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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu May 12, 2005 at 09:18:38 AM EST
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I'll be off-line much of the day, so here's a space where you can pick the topics of discussion.

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    Thursday Open Thread | 38 comments (38 topical)
    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Frist Bush. 400 dead civilians in 2 weeks. Nice work monkey boy.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Gas prices are at an all time high. Heating costs are at an all time high. Taxes and fees are on the increase. The Capitol and the White House are evacuated in a panic. The poor souls have to run around like chickens with their heads cut off; pell mell into the streets of Washington without a clue. They can't run from the guilt anymore. What has been done can't be undone. Congress and those in the executive branch should wise up, straighten up and fly right. It isn't going to happen, though. The have lost all sense of propiety. The fools; the chickens have come home to roost.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Ted Rall took some heat from the Chickenhawk War Supporters for his Pat Tillman comments before, but I expect them to be a lot more quiet this time.
    So desperate were the military brass to carry off their propaganda coup that they lied to Tillman's brother, a fellow soldier who arrived on the scene shortly after the incident, about how he died. Writing in an army report, Brigadier General Gary Jones admits that the official cover-up even included "the destruction of evidence": the army burned Tillman's Ranger uniform and body armor to hide the fact that he had died in a hail of American bullets, fired by troops who had "lost situational awareness to the point they had no idea where they were." "We didn't want the world finding out what actually happened," one soldier told Jones. A perfect summary of the war on terrorism.
    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Poor Walmart. They "only" profited 2.5 billion or so last quarter, failing to meet expectations. My heart bleeds.... No room for higher wages and decent benefits in that 2.5 billion? I despise that company.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Did anyone find it strange that Bush was mountain biking in the middle of a work day, in the middle of the week, in the middle of the War on Terror?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    This morning, the Treasury Department delivered a white paper, which states categorically who is responsible for the rising gas prices in America. It turns out poor folk are the reason it costs you $60 to fill up the tank of your Navigator. Here's the official administration explanation. Poor folk shop at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is the largest corporation in America — in fact, in the world. Its revenues make up 2 percent of America's GDP (whatever that is). Wal-Mart has 6,000 suppliers. Of those suppliers, 5,000 or 80% can be found in one country. CHINA! Recently, China has become the world's second largest consumer of energy and third largest importer of oil. It is the competition for oil that's driving up the prices on our God-given right to cheap gas. Why would a backward Third World communist country need all that energy for? Because it's busy making stuff for Wal-Mart. So, if poor folk would start shopping at Nordstrom and Saks, energy prices would finally turn around and start dropping. But you can bet, those Democrat-voting, poor folks are too darn selfish to think about what's best for America.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    The leaked Downing St. memo says that the Bush Administration fixed the facts around its Iraq policy. If that's not a crime, I don't know what is.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Nancy Jo,
    So, if poor folk would start shopping at Nordstrom and Saks, energy prices would finally turn around and start dropping.
    Making all of Wal-Mart's stuff in America, or buying American-made products from other stores, wouldn't decrease demand/competition. We'd just be competing for the oil with American companies instead of with China. That might be an improvement, but probably not an improvement in oil prices.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Nancy Jo - Do you think that the fact that we have almost shut down oil exploration in the US and haven't built a new refinery in 20 years might have something to do with this? Tell us, Nancy Jo. Did you support drilling in Anwar? Deep drilling in the Gulf? The trans Alaska/Canada pipeline? Nucelar power? Coal burning insteap of NG? Somehow, I don't think you did. Problem, meet problem. AKA Nancy Jo. (If you did, I apologize in advance.)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    First the "My Pet Goat" debacle, now the motherf#*ker's biking... Has anyone noticed that this guy is never at work? Especially when something's goin' down?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Blagh - You got a job description for President? You know. Start time, etc. And would you like to compare resumes? I mean with stupid old George. Two term Governor. Two term President. Jet fighter pilot. MBA holder, etc., etc.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Well, Blaghdaddy has no job description, except for the vague notion that he should be where he works some of the time, don't you think? Funny, the conservatives trashed Clinton for his vacations...look at these following stats from '03...