department, in the county jail. Both city and county cops and detectives have worked with him for years. They seem to respect and support his position - viz. the standoff last week with Governor Jeb Bush's state troopers and Department of Children and Families enforcement agencies. Looks to me like there's a fairly good level of experienced judgment going on down at ground level. To say nothing of Judge Greer, who deserves "Thank You" cards from every lawyer in the country for standing up to all this insanity.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:57:17 AM EST
    TL- When Michael Schiavo finally lashed out at the Schindlers I think it was omly after years of being publicly maligned. My God, how would you react after watching your wife linger for years , after caring for her as best you can, after being CRUCIFIED for falling in love with another womwn and wanting a family??? I just saw a news report tha Michael Schiavo's young family spends much of their time sequestered in their home, living with taunts and threats every day? Why would he do this if not to honor Terri's wishes or even just to set her free from the nightmare of her condition and from the control of her lunatic parents?? As an aside, anyone tuning into this circus now for the first time and listening to Bob Schindler talk about how she is fighting for life and trying to communicate would get the impression that as of two weeks ago she was sitting up in bed doing crossword puzzles. The newspapers and programs refuse to reiterate the carefully reviewed medical evidence that this woman's brain has been NONFUNCTIONING for 15 years. TL-I'm really surprised that in spite of all the evidence supporting his position you would jump on the bandwagon and throw stones at Michael Schiavo too.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:05:13 AM EST
    And my last point...All of the dirt started flying in this case when the malpractice suit was brought. Bad case and bad karma. Why would a doctor be responsible for figuring out that she had a potassium imbalance due to bulimia? Bulimics are very good at hiding their condition and they don't appear to be outwardly ill or malnourished. Apparently her family who claims to know her so well didn't know she was abusing herself in this manner. It is sad that she didn't get the help she needed for her eating disorder but for the family to turn around and make money off it is horrible. This was an undeserved windfall and it brought nothing but sorrow to both sides of the family.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:15:25 AM EST
    I was discussing the case w/ the family last night, and the only point we can agree on is that we all have no clue what the truth is. So many agendas, so much spin. This poor woman became a pawn in some kind of crazy Hatfield/McCoy fued between the husband and the family. I mean really, what kind of family can't sit down, talk it through and come to a decision together for their wife/daughter's sake? I'm with TL, the whole lot of them are very strange.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:39:30 AM EST
    The parents are also on record saying even if she had a health care directive they would have opposed it if it conflicted with their view. And unfortunately this is not the first time The Hugh Finn case is the same --and to this day the wife and his parents do not speak. To question Michael Schiavo is to question the sanctity of marriage. The Schindlers and their supporters are the the source of the bad information and have used the tabloid media such as Fox to try to buikd sympathy for their position.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:52:32 AM EST
    I'm with Michael Schiavo on this one. You have these insane religious fanatics screaming, yelling and goosestepping around the cops yesterday. Family member after family member painting the picture that Terri's about to jump up and do the macarena, and no one has the guts to challenge it!There were actually 2 real doctors that have examined Terri (unlike the familys doctors who do "Diagnosis by video" and graduated from the Bill Frist College of Medicine!!", who showed the CT scans and flatline EEG. There's no way humanly possible that she's yakking it up with friends or talking about the NCAA games!!It's downright pathetic. And most cable news are only showing the uncontested side from the family, why? The most disingenuos has got to be Sean Hannity! Very bizarre. One thing i've learnd from this is to be more concerned about Supreme Court Justices!! I want to know who's being nominated and their views etc etc

