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Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation

by TChris

TalkLeft has repeatedly told the story of Maher Arar, beginning with his arrest in October 2002 (coverage collected here). This post, praising Time Magazine in Canada for naming Arar Canada's Person of the Year, summarizes the story of Arar's secret deportation to a prison in Syria, where torture induced him to give a false confession that linked him to al Qaeda. Arar is walking proof that torture produces unreliable information. If the president were inclined to let facts influence his judgment, a meeting with Arar might convince him to back off on his petulent insistence that it's not worth interrogating suspected terrorists unless torture and abuse are available tools in the interrogation protocol.

Reuters reports the conclusions drawn at the end of Canada's official inquiry -- conclusions that have been obvious for some time:

Judge Dennis O'Connor, asked in 2004 to examine what had happened, said the Royal Canadian Mounted Police wrongly told U.S. authorities that Arar was an Islamic extremist. "The provision of this inaccurate information ...[is] totally unacceptable'' and guaranteed the United States would treat Arar as a serious threat, O'Connor said. "I am able to say categorically that there is no evidence to indicate that Mr Arar has committed any offense or that his activities constitute a threat to the security of Canada.''

While Judge O'Connor blamed the RCMP for getting the facts wrong, he found no evidence that Canada played a role in the American decision to deport Arar. The American authorities, of course, declined to respond to O'Connor's questions. The administration refuses to be accountable to Congress; it's no surprise that it has no interest in furthering a Canadian investigation into the mistreatment of Arar.

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    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 06:20:21 PM EST
    The noose is tightening ever so slowly.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 07:53:35 PM EST
    Lav - On who? The article notes it was the Cannucks who made the wrong call. What did they, or you, think would happen? Your comment again reminds us that we have lots of BHAWs around.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#3)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 09:33:49 PM EST
    The article notes it was the Cannucks who made the wrong call. What did they, or you, think would happen?
    A real investigation, instead of a false confession as a result of torture? Naaah. Once someone is accused of terrorism, there is no further recourse.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 10:02:51 PM EST
    Jimaka: Yeah, they trusted us. I'm guessing they won't make that mistake again. Nor will many others. No idea what a BHAW is; enlighten me.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#4)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 10:14:30 PM EST
    in a way, i suppose i should be comforted by the knowledge that even the canadians screw up. somehow, that's small comfort.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 12:17:54 AM EST
    It's the opposite of PPJ, who is a BAK all the way, except when he offers a mild criticism of Bushco domestic policy in approximately 2% of his postings.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 01:56:43 AM EST
    Lavocat, BHAW is Bush Hater At Work. Don't forget, he's a bit challenged. Since he cannot imagine anyone not agreeing with his hero's policies or methods or tactics, his limited understanding forces him to back himself into a psychological corner and decide that they must hate the man, instead. There was no thousand points of light. It's just the thousand mile stare. ;-) ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:00:06 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - Glad to know you take time to score my comments. That you are making things up doesn't bother you. Oh well. Nothing new. Of course some people have a life... et al - Perhaps you should try and use your memories. Arar was detained in immigration while changing planes on suspicion that he was a terrorist. The US then tried to send him to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him, in fact, said he was a terrorist, acording to this post. Now, you think he is a terrorist, the country that he is a naturalized citizen of, Canada, thinks he is a terrorist, and won't let him back in the country. But, he has not done anything in the US. So what to do? Let him into the US? Sure. That makes a lot of sense, eh? Hold him in GITMO? Well, you don't want that. So what to do? Well, he is also a citizen of Syria. Just send him there. If the Canadians don't want him, he is Syria's problem. You see, you guys are just BHAW. You know the facts, but you ignore them.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:10:07 AM EST
    edger writes:
    There was no thousand points of light. It's just the thousand mile stare. ;-)
    Your comment is, of course, a take off of the fact that infantrymen develop a "thousand yard" stare because they become focused on looking for the enemy and gun positions that can kill them. They get that way, dearest edger, defending your right to make fun of them. Enjoy the right, and may those with the 1000 yard stare always be successful.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#15)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:43:44 AM EST
    But, he has not done anything in the US. So what to do?
    (Raises hand) I know! Torture him in another country! (Because Jim can't think of any alternative.) Jim, what if he's innocent? How would we find out? Torture him until he says he didn't do it? That always works.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:51:15 AM EST
    The US then tried to send him to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him
    got links to that allegation?

