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Accountability Now

By TChris, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 11:45:42 PM EST
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by TChris

Expect the White House to deflect any investigation that asks the questions posed today by Harry Reid:

In a letter to the Senate's Homeland Security Committee chairwoman, Reid, the Senate Democratic leader, pressed for a wide-ranging investigation and answers to several questions, including: "How much time did the president spend dealing with this emerging crisis while he was on vacation? Did the fact that he was outside of Washington, D.C., have any effect on the federal government's response?"

Reid said in his letter that Collins' panel should pursue answers to several questions. Among them, why Bush and administration officials said no one anticipated the breach of the levees despite public studies and warnings, whether budget cuts thwarted the Army Corps of Engineers and whether a sufficient number of troops were dispatched promptly. Reid also asked whether FEMA was hurt because it was stripped of Cabinet-level status and folded into the Homeland Security Department.

Republican senators have already started the stonewall, contending that the Senate should deal with disaster recovery first and ask questions later. But the Senate has more than one committee and a whole lot of staff members. It's capable of tackling both tasks with due attention.

In this administration, accountability delayed is accountability forgotten. With more storms swirling this hurricane season, accountability can't wait for a day that never comes.

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    Accountability Now | 54 comments (54 topical)
    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    In the same article Nancy Pelosi exposes, once again, Bush's psychopathic personality. This man is a danger to himself and others, and should in my opinion, be grabbed by the next cop who gets near him (Secret Service probably qualifies as cop, nudge) and taken to Bellvue for at least 30 days "observation":
    At a news conference, Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's choice for head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency had "absolutely no credentials." She related that she urged Bush at the White House on Tuesday to fire Brown. "He said 'Why would I do that?'" Pelosi said. "'I said because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right last week.' And he said 'What didn't go right?'"
    Just f****** incredible! What next from this bozo? There is absolutely no credible defence of Bush left. Anyone who thinks so also should be checking into Bellvue. ------ How's your foot, Jim?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#2)
    by Steven Sanderson on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Serial killers are commonly thought of as shadowy figures living on the fringe of American society. Many of the worst of them, however, exist and often thrive in plain sight wearing expensive clothing as they proudly proclaim their religious piety and conservative leadership abilities.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#3)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    You want to see something unbelieveable? Check out Bob Harris's map of those areas in Louisiana mentioned in Bush's pre-Katrina Declaration of Emergency (found through crooks and liars). It includes all the areas in Louisiana except those most affected by Katrina, like New Orleans. Harris has a link to the President's Declaration of Emergency so that you can check it out for yourself.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    edger - My foot is wonderful. Tried to talk anyone into committing suicide yet today? Peloski needs to check the polls. I just saw this on FNC - 38% think no one is responsible and 13% think Bush is responsible.... And this is after 10 days of pounding by the MSM, the Left and the Demos. This low figure bodes ill for your side, edger. As time goes on and we get more stories about how LA officals blocked the Red Cross from the Superdome and blocked FEMA's mobile hospitals, the buck will flutter over and stop where it belongs. But...maybe if Pelosi had threatened to hit him he would 'fessed up.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Good Morning Jimmy!!: My foot is wonderful. Tried to talk anyone into committing suicide yet today? Easy Jim, jeeze, it's early yet... are you in a hurry? You don't mind if I have my coffee first do you? ;-) Bush League Job Approval Thursday September 08, 2005--Forty-six percent (46%) of American adults now approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President. Fifty-three percent (53%) disapprove. Thirty-seven percent (37%) of Americans now Strongly Disapprove of the President's job performance while just 25% Strongly Approve. Earlier in the year, those numbers were essentially even. Looking ahead to Election 2006, the Missouri Senate race between Republican Jim Talent and Democrat Claire McCaskill starts out in a dead heat. When looking at the disaster in New Orleans and surrounding areas, just 28% of Americans say that the federal government has done a good or an excellent job. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, consumer confidence has fallen to its lowest level in more than two years. ---------- It's NOT about the "team"... It IS about the "leader". “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” —George W. Bush, May 24, 2005

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    The insidious Republicans are trying to make the victims responsible. Barbarian Bush speaks for all Republicans -she thinks this is a good thing for the poor folk --it will show them how they could live --if only they would be like her....a total frickin tool