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:54:00 AM EST
    I don't know if I should even bother talking to the trolls or not, but BurgerBoy, do you not believe in the concept of brain death - that your body can still be kept going but your brain has ceased to function? People have life support removed every day. This happened to a good friend when we were sixteen and his heart transplant failed. His good catholic parents waited a few days, said their goodbyes, and that removed life support. I can only imagine what this trial is stirring up for them. Is is just that you don't think that in this particular case the patient is brain dead? Why do you think you know better than all the doctors who have given her a complete examination (this does not count people who have seen her videotape or visited her for an hour. And this certainly does not count people who have an agenda like that christian activist doctor who clearly had his mind made up before his SHORT visit with Terry). I am guessing your response is that the doctors who say she is PVS has an agenda but I don't see any evidence of that and it would be some sort of weird conspiracy if all those doctors had a plot to kill her. Finally, what is with everyone's feelings that removing a feeding tube is more cruel than removing any other life support? Really, it happens every day, even with consceious patients. They are treated for the pain and discomfort so it is really not an awful way to go. We all just project how we feel when we miss a meal and imagine "that would feel bad to be like that for a week" but it is not the same, especially of course not if you are brain dead, but even if you are not.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:12:42 AM EST
    TL sez This is between Terri and himself. [Then why is he going on national tv?] So much dirty laundry on all sides, I really don't want to hear any of it.. he had not been on television except to defend himself against the lies of the other side --those opposing her will are the ones making amedia circus out of this If he didn't speak out fake pundits would be saying --why is he hiding

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:22:29 AM EST
    Crimson_Elephant: if you're in high school, I have a son about your age. And if his spelling, punctuation and composition were as abysmal as yours, I'd go ballistic. Debate, as an academic subject, is a waste of your and your teachers' time, since you haven't got a handle on basic written language skills. Moreover, you've clearly come to your conclusions without bothering with the reading. Transfer to a basic English class, and this time, do the homework.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:27:43 AM EST
    Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements "Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case." This seems to be the point everyone is missing. A court decided, based on not only Michael's testimony, but that of others, that Terri would not to live like this. "[Then why is he going on national tv?]" You can say this with a straight face after seeing the Schindlers on TV everyday for the past 3 weeks? Michael does one interview on Larry King to, obviously and finally, defend himself against the mountains of slander and whisper campaigns that have been coming at him for the past 7 years and, in your eyes, he loses face? Even the GAL report states that the falling out between the 2 parties occured around the time that the malpractice suit was awarded. That doesn't strike you as a falling out over money?

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:34:31 AM EST
    There but for the grace of god go I. It is easy to ridicule both parties but honestly it is hard to say what anyone of us would do in a similar situation and if you don't know the facts then don't judge the people. This has gone on way too long because of politics and the press, direct your concern at those who deserve it, not at the little people who really have nothing to do with the larger issues at stake.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:55:36 AM EST
    That's the point. It's a credibility call. Not when you read the testimony the judge spoke about. At least 5 others witnessed Terri indicating she did not want to be sustained "with machines."

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#29)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:16:38 AM EST
    Chrimson, You need a class in objectivity. Look it up. Otherwise you're just another young troll. Molly, I think Chrimson is just typing fast. He or she is obviously not pausing to think.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#30)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:17:32 AM EST
    I mean look at MY spelling!

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:24:04 AM EST
    I'm with Deanna and What A Load. Michael Schiavo only started giving interviews after being libeled and slandered by the Schindlers and was finally so fed up he felt he had to defend himself. Remember some of the Schindlers and their supporters are claiming that Michael Schiavo beat Terri and that's why she first fell into her vegetative state. Michael Schiavo has been called "evil", an "abuser", a "murderer" and those are the nicer phrases being tossed around. He has given, maybe, a handful of interviews and has turned down millions of dollars to walk away from Terri. I'm not saying everyone in this is 100% clean, but Michael Schiavo is, without question, the most trustworthy of all involved.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#32)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:26:18 AM EST
    I hope I have someone like Mike Schiavo in my corner if I ever end up like that.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:32:04 AM EST
    Now Jesse Jackson has inserted himself on the side of the Schindlers ...I wonder how much he s being paid he claims she is showing a will to live once again demonstrating no knowledge of the hospice process or the right to die with dignity Although his credibility has been dwindling for a long time --I think it is time for Democrats to pull the plug on Jesse Jackson ..what a 'ho

