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Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in Parks

By Jeralyn, Section Social Justice
Posted on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:07:06 PM EST
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What an outrage! Las Vegas has made it a crime to give food to the homeless in city parks. Primarily aimed at soup kitchens, the law carries a penalty of up to six months in jail and a $1,000.00 fine.

In an effort to curb charity that is having unintended consequences, the City Council has made it illegal to give food to homeless people in city parks. Residents complained that the large numbers of homeless gathering in the parks make it impossible for others to use them, said city spokesman David Riggleman.

Not only that, but check out the definition of "homeless person."

The law defines a homeless person as an indigent "whom a reasonable ordinary person would believe to be entitled to apply for or receive assistance."

So the test is whether someone looks poor enough to be on welfare?

American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada lawyer Allen Lichtenstein said the lanuage makes the law unenforceable. "The ordinance is clearly unconstitutional and nonsensical," he said. "How are you going to know without a financial statement who's poor and who's not poor?" "It means they can discriminate based on the way people look," Lichtenstein said.

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    Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in Parks | 64 comments (64 topical)
    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:14:53 PM EST
    can you still feed the pigeons?

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:19:38 PM EST
    can you still feed the pigeons?
    Only the sleek, well-fed ones. Not the scrawny, scruffy ones. They may be just moulting, but you never know.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#3)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:25:32 PM EST
    The only pigeons in Vegas are in the casinos, they eat for free.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#4)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:27:00 PM EST
    The only pigeons in Vegas are in the casinos, they eat for free.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#5)
    by Johnny on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:30:58 PM EST
    This reminds me of the "smell test" legislation passed sometime ago, somewhere... Totally arbitrary in nature... Anything to jealously protect the command economy I guess. Jesus wept.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:39:15 PM EST
    Bad law, right idea. The homeless are mostly substance abusers who are doing nothing to help themselves, but some are temporarily homeless due to unfortunate events and deserve our help. We could end homelessness amongst the deserving if we didn't waste so much on the bums.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:43:16 PM EST
    Can you still feed the trolls?

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:51:32 PM EST
    Residents complained that the large numbers of homeless gathering in the parks make it impossible for others to use them
    That seems to be the residents problem caused by their own hang-ups. If I make people uncomfortable, does that mean I forfeit my freedom? "Impossible" my arse...they just don't like sharing space with people that make them uncomfortable. It's called freedom residents...get used to it. Besides...after a 12 hour gambling binge everybody looks homeless.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:52:14 PM EST
    The law defines a homeless person as an indigent "whom a reasonable ordinary person would believe to be entitled to apply for or receive assistance."
    So just who the heck is a reasonable ordinary person? Me?

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:55:31 PM EST
    Primarily aimed at soup kitchens,
    TL, this is a little misleading I think. I think the law is primarily aimed at mobile food kitchens who give food to homeless at the city parks. I think the mayor wants the homeless to go the standard, fixed-base food kitchens that are nowhere near the parks...

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#11)
    by Johnny on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:56:52 PM EST
    The homeless are mostly substance abusers who are doing nothing to help themselves,
    Have anything data to back that assertion up?
    but some are temporarily homeless due to unfortunate events and deserve our help.
    Hence we have yet another completely and utterly arbitrary definition of "needy".
    We could end homelessness amongst the deserving if we didn't waste so much on the bums.
    Funny, thats exactly the sentiment I hold as regards law enforcement, politics, and republicans. Again, completely and utterly arbitrary with absolutely no way to make a solid distinction between the "bums" and the "deserving". Or the smelly, can't forget it is illegal to be smelly in a library.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    I chased a (seemingly)homeless guy away from a scared young mother the other night. He was harassing her while she had a baby in her arms. He also had a six pack with him.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:02:07 PM EST
    Now if they only pass a law to get rid of all the illegals handing out porno on every corner of the strip....

