home

Civil War in Iraq

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 11:09:15 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

by TChris

With the ceasefire apparently holding (for now) in Lebanon, attention can return to Iraq, where gunfire has not ceased, and where daily killings are in fact increasing. The country is no longer at risk of a civil war; it's embroiled in one.

July appears to have been the deadliest month of the war for Iraqi civilians, according to figures from the Health Ministry and the Baghdad morgue, reinforcing criticism that the Baghdad security plan started in June by the new government has failed.

An average of more than 110 Iraqis were killed each day in July, according to the figures. ... The rising numbers suggested that sectarian violence is spiraling out of control, and seemed to bolster an assertion many senior Iraqi officials and American military analysts have made in recent months: that the country is already embroiled in a civil war, not just slipping toward one, and that the American-led forces are caught between Sunni Arab guerrillas and Shiite militias.

< NJ AG Resigns Over Ethics Flap | Boston Plane Diversion: Not Terror Related >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Civil War in Iraq | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#1)
    by Aaron on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:06:20 PM EST
    If civil war does come to Iraq, I think it's only fair that we invite the warring Sunni and Shi'ite factions to our country to have their war. Given the fact that we are completely responsible for any civil war which occurs between these parties, and that this eventuality would not have occurred without our meddling intervention in Iraq, it's the least we can do. If we can commandeer a sovereign country for our war on terror, it seems only fair that the Iraqis come here to have their little civil war, so that the people of Iraq can have a break from pestilence, strife and murder, and attempt to get their lives back on track. At the very least it's something of an equitable solution. I thought Albuquerque, New Mexico or Tucson, Arizona would be good choices as substitutes for Baghdad, since these cities and surrounding regions approximate the climate and topographic layout of Iraq. US citizens of New Mexico or Arizona, whichever state is chosen, will be given 48 hours to evacuate. After further evaluation, I think Texas should be included in the list of areas being considered for this war, Midland Texas specifically, can you tell where I'm going with this. Maybe we can squeeze them all on to the Crawford ranch. Dubya and his band of flunkies can be enlisted as the official referees. Just suit them up with some of that cheap disposable body armor and let the holy war begin.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#2)
    by desertswine on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:20:27 PM EST
    Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, spokesman for the American military in Iraq - "I don't think anyone could have anticipated the sectarian violence."

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:39:20 PM EST
    Mission accomplished.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:39:57 PM EST
    Mission accomplished.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#5)
    by soccerdad on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:45:15 PM EST
    I have become convinced that Bush and the neocons couldn't care less whether there is a civil war or not. In fact one has to wounder whether they are actively encouraging it by, for example, going into Sadr City the other day and shooting the place up. Then again it could just be stupidity. Since the goal of the neocons is to control the natural resources of Iraq, Iraq deaths have no bearing on whether the neocons are winning or losing. The gas and oil is still in the ground = success. Iraqis killing each other just means that when the neocons get serious about controlling Iraq there will be fewer people to kill and subjugate. People who say we are losing in Iraq because of all the violence are just being sane and rational, 2 characteristics not associated with the neocon mindset.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#6)
    by soccerdad on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:56:46 PM EST
    now Kirkuk may be in for some major violance now that people displaced by Sadaam are coming back and reclaiming their land

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 01:15:02 PM EST
    SD...I agree. I don't think this was the original plan, though. They actually thought they could turn Iraq into a "democracy", meaning a zone of unfettered capitalism, a true free market wonder of a client state that would be the envy of any historical empire. Then came the impolite intrusion of reality and the Paul "Walmarts and Burger Kings on Every Block" Bremer regime had to be replaced with the John "Operation Phoenix Redux" Negroponte slaughterhouse (hey remember when the wingnuts spouted off about Saddam's mass graves? Well we are sure replacing that legacy fast). So this is the end game, let 'em kill eachother while only a couple well connected companies get no bid contracts. Not nearly as profitable an enterprise as originally envisioned, but it will do for now. As always, U.S. military casualties are manageable to those running the show.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 01:17:46 PM EST
    Aaron.... Given the fact that we are completely responsible for any civil war which occurs between these parties, and that this eventuality would not have occurred without our meddling intervention in Iraq They've been killing each other for years... but don't let that get in the way of blaming GW for yet another thing he had little to do with! et al... Do all you guys beat yourselves with chains every day for all the guilt you carry around about the terrible country you live in?

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 01:24:36 PM EST
    BB: They've been killing each other for years... but don't let that get in the way of blaming GW for yet another thing he had little to do with! We eagerly await your links to evidence of a civil war in Iraq prior to bushco invading and destroying the social and service infrastructures of the country.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 03:27:58 PM EST
    EDL, SD, it's all going according to teh neocon playbook. They don't care who they kill in their quest for world domination ... even Americans.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 04:10:26 PM EST
    Sure glad Bush wasn't in any of my chemistry classes.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 09:20:15 PM EST
    I have been waiting for somebody anybody in the Traditional media to make the obvious connection between what is going on, on a monthy basis in Iraq and our own 9/11. Iraq is loosing more innocent people in just one month than we lost on sept 11,2001! What does that say about our total disdain for Iraqi lives. How can anyone with any sense of humanity accept the meme.
    Better over there than over here.
    .

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 10:08:24 PM EST
    cataloguing the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children of Kurdish and Shiite extraction who Saddam put into mass graves. If people prefer the prewar status quo which did, after all, prevent "civil war", please say so.
    Only difference between then and now is that we get to be an active part of the slaughter, i.e., 2,600 of our people dead and counting.
    If the US contributed to creating Saddam in the eighties, as some have said, surely we have a special responsibility ro remove him.
    Mission accomplished. So why are we still there?