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 09:54:25 AM EST
    Paul in LA Immature egocentric liberals tend to hurl childish insults when they find others that a differing opinion, and are so egocentric they have duped themselves into believing that they still fit the definition of a liberal. But hey, thanks for showing how truly intolerant you are of opinions other than your own. I notice it to be a common trait among liberals.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#35)
    by Sailor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:12:51 AM EST
    You gotta wonder about the Schindlers: List of Schiavo Donors Will Be Sold by Direct-Marketing Firm So many on the christian right seem to confuse prophets with profits. With all the shouting outside that hospice I bet the other patients are sick of the din of inequity. Oh, and burgerboy, please rebury the stinking, maggot ridden corpse of irony when you have finshed your necrophelia.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:16:02 AM EST
    It doesn't matter if Michael Schiavo had a hidden agenda or not. He long ago lost control of the situation. A court decided that Terri wanted to die. Michael can't have the feeding tube replaced now any more than the Schlindlers can. By the the same token he is not noble for turning down offer of money. He can't accept money to " let her live", because the decision is no longer his. He has however, at least as far as I can see,never neglected her or behaved as if he was worried about her coming to and revealing any secrets. He got her excellent care and years of rehabiliation when there was a chance that she might recover. This is in the court records. He only started pressing to let her die after she had been unconcious for four or five years and her cortex was gone. The chance of her waking up and accusing him of anything had already past. The malpractice suit that he won against her doctors proves, at least indirectly, that there was no good medical evidence anyone had beaten or strangled her. Not even enough evidence to intimidate her husband - the usual perp-into settling. I don't know how he treated her when they were living together but I can't feel that he was cruel in asking the court to let her die. People are speaking as if death by starvation is somehow horrible and unheard of. It is a natural kind of death for people with serious underlying illness. And it is not one of the cruelest deaths by any means. Sleeping more and more, eating and drinking less and less finally stopping altogether,before the days of heroic intervension, it happened regularly in hospitals and back bedrooms and was called slipping away. What has happened to Terri for the past fiften years seems horrible, to me in contrast . Not so much life but a modern kind of mumification.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#37)
    by Sailor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:34:43 AM EST
    I wonder what all these liars who claimed to have heard her speak in the last week will say when the autopsy reveals the lack of a forebrain.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:57:40 AM EST
    Sailor states I wonder what all these liars who claimed to have heard her speak in the last week will say when the autopsy reveals the lack of a forebrain. Sailor, are you a medical expert, a psychic or a fool?

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:14:15 PM EST
    Sailor I would be glad to. But I must warn you, that your ludicrous sociopolitical egoism ideology will dig it right back up. By the way, wasn’t it you who said accuracy counts? I believe its “necrophilia” not “necrophelia” Garampani
    People are speaking as if death by starvation is somehow horrible and unheard of. It is a natural kind of death for people with serious underlying illness.
    Isn’t that like saying, People are speaking as if death by bleeding is somehow horrible and unheard of. It is a kind of natural death for people with serious gun shot wounds. Paul in LA
    Autopsy is a gruesome circumstance, but its a direct result of ghouls like you attacking his honor.
    Read the post again and again and again, this ghoul didn’t attack what you perceive as Michaels “honor”. If anything, I attacked your honor.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#40)
    by Sailor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:18:20 PM EST
    I am a medical expert in a few limited areas relating to my research, this isn't one of them but I can read court transcripts where the scans were discussed by medical experts. Reading, like speech, requires higher brain functions, which requires a cerebral cortex. Maybe you can get Randall Terry to pray for one for you.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#41)
    by Sailor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:37:10 PM EST
    burgerboy, thanks for the tip, you are correct, I misspelled a word.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 01:44:04 PM EST
    But hey, thanks for showing how truly intolerant you are of opinions other than your own. I notice it to be a common trait among liberals.
    It's not intolerance, Burgerboy, it's just good judgment to dismiss your rantings. Like this one:
    Will these Democrats next week be advocating death by dehydration for all of America’s retarded?
    First, it's not just Democrats who think Terri should be allowed to die. Second, your question is stupid, although I know you think it's ironic. Terri Schiavo is not "retarded" (although your reasoning is), her cerebral cortex was actually destroyed by her illness; this was clearly shown by CAT scan. When someone is no longer capable of any thinking at all, life is pretty much over. (I will refrain from applying that last sentence to certain people here.)

