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Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 12:09:58 PM EST
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by TChris

The vote to ratify Iraq's draft constitution will be audited in light of reports of fraud and suspicious numbers of ballots cast.

Iraq's electoral commission said Monday it intended to audit "unusually high" numbers in results coming from most provinces in the country's landmark referendum on the draft constitution.

...

The electoral commission's statement came as Sunni Arab lawmaker Meshaan al-Jubouri claimed fraud had occurred in Saturday's election -- including instances of voting in hotly contested regions by pro-constitution Shiites from other areas -- repeating earlier comments made by other Sunni officials over the weekend.

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    • Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:04 PM EST
    Everything regarding the US and Iraq is fraud. Billmon lends some humor to the latest fraud which may not be so far from the truth:
    Election officials examining the ballot boxes said they were particularly baffled by the presence of hundreds of thousands of "yes" votes apparently cast by Republican voters in Ohio and Florida.
    billmon

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:04 PM EST
    The best democracy that can be bought has been violently exported to them. What a shining example to the rest of the world.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#3)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:04 PM EST
    Voter fraud in Iraq? NOOOOO....you dont say

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#4)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    According to the NY Times, as many as "99 percent of the voters were reported to have cast ballots in favor of Iraq's new constitution" in some of the provinces. This is truly amazing. It is almost statistically impossible to get a 99 percent vote. As Juan Cole points out, the "Iraqi government so feared a defeat there that they over-did the ballot stuffing." If elections are a fraud, then there is only one alternative to redressing grievances. The insurgency will continue. More Americans will be killed. Now that we are no longer fighting for democracy, that leaves us with only one reason for being in Iraq, to avoid the embarassment of Bush and the Republicans losing a war.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#5)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    Gosh, remember how it used to be "evidence of tyranny" when Saddam got 99 percent of the vote?

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    Incipiant democracy in Iraq and that's a bad thing? Saddam won 100% of the vote and no one audited him. This seems like a bit of an improvement for the Iraqi people, a blow to the terrorists that seem to enjoy killing innocent people, a bit of disappointment to those who have opposed the war right along and make the Bushies look a tiny bit better. But face it those days of 'milk and honey' under Saddam are over and democracy is a messy business. Get over it and wish the Iraqis well.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    "Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq"
    ...and in other Breaking News....
    "Dog Bites Man"
    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    char-If you are asking about Dr.Cole he has never been in Iraq. He writes about his Mid-East experience here. In terms of having spent time in Iraq he says this:
    I have never attempted to hide my lack of experience in Iraq. But I've lived all around it and hung out with expatriates in Dearborn, and have done a lot of work on its history.
    This interview with Tom Engelhardt is a good summation for his views on the current state of the Iraq now.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#9)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    Where does this meme that democracy is "messy" come from? What's "messy" about it? It's pretty straightforward, it seems to me. People rule. Stuffing ballot boxes is cheating, not democracy. There is no reason to "get over it", quite the contrary. I doubt the Sunnis will "get over it". Foisting a constitution on Iraqis by trickery is not "wishing them well".

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#10)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    Its all meaningless. The Sunnis are buying in. Charley should get a clue. Not all Sunnis were for Saddam. But all most all are against being marginalized and ending up with nothing. The consitution is a joke with more drap doors and non-specific clauses rendering it without much substance. Bush has opened the gates of hell and now thinks that voting on something is democracy. There can be democracy without a clear commitment from all parties to cooperate. Not going to happen. The Kurds want their own little kingdom as do most of the Shias. The Sunnis are left out in the cold and the consitution had no real protection for them. A politcal process without cooperation between all parties is not happening. The insurgency will continue. The vote is just another in the long line of events that have been staged to make us think that there is progress and success is around the corner. As with all the other events, this will not make things better, and as most experts have argued will likely make things worse.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#11)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    arrgh should know better than to try a squeeze in a post between laundry, kids homework etc. Sunnis not buying in. Constitution has many trap doors. There cant be a democracy... I better get some sleep :-)

