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Question About Cheney and Wilson

Update: Thanks to Mark Hatch-Miller of Majority Report at Air America Radio for pointing this out:

This is Wilson on Democracy Now! from September 2003:

“Well, first of all the Vice President is right, we've never met. He was Secretary of Defense when I was in charge of our agency in Baghdad and as one of the principals of the National Security Council, he was certainly in National Security Council meetings chaired by President Bush when discussions were being held on reports that I was submitting on a regular basis from Baghdad. While we've never met he certainly knows who I am and should know unless his memory is flawed and faulty.”

Joseph Wilson will be on their show tonight.

Update: Thanks to Bob Harris for providing this shorter version:

Shorter version: during the first Gulf War, Dick Cheney was Secretary of Defense. And America's man in Baghdad passing along White House demands to Saddam was... Joe Wilson. Dick Cheney doesn't know who this guy is?

**************
In September, 2003, on Meet the Press, Dick Cheney that said he did not know Joseph Wilson and had never met him.

MR. RUSSERT: Now, Ambassador Joe Wilson, a year before that, was sent over by the CIA because you raised the question about uranium from Africa. He says he came back from Niger and said that, in fact, he could not find any documentation that, in fact, Niger had sent uranium to Iraq or engaged in that activity and reported it back to the proper channels. Were you briefed on his findings in February, March of 2002?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I don’t know Joe Wilson. I’ve never met Joe Wilson. A question had arisen. I’d heard a report that the Iraqis had been trying to acquire uranium in Africa, Niger in particular. I get a daily brief on my own each day before I meet with the president to go through the intel. And I ask lots of question. One of the questions I asked at that particular time about this, I said, “What do we know about this?” They take the question. He came back within a day or two and said, “This is all we know. There’s a lot we don’t know,” end of statement. And Joe Wilson—I don’t who sent Joe Wilson. He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back.

...like I say, I don’t know Mr. Wilson. I probably shouldn’t judge him. I have no idea who hired him and it never came...

Dick Cheney was Defense Secretary under former President Bush during Gulf War I. Joseph Wilson was charge d'affaires in Baghdad.

August 8, 1990, Associated Press (available on lexis.com)

President George Bush yesterday dispatched hundreds of U.S. warplanes and thousands of American soldiers to Saudi Arabia to counter what the White House called an "imminent threat" posed by Iraqi troops and tanks that conquered neighboring Kuwait six days ago. In what officials described as the largest single deployment of U.S. military air power since the Vietnam War, Bush dramatically increased the American presence in the tension-wracked Persian Gulf region, home of half the world's oil reserves.

Saudi Arabia has never before allowed U.S. ground forces to be stationed on its soil. But officials said Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney, who was sent to the Middle East by Bush on Sunday, convinced Saudi leaders, with what sources said was a dramatic array of satellite photos and intelligence data, that the tens of thousands of Iraqi troops had massed near their border with Kuwait and were taking up positions for a possible invasion....Cheney also was conferring last night with officials in Morocco seeking to win a commitment of troops from that country for the international effort to thwart Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's aggression in the region that one U.S. analyst called "a tinder box."

....Hussein remained defiant, declaring in a nationwide speech he would never back down. "We would rather die than be humiliated," he said, "and we will pluck out the eyes of those who attack the Arab nation."

In Washington, presidential spokesman Marlin Fitzwater reported that in a tense, two-hour session Monday between Hussein and the highest-ranking American official in Iraq, Charge d'Affaires Joseph Wilson, the Iraqi president "indicated he had no intention of leaving Kuwait and had every indication of staying and claiming it as his own."

State Department spokeswoman Margaret Tutwiler said that 28 Americans picked up Monday by Iraqi troops in Kuwait have turned up in a Baghdad hotel but "are not being allowed to leave . . . at this point." American officials, speaking on condition they would not be identified, said the United States is discussing with Iraq a plan to allow some of the estimated 500 Americans in that country to leave by road through Jordan within a day or two. A senior Iraqi official made similar comments.

The deployment of U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia is described by some sources as a "trip-wire" for Hussein if he decides to invade Saudi Arabia, as part of the ongoing tightening of the noose to get Iraq to pull out of Kuwait and as psychological warfare aimed at achieving the same goal. None of the defense sources said this was preparation for a joint U.S-Arab military invasion of Iraq.