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Sure Jim - blame the victims when you can't defend Bush... Why don't you get down there and tell one of them that face-to-face, Jim? I'll bet they are all so confused by what has happened, that they just don't understand it is their own fault... but it shouldn't take you too long to straighten 'em out, huh Jim? ---------- It's NOT about the "team"... It IS about the "leader". “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” —George W. Bush, May 24, 2005

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    LA officials stopped nothing how about some proof of those statements

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    No study to assign blame is necessary just acknowledge the facts

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#10)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    isn't putting bush in charge of any "investigation" tantamount to having the fox guard the henhouse?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    What a load. - Ask and you shall receive.
    A Red Cross official, Carol Miller, said on NPR's Diane Rehm show this morning that the Red Cross was told not to provide aid at the Superdome by the Louisiana, not U.S., Department of Homeland Security. Audio here: http://ww.wamu.org/programs/dr/ (click link on left side of page) the comment is about 35:40 into the show.
    Note I have deleted a "w" in the url to prevent it from skewing the site. Link
    As hurricane-battered patients head north to safety, Charlotte health care workers will travel to Louisiana today in a one-of-a-kind mobile hospital -- two 18-wheel tractor trailer rigs outfitted for surgery and other emergency services. The mobile hospital, designed by a team of doctors at Carolinas Medical Center, will leave this morning to provide on-site medical care for at least six weeks along the Gulf Coast where hospitals have closed because of the storm. "We are bringing the best medical care North Carolina has to offer to the hurricane victims," said Dr. Tom Blackwell, a Carolinas Medical Center emergency physician who oversaw construction of the hospital-on-wheels...... BAY ST. LOUIS, Miss. The first patient at the state-of-the-art mobile hospital designed for disasters was a puppy. The dog was dehydrated and brought in by hurricane survivors living in a tent city. But it wasn't very long before suffering human patients found their way into the remarkable medical center set up in the parking lot of a flooded Kmart. In the first 16 hours, doctors treated about 100 people: nasty head wounds, car crash victims, cuts from storm debris, dehydration. With such demand, it is hard to imagine that the doctors weren't allowed to set up shop in Louisiana, their original destination. They were stymied by red tape there. "Mississippi stepped up and said if they don't want you, we'll take you," Dr. Thomas Blackwell, medical director of the hospital and an emergency doctor at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, N.C., said Monday. He said the delay in getting deployed was a dispute with Louisiana over what they'd be allowed to do.
    Link edger - It is obvious that you have never managed a large group of people. And you really need to start thinking logically. Bush's bad numbers - 13% - think he is responsible, come at the height of the problem, and after 10 days of the Left, the Demos and their water carrying buds in the MSM pounding away. (See Krugman's inaccurate article in the NYT) As time goes by, and as people start to understand that FEMA can't come in until after the hurricane has passed, and until they have been requested to come in, they'll start asking the question. Why was LA so confused? In the 9/2 Washington Post article, in which the Governor turns down FEMA taking over the evacuation, the reasons given are:
    Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law.
    Link BTW – You write;
    Easy Jim, jeeze, it's early yet... are you in a hurry? You don't mind if I have my coffee first do you? ;-)
    You may want to re-visit this site. I don’t think you were smiling when you did the 1:04PM comment. Would you like to just drop the subject? Works for me.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Gee FEMA managed to come to Fla before the hurricane was over as usual half truths and mostly irrelevant crap read the time line and not the pr spin

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#13)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Jim, The WAPO is guessing just as much as everyone else at this point. They've already screwed the pooch once in the post hurricane reporting, yet you continue to use them as your gospel. “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” —George W. Bush, May 24, 2005 I love that quote.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Jim:You may want to re-visit this site. I don’t think you were smiling when you did the 1:04PM comment. Would you like to just drop the subject? Works for me Hey - interpret it anyway that "works" for you, Jim! ;-)