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    I can't imagine why democracy hasn't taken over in Iraq in two years. I mean, when the USA decided to move towards democracy, it happened quickly. Obvious (I hope) sarcasm. Will democracy work in Iraq? Maybe, maybe not. Will it be a "messy", violent, and drawn-out process? Likely, if history is worth anything. Is the possibility that democracy could have a positive effect on Iraq in the long run, contribute toward a better relationship with the West, tend to make American way of life more secure, and possibly spread to other nearby regions, quelling Islamic fundamentalism, worth the sacrifices being made by our troops, government, economy, and civilians? I hope so. I would rather have hope than slander our country, government, and military when something positive in the path towards democracy occurs, like an election. Honestly, if we have accusations of voter fraud in the US, is it suprising, if not expected, in Iraq's first vote? To support a democracy in Iraq, a person has to be prepared to look at a long term picture. Expecting a flawless transition from tyranny to democracy in that region of the world is foolish. You either support long-term presence in Iraq in the hope that democracy takes hold (this takes things like "resolve", "committment", and "death"), or you support pulling out and chancing its future (things like "cut-and-run", "finish the job", and "failure" come to mind), which I cannot imagine would be very bright under that scenario.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    shorter charley: fraudulent elections aren't a bad thing as long as they produce the right results.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    John H - I wonder if you, or Juan Cole, have considered that the NYT might be wrong? et al - Something good happened in Iraq. So you all line up and complain and snipe.... Gesh. You are as transparent as a piece of glass.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    Well, we now have it on good authority from Whizzy. There could not have been any irregularities in the vote, and everyone is wrong except him. Thanks for straightening us out on this, bud. TTFN

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#16)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    When I was in Dubai in 1999, my unit ran into some Iraqi citizens that told us about how their elections went with SH as pres. They said most people didnt show up to the poles and those who did voted because they were in a position of political influence that made them vote and they had to vote in favor of SH or risk being killed. Then.....they stuffed the boxes or whatever to make absolutely sure SH would win. The ordinary citizen usually didnt vote at all and if they did, they voted for SH due to intimidation. I would imagine that the same thing has happened this time.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    Wow, nothing all weekend on the election in Iraq. Only when a voter fraud story appears does Talkleft post about it. What side are you on?

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    The Sunni's resistance will be on the warpath for quite a long time while Bush spins on about Iraqi progress.
    Even without a hint of fraud, the new constitution is provocation enough. It probably reduces the Sunni Arab share of national petroleum resources to 5 or 10 percent...
    Juan Cole

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    PPJ thinks that the vote was good...talk about the ends justifying the means... Even if the vote was legit in the disputed provinces, at the very best, it means millions of Sunnis have become instantly disenfranchised, and their resentment and anger (and fear about the future under the Shi'ite thumb) will make things better, PPJ? If the Sunnis had been able to vote down the Con. legitimately, they would have forced the Shi'ites and Kurds back to the table to bargain in good faith. Now, with the legitimacy in doubt but with the vote all but ratified (as if the Shi'ite-dominated gov't is going to call itself crooked), you can look forward to more snarking at the left and more leftie "sniping" as the country slides further in civil war. Yeah, a "Good Thing" happened, PPJ... Too bad it wasn't you enlisting to help out your fellow chicken-hawks...

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    Edgey - Doing your typical trick of misquoting. I didn't say there were none, I just said the election is a good thing. Are you against the Iraqi people establishing their own government? I think probably not, but in reality you don't care. You just want to attack the war, and Bush. How does it feel to be always against everything? Jackal - The Sunni will now have to accept the fact that, as a minority, they can't rule. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. BTW - I did 10 years in Naval Aviation in service to my country. How about you, LJ? Or are you too precious to serve, Darkly - Frankly, I don't care what he linked to. His conclusions are always known in advance.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#22)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    PPJ, Well, if you want other sources. MSNBC Iraq ballots checked after fraud allegations CBS News Iraq Vote Count, Query Continue USA Today Iraq election commission checking ballots I could go on and on. Now its your turn. How about providing some articles demonstrating that there were no voting irregulaties.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    PPJ-the apt analogy would be the British controlling our 'democratic' process by writing our constitution and making sure that the votes for it came our favorable to English interests, while the Revolutionary war was taking place.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    Much ado about nothing; merely the latest attempt to legitimize the illegitimate. Once Uncle Sam, and his poodle, John Bull, slither back home, this worthless document will be shredded anyway, so why worry? Besides, does anyone honestly expect the thing to be honored!!?? Please! And, by then, there probably won't be a unitary Iraqi state, but three little states ready to precipitate a bigger and wider war.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    Darkly - Changed?
    Sometimes enjoyable to read, always suspect as to facts, motive and bias
    Frankly, I don't care what he linked to. His conclusions are always known in advance.
    Huh?? Let me see. "known in advance.." See "motives and bias." Are you ill? Your attacks have decreassed significantly in quality over the past few days. I mean, you now just attack to attack, even when you don't really disagree with my point.

    Re: Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    Squeaky - Nice straw horse. Given that we had about 800 years of increasingly democratic rule, a reformed church/religion and citizens who who were well eductated, we didn't need any help. The countries and peoples of the ME cannot say the above. They need help. ut tell us. Why do you so object to us trying to introduce democcracy into Iraq, and the ME? I think you don't care about the policy, or the strategy. I think you care only about attacking Bush. Could you tell us what he did to you? John H - You may expand the list. My comment was that the "fraud" was "alleged." Kinda like OHIO, HUH???

    Voter Fraud Suspected in Iraq | 25 comments (25 topical)