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Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Presidential Run

Former mayor Rudy Giuliani campaigned in Iowa today. He said if he thinks he can win, he will run for President in 2008.

It's time to get his history out in the blogosphere. The man is not qualified. People think he is some sort of hero because he didn't fall apart during 9/11. He is not. He was a prosecutor who loved putting people in jail and a Mayor who trounced the downtrodden.

From the Times article:

Former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani said on Monday that he was seriously exploring whether he has "a chance" of winning the presidency in 2008, as he visited politically important Iowa and huddled with state advisers, donors to President Bush and other prominent Republicans.

...."My effort this year will be to help Republicans get elected, and then, quite honestly, as part of it, saying to myself, does it look like I have a chance in 2008? And make that decision after the 2006 election."

Let's review a little of his history. I'll start with a summary of his skeletons, and move on to his divorce woes. (Washington Post, 5/11/2000; Associated Press, 5/19/2000.)

Don't miss Rudi & Judi Forever by Steve Gilliard, one of the best pieces I've read about him.

Then there's his abysmal record on civil liberties, while he claims credit for winning the war on crime in New York -- but the credit was not his, it belonged to Bill Bratton. As one writer put it:

They specifically comment on the Mayor's racism; his attacks on freedom of speech; his habit of ordering his critics arrested; his war on the homeless and the poor; his policy of confiscating and forfeiting private property regardless of due process; his "bunker mentality"; his attacks on media freedom; his notion of issuing hollowpoint bullets to the police; his "work shall make you free" workfare initiative; his Hitler-like obsession with stadium building; his desire to fingerprint and take DNA samples from all newborn children;....

Several 9/11 victims have turned on him as well. Sisyphus Shrugged has more on the negatives to his 9/11 performance.

There's his continued support for Bernie Kerik after his embarrassing appointment and withdrawal as HSA Chief. (See this Newsday article and this Ny Daily News editorial, Rudy and Bernie Go Down in Flames.) One of Rudy Giuliani's last feats as Mayor was to rename the Manhattan Detention Center as the Bernard B. Kerik complex. Bernie, Rudy once said, is the "brother he never had." The NY Daily News even reported that Rudy had "cashed in a chit" to get Kerik the appointment.

Joyce Purnick in the New York Times had this to say about Rudy:

Most of America knows the heroic Rudolph W. Giuliani, celebrated for his masterful leadership after Sept. 11. But before the terrorist attacks, Mr. Giuliani's popularity had dropped at home. Even fans had tired of his aggressive style.

On the premise that it took tough leadership to tame New York, the former mayor conducted himself with unapologetic hubris, surrounding himself with a deferential inner circle - including Bernard B. Kerik as commissioner of correction and then commissioner of the police. The insular Giuliani team could be secretive, could play loose with people's rights and would even violate the law, attracting lawsuits that City Hall usually lost.

If the Giuliani administration wanted to keep public information from civic groups, elected officials or news organizations, it did. If Mr. Giuliani wanted to release the sealed juvenile records of an unarmed man killed by a police detective, he did. If he wanted to give a government job to a political ally's unqualified son (later indicted for defrauding the city), he did. The tough-guy approach no doubt played a role in controlling the city that once seemed ungovernable, but by the end of the Giuliani years, it had more than begun to pall.

The New York Times reported in 2004 that Bush isn't crazy about Rudy:

Republicans say that Mr. Bush felt little affection for Mr. Giuliani, and that he was particularly perplexed as the mayor allowed his personal life to unravel publicly in the spring of 2000. "There aren't a lot of people close to the president who have those kind of experiences," said the Republican close to the administration, referring to Mr. Giuliani's admissions of infidelity with the woman who became his third wife and to his bitter split from his second wife, Donna Hanover. "It's an issue of not understanding it. I've had discussions with him where he's asked, 'What's this guy all about?'"

....Although people close to the president say he likes and respects Mr. Giuliani, they say the president has long been leery of him as a man who could not be counted on for the loyalty demanded by Mr. Bush. And while the breakdown of Mr. Kerik's nomination is not lethal to Mr. Giuliani's relationship with the White House, the friends and officials say, it will hardly burnish his credentials with the president.

