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New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"?

By Last Night in Little Rock, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 05:53:44 AM EST
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by Last Night in Little Rock

This odd piece crossed my computer yesterday, and I didn't read it until today. It is from the website Intellectual Activist, and it posits that the "welfare state" is the cause of chaos in New Orleans.

People in disasters work together, fights and gunshots are proof the "welfare state" is a failure, NOLA is Baghdad under water, etc. It represents a similar thought pattern to those who believe that the people of NOLA deserve what they got if they didn't leave, neglecting to mention that 100,000 simply had no means to leave.

The author of the piece mentions "the projects" in Chicago that were "mercifully" torn down. He also admits that Fox News is his source of information.

Despite the false name of the website and the hidden agenda of potential racism, one might want to read it to think what the Bush apologists are thinking: The good citizens of New Orleans are reaping what the "welfare state" sowed.

And so it goes....

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    New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? | 31 comments (31 topical)
    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    A good counterpoint to this can be found here.
    How ironic that the Superdome became a house of horrors for the dispossessed for five grueling days. Most of the African Americans who were herded into the Superdome came from the infamous New Orleans projects and are descendents of those evicted from their neat little homes in the working-class district that was seized and bulldozed to build -- with public funds -- the Superdome. Their cemetery was also destroyed
    The welfare state IS the problem allright...the corporate welfare state that is expanding every year.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    I was disgusted this morning at the local Bush Apologist, Bob Franz at WTOL, Toledo's Clear Channel Radio outlet, spoke in glowing admiration of the callous and subliminally racist thesis of the author of this drivel. I couldn't bear to stay tuned to the actual interview once I heard some quotes from the piece. These people have no shame and are so much more concerned with protecting Dear Leader than ever fixing the problems with our society.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    Shorter 'intellectual activist': the needless deaths in NOLA were caused by the welfare state keeping those people alive in the first place.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#4)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    you neglected to mention two other sources of "information" cited: 1. the washington times, otherwise known as the "pravda" of the republican party. 2. the tia daily, edited by.............the same guy. so, his sources are: two republican party mouthpieces, and himself. yeah, very insightful, objective analysis there! lol

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    They run the show. Executive, legislative and judicial. I guess they can say whatever they want.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#6)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:27 PM EST
    I believe the current state of welfare is destructive, but food stamps and rent assistance didn’t put the Gulf Coast in the position it is now. Federally subsidized flood and disaster insurance has helped construct entire communities where no insurer would otherwise underwrite and no lender would back. Not to mention the set asides and tax breaks that has benefited shipping and oil interests throughout the gulf. I understand that these ports and oil wells are vital to the economy. But you know, corporate America is very good at risk management and remediation; they do it elsewhere. Let them pay to build and insure their interests, and that of their employees. Enticing folks to build in disaster prone areas through federal backing doesn’t make sense.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#7)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    Enticing folks to build in disaster prone areas through federal backing doesn’t make sense.
    certainly it does, because you're doing it with other people's money.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    No doubt these "Intellectual Activists" would have also voted to ban Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath because it was communist propaganda. But in the long run, denial cannot change reality.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    you don't think that poverty, broken and fragmented homes, and a do nothing attitude contributed to the destruction down there. let us ignore welfare and focus on the culture created by it. you see the same pathologies in any housing project but, being good leftists all, you ignore it. Sorry all-a government check is not a substitute for a strong family.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    mr charley is so right, a meager gov't check and no training or counseling with it just help perpetuate poverty. Underfunding schools in poor areas helps perpetuate it. cutting college grants and loans helps perpetuate it. But only a complete failure by fema could destroy it. It reminds me of the story of the southern sheriff who buried a black guy up to his neck in a corral with an enraged bull. The bull charges and the black guy, in the only defense possible, strains upward and bites the bull on the 'nads. The sheriff walks over, kicks him in the head and says "fight fair dammit!"

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:29 PM EST
    Obviously, after four decades and five trillion dollars, the so-called "welfare state" has been tremendously successful and both reduced poverty and improved the social fabric. Why do those mean Rethuglicans want to interfere with the Democratic Party's most successful program?