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 04:21:48 PM EST
    Well between selling 'Schindlers list' and jesse jackson's medical opinion they have offically jumped the shark. And BTW soldier, " a psychic or a fool?" I leave those jobs to you. Psychics and fools are rarely called for expert testimony by gov't agencies, congressional committees or the courts (plantiff and defense.)

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#45)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 04:23:51 PM EST
    I've looked at hundreds of head CT's with radiologists, and I have never seen a brain so atrophied as that of Terry Schiavo. Her father is a liar. I have no sympathy for him. He's self centered. He has no compassion for his daughter. He is a pawn of the religious right. to force your own flesh and blood to exist like that for 15 years is a crime. Not that it's relevant, but wouldn't you think that a woman with an eating disorder, which is mostly an image issue, would not want the whole world looking at her in that state?

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#46)
    by Sailor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 04:37:05 PM EST
    Che, I've never seen the scans, just read the testimony. Can you provide a link? I'm much more familiar with fMRI (specifically assigning 'false' color to innervated states) but any type of tomography is close.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:21:21 PM EST
    Posted by What A Load: "Now Jesse Jackson has inserted himself on the side of the Schindlers ...I wonder how much he s being paid" Another repugnant comment. Jesse Jackson has just served his country AGAIN by helping to expose the theft of the last election. If he is on the other side of the fence on this, it is his religion at issue, not something like money you turd. Posted by BurgerBoy: "Immature egocentric liberals tend to hurl childish insults when they find others that a differing opinion," Totally nonresponsive, as usual. It's FAITH HEALING. The Randall Terry/ Bill Frist position is that she can make a full recovery-- with enough PRAYER. We do NOT allow prayer to be the sole medical care for children, because the prayer doesn't work, and the kids DIE. You and Randall and Bill get on that, 'mkay? I don't have a link to the CT scan; but I have seen it. The lateral ventricles have expanded to nearly fill the cross-section. Highly unlikely that she has speech centers left; claims of her speaking to psychics notwithstanding. How can a person without brain centers speak? Since people who have brain damage to those centers cannot form the concepts, the grammar, or vocalize the words (variously), her supposedly ascended spirit wouldn't even be able to babble like a baby. If the soul arrives complete at the moment of fertilization, how come they have to wait two years for their brain centers to mature before they can speak sentences? They ought to already have all that grammar, even when they aren't visible by the human eye. Keep on praying, Burger. You're almost a cockroach.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:50:27 PM EST
    TL writes: "In October, 2003, I noted there were reports that he had a financial interest in whether his wife lived or died." Um, *every* married person has a financial interest in whether their spouse lives or dies. There's insurance, there's the inheritance, there's the end of the drain of ongoing medical expenses. Same with kids. Tom DeLay had a financial interest in the death of his father in 1988. What's special about Michael Schiavo in this respect? That said, he did hand control over to the courts, who determined Terri's will. The court is enacting Terri's preference, not Michael Schiavo's.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:51:31 PM EST
    Jesse Jackson's comments on the hospice process were lies and I don't care if he's the Pope on a stick -he has no business inserting himself into a private family matter. He was just as bad a Klayman and Randall Terry.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:40:12 PM EST
    "Almost 50 neurologists all say the same thing: Terri should be reevaluated, Terri should be reexamined, and there are grave doubts as to the accuracy of Terri’s diagnosis of PVS. All of these neurologists are board-certified" "Doctors for Michael Schiavo have said that an MRI and PET are not necessary for Terri because PVS is primarily a “clinical” diagnosis, that is, one arrived at on the basis of examination of the patient, rather than by relying on tests. And the neurologists I have spoken to agree on the clinical nature of the diagnosis, while insisting that advanced tests nonetheless are a necessary part of it" Neurologists Say: Recording of Terri Shows She's Not PVS "I never wanted Terri to die. I still don't. After more than seven years of desperately searching for a cure for Terri, the death of my own mother helped me realize that I was fooling myself. More important, I was hiding behind my hope, and selfishly ignoring Terri's wishes. I wanted my wife to be with me so much that I denied her true condition." Statement By Michael Schiavo