"It hurts him politically, so therefore by extension it's going to hurt him with the White House," said a Republican close to the administration who has worked for both Mr. Bush and Mr. Giuliani and who asked not to be identified because of the political sensitivity of the situation. "Nobody at the White House is saying to themselves, 'Damn that Rudy Giuliani.' It's more, 'Well, he got his licks.' "

The same Times article notes Rudy's lack of people skills:

Mr. Giuliani has been repeatedly mentioned as a possibility for a cabinet position, although rarely, if ever, by anyone in the inner circle at the White House. Although the White House has noticed that Mr. Giuliani is far less combative than he was during his days at City Hall, a top administration official once noted that the former mayor would be good for any job that didn't require him to get along with people. Advisers to Mr. Bush add that as Mr. Giuliani contemplates a run for president in 2008, there is virtually no chance he will be named to a position in the administration because he would have, they say, his own agenda.

Rudy says he's for a strong military. Of course, he never served. He got a deferment for clerking for a federal judge.

Read his support for the Patriot Act, in a letter he co-signed with Ted Olsen and Joe and Victoria Toensing.

Even his war on sex shops in New York didn't last. The New York Times reported:

The former mayor's restrictions on the industry, passed in 1995 as a centerpiece of his quality-of-life campaign, proved toothless after numerous court challenges, and an intransigent industry has found a way to dodge nearly every regulation imposed upon it. While these stores still dot the western edges of Times Square, the Village, which has always prided itself on being a national symbol of tolerance, has become an example of how loopholes and weak language can undermine a once-celebrated law.

Residents and elected officials from the area estimate that 20 new sex-related stores have opened in the area in the past 18 months, and say that glaring neon confronts them along Christopher Street, Seventh Avenue South and Avenue of the Americas.

Note what the sex shops operators had to say:

Even the sex shop proprietors themselves, hectored as they may be, say they have little room to complain. "The Giuliani administration was much more zealous just over closing the places at any cost, right or wrong," said Herald Price Fahringer, a lawyer who represents many of the sex shops. "I think the Bloomberg administration is taking a much more responsible approach. They respect the law. Under Giuliani, at any one time we had pending in the courts two active cases in all five boroughs."

I'll stop now, but if you need a shorter synopsis, check out my post from August, 2004: Giuliani, Could You Just Gag?

Guiliani cleaned up the streets in New York by arresting the poor, the homeless, the squeegee cleaners, the mentally ill and the addicted. Yes, New York became cleaner, but at what price? At the price of freedom....which he now fraudulently pretends to champion. Sickening.

Rudy for President? Perish the thought.

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    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#1)
    by HK on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:49:50 AM EST
    Thanks for all this info, Jeralyn. I'm still ploughing my way through the links. Judging by the size of the post, this guy really got your goat - and rightly so. Lots of this info never made it to the UK and I have only discovered the joys of cybernews relatively recently. I have to say, though, I always wondered just what the fuss was about dear Rudy post 9/11 - what exactly did he do, other than his job? You have answered my question; precious little. And what he did do, he didn't do very well.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#2)
    by roxtar on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:45:19 AM EST
    He's "too ethnic" to stand a chance in the GOP primaries. The red-state wingnuts have home-grown crazies they can vote for, like Brownback. In much of Amurka, Italians are barely white, and Catholics are barely Christian. Good luck, Rudy. Let us know how it works out.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#3)
    by scarshapedstar on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:51:11 AM EST
    But but but but but... 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, the morning of 9/11, September the 11th...

