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Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program

A new Time poll shows 79% support a guest worker program while only 47% support the Republican House bill.

There's also this discouraging news:

A substantial majority, 75%, say they should not be allowed to have government services, such as health care or food stamps, and 69% say they shouldn't be able to get a driver's license. A slight majority, 51%, think public schools ought to be off-limits.

And this encouraging news: Bush's favorable rating has sunk to 37%, it's lowest level yet.

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    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#1)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 12:07:57 PM EST
    So in other words we want slave labor. Welcome to Rome.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 12:40:20 PM EST
    Che, Exactly. We want their cheap labor AND THAT IS ALL. They should remain uneducated, without medical care. Blessed are the meek, eh?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#3)
    by glanton on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 12:44:40 PM EST
    What else could we have expected from this public? The Legacy of Conquest continues.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#4)
    by rigel on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 12:55:15 PM EST
    It should also be noted that the romans originally allowed torture (quaestio) only for slaves (and even back then the veracity of the information gleaned through these techniques was questionable). then came the expansion of both offenses and types of imperial subjects that the techniques could be applied to legally. bad craziness. i'm moving to NZ.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#5)
    by dead dancer on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 12:56:08 PM EST
    "One nation under God" ...

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 12:59:44 PM EST
    Please note that the poll consisted of two questions--expelled from the country or allowed to work. Also, consider that the questions were only asked of border-state residents where the latino population is highest.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 01:03:43 PM EST
    Then where did the numbers about percentage who think they should be denied government services, public education, etc., come from? Polls CAN be enlightening in an "ugly truth" sense as much as they can be manipulated to do the opposite.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 01:11:47 PM EST
    It really does not matter what happens with the immigration issue. The elected officals will somehow find a way to screw it up.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 01:24:12 PM EST
    Still confused about the "illegal" part, eh? Suppose it's only natural; the entire federal govt is baffled by that as well.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 01:33:23 PM EST
    What 79 percent is that the drug dealers in mexico city? if you love mexico, "ok", in fact good, but if you love mexico live in mexico and make it a good place to live for your people. sad world the race and civil war is coming. bin laden will win with the help of fools and drug dealers of mexico and in the white house.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 02:36:59 PM EST
    JR, bush want's to import slave labor because Americans won't do those jobs for those wages. What exactly is your point? I understand 'illegal', but what do you have to say about bush exporting American's jobs, and trying to fill them in with cheaper imported labor?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#13)
    by jen on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 03:25:06 PM EST
    so that means the guest workers can work here, get money and since they will use no government resources, they need not pay taxes

