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A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July

let-freedom-ring

America. Land of the free, home of the brave. I used to enjoy the 4th of July, with all its connotations to freedom and democracy. This year it rings hollow.

We may still be the home of the brave, witness the troops risking their lives in Iraq and Afganistan, but we are no longer the land of the free and now I feel sad when I see pictures of the Liberty Bell accompanied by the slogan, "Let Freedom Ring."

I blame President Bush and his administration of fear-mongers, willing to strike fear of terror in the heart of every American to fulfill his bid for unbridled exectuive power, for the demise of our civil liberties. We had an attack on 9/11 and yes, many people died. But that did not warrant taking away the very constitutional rights that made us the beacon of liberty in the free world. I also blame the radical right henchman in Congress, like James Sensenbrenner and Tom Tancredo, as well as xenophobic Americans, who would put a "closed" sign on the Statue of Liberty.

I look to where we are headed. Records of our telephone calls and financial records will be logged into a secret data-mining program. The cop who stops you for a traffic ticket will punch a few keys on his dash-mounted computer and pull up everything from your credit record to your lawsuit against your neighbor. Our e-mails and google searches will be scrutinized for inappropriate content. "Sneak and peek" search warrants will be used to enter our homes without leaving so much as a piece of paper to let us know law enforcement was there. Maybe they won't take anything and will just turn on your computer and made a copy of your hard drive. Maybe they will leave an unseen device that will record a copy of every keystroke you type.

I never used to be a paranoid person. But our Supreme Court is close to being stacked with right-wing ideologues and Congress keeps stripping judges of their power to serve as a check and balance on a runaway executive branch that operates in unprecedented secrecy and a Congress that wants to treat the Constitution as a rough draft by passing unnecessary and misguided amendments. Today is a day we should be reveling in the greatness of our nation but instead I fear for the health of our democracy.

[Cross-posted on Huffington Post]

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    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#1)
    by glanton on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 12:31:17 PM EST
    I blame President Bush and his administration of fear-mongers, willing to strike fear of terror in the heart of every American to fulfill his bid for unbridled exectuive power, for the demise of our civil liberties.
    Me too, on the gut level. But then I remember that people are not empty receptacles. In the end there is nobody to blame but the Uhmerrikahn peeple themselves.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 12:47:49 PM EST
    I believe, and I know this from my own journey through my life, that freedom is more of an inner experience than an outer one, and is something that cannot be given to me, or taken from me. With that thought I leave this link. "To live outside the law, you must be honest": Freedom and The Law in Dylan's Lyrics 1964-1966 (MSWord Document) By Elizabeth Brake Department of Philosophy University of Calgary
    Poets, philosophers, and priests have historically presented different ideals of personal freedom. In the 19th and 20th centuries, the relation of freedom to culture preoccupied moral and political philosophers, one school insisting that personal freedom (or autonomy, in one sense of the word) required a certain independence from one's surrounding culture, the other that such freedom required the internalisation of cultural norms. In this paper, I examine Bob Dylan's take on the question of how freedom relates to cultural membership - in particular, whether adhering to the norms of a culture - of twentieth century American culture, to be precise - threatens freedom.
    ...
    Bob Dylan stands for an ideal of personal freedom, in some sense.
    ...
    "To live outside the law, you must be honest." Why? Outside what law? Is there another law, mandating honesty, outside the law? In this essay, I will trace a philosophical dialectic of freedom in lyrics from four albums of this period - Another Side of Bob Dylan, Bringing it All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, and Blonde on Blonde - bringing us finally to this extra-legal imperative of honesty.


    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 12:49:06 PM EST
    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    The Space Shuttle looked fantastic on blast off. A good day for it.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:13:44 PM EST
    This travesty of an Administration has given a black eye to the Statue of Liberty. When the Attorney General cannot remember the First Amendment, when the Vice President's nightmares dictate using torture on innocent people, when the President so abhors the Constitution he signs it away every chance he has, at times like these patriots feel hollow on Independence Day. Just as hollow as our Constitutional rights are becoming, what with SCOTUS, LLP, poised to finally become the kangaroo court it's been threatening to mutate into... So, when's the next Constitutional Convention?