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#4)
    by scribe on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:06:58 AM EST
    TL: Ironic you should bring this up -I was thinking about Mayor Thuggiani while walking the dog this morning. Let's not forget a couple more of the things Rudy the Thug was noted for around NYC (it's early and I have a long day ahead, so please forgive the lack of links; they're available): 1. On the evening of 9/11, when he was holding the teary news conference about the losses of firemen and policeoficers being more than we could bear, his PR folks* were simultaneously starting to float (and it came more into the public consciousness within a couple days), the idea that, since there was so much to do, why don't we just forego the then-six-weeks-off mayoral election until a date more convenient, leaving him to stay in office. Part of the line was that he was doing such a great job, it seemed a shame to have to lose his services to the city. Remember also he was term-limited to have to leave mayoral office on 1/1/02, so he was out. So with Rudy, Terror attack = no more elections. * Among them Christine Laettagano, with whom he was rumored to have had a long-term more-than-professional relationship. 2. Abner Louima - anally sodomized by police (a conspiracy of several cops involved) with a broken broom handle in the bathroom of a precinct. The cops' first story, while he was hospitalized, was that Louima was gay (he had been picked up when the cops hauled in everyone outside a nightclub on, I think, a noice complaint. It was only after the late, lamented Mike McAlary got into the hospital through the side door and printed Louima's story that the cop screamed "It's Giuliani Time!" as he rammed the stick home that the police misconduct got any attention. That Louima later retracted his claim about the cop's statement is of less importance than how readily it was believed - the behavior of police under his administration was such that a cop doing and saying such as Louima described was totally in character. Also, Giuliani never, to my knowledge, even so much as acknowleged what the police did was wrong. 3. Amadou Diallo. Hit with 19 of 41 shots fired by a team of anti-crime police as he stood cornered by them in a doorway, reaching for his wallet to provide ID papers. They said they thought he was reaching for a gun - Rudy backed them to the hilt. Listen to Springsteen's "41 Shots" for more. 4. Abuse of search warrants. When he could be bothered abiding by the warrant requirement, he abused them. There was an visual/graphic artist (not the guy with the elephant dung portrait) whose work irritated Thuggiani for some reason - he had police take out a warrant for his house/studio which included the term "all papers". When this artist got home to find the result of the search, the police had taken every last piece of paper, down to the toilet paper and tissues. What they hadn't taken, they broke up. 5. Utter prostitution of government to corporate development interests and the Disney-fication of Times Square and elsewhere. This will make him very popular with the money crowd. 6. Kerik. (A) Kerik and the book editor. During the immediate post-9/11 cleanup, someone allowed the City to use his apartment downtown, I think in Battery Park City, overlooking the Ground Zero site. The apartment was to be used for cleanup workers - for themselves to rest, recuperate, clean up. Kerik appropriated it and used it for "private meetings" with a book editor with whom he was having a relationship. (B) Oh, the investigation of Kerik for having the mob-related contractor do expensive renovations to the double apartment he no way should have afforded proceeds apace. I always thought renaming the police facility after Kerik was ironic, that somehow, some way Kerik would wind up an inmate there one day. 7. War profiteering. Rudy joined with a number of other folks after leaving office to form Giuliani Partners, an investment and consulting house. One of their transactions was buying an interest in a company which makes "camelbacks" the soft water bladders soldiers use instead of canteens. They seem to have made a good bit of money from the gov't on that. 8. His kids. His son, who by now should have graduated college, is reputed to be an excellent golfer. He has not, to my knowledge, joined the military. 9. Treatment of union workers (and workers in general). (a) Ground Zero. Despite the fact that most if not all of the workers cleaning up Ground Zero were unionized, I have never heard Thuggy say one positive word about unions. And I would bet money he never has. (b) Recently, the first cleanup workers from Ground Zero have started to die from the exposure to the toxic dust and smoke. Not a word out of Thuggy. (c) Remember, Thuggy made his bones in the Reagan Justice Department by being in charge of breaking PATCO, the air traffic controllers' union, during their 1981 strike. That's what led to his getting the S.D.N.Y. US Attorney's appointment. And, when he was the S.D.N.Y. US Attorney, he perp-walked brokers out of their offices during the insider-trading scandals of the late 80s. Which led to his further rise. 10. Race/minority relations. He abuses them, and tolerates those who do, because he can.

