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How to Build an Atom Bomb, Courtesy of Bush Administration

I remember when the Government complained about the Anarchist's Cookbook website with instructions for building a bomb, among other nefarious items. But how does that compare to this:

Last March, the federal government set up a Web site to make public a vast archive of Iraqi documents captured during the war. The Bush administration did so under pressure from Congressional Republicans who had said they hoped to “leverage the Internet” to find new evidence of the prewar dangers posed by Saddam Hussein.

But in recent weeks, the site has posted some documents that weapons experts say are a danger themselves: detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb.

The Government shut down the web site last night.

< Report: Voice Expert ID's Ted Haggard's Voice | GOP Declares Iraq War Over, Fires Inspector General >
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    Moonbat Conspiracy Theory Of The Day (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:34:51 AM EST
    The rethugs did this on purpose, to make themselves look as stupid  and ridiculous as possible, to make us laugh our heads off at them.

    It's reverse psychology. Doing things backwards and upsidedown is their specialty!

    Nobody that funny and dumb can possibly be scary or dangerous, can they?

    Besides, they're STRONNNGGG on national security. Aren't they? They told us so!

    Vote republican on tuesday - so THEY can keep pertecktin' you from THEM! ;-)


    "I don't think all this dirt will fit back into the hole. We'd better dig another one."

    Heh.

    Iraq (1.00 / 1) (#53)
    by ballen1948 on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 03:51:19 PM EST
    Well, you mean that Saddam had detailed data about building nuclear weapons?  How did he get this because everybody knows that he had no nuclear program and was a peaceful fun-loving guy? The NYT must be wrong about this. I was reading about the battles we lost in WWII like Iwo Jima, Normandy etc.  At IWO, we had 7,000 killed in 3 days, a disaster and defeat by anybody's definition.  And for what?  a pile of volcanic sand?       Didn't the American public realize we were getting destroyed? In Normandy, we were crushed by the Germans and lost 50,000 in 3 weeks. I totally agree that since we have lost 2500 in 3 years in Iraq, defeat is at hand.

    Atomic bomb (none / 0) (#1)
    by Richard Aubrey on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 07:25:15 AM EST
    Impossible.  The Iraqis were nowhere near having a bomb, or a program, or theoretical capabilities.

    Remember, Bush lied.  So did Judith Miller.

    Now, if this stuff is genuine, so, probably, is most of the rest of the stuff trickling out.  And, if you've been following, the rest of the stuff, to the extent it isn't somebody's request for a week off, tends to support the administration's claims about terror connections and WMD.

    So it would be better for you to insist the diagrams et al came from Mother Earth News in 1995 or something.

    Another one (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:05:12 AM EST
    The National Review spreading quickly.

    The proogram was dormant genius.

    I tell you the program that were NOT dormant - Iran and North Korea's.

    And you kow who helped them - A.Q. Khan of Pakistan. You know, the  guy Musharraf won't let us interview?

    This National Review pushback is so stupid, so lame, so idiotic that it makes me wonder how just how stupid Republicans really are.


    Parent

    Difficulty of /designing/ a fission device (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by sphealey on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:10:45 AM EST
    I believe it was 1976 that an undergraduate physics student at Princeton designed a fission device for his senior thesis, and did a good enough job that his thesis was confiscated by the DOE under the "born classified" provision.  The story was published in that ultra-radical magazine Readers's Digest.

    That was a lone undergraduate working from public documents without benefit of MatLab, Mathematica, or any of the computing tools available at your local discount store today.  There is no doubt that an entity with the resources of a State can design a fission device and I would be willing to bet ppj's trolling income for month that dozens of governments around the world have such plans ready in their files.  Actually building it, and then weaponizing it, are entirely different questions.

    Parent

    xx (1.00 / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 08:17:11 AM EST
    RA - Shame on you for pointing out the truth...

    Parent
    Demonstrating the truth (4.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:05:54 AM EST
    Republicans are idiots.

    And a danger to the national security of the United States.

    Parent

    Re: Atomic bomb (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 08:21:41 AM EST
    Well... you could advocate shutting down the whole internet. Or start a book burning campaign. Better yet, close all schools. Ban the teaching of any kind of science, or any type of education. Above all don't let them ever ask questions about the world around them. Even better - just kill all babies as soon as they are born - the little open minded naturally subversive liberals who haven't been programmed yet might grow up one day and figure out that the entire universe and the world around them iis made of (gasp!) atoms free for the taking, and work out what can be done with them on their own. You know, kind of like everyone figured out how to make fire thousands of years ago.

    Especially if you piss them off by killing them.

    Security trumps all, after all. "Right"?

    Parent

    Twilight Zone (none / 0) (#4)
    by GMoney on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 08:55:29 AM EST
    After watching the segment on NBC this morning, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor.  They kept talking about how the Bush administration posted instructions for making an atomic bomb.  They emphasized the point that anyone could access this info and potentially have the know-how to produce a bomb. I kept thinking, "how could something this idiotic have happened?" Then, in passing, they mentioned the documents were captured in Iraq...  
    What!!?????
    Saddam had the blueprints for a building a nuclear weapon??????  
    Thank God the honorable and trustworthy Joe Wilson found absolutely no evidence Saddam was trying to procure uranium on his vacation to Niger, or the "Saddam was never a threat" line would have to be re-thought...

    Haha (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:02:28 AM EST
    Too funny.

    Saddam had the blueprints!!!

    This is the kind of stupidity that led to the Iraq Debacle.

    Guess who  has the blueprint to the bomb. North Korea.

    Omigwad!!!!  Why is Bush doing something.

    You Republicans . . you're not this dumb are you?

