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Moving Forward After the Election

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 11:49:36 AM EST
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I'm recovered from the election frenzy and thinking about the direction TalkLeft will take between now and the 2008 election, which is not far away.

Personally, I'd like to concentrate as I've always done, on the politics of crime, the crime in politics, civil liberties, criminal justice legislation in Congress, prisons, sentencing, the detainees and the War in Iraq. I haven't asked, but I suspect TChris and Last Night in Little Rock feel the same.

But I'm also grateful to Big Tent Democrat who posts on TalkLeft on politics and often exposes the non-liberal media, and glad that he has agreed to continue posting on TalkLeft even though the elections are over. After all, 2008 is right around the corner.

But, let's take a poll.

What kind of coverage do you want to see on TalkLeft?

< False Rape Accuser Gets 90 Days | The GOP Bright Spot: Lieberman >

Poll

What Should TalkLeft Cover Now?
♦ More crime and injustice posts 20%
♦ More politics posts 0%
♦ Continue as is, it's a good mix 51%
♦ It's your blog, do what you want, I'll read anyway 27%

Votes: 43
Results | Other Polls

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    Moving Forward After the Election | 86 comments (86 topical)

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    JM (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:02:35 PM EST
    The poll don't work because the vandal took the handle.

    (I can't check a box to vote)

    Nice, SUO... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:10:17 PM EST
    I vote for 3. And since BTD is the elephant in the room on this one:

    BTD is at his best when he posts like this.

    He is at his worst when he comments like this.

    We want to encourage the former and discourage the latter, but kicking him to the curb does not seem like a good way to do that.

    I like him and I like his posts. Even though he's wrong. ;-D

    Parent

    What's wrong with that comment? (1.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:18:58 PM EST
    Seriously.

    Is it worse than this comment?

    "Can you even read? What part of not the only big story but a big story  eludes that razor-sharp mind?

    I was hoping that after the election you would either go away or at least stop  what I assumed was silly posturing you thought clever even though it  was really bad even as posturing. If you actually bel;ieve 1% of what you write it is just world-class obtuseness."

    I don't think so.

    Stop THAT type of commenting and I will stop the type of commenting that you object to. I'll have no need for it.

    There is a very basic measure I apply - consistent standards.

    I live by the standards of the community. But the comunity standards need to be upheld by that community. When they are not, then justice must be served as is possible.

    My retorts are necessary because people like you do not enforce community standards.

    Do you job as a community member and I won't have to take justice into my own hands.

    Parent

    too much ann althouse in that comment (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by jerry on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:05:28 PM EST
    You're not as smart as I thought!  You need to learn to read!  You're too partisan!  That's just weird!

    This is the stuff you can try to get away with as a 55 year old tenured law professor that likes to think she is a 15 year old culture queen heading the in group, ... but not until then.

    Parent

    Jerry (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:39:45 PM EST
    PErhaps you did not catch this  it was not MY comment.

    It was one of the complainer's comments.

    Parent

    As a daily talkleft reader (none / 0) (#23)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:05:55 PM EST
    from before you started posting here I've enjoyed much of what you've had to say. That being said, I find you to be very ineffective when it comes to meaningful dialog because of comments such as this:

    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/11/6/17301/5086/29#c29

    I would also argue that you do talkleft a disservice when you make profane abusive posts like this while "promoting" talkleft in your comments.

    Parent

    sffly (none / 0) (#27)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:18:07 PM EST
      No, that can't be our poor  little BTD, can it?  He  just said only lashes out when he's picked on personally, and he's always right-- just ask him.

       BTD never starts the invective simply because people disagree with him. That's just a nasty rumor with no basis in fact.

    Parent

    At Talk Left (1.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:38:29 PM EST
    is the issue.

    Parent
    Nevermind... (none / 0) (#26)
    by jerry on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:13:19 PM EST
    Hmm, maybe I do need to learn to read better.

    Parent
    enforcing community standards (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:28:29 PM EST
    Big Tent, how do we enforce community standards?  By rating comments?

    We're still new to Scoop and I'm not sure we all know how to do that.  It would be great if you would write a post about blog community standards, what they are and how to create and enforce them.  I'm not sure even I understand how it works.  For example, if lots of us rated the comment you reproduced as a "1", what would be the practical result?