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 03:58:47 PM EST
    The guest worker program is simply a way of legalizing the situation. That way, the govt. is not obligated to do anything about it. It's like putting a bandage on an open fracture.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 01, 2006 at 04:34:59 PM EST
    So the wacks still think they can work all day and just power them down and store 'em in a garage at night. Yeah, that'll work. No schools or vocational training will be cheaper than prison. That's why they're wacks.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 07:26:58 AM EST
    charlie - Did you read the link?
    Americans polled by TIME magazine show strong support for a guest-worker program and a process for undocumented workers to become citizens, but they take a tough stance on securing the borders. And most do not want illegal immigrants to have access to health care, public education or driver's licenses
    Now, let's break this down a bit. 1. Guest workers okay. 2. To be a guest worker you must apply, be approved. You are therefore in the country legally. 3. Poll questions refer to "illegal immigrants." (Also known as illegal aliens.) So what the poll shows is that the issue is "illegal." If you are in the country illegal, no school, no government services, no driver's license, etc. et al - The post also claims that Bush has sunk to a new low, 37%. But wait!! Just a week or so ago, you folks were claiming that Bush had sunk to 34%, based on what I said as an inaccurate poll. Which is it? Were you right then, and Bush as improved to 37%? Or are you right now, and wrong then?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#17)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 08:44:01 AM EST
    Guest worker = slave labor. Jen, you nailed it. Are we going to tax these people for services they will be denied?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 01:12:01 PM EST
    Che - I'll ask you the same question I asked charlie. Did you read the Time article? If so, didn't you note that the denial of services were for illegal immigranrs, not guest works?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 01:34:24 PM EST
    ppj - I read the article and its far from clear whether the poll results on who should be denied services refers to illegals only or to illegals and quest workers. Considering the fact that amputee veterans have trouble squeezing essential services from your coward- in-chief, I imagine the ultimate result will be a denial of services for registered workers.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 01:52:17 PM EST
    You'll have to ask shrub and the business community, Jim. He's the one selling your sorry butt out. They just want cheap labor and to get over 40 percent of the Hispanic Vote. They figure if they go your way, it's Pete Wilson and California on a National Level and the repos will be lucky to top 25 percent of the Hispanic Vote. Then they're really gonna have to deliver the Deliverance Vote. I'm just enjoyin' the show. As for the polls, looks like he's inchin' down a bit more this week, Jim. Even the thumb on the scale nitwits at Rasmussen are down to 40 percent and they're usually 43 or so when everyone else is averaging in the mid-30s. One thing's for sure, they ain't trendin' upward. The Andy Card/Bolton thing just didn't fool 'em. That's a shame. Always a pleasure.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 02:00:41 PM EST
    Posted by James Robertson April 1, 2006 02:24 PM
    Still confused about the "illegal" part, eh? Suppose it's only natural; the entire federal govt is baffled by that as well.
    And who's runnin' all 3 branches of the Federal Government these days, James? That's what I thought. Ya got any more brick walls ya wanna run head first into?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 06:13:28 PM EST
    Jondee - If you can't understand:
    And most do not want illegal immigrants to have access to health care, public education or driver's licens
    then I have no hope for you. Note that it doesn't even mention guest workers. Frankly, I don't believe you. You're smarter than that. charlie - So if 37% is down, then the 34% number, as I stated, was wrong. You do know that 37% is more than 34%, right?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 07:31:58 PM EST
    Frankly, I don't believe you. You're smarter than that.
    Frankly, I don't give a damn. You're not.
    charlie - So if 37% is down, then the 34% number, as I stated, was wrong.
    Again, that's between you and Time Magazine. When do we eat?
    You do know that 37% is more than 34%, right?
    You do realize that you've been reduced to arguing whether shrub has a 37 percent approval figure or a 34 percent approval record? You do realize that I find this enormously entertaining? Always a pleasure.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 07:58:02 PM EST
    charlie - Nice for you to answer for Jondee. And if want to argue that the Time's poll says that Americans don't want guest works to have social services, despite what the article says in simple English and black and white, go ahead and make yourself look stupid. Read, charlie. Read. It will help you not embarass yourself. You do realize that, once again, the numbers have been proven wrong, despite all the attempts you made to have us believe that the poll was correct. That's the issue, charlie. You were wrong, again. Your 0 for 2. At least that midget for the St Louis Browns got a walk.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 08:15:00 PM EST
    Wrong about what, Jim? For the 479 kazillionth time, I don't have to take a position on this immigration business. I'm quite content to sit by and watch you nitwits in the republican party fight tooth and nail over this. In fact, if ya wanna fight to the death, don't hold back on my account. Have at it. Let that fur fly. I'm sure I could get PETA to look the other way while you boys satisfy your primal directives. Chrissie Hynde thinks I'm special. She can get her song back from flush. We'll just drive a busted guitar neck through your hearts when the time is right.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 08:36:41 PM EST
    ppj - The article isnt clear because it refers to Americans being in favor of illegals becoming quest workers and then goes back to talking about "illegals" in a more generic sense when it talks about Americans being opposed to them recieving other services. Ill have to see a poll which specifically adresses the issue of quest workers recieving services before Im convinced that the people polled are making a distinction beyween "illegals" and guest workers.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#27)
    by glanton on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 08:37:26 PM EST
    For the 479 kazillionth time, I don't have to take a position on this immigration business. I'm quite content to sit by and watch you nitwits in the republican party fight tooth and nail over this.
    Hear, hear! It's like the spectacle pay-per-view professional wrestling offers, when two 'bad guys' turn on each other. In this red corner.... The Corporate Bloodsucker! In the other red corner... The Exploited Bigot! Let's get ready to rummmmmmmble!