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:53:52 PM EST
    try facts

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:27:45 PM EST
    Michael Schiavo never asked for any of this. one side dragged it into the public arena and has done everything it can to keep it there, regardless of the cost to anyone. I am appalled that Talk Left or anyone else would trash him for fighting back against these people who have conducted an all out attack against him for years. I admire him. [Ed. TalkLeft did not trash Michael Schiavo.]

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:42:38 PM EST
    Sailor states Reading, like speech, requires higher brain functions, which requires a cerebral cortex. Maybe you can get Randall Terry to pray for one for you. Wrong again, Sailor. I'm an atheist. No amount of prayer will help me. But, I commend you on the quick diagnosis, based on an eleven word quip. You must be a mentor for Bill Frist! Keep in mind that medicine is as much art, as science. One of my daughters was pregnant and the doctors recommended that they induce labor, because the baby was nearing 10 pounds. Except, when the baby was born, she only weighed 7 pounds, 2 ounces. We can all cite stories where the doctors were wrong. Some of us even have stories about "vegetables" that wake up and begin talking. In Terri's case, I think the diagnosis is correct. What that means is that "Terri" died sometime in the last few years. But then, the argument that Terri would not want to live like this, goes out the window. So where is the harm in letting her body live? The only harm I can see, is to Michael’s feeling. If, on the other hand, the diagnosis is incorrect, (and that still doesn't mean that Terri will recover) we certainly shouldn't terminate her. At least, not until there is a proper diagnosis. Yet, I feel, most people who want her terminated, believe that some consciousness still survives and want her terminated because they feel this consciousness is “trapped” and in pain. They are being compassionate, but they are not being logical. They simply can not imagine a human body that has no consciousness whatever. I admit, when I think of Terri as a person, I can't imagine it. But what I am really doing, is inserting myself into the equation. Personally, I don't believe either side is evil or necessarily, wrong. The conflict arises from different and conflicting goals. And, from the bystanders irritating habit of calling people on the opposite side "liars."

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:48:01 PM EST
    "Chrimson, You need a class in objectivity. Look it up. Otherwise you're just another young troll." Crimson, go right ahead and post your thoughts here. Don't be intimidated by "old trolls". Che, look it up, yourself.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:53:15 PM EST
    QUESTION: if it was terry's choice to die, why didn't michael pull the tubes years ago??? why did he say last year that he was uncertain of her wishes? if she is braindead, and cannot feel nor preceuve anything around her, why does she need morphine, or music or even light in her room? this man and his lawyers contradict themselves over and over again (seems to be the left way...cough cough...kerry). if you can give a sensible answer to those, i applaud you.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:24:58 PM EST
    He tried to pull the tubes as you say years ago but the people opposing her will fought him The morphine as has been explained time and time again by real doctors is for the family not the patient .Mrs. SChiavo would be fne without it but it eases some of the breathing issues and makes the family feel more comfortable. I suggest you educate yourself on hospice practice before you demonstrate more of your ignorance Mr.Schiavo became a registered nurse to care for his wife when the accident first happened. He took her to California to try experimental processes and when everything had failed and every doctor said there would be no recovery then he said she would not want to live this way. You are either a stupid crimson elephant or you are deliberately ignoring the facts of the case try facts