    Parent

    Ratings are a good way (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:40:54 PM EST


    Parent
    Whoa! (none / 0) (#13)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:00:04 PM EST
    BTD, the comment you quoted is not one of mine. And I'd happily "do my job as a community member" and try to keep myself from commenting like that here.

    My main goal here is to engage in reasoned debate. No doubt, I stray from that on occasion, but generally, I try to do better than the type of cheerleading seen on sites like Kos and LGF. That's what I like about TalkLeft. There's still a little debate going on over here. That's a sharp contrast to the majority of political blogs.

    I would hope that all comments like those I linked and you quoted are rare and the exception, here at TalkLeft.

    Parent

    I know Gabriel (1.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:40:27 PM EST
    But no one criticized it. No one.

    That is my point.

    Parent

    "Don't feed the trolls" (none / 0) (#22)
    by roy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:50:39 PM EST
    If someone posts something that is pure invective, like your example or, frankly, this , don't encourage them.

    If you respond in kind -- and you do -- you just encourage more.  You aren't "enforcing" the community rules, you're sending a message that the community rules say it's OK to post empty insults.

    Parent

    That's silly (1.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:36:15 PM EST
    What is the standard? And how does the community you know?

    Parent
    Well said (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:54:40 AM EST
    Gabe - Well said.

    Parent
    Working on It (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:06:01 PM EST
    I know.  Somethings wrong with the coding, we're working on it.  For some reason, there's no place to vote yet.  

    I'll take more... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:23:33 PM EST
    Good old fashion police are brutal, fascist pig threads....Those get the comments flowing.

    Personally, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:46:47 PM EST
    Personally, I'd like to concentrate as I've always done, on the politics of crime, the crime in politics, civil liberties, criminal justice legislation in Congress, prisons, sentencing, the detainees and the War in Iraq.

    I'm in favor of this.

    I think my opinion of BTD is known.

    opinion of BTD (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:06:17 PM EST
    C'mon Sarc. That opinion would change if you'd buy him that [metaphorical, at least] beer I suggested the other day. Of that I am convinced. I've seen your opinions change before, with new input. ;-)

    Parent
    BTD (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by s5 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:59:43 PM EST
    Well I'm going to be perfectly honest here.

    I'm not a regular commenter but I've been reading this site for a couple of years now, and I have to say, BTD has really brought down the tone of TL. I've always appreciated and respected Jeralyn's restrained strength when writing about the issues, and I thought the other folks she's brought in (like TChris) shared her style while bringing a bit of their own. It just worked.

    But then along came BTD, who injected a more shrill yet less substantial version of the same sort of content you'd read on MyDD or Kos. By the time I read it here, I'd already read it over there, except better. And with each post, there would be a new series of attacks against people on the same side, including the daily comment section flame war where the content wasn't the subject of disagreement - the disagreement was over the writer. I just don't like it. To me, whether or not BTD can get along with everyone isn't a particularly riveting issue. I come here to read about the politics of crime. If I want pointless drama and infighting between strangers, that's what America's Next Top Model is for.

    Don't get me wrong, I think combative writers and personalities are essential for the progressive movement. For example, Atrios is masterful at mocking and dismissing the conservative movement. But it's not just enough to be combative. You also have to project strength otherwise it sounds like a yapping chihuahua.

    Jeralyn, if you're reading this, my opinion as just one reader would be to keep to the style, content, and format you've always had, and drop BTD. I'm sure s/he is a perfectly nice person, but the voice just isn't working here. Sorry. :(

    Thanks for the comment (none / 0) (#71)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:04:06 AM EST
    Frankly I am not sure I disagree with you for the most part.

    On one point I do, my thinking is quite original, whether its right or not is another story, you will not find my take as the common one.

    On Paranoid Style, Contrast, Media, and framing, my voice is unique.

    But your larger poitn has merit.

    I wonder if I fit here honestly.

    The audience here simply is not that interested and, dare I say it, informed, on politics. And my style is not a plus.

    Parent

    I can't seem to vote... (none / 0) (#1)
    by desertswine on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:01:56 PM EST
    But I want number 3.

    Poll Now Fixed (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:28:54 PM EST
    You can vote now, thanks for pointing that out.