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:23:40 PM EST
    Wile - It is nearly 40 years since Buzz Aldrin spoke into his helmet mike and said...
    "Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed."
    ...while looking at this. Sometimes looking back helps in moving forward. What can the United States accomplish with true vision? Imagine.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:27:18 PM EST
    There are people in the world who know nothing of the horrible mediocrity into which civilisation, philosophers, public speakers, salesmen and gossips have plunged the human race. They think only of adding to their comfort, heedless that one day true men and women will come up from the river and down from the mountain, more implacable than the grass of the apocalypse. Jean Giono

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#8)
    by Andreas on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:30:08 PM EST
    On July 4, 2006, it is appropriate to recall once again the affirmation in the Declaration of Independence of the people's right to "alter or abolish" any government that abrogates their "unalienable rights," and to replace it with a new system that "to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." The Socialist Equality Party looks forward confidently to the day when American working people will exercise this universal right, uniting with workers all over the world in a new revolution that will put an end to war, poverty and oppression, establishing a socialist society organized to meet the needs of the majority rather than the profit interests of a ruling elite.
    July 4th 2006: The state of US democracy 230 years after the American Revolution By Bill Van Auken, 4 July 2006

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#9)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:38:45 PM EST
    actually jeralyn, the constitution is a rough draft. were it not, the authors wouldn't have included a process to amend it. it is a work in process. don't they teach that in law school? so to, is our country. throughout our brief history, we've witnessed the same set of xenophobes and wannabe dictators emerge from their caves, in times of national stress . somehow, we always survived them. we aren't a nation of extremists by nature; when that pendulem swings too far, we always drag it back to near center. so too with the present bunch, they soon will be relegated to the dustbin of history, a bad joke we played on ourselves. i'm certain, during the mccarthy era, many felt as you. we survived, and will continue to do so, as long as we maintain constant vigilance.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 01:43:23 PM EST
    I hope that the 'hollow feeling' that many of us are experiencing is not a symptom of the early stages of a totalitarian regime establishing its grip. If it is, the 'hollow feeling' will in time be replaced by a terrifying feeling for not getting feigned nationalism and patriotism just right. Fireworks, or the candy coated disneyfication of war, lose their appeal for me when so much senseless killing is going on in our name. Sad, as there is no glory in war, especially this one.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#11)
    by theologicus on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 02:01:09 PM EST
    From State of Exception by Giorgio Agamben (University of Chjicago Press, 2004): Bush's decision to refer to himself constantly as the "Commander in Chief of the Army" after September 11, 2001, must be considered in the context of [his] claim to sovereign powers in emergency situations. . . . Bush is attempting to produce a situation in which the emergency becomes the rule, and the very distinction between peace and war (and between foreign and civil war) becomes impossible. We seem to be moving toward a presidential dictatorship.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 02:07:13 PM EST
    You feel hollow and it's someone else's fault? Oh my. Why am I not surprised.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 02:31:30 PM EST
    The "welfare of the nation" is threatened by foreigners? Oh my. Why am I not suprised?

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#14)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 02:37:55 PM EST
    cpinva, I would respectfully submit that our republic is in the worst danger of its short history. No other admin has had the trifecta of technology, control of all 3 branches and a vengeful, incurious, violent addict as its figurehead. Aside from the fact that for 230 years the rights that were self evident have been eroded.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimcee on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 04:28:53 PM EST
    You know lately when I come here I have to check the address bar just to make sure I'm not at DemocracticUnderground but lo' and behold it says TalkLeft. Go figure.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#16)
    by Steven Sanderson on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 04:40:37 PM EST
    I fear half of our populace more than I fear any terrorist. Sure, the threat of terrorism is real, but any individual's odds of becoming a victim of terrorism in the U.S. is extremely small. On the other hand, the half of American voters who've supported Bush have, in effect, supported Bushco's evisceration of the U.S. Constitution. It is those Americans that I fear because they are competing with the terrorists to see which group can do the most harm to us by destroying our liberties and way of life.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#17)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 05:12:31 PM EST
    TL - I think your sentiments are shared by many. I fear for my children's future.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 05:49:57 PM EST
    jimcee - Lately? I think you've been making some variation on that same post for six months. It does say TalkLeft.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 05:52:02 PM EST
    Go figure.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 06:31:10 PM EST
    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 07:01:34 PM EST
    jimcee:
    You know lately when I come here I have to check the address bar just to make sure I'm not at DemocracticUnderground but lo' and behold it says TalkLeft.
    Well jimcee, I must say that I've never understood why you do come here, because its always been obvious that you do not understand the meaning of the words "Talk Left". Were you upset about all the people walking in the street at your local July 4th Parade today?