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#15)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Jim, help me here. Two days after ther disaster, the president went to a birthday party and a concert, where he was photographed demonstrating that he does not know how to play a guitar. Condi Rice took in a Broadway show and spent $1000 on a single pair of shoes, no doubt loafers. Cheney has not said or done anything to indicate that he is even alive, other than attend a baseball game and stand in the background of a photo-op. A thousand trained rescue workers sit in an Atlanta hotel, recieving sexual harrassment instruction, and then are told their job will be to hand out flyers with the FEMA phone number on them. Many of them return home in disgust, having done nothing to save lives because FEMA's first priority was wanting them to know they shouldn't goose storm victims. Fifty of them are finally given an "assignment," which is to stand in the background while the president gives a photo op in a phony aid station that is torn down as soon as the reporters leave. A helicopter crew is repremanded for using the return leg of their resupply flights to, ya know, save lives. The USS Bataan sits offshore with a 600-bed hosptial on board, and gets not a single patient. None of these is an action of the local authorities. Please tell us how these FEDERAL activities saved lives. Finally, after dozens of studies, magazine articles and books, plus several high-level briefings before the storm all stated that the levees and floodwalls of NOLA were at severe risk, the president said that no one ever thought the levees woudl break. But we were shown photos of him participating in a videoconference discussing that very subject while the storm was still approaching. How did he not know what he had been told in a briefing a few days earlier?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Despite the Whitehouse disavowing Barbarian Bush's remarks I see she does relect the attitude of Bush supoorters Bar thinks the hurricane will be helpful to the lives of people she doesn't approve of.... finally she will be able to go back to NO --after it only wealthy white people will be left.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Repack: You have a knack for cutting through the crap and getting dirctly to the point, more than most of us here, myself included. Thanks!

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Somebody of authority stopped the Red Cross from entering downtown NOLA. Powerline, via Major Garrett, says it came from the LA State Dept of Homland Security. That clarifies absolutley nothing.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Che: I love that quote. You can hear him say it, if you like... “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” —George W. Bush, May 24, 2005

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Posted by Che's Lounge at September 8, 2005 09:59 AM Somebody of authority stopped the Red Cross from entering downtown NOLA. Powerline, via Major Garrett, says it came from the LA State Dept of Homland Security. That clarifies absolutley nothing. Fox News' Major Garrett - The Red Cross was asked not to distribute food and water because people thought it wouldn't be needed because resources were coming for the evacuation -- turns out food and water was necessaey because no one from the Feds-the only ones who could organize evacuation resources was coming

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    oops should read ...turns out the Fed wasn't coming. But the whole point of the Homeland security department and putting FEMA in the agency was to avoid what happened. And remember FEMA did a practice run in New Orleans --what if this had happened where they hadn't practiced. Doing a job badly you weren't qualified for in the first place isn't a defense.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    Jimmy: ...the country sees it for it is. Yes, it does... I hope that was help enough. I am here to serve. How sweet! A wise man never rejects a good faith offer. Very true... And also knows one when he sees one. ;-) ----- It's NOT about the "team"... It IS about the "leader". “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” —George W. Bush, May 24, 2005