    Parent
    We've been Diebolded! (none / 0) (#4)
    by roy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:07:09 PM EST
    n/t

    And you folks get a real treat (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:08:29 PM EST
    I'll be shedding my anonymity in December.

    Isn't that a real Christmas present . . . not.

    You'll be stunningly bored by it. But it will be done.

    I dunno.... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by scribe on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:22:40 PM EST
    Just limit the shedding to your anonymity and make sure it doesn't look like the muscle guy with the Santa hat in the Haggard scandal, OK?

    Parent
    Uh, oh. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:13:01 PM EST
    That should be interesting and welcome. But just to do my bit to keep you from getting too big for your tent I voted for #3: "Continue as is, it's a good mix" - so keep doing what you've been doing, ok? ;-)

    Parent
    re: The mix (none / 0) (#11)
    by scribe on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:33:47 PM EST
    There's plenty of crime and injustice posts which have been going begging in the election environment, mostly because there's been so much crime and injustice in the higher levels of politics.  And a lot of election chicanery.  
    IMHO, the thrust should keep pretty close to what it is, but the pressure (and volume;  PV=nRT) of election-related stuff will subside so we can spend more time parsing out things like: Ghost Air, Warrantless Wiretapping, Torture, Habeas, and the abuses of the trial and appellate processes the Gov't has used in all the cases challenging these to kick those cans down the road, in hope of opponents giving up or the courts being sufficiently stacked to change the rules and make the illegal, legal.

    I suspect the pressure of investigations on the Hill and related disclosures will make for a lot of Scooter-type parsing work, plus Scooter's own trial is coming up soon, too.  I count that all as "Crime and injustice", not politics....

    Lots of work coming.  

    Wow! It's been a long time (none / 0) (#16)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:10:17 PM EST
    since I've seen the Ideal Pervert Law!

    Parent
    crime and injustice (none / 0) (#12)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:58:30 PM EST
      There are many other sites where partisan politics, personalities and quarrels over  ideological dogma  are the focus. Why become one of a crowd (and a lesser one in the crowd) when you can fill an important niche that is not otherwise well-served? Trying to be a poor relation to DU and DK will just make this site far less effective at  fulfilling its original intent.

      More specifically, I've already expressed my opinion of BTD.

    crime and punishment (none / 0) (#15)
    by jerry on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    Apologize if this is a double post, but the first time it didn't seem to take.

    I come to TL to get TL's take on crime and injustice.  There's plenty of politics around.  You guys have lots of depth to discuss crime and injustice (and are just so so on the politics.)

    I find it interesting (and shocking) to find that the "famous internet constitutional law profs" are such hacks.

    I value your take on the crime and injustice, and if I could ask for something additional, it would be to find more posts here getting your take on the posts of the famous internet con law profs.  Right now, the only person I know of that does that outside of academia is Glenn Greenwald.

    Huh? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:33:41 PM EST
    Sarc?

    I've googled everyone of those comments you posted above and I get no search results on them. I've also searched thru Big Tents's comment records here on Talkleft and they are nowhere to be found.

    Do you have a link?

    Because (1.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:37:58 PM EST
    they are form a different web site. I think the detractors reveal themselves.

    Parent
    no (none / 0) (#35)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:39:27 PM EST
      I think, to the extent it was necessary, they further revealed you for the dishonest hypoctite you are. What conceivable difference does it make where you posted that invective?

    Parent
    Because of COMMUNITY (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:09:38 PM EST
    standards. The rules of Talk Left are NOT the rules of Daily Kos.

    It makes all the difference in the world.

    It amazes me that you would need that explained.

    Parent

    Thoughtfulness: Because of COMMUNITY (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 05:50:27 PM EST
    I agree completely. I certainly don't talk when Im in a bar the way I do at work, or here.

    I don't comment over at Kos, only because his color scheme is uncomfortable for me to look at.

    But I've never seen you make comments that way here.

    Parent

    well... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:53:40 PM EST
    When I googled them I got "no results". At all. On any sites.

    Parent
    here (none / 0) (#32)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:38:03 PM EST
    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/11/6/17301/5086/29#c29

     It's right there in sffly's posts a few  above. Are you seeking to question whether that is the same BTD?  