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#14)
    by Punchy on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:02:39 PM EST
    Wow, nobody else caught this? T
    he law defines a homeless person as an indigent "whom a reasonable ordinary person would believe to be entitled to apply for or receive assistance."
    So they appear to be entitled to get assistance, but it's against the law to provide it!! So, if they look hungry, it's now illegal to help them out. Insane. I knew Vegas had some morality issues, but I didn't think they'd go this low.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    Johnny- it is impossible to write a law that will satisfy the ACLU, but there is a difference between someone who is "down on their luck" and a bum who doesn't want to do anything but drink.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:04:45 PM EST
    Join me in supporting the ACLU of Nevada? http://aclunv.org/supportus.htm I'm confident the ACLU will get this law struck down. If not, I pledge to perform civil disobedience by committing the "crime" of feeding people on my next Vegas visit.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#17)
    by Johnny on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:07:53 PM EST
    ohnny- it is impossible to write a law that will satisfy the ACLU, but there is a difference between someone who is "down on their luck" and a bum who doesn't want to do anything but drink.
    That sentence made me realize something else... I need a beer or two, or 40. But I have a home. So there. Kdog you are completely correct. It does make people feel uncomfortable, they feel uncomfortable facing the inevitable results of a capitalist driven economy. BB, I think we would be light years ahead getting all the republicans out of Vegas, send them back to SLC where hard line extremist right wingerism is a little more tolerated.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#18)
    by scribe on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:08:46 PM EST
    Stupid law. I didn't know they had parks in Vegas; such would seem to detract from that town's prinicipal purpose - fleecing out-of-towners of every last cent. Where I live (far from Vegas), there are a good dozen homeless living (or at least sleeping) in a beautiful park with a very scenic overlook. (and others in other parks around town) Monday morning while I was out walking the dog, one was showering up (he wore gym shorts) in a fountain-wading pool setup in the park. Live and let live - these folks have views from their benches that people pay thousands of dollars a month to get from behind glass. I once read a tourist in America was enthralled by the freedom here - so much so that he remarked that if one wanted to, one could live in the street and starve to death and no one would interfere in your exercise of freedom. Or one could engage in charity without fearing the law would penalize you. Neither seems to be the case any more (vis-a-vis the latter, look at the material support to terrists statutes - one need not know that the charity one gave to was a cutout front for an executive (not legislative)-designated terrist bunch). More freedoms gone.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:11:04 PM EST
    Kdog you are completely correct. It does make people feel uncomfortable, they feel uncomfortable facing the inevitable results of a capitalist driven economy.
    No we are facing alcoholics who could get off the streets with ANY effort at all. Most choose to be homeless.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#20)
    by Johnny on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:12:16 PM EST
    committing the "crime" of feeding people on my next Vegas visit.
    That is something I never thought I would read in print. It is now a crime to feed the hungry. If I were a christian, I would be questioning every last tenet of my belief system right now.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:13:08 PM EST
    Residents complained that the large numbers of homeless
    So instead of trying to solve the causes of homelessness they just want them out of sight. typical.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:14:24 PM EST
    Most choose to be homeless.
    nominee for dumbest quote of the day

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#23)
    by Johnny on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:15:02 PM EST
    No we are facing alcoholics who could get off the streets with ANY effort at all. Most choose to be homeless.
    Gotta link? Better yet, why the hell do you care if people live outside the system? Maybe they are happier there. Until it is a crime to be homeless (rapidly approaching I believe), there are going to be people who cannot, and never will be able to, fit into this misguided, impossible utopian dream of a middle class america. Get used to it.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#24)
    by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:17:41 PM EST
    No we are facing alcoholics who could get off the streets with ANY effort at all. Most choose to be homeless.
    Not all homeless are alcoholics. Not all alcoholics are homeless. The homeless are humans first and foremost. Many suffer from mental illness and need help. Bums are anyone who treats another human as anything less than that - human. All humans (even the homeless and mentally ill) deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. Or is this just the delusions of leftists?

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:23:30 PM EST
    Most choose to be homeless
    I don't know about most...but it's true some do. And in America....I believe you should have that right. This land is your land, this land is my land.... I gave a guy on the street a couple bucks the other night....I never in a million years thought such a thing could be a crime somewhere. Humanity as a crime...I'm flabbergasted.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:36:13 PM EST
    To tie-in with the drug raid thread...if someone decides to give out some sandwiches...does the SWAT team get called in?

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#27)
    by killer on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:42:14 PM EST
    Punchy- It sounds to me like: If they look like they deserve help, it is illegal to help. The law is written so you could feed all the drug addicts, but not the walking wounded. It's only illegal to help if the recieving party looks entitled.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:15:19 PM EST
    Gotta link?
    Sure At minimum wage in Nevada, with no state income tax, assuming 5% federal income tax(that is probably high), you would take home about $780/month. Yes that sucks, but you would have $280 left over for food etc. and you could get a part-time to supplement that.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#29)
    by James DiBenedetto on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:21:50 PM EST
    I think the mayor wants the homeless to go the standard, fixed-base food kitchens that are nowhere near the parks...
    I imagine that what the mayor wants is for the homeless to go somewhere far from Las Vegas, seeing as how every dollar that is given to a homeless person is one less dollar that can go into a slot machine; and that the sight of homeless people probably makes tourists who see them less likely to want to gamble or see insanely overpriced shows and attractions (either out of guilt, or in a "there but for the grace of God go I" kind of way)