- 28 Number of vacation days Bush took in August this year, the second longest vacation of any president in U.S. history. (Previous Record holder: Richard M. Nixon.) - 13 Number of vacation days the average American receives each year. LOVES TO TRAVEL (BUT NOT WITHOUT A PURPOSE) - 65 Approximate number of fund raisers attended in 2002. - O Number of trips taken to Afghanistan before waging war against that country. - O Number of trips to Iraq before waging war against that country. O Number of funerals or memorials Bush has attended for soldiers killed in Iraq. Yeah, PPJ, he's hard at work...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Is the war over?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Blagh - I ran a group of sales people one time when I was traveling myself about 70% of the time. I did it by email, one on one phone calls, conference calls, video conferences, and faxes. No problem at all, and I had exactly one Admin staff person. Think maybe the President can do the same type of thing? Especially when he has the world's greatest support staff and unlimited communication and travel facilities. So instead of trying to justify your absolute lack of knowledge of modern management techniques by complaining about conservatives, of which I am not one, you should try and criticize Bush for any number of things that someone might feel has some merit.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Hey PPJ, Blaghdaddy's off to see the "Daily Show," but he'll catch you later...take it easy guys, have a good night... And PPJ, if you think Bush is doing a good job and is working hard, Blaghdaddy can't argue with you...standards are subjective... Later guys!!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    Here's a fun followup to the Minuteman Project: The Border Patrol in Arizona has been ordered to limit arrests to prevent making it look like the Project was successful. Those misguided Minutemen should have left it to the "professionals"! (The reporter doesn't name names, standard skepticism applies)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Speaking of illegals.. No word from TL about an 'illegal' killing a cop & wounding another at a party in Denver? His car was found in LA yesterday (big surprise there) and he is probably back in Mexico by now. Roy... That minuteman project was a huge success if for no other reason it got this country's attention focused on a very real problem!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    You people and your anecdotes...all Blaghdaddy ever hears from the right is anecdotes to pull at the heartstrings or yank the outrage lever...how about sticking to the spirit of something instead of cherry-picking specific instances to suit your argument. "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics..." So what if an illegal alien killed a citizen? That justifies rounding up everyone without a visa? How about rounding up all the 25-50 aged "average white guys?" That should cut drunk-driving, spousal battery and serial rape and murder in half, shouldn't it? Let's talk about the Americans illegally killing people all over the world even as you all blather... FoxSpews, WorldNetGaily, Spew-Dobbs, Shrill O'Reilly- what is it with all of the conservatives that they all suddenly shifted from the "culture of life" and "Social Security's imploding" to "The brown ones are coming!!" These same idiots would starve if every illegal Mexican picked up and left...that's not what they want...it's another political drum they've picked up...as if they care...who else is gonna cut their estate lawns, water their poodles and mix mojitoes for them? You wanna scream about aliens, scream about the ones who flew planes into buildings, not El Dorados into El Paso...you'll be safer...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Actually, has anybody seen statistics on how often illegal aliens commit other crimes? Compared to natives and legal aliens? If, once they get here, they're 50% as likely to murder or rob anybody, a lot of the MMP-style rhetoric needs to be rewritten. Alternately, they might overwhelmingly be retirement fund raiders and dentists who grope anethetized patients.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Don't forget daycare diddlers, extremist supremacist groups, abortion clinic bombers, fake-kidnapping victims...yeah, there's a real "immigrant" crime wave goin' on... The only good argument for rounding up ALL immigrants is, "Who's the governor of California?" Does Conan enjoy diplomatic immunity?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    The only good argument for rounding up ALL immigrants is, "Who's the governor of California?"
    Who suggested rounding up ALL immigrants?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy did...as long as it gets rid of him... Hey, if you're going to criminalize and demonize immigrants based on the actions of a very few (and Blaghdaddy's no immigrant so he's advocating for them) Blaghdaddy will go along...as long as he gets to kick out his own selected bunch... Hey, what's good for the goose...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Blagh - The point is not that all illegal aliens are murderers, etc. But all illegal aliens are ILLEGALLY here. If they weren't here, no action would occur.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    And which ones are the conservatives howling about? The most visible and easily identifiable and easily villified group, the Mexicans...big freakin' surprise. The borders are still porous, but you're worried more about José than Abdul...funny you think Arabs are dangerous enough to torture when they're caught, but no one's really looking them down in Arizona, are they? Nope, they're lookin' for cheap votes that don't have to be actually worked for...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy did...as long as it gets rid of him...