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:27:09 PM EST
    i wanna thank Doctor Ace for the support. other than a few on this thread, like you and burger boy, i am honestly afraid of what this nation may become. i admit, that grammar was not my focus in the last few posts, online it rarely is at all. yet when the best attack one can make is on my grammar, spelling and punctuation, it leads me to wonder if thte left isde really cares about the issues at hand or about deviding the nation... right and left, red and blue, etc. i mean, who am i or you to criticize jesse jackson for taking a stance on this. Posted by What A Load at March 29, 2005 06:51 PM Jesse Jackson's comments on the hospice process were lies and I don't care if he's the Pope on a stick -he has no business inserting himself into a private family matter. He was just as bad a Klayman and Randall Terry. others have mentioned that he hass been paid to have this view. regardless of his motives, who are any of us to discredit that or try to take it away. FREE SPEECH!!! if it is not jesse's place to have an opinion, why are we all allowed to? because he has influence over the polls? is that it? for the record, i am not a riligeous fanatic who is supporting the right to life, i am merely questionning the legitimacy of michael's claims. if everything was normal, it wouldn't be in the news. back to the jesse jackson thing. he may really believe in this cause... i call my self a republican, true, have mostly conservative beliefs... capitalism, laizzis faire (probably another spelling misteak), strict adherence to the constitution, death penalty etc... but that doesn't mean i will put my name on every right handed agenda... i have gay friends who9m i'd support in marraige, i am pro-choice but mostly i am just so afraid of the communism i see trying to evolve here in the states. i know it sounds extream, but liberals are trying to regulate the internet from conservative views being posted abroad, socializing healthcare is an ioossue on both sides. the first amendment slips farther away each day and i am afraid. next: Will these Democrats next week be advocating death by dehydration for all of America’s retarded? First, it's not just Democrats who think Terri should be allowed to die. Second, your question is stupid, although I know you think it's ironic. Terri Schiavo is not "retarded i believe it was an analogy, not calling terry retarded, but questioning what could be next. who is the next victim to be targeted? my last comment for the night goes out in response to the following... The Schindlers and their supporters are the the source of the bad information and have used the tabloid media such as Fox to try to buikd sympathy for their position. all you do is try to discredit others... FOX is not a tabloid. it's not "weekly world news" or "national enquire" fox is the only program that shows a conservative stane on issues, let us have at least 1 source, you have CNN ABC NBC etc, what more do you want??? i am sticking with fox because they show both sides, yes they do lean right, but only to ballance out the rest of the media. actually, the best news is in an accent. BBC is the most non-partisan news when it comes to US issues, they can make fun of bush and support his quotes in the same newscast, and i think that is waht we need more of.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:30:02 PM EST
    i fear thte democratic party not for what it is... but for what it is becoming.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:31:29 PM EST
    Fox News Megaphone for Fraud they never met a fact the checked of course you would like them ..it's opinion and bad punditry parading as news

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:36:02 PM EST
    all news is opinion... Napolean Bonaparte` said that history was merely fact agreed upon... eveyoine has a different interpretation of any given event. why is it that anything or anyone that has an opinion other than your own is wrong or stupid? tell me that is just!

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:41:26 PM EST
    I prefer Daniel Patrick Moynihan News and Views ... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts -- [quoted on FactCheck.Org] There are facts in this case you don't like them so you want a do over --

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#61)
    by glanton on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:47:51 PM EST
    Load: But Fox is only the most corrosive, tip of the tabloid iceberg, if you will. Find me a major newspaper or network that provides substantive coverage of issues and events? All those outlets crimson amusingly defines as liberal are very nearly as sensationalist and irresponsible as Fox. Sigh. We, the amused to death, the titillated public, the obsessors over what others are doing in their bedrooms: we, willing indefinitely to gaze upon home movies of Terri Shiavo in her hospice and convert that situation into a heated debate to the point that our Luddite President has to stop prating about "ter'ists" for a moment--we are sooooo much easier to control than we ought to be.....