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:29 PM EST
    BMB, but surely you know that if $5 trillion didn't do the job, we should spend 10 trillion.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    BMB, provide links for 5 trillion. Also provide links for how much of that reached the people and wasn't spent on gov't employees (which is called a 'job' not welfare.) Then show how it caused a hurricane and fema failure. College grants and loans are cut and there is less funding and more unfunded mandates for k-12. In FY 2003 there was about $86B spent on corp welfare. Resulting in a net loss of jobs and income. They spent $35 Billion for Food Stamps, $12 Billion for Child Nutrition Programs You also need to define 'welfare.' Are you including medicaid and social security? AFDC and food stamps only? Abstinence programs? Education and training and employment and social services are about 4% of the FY2006 budget. By comparison, the interest on the biggest defecit in history (inherited from the biggest surplus in history) was 7%.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    underfunding-you mean like the underfunded schools in DC that spend 12k per student for failure year after year. the story can be repeated for any urban area. what is the explanation for your ignorance?/that noted white racist, bill cosby, gets it-why can't you? money can't substitute for a family.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Now Sailor, that's not fair to BMB. ;) It's clear from its' posts that it only deals with Soudbites, not details. I'd hazard a guess that like the admin. it carries water for, it doesn't do "nuance".

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Aha. Now I see why I don't get where charley is coming from. He's so far is Bizarro world he believes Bill Cosby is white. Oy.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Corruption, greed, abuse of power and cronyism and apathy on part of all has contributed to this disaster. I am ashamed of my Government and especially the President's response to the images of elderly and babies dying in New Orleans. What if one of those ladies was your mother. What if one of those babies was your child. Regardless of race or how rich or poor a person this is not only "unacceptable", this is criminal. I have no confidence in a federal government who abandons its people. What happened to the Rule of Law? Those who create, enforce and judge the law are required to follow the law themselves. Why did the Commander and Chief not call in the U.S. Marines? What ever happened to accountability. Harry Truman took responsibility, he said "The Buck Stops Here" Bush says "Everyone is playing the blame game" I don't see any leadership. Awesome power requires awesome responsibility . Fixing all the blame on local government (and they must also be made accountable for their part) is irresponsible because no local government is safe if they are always liable. Does anyone in Federal government have any courage to level with the American people. If politicians can send young people to fight and die in a hell like Falluja, why do they not have the courage to tell the truth, even if it means losing their job, or power or whatever. Anything less is a betrayal and proves that our leaders are unfit for command. I don't think this country can handle anymore of this. How many times does this administration have to fail. How many more people have to die? 9/11 was a traumatic intel failure 3000 dead. Iraq is a traumatic intel failure 2000 U.S. 20000+ innocent Iraqi dead and a costly failed policy. The Bush legacy is death and destruction. Are you going to wait until the Bush Horror show comes to your town? It is the Civic duty of all Americans to not request but demand that there be an independent commission that can investigate the leadership of all three branches of Federal Government. I believe the Judicial Leadership shows a terrible lack of judgment if they do not express their "disappointment". I guess we are not important enough to rate their attention. We dishonor all those who have suffered or lost their lives if we do not hold our Government accountable. We are all to blame because we have such low standards for the people whom we trust to protect our families. We don't need fake Patriotism, we need people who place their country ahead of their own selfish desires. Look around, most people aren't even thinking critically. The people who are not saying anything or are asking the wrong questions are part of the problem as well. We let our worst citizens be our most powerful leaders.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    The problem with the Welfare State is that it encourages people to depend on government. Is it a shock that the creators of the IRS, Post Office, Social Security, and AMTRAK can't save you from a CAT 5 hurricane?

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Adept, now that'sfunny! mr charlie, provide links.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    rezfox writes:
    It is the Civic duty of all Americans to not request but demand that there be an independent commission that can investigate the leadership of all three branches of Federal Government.
    Did you just forget the screwups by the state and locals, or did you just decide to leave'em out? et al - I think this from "Tribes" at Eject!Eject!Eject! pretty well sums it up:
    I believe that the human animal – the raw material of our physical bodies – is essentially interchangeable. By this I mean that I could take the children of Fallujah and turn them all into Astronauts, convert Jewish babies into fanatical, mass-murdering SS guards, and shake a generation of the poorest Voodoo-worshippers in Haiti into a cadre of top-flight nuclear physicists, chemical engineers and computer scientists. Race has nothing to do with this – precisely nothing. The mobs of murdering Hutus and swarms of slaughtering Serbs are as different racially as it is possible to be, and they are cut from precisely the same cloth. I know this is so because there have been murdering scumbags of every stripe and color in the long history of the human race – which is depressing – and that these animals, at any given time, represent only a small percentage of the majority of people, also of every stripe and color – which is not. There is no corner on virtue, and no outpost of depravity. Human hearts are indistinguishable and interchangeable. Anyone who claims otherwise is, without further argument or statements necessary, a complete God-damned idiot.