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    Quoting from fnc, powerline and laffinattheleft are not exactly sources anyone but a kool-aid drinker would believe. Speaking of feeble ... I mean fema, here is a quote from week ago tuesday:
    Even on Tuesday, as still-rising waters covered most of New Orleans, FEMA official Bill Lokey reassured residents in a Baton Rouge briefing. “I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is filling up like a bowl,” Lokey said. “That's just not happening.”
    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    For PPJ from the American Red Cross Web Page: Disaster FAQs Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans? * Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders. * The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city. * The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents. * The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering. * The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access. * The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives. * As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    The Red Cross is not FEMA. Please stop confusing the two. They are two entirely different organizations.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#27)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    jim, did ms. miller identify the LA official she says told the red cross to not come into NO? i have no idea at this moment what the truth is, and neither do you. absent specific identifying information from ms. miller, we never will. given a name, it should be easy enough to verify her claim.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#28)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    To all those who say it was a state and local prob and the feds hands were tied, I humbly direct you to this left wing site:from Aug 26th
    Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.
    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#29)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    Jim, Please show me where I said I don't believe the Red Cross. You cannot. I just want to know who exactly told them they could not enter. Naming an office that has both a State and Federal title clears up nothing. I'm trying to stay objective while you make s**t up.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#30)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    Here's the truth about the Bataan: From Sept 3rd Crew of Navy ship ready to play larger role in relief effort
    But today the Bataan's hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty. A good share of its 1,200 sailors could also go ashore to help with the relief effort, but they haven't been asked. The Bataan has been in the stricken region the longest of any military unit, but federal authorities have yet to fully utilize the ship
    [...]
    Then the Bataan was ordered to move to the waters off Biloxi, Miss., and LCU-1656 was ordered to return. The landing craft was still 40 miles from New Orleans, but it wouldn't be able to deliver its cargo.
    [...]
    By Friday evening the sizeable medical staff on board the Bataan also hadn't been given its mission. The staff's role in the relief effort was not up to the Navy, but to FEMA officials direction the overall effort.
    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#31)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    PPJ: I must have missed your explanation for why Bush said that no one knew the levees and floodwalls were at risk, when that risk has been the subject of books and magazine articles for decades, and a FEMA study done this year, as well as the briefing he was given before the storm. If all this did not convey the message to him, what means should be used? Help me understand why Chertoff said he woke up Tuesday morning and read a headline that said that New Orleans had dodged a bullet. First, no one seems to be able to find that newspaper. Can you help us identify it? It must be pretty obscure and very limited in circulation. Second, why is Chertoff waiting until this (obscure) newspaper hits his porch to check on these events? Didn't someone invent something called a telephone? What might Chertoff's job description be? Also, perhaps you could clear up why even though Condi Rice's immediate duties do not cover such events, she was so unconcerned that she paid no attention whatsoever to the matter. Surely the expertise of hers that we have been told about ad nauseum could have been put to some good use, but at the very least, don't you think it's a little, um, cavalier to take in a show and drop a rack on one pair of shoes, while America is in the middle of the worst catastrophe in living memory?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#32)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    PPJ, When you read that September 4 Washington Post article, did you happen to come across this correction at the top of the page.
    A Sept. 4 article on the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina incorrectly said that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) had not declared a state of emergency. She declared an emergency on Aug. 26.
    Now here is the reason that they had to run that correction.
    As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.
    What the "senior Bush official" said was a bald faced lie. We know that because we have a copies of the declaration. PPJ you quote from the article but somehow you forget to mention this. Why is that? Why did the "senior Bush official" tell a bold face lie?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Corruption, greed, abuse of power and cronyism and apathy on part of all has contributed to this disaster. I am ashamed of my Government and especially the President's response to the images of elderly and babies dying in New Orleans. What if one of those ladies was your mother. What if one of those babies was your child. Regardless of race or how rich or poor a person this is not only "unacceptable", this is criminal. I have no confidence in a federal government who abandons its people. What happened to the Rule of Law? Those who create, enforce and judge the law are required to follow the law themselves. Why did the Commander and Chief not call in the U.S. Marines? What ever happened to accountability. Harry Truman took responsibility, he said "The Buck Stops Here" Bush says "Everyone is playing the blame game" I don't see any leadership. Awesome power requires awesome responsibility . Fixing all the blame on local government (and they must also be made accountable for their part) is irresponsible because no local government is safe if they are always liable. Does anyone in Federal government have any courage to level with the American people. If politicians can send young people to fight and die in a hell like Falluja, why do they not have the courage to tell the truth, even if it means losing their job, or power or whatever. Anything less is a betrayal and proves that our leaders are unfit for command. I don't think this country can handle anymore of this. How many times does this administration have to fail. How many more people have to die? 9/11 was a traumatic intel failure 3000 dead. Iraq is a traumatic intel failure 2000 U.S. 20000+ innocent Iraqi dead and a costly failed policy. The Bush legacy is death and destruction. Are you going to wait until the Bush Horror show comes to your town? It is the Civic duty of all Americans to not request but demand that there be an independent commission that can investigate the leadership of all three branches of Federal Government. I believe the Judicial Leadership shows a terrible lack of judgment if they do not express their "disappointment". I guess we are not important enough to rate their attention. We dishonor all those who have suffered or lost their lives if we do not hold our Government accountable. We are all to blame because we have such low standards for the people whom we trust to protect our families. We don't need fake Patriotism, we need people who place their country ahead of their own selfish desires. Look around, most people aren't even thinking critically. The people who are not saying anything or are asking the wrong questions are part of the problem as well. We let our worst citizens be our most powerful leaders. The reason the Democrats are so weak is because we haven't given them any teeth. Is anybody pissed off enough yet?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Jim: How's your foot, Jim? Got teeth marks all over it?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#35)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    minor correction Repack; Condi was needed at the office to coordinate the international offers of help.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Speaker: Daniel C. Dennett Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy Director, Center for Cognitive Studies Tufts University Subject: Social Sciences Produced by: Tufts University Runtime: 00:56:47 Player: Windows Media Player EVOLUTION, CULTURE, and TRUTH