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 08:40:53 PM EST
    ppj - "The numbers have been proven wrong." Your evidence please.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 09:08:24 PM EST
    Jondee - Puleaseeeee. A small bit of common sense. 1. When the illegals become guest workers, they are no longer illegal. Think of it as in getting married. Once you are married, you are no longer single. 2. Those that remain illegal remain illegal. And Americans don't want them getting the benefits. The article's first paragraph spells it out so clear. You must be pulling old PPJ's leg. Jondee - Try reading this post, in which we are told that Bush's popularity has declined to a new low of 37%. This only weeks after a poll said he was at 34%. So obviously, if I believe the post's info, the previous numbers were wrong. And, if I believe previous numbers, the new numbers are wrong. charlie - I love it when you have trapped yourself. Your attempt at dancing is soooooo funny to watch. BTW - The poll numbers on Bush had nothing to do with immigration. Link to post.>/a>

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#30)
    by glanton on Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 09:12:21 PM EST
    Hard to see how "I'm not taking a position" constitutes "trapping yourself." Seems like what he's saying is, keep the popcorn rolling, it's a delightful show! But then, when your idea of specificity involves the notion that every other post must include some vague tirade against "The Left," maybe not taking a position and trapping yourself really are synonymous. Stay alert, and stay with Fox.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:21:30 AM EST
    Don't confuse our Jim with the facts, Glanton. He's on a roll. I love to watch him argue the significance of whether shrub has a 37 percent approval rating or a 34 percent approval rating. Let him prove that he's Lord of the Dance while standing in quicksand. That's entertainment.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:24:27 AM EST
    glanton - Glad to hear from you. Thought maybe you had wandered off into the great unknown and become lost to man. Enjoyed your snarky defense of charlie. Try doing it when you have read the post and the comments and it might make sense.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:47:07 AM EST
    Trying to make sense of PPJs' posts isn't for the weak-hearted, a weak mind does help, however........... PPJ, the difference of 3% is the margin of error for a well-designed poll, so that two polls which differ by 3% would be considered due to the MOE on a mathematical level, not fluctuations in the support of our Fearless Leader. You would know that if you had studied statistics as I have, which of course is only done by elitist types in this country, not that there is anything wrong with that.......

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:54:47 AM EST
    significance of whether shrub has a 37 percent approval rating or a 34 percent approval rating So 3 outa a hunnert rednecks backslid last week and couldn't remember who they were told to support, huh? Anyone surprised? ;-)

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 07:13:14 AM EST
    Nah, it's all about rovesputin's ability to deliver the deliverance vote.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 07:41:01 AM EST
    Please read this article: In U.S. Immigration Debate, Specter Has It Right It is the most wonderful article I have found in the immigration debate.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 07:42:38 AM EST
    Please read this article: In U.S. Immigration Debate, Specter Has It Right It is the most wonderful article I have found in the immigration debate.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:24:24 AM EST
    It is a very good article, dressking, makes a lot of sense, and presents a couple of very clear choices:
    ...round up all of the illegal residents today and ship them home, crack down hard at the borders, and promise to do both again and again forever. ...find a way to ease the path toward citizenship for current residents, establish generous rules for entry into the U.S., and be willing to load anyone who doesn't follow those rules into a bus and ship them home. The Frist approach resembles neither. The Specter approach resembles the latter, and is the far better policy. ...America will be shooting itself in the foot if Specter loses this battle.