    Parent

    You miss the point (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:39:09 PM EST
    at Talk Left.

    Parent
    I think I miss your poin too. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:40:59 PM EST
      What exactly is it? That because that particular gem was on DK it has no relevance to your true character?

    Parent
    It hhas no relevance (none / 0) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:44:06 PM EST
    to the Talk Left Community Standard

    Parent
    The point is what? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Patrick on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:47:08 PM EST
    Your thoughts and feelings are different depending on the site you post on?  

    Parent
    My mode of expression (none / 0) (#61)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:45:31 PM EST
    My tone.

    What the discussion is about.

    Parent

    Edger (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:59:15 PM EST
    It was from Daily Kos.

    Apparently this is how BTD presents himself elsewhere and then finishes his profanity-laced comments with "More at TalkLeft."

    I hope, now, for his own sake, he doesn't reveal his true identity.

    btw, I don't understand how you didn't pick up on that his comment was from DK - how do you view this site? In the default "nested?" Or one of the other options?

    Parent

    view this site? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:12:16 PM EST
    Nested.

    Parent
    Edger (none / 0) (#51)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:39:40 PM EST
    Nested can be confusing. In a thread like this with multiple people responding, in nested, I often have to hit the "Parent" button under a comment to figure out what the comment is in response to.

    Anyway, I think you know now where the BTD quote came from...

    Parent

    Re: "moron" (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:55:07 PM EST
    I can provide a link for you if you like to your comment calling me a "moron".

    Will that be helpful, do you think?

    not necessary (none / 0) (#42)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:01:15 PM EST
      I remember. You wrote something I thought particularly  moronic. I don't pretend to be something I'm not or lie about my intent and motivation.

      I simply don't think you and BTD have half a clue between you. Sorry.

    Parent

    "community standard"? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:18:30 PM EST
    You can call me a "moron" if you want. It has no effect - I know myself quite well, thanks. Much better than you can from a comment I might make that you don't like.

    There is a "community standard" that should work for all: THOUGHTFULNESS. It's too late after hitting POST to start explaining away ourselves.

    Perhaps the software guys can force a confirmation dialog box to appear when we hit that Post button.

    You know: "Are you sure you want to post this? Press OK or Cancel."

    BUT, that would be kind of abdicating responsibility and asking them to save us from ourselves, no?

    ;-)


    Parent

    So? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:25:57 PM EST
    You wrote something I thought particularly  moronic.

    So? You should see what some of these comments here look like from my perspective, or from anyone elses perspective.

    A suggestion? How about THOUGHTFULNESS. As a community standard.

    Yeah I know Im getting repetitious here. It's just the moron in me. ;-)

    Parent

    Different standards should apply. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:14:43 PM EST
    Guys, this is not Kos (nor is it Ace's, Edger). The fact that someone has debated differently in a different forum should not be held against them over here.

    BTD hasn't said anything like his Kos comments over here and he hasn't indicated that he plans to. To the contrary, he himself notes that a different standard applies. And that sounds right to me.

    So, let's all get over the Kos thing and focus on Jeralyn's community here. She asked us what we wanted it to be like. This is your chance to shape the future!

    Use it wisely.

    Parent

    THOUGHTFULNESS (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:20:35 PM EST
    Use it wisely.

    Parent
    really? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:24:14 PM EST
      Other than using the f-word less frequently what exactly is different about his "style" here?

     Essentially, he can dish it out but he can't take i.  On his best behaviot he is smarmily condescending and typically he calle anyone with whom he disagrees  (whether political figures, journalists or posters here) all sorts of names such as pathetic, losers, morons, idiots and the list goes on and on. Then he has the stunning chutzpah to whine like a  six year old when he is mocked for his excesses.

      I'd estimate 995 of all rancor is instigated by his posts. Coincidence?

     

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:26:19 PM EST
    my posts  are provocative and that is a good thing.

    I think I am a provocative commenter. As are you.

    Glass houses DEcon.

    Parent

    Brain food (none / 0) (#72)
    by Edger on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 03:18:02 AM EST
    Nothing wrong with provocative. It makes people think about what they say. Well... some of them, anyway.

    If I wanted pablum I'd turn this thing off and turn the TV on and let the Katie Courics of the world tell me what I think I'm supposed to think.

