home

Bush Dances on Immigration Policy

By TChris, Section Other Politics
Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:02:22 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

by TChris

The president finally made a truthful statement:

"Massive deportation of the people here is unrealistic. It's just not going to work. You can hear people out there hollering it's going to work. It's not going to work."

Those who are "hollering" at politicians to round up and deport every undocumented worker are part of the president's base. Not surprisingly, the president delivered these remarks to a different part of his base: the business community that depends on undocumented workers. Will the "foreigners go home" crowd feel abandoned by their president?

Even as the administration has been putting on a show of getting tough with employers who hire undocumented workers, President Bush expressed sympathy for employers who are "fooled" by fake social security cards. If that's the president's attitude, how widespread or effective are those enforcement efforts likely to be?

< Tuesday Open Thread | Conned >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Bush Dances on Immigration Policy | 48 comments (48 topical)
    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:34:48 AM EST
    Unfortunately for his base, Bush's brother is married to a hispanic woman. Funny how studied personal experience CAN lead to informed opinion and rationality even in the least self-aware and intellectual among us. That massive deportations aren't going to happen is probably the first thing I've agreed with Dubya on in, well, I can't remember when. We're fellow humans, after all. Amazing. Now if the guy could just get a little more of this in his war-mind. Alright, now I'm dreaming, but still...