    My bad, I misread you. Outside the scope of illegal long-term aliens, here's another anecdote suggesting that a more secure border might be a good thing. At least we can be reasonably sure that illegal aliens do not become Border Patrol agents who take bribes to overlook smuggling.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Balghdaddy... So what if an illegal alien killed a citizen? So what? I guess as long as it isn't anybody in your family all is cool? That justifies rounding up everyone without a visa? No... the war on terror and the fact that the border with Mexico is a sieve justifies rounding everyone up without a visa. how about sticking to the spirit of something instead of cherry-picking specific instances to suit your argument. Well the spirit is: immigrants are welcome as long as they go through the "legal" process... like all our ancestors did! This specific instance just points out the overall problem. You people and your anecdotes - .. LOL...you mean like this one: - ...How about rounding up all the 25-50 aged "average white guys?" That should cut drunk-driving, spousal battery and serial rape and murder in half, shouldn't it? Yes ...if being 25 - 50 & white was illegal...you might have a point!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Ask PPJ and ED and the crew about that one... They'll say...hell, let's ask them what they have to say...Blahgdaddy bets you won't see them on this thread now...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Well the spirit is: immigrants are welcome as long as they go through the "legal" process... like all our ancestors did!
    Well, that's going to be the funniest thing I read today. Many of my white ancestors became "American" by killing my Native American ancestors! Or they did it by working within the legal system set up by my aforementioned ancestors who killed my other ancestors.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Well said, Roy...Blaghdaddy wanted to bring it up but didn't want to be accused of "white-bashing.." His mother's white... :-) His father's also an immigrant, which means he knows that all immigrants aren't slavering invaders from the outer walls... And it's funny that only the laws conservatives feel are "crucial issues" at the time are the ones they want to enforce...the others go out the window...same with immigration... "Ahnold for president! Whatay mean, he can't? 'Cause he's an immigrant? Well, then, we should amend the Constitution..." So conservatives want to enforce certain laws regarding immigration and simultaneously amend the Constitution in favor of one... Yeah, really consistent...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy, You have too narrow a definition of "consistent" and too homogenous a definition of "conservative". Wanting to increase enforcement of restrictions against illegal immigrants, while expanding priviledges for legal immigrants, is consistent with many conservatives' ideas of how immigration should work. Especially in Ahnold's case, as he is so Americanized that only his accent is alien. Similarly, some liberals would like to step up enforcement of tax laws against rich people while expanding the tax deductions for poor people. Perfectly consistent with how they think taxation should work. And don't forget that sometimes conservatives disagree with each other.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Hey Roy, you'd better tell your President that, 'cause many people are accusing him of trying to give the Hispanic farm away to shore up his base...and simultaneously inflame it...and that's the problem...you get minorities and conservatives in the same party and soon or later it will go "Kaboom!!" Blaghdaddy would say that Bill O'Reilly, Joseph Farah and Lou Dobbs slamming Bush daily now qualifies as a least a respectable implosion... Seriously Roy, Blahgdaddy would have no problem with conservatives except for one point- if they'd had their way, Blaghdaddy might be hoein' a row in a Trinidad cane field right now- or weilding the whip, since he comes from both sides of the fence... Conservatives stand for preserving the status quo. Too often, it means someone else's rights are being stepped on. If cons would let everyone live the way THEY want to live, we'd all just get along...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Roy... Many of my white ancestors became "American" by killing my Native American ancestors! Well...go ahead & laugh... sorry but mine came here a little later and went through Ellis Island "legally"!! Blaghdaddy,.... And it's funny that only the laws conservatives feel are "crucial issues" at the time are the ones they want to enforce... Well... not sure where you are getting that...but I'd say you are wrong. In fact it's the Dems that selectivly want laws inforced... Illegal immigration is a perfect example... Screw the laws, let em all in...right? Screw marraige laws ...let's let same sex's marry.. I want to abort this unwanted child...but, what do you mean you want to carry out the death sentence of that serial killer... That's murder! ... Etc...etc...on & on.... LOL...It's you my friends that have continually pushed a 'double standard' ....look in the mirror buddy. Wanting to increase enforcement of restrictions against illegal immigrants, while expanding priviledges for legal immigrants, is consistent with many conservatives' Yeah...Duh....kinda common sense isn't it? Or has that (common sense) notion missed you?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Well...go ahead & laugh... sorry but mine came here a little later and went through Ellis Island "legally"!!