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#22)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 07:18:21 PM EST
    JM, No woman no cry.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 07:29:02 PM EST
    Oh the absolute euphoria on this transplendent fourth to know that all the Hellfar 'n brimstone 'n my-norty fearin' folks had the good sinse ta overlook the C student-got-in-on-a legacy, hid-out-from-a-war-he-supported, ran-every-venture-he-was-ever-involved-in-into-the-ground 'n go with the recognizable ('n God fearin') brand name. Yeah Buddy! Ole Georgie's 'n Merican he-ro. Dont matter what any 'a em I-raqi's say.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 08:04:57 PM EST
    Thank you, Jeralyn... for creating TalkLeft.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 09:24:12 PM EST
    Bush PR man, posting as PBRman, is apparently dyslexic, like his hero.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 09:28:13 PM EST
    OK. Step away from the keyboard for a few. This is a great country we all live in, the greatest country on earth. ......and until I hear of a boatload of Americans rescued off the coast of Cuba while trying to enter that country I will continue to believe it. One word that may help some of you...Medication.........

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#27)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 10:13:41 PM EST
    sailor, et al, take a chill pill guys. bush, inc. is hardly the first, though he may be the worst, of bad presidents, espousing bad laws, laws designed to eviscerate those freedoms ennumerated in the constitution. bear in mind, this started shortly after the constitution was ratified, with the alien and sedition act of 1798, making it a crime to exercise free speech. didn't last long. there have constantly been attacks on our freedoms, almost always from the inside. almost always in the name of safety and security. there have always been a segment of the population willing to give up their freedom, for safety and security. fortunately, they comprise a very small % of the total population. this country will survive bush. should he, at some point, decide to ignore the supreme court, even the republicans will have to cede it's time for him to go. at least, those who haven't gone totally off the deep end. that would be most of them. by the way, anyone who advertizes that they drink pabst blue ribbon cannot be taken serially! lol

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#28)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:01:47 AM EST
    Is even the 4th now an excuse to bash the president? If liberals can't even take one day out of the entire year to put partisan OPINIONS aside and celebrate this great nation then I find it hard to take their arguments seriously. Here you sit blogging away on your computer able to type the most horendous statements about your leader, while you sip a double choclate moca in you way above average home compared to the worlds citizens with you way above average car in the garage with the freedom to do anything you want on this holiday and you want us to believe that things are so horrible? News Flash! You live in a great country, the greatest that has ever exhisted in the history of humankind. Repulicans survived Jimmy Carter, democrats survived Reagan, republicans survived Clinton, you will survive Bush and God help us if for some unfortunate reason Hillary gets elected republicans will survie that too. We can disagree about the details and some major issues but this is still the best country in the World and we should all celebrate our good fortune. As your leader said yesterday, "Every day is Independence Day".

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:32:24 AM EST
    Slado- That is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read here. From the word "partisan OPINIONS" the entire remainder of your post is about itself.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#30)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:36:57 AM EST
    Thanks for the personal attack edgar. Since you live in america you can attack me and the president as well. God Bless you and God Bless America!