    Um, and the problem is???? Except for the Kerik issue, and the police brutality which he isn't even involved in, your "problems" with Rudy are his strenghts! As to the bigoted left winger making cracks about real americans... You should keep up with the reality of Conservative politics. Scalia and Alito are widely adored on the Right, and resemble your remarks. Further, a large number of conservatives are becoming Catholic in traditionalist parishes providing the environment that they want and the rejection of leftist theology. Traditionalist Catholicism is the urban professional's alternative to an evangelical church in suburbs or rural areas. But thanks for demonstrating your ignorance, bigotry, and lack of manners.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#6)
    by cowboyx on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:59:22 AM EST
    "His problems are his strengths!!" Just quoting the future bumper sticker. I like it. So, we have at least one person hoping to vote for Rudy on the basis that it will annoy the vague concept called "The Left". In sincere curiosity, what exactly are Rudy's strengths that would make him a good President?

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:25:10 AM EST
    scribe - Do you have record of anyone asking him If what the cops had done was wrong, AFTER the cops were convicted? Ask the question before and you're not going to get an answer. The cops get the presumption of innocence just like your everyday thug. et al - Like it or not, much of the country, especially in the "fly over" part see him as the person who cleaned up NYC. That immediately defuses any so-called Repub "decadence" issue. Do I "like him" for Pres? Don't know, still thinking about it. He can beat McCain in the primaries. The Senator bears the cross of McCain-Feingold, which will lay him open to the charge that he wouldn't veto any "Fairness" rules on radio/tv. In addition, his recent comments re his rather havinvg "clean" government than free speech really zaps him with the Right, and he can't slip sideways because it dovetails exactly into McCain-Feingold. Rudy is also seen as mean and tough, and every Repub knows that this will be crucial against Hillary. He'll get 20% just on that point. I reserve the right to change my mind, it is still to early, but I see a Rudy vs Hillary dance in '08 with the guy from NY winning by 2%.

    Like every potential candidate, Rudy has his skeletons. The one which everyone has missed will be THE reason he cannot win the GOP nomination: he's pro-choice. All the above links are interesting and certainly paint one side the story quite well. What I'm curious about now is the relevance of the following: From scribe:
    8. His kids. His son, who by now should have graduated college, is reputed to be an excellent golfer. He has not, to my knowledge, joined the military.
    Isn't it a little early in the game to be mentioning the candidate kids? And for what reason? Is there a complaint there?

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:34:30 AM EST
    I'm just glad Ghouliani isn't president now. A guy like him would hve no druthers about rounding up a couple million people into prison camps.

    One to ten and a b c, How far right can one man be. Got called a thug, This poor repub. Sounds 'bout right for the GOP.

    TL, I agree with most of your dish on Guliani, except with the giving "credit" for the crime rate decline not to the mayor but to his "broken windows" following Police Commissioner, Bratton. Fact is, a lot of bloom is off the rose of this conservative (Edmond O. Wilson) crime-fighting theory, beloved by Guliani and the bourgeouis Manhattan residents who supported him, that you get tough on minor crime, pot dealing, graffiti, turnstile-jumping, etc. and major crime will also be diminished. A comparison of cities with broken windows policing (NYC, LA) shows no significant differences in crime rates with cities which did not endorse that theory (e.g., Baltimore). The Diallo, Loiuima and Dorismund shootings were directly related to "Operation Condor" a massive undercover street-level roundup of pot dealers, smokers and even stung, would-be buyers which still goes on to this day, generating millions of dollars of cop overtime for each bust. 10% of the estimated 750,000 arrests for pot smoking happen in NYC, once famously tolerant of those things, now more locked down now than some red state city like Munsey, IN where they roll up the sidewalks at dusk (and flouting the letter of NYS's 1976 "decrim" law where small amounts of pot are supposed to be "ticketed"...tough guy Guliani ignored that law and pot offenses are now punished by an illegal overnight jail stay and ticket dismisssed). Bloomberg hasn't changed this policy or ratcheted down Operation Condor, BTW, despite all the justified criticism. That all said, with all of the personal and political issues detailed above which would seem to make Guliani damaged goods, probably the biggest rap on his chances to go anywhere with the Republicans in '08 is that he SUPPORTS gays and women in choice issues. That means we probably don't have to worry more about the prospect of him attaining high office again, at least under the Republican flag.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:41:24 AM EST
    Isn't it a little early in the game to be mentioning the candidate kids? And for what reason? Is there a complaint there? Yeah, chase, you really have to wonder why Rudy would even bring it up....