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:36:06 AM EST
    And not that I agree with any other aspect of Bush immigration/economic policy, to be sure, just that I actually heard something out of his mouth that I agreed with.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#3)
    by desertswine on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:40:06 AM EST
    The president finally made a truthful statement
    Well if he did it must have been by accident.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:49:40 AM EST
    It's funny, everyone is down on the illegal aliens when they're just trying to work and support their families. Why isn't any pointing finger at the big corporation scum that are hiring them? The reason we don't have sweat shops filled with child labor anymore isn't because we got tough on kids, it's because we cracked down on the businesses that were exploiting them. Start cracking down on American Businesses that are breaking the law by hiring them and most of the illegal aliens will go home on their own. Problem is, the Republicans and the Democrats don't want to do anything to piss off their rich friends.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:53:47 AM EST
    Well said by GDub. Attempting to round up 10+ million is morally wrong in my opinion...you don't people in chains and cages over immigration laws. Not to mention totally impossible absent a totalitarian police state.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#6)
    by Punchy on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:50:44 AM EST
    Tom Tancredo just read those comments and nearly had a heart attack. Actually, he had someone read the comments to him because the white hood he was wearing made it difficult to make out the words.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 11:28:36 AM EST
    Easy for you to say. Isn't it. You don't live in the San Fernando Valley,Ca. Try looking it up sometimes.So you agree with DubW. What Hypocrites. Why would we he say something else in the first place. This is BS.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#8)
    by Johnny on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 11:31:53 AM EST
    Good points GUNSHY. I think we all need to remember that businesses, historically, will not regulate themselves with regards to human rights and environmental issues. They will not govern themselves with regards to immigration, either.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 11:36:14 AM EST
    Attempting to round up 10+ million is morally wrong in my opinion...you don't people in chains and cages over immigration laws. Not to mention totally impossible absent a totalitarian police state.
    Also, how are we going to pay for it?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 11:46:38 AM EST
    Again Does anyone here live in area where there is a very large population of illegal immigrants. How would you round them up why does it matter whoever is here illegally is taking away from US People who are native. Born and Raised Here. Why should we suffer because you agree with that canker sore Bush on one issue. You should know better than that how can anyone agree with a nut job like Bush. Oh this one time don't cut it.Truly Amazing Bleeding Liberals I Presume.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:07:12 PM EST
    Again Does anyone here live in area where there is a very large population of illegal immigrants
    I live in an hispanic majority/white minority community. As to someones legality...I never thought to ask, to me they are just neighbors, just people. I'd assume a good chunk are illegal. Honestly, I don't see what they are "taking away from me". What I do see is my neighbors busting their butt to get by, just like the rest of the working class, wherever they may be born.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:13:58 PM EST
    Why even have border security? Illegal immigration is such a good thing, I think we should completely open the borders up. Also, all illegal aliens currently in-country should get a $1,000 check. Or...not. BTW Dadler "unfortunately for his base..." - are you so close minded to believe Republicans are racist? I hear more hate speech on this site than any other blog I have visited, and I would "guess" most posters are very liberal here. I feel sorry for you and your ignorance.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:22:15 PM EST
    Illegal immigration is such a good thing, I think we should completely open the borders up.
    That makes as much sense as totally closing the border and putting 10 million people in chains.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:27:53 PM EST
    Hannity, You missed my political/satirical, as well as personal point. By "unfortunately for his base", I mean his personal family experience results in a Bush political position much to his base's disappointment. Sorry your misreading caused you such distress. Suffice it to say, I'm secure in the knowledge that -- having lived with more than 50 different people of all races and creeds, having an interracial family, having spent a good portion of my adolescence immersed in the life of the religious Republican right -- my "ignorance" is the product of a great deal of enlightening personal experience.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:38:41 PM EST
    Posted by Furillo April 25, 2006 12:46 PM Again Does anyone here live in area where there is a very large population of illegal immigrants. How would you round them up why does it matter whoever is here illegally is taking away from US People who are native. Born and Raised Here. Why should we suffer because you agree with that canker sore Bush on one issue. You should know better than that how can anyone agree with a nut job like Bush. Oh this one time don't cut it.Truly Amazing Bleeding Liberals I Presume.
    This is from my local paper- asinine liberalism at its'finest. Why can't PRESCHOOLERS start out learning English? This is what they "are taking away". The illegals are sucking up our tax dollars and destroying our schools. By ANN SANNER Associated Press Writer Published April 23, 2006, 9:52 AM CDT Karen Carlson's battle to keep Waukegan's preschool program running has forced her to visit Spain in a search for bilingual teachers. She has to knock on doors around the city to find places to hold class. She says it's worth "all the time and headaches" if hundreds of at-risk children get a head start at succeeding in school. "I really believe that all the payoffs are there," said Carlson, an associate superintendent for Waukegan public schools. Preschool administrators across the state will get more help if Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposed "Preschool for All" program is approved. He wants to increase preschool spending by $135 million over the next three years, enough to serve an additional 32,000 children. But experts say the money is just the first step. Providers would have to find already scarce classroom space and recruit teachers willing to accept the lower pay and additional duties of caring for 3- and 4-year-olds. Rural programs would have to figure out what to do about transportation for children far from town. Blagojevich aides acknowledge the proposal doesn't address some of those roadblocks. They promise to work with local officials on coming up with answers. According to its many advocates, preschool offers a tremendous boost. Children get 12.5 hours a week where they can learn to count, to identify pictures with words and other skills that will help them succeed in school Studies suggest children who attend preschool are more likely to graduate, stay out of trouble and earn more as adults. Blagojevich argues all children deserve a chance at those advantages. "The opportunity for children to learn during these precious years shouldn't be squandered. It should be embraced," Blagojevich, a Democrat, said in February when he proposed Preschool for All. "We have an obligation to make preschool available." Currently, the statewide program serves about 75,000 at-risk kids -- those whose household income, learning skills and other characteristics suggest they need extra help to succeed in school. Many other children attend private preschools. Between 8,000 and 10,000 children are on waiting lists for the state program. Thousands more children could benefit but aren't even trying to get in. Some preschools lack the space to accept more children or lack the teachers. In other cases, the preschools lack the money to expand -- about $3,000 for each child, said Kay Henderson, early childhood division administrator for the State Board of Education. Blagojevich has increased spending for early education programs by $90 million since taking office three years ago, adding 25,000 at-risk kids to programs, his office said. Now he proposes increasing the state's preschool budget by $135 million over the next three years. Blagojevich wants to start with a $45 million in the budget year that begins July 1. At the end of five years, 190,000 Illinois children -- up from about 130,000 now -- would have access to various preschool programs, including the state program, federal Head Start services and special education, the Blagojevich administration says. "Our plan is that in five years every kid who wants high-quality preschool will have access to state pre-K," Elliot Regenstein, the governor's education adviser, said in an e-mail. That does not mean every Illinois child will enroll in a state-supported preschool. Some parents will continue using private programs and others will simply decide not to send their children to preschool, Regenstein said. Lawmakers generally say they support the governor's preschool goals, but it's not clear how much they will give the program when money is tight and other worthy programs need help. Blagojevich and Democratic legislative leaders are trying to negotiate a budget deal in private meetings. To achieve the governor's goal of enrolling at least 10,000 additional children each year, preschools would need more certified teachers -- at least 250 each year. But many teachers prefer to work in public schools where they can make more money, said Sandy Schaefer, director of child care for the Erie Neighborhood House in Chicago. "There are not enough teachers and they have to be willing to work in nontraditional school settings," Schaefer said. Many providers are offering to train aides who are already working in the classroom. Other school districts are working with universities to recruit teachers. The biggest challenge might be finding educators with specialized skills, Henderson said. Waukegan's preschool program, like others, recruits teachers from Spain because of the difficulties in finding bilingual teachers in Illinois. And classroom space is already at a premium, she said, with providers looking to churches, community centers and other spots to offer preschool. Adding more preschool classes will simply increase demand for spaces. "I'm not seeing an immediate shortage of teachers or available space, but as we roll this out, we are going to constantly have to be on top of available space and teachers," Henderson said. Regenstein acknowledged these issues are a concern and said the administration is working on solutions. But much will depend on "creative thinking locally," he said. Local administrators say they're more than willing to recruit teachers and scrounge for space if it means they can get money to expand their programs. "We would not be able to do any of this without the funding," said Louisa Zink, an administrator for the Waukegan early childhood program. "This has just been a real blessing to our district."