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:46:16 AM EST
    Right, Slado. Criticizing statements you make is 'personal attack'? Right... I forgot for a moment which side of the mirror you're reading it from. Gotcha.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#32)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:53:23 AM EST
    The absolute blind nationalism of Slado and his ilk are the bedrock upon which totalitarian regimes develop. To say that the US and/or its leaders have problems only says that they are not perfect. Even with its blemishes it can be a place where we are all happy to live. To deny those blemishes and problems is shortsighted and prevents the US from becoming even better. Blind nationalism allows bad policies to continue as they are now. We will all reap the "rewards" of such bad policies. One can easily argue that the US is simply "reaping what it sowed" in the ME today. Blind nationalistic adherence to continued bad policy will only cause an escalation in problems not their solution.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:04:53 AM EST
    Blind nationalistic adherence to continued bad policy will only cause an escalation in problems not their solution. Exactly. Well put, Soccerdad.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#34)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:18:47 AM EST
    Edgar and Soc, You can make fun or crticise my patriotism that is your right. I choose to believe that this country is great no matter who serves in office. Do you really believe this country is headed down some dangerous road or do you simply tell yourself that to justify your misguided beliefs? Great link from Jeff Jacoby about the "dictator" that doesn't exist. Boston Globe The problem with exhageration is you look pretty stupid when it never happens. The I hate this america montra that the far left has embraced is never going to win over the nation let alone win an election. Even Americans that have their doubts about this president still love THIS country and don't want to hear some over the top pessimists tell them that THEIR country is headed down the road to dictatorship when any 8th grader could discribe the differneces between this country and a real dictatorship.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:24:53 AM EST
    Independence day is not, nor was it ever intended to be, a day for excusing those who would make the day meaningless.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#36)
    by Sailor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:33:29 AM EST
    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:02:54 AM EST
    In all fairness Slado, you did ask two questions that deserve answers. Do you really believe this country is headed down some dangerous road... Yes... Raad Jeralyn's post. She summed it up rather thoroughly. do you simply tell yourself that to justify your misguided beliefs? There is no answer, I think, that would satisfy you. This question leaves me wondering if you've ever really read and honestly attempted to understand anything that has been said by anyone here.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:21:27 AM EST
    that THEIR country is headed down the road to dictatorship when any 8th grader could discribe the differneces between this country and a real dictatorship.
    This is logically wrong. The country could be headed in that direction without being there. Not many have said it is a dictatorship. But the use of fear tactics, the increase in monitoring of all its citizens, and the concentration of power in the executive branch during an arbitrarily named War on Terror is certainly headed in the wrong direction. This could easily be stopped in its tracks if our elected officials chose to do so. The road to totalitarian rule is slow, it doesnt happen over night. The more freedoms they take away the easier it becomes to take even more away.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#39)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:47:17 AM EST
    Soc & Ed, Let me rephrase. How far down the road do you think we've proceeded? I will accept the theory that democracy doesn't end quickly but slowly errodes. One only need look at history for examples of how this can happen. So I will accept that some in this country think this president is grabbing power etc.. I disagree and personally believe he is properly executing the office of the presidency and if he oversteps his bound the congress and legislature have acted. I don't see this as a sign of an erroding democracy but as a sign of an active and funtioning one. Agree to disagree. My greater point is even if I accpet that he is working on becoming a dictator I would counter that he is only on the first mile of a million mile journey and that our cournty is too great to allow what you fear to happen. One need only to read the news and see hearings, court rulings etc... to see that no president has the power to rule as he see fits. One shouldn't confuse a president winning a debate that you don't agree with as a sign that our democracy is in jeapordy. If that was the case then we'd always be heading down that road in someone's opinion wouldn't we? I closing I think the left is exhagerating the situation for whatever reason and its a poor excuse not to enjoy the one day we should all give thanks that we live in such a great country.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:30:12 AM EST
    Slado - I won't bother to bite on your attempts to revisit everything that has been covered here by many for as long as I've been commenting here other than to say that I won't bother, for the simple reason that you are using the usual tactic of ignoring all discussion and attempting to keep endlessly repeating the same things, without ever listening or making any honest atempt to understand the points that have been made, the evidence that has arisen, or the action of this administration. You remain in denial, and as I intimiated earlier I doubt "you've ever really read and honestly attempted to understand anything that has been said by anyone here", or if you have, you choose to ignore it.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:30:51 AM EST
    Go read the archives, Slado.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#42)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:45:43 AM EST
    Edgar your reply reminds me of a Pheobe quote from Freinds... "Hello Kettle, this is pot, you're black". My last post was an honest attempt to debate you. If you don't want to respond just say so or don't. Don't accuse me of ignoring you etc... Happy 4th of July!