    edger: That's not the standard. The taboo is on political opponents bringing up a candidates children.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:49:58 AM EST
    Right wingers love Gulianni because he showed liberal elites how to run their own city and he was a great leader during 9/11. I suppose being the wife of an ex president makes better qualifications for the left then actually leading when it matters but so be it. He may not win the nomination because McCain is a better choice but to write him off shows that the left still has no idea who we 51% of the country really are.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#15)
    by scribe on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:51:32 AM EST
    Chase T: No, it's not too early to be bringing up his kids. There's a war on, so little Andrew should be joining up. He isn't, so he's fair game. And, I'm not a candidate, so there's no taboo to violate. BTW, from what I read, Pataki's son joined the Marines, w/o fanfare or public notice. Good on him.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:55:29 AM EST
    Mr. Giuliani offered a stout defense of President Bush's leadership, arguing that the economy was growing and that Mr. Bush would go down in history as "a great president." That alone should make it a lock for him. ;-)

    Scribe: I didn't realize we had a policy of forced conscription in the US. Who are you to say he "should" have volunteered? And you're right, you're not a candidate so there's no reason you can't mudsling to your heart's content. But I thought the Left was above the fray of cheap political stunts? I couldn't give a continental about Rudy this early in the cycle but I tend to think dragging a candidate's family through the muck is pretty low.

    Come back Napoleon Bonaparte, In all the wars you did start. You led from the front, It weren't no stunt. That's the message to impart.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:07:18 AM EST
    Nice one.

    Edgar thanks for the link, there be some wicked stuff in there.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:16:38 AM EST
    I remember flush had no problem takin' cheap shots at Chelsea Clinton when she was 12 or 13 and in her ugly duckling stage. Repo hypocrisy never ceases to amaze and amuse. They never could remember anything before yesterday anyway. No wonder they have trouble understanding why anyone would retaliate aginst them: George W. Bush,
    State of the Union - January 31,2006

    We have entered a great ideological conflict we did nothing to invite.


    Scribe, 1. The situation in NY was chaotic after 9/11. Giuliani floated the idea that he would stay on to help. 2. "Also, Giuliani never, to my knowledge, even so much as acknowledged what the police did was wrong." Try Google, liar. 3. Amadou Diallo. Listen to the jury verdict for more. 4. So vague and unsubstantiated it needn't be addressed. 5. I guess it really sux for ya when you are looking for a transsexual whore. 6. Not about Giuliani so really not important. 7. Its called a job. Libs seem to resent those not on the public dole. 8. Oh please, can you look yourself in the mirror after posting that weak trash? 9. After the last transit strike, most NYers care more about how unions treat the city. 10. The answer is pissin in the wind, so is your post.

    Hey scribe you hear what he's sayin' Ladies or gents don't you flamin' Temperatures rise, No surprise. Keep it civil is all I's prayin'. I think my limericks is statin' to rap

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:57:48 AM EST
    demohypocrates: Snarking Dawg, Waiting for Faroe. Welcome to the happy home of Snarkasm.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:42:37 AM EST
    charlie writes:
    I remember flush had no problem takin' cheap shots at Chelsea Clinton when she was 12 or 13 and in her ugly duckling stage. Repo hypocrisy never ceases to amaze and amuse.
    Hmmm, maybe your speaking in tongues, charlie...(watch for that snake being passed to you, its a copperhead...) but I have no idea who "flush" is. Now in the off hand chance, you meant George Walker Bush, I posit that: 1. Your are full of mud. 2. Bush never attacked Chelsa when she was 12 - 13. Can you prove your claim? Now, if you meant someone else: 1. Please advise who. 2. Please provide proof. Yours in laghter. Chase - Pro choice is no longer a third rail issue, and neither is divorce/sex, etc. Why? Many conservative women vote. And Clinton erased the second issue. Slado - McCain can't win because of the reasons I posted above. et al - You folks should understand something. We-uns out chere in da hinterlands dun been to sum of dem fancy ethnc resturants like-un "Olive Garden," "Outback," and MacDonalds... And we-uns love i tal land, aussie barbie stuff and Scotties... I mean sum of these joints are actually multi-national (I learned thatwurd on the InherNet).... Why just thu other week the busboy at the San Fran Cisssco Steak House was from Mex i co..... So New YORK city aint a problum anymore....