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#30)
    by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:24:50 PM EST
    Granola, First of all, your link tells does not address your claim that homeless people are alcohlics and that they choose to be homeless 2nd of all, Your math fails to take into account other expenses - clothing for work, Hygeine products, transportation, health care, etc. Third, take a look at your check and look at the deductions. There are others besides federal, the largest being FICA which is 7%. Finally, Even minimum wage jobs have to be earned and there are going to be individuals who are less qualified than other applicants.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#31)
    by JSN on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:34:06 PM EST
    We volunteered on occasion on weekend at a homeless shelter in Portland OR. They served temporary homeless families for the most part (example a roofer who tools had been stolen and had to use the rent money to replace his tools). They were working poor people who were one paycheck away from disaster. What bothered them and us was they they were treated like criminals.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:41:08 PM EST
    Granola, First of all, your link tells does not address your claim that homeless people are alcohlics and that they choose to be homeless.
    Do I really have to prove to you that they are alcoholics? My math shows how they could choose to not be homeless
    2nd of all, Your math fails to take into account other expenses - clothing for work, Hygeine products, transportation, health care, etc.
    What is their income now? Do they have dollar stores and thrift shops in Vegas? My wife shops at those places frequently and she is picky. (insert husband joke here)A monthly bus pass is $20.
    Third, take a look at your check and look at the deductions. There are others besides federal, the largest being FICA which is 7%.
    Actually it is 7.65% and I included that.
    Finally, Even minimum wage jobs have to be earned and there are going to be individuals who are less qualified than other applicants.
    There is something SERIOUSLY wrong(like you are an alcoholic) with you if you can't land a minimum wage job.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:45:01 PM EST
    Posted by jsn July 21, 2006 03:34 PM We volunteered on occasion on weekend at a homeless shelter in Portland OR. They served temporary homeless families for the most part (example a roofer who tools had been stolen and had to use the rent money to replace his tools). They were working poor people who were one paycheck away from disaster. What bothered them and us was they they were treated like criminals.
    Those are exactly the kind of people that our charity should go to. Our social safety net could be stronger if it was temporary,as intended, rather than a way of life.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:57:45 PM EST
    Like I said they are drunks