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#17)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:03:29 AM EST
    Your comment is, of course, a take off of the fact that infantrymen develop a "thousand yard" stare because they become focused on looking for the enemy and gun positions that can kill them.
    Something you read in a book, Jim? Weren't you Naval Air?
    They get that way, dearest edger, defending your right to make fun of them.
    Because the NVA was really pissed if people made fun of GIs.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#18)
    by Al on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:14:25 AM EST
    Arar was detained in immigration while changing planes on suspicion that he was a terrorist. The US then tried to send him to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him, in fact, said he was a terrorist, acording to this post. Now, you think he is a terrorist, the country that he is a naturalized citizen of, Canada, thinks he is a terrorist, and won't let him back in the country. (PPJ)
    This is completely false. Arar was detained by US authorities at the border on his way back to Montreal, and deported to Syria before the Canadian authorities were notified. Here is the complete sequence of events. US representatives conveniently refused to appear at the inquiry. PPJ, this is a very serious attempt to mislead the readers. I expect you to correct yourself in another posting.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:37:39 AM EST
    Lavocat, BLOD - Bush Lover On Drugs

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:56:56 AM EST
    PPJ, this is a very serious attempt to mislead the readers. I expect you to correct yourself in another posting.
    Al don't know ppj very well, do he?

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:07:27 AM EST
    Arar was detained by US authorities at the border on his way back to Montreal, and deported to Syria before the Canadian authorities were notified.
    But in pee pee's frozen heart It's OK When We Do It. ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#23)
    by The Heretik on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:54:38 AM EST
    Terror or error will be defeated one wrong man at a time.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:55:35 AM EST
    Thanks for the info. Calling me a BHAW is far too kind. I have this thing about war criminals - I think they should all die slow, painful deaths; preferably in full public view, while dangling from the end of a rope. As far as I'm concerned, you can paint a target on the mutha's head and stick a fork in him, baby, cuz he is DONE. BHAW, I like that. Perhaps it should be my new pseudonym!? Or maybe WMD (for War criminals Must Die).

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:15:07 AM EST
    Well said, Heretik! Check the statue in the centre of the picture on this page... ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 12:32:40 PM EST
    PPJ, this is a very serious attempt to mislead the readers. I expect you to correct yourself in another posting. There is only one way to redeem oneself when caught in a blatant lie. Children have difficulty doing it because it means taking responsibility. Bush won't do it. He probably is emotionally incapable of doing it. But his supporters and apologists can do it though. Most of them, anyway. It means admitting mistakes promptly, and not crying over spilled milk. It is something most people learn how to do at some point while growing up. And it means being adult about it.... ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 01:15:05 PM EST
    Al - You wrote:
    This is completely false. Arar was detained by US authorities at the border on his way back to Montreal, and deported to Syria before the Canadian authorities were notified.
    Here is what your link said:
    On September 26, 2002, during a stopover in New York, en route from Tunis to Montreal, Arar was detained by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service and, despite carrying a Canadian passport
    Here is what I wrote.
    Arar was detained in immigration while changing planes on suspicion that he was a terrorist.
    So, as I noted he was arrested in immigration while his plane was on a stopover on its way to Montreal. You know Al, you can get off and walk around, you just can't get outside the restricted areas. Or maybe he was trying to go through immigration to get to another flight. Or do you claim that during the stop in New York he rented a car and drove to the Canadian border? Your link also notes:
    The fact that US officials had a Canadian document in their possession was later widely interpreted as evidence of the participation by Canadian authorities in Arar's detention.
    Now the quote from the link, inserted sometime ago into Wikiepedia makes it sounds as if the Canadians had not been involved. Note the "interpreted." I believe that is where you get your claim that he was deported without input from Canada. However, we again have proof that this claim is wrong. From this post, we have this quote:
    Judge Dennis O'Connor, asked in 2004 to examine what had happened, said the Royal Canadian Mounted Police wrongly told U.S. authorities that Arar was an Islamic extremist
    Now Al, I think you are the one trying to misrepresent things. Care to argue the point further? Or will you just do the right thing and apologize?? RePack - Nope, just noting a well known fact. Lav, naw, I like BHAW. I think it defines you well. Now, if you want to issue threats, that's up to you. edger - Before calling for corrections you should be smart enough to determine who is wrong. But no surprise that you aren't. You're always eager to be on the edge, eh edger?? Sailor - Sail on dear Sailor, sail on! I just took Al's claim, chopped it up and served it back to him. Now. Want some cheese with that whine, dear boy??