    Don't give up your day job.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:35:02 AM EST
    I sure hope he is the Republican candidate. To see him exposed for the fascist he is on the wide screen for all of America to see would be great. He was no leader. He has no heart. His orders to his private army, as it was called, for any form of legal protest, was to arrest them. Let the judge decide was his war cry. Had he not tried to pull a coup by canceling elections, NYers may still be buying his bogus revisionist history of NYC during his term. He reminded every shell shocked NYer that avarice, mendacity and self serving rhetoric was all the egomaniacal mayor ever had to offer. He hated NYC. Not tidy enough. Disneyfication is his dream. All the people who don't fit go to jail. A total fake, just like Goofy. I really hope he gets the nomination.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:46:58 AM EST
    Disneyfication is his dream
    Thanks for reminding me how much I miss "old" New York...back when the place had some character and originality. Rudy helped turn it into Anytown USA...how lame. Sure, it was a little more dangerous...some of us liked it that way. Like I said, it had character. Now it's just an empty shell with police and cameras everywhere...Disney and Starbucks and McDonalds everywhere. Sad.

    There is a great new movie about Giuliani coming out it's called Giuliani Time. It tells the truth about what he was like in NYC.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#31)
    by Slado on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:31:17 AM EST
    Republicans if they're smart will nominate Gulliani or McCain because the playingfeild will be different in 2008. The populace will have grown tired of Bush conservatism but won't be ready to embrace kdogs america "High crime and free love" and a middle ground choice will be just what the doctor ordered. IE the govenator winning in Kalifornia. My 2cents.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#32)
    by Dadler on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:39:06 AM EST
    I propose that from now on we call him Julie Annie.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#33)
    by Dadler on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:01:34 AM EST
    charlie, actually, the governator, having had his "agenda" quashed at the polls, has taken a certain populist turn. He's used to having his bad screenplays rewritten into, at least, less bad ones. bush can't even say this much. and moving east from sacramento, there ain't many action stars for the repubs to cling onto. especially not ones who seem to be taking a few steps to "the left". quotes to be removed upon seeing more results.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:01:36 PM EST
    but won't be ready to embrace kdogs america
    Ya gotta admit...the place would be would be interesting:)

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#35)
    by joejoejoe on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:13:40 PM EST
    It's a free country. If Giuliani wants to run in a GOP primary it's not for Democrats to push him out. You didn't see Republicans pushing Sharpton out of the Democratic primary - they embraced him because they understood a caricature of Sharpton's faults helped the GOP cause with independent and Republican voters. A caricature of Giuliani's faults will come out in a GOP primary (publicized by Frist, Brownback, Romney, etc.) and it will only serve to enhance Democratic standing with independent voters. Let the GOP voters decide their own battles - I'd like to see McCain and Giuliani both in the race because they appeal to the same voters. Let them split the vote and have the '08 GOP nominee be the second coming of Barry Goldwater. A big loser.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:42:59 PM EST
    Oscar Wilde - We'uns dont have no day job, we being retireeed amd live off them there in vest ments us dumb old red staters made.... A good thang, too be causeeee the uppa keep on this here palatial (another one of them there inhernet wurds I lurned) retire ment com pound, cat fish pooond and B B Q Stand is prettie dog gone high, youall know.. charlie - I see you still never provide proof of any claim.... Can I put you down as a feather weight? All field and no hit?