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Blaming Bush for the levees failing is clearly partisan. The inadequate levees have been a problem for decades. Yes, Clinton did have some money set aside, but it was a fraction of what was needed. There is no consensus indicating that any levee improved or not, could’ve withstood a storm the size of Katrina. If you want to blame politicians, then blame the Mayor and Governor. Standard protocol for FEMA response is that state and local authorities respond first. The total chaos created by lack of state and local planning setup the federal government for failure.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    ful leaders. The reason the Democrats are so weak is because we haven't given them any teeth. Is anybody pissed off enough yet? Posted by edger at September 8, 2005 07:12 PM Jim: How's your foot, Jim? Got teeth marks all over it? Posted by Sailor at September 8, 2005 07:16 PM minor correction Repack; Condi was needed at the office to coordinate the international offers of help. Posted by edger at September 8, 2005 07:27 PM Speaker: Daniel C. Dennett Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy Director, Center for Cognitive Studies Tufts University Subject: Social Sciences Produced by: Tufts University Runtime: 00:56:47 " Yes, Clinton did have some money set aside" and Clinton appropriated it for the specific purpose of fixing those levees." But you folks decided that the blue dress and homosexuals and sodomy and gay marriage held a higher priority than fixing the levees.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    I don't know how that las post happened, but I do believe Republicans decided that a blue dress and homosexuals and sodomy and gay marriage held a higher priority than fixing those levees. Why do I believe this? Because they never talked about the failing levees. All they talked about was blue dresses and homosexuals and sodomy and gay marriages.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    And no, I don't agree with their proposed next amendment that Gay Marriages should be unconstitutional.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    edger - My foot is fine. My eye is sharp. gently writes:
    I don't know how that las post happened, but I do believe Republicans decided that a blue dress and homosexuals and sodomy and gay marriage held a higher priority than fixing those levees.
    Given that Clinton was the Pres with the blue dress fiasco, I am sure he will be shocked to find out he is a Repub. And don't bring gay marriage in as something I oppose. I don't. And I have so posted several times. rezfox writes:
    What happened to the Rule of Law? Those who create, enforce and judge the law are required to follow the law themselves. Why did the Commander and Chief not call in the U.S. Marines? What ever happened to accountability
    I doubt that this will get through to you, but one more time. It doesn't work like that. The state has to call for help. To have it otherwise would make us just like one of the Bananna Republics. And, since you don't understand that, I can see why you think Bush is just about to take over the country. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878
    In a nutshell, this act bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the act.
    Che - Read the quote. She specifically says the state, and not the US. Still having problems. But hey. Since her statements hurt your core beliefs, she is obviously lying. Uh Huh. Sure. No doubt. Sailor - Problem is, there is plenty of information there that has been verified. Did you bother to note that the retraction was from a Leftist site? John H - The part you mentioned has been beat to death. What you don't mention is that the part I quote has not. Come on, John. Does one mistake by the WaPost mean you will never believe what they write again? Or only if you don't like it.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    gently quotes from the Red Cross website:
    * Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders. * The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.
    Che - Does that clear it up? Gently - Thank you for making my point. The Red Cross was there, but the state didn't want'em in. I guess all those people that the Mayor of NO's had sent to the dome could just eat cake.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Jim: My foot is fine. My eye is sharp. Were you even in the room?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Clinton didn't have a problem withe the blue dress, in fact he came to like it. It was repubs that had a problem with it;-) Actually, the pres did send in the army, navy and marines, just not from the navy ship closest (see Bataan), or the army or marines closest
    The U.S. Army has a large facility, Fort Polk, in Leesville, La., about 270 miles northwest of New Orleans. Officials at Fort Polk, which has nearly 8,000 active-duty soldiers, said their contribution so far has consisted of a few dozen soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division manning purification equipment and driving half-ton trucks filled with supplies and equipment. The first contingent of soldiers didn't receive orders until Saturday afternoon.
    [...]
    Instead, the Pentagon chose to send upwards of 7,500 soldiers from the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas and the 82nd Airborne Division from Fort Bragg, N.C., along with Marines from California and North Carolina.
    edger, please stop baiting ppj, it only encourages his delusions. I'm hoping if we ignore him he'll go away.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#45)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Sailor: edger, please stop baiting ppj, it only encourages his delusions I suppose you're right, Sailor... It's just so much fun. Goodnight, all. Keep the bright lights shining on this sad mess...