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 01:22:34 PM EST
    Bush won't do it. He probably is emotionally incapable of doing it. But his supporters and apologists can do it though. Most of them, anyway......... some though, dig a pit for themselves so deep they can never climb out. It's similar to addiction. ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 01:37:27 PM EST
    Al, I hate to say I told you so ... but I told you so.
    The US then tried to send him to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him
    I call BS, (again, and that's what Al and Edger also objected to) provide links or STFU.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 02:16:07 PM EST
    The US then tried to send him to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him This is a lie. Canada did not refuse to take Arar. Canada could not refuse to take Arar. Arar is a Canadian Citizen. What they could, and did, refuse is being dictated to by the US. Canada refused to buckle to US pressure that Arar be incarcerated and charged by Canada if the US returned him to Canada. The US was attempting to dicate to Canada terms of Canada dealing with one of it's own citizens. Canada, in diplomatic language, basically told the US where to shove their demands. The US then 'renditioned' Arar to Syria. Maher Arar: Timeline (CBC)
    On a stopover in New York as he was returning to Canada from a vacation in Tunisia in September 2002, U.S. officials detained Arar, claiming he has links to al-Qaeda, and deported him to Syria, even though he was carrying a Canadian passport. When Arar returned to Canada more than a year later, he said he had been tortured during his incarceration and accused American officials of sending him to Syria knowing that they practise torture. June 1, 2005 Senator Pierre De Bané testifies that U.S. officials offered to return Arar to Canada on condition that he be incarcerated and charged. When Canada refused, the U.S. deported Arar to Syria. Nov. 5, 2003: Prime Minister Jean Chrétien tells the House of Commons that the U.S. government's deportation of a Canadian to Syria was "unacceptable," but he is adamant that he will not allow an independent inquiry into the case of Arar. He says his government has asked U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell for an explanation and that the government also wants to find out whether Canadian intelligence officials played a role in the deportation of Arar. Oct. 10, 2002: Canadian officials are informed Arar has been deported. Oct. 7 or 8, 2002: U.S. officials deport Arar to Syria. Sept. 26, 2002: Arar is detained by U.S. Immigration and Naturalization officials at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport while returning alone to Montreal from a family vacation in Tunisia. A citizen of both Canada and Syria, he is carrying a Canadian passport. American officials allege Arar has links to al-Qaeda and detain and question him.
    ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#33)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:11:41 PM EST
    Edger, Excellent clarification.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    Lavocat, BHAW is Bush Hater At Work. Don't forget, he's a bit challenged. Since he cannot imagine anyone not agreeing with his hero's policies or methods or tactics, his limited understanding forces him to back himself into a psychological corner and decide that they must hate the man, instead. There was no thousand points of light. It's just the thousand mile stare. ;-)

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#11)
    by cpinva on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    But, he has not done anything in the US. So what to do?
    jim, there are times your obliviousness amazes me. most times, it doesn't. the facts: 1. RCMP mistakenly gave incorrect data to U.S. authorities, identifying mr.arar as a possible terrorist. 2. after an investigation, it was determined that the RCMP, apparently, had no valid reason for making this determination. or so their judge says (who ya gonna trust, a judge, or your own lyin' eyes?), in his opinion. 3. unfortunately, this occurred after mr. arar, had been, um............relocated. yeah, that's it, he was relocated, to a warmer climate, with lots of, um...............recreational activities. damn, you're right jim, this guy should be thanking everyone involved, for giving him the rare opportunity for travel to foreign lands. or maybe, an apology is in order, and try to get the guy back where he was (if that's even possible) before all this happened. we call it "equity" in the U.S.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    That's the best you got, I guess...