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 08:50:24 PM EST
    Glanton well said

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#63)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 09:15:38 PM EST
    Crimson, "The issue is whether we want to live in a free society or wheher we want to live under what amounts to a form of self-imposed totalitarianism, with the bewildered herd marginalized, directed elsewhere, terrified, screaming patriotic slogans, fearing for their lives, and admiring with awe the leader who saved then from destruction, while the educated masses goose-step on command and repeat the slogans they're supposed to repeat and the society deteriorates at home. We end up serving as a mercenary enforcer state, hoping that others are going to pay us to smash up the world." N. Chomsky 1991 Think about it. The Left is not your enemy.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 09:47:11 PM EST
    "Posted by What A Load: "Jesse Jackson's comments on the hospice process were lies and I don't care if he's the Pope on a stick" I see. So now it is his comments you don't like. You just attacked him without any evidence -- which is ad hominem. If it is his comments, why don't you comment on them and leave your aspersions out of it? " -he has no business inserting himself into a private family matter." As I understand it, he was ASKED to by the parents. Jesse Jackson is a reverend. His religiousity is well attested, and in many cases I do not agree with his views. But to attack him as if he was your personal assclown just blows back on you, as if your handle wasn't enough. What he isn't is a doctor like Frist, who should be delicenced for his malpractice, diagnosing by videotape glances. THAT'S disgusting. Bringing Randall Terry into it, or Tom DeLay, THAT'S disgusting. There is no comparison to inviting a reverend to stand with the parents while they FINALLY endure their loss. If you ask me, they should have a psychiatrist as well as a priest.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 10:03:02 PM EST
    CNN says there's a new appeal. And on the issue of the value of opinions - education in the US sucks.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:01:15 AM EST
    People die when their life force is gone -- if they are allowed to do so. To me, the tragedy of the Schiavo case is that those who love her have been so split in the ways to care for her in her final days (or hours or years). Her husband appears to have done everything to ask the courts to confirm what should be done with his unconscious wife -- and the courts have agreed that she did not want to be kept alive. Her parents wish for the impossible -- for her to continue to live forever. It is not correct that Terri is 'starved and without water' as she dies. That IS how people die! It is not possible to die unless your body stops receiving nutrients -- and what her parents wish for is EXTRAORDINARY INTERVENTION in the natural process of dying. Poor Terri Schiavo -- she has no brain left, only a pool of liquid at the center and automatic function. Poor parents. Poor husband. And shame on all those who use this tragedy to further divide us all.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:34:37 AM EST
    Glanton, what do you mean, "we"? Speak for yourself. Glanton and Load, your view of Fox or any other media outlet is just what you said, your opinion. Che, Chomsky is a member of that "bewildered herd". You've got the blind leading the blind. The left is not your enemy? Ever see the pics of the hundreds of skulls of Cambodians massacred by the Khmer Rouge? One can imagine they seem to be crying out for justice. No, Che. One hundred million innocent people murdered to date under the jackboot of the middle-class hating left? The left is every decent person's enemy, an entity to be apprehended as the evil force it is

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#68)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:21:40 AM EST
    props to the doctor!

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#69)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:31:12 AM EST
    Ace, "The left is every decent person's enemy", huh? Contratulations, you've officially elimanted me from the list of fools who will ever respond to one of your extremist, generalized, absured posts. Go try to find any post I've ever written that SO offensively labels entire population as less than. I am beyond disappointed in you, doc. Have a nice life.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#70)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 03:28:44 PM EST
    Yeah Ass I just want to kill everybody. Get back in line.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 03:56:18 PM EST
    Ace - Dont repeat yourself so much, we get it. The left is brain-washed. Oh, and DOGMATIC( good word,must use often). Also they value feelings over reason and logic. And of course theyre full of hate. Thanks for proving that the unencumbered, enlightened mind can repeat the same thing over and over without being dogmatic-thats quite a trick.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 03:57:21 PM EST
    That would be DOCTOR Ass, Che.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#73)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:16:59 PM EST
    CLOSE MINDED COMMUNISTS!!! i cannot fathom that some people actually share all of these far left views, so much so that they refuse to hear others. dogmatic, nice word, but do you really need to criticize the doc. for being redundant??? scroll up and take a look at the "load" of repitition throughout the whole thread by some of the lefties! i'm glad that you only take up 49%, and not the majority and i hope that one day we can come together as americans when the democratic party fizzles out. there is only a name, the beliefs by roosevelt, and JFK and other decent democrats are gone, we have 4 major parties now.... Green, Independant, Republican, and Anti-Republican (socialist/boarderline communist).