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:00:49 PM EST
    Homeless people in rags feeding at soup kitchens. One glimpse at what the future may hold for the gambling tourists may send them home without spending a dime. The city council came up with a great solution. Dress up the homeless to make them look rich and gussy up the food trucks. Much less scary look into the future for the gamblers. Everyone wins. Makes sense. The city will obviously provide the fancy clothes upscale food trucks. Somehow that part of the plan was inadvertently left out of the press release. I say fire the PR guy.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#36)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:03:54 PM EST
    We don't need statistics to know many homeless people have mental illness and substance abuse problems. A generation ago many of them would have been committed to some human warehouse they called a mental hospital and given the drugs the government decided they needed. That approach kept them out of sight but the confinement it was a denial of the civil liberties, the conditions were usually deplorable AND it's a very expensive approach. Some people cannot adapt to the norm, but unless one is an actual danger to themselves or others it is wrong to institutionalize them. Other than "crimes" which basically define their existence-- vagancy, loitering, punlic intoxication, etc.-- I'd bet the homeless commit fewer crimes per capita than many segments of society with homes. Isn't it better to give them food, clothes (and a bed if they want one) and let them live their lives free. Criminaliziung feeding people just can't be right. (Although in my town it is illegal to feed pigeons and i think it carries a $50 fine. Although I've never heard of it being enforced there are don't feed the pigeon signs in every park.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#37)
    by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:06:18 PM EST
    Granola, I don't want to insult you, but you are making it extremely hard to not question your intelligence. Actually, you most likely are above average intelligence, but extremely cold hearted and irrational in your thinking. I'm looking for percentages of homeless and percentages of non homeless who are alcoholic. That would be something to compare. I will grant you that it is likely that a high percentage of chronic homeless suffer from alcoholism. But the medical community considers alcoholism a disease not a choice last I heard. Temporary homeless is another issue and this thread is about offering assistance to any homeless in city parks in las vegas.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:18:28 PM EST
    Last I checked drunks are still human and require food. No one is forcing you to give them food Granola...just don't criminalize me if I choose to. Alcoholism is a nasty thing, I've seen it up close. I've got no problem giving a drunk a meal on the off chance it will keep him alive with a chance to turn things around. I learned that from my old man who battled and beat alcoholism for most of his life...he brought one of the local drunks home with him every Christmas Eve for a meal. Some of those guys slept in the *gasp* park. Hell, I've spent a few nights there, it's not something to be so petrified over. They're people. I do somewhat agree with you in that no able-bodied sane adult should be on the dole forever. But I don't think many, if any, are. The small minority of homeless who choose that lifestyle get by on their own, without state assistance.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:20:49 PM EST
    I will grant you that it is likely that a high percentage of chronic homeless suffer from alcoholism. But the medical community considers alcoholism a disease not a choice last I heard.
    OK fair enough. Let's at least adrress the issue for what it is rather than pretend that it is mostly these people: I am an abused wife who left unspeakable terror at home. I am homeless. I am a steel mill worker. The mill shut down, and I couldn't find work for a long while after that. I am homeless. I am a runaway girl. I left home because of family problems. Now I'm trying to cope on the streets. I am homeless. I have an 8 year degree in medicine. I had my own practice. Then it happened: I lost a malpractice suit, and my business went downhill, my wife divorced me, took the kids and the house. I have nothing left worth working for. I am homeless. If it is your opinion that we should feed alcoholics in parks then I respect that. I might even agree with you, but don't try to dress up the issue with smokescreens I am not coldhearted at all, but I have seen a lot of abusive homeless people. I had a guy curse at me when I tried to give him food. (fresh Arby's roast beef sandwiches) he only wanted money for booze.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#40)
    by JSN on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:23:54 PM EST
    In 2000 Eric Newhouse won the Pulizer for a series of articles on alcohol. He wrote a book "Alcohol from Cradle to Grave" based on that series. If you want to find out why there is nothing simple about alcoholism read his book.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#41)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:26:27 PM EST
    The law defines a homeless person as an indigent "whom a reasonable ordinary person would believe to be entitled to apply for or receive assistance." Assuming it isn't ruled void, I can't wait to see the trial of this law. what an uplifting experience for a prosecutor to use human beings as demonstrative exhibits and argue any reasonable person would believe that "someone like that" has to be entitled to apply for or receive public assistance. Wouldn't EVERYONE be entitled to APPLY for assistance? You might not be eligible to receive it but as long as you tell the truth on the application I can't see how you are not entitled to submit it. So, if I give my daughter an ice cream cone at the park have I broke the law? I think an overbroadness challenge is almost a slam dunk.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:28:02 PM EST
    As I said before- it is a bad law.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#43)
    by chuckj on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:52:36 PM EST
    I've always wrestled with a question of: what is helping the homeless? My personal belief, as a Christian man, is to help all people, especially the poor. But is giving handouts helping or hurting. I've given money and food to homeless people, and have fealt good about it, but later guilty for perpetuating their condition. I met a guy who wouldn't take food. I've met a few who were really abusive (verbally). Almost all I've met were either alcoholics or mentally ill, or both. I have sympathy for the ill, and think they need to be institutionalized at taxpayer expense, but the alcoholics are another story. I still give to the poor, but go through cycles of gift giving and regret. Giving almost has to be done on an individual basis, but like someone suggested, it would take a financial statement to find out who to give to. I also give to Goodwill and AmVets because they reward homeless and poor who are willing to work. But even those organizations have pitfalls. This is a very difficult issue.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:59:21 PM EST
    chuckj...I go by the general rule that if the person looks harder up than me I'll help them out. Not an exact science, but if I get scammed I get scammed. It still feels right. I never give to abusive agressive panhandlers.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:07:38 PM EST
    Hey! I don't want to end homelessness. I want to end hunger. I want to end disease. I want to end forcing the mentally ill to wander the streets without care. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HOMELESSNESS. I want to end crime in the parks. I want to end public littering in the parks. WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO LIVE IN AN APARTMENT, OR A HOUSE, OR IN ONE PLACE? Damnit, I don't think we should be hiring illegals, but damnit, remember how it used to be okay to live on CASH? And to hire hobos for the day for cash? And to hire them to work in your kitchen, or do some chores, or work on a project, for CASH? I mean, we are killing off the David Banners, and the Kwai Chang Caines, and most of the fiction of James Cain. But more seriously, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION that says I must live in an apartment or a house or a fixed location and that I cannot live on cash and in a park as long as I am not disturbing other people. The park is my home. Get off my lawn!