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    Well, actually no, Pee pee. Just like the Moslem Radicals I meant exactly what I said. Thousand mile stare. It's that dreamy look you get when fantasizing about how everyone must just love the sight of your big, warm gun. ;-) But never fear. While you're busy with your plastic soldiers and fantasies about how the country can only survive because of guys like you, in reality the country will survive in spite of you. I admit though, that it would be a tad helpful if you would someday start demanding the rights you claim to be fighting for, instead of giving them up. ^^ OO

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    Al:
    PPJ, this is a very serious attempt to mislead the readers. I expect you to correct yourself in another posting.
    Al, like bush and co, all he has is lies and misleading propaganda. They mislead and avoid truth completely. It is poison to them.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    In effect, for all intents and purposes the US kidnapped a foreign national, a citizen of one of it's own allies, and shipped him off to Syria to be tortured. ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#32)
    by Al on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:34:42 PM EST
    PPJ, you stated that US authorities tried to send Mr. Arar to Canada, but Canada refused to receive Arar. As edger correctly points out, Canada cannot turn away a Canadian citizen. This is simply not true. What has been established by the Canadian inquiry is that the RCMP had passed along information to the US authorities previously, and as it turned out it was totally erroneous information. It is because the US already had this "information" about Arar that they stopped him in the first place. They did not stop him out of curiosity, and then ask Canada about him. Frankly, I didn't expect you to admit that the information you had given was false. I simply note that you are a liar, and a pretty bad one at that.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 06:03:00 AM EST
    Ah, the sweet smell of BS in the morning. I do love to discuss things with people who call me a "liar" when we are in a discussion, because it defines their capabilities to debate. BTW, Al. Are you willing to admit that your claim that Arar was arrested at the border was wrong? Well, it is. Now. Let me ask you Al, do you think that makes you a liar? I don't. I just think it makes you someone eager to make a point who doesn't read. Al and edger - Whether or not Canada had discussed Arar prior to his arrest in NY is really meaningless, except that if you are correct it shows that Canada thought he was a terrorist. Either way, he was arrested as described in the link you so thoughtfully provided. Now to your claim that Canada couldn't "refuse" him. What we do know is this. From TalkLeft 10/22/02
    "Canadian officials have said Mr. Arar was deported without benefit of a lawyer. The lawyer chosen by Mr. Arar on the advice of Canadian consular representatives didn't show up for the dual Syrian-Canadian citizen's immigration hearing Oct. 7 in New York, an official said
    So we here have proof that Canadian officals were involved and knew of the problem. As to why the lawyer he chose didn't show up, I do not know. No doubt he was teleported into the midle of the 4000th century by the evil K. Rove. But, we do know that Canadian officals were aware of what was going on, and did nothing. A simple note from them to us would have stopped this. But that didn't happen. Why not? And the answer is, they didn't want him. We have this:
    O'Connor also finds that the RCMP blocked Foreign Affairs from trying to get Arar returned to Canada...
    So I again show you that Canada, through the RCMP, and according to Canadian officals, prevented him from being sent to Canada. They thought he was a terrorist, and by letting the US send him to Syria, their problem was solved. And I again showed that Canadian officals knew he was going to be deported, yet did nothing beyond tell him to get a lawyer. I rather suspect Arar had that figured out. Good morning, loverlies. Have a nice, better informed day.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#36)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:22:01 AM EST
    ppj's TL link doesn't work and his other link proves he's wrong (p.s.ppj, linking to a blog that quotes an unnamed official isn't stating a fact):
    Oct. 10, 2002: Canadian officials are informed Arar has been deported.
    Oct. 7 or 8, 2002: U.S. officials deport Arar to Syria.
    Sept. 26, 2002: Arar is detained by U.S. Immigration and Naturalization officials
    Canada says they didn't know, that's what the commission found and yet, in the face of all the facts ppj refuses to believe in reality. The US had no right to deport him to syria where they knew and had arranged for him to be tortured. But ppj has proven over and over again that he ;loves torute and illegal dententions of innocent people.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#37)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:01:09 AM EST
    From the NYT:
    While the F.B.I. and the Mounted Police kept up their communications about Mr. Arar, Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs was not told about his detention for almost three days. Its officials, acting on calls from worried relatives, had been trying to find him. Similarly, American officials denied Mr. Arar's requests to speak with the Canadian Consulate in New York, a violation of international agreements.