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#74)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:38:22 PM EST
    Omg! crimson just went into a neoconic seizure, go get the meds.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#75)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 07:40:02 PM EST
    thank you guys! ... for totally proving my point once again! the worlds most fatal words, "...and i decided to become a politician" ~Adolph Hitler

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#76)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 08:31:55 AM EST
    How can anyone describe Michael Schiavo as being 'moral' (as i read in earlier comments here)??? Moral? Please .. let us all be reminded that as he repeatedly reminds the world, he is MARRIED to Terry... yet he managed to father two children WHILE STILL MARRIED to Terry. Isn't that considered ADULTERY? How does he come off being the patron saint, who only wanted the best for his wife? Please...He wanted to get rid of her. He is trash and he will pay for all of his actions in due time. One can only hope that he lives long enough to suffer through his children, like the Schindlers suffered through Terry. NOT that i want anything to happen to his children, but life has a way of paying you back for your wrong-doings. And yes, it is my honest opinion (and we're all entitled to our opinions) that he has done her parents wrong.

    Re: Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy (none / 0) (#77)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 12:03:12 AM EST
    I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat. I'm not liberal or conservative. I don't vote. I do however question everything. I want to know what is happening to us. We ended a woman's "suffering" by starving her to death? That seems counter intuitive. It makes no sense. Here's why. If I contend that the process of starvation is cruel and unusual in terms of the suffering and misery bestowed on Terri leading to her death, the counter argument will contend that a woman in a PVS will not experience or feel the pain of dying. If I contend that the compassionate action is to continue to feed and hydrate Terri Shiavo so long as she is alive, the counter argument would state that the compassionate act would be to allow her to die to end her years of suffering in a PVS Tell me, then, how can Terri Shiavo simultaneously suffer while being alive in a PVS (To feel something painful, injurious, or unpleasant) But Not suffer while dying from starvation and in a PVS If she lacks the capacity to experience suffering in the process of dying from starvation then she lacks the capacity to experience suffering in the process of living. If this is true then nothing is lost by keeping her alive. If the experts were wrong, and she did have some capacity, then everything that was Terri Shiavo was lost by starving her to death. We don't allow new born infants to die because they can't feed themselves. And there is no argument to say that a new born has any more mental capacity then Terri Shiavo did. We do not starve mentally disabled children that are destined to live out their lives in wheelchairs and hospital beds simply because they lack the mental capacity to feed themelves or communicate. Who are we to say that she is better off dead? To say that she lived for 14 years, not allowed to die with "dignity". She was only better off dead because she lived in a world that no longer valued her worth because of what she could no longer give to it. PVS didn't take her dignity. We did by no longer valuing the gifts that remained with her when she lost so many of the gifts we all take for granted. The only attribute that seperates human beings from animals is the ability to form complex social systems based on civility and intellectual law, which seeks to elimate the forces of natural law. A system which allows for the opinions and voices of the minority to be heard without being overwhelmed by the majority. A system where the strong protect the weak, and all have equal protection under the law. Our moral growth has not been able to catch up to our scientific and technological advancement for some time now. This is just another case where we have lacked the ethical insight and moral obligation to yet another human being with whom we are yet again unwilling to make a place for in "our" world. Animals. We are all turning back into a bunch of f-ing animals.

    Michael Schiavo Announces Plans for Autopsy | 77 comments (77 topical)