    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:31:34 AM EST
    Let's see. Elian Gonzales X 12 million. Yeah, that'll work.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:47:15 AM EST
    Guest worker program is a nice way of saying second class citizen. Give us your labor, but don't expect equal rights and equal pay with that. Your not as good or deserving because you had the misfortune of being born below a certain lattitude. The "kick the dog" anti-immigrant vitriol is getting out of hand. Our leaders love it...another smokescreen as they laugh on the way to the bank. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all....Ha! That mantra was repealed sometime in the late 20th century. Now we are most certainly divided, with liberty and justice for a select few. Shame.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:04:33 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - I never even mentioned any of that, just that the comment in the post, and for that matter in various other media and blogs, was that Bush has reached a new low. Now that isn't true unless the previous poll was wrong, or unless you specify the variation.... Pardon me for laughing.. Dark Avenger's new motto. "I'm right if the margin of error is what I want it to be." kdog - That comes from the Pledge of Allegiance. Perhaps they burned it when they burned the flag. And a Guest Worker would merely be a person with a Visa. No more rights. No fewer rights.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#42)
    by Peaches on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:19:54 AM EST
    I never even mentioned any of that, just that the comment in the post, and for that matter in various other media and blogs, was that Bush has reached a new low. Now that isn't true unless the previous poll was wrong, or unless you specify the variation.... Pardon me for laughing..
    It doesn't get any better than this. ppj trying taking pride in the fact that someone was wrong about Bush being at a new low instead of the old low. It is the rest of us who are laughing, Old man.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:27:07 AM EST
    It doesn't get any better than this... It is the rest of us who are laughing, Old man. No kidding. Some of the "guest workers" come to pick fruit, which is useful. Not to pick nits, which is useless.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:42:29 AM EST
    I would support a guest worker program that offered most of the same rights and priveledges as citizen workers except for a few things. First, they need to initiate the process in their own country. Second, I don't think seasonal (farm, etc.) workers should get any unemployment payments in excess of the amounts they paid in through taxes.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#45)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:53:42 AM EST
    Sarc: First, they need to initiate the process in their own country Makes sense. I think that's generally a normal requirement for immigration or any visa applicatition in most countries isn't it? I don't think seasonal (farm, etc.) workers should get any unemployment payments in excess of the amounts they paid in through taxes. Why not? Is their work any less valuable or productive than anyone elses?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:55:41 AM EST
    perhaps just black people should be polled as black males will be in direct competition with these illegals. While I am sure the Republican elites don't care about the black vote as they get none of it, are the Democrats that arrogant that they would throw them under a bus and still get the 90+ numbers they always get. or, are the Dems screwing one minority to get the votes of another whose numbers are growing?

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:05:49 AM EST
    Why not? Is their work any less valuable or productive than anyone elses?
    Nope. I think if the seasonal job they got their visa for ends, they should be able to withdraw the unemployment they paid in their taxes until they either find another job, and/or if they can't find another job, and their unemplyoyment runs out, they should go back home until the next season. Many (perhaps most?) of the seasonal laborers do this (go back and forth) already anyway.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:18:21 AM EST
    Sarc, OK, I think I see where you're going, and I tend to agree. It would ensure that they deliver economic value equal to or greater than they would be taking out.

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:26:13 AM EST
    edger, we're agreeing on something?!

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#50)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:28:31 AM EST
    We do quite often Sarc... Got a problem with that? ;-)

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:29:06 AM EST
    Now that isn't true unless the previous poll was wrong, or unless you specify the variation.... Pardon me for laughing Yes, we won't tell the docs at the VA that you've gone off your meds again. "I'm right if the margin of error is what I want it to be." Since you given us no data to show that my statement about the M of E of either poll is wrong,(and if it were lower, there still could be overlap, and only a poll taken of a much bigger sample size would have a M of E of 1.5% or less, when an overlap of the two polls would be mathematically impossible) and advertised your ignorance by using the word variation, I guess you'll be needing some more whine from charlie, and I'll give you a couple of slices of Velveeta straight from the Tulare, CA plant for your gustatory enjoyment. TTFN

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:47:10 AM EST
    edger, nope!

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:51:45 AM EST
    Sarc, Whew! Yoy had me worried there for a second. ;-)

    Re: Poll: 79% Support Guest Worker Program (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:59:07 AM EST
    Krugman makes a very good point:
        Imagine, for a moment, a future in which America becomes like Kuwait or Dubai, a country where a large fraction of the work force consists of illegal immigrants or foreigners on temporary visas - and neither group has the right to vote. Surely this would be a betrayal of our democratic ideals, of government of the people, by the people. Moreover, a political system in which many workers don't count is likely to ignore workers' interests: it's likely to have a weak social safety net and to spend too little on services like health care and education.
    worth reading the whole thing. Truth Out