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#43)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:00:04 AM EST
    shorter Slado You're all still wrong rah rah rah go team.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:07:10 AM EST
    Thanks for your offer, Slado. I think I will pass this time around. Endlessly and repeatedly debating the same things with you is pointless.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 11:27:36 AM EST
    Yup, Slado, Nice try, but it's an undebatable fact that ChimpyMcBushhitlerRoveMcHalliburton is abslutely, undeniably the worst warmongeringfascistDictator-for-Life scoundrel the world has ever known. Period. End of discussion. Worse than Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Jenjhis Kahn, and Attila the Hun all rolled into one. It's patently obvious to anyone but the most brain-dead mouth-breathing dittohead. Dissent from this view is pointless and absolutely, unequivocally wrong. And even worse, it could easily be perceived as nationalistic, even patriotic, which, frankly, is the ultimate unforgiveable crime. You must adhere to this viewpoint or mark yourself as a warmongering fascist unable to think for himself. Yeeeeeaaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#46)
    by Sailor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 11:52:46 AM EST
    Worse than Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Jenjhis Kahn, and Attila the Hun all rolled into one.
    Great post! Here's your cookie Now back under the bridge please.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#47)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 12:45:33 PM EST
    Bullfrog sets up the strawman and smashes it! I bet his mommy is proud!

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:36:29 PM EST
    pbrman...can I borrow that as sarcasm? "The great liberator"...I almost wet my pants. I read the Bill of Rights on Independence Day....may the sun god save thE USA embodied in that precious document that has been the thorn in the side of govt. for 200 years. Even it's current slightly eviscerated form, it's still a beautiful thing. And as long as the lovers of freedom keep pissin' and moanin'...we should be able to keep her around for our kids and grandkids.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:46:14 PM EST
    Guys, you will not believe what the arrogant power-grubbing Chimpster want to do next in terms of his UNPRECEDENTED violations of our long-cherished personal and financial privacy rights. You will NOT believe it! But here goes. He wants to - get this! - make every single person in this country who earns a paycheck fill out a long, detailed form and MAIL or email it in to the Federal Government on just about every aspect of their personal financial lives. And not just once, but EVERY SINGLE YEAR! I'm not kidding. He wants us to list - on pain of heavy financial fines and penalties, and even PRISON! - all of the following: our name; our spouse's name; our personal private home address; our phone number; our social security number; our spouse's social security number; our date of birth; our spouse's date of birth; who we work for; where we work; how much our employer paid us (rounded to the nearest dollar); who we gave to for charity (itemized); how much we gave to charity (itemized, to the nearest dollar); our bank account number(s); how much we earned in interest from our bank account(s); which stocks we bought; how many shares of stock we bought; what dates we bought each share of stock on; what stocks we sold; how many shares of stock we sold; what dates we sold our shares of stock on; how much we made (or lost) on each transaction. Etc. Etc. Apparently to make this more palatable to the masses he's going to use some innocuous sounding form names like "1040" and "Schedule A" and "Schedule D", etc, etc. But it gets worse. To make sure everything we're required to report to the Federal Government is "correct", and all on the up and up, he's requiring our employers to send to the Federal government a form on personal private financial information(a "W2") showing how much they paid us; our bankers to send to the Federal government a report of personal private financial information on how much interest they paid us on which accounts (a "Form 1099-INT); and our brokers to report personal private financial information to the Federal government on what stock transactions we made and how much we made and/or how much we lost (various other "Form 1099's). But it gets worse. The Chimpster and his fascist minions are so untrusting of their citizenry, and so impatient and money-grubbing in their greed - that they want our employers to send off a part of every paycheck we earn DIRECTLY to them, the Federal government!! That's right - some of every dollar you earn won't even touch your pocket, the Chimpster now plans to redirect it straight into the pockets of the Federal Government! He and his Rovian goons are going to use some innocuous sounding term like "withholding", I believe, although the line between "withholding" and "confiscation" sounds like a pretty darn fine line, don't you think? But it's all going to be sold to the sheeple as going to a "good cause" and "necessary" because Chimpster and the Federal government "need" it, so they're hoping it won't be seen as an erosion of our personal privacy or as seizure of our personal property. I mean, it's just a paycheck, not our personal private money and property, or so they'll tell us. The chutzpah! Is this incredible and UNPRECEDENTED, or WHAT?!! Talk about your hollow 4th of Julys. Our forefathers from 50 or 60 years ago could NEVER have even imagined these UNPRECEDENTED, unimaginable violations of our personal and financial privacy!! But that's what the Chimpster and his fascist lapdogs - or, maybe, Cheney or Rove and their fascist lapdog - are intending to do RIGHT NOW!! No doubt aided by a roll-over, do-nothing rubber stamp same-party Rethuglican Congress that won't do what's right and stop it!