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:09:23 PM EST
    If people need help, we should get them help. If people want to live on a park bench and can do that without creating a disturbance, I say more power to them. Sorry if I don't think we should all live in Stepford.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:21:02 PM EST
    Very very very well said J

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:31:31 PM EST
    The homeless are mostly substance abusers who are doing nothing to help themselves, but some are temporarily homeless due to unfortunate events and deserve our help. We could end homelessness amongst the deserving if we didn't waste so much on the bums.
    You have it backwards. We could do all we needed to do to help the deserving if we didn't mind helping the bums, too. An amazing percentage of our social services budgets goes to figuring out ways to deny aid to the "undeserving". You can feed an awful lot of bums for the salary of one bureaucrat. And, yeah, a lot of them are mentally ill. What should we do with them? We used to lock them up in asylums; Dickensian human warehouses. Cruel, dehumanizing (both for the "patients" and the guards), and expensive.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:43:24 PM EST
    They are drunks Not always, but, everyone knows drunks use homeless people as human shields. The elimination of all of them is tragic but not a crime.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:59:17 PM EST
    NYC has a "don't give money to panhandlers in subways" policy. I don't give money to panhandlers, but I don't like being told (including by ads) to not do so.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#51)
    by JSN on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:09:36 PM EST
    If you have a homeless shelter with 10 beds and two beds are used by two chronic homeless persons for the entire year and the other eight beds are used by temporary homeless persons for an average a week each. The shelter serves 418 persons in a year but two persons use 20% of the beds. The temporary homeless look very ordinary and the chronic homeless do not and they contol the public image of homelessness. I don't know of anyone who has a much luck in helping the chronic homeless get out of their rut.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:40:20 PM EST
    Your shocked by this? It is Vegas after all, the land of anything goes.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#53)
    by JSN on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:50:41 PM EST
    Are the mobile "soup kitchens" going to park where the homeless are already located or are they attracting the homeless to the park? In some communities they have mobile mental health clinics to serve mentally ill homeless persons. It does not solve the problem of being homeless but it does help keep them out of jail.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:20:44 PM EST
    Hello All, I am a former drunk, a recovered alcoholic. My home is now paid for-- I haven't had a drink for 24 years. Whereas I realize that those of you who have not been down the road of alcoholism probably can't really imagine what it's like, I have to say that getting sober was the hardest thing -bar none- that I have ever done in my life. And when I read comments like
    "No we are facing alcoholics who could get off the streets with ANY effort at all. Most choose to be homeless."
    I know I am reading the thoughts of someone who has not got a clue about the disease and the pernicious hold it has on those who suffer from it. That's understandable I suppose. Of the hundreds (thousands?) of recovering alcoholics I have met and worked with over the years I have known of only one who at one point had claimed that he was homeless by choice-- he was being interviewed by a tv news crew that was doing a story on the homeless. When I met him he was sober and no longer homeless and he confessed that his fierce pride and broken heart had driven him to lie to the reporter because he couldn't acknowledge his powerlessness and hopelessness to "all those people" (in tv land).