    I don't want to read too much into what may have been an off-hand remark, but are you suggesting that because your ancestors complied with the laws set up by people who conquered the land, you are better qualified to judge people who sneak in and work cheap without conquering anything? (To clarify, lest I pull a Churchill, I should point out that I'm so white I get a sunburn from a good TV)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    You're too funny, BB...like Jebediah didn't write a law to circumvent Florida law over Schiavo...'member, when the Florida court booted it further than a football? 'member when Jebediah's bro' got Congress to write yet another law to circumvent the Florida courts? How far did that get? Republicans rewrote Senate ethics rules because Delay kept getting his hand slapped, and guess what, they had to back-track on that too... Now the Republicans want to change Senate rules to ensure they get their way? And you want to say that liberals are two-faced? Now that's funny....

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Blagh - From time to time you spout so much your responsea are irrational. Now. What can I tell you about my position re illegal immigration? 1. The Demos want the votes and the Repubs are afraid of pissing off the Hispanic voters. Both sides use cheap labor whenever possible. 2. I would put business people who employ illegals in jail for 5 years first offense. 3. Illegals hurt America's underclass by willingly working for less. Your salad might do up 15%, but there is a price at which US citizens would pick lettuce and apples and peaches... 4. If I was a terrorist and wanted to come in, I would use the southern border. There now. Any questions?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    Actually, PPJ, Blahg's on your side on this issue. People wait for years to immigrate legally and shouldn't be pushed aside by someone who's there illegally...there's no two ways about it on this to Blagh... Why the hell shoud people apply to come live with family and friends when others are sneaking in the back? It's outrageous, that's for damned sure. The problem Blaghdaddy has with this particular crowd is that he smells political opportunism. They are happy to hire illegals with a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, but the truth of it is that Bush is preparing to extend legal rights to illegals when they haven't earned them. That's outrageous. Don't demonize the illegals for being in America illegally. PPJ, if you suddenly found yourself a foreigner, wouldn't you do ANYTHING to get in? You would...so who's fault is it that they're here? The government's...and Republicans have been in the White House for 17 of the past 25 years. And their President, far from strengthening immigration law, is preparing to hand them the bank.... So Blagh's question is- why are you mad at Democrats? They've only been in power 8 of the last 25 years and you want to blame them for everything...get real, PPJ...the immigration problem is the government's problem, not the opposition party's...get to work....

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:03 PM EST
    No doubt that President Bush is using political opportunism at it's reekeist when dealing with illigal immigration. However, the blame for the problem of illegal immigration is more squarley on the shoulders of liberals than on conservatives. You don't see red states or red cities passing ordinances prohibiting LEOs from passing on information to INS (or whatever it's called these days) that they have arrested an illegal. That's a blue state and blue city phenomian. But that goes to the basic difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives (in general)respect the law and when they disagree with the law they set abuot to change it (IE Amend the Constitution.) Liberals have a far higher percentage of their ideology who don't respect the law (when compared to conservatives) and when they disagree go about passing a parallel law system at lower levels declaring their laws to preempt federal law. Reminds me of what the south did just prior to the civil war, it smacks of nullification. That's not to say that conservatives don't share some of the balme. Bush should have cut off all federal funding for California law enforcement when the governor didn't countermand the blue cities ordinances, an act he won't do for political opportunism as Blahg suggests. Oh, and for the record I don't care how many legal aliens we let in as long as 1) They aren't being paid at lower levels than citizens who are here already and 2) An influx of legal aliens don't make it more difficult for citizens to get jobs. -BigTex

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:03 PM EST
    Blagh - I am not angry at anyone, much less Demos, or Repubs. Life is too short. I recognize that key politicans on both sides play the game. With world population kicking up to around 6.5 billion, and probably 3.5 billion eager to move to a better place, we need to do something to stop illegal and to drastically slow legal immigration. We need a breather to assimilate the new comers, figure out how many we can support without drastically changing the environment, and to insure that the uniquely American culture doesn't become uniquely Hispanic. NOTE: Before the howls start, I note that I find no fault with the Hispanic culture, just that it should be reserved for Hispanic countries, not the US. Letting someone into the country that has job skills that will let the individual immediately find employment in an area that the country's base population is fine. Letting someone into the country that has no skills and will only further depress the current underclass's job market and pay scale is, in my opinion, criminal. Tex - Well said.

    Thursday Open Thread | 38 comments (38 topical)