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:48:23 PM EST
    Destroying our schools...lol. I do part ways with my liberal breathren on some issues, bi-lingual education for one. Schools should offer help to kids till they get caught up on English, then go English only, in my opinion. Is that the best you got to demonize these people?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:48:45 PM EST
    Is that reason to chain and cage 10 million people?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:55:26 PM EST
    I am not demonizing them and I happen to blame our politicians for the problem more than I blame the illegals themselves. Yes they are destroying my local schools with the help of NCLB and the teacher's union. The high achieving kids are being dispersed from the magnet schools in an attempt to comply with NCLB. This is a direct result of the low performing illegals. The next step in this process is that the middle class families that might otherwise have moved to our city will not, because the schools are poor. There is also a huge problem with Hispanic gangs and a long list of other social problems. You cannot dismiss the costs of travelling to Spain to recruit teachers for illegals as a minor issue.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:50:03 PM EST
    Yes Narius- you are getting cheap landscaping work because he(or his workers) lives with multiple other families in a single family home in my city. Their extra money goes to Mexico, which hurts the local economy. What do you think happens to the economy of a city populated with low wage workers who send a large portion of their extra money to Mexico?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:50:51 PM EST
    lots of these people are hard working people and they come for the jobs WE are giving them
    Absolutely right. Blame the government, blame the employer...just don't blame the illegal immigrant and put him in chains. He/She is doing what any of us would do. And I'm sure immigrants will be happy to pay taxes like the rest of us, as long as they get the same wages and workplace protections as the rest of us. That's the problem...employers, in order to avoid fair wages and workplace regulations, hire illegals. JRT...I don't deny the social problems, I just disagree that mass deportations or crackdowns on the immigrants themselves will change a thing. I quote our president..."One thing we cannot lose sight of is that we're talking about human beings, decent human beings that needed to be treated with respect." I agree. BTW...when did Bush start making sense and speaking somewhat coherently? "Give me your tired, your poor...I'll piss on 'em" - Lou Reed

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:08:10 PM EST
    Kdog, I have never suggested MASS deportations, but I have suggested that we start by deporting gangbangers. They are not "hardworking" people, they are a cancer. Would you lefties have a problem with deporting gangbangers?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:17:37 PM EST
    charlie..great track...ain't it? I pull that Reed quote out whenever I get to talkin' about immigration. It sums it up so well.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:33:10 PM EST
    Kdog- I don't think we need to wait for a violent crime to deport a known gangbanger. I think any gang activity should be grounds for deportation. Charlie- how is a criticism of importing teachers from Spain to teach preshoolers "sewage"? Can't you just take a position one way or the other? Do all you lefties believe that opinions other than your own are "sewage"? I respect other viewpoints and will gladly clarify and either defend or possibly even CHANGE! my opinion upon hearing coherent opposing viewpoints.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:42:27 PM EST
    I disagree JRT. I cannot support punishing someone for their choice in friends. It's too arbitrary.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:46:19 PM EST
    What value Narius? Your lawn is cut while you watch golf? Yes, of course some value is created, but many of the costs are passed on to the places where these illegals have settled, and they have settled in LARGE numbers, with many families in single family homes.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:50:30 PM EST
    They are not deported for being in a gang they are deported for being here illegally, and it addresses the issue of "we can't deport 12 million people". Start with the gangbangers.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:09:20 PM EST
    I refuse to put people in chains so arbitrarily. Greater tyranny would surely follow.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:50:10 PM EST
    Immigrants have to live near the work. If they are paying rent, they are paying property taxes, which is used for schools and other services...no? Plus sales tax. You guys must be referring to income tax. In order to tax their wages, they must be paid a legal wage in legal working conditions. What's stopping us?...oh yeah, business interests.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#33)
    by rMatey on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 06:38:10 PM EST
    The cheapest way to straighten things out would be to: 1) maximize the fines for employers of the illegals. 2) cut off all welfare and social benefits to all non-citizens. 3) impound all illegally gotten gains made by the illegals while in this country. 4) force the employers and their illegal employees to build the fence.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#34)
    by fafnir on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 07:30:17 PM EST
    I don't agree with mass deportations of illegals, either. We didn't bus them here, and we shouldn't shoulder the additional expense to send them home. But, Bush presents a false choice: Let them stay or round the up for mass deportation. Instead, I prefer the third option of attrition through strict enforcement of employment laws. Without jobs, many illegals -- if not most -- will self-deport home. In fact roughly 165,000 illegals return to their country of origin annually.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 07:38:12 PM EST
    Charlie I have tried to be civil, but I cannot let your ranting go this time. You are, quite simply, an a**hole. Deporting illegal alien gangbangers IS an idea. Apparently you don't like that idea, but it is a valid viewpoint.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#36)
    by Johnny on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 07:50:12 PM EST
    rMatey, don't forget impounding all wealth generated by using illegal labor. It would amoun to billions and billions and billions of dollars...