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:49:51 PM EST
    Um . . . . uh . . . . . . . . it's come to my attention that all that stuff about the Federal government making you report all your personal private financial information, and all that, has . . . uh . . . been going on for a little while, maybe, . . . uh, . . . even before Chimpy came along. And I guess that "withholding" thing was introduced back during World War II by, uh . . . President Roosevelt and a uh . . . same-party Congress of, um . . ., uh . . . , Democrats. Not that that's important or anything. And then kind of, more or less, kept in place during the reigns - I mean, terms - of Dictators - I mean, Presidents - Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and then the Chimpster. So . . . , uh . . . ., um . . . . . . uh . . . . Never mind.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:56:24 PM EST
    Guys, you will not believe what the arrogant power-grubbing Chimpster want to do next in terms of his UNPRECEDENTED violations of our long-cherished civil liberties and fundamental rights. You will NOT believe it! But here goes. He wants to - get this! - go out and round up THOUSANDS - no, make that TENS OF THOUSANDS! - of Muslims in the wake of 9/11 and put them into concentration camps - or, "relocation camps" if you will. Men, women, children . . . US CITIZENS!!! . . . Without charges. Without trials. Ripped away from their jobs, their businesses, stripped of their basic fundamental freedoms! - simply for the "crime" of being Muslim!! Is this incredible and UNPRECEDENTED, or WHAT?!! Talk about your hollow 4th of Julys. Our forefathers from 50 or 60 years ago could NEVER have even imagined these UNPRECEDENTED, unimaginable violations of our civil liberties and fundamental rights!! But that's what the Chimpster and his fascist lapdogs - or, maybe, Cheney or Rove and their fascist lapdog - are intending to do RIGHT NOW!! No doubt aided by a roll-over, do-nothing rubber stamp same-party Rethuglican Congress that won't do what's right and stop it! There has NEVER been anything like the Chimpster and his goons in our history, that's undeniable.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 04:02:14 PM EST
    Um . . . . uh . . . . . . . . it's come to my attention that all that stuff about Dictator Chimpy and the Federal government and its UNPRECEDENTED violation of civil rights and civil liberties by rounding up tens of thousands of Muslims - men, women, children, US citizens - and putting them into concentration camps - I mean, "relocation" camps - , with no charges whatsoever, was, um . . . uh, . . . a little off the mark on a few of the . . ., uh . . . , little details. Actually, it wasn't Muslims, it was, uh . . . Japanese. And it wasn't, actually, uh . . .technically, uh . . . all that recent, it was, like, during World War II, after Pearl Harbor. And it wasn't, uh . . the Chimpster and a same-party rubber-stamp Rethuglican Congress that did it, it was, uh . . . FDR and his War Department , plus a same-party rubber-stamp Democratic congress that, uh . . . kinda sorta went along with it, I guess. So . . . , uh . . . ., um . . . . . . uh . . . . Never mind.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:43:21 PM EST
    Well... With such compelling logic it's no wonder so many people purportedly voted for bush.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:13:12 PM EST
    I must have missed something. Did Jeralyn announce a contest for posting the most words without making a coherent point?

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:18:58 PM EST
    Must be something about wasting lefties bandwith. A siege of babble.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:23:11 PM EST
    It's just 'another point of view worth debating' as valid as any other. No? Maybe a Dale Carnegie course in how to win friends and influence people will help?

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:28:00 PM EST
    On second thoughts, I should have realized that meaningless posts are to be expected from someone whose nickname is based on a song with meaningless lyrics -- Joy To The World, by Three Dog Night: Jeremiah was a bullfrog Was a good friend of mine I never understood a single word he said But I helped him a-drink his wine And he always had some mighty fine wine Singin'...
    Joy to the world All the boys and girls now Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me
    If I were the king of the world Tell you what I'd do I'd throw away the cars and the bars and the war Make sweet love to you Sing it now...
    Joy to the world All the boys and girls Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me
    You know I love the ladies Love to have my fun I'm a high life flyer and a rainbow rider A straight shootin' son-of-a-gun I said a straight shootin' son-of-a-gun
    Joy to the world All the boys and girls Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me
    (repeat 6 times)
    (fading) Joy to the world All the boys and girls ...