    Stick around ok?

    Parent

    Shaping the future (none / 0) (#56)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 05:50:35 PM EST
    If BTL had posted that way without promoting talkleft I would agree with you. Ultimately I believe the site owner here gets to decide if she wants that type of site promotion.

    Regardless of talkleft's policy, this blue collar worker firmly believes that ad hominem attacks are a good indicator of a bankrupt argument, intellectual laziness, or both.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:25:17 PM EST
    anyone can link to anything they want.

    You are factually incorrect.

    Moreover, your history at daily kos is rather spotty at best.

    Parent

    pure ad hominem (none / 0) (#59)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:32:41 PM EST
    see above.

    Parent
    How so? (none / 0) (#60)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:43:57 PM EST
    IS t not relevant to your point.

    If comments at daily kos are relevant, so is your record at daily kos.

    Methinks you  doth protest too much.

    Parent

    because you offer (none / 0) (#63)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:54:55 PM EST
    unsubstatiated character assassination, that's how so.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:03:09 PM EST
    I could instead link to your work I suppose.

    But it is irrelevant to your participation here.

    Parent

    Not irrelevant here now. (none / 0) (#68)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 10:48:22 PM EST
    You are the one who made my contributions to dKos relevant. You derogated my participation there without offering any material to back up your false assertion. Your sole reason for distorting my contributions to dKos were to discredit my contributions here. That, BTD, is classic ad hominem - see above.

    Parent
    Enough About Big Tent and Daily Kos (none / 0) (#69)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 11:18:18 PM EST
    This thread is about TalkLeft, not Daily Kos.  Enough of the attacks on Big Tent, please.  If you don't care for his writing, please scroll by his posts.

    I appreciate his contributions and his insights.  I don't care what he writes on other sites.  He stays well within the bounds of TalkLeft's comment policy here.

    He is also trying to stimulate debate.  We're not done with the election cycle, as I've said, 2008 is close.

    Deconstructionist is close to being labeled a chatterer and limited to four comments a day.  

    Parent

    It's your site (none / 0) (#73)
    by Deconstructionist on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:43:49 AM EST
     and you may label anyone snything you like without regard to consistency,  accuracy or fairness. I fully understand that. If you choose to exercise your ability to censor dissent that's your decision and you will be judged accordingly by both those  who fear competing voices and like censorship and those who feel the decision to censor competing views is an admission of the inability to defend the leader's opinions and actions against dissent.

       I'm just a poster lacking the sanction and approbation of the leadership. BTD is obviosly on the inside and judged by an entirely different standard. That's your choice and you are free to make it.

      I'm sure you understand that you place  your reputation and your credibility at issue when you support BTD, and if you truly think his message is of such import and insight that promoting him and punishing his detractors by all mwans do so. Ultimately, the interested public will decide what happens to your site and if this is the direction you choose, so be it. You haver every right to make this site what you want it to be. If you prefer a small club where  true believers can converse without regard to the reality of the larger world and without fear of being challenged you may have it.

       I'd prefer something else. So, if that is your choice just let me know and you won't have to bother with whatever machinations are necessary to stifle me with code. I'll find somewhere where dissent from the party  is not unwelcome.

    Parent

    That was rather nasty (none / 0) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 10:17:16 AM EST
    Incidentally, I agree with you. You should not be censored.

    But your acid tongue directed at JERALYN is beyond the pale. She is beyond nice. She does not deserve your rancor.

    MY own view is your inability to respect Jeralyn's civility is the biggest strike against you.

    I'll give and expect to take. Jeralyn does not give and should not take nastiness like this.

    The irony of course is your constant whning about people being mean to you.

    Your greatest sin to me is you are a bore. Stop whining and mix it up without complaint. You dish out plenty. Stop complaining when you take.

    Parent

    I respectfully request, Jeralyn,... (none / 0) (#87)
    by Bill Arnett on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 03:01:59 PM EST
    ...that you review Decon's comments under the War Crimes Trial for Rumsfeld section.

    Very disrespectful, combative, rude, arrogant, insulting personal attacks, etc., in the worst of troll tradition.

    So, just in case trolls can be nominated, I would nominate Decon as troll of the month.

