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LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's

By Last Night in Little Rock, Section Misconduct
Posted on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 04:40:00 PM EST
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by Last Night in Little Rock

In a post last month about the LAPD SWAT Team shooting a man holding his toddler, one that generated vitriolic comments from both sides, the autopsy results are out this week: police killed the girl, blowing her brains out according to CNN.com and the LA Times.

Both articles note that the toddler had a small amount of cocaine in her system, either ingested from touching the coke her father had on his desk or from her mother's milk.

Eleven officers fired 100 rounds at the man who first fired on them and then fired 40 rounds.

It is still hard for me to imagine that he could use a toddler as a human shield and not be killed himself. I've tried several murder cases where the ME testified that a shot to the cerebral cortex produces instant death and collapse with no pain felt by the person shot.

I purposely took no position on that post. I just reported it. I'm usually cautious enough to wait for more facts before pointing fingers.

Now I will: What were they thinking? Why just wildly fire at a man holding a defenseless child? Where were the snipers who could have taken him out with one shot? Weren't they and the bystanders well enough protected to take the single shot that would take him out? I watched all the TV reports online, and no TV station was close enough to record it, so they were kept away.

Another thing I've learned about SWAT Teams is that they get hyped up for the attack, they thrive on the adrenaline rush, and they get itchy trigger fingers. Where was the restraint they are supposed to show? Back at the office?

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    LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's | 17 comments (17 topical)
    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Utterly horrifying.

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#2)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Talk about saddam? come on the cops been doing that for years, do any of you remember a little black woman who was shot to death for yelling about her light bill?..remember people L.A. Is now in the hands of the third world political people, the cops who murdered the baby are hispanic cops, so what did you think would happen in a third world non rights amermex? get real get, people its coming to the end of a nation of laws and has been for years now, the cops will walk on this and its as normal as can be in the third world nation. understand what 3-7-90 is and what it means to you and your life and death. 3 percent rich 7 percent controller's 90 percent you under the gun. is bin laden a friend of bush?

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#3)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    LNILR, that WAS the swat team, she was killed by rifle bullets. The coroner lied originally and said she was killed by a single rifle shot to the head. Then, when he found out there was a possibilty of the family doing an autopsy he released that she had 2 GSWs in her leg, (maybe a thru and thru.) There is no way he could have missed 2 other bullet wounds on a baby. Maybe he's lying about the tox screen on the baby too.
    One officer was wounded during the final burst of gunfire. Bratton has said it will be impossible to determine which SWAT officer fired the shot that killed Suzie.
    Maybe, but the baby wasn't with her father when located after the assault. Find the bullets that killed her and match up the marks if the bullets are in any kind of shape to do so. (Somehow the fragments are always identifiable when a perp fires them.) The cops made the assault after they shot the dad once and thought he was down. He shot a cop, and then they fired rounds blindly thru the walls ... not smart w/ a baby known to be in the room. It was revenge for shooting a cop.

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#4)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Murder of a little baby is murder in iraq under saddam or in the usa under bush, killing kids and old people for law and order is a line saddam would use. by the way this murder happened weeks ago, happy to see someone say something. oh yes, O'Reilly said it was justice. www.billoreilly.com or fox news

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#5)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    Where's Patrick?

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    "is bin laden a friend of bush?" Or are they twins, seperated at birth? Which one is a spoiled son of a powerful politician from a wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine organizations, has no respect for the democratic electorial process, bombs innocents and uses war to deny people their civil rights? I gotta admit I stole that one Boondocks.

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    RP, pat has already stated that is it OK to kill babies if the 'perp' is dead too. Besides, once pat is proved wrong he has never admitted it. Search on 'TASER' on this site. All pat ever has to refute are personal attacks, and rarely addresses the fatcs.
    Well you know what they say about opinions. Some are just stink, enjoy that club. Thanks for sharing yours.
    You're part of the problem in our county. So willing to go off, half informed with little or no investigation. So filled with hated and fear of that which you don't understand. If I had your would view, I'd kill myself.
    Thank God we have you to tell how to think.
    Your opinions and the inferences you draw from the facts are what I'm showing to be a sophomoric attempt to slander law enforcement.
    I thought not, you must have learned through osmosis or something. Which makes sense since knowledge would move from an area of high concentration, (Outside your head) to an area of low concentration (Inside your head).
    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:59 PM EST
    this case is analagous to the numerous deaths of citizens in the past twenty years caused by cops stupidly engaging in high speed car chases with small time criminals. ultimately the end result in many cities was the victims sued the crap out of the police dept., and WON. of course that got the attention of the people running those cities and many banned high speed chases. we clearly have an arrogant, wild west mentality with some police departments and the only way to curtail this is with successful litigation. the murder-by-cop of this little girl is the stupidest thing I've seen in years. "ironically" where are the "right to life" people when this sort of thing happens? WHY aren't they picketing and protesting outside of the LAPD headquarters??

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:00 PM EST
    “RP, pat has already stated that is it OK to kill babies if the 'perp' is dead too.”
    I looked through the thread and couldn’t find a single post where Patrick said what you claim. This is an interesting comment on your character; trashing a man while he is absent, unable to defend your negative interpretation of his comments. Here, let me try… Sailor has already state is OK for folks to murder cops as long as they have children. I won’t bother digging up all your ad-homonym (I certainly wouldn’t have any trouble) and will simply let your previous comment stand for what it is.

