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Friday Open Thread

While I'm still unpacking boxes from my move, and TChris is on the road, here's some space for you to discuss whatever's on your mind.

The test site for Scoop should be done today and I hope to be playing with it this weekend so that it can go live next week and we can be done with the comment problems on TalkLeft.

Thanks again for your patience...

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    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by egregious on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 09:33:57 AM EST
    Hi, Christy's having trouble pulling up the Libby decision from PACER. Can you help fdl with this? Thanks...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 10:16:00 AM EST
    Hugo Chavez....love him or hate him the guy's got stones. A lot has been made of his human rights record...I did a little digging and the domestic human rights record of Venezuela is about on a par with our domestic human rights record, imo...lots of room for improvement but not amongst the worst. Add in our foreign policy human rights record and I think they have us beat. Plus all the work he does for the poor. And whether his heating oil for the US poor plan is pandering or sincere concern for America's poor...it's public relations genius. I'd trade Bush for him in a heartbeat.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 10:24:27 AM EST
    kdog - Sigh..... You can't be that dumb.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 10:36:33 AM EST
    I am extremely disappointed in the Party and the Senate Democrats showing in the torture debate. The so-called compromise does nothing to save the high moral honor of the United States, and puts our troops, our diplomats and our citizens in danger. Unless Democratic Senators and candidates step forward to denounce the Bush administration's acceptance of torture, you will lose the votes and financial support of many many people. To reference the post to which this comment was originally attached, good poll numbers for Bob Casey indicate that he has both the opportunity and obligation to step up - with all Democrats - to denounce the torturous Bush administration and the Rubber Stamp Republicans in Congress.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by dutchfox on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 10:47:03 AM EST
    kdog and all, Tavis Smiley had Hugo Chavez on today's program.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 11:38:08 AM EST
    I must confess that I sometimes get all Misty Blue reading comments from the bushlickers :-) Maybe one of them can think of an answer to this question?
    When the inspiration is above my station
    Thoughts are melancholy and I let them pass
    I tend to view this nation
    Through the condensation
    On a dirty glass
    When the singer solemn was a bonnie laddie When she brushed his hair with a watered comb Then he could have dandered And he could have shown ye Seven hills like Rome If misty eyes can witness love and affection Why does the heart still resist What the hell is wrong with you? I've got eyes of misty blue All the things I want to do Are all I ever wanted to As the laddie grew and he looked aroung him At the thugs and rapists in their stolen suits louder beat the rhythm of his bloody heart Telling him to shoot Thoughtless competition Like a home-made prison Made him fix his vision On a certain fate What's the use in winning all the worlds creation If you won't create.
    ---edger

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by theologicus on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 11:53:46 AM EST
    From TPM Muckraker In their editorial pages this morning, two of the nation's most prominent daily papers wasted no time in decrying the White House-GOP "compromise" on a bill authorizing treatment of terror suspects the rest of the world considers inhumane. In editorials entitled "A Bad Bargain" (NYT) and "The Abuse Can Continue" (WaPo), the two papers minced no words declaring not only their opposition to the bill but its effect on the war on terror, global opinion, and history's judgement of the president. Washington Post:
    In effect, the agreement means that U.S. violations of international human rights law can continue as long as Mr. Bush is president, with Congress's tacit assent. If they do, America's standing in the world will continue to suffer, as will the fight against terrorism. . . . Mr. Bush will go down in history for his embrace of tortue and bear responsibility for the enormous damage he has caused.
    New York Times:
    [The bill] allows the president to declare any foreigner, anywhere, an 'illegal enemy combatant' using a dangerously broad definition, and detain him without any trial. It not only fails to deal with the fact that many of the Guantanamo detainees are not terrorists and will never be charged, but it also chokes off any judicial review. The Democrats have largely stood silent and allowed the trio of Republicans to do the lifting. It's time for them to either try to fix this bill or delay it until after the election. The American people expect their leaders to clean up this mess without endangering U.S. troops, eviscerating American standards of justice, or further harming the nation's severely damaged reputation.