    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:03:57 AM EST
    Sailor - Here is the link note that the TalkLeft post is a quotation from the Foreign Affairs Department. TalkLeft 10/22/02
    "The Foreign Affairs Department said Monday that it had just been informed by the Syrian government that Maher Arar had arrived from neighbouring Jordan. Spokeswoman Isabelle Savard said Canadian embassy officials were trying to meet with Mr. Arar, who works as a consultant in Ottawa. "She said she didn't know if he was under arrest and she had no details of when he left the U.S. or how he was sent to the Mideast." "Canadian officials have said Mr. Arar was deported without benefit of a lawyer. The lawyer chosen by Mr. Arar on the advice of Canadian consular representatives didn't show up for the dual Syrian-Canadian citizen's immigration hearing Oct. 7 in New York, an official said last week."
    The link is to TalkLeft, the source is the Canadian Foreign Affairs department. If you think Talk Left is incorrect in posting this link then you should take it up with Talk Left. You are merely playing games. The quote proves that Canada was involved prior to his deportation. Beyond that you make wild claims. Here is what the commision said, taken from my link to CBC News:
    In his main report, O'Connor says ... ...O'Connor also finds that the RCMP blocked Foreign Affairs from trying to get Arar returned to Canada earlier and omitted certain important facts about the Arar case when briefing senior government officials....
    Really, dear Sailor. You seem to be suffering from a bad case of denial Either that or you are incapable of admitting that you are wrong. All of this clearly proves that Canada was involved, didn't want anything to do with it and allowed their citizen to deported. They wouldn't even send a representative to the hearing on 10/7 although we know they had spoken with Ara. Try again, dear boy. Ta! Ta!

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#40)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:43:41 AM EST
    You are merely playing games. The quote proves that Canada was involved prior to his deportation.
    No, it doesn't. There are 2 parts to the pgraph. "Canadian officials have said Mr. Arar was deported without benefit of a lawyer. " And "The lawyer chosen by Mr. Arar on the advice of Canadian consular representatives didn't show up for the dual Syrian-Canadian citizen's immigration hearing Oct. 7 in New York, an official said last week."" An unnamed official with what agency is not apparent from the cherry picked excerpt. Got links to the article? Not that it matters much because this article was from 2 weeks after the incident. We now have the results of a complete investigation and it confirms, as all of us have linked to, that Arar was deported w/o Canada being notified.
    ..O'Connor also finds that the RCMP blocked Foreign Affairs from trying to get Arar returned to Canada earlier and omitted certain important facts about the Arar case when briefing senior government officials....
    Returned to Canada from Syria, you hater of the truth.! NYT:
    American officials denied Mr. Arar's requests to speak with the Canadian Consulate in New York, a violation of international agreements.
    From your link:
    Oct. 10, 2002: Canadian officials are informed Arar has been deported.
    Oct. 7 or 8, 2002: U.S. officials deport Arar to Syria.
    Why do you persisit in lying when even your links prove you wrong!?