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 10:17:34 AM EST
    edger... await your links to evidence of a civil war in Iraq prior to bushco invading I never said a word about "Civil war" What I said was...Muslims (shi'ite vs sunni) have been killing each other for years... Long before GW was even born! Sailor... They don't care who they kill in their quest for world domination ... Yeah..."WE" want to dominate the world... the Muslims (even though they have said that's their goal) shouldn't be taken seriously! You go ahead and worry about the right...LMAO!

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 10:56:55 AM EST
    Yeah..."WE" want to dominate the world... the Muslims (even though they have said that's their goal) shouldn't be taken seriously!
    show links where muslims say they want to dominate the world.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#17)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 12:48:25 PM EST
    In all, the investigators have excavated nine mass graves -- from among the more than 200 scattered around the country containing, by some estimates, tens of thousands of victims -- and have completed more than 330 files.
    From the NYT. To date they have found 330 files. They estimate tens of thousands but have yet to find conclusive evidence other than reported 200 mass graves. They found 123 dead in a mass grave, extrapolated out that is 22,000 dead not hundreds of thousands. Many of these were as a result of the Kurdish uprising and the Iran war. I am anxious to see the body count when all is said and done. 5 would be unacceptable, but exaggerating to the tunes of hundreds of thousands is also horsepucky....

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#18)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:04:47 PM EST
    Seems to be various opinions on Saddam's killings... From the NYT:
    It is also preparing files on Saddam's brutal suppression of the Shiite uprising across southern Iraq at the end of the first Gulf war in early 1991. At least 100,000 Shiites, and possibly twice that number, died, according to court officials.
    At least 182,000 persons from Kurdistan were killed by the Iraqi government during the 1970s and 1980s.


    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:05:38 PM EST
    There is just as much money being made right now with the reckage of Iraq and Lebanon, contracts to rebuild them, armaments tio destroy them, "defense" expenditures to allow us to do all of this. It is all part of what Eisenhower dubbed the "military industrial complex" and is now completely out of hand. The systematic withdrawal of American troops from everywhere must start right now. Jackie

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    There is just as much money being made right now with the reckage of Iraq and Lebanon, contracts to rebuild them, armaments tio destroy them, "defense" expenditures to allow us to do all of this. It is all part of what Eisenhower dubbed the "military industrial complex" and is now completely out of hand. The systematic withdrawal of American troops from everywhere must start right now. Jackie

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    There is just as much money being made right now with the reckage of Iraq and Lebanon, contracts to rebuild them, armaments tio destroy them, "defense" expenditures to allow us to do all of this. It is all part of what Eisenhower dubbed the "military industrial complex" and is now completely out of hand. The systematic withdrawal of American troops from everywhere must start right now. Jackie

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:30:39 PM EST
    Hrwatch has been reporting those numbers for years and I trust HRwatch. Unfortunately, the numbers they are finding are no where near consistent with the claims of the Kurds and Iraqis interviewed by Hrwatch. It is still a war zone and exhumation has to be darned near impossible. The US reported 300,000 or so and I am interested to know what the actual number is and how many fell in the uprisings against Husseins tyranny. he had a right to defend his government militarily although I think we can agree that he did it unlawfully by killing innocents. How are things SUO>?????

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:38:56 PM EST
    There seems to be a bit of a dispute about some of the chemical mass deaths having actually been committed by the iranians during their little war (you remember, the one where we sold saddam the arms and checmicals)

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:46:02 PM EST
    All good Jlv, thanks for asking. Just getting a little tired of all the fighting...

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 02:50:07 PM EST
    Yeah me too. The 4 weeks off really helped. I have a pretty heavy travel schedule over the next few weeks and that will help also. My mother inlaw is in town this week helping out with the newborn and i am finally sleeping again. I will be glad when the little bugger is sleeping all night.........

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#26)
    by Lww on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 04:38:43 PM EST
    Jlvngstn, congrats on the baby! Do you worry about the buggers future? Can't see a rosy future in the buggers' lives.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#27)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 11:19:59 PM EST
    Jlvngstn, Babies often wake up at night and cry a bit, then fall back to sleep (sometimes the sound is reassuring, with the SIDS threat). When the time comes (not for newborns) that you feel the baby should be sleeping through the night, try to avoid jumping up every time you hear crying at 1 or 4 in the morning. Give it a couple of minutes (by the clock) and see if the baby doesn't quiet back down. It gets them used to sleeping through. It's tough. The first few times, the baby expects a response, and you feel bad not getting up. But if the baby is healthy (no ongoing colds, no colic), don't be afraid to let him or her cry just a bit and then get tired.

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Aug 18, 2006 at 08:38:20 AM EST
    Che- this is our fourth and he is by far the best sleeper, on some nights he will go 7 hours before waking (he is 4 weeks old). On those nights i still wake up after 4 hours and check on him just to make sure he is breathing. The first 3 were not "sleepers", in fact the one before this one was up every 2.5-3 hours and it was super duper hard. I go to bed usually at 9 and am up at 5:30 and with the new addition the one or two wake up calls just throws me off the rest of the day. My wife and I split them but I love my sleep! He has gained 2 pounds in 4 weeks and at this pace he should hit 12 pounds at 12-14 weeks and we can start sleep training, unless of course he slows down eating!

    Re: Civil War in Iraq (none / 0) (#29)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Aug 18, 2006 at 09:14:55 AM EST
    LWW : Hard question. Because I think between our disregard for the environment and foreign policy, our kids are going to grow up in a different world than we did. But being born here in the US is tantamount to winning the genetic lottery when compared with most of the world.

    Civil War in Iraq | 28 comments (28 topical)