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 12:22:03 PM EST
    Mr. Bush will go down in history for his embrace of tortue and bear responsibility for the enormous damage he has caused.
    WAPO is wrong. He already has...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 01:07:20 PM EST
    That Chavez held up and recommended a book written by one of America's most famous and eloquent dissenters, Noam Chomsky, well, I have to admit he got a few points for that. And it gives me a smidgen of hope, since I'd much rather have Chomsky at his ear than, say, Ann Coulter or the like. That said, Chavez's rumblings about extending his presidency for a quarter of a century (even with a vote) make me more than a little dubious. But our history of tampering and meddling with elections in foreign nations, and our own irregularities in recent elections, have left us with no right to claim any moral or political high-ground. And stories like this don't encourage me at all, though at least the machines give a printed record.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 01:27:57 PM EST
    Why is Bush even BOTHERING to try to refute this? He f*cking spoke the words days after 9/11, to everyone around the world -- you're either with us or you're with the terrorists. There was no middle ground. That was HIS VERY PITCH. What a pitiful excuse for a president. He embarrasses me every day. And his increasing mental instability and inability to face reality or even aknowledge serious error on his administration's part (hell, Cheney said he'd do it all again, as if he is wholly and almost pathologically incapable of learning from experience), it is simply too much. Stand up, be a man, you're the one who publicly issued the threat. And not just to Pakistan, but to everyone. As a drunken John Wayne said in a speech to a youth group once, "It's gettin' to be re-g*ddamn-diculous." Gettin' there and gone.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:41:55 PM EST
    Here's an interesting article about the upcoming War with Iran.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Peaches on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    Hmmm... I'd love to comment on Chavez. In fact, I already have, but, to no avail. Once more down the rabbit hole..... Can't hardly wait 'till next week.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    Once again I forget, last post by Dadler. Sorry.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    How so Jim? What's your take on Chavez? He might like power a little too much (what world leader doesn't?), but he seems to be doing some good things with it. Literacy up in Venezuela, Health care more readily available, etc. He's done more to help the working poor in the South Bronx than Bush...what's that tell us? I just can't help but like the guy...if for no other reason than I like a rabble rouser. And I got a big laugh out of Rangel and Schumer and other Dems condemning his remarks...fellas, if you won't do your job speaking up for the little guy, both in America and abroad, don't condemn someone who does. If you won't stand up to Bush...at least Chavez will.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Peaches on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    There's no guarantee that this comment won't also be losst, but a couple of suggestions for TL. I have a hard time finding old threads in the archives. I was just looking for the "mending fences" one, or something or other title. Once they fall off the page I go looking for them in catagories. But I don't see a catagory for immigration. I often can't figure our what category heading a thread will fall under. I am sure there is an easy way to find an archived thread that I am unaware of or have yet to discover, but a link to threads posted over the past 7 days, and then by months would be helpful for finding comments and threads from the past. FWIW, and once I push [POST] I am sure to discover it is worth nill as it descends down the rabbit hole.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jen M on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    "[The bill] allows the president to declare any foreigner, anywhere, an 'illegal enemy combatant' using a dangerously broad definition, and detain him without any trial." What makes the NYT think this will be limited to foreigners? And what makes the Washington Post think the next president, republican or democrat, will give up any of the power Bush has taken?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 03:00:58 PM EST
    From the Nation as linked by desertswine:
    First word of the early dispatch of the "Ike Strike" group to the Persian Gulf region came from several angry officers on the ships involved, who contacted antiwar critics like retired Air Force Col. Sam Gardiner and complained that they were being sent to attack Iran without any order from the Congress.
    Information regarding the deployment of naval vessels leaked by current officers on board? Sounds like we need some court martials and BCD's.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 03:06:17 PM EST
    Peaches - I am using Firefox and am having no problems. When I use MSIE I have maximum problems. As to the categories, I find them fairly consistent. kdog - If you think this guy is anything but someone who hates Amercia I really question your judgement. And if you think his citizens could call him names in front of the world you are totally wrong. He is nothing but a tin pot dictator who is slowly squeezing the democracy out of his country while aligning himself with all of those who hate us. You should know him by who he associates with.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 03:10:21 PM EST
    kdog - You wrote:
    I'd trade Bush for him in a heartbeat.
    That isn't going to happen. But you can certainly get the same effect by moving to Venezula. Well, won't you? I don't see why you aren't packing right now?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 05:58:59 PM EST
    Peaches, try googling what ever search terms you had and add "site:talkleft.com" at the end of those terms. BTW, most of the comments from older posts have been lost in the memory hole, even google cache can't bring them up.
    That isn't going to happen. But you can certainly get the same effect by moving to Venezula.
    No, you can't. But It would be nice to have a president that wasn't determined on world conquest, torture and secret prisons.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 05:58:59 PM EST
    Peaches: I have a hard time finding old threads in the archives. I was just looking for the "mending fences" one, or something or other title. You probably alrady know this, but just in case... you can use google to search specific site rather than the web in general. Try this in google: Site: Talkleft.com "mending fences"

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 06:51:35 PM EST
    cal state u. professors urge students to give ah-nold an 'f'! . .

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 09:05:07 AM EST
    Thanks Edger, I haven't tried google before, but thats good advice. Jim, I downloaded firefox when this problem first began, per your suggestion. It has not helped me. For some reason my posts still get lost.