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#46)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Jim, Lacking any more information, I would ask why there is a state dept. of a cabinet level agency (read "Homeland Security")? Other federal agencies, the FBI for instance, have state offices. But they are still overseen by the central decision makers in Washington. You see the word Louisiana in the title and draw your conclusions. I see the words Homeland Security and still remain neutral. If it was a state decision, I'll call for their heads. But I'm not even close to being convinced. It's not that I don't believe the Red Cross. I just want to know WHO in that office told the RC to stay out, and WHO they worked for.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    PPJ, you quoted it but maybe you didn't read it. The state didnt want the Red Cross in Louisiana because: This is very important: "Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city. " It is important to the state for health reasons to get people out of the city and to discourage others for the same reason not to enter the city. But the American Red Cross is not FEMA! "I guess all those people that the Mayor of NO's had sent to the dome could just eat cake" No, the Red Cross said this: "The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives." They didn't want them to eat cake, they wanted them to live. And remember, at the time, the Superdome was supposed to have been built strong enough to withstand a Category 5 Hurricane. "As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met" Please read everything, Jim, before you go into attack mode. And remember, the Red Cross does not serve the same function or play the same role as FEMA.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Fool, get a clue. Why bat for a an idiot that would let you, your children and your eldery parents starve for 5 days. You people need to focus on the trend of this administration. Don't wait until your city ends up in rubble.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    I doubt that this will get through to you, but one more time. It doesn't work like that. The state has to call for help. To have it otherwise would make us just like one of the Bananna Republics. And, since you don't understand that, I can see why you think Bush is just about to take over the country. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 In a nutshell, this act bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the act. If these details were not worked out by the federal govt. before an event has occured than they did not plan. We don't want to hear excuses. Have you even ever served in the military?

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    The United States has seen the worst terrorist attack and the worst natural disaster in its 229 year history in less than 4 years under Bush. Is the guy cursed...or just incredibly incompetent? You decide.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    We have been a banana republic for 4 years already.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. This does not apply anyway. They just needed to bring food and water.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Coast guard was aready on the scene.

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    Posted by Repack Rider at September 8, 2005 06:16 PM
    I must have missed your explanation for why Bush said that no one knew the levees and floodwalls were at risk, when that risk has been the subject of books and magazine articles for decades, and a FEMA study done this year, as well as the briefing he was given before the storm. If all this did not convey the message to him, what means should be used?
    Posted by Emory777 at September 8, 2005 07:42 PM
    Blaming Bush for the levees failing is clearly partisan. The inadequate levees have been a problem for decades. Yes, Clinton did have some money set aside, but it was a fraction of what was needed.
    Jeff Johnson, CNSNews.com Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005
    The Bush administration is being widely criticized for the emergency response to Hurricane Katrina and the allegedly inadequate protection for "the big one" that residents had long feared would hit New Orleans.
    But more than ten years of research and reporting on hurricane and flood damage mitigation efforts in and around New Orleans indicate that local and state officials did not use federal money that was available for levee improvements or coastal reinforcement and often did not secure local matching funds that would have generated even more federal funding.
    story continues at this web-site: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/7/90925.shtml

    Re: Accountability Now (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    rezfox writes:
    Fool, get a clue. Why bat for a an idiot that would let you, your children and your eldery parents starve for 5 days. You people need to focus on the trend of this administration. Don't wait until your city ends up in rubble.
    Fool? It is not I who can't grasp the fact that the LA homeland security group, as the RC has said, wouldn't let the RC into NO immediately after the hurriane went through to provide food, water and other assistance. You see, it doesn't matter what FEMA was, or was not, doing. The RC was right there. Ready to go. Why not use them? Now, remember what Forrest Gump said, rezfox. "Stupid is as stupid does."

    Accountability Now | 54 comments (54 topical)