    The opposition here to Giuliani, while heartfelt, misses what will actually appeal to most americans (hell, even most New Yorkers). Thinking that "Disneyfication" is a useful critique, or that liking NYC when it was more dangerous because it was unique is a broad sentiment, is a serious electoral challenge. As I said before, your "charicature" of Rudy will IMPROVE his standing with Republicans and moderate Dems. Making NYC more like the rest of America, "anytown, USA", is what drives the tourist boom, increase in applications to NYU, solidification of Manhattan/NYC as an aspirational luxury brand of a place to visit, live, or work. That's like threatening to tell people that Clinton "stood up" to Sistah Souljah (yeah, I know, it was a total BS thing that Clinton's team invented, but it still worked) "don't throw me into that briar patch". Personally, I prefer him as a VP candidate. The Rice-Giuliani ticket is the dream of so many of us on the vigourous right... I know you hate her even more, but that's kind of the point :)

    There are two kinds of people who are really fascinating; people who know absolutely everything, and people who know absolutely nothing. ~ It often happens that the real tragedies of life occur in such an inartistic manner that they hurt us by their crude violence, their absolute incoherence, their absurd want of meaning, their entire lack of style. O.W.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:13:11 PM EST
    You're probably right hey...look at what our hatred for Bush brought about...a second term. That being said, I'm not concerned with playing politics...just calling them as I see them. Besides, the christian right will quite simply never go for this guy, regardless of how much us lefties dislike him. Not one of "them".

    "It's Giuliani Time!" as he rammed the stick home that the police misconduct got any attention. That Louima later retracted his claim about the cop's statement is of less importance than how readily it was believed
    This is such typical liberal crap. "It wasn't true but... it could have happened" Just like Tawana Brawley-the fact that she was exposed as a fraud did not matter one bit to you people.

    you've been knocked down twice this round, you're bleedin' from cuts over both eyes and your nose, well, it ain't where a nose is supposed to be, you're droppin' your left, leavin' ya wide open to one straight right after another, you're way behind on points and your knees are doin' more bucklin' than Nascar, Rodeo and a Brooks and Dunn/Toby Keith World Tour.
    Get th
    Nice sentence grammar boy. Where the hell do you get off criticizing the grammar of others?

    Posted by scribe May 2, 2006 07:51 AM Chase T: No, it's not too early to be bringing up his kids. There's a war on, so little Andrew should be joining up. He isn't, so he's fair game. And, I'm not a candidate, so there's no taboo to violate. BTW, from what I read, Pataki's son joined the Marines, w/o fanfare or public notice. Good on him.
    Will Chelsea be signing up?

    Why even mention "Giuliani time" knowing that it is not true?

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:02:37 PM EST
    charlie - As regards to you, charlie, my mission is to point out your errors and inaccurate statements, and provide corrective information via links. Since you are either too lazy, or to dumb to learn, or think you are to clever to need to, your failure to respond with proof will just further, especially over time, show that you are just a ranter and raver, with no real ability to make a point. Now, give us some baseball trivia. Hank? Babe? Mickey? The Curse? Oh, I see you are now into boxing.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:37:35 PM EST
    Way to stay on topic Jim. And, "a link" thats an opinion piece by Chris "Why not blood for oil" Hitchens saying that any law that convicts the ones that blew Plames cover is a bad law is too unintentionally comedic even for you. Desperation obviously does nothing but make you dumber.

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:52:58 PM EST
    jrt-
    Why even mention "Giuliani time" knowing that it is not true?
    Well that is not exactly right. "Giuliani time" came to be the words used to describe the unspoken freedom the police enjoyed to abuse the unwashed masses. It doesn't matter what Officer Justin Volpe or any other one of Giuliani's private army said when they arrested, shot, or broomstick raped someone. What matters is, that type of sanctioned sadism came to be known as "Giuliani time".

    Re: Giuliani in Iowa: Will Consider a 2008 Preside (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Wed May 03, 2006 at 10:48:36 AM EST
    One good thing about a Guiliani nomination...it would signal an end to the christian extremist stranglehold on the GOP. We'd still get the police state, but at least we wouldn't have to praise Jesus while they bash in our heads.

    I don't know that the Red Staters would be happy with Giuliani, after they've seen his cross-dressing act from SNL. The Left will runs ads to ruin Giulianis' chances for the nomination in 2008, paving the way for the inevitable triumph of Hillary as the next POTUS. You heard it here first :>)