    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#21)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Jim, How about we agree that no one did a good job?

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    the mayor told people to evacuate and asked for help, the gov declared an emergency and asked for help, bush declared an emergency and didn't send help until he was off vacation. fema said there wasn't any flooding, at the same time it was being shown on CNN. fema didn't know there were folks at the convention ctr, while they were being shown on CNN. bush lied about the levees, bush lied about calling the mayor, bush lied about brownie doing a good job. Once again bush lied and people died.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    The problem with the Welfare State is that it encourages people to depend on government.
    Of course, we should let children starve and old folks die. We should only give tax breaks to the rich and welfare to corporations. BTW, next time you call a cop, drive on a highway, fly in a safe airplane, buy safe food or drugs, want to stop airliners from flying into buildings ... etc, etc, etc.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#24)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Sailor, Well put.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    Sorry all-a government check is not a substitute for a strong family.
    charley...read the quote I posted at the top of the thread. Those people had jobs until they were kicked out of their homes and moved into the projects to make room for the goddamned Superdome which they had to pay for with their taxes! Yes, welfare, more specifically corporate welfare is your villian. Now go fight it.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    sailor writes:
    the mayor told people to evacuate and asked for help, the gov declared an emergency and asked for help, bush declared an emergency and didn't send help until he was off vacation.
    You know, waiting until less than 24 hours before a Cat 4 hits the area to declare a mandatory evacuation is postively gonna create a failure and people killed. Roger - I would say that this shows us that when you get a city who doesn't follow the plan and a state that is screwed up, no matter what else is done, it's going to be screwed up. And yes, I'm sure FEMA did some dumb things like sending back water tankers, etc. But that pales against not letting emergancy medical equipment in because of a dispute over what it could do, and it pales against not letting the Red Cross go in becuse you are waiting for the Feds. My thoughts? Take it all away from the state and local and turn it over to the Feds. That way we have no petty bickering over what can be done, and we have a very clear command and control.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    Ernie writes:
    Those people had jobs until they were kicked out of their homes and moved into the projects to make room for the goddamned Superdome
    Can you tell us how all of the people who had their property siezed also lost their jobs? And can you tell us that the dome brought no jobs into the city? And can you tell us what portion of the siezed property was owned by the resident vs by a distant landlord? Ernie, I'm very much against out of control "urban renewal," but you need to state some facts to go with the rant. If you can, that is.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    First of all, the $5 trillion figure is easily found. It's at heritage.org, I'll let you exercise your google skills. As far as the effect of the welfare state, has anyone ever dug a backwoods toilet? I'll bet that if every person in the Superdome had been a Boy Scout or a Girl Scout there wouldn't be a discussion of whether to tear the place down or not. I mean seriously: you don't defecate or urinate where you sleep. That's just basic common sense. Yet, that's apparently what those in the Superdome did, including feces on the bridge and urine - and probably feces as well - inside the Superdome. "Liberalism" has made millions of people dependent on the government rather than being able to be responsible for themselves. I predict that when this is over it will have the very positive side affect of completely discrediting a large part of "liberal" "thought".

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#29)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    “Of course, we should let children starve and old folks die.”
    It’s always a fantastic reduction to the calamitous; if it were only starving children and neglected old folks. But it’s not; that’s a drop in the ocean.

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#30)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:32 PM EST
    My thoughts? Take it all away from the state and local and turn it over to the Feds. That way we have no petty bickering over what can be done, and we have a very clear command and control.
    That's FEMA...Federal Emergency Management Agency... Their job is to be ready for Emergencies such as this. But no matter who is at fault, they obviously were not ready. By the way...BIIILL COSBEEEE IIISSSSSSSS white, isnt he?

    Re: New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:33 PM EST
    sheesh, I quote .gov, you know the folks who MAKE the budget and others quote "heritage.org"!? In addition to not being able to research for yourselves, you wrongwingers can't even think for yourselves! You notice how all the dittoheads came out in force on this one? Looks like the great rw echomachine is worried about their american idle;-)

    New Orleans Chaos Caused by "Welfare State"? | 31 comments (31 topical)