    Parent

    In the interests of accuracy (none / 0) (#62)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 06:48:27 PM EST
    anyone is free to look at everything I've ever written at dKos right here:

    http://www.dailykos.com/user/sfflyman

    It's all very boring and as BTL has pointed out, dKos posts have nothing to do with talkleft (at least not when they're his), but I've got nothing to hide (including "spots")so feel free to head on over and check it out.

    Anyway, I'm done on this, I didn't really come here to rehash any arguments, every bit of contempt I have for his argumentation style is in the dKos thread. I have no desire to repost it here.

    Parent

    correction (none / 0) (#65)
    by sfflyman on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:13:17 PM EST
    I wrote a reply to this comment:

    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/11/4/162038/800/?pid=49#c68

    where I cut and pasted the comment into my reply, I then changed Booman to hell and diary to comment. That is the sum total of my response.

    Apparently those at dKos who are comfortable telling others to f off are uncomfortable with that type of snark so they moved the comment to the hidden section.

    Parent

    more opinion, please (none / 0) (#43)
    by ding7777 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:03:09 PM EST
    Jeralyn,

    I would like to see more of your opinion.

    You said you were going to watch 60 Minutes (re the Duke Rape) and comment on it.  I came back a couple of times and did not see your update.

    Also, I would really like to know what you think happened with JonBenet Ramsey. Do you think  Patsy Ramsey was involved?  How did that Professor (who fingered Karr) know the about "secret" evidence and why did the DA believe him based on leading emails?

    With due respect to all (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 04:41:33 PM EST
    I present this thread as all the evidence necessary  for determinations.

    I rest my case.

    The site and BTD (none / 0) (#54)
    by Sailor on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 05:00:09 PM EST
    It was't exactly a choice listed but I go with keeping it "The Politics of Crime." Of course the last choice will always be the final say and I respect that.

    I frequently skip BTD's posts because I find them almost exclusively politics and everyone has an equally (to them) justified opinion. I usually prefer to discuss facts. Must be my science background.

    That said, my only comment about BTD is his engagement of the commentators. If I was lucky enough to be a co-poster on this site I would try to stay above the fray. Remember, the 'pig likes it';-)

    As far as BTD's comments on other sites; every site has it's style and discourse. I'm not gonna hold someone's language against them when they're in a bar fight when I see them in church. (Extreme example I know, but the outliars are one way to define the median.)

    In BTD's defense (of sorts) (none / 0) (#66)
    by jerry on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:28:35 PM EST
    Hey, I just want to say, I actually enjoy BTD's articles, sometimes, except for when he is disagreeing with me at which time he of course pisses me off....  

    The name of the blog is TalkLeft, not Talk Crime and Injustice, so BTD's voice could fit in here just fine, depending on where Jeralyn wants to go.

    BTD (none / 0) (#70)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 11:44:58 PM EST
    Keep BTD. Some people really need to be offended on a regular basis.

    Really (none / 0) (#74)
    by Edger on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:52:29 AM EST
    I agree with Ernesto.

    Parent
    TL's Right (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:42:00 AM EST
    As probably the person commenting the longest on the blog, and as one who is usually in opposition to the majority I would note the following.

    When I started commenting back in the winter of '03 the majority of the content was the WOT, the war in Iraq and various posts on social issues and crime/injustice. Politics was there, but in the minority.

    My personal preference would be more social issues, especially social security, health care, etc., and the WOT/Iraq.

    People have come and gone and the content has changed over the years to where the major thrust is politics. I put this to the attention paid to the Leftist blogs by the Demos. Performers will always play to their audience, and there is nothing wrong in that.

    Big Tent writes, as best I can tell, about nothing but politics. If TL wants to take the blog in that direction, it is her right. No one makes any of us read or comment. That we are having this discussion is a tribute to TL's basic fairness, as well as a love we feel for the blog, even though we may be dedicated opponents on some of the issues.

    As to Big Tent's sharp tongue, I assume he can take as well as he can give. I ask for nothing more.

    I agree with Jim (none / 0) (#77)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 10:12:46 AM EST
    And I mostly talk politics. Though I will do law and Iraq also.

    But whatever is unique about my view IS the politics, one commenter's view on this notwithstanding.