August 19, 1990, Associated Press

....Iraqi President Saddam Hussein offered on Sunday to free all foreigners in Iraq and Kuwait if the United States promises to withdraw its forces from Saudi Arabia and guarantees that an international economic embargo will be lifted....CBS News reported from Baghdad on Sunday that 35 Americans, including four women and three children, have taken refuge at U.S. diplomatic "quarters" in the Iraqi capital. It did not specify what it meant by quarters.

The report quoted the officer in charge of the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Joseph Wilson, as saying he and his staff were doing everything possible to prevent Americans from being rounded up by Iraqi authorities.

.....Defense Secretary Dick Cheney said on Sunday that Iraq has massed 200,000 troops and more than 1,000 tanks on the Saudi border. "Should Saddam Hussein be foolish enough to launch an attack on Saudi Arabia, we would be able to do a very effective job of making him pay a bit of a price for that," said Cheney, who visited U.S. soldiers in Saudi Arabia and seamen on the USS Eisenhower in the Red Sea. "Obviously, I'll be more comfortable once we've got more forces in the country."

By this time, analysts were openly calling the Americans detained in Iraq and Kuwait "hostages."

Defense Secretary Cheney and Joseph Wilson were working two sides of the same crisis. How could Cheney, micro-manager that he is, not only not have met Wilson, but not "know him."

Remember when Cheney said during a debate he had never met John Edwards and this picture showed him to be wrong? It seems like our Vice President has a very selective memory. So when he says he never saw anything about Wilson's trip until reading about it in the papers months later.....

[hat tip to Crooks and Liars who sent me an e-mail asking if I knew anything about Cheney formerly knowing Wilson. I didn't, but it started me on my search.]

Update: Earl at Daily Kos has more on this - he wrote about it last week.

< From the Vanity Fair Article on Joseph Wilson | FBI Collected Files on ACLU and Other Groups >
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    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#1)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    Cheney didn't remember meeting John Edwards, either. In both cases, it seems at least possible that they did meet (later confirmed in the Edwards instance) but that the meeting just wasn't a very memorable one.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    I knew this girl once. She met the guy of her dreams and when they went to apply for a marriage license she found out she'd married some guy she didn't even know years before in a total drunken blackout. It took her three years to track him down and get a divorce. Dick DUI Cheney doesn't remember Joe Wilson, just like he didn't remember John Edwards? Okaaaaaaay.....

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#4)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    Bush doesn't remember meeting Ken Lay, either. Rush Limbaugh conveniently forgot what he himself had done and won't recall it until after the trial is over. Similarly, the wingnuts have already forgotten this post, at least that's the only conclusion you can draw from the lack of comments we'll see from them about Cheney's latest big middle finger to the American people and the truth.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    Ras already doesn't remember what you said. He's like the Preznit. He's got Bushwipers -- his Reptilian eyelids just sweep-sweep, and while he smirks, his Bushwipers wipe away most of the TELLTALE look of utter cr*p-telling in their eyes. Get your pair of Bushwipers from participating conspirators in your congregation/county/KKK cell. Mention this ad, and get .10 off your mother's eyes. {color:Bush brown}

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    In both cases, it seems at least possible that they did meet (later confirmed in the Edwards instance) but that the meeting just wasn't a very memorable one.
    C'mon, ras, stop it. You're embarrassing yourself. "It seems at least possible"??? Good God. The phrase "clutching at straws" leaps to mind. Sometimes you just gotta admit that your guys are occasionally willing to lie to suit their purposes. I mean, really, do you think Cheney is George Washington? He's a politician, for god's sake. But I know that it's hard to accept that he might not be 100% honest 100% of the time. Because once you admit that Cheney might lie about this, you're gonna have to start wondering whether he's lied about anything else... And who knows where THAT might lead you.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    A few weeks ago, in the midst of research, I, too, came upon Cheney's comments to Russert denying knowing or meeting Ambassador Wilson. That "'John Edwards WHO?' says Dick Cheney" feeling came over me and the heat was on. I am sure I am not alone in wanting to be the one to come upon The Photo that cuts this Cheney lie into shreds. I lost a few hours of my life searching the many internets. Alas, I have yet to come up with a tangible photo to Out The Lie. With Wilson so admirably service Bush 1 and with Bush 1 documenting his gratitude for Wilson's service in traceable documents, it is fundamentally improbable that Defense Secretary Cheney doesn't know or never met Joe Wilson. Perhaps Cheney could have protected his lie by saying he doesn't know or never met Valerie Plame's husband. In the meanwhile, I urge all law-abiding truthseekers to continue the process of connecting the dots between Wilson, Cheney, Rove and... George W. Bush. The truth's out there.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    correcting graf 4 to read "With Wilson so admirably =serving= Bush 1"