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#55)
    by Aaron on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:31:02 PM EST
    We went through this type of thing here in Fort Lauderdale back in the mid-90s. There was a serious homeless problem downtown where I resided. Most of these people lived in the park, the city had for some years designated a specific area near Holiday Park. It was just a little fenced-in lot, eventually they close it off and built a homeless tent shelter across from the bus station away from the more affluent part of town. Containment became the new policy, containing them to that part of town. Our property values went up in a matter of weeks in Victoria Park. Such is the way of the world. Eventually that tent shelter was done away with in favor of a halfway house for women and children only, I don't know what happened to all the men. We have a nationally recognized library in downtown Fort Lauderdale. I used to feel sorry for the library employees because the homeless people spent their afternoons lounging around the numerous floors among the art and literary exhibits, to escape the summer heat. The smell was so ungodly that it was scary, to the point where they had to post signs prohibiting offensive odor, I kid you not. Some may not be aware, but body odor can take on a life of its own becoming so powerful that it can jump on to you from another person, like some evil pall, and you won't be able to wash the smell out of your clothes, you'll have to burn them. I kid you not. I always used to double up on my deodorant when I went to the library, not only to keep from violating the library rules, but to ward off those ghostlike malodorous spirits which once haunted the place. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but around here homeless people are about the equivalent of untouchables, much as you would find in India. I believe the Fort Lauderdale PD got sued more than once for harassing them. I remember the ACLU being down here to stand up for them. At one point some of our police officials used the homeless to push their arrest numbers up, apparently in the hopes of squeezing more money out of the state by fudging the federally reported numbers. They got busted for that. Homeless people still don't dare hang around the beaches, that is strictly verboten in this county and Dade County as well. You won't find homeless people sleeping on the beaches around here, not if the municipalities have anything to say about it. This is a tourist economy after all. It's almost like it was back in the day for Black people in Florida, who once dared not be found on the beach after sundown. Christ you got nothing and no place to go, and you can't even walk down to the beach and sleep under the stars without some hostile cop poking you with his tonfa. That's one of the things that got law enforcement in trouble. Eventually the police just change their tactics and started heading them off before they could make it over the bridges to the beach. Down in Miami, the cop used to take their paddy wagons down to the beach and load up the homeless people and drive them 10 or 20 miles west, and drop them off. The city didn't like the poor smelly wretches molesting the tourists. It would take em' a couple of days to make their way back and this cycle would repeat itself. I don't know if Metro-Dade still does this, they probably do, at least when no one's looking.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#56)
    by Jo Fish on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:59:09 PM EST
    Interesting discussion. If I have not been EPU'd here, I'd like to blogwhore for a minute to a post I did three or so years ago about something they were doing in Vegas then. This was what they were doing as of April, 2003 Basically, it was a "toss 'em out NOW!" program. Either it failed, or this "new and improved" ordinance is the next step for the LV city council.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:53:13 PM EST
    Mr. Anderson, the person who wrote the idiotic comment that the homeless are drunks is a troll here, please disregard him. S/he does not represent the views of TalkLeft or 98% of those who comment here. Granola, you are limited to four comments a day.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#58)
    by jen on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 06:25:08 AM EST
    hey, Aaron, What if the police had rounded up the homless, showered them, washed their chlothes (put that prison laundry to use!), and then let them go? That would have.. cleared the air..

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 08:50:29 AM EST
    It's still legal to smell I think...if not than I need to lobby for the prohibition of perfume and cologne...that stuff makes me sick.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 07:29:33 PM EST
    TL- so sorry for expressing opinions and posting related FACTS that differ from your own. I sometimes forget that the Left is so closed minded.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 10:55:35 AM EST
    as a person who actually lives in las vegas and near a park i applaud the city council. the media and all the bleeding hearts have been trying to turn the decision into a circus and they are totally missing the real facts. the facts are that feeding the homeless in a park is totally innapropriate and unacceptable. besides the sanitation issues from all the trash left behind, it does nothing to help them. there are numerous places that are equipped to properly feed the homeless and at the same time provide other much needed services to them if they require. the law that was passed is only to stop groups from totally taking over a neighborhood park...the key word is neighborhood.The law says no feedings of over 25 or more without a permit...i have to get a permit if i have a company picnic the deposit helps to insure that i clean up the area if i want my money back..so if an organization wants to have a large feeding in a park then what makes them so different from me a tax payer and property owner that they shouldn`t have to get a permit also. a park in a neighborhood is not the proper place to help the homeless. if your group wants to help then get with the numerous shelters and outreach centers and feed and help the homeless where it will do the most good, not in a park in a middle class neighborhood where people and children go for recreation,and nowhere near any other type of help services. the really funny thing is that the people who are making the most noise locally live no where near the area... why not have a homeless feeding in their neighborhood...oh that just wouldn`t be right would it ! by the way our church had a homeless feeding a month ago i volunteered, but we worked with one of the local shelters and did it the right way, and guess what not only were people fed but they all recieved dental assistance, health care and clothing.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#62)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:05:59 PM EST
    as a person who actually lives in las vegas and near a park i applaud the city council. the media and all the bleeding hearts
    next!

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:12:22 PM EST
    lvresident I'm inclined to agree with you. The law will be struck down due to sloppy drafting. But I don't have a problem with the idea. The park isn't the place to open a bar, a casino, an applebees, a strip club, a movie theater, OR a soup kitchen. The challenge is that they still want people to be able to have picnics there. The problem is how to draft a law that distinguishes between throwing a picnic where you give food to your friends and setting up a mobile soup kitchen in the middle of the park on a daily basis.

    Re: Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 25, 2006 at 12:37:32 PM EST
    I'm with you, hue.

    Las Vegas Criminalizes Feeding the Homeless in Parks | 64 comments (64 topical)