    I agree that I might not be a fit for Talk Left.

    I am thinking about that.

    Parent

    xx (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:02:01 PM EST
    BT - Do not take my comment as negative towards you.


    Parent
    xx (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:08:51 PM EST
    BT - My point was that you write more about the "mechanics" of politics than you do the underlying issues. i.e. I think that where you would have written about the number of votes needed by Bush to pass the Medicare Rx bill and that the Demos opposed it, others would have examined why the Demos refused to support their largest demographic group, and how this demonstrated their belief that they no longer needed the old folks.

    Parent
    More issues, less politics (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 10:22:58 AM EST
    My 2 cents...I like when we address and debate issues.  Oftentimes politics is a distraction from the issues.

    I come to TL to learn about and discuss the issues of crime, punishment, social policy, the war, civil liberties, corruption, etc...not to cheerlead for crooked D's over crooked R's or to get excited about a Dem congressional majority that will likely never address the issues that matter most to me personally.

    kdog (none / 0) (#80)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:47:32 AM EST
    I come to TL to learn about and discuss the issues of crime, punishment, social policy, the war, civil liberties, corruption, etc...not to cheerlead for crooked D's over crooked R's or to get excited about a Dem congressional majority that will likely never address the issues that matter most to me personally.

    You're my new hero!

    Parent

    xx (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:12:26 PM EST
    Well said. Very well said.

    Parent
    Although I'm new to posting here (none / 0) (#81)
    by sfflyman on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 11:52:22 AM EST
    I've enjoyed this site for some time. I followed a link here one day and immediately liked the unique perspective you have on issues that are important to me. I haven't posted because, as a blue collar worker, I have no experience in law, making coming here a learning experience for me. Between this site and Mr. Greenwald's I've become much more aware of our rights and their erosion at the hands of our government. For this I am grateful. Thank you.

    As one who has benefited from your insightful posts, I participated in the poll and chose the "it's your blog" option. As I wrote upthread, I've read and enjoyed some of BTD's earlier pieces. I will continue to look at his offerings here but will not comment on them for reasons as listed above.

    Hey, sfflyman, you are equally as... (none / 0) (#86)
    by Bill Arnett on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 02:51:45 PM EST
    ...qualified to make your opinion know without regard to your background! Besides, blue collar workers BUILT this country and that backgound makes you VERY qualified to offer your opinion.

    Join in on the fun, participate, everyone has something to contribute even if others disagree.

    And a funny thing about the law is that it USUALLY doesn't require more than a good grounding in commonsense to interpret it or to figure out its applicability to yourself or your situation.

    You WILL read some of the most even-handed, easy to understand explanations of the law here thanks to Jeralyn's beautiful, clear, concise writing style (and the rest of the staff, too!).

    Besides, being unqualified to comment hasn't stopped the rest of us! ;>))

    So, please, you certainly don't NEED an invitation to participate, but if it would make you more comfortable, PLEASE JOIN IN AND ENJOY YOURSELF! WELCOME!

    Parent

    I tried and tried to post comments... (none / 0) (#85)
    by Bill Arnett on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 01:34:48 PM EST
    ...along with my vote yesterday and was unable to do so.

    I voted for the current mix, but with an iron-clad guarantee that I WILL continue to read the site daily, Jeralyn, out of respect for your opinions and the goodwill you seem to radiate.

    All this picking on BTD confuses me though. He expresses his viewpoint and you are free to disagree. What's wrong with that? If you don't like him, DON'T READ HIM, and if you do read him and disagree, so state. I don't think he's any more objectionable than many commenters here, and I include myself in that group as I know there are times when people disagree with me. Or PPJ. Or deconstructionist. And lot's of others.

    I did want to ask BTD about revealing his identity though.

    Aren't you that hugh grey squirrel I saw on my roof dragging a laptop behind? If so, I'm sorry to ruin your surprise, although I am amazed at your dexterity.

    It couldn't be the squirrel... (none / 0) (#88)
    by Gabriel Malor on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 03:50:24 PM EST
    I swear I saw raccoon stealing my wifi. When I caught him, he screamed "Paranoid, much!?!?" and scampered off.

    That wasn't you, BTD?

    Parent

    Moving Forward After the Election | 86 comments (86 topical)

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