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#9)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:19 PM EST
    According to the AP (via Kos), "Vice President Dick Cheney's top aide was among the sources for a Time magazine reporter's story about the identity of a CIA officer..." So VP Cheney is saying that he never heard of Wilson, yet his top aide Libby was one the sources of the leak about Wilson's wife.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#10)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    et al - I am LOL at you guys. You are willing to complain about anything. I swear you are worse, and I thought that was impossible, than the Repubs attacking Clinton for his lies regarding BJgate.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    Jim, You raise a good point. Now that the bar has been lowered to a BJ, how do we raise it back up? Should we raise it back up for those who orchestrated the lowering in the first place?

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#12)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    Roger - Perhaps you should ask the person who got the BJ. ;-) But to answer your question, yes. You hurt your cause when you make nutso like attacks about everything. Ask the Repubs how that helped them in '96 and '98. BTW - I just heard that Linda Trip is giving Rove tips on how to react when the press savages you for outing a high government official... ;-)

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#13)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    Jim, We still have a problem. Since we both agree that the BJ was not such a big deal, does the group that brought us so low get to say "gee, that went too far, raise the bar back when it's our turn"? Good solutions seem elusive at this point

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    Hey, the "I can't remember" defense worked for Reagan during the Iran-Contra hearings. Isn't it the new Standard in Republican Executive defenses?

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    Jeralyn I posted a diary on this subject at DKos last week. It may have a piece or two to add. Hope it does. Double Super Secret Update: Cheney and Joe Wilson

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#16)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    PPJ:
    You are willing to complain about anything
    That's because Cheney will lie about anything. I swear, the man must have some kind of journal where he records his lies, just to keep his stories straight. ("Let's see, July 15, 2005 - never met Wilson, don't know him from Adam, nobody saw me, they can't prove anything").

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#17)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    It seems logical that Cheney has never met Wilson. Joseph Wilson was in Baghdad during the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait, risking his life to defend his countrymen. Dick Cheny was well protected on a carrier task force in the gulf. Two very different americans. One, a patriotic diplomat (unlike the nut job Bolton). The other a corporate war profiteer with a government post.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#18)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    Roger - No, both sides don't. Remember, as a social liberal I don't speak for the Repubs. Of course, but does the guy and gal - Bubba and Monica - get a completely free pass? How about: "We should have went to a Motel Six..." Of course Clinton did get zapped for perjury by a Federal Judge. License to practive pulled, big fine... So maybe that makes it okay. Now what could Monica give us.... hmmmm. I know............a purse.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:21 PM EST
    Attempted thread hijack in progress.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:21 PM EST
    I like this site a lot better before the repubs list their talking points. It would be real nice if they stopped doing that as it would be refreshing to see an original argument or thought from most of the right on this site.... Cheney only uses the right side of his brain and if Wilson happened to be at his left, there is no way possible he would recall that. Memo to John Edwards et al, be certain to stand on his right side, it helps with recall.

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:21 PM EST
    Wilson himself was just on the Ed Schultz show on Air America, where he noted that he was in the Baghdad embassy during the first Gulf War when Cheney was Secretary of Defense, in response to a question about whether Cheney "knows" him. He followed up by saying that he has thankfully never actually met Cheney. (My paraphrase).

    Re: Question About Cheney and Wilson (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:22 PM EST
    I found this in quote by Wilson in the Salon.com article "I Accuse":
    Cheney always likes to point out that he never met Joe Wilson. And as I like to point out, I never met Dick Cheney. During the first Gulf War, there is some question as to whether Cheney held what I consider to be the extremist views he holds today.
    Link to: I Accuse