    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:32:58 PM EST
    Masterpieces of musical and lyrical genius they were. Every verse busting at the seams with timeless truths and deep philosophical meaning. :-P

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#59)
    by roger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:35:06 PM EST
    Cymro, That was my first concert. I have since moved into more adult music, so I dont listen to Jeremiah. Oh, or the song either...

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:37:56 PM EST
    Mah country rite 'er rong! Least thas' WOT they tole me.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:29:47 PM EST
    "Mah country rite 'er rong! Least thas' WOT they tole me." Nah, nah, you've got it all wrong. If you've going to post on a moonbat site to other moonbat Common Taters, you've got to go with the moonbat version of mindless rote echo-chamber reinforced drivel: "Bush wants to destroy our freedoms." "Bush wants to make this country into a dictatorship" "Bush wants to end all our civil liberties" "Bush is fiendishly evil." Repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Until you instinctively and unequivocally accept it as the incontrovertible truth. Brook no dissent. Looks like most of the folks on this site have it down pat.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:02:00 AM EST
    I received an email regarding the flags over the coffins of our troops and what each fold meant, and at the end of this long-winded email was a plug that the Supreme Court should read it before they allow "God" to be taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance. My poor mother. She just forwarded it to me but I let her have it. To think the man who wrote the first amendment to the Bill of Rights anniversary of his death was the following day! Only 180 years ago, and Americans have no idea what a gift that 1st Amendment is to them. I told my mother the Supreme Court would never decide such a ridiculous case because the 1st Amendment which is based on common sense explains that no one can make a law telling anyone else what to believe spiritually. I suggested she tell the original sender to take a break from Fox News and this might solve her problems.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:06:26 AM EST
    Oh and I also pointed out that this issue about the Pledge Police being assigned to bust people once the Supreme Court makes its ruling was nothing but propaganda intended to keep people from the real issue that they SHOULD BE CONCERNING THEMSELVES WITH...WHICH IS WHAT IS UNDERNEATH ALL THOSE GODDAMNED FLAGS! NOTICE THAT AMERICA!

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:57:45 AM EST
    You only get one chance to make a good first impression. Tain't fair I know, Jeremiah, but that's the way it is. Try Free Republic or Powerline or RedState. Maybe they'll be more forgiving, huh buddy?

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#65)
    by Sailor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 11:14:00 AM EST
    "Bush wants to make this country into a dictatorship" "Bush wants to end all our civil liberties"
    Well, he did say this
    "I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president." --as quoted in Bob Woodward's Bush at War
    and this:
    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
    and this:
    "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"


    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 11:33:20 AM EST
    edger, Well, like a blind squirrel finding the occasional nut, you've actually made a true statement there. And, unfortunately, you and other Common Taters on this site have indeed utterly failed in your chance to make a good first impression in terms of YOUR commentaries. I'd heard Jerelyn was a cut above the usual leftist site in terms of articulate and thoughtful commentary, and for the most part that's turned out to be the case (notwithstanding even she, unfortunately, seems to have drifted into the overwrought Chicken Little "our civil liberties have never been more threatened!" mode). But then it goes way downhill from there, when folks like you take over. Strip away the overwrought unsupported whining, complaining, rote robotic Bush-bashing and hand-wringing, and there's simply no there there. You in particular seem much better suited for commenting in the paranoid fever swamps of DailyKos and the Democratic Underground. If'n y'ketch mah drif' there, li'l feller.

    Re: A Hollow Feeling This Fourth of July (none / 0) (#67)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:41:09 PM EST
    If'n y'ketch mah drif' there, li'l feller. Well now... Your drift is pretty hard to miss in these here fevered swamps... as it is in most of the rest of the country. An' dontchoo fergit to have a nice life now, boy! Ya hear li'l buddy? ;-)