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#41)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:47:12 AM EST
    Ok, This is getting serious I think. Pee pee, I can hear the wind whisting through your head from all the way out here on the coast. You're even starting to lie to yourself now. Here' a project for you. See if you can point out for me all the lies and evasions and strawmen and self delusions you packed into your last couple of posts here.. But this time you'll have to do it yourself. It's become glaringly obvious that it does not sink into your brain when others do it for you. We're not doing your work for you anymore. It's time for you to write the finals exams, and graduate, or not, on your own ability. It's sad, I know, but from here on in buddy, you're on your own. You either make it or you break it Pee pee, on your own capacity to stop lying to yourself. It's all up to you now. Personal responsibility, you know? Scary concept, yes, but it only hurts till you start, then all the pain magically vanishes and you wake up bathed in the warm glow of ice cold reality knowing that you, yes, even you, can handle it. IF you make the effort. If you don't, well... tough beans... everybody has to go sometime. I feel your pain Pee pee, but there is treatment for the issues you are facing, probably even in your town. Get started on it... if it's not already too late for you. Good luck buddy. Don't forget to write. Let us know how you make out. Or don't and say you did. Whatever... ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#42)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:54:33 AM EST
    Clarification of the above comment: Edger has been having problems posting and emailed me to ask if I would post it for him. I did delete the Sailor attribute but it still persisted, yet another example of the comments problems that continue. To conclude; the above comment was (and signed by) Edger, I merely posted it as a favor to him. Sorry for the confusion. - Sailor