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 08:17:58 PM EST
    We have the right to deport ANYONE who is here illegally. I am simply suggesting that we start with the gangbangers, who are unquestionably scum. Why don't you read up on MS-13 and let me know what you think of the little sweethearts?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 01:49:21 AM EST
    I could care less if they are hard working. These illegals break the law. Typical liberal response well we can't round up 10 million. Don't you know that is a sign of ignorance to copy someones response. Where is the originality folks. Im dying here in illegal muck.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 06:49:16 AM EST
    Shorter rmatey/fanfir... "Give me your tired, your poor...I'll piss on 'em"

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 07:54:39 AM EST
    These illegals break the law As do the employers who pay the illegals under the table, and (up until now) had their wrists slapped by the current folks who've now discovered belatedly that arresting American citizens who violate our immagration laws might be the 'politically correct' thing to do these days.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 08:36:47 AM EST
    Try to focus Charlie. Do you believe that illegal immigrant gangs have a right to stay here? Save the rants and your oh so clever little quips and answer the question.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 09:05:45 AM EST
    Charlie... Let me get this straight. You wanna arrest, try, sentence and deport 'em before they commit a crime and you wonder why I think your "ideas" are sewage? I know this is hard for you to comprehend, but they already committed a crime by climbing over the fence! And BTW.... a vast majority of the people in this country agree there is indeed an "illegal" immigrant problem and want something done about it. Securing the borders before 12 million more climb over should be step #1 JRT... You are, quite simply, an a**hole LOL...you nailed it there dude. Charlies main purpose here is to call people names & correct their spelling! Most everything in between is incoherent gibberish.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#43)
    by Dadler on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 09:31:28 AM EST
    We want all the benefits of the "global economy" without any of the side effects. When labor is granted equal rights with capital, then maybe we'll start to address the real issue -- 2/3 of the world lives in abject poverty, while the other third (or less) consumes in a wildly wasteful and inhumane manner and benefits economically from the abject poverty of those bottom 2/3. Myself included. And Furillo, I live twenty minutes from Mexico, grew up in Los Angeles, and we sheltered an illegal and her baby in our house for a couple of years when I was a kid. She had no one, her husband had abandoned her and their infant, she had nothing to go back to in El Salvador. Tell me this isn't the "kind" of illegal you were talking about, since I know it isn't. And that was my point. I don't think you know much of the actual people you rage against, but instead let that rage get the better of you.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:30:40 AM EST
    Charlie.... They don't agree on your solution, sport. Either do I. And what solution is that sport? I don't recall ever voicing a 'solution'. There are many issues here and no one solution will fix them all. Or...is it you don't agree we should secure the border? Maybe that bigoted bs flies in freeperville, pal. It don't fly here. You really are an angry fellow aren't you? What bigoted BS are you refering to? The fact (and what you just agreed with) that most people see a problem with this is bigoted? So a majority of US citizens that want the border secured are bigots? Wanting foreigners to respect our laws makes us bigots? Our country should be without borders? C'mon Charlie...quit the oh so witty dribble and at least try to make some sense.... Your posts are full of crap and insults and you never actually address anything, and if you do, you are off base with the original post (like my last one) and even your cheap insult doesn't make sense. Are you the resident insult comic dog here?

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:53:56 PM EST
    Thank you BB

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:13:58 AM EST
    test. bbc here

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:16:41 AM EST
    test bbc here this in bold

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:19:20 AM EST
    test quote Are you the resident insult comic dog here?
    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 06:22:02 AM EST
    try this
    Are you the resident insult comic dog here?
    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:20:04 AM EST
    Name one. Please quote, don't fabricate.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 09:42:17 AM EST
    OK- You're halfway there. Now tell me what you think is ridiculous. Save the insults and rants and stick to the subject.

    Re: Bush Dances on Immigration Policy (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 09:52:42 AM EST
    You might just want to make note of the fact that it's a hell of a lot cheaper to educate them now than incarcerate them later.
    I will have to give you credit for a partial response, but I never said that we should not educate them. I said that we do not need to recruit preschool teachers from Spain. A 3 year old can start right out in English. I also believe that when they have dropped out of school and joined a gang they should be deported. Our local hispanics have a 46% graduation rate.

    Bush Dances on Immigration Policy | 48 comments (48 topical)