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:00 PM EST
    Blaming the LAPD for a SWAT shooting in a hostage crisis is like blaming Bush for hurricanes. Even a coverup at the coroners is not a hanging crime. You want to have police, you have to accept a certain amount of mistakes and errors. Bratton made mistakes in how he handled this, but protecting SWAT in a time of terrorist threats (real or political) is probably his priority.

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:00 PM EST
    Thanks PW for providing a link that proves my claim that pat endorsed killing a baby to get a perp ""this criminal was hiding behind a baby while shooting at police, three separate times. Of course it's the cops fault."" While pat was being sarcastic about the last sentence, he did endorse killing a child, if a criminal was hiding behind it. Pat also said "You know for sure the cops fired 90 rounds or I think you're talking out of you "opinion." You're part of the problem in our county." Well, it turns out they fired over 100, as admitted by the cops. PW, you are perfectly willing to slander me when you write "Sailor has already state is OK for folks to murder cops as long as they have children" Please provide links!? I just quoted pat, you made something up and attributed it to me. PW, we frequently disagree, and occasionally we agree. But I never made up a quote that you said to prove my point. What exactly is your problem with me and/or the facts?

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:01 PM EST
    BTW, "trashing a man while he is absent, unable to defend your negative interpretation of his comments", since none of us are in the same room, how would I know pat was absent? I don't even trash pat to his 'face', I just provide links and I think he responds with opinion and makes personal attacks. What exactly does a 'lbertarian' have at stake in the give and take between me and a cop?

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:01 PM EST
    Sp: "this case is analagous to the numerous deaths of citizens in the past twenty years caused by cops stupidly engaging in high speed car chases with small time criminals." No, it isn't. This case is analogous to hostage crises where an innocent person is killed. It is not a small-time crime to shoot a cop, to shoot at cops, or to hold one's family hostage.

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:01 PM EST
    "Well, it turns out they fired over 100, as admitted by the cops." right. well, let's be clear here regarding the ramping up of the use of deadly force by police forces in so called first world countries like the U.S. and Great Britain. that South American guy the British cops recently killed simply because he was running away from them and had dark skin?? the cop shot him IN THE HEAD FIVE TIMES! ???? what was left to shoot after the second shot I wonder?

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#15)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:02 PM EST
    I'm here, Thank you all for the kind thoughts....I think my position on this incident is quite clear. Tragic, but the fault of the father who forced the cops into the shooting. If the cops hadn't fired when they did and some other innocent person was shot and killed, we'd be hearing about how horribly they screwed up failing to act. Either way, it's a lose lose for the cops, but that's what they pay us for.
    Besides, once pat is proved wrong he has never admitted it. Search on 'TASER' on this site.
    LOL....Thanks for the laugh.
    All pat ever has to refute are personal attacks, and rarely addresses the fatcs(sic).
    I'll admit, I don't like you and have no patience for your brand of half-informed, half-true rhetoric. Since I realize someone as closed minded as you is probably a lost cause I don't see the benefit in wasting my time trying to prove anything to you. If you want the proof, all you have to do is open your mind.....It's all there in front of you already. We call it life.
    I purposely took no position on that post. I just reported it. I'm usually cautious enough to wait for more facts before pointing fingers.
    Mr. Little Rock says, But in reading the post, this little tidbit jumps right out at me,
    And are we suprised that the Chief of Police passes judgment on the shooting before the facts are in? Not me. When I was a deputy prosecuting attorney in another life, 30 years ago, when on call, we had to go to every officer involved shooting. That was before cell phones so we were stuck at home. I've been to a few, and the cops fall all over themselves to suck up and make it justified. Apparently times have not changed.
    To me, that's pretty much taking a position ain't it?

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#16)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:03 PM EST
    “What exactly does a 'lbertarian' have at stake in the give and take between me and a cop?”
    I’m interested for two reasons: First, my father is a police officer so I am intimately familiar with what a crappy thankless job it can sometimes be. I am consistently amazed at the hypersensitivity by the left to the mere appearance of impropriety or error. And of all places, a defense oriented blog; remember innocent until proven guilty*. You expect nothing short of perfection from these folks from the humble traffic stop to split second life and death situations. I know the reality of police brutality and corruption, but I am still willing to hold judgment until all the facts are in. Second, Pat and I have disagreed many times, at polar extremes of issues. He has never been rude or attacked my character, something that can be hard to come by here. So I like him and want to see him stick around. If all those things you said about Pat were true the content of his comment here and your exchanges would be enough for folks to decide who has made their case, and who has done so in a civil fashion. I think a person is better defined by their own body of comment than by another’s depiction of it and their character. And this was my point, the way you seem to be defining yourself; that, and to stick up for someone who was offline. *(unless you are a cop)

    Re: LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    PW. pat is here, how/why would you think he was unavailable? PW
    I think a person is better defined by their own body of comment than by another’s depiction of it and their character. And this was my point, the way you seem to be defining yourself; that, and to stick up for someone who was offline.
    If you read my posts and pat's I'm confident you will find mine have links supporting my beliefs. Once again, how would I know pat was offline? Would you be consistent and stick up for me when I'm offline?
    First, my father is a police officer so I am intimately familiar with what a crappy thankless job it can sometimes be.
    Well, you've just shown you aren't impartial, you just have an agenda the same as pat's. BTW, would either of you care to comment on the baby having 2 rifle bullets pumped into her whan the cororner lied originally and said it was a single shot to the head? Do you have a comment on the fact that the cop who killed the 13 yr old lied about being endangered? Do you both endorse TASER products as having never killed anyone? And BTW, please provide links, just as I do when I make assertions.

    LAPD killed toddler in shooting father's arm's | 17 comments (17 topical)