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:59:54 AM EST
    Sailor - Can you understand nothing? Canadian offcials were in contact with him, according to the Canadian officals themselves, and he specified a lawyer he wanted. The lawyer didn't show up. So what happened? He got deported. Which he would have anyway. Now you have the link, which you can, I guess, read. It specifies the Canadian Foreign Affairs Department. So what's your problem, I mean besides just wanting to rant? And besides ignoring facts. My first comment was:
    Lav - On who? The article notes it was the Cannucks who made the wrong call. What did they, or you, think would happen?
    I stand by that. And if his own government wouldn't help him, guess what, we deported him. And if his own lawyer didn't show up, guess what, we deported him. Try to focus, dear Sailor. Focus. edger - Is that you? edger! Speak to Sailor. He needs you.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#45)
    by roy on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:49:04 AM EST
    You guys are fun to watch. The commission report is here. It's about a thousand pages of PDF love. Have fun. Here are some juicy bits:
    The RCMP's third communication of note with American authorities during Mr. Arar's detention in New York actually involved two phone calls between Corporal Rick Flewelling of CID and an FBI agent, the first on October 4 and the second on October 5. During the second call, the FBI agent said that the United States did not have enough information to charge Mr. Arar and was looking to remove him. He indicated that Mr. Arar had asked to be sent to Canada, and Washington wanted to know whether the RCMP could charge him or refuse him entry to Canada. The corporal responded that there was not enough evidence to charge Mr. Arar in Canada and that it was likely that he could not be refused entry to Canada.
    Canadian officials did not participate or acquiesce in the American decisions to detain Mr. Arar and remove him Syria. I have thoroughly reviewed all of the evidence relating to events both before and during Mr. Arar's detenion in New York, and there is no evidence that any Canadian authorities -- the RCMP, CSIS or others -- were complicit in those decisions.
    I conclude that, during Mr. Arar's detention in New York, DFAIT officials took reasonable steps to provide Mr. Arar with consular services, including addressing the possibility that he might be sent to Syria.
    A number of signs alerted consular officials to the possibility that the United States was considering sending Mr. Arar to Syria. ... The DFAIT officials considered these warning signs, but based on their past experience with individuals in "terrorism-related" cases and the information they had received, they did not believe that there was an imminent risk that Mr. Arar would be sent to Syria. Individuals in these types of cases had always been held for months. Moreover, the officials had never known the Americans to remove a Canadian citizen to a country other than Canada when the individual had requested to be sent to Canada and was travelling with Canadian documents, as was the case with Mr. Arar.
    At no time did the American authorities give consular officials any indication of their intention to send Mr. Arar to Syria. Canadian officials were caught completely off guard when they learned of Mr. Arar's fate.
    A point of note is that, five days before Mr. Arar's removal, consular officials assisted Mr. Arar and his family in retaining counsel to represent his legal interest in any American proceeding. ... The lawyer, who visited Mr. Arar on October 5 and also spoke with INS officials, did not raise the possibility of removal to Syria with Canadian consular officials or suggest any further action by Canadian officials to assist Mr. Arar. That lawyer declined an invitation to testify at the Inquiry. However, it appears that she, like the consular officials, was unaware that the American authorities were intending to remove Mr. Arar to Syria in the very sudden way that they did.
    Sorry for the length, but, c'mon guys, I know you have the Internet. It took two minutes to find these docs through Google. Another three to look at the press release for its selection of super-special quotes, and one more to search for those quotes in the full report and get to the good stuff.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#46)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 12:25:13 PM EST
    The US then tried to send him to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him
    you were wrong, admit it.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 01:22:16 PM EST
    Sailor - If you want to complain, complain to Al who wrote:
    Arar was detained by US authorities at the border on his way back to Montreal, and deported to Syria before the Canadian authorities were notified.
    Sailor - Tough luck.
    O'Connor also finds that the RCMP blocked Foreign Affairs from trying to get Arar returned to Canada..
    But hey! Who's gonna believe those Canadian judges and the CBC, eh? roy - Thank you.
    I conclude that, during Mr. Arar's detention in New York, DFAIT officials took reasonable steps to provide Mr. Arar with consular services, including addressing the possibility that he might be sent to Syria.
    So sorry, dearest Sailor. But the news is out, all over TalkLeft, that you've been beat, once again.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#48)
    by roy on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:21:37 PM EST
    Jim, You're welcome, but that quote actually contra... Know what? Never mind. I can't keep trying with you. Charity is a wonderful thing, but the human spirit can only take so much disappointment. It's like giving a sandwich to a crazy hobo and watching him blow his nose on it.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:20:29 PM EST
    Ok, This is getting serious I think. Pee pee, I can hear the wind whisting through your head from all the way out here on the coast. You're even starting to lie to yourself now. Here' a project for you. See if you can point out for me all the lies and evasions and strawmen and self delusions you packed into that one post. But this time you'll have to do it yourself. It's become glaringly obvious that it does not sink into your brain when others do it for you. That's it. We're not doing your work for you anymore. It's time for you to write the finals exams, and graduate, or not, on your own ability. It's sad, I know, but from here on in buddy, you're on your own. You either make it or you break it Pee pee, on your own capacity to stop lying to yourself. It's all up to you now. Personal responsibility, you know? Scary concept, yes, but it only hurts till you start, then all the pain magically vanishes and you wake up bathed in the warm glow of ice cold reality knowing that you, yes, even you, can handle it. IF you make the effort. If you don't, well... tough beans... everybody has to go sometime. I feel your pain Pee pee, but there is treatment for the issues you are facing, probably even in your town. Get started on it... if it's not already too late for you. Good luck buddy. Don't forget to write. Let us know how you make out. Or don't and say you did. Whatever... ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:20:29 PM EST
    I've been unable to post to this thread so I emailed my comment to Sailor and asked him to post it for me. It is my comment and is in my words only, not his. Thank you Sailor! ---edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 06:57:30 PM EST
    Thanks, Che... edger

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#49)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 07:50:33 PM EST
    well, ppj has admitted he is has no connection to reality, much less the truth, everything that everyone posted, (including his own posts)contradicted him, . TL, you've bannished trolls, limited chatterers, why do you still endorese ppj being allowed to sully this site? Read the history of this thread and please let us know why. Regards, Sailor.

    Re: Report: RCMP Botched Arar Investigation (none / 0) (#50)
    by Sailor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 08:31:04 AM EST
    Colin L. Powell, then the secretary of state, had also suggested publicly that the Canadians were complicit in the Syria deportation. But on Dec. 1, 2003, Mr. Powell called Bill Graham, the Canadian foreign minister, to say the United States had not consulted Canada about the decision.
    "I was mistaken," Mr. Powell told Mr. Graham, the report says.