    Parent

    Re: Republicans . . you're not this dumb are you? (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:07:02 AM EST
    Heh. That was a rhetorical question, no?  ;-) (hey, it's early for me!)

    Parent
    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:10:32 AM EST
    But this line is too stupid even for Jim.

    We attacked Iraq - who had no ACTIVE nuclear program - the blueprints were collecting dust - while we did nothing but strengthen IRan and North Korea[s nuclear program, which was completely strengthened by A.Q. Khan of Pakistan, a man under house arrest in his mansion in Pakistan, a man who Musharraf, our great ally, will NOT ALLOW us to interview.

    And these types come and repeat this idiotic National Review line.

    It is beyond pathetic. It is moronic.

    Parent

    Leverage the Internet! (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:05:25 AM EST
    You can't fight no proper war on terror without creatin' some terrists to fight, "right"?

    ahem...
    George Bush's Islamofascist Nuclear Cookbook
    ...cough.

    Missing the point (none / 0) (#11)
    by Rust Belt on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:10:39 AM EST
    The Bush administration did so under pressure from Congressional Republicans who had said they hoped to "leverage the Internet" to find new evidence of the prewar dangers posed by Saddam Hussein.

    The point is fairly simple.  The administration couldn't substantiate their own claims, so they posted material onto the internet hoping republican bloggers would help them find what they needed to give a post-hoc justification for the war.  The fact that they sought to create a justification after the war began should be sickening to everyone.

    Iraq's secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb.

    What the earlier commenters missed is that this was pre-1991 information.  Nothing new, nothing imminent, and as we have seen, nothing being acted on.

    But now, President Anti-Proliferation has done just that, used his own political agenda, creating a post-hoc justification for his war, to yet again make the world a more dangerous place.

    To be sure... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:38:40 AM EST
    It was bad to publish this material. But this material and all of the material published under the FMSO project to provide decentralized translation and dissemination of Iraqi material have also resulted in many important discoveries.

    And, as someone else already noted here, an undergrad was able to design a fission bomb for his senior these. It's unlikely that the posting of this information is as damaging to the United States as the Democrats would like.

    Parent

    Heh! (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:45:58 AM EST
    It's unlikely that the posting of this information is as damaging to the United States as the Democrats would like.

    Still scraping the barrel for points you can't miss?

    It's likely that the posting of this information is as damaging to the republosaurs as the Democrats would like.

    You're dinosaurs. Go find a tar pit and fall in it. Metaphorically speaking.

    The archeologists can dig up your bones a thousand years from now.

    Parent

    I goota say Gabriel (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:54:20 AM EST
    Edger is on point here.

    The GOP stes up a site for POLITCAL PURPOSES that ends up damaging our national securtiy and your reaction is to smear Democrats.

    This is your worst day, at least since I have been posting. I don't know why you decided to draw a line in the sand on this one, but you have been at your most Jim-like today.

    Parent

    Ouch. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 11:02:03 AM EST
    That's a low blow, BTD.

    And I did say that this was a bad result. But the purposes of the project were good and resulted in some good finds among the Iraqi papers. Yeah, this sucks, but (as a Democratic poster above noted) it's not a catastrophic problem.

    Moreover, I think you, Edger, and the NY Times would be hard pressed to claim that Democrats aren't trumpeting this as a triumphant find.

    Parent

    That's a low blow, BTD (none / 0) (#50)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 11:08:02 AM EST
    Then why keep hitting yourself below the belt?

    I mean, it's entertaining as hell for the rest of us to watch you do it, but doesn't it get kind of embarrassing?

    Thanks for bein' you, Gabe! Heh...

    Parent

    Such as (none / 0) (#47)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:48:41 AM EST
    the discovery that Iraq was close to building an atomic bomb in 1991.

    Such as the fact that Republicans are idiots.

    Actually, we knew both of these things a long time ago.

    At least most of us did.

    Are these new discoveries for you Gabriel?

    Parent

    Bomb (none / 0) (#14)
    by Richard Aubrey on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:31:35 AM EST
    The Anchoress has an absolute hoot about a speculative conversation at the NYT.  Don't miss it.

    A hoot (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:36:35 AM EST
    is what all Republicans are.

    Parent
    NYTimes made fools of themsleves? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:37:32 AM EST
    I think the Right and frankly, you, are making fools of themselves.

    It is an article of faith that there was no threat (none / 0) (#17)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:41:40 AM EST
    But this seems to indicate otherwise. What a November surprise indeed.

    Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein's scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away.

    Democrats would have us believe that after being foiled once (actually twice, if you remember the Osirak) Saddam was just going to give up and play nice.

    There was no nuclear threat (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:45:17 AM EST
    Surely Gabriel you are not an idiot too.

    The nuclear program was DORMANT. The plans were PRE-1991.

    The threat and ACTIVE nuclear programs came from Iran and North Korea, thanks to A.Q. Khan of Pakistan.

    Your thinking reflects precisely why Republicans are unfit to govern.

    On April 18, about a month after the first documents were made public, Mr. Hoekstra issued a news release acknowledging "minimal risks," but saying the site "will enable us to better understand information such as Saddam's links to terrorism, weapons of mass destruction and violence against the Iraqi people." He added: "It will allow us to leverage the Internet to enable a mass examination as opposed to limiting it to a few exclusive elites."

    Yesterday, before the site was shut down, Jamal Ware, a spokesman for Mr. Hoekstra, said the government had "developed a sound process to review the documents to ensure sensitive or dangerous information is not posted." Later, he said the complaints about the site "didn't sound like a big deal," adding, "We were a little surprised when they pulled the plug."




    Parent
    I'm an idiot (none / 0) (#20)
    by GMoney on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:51:51 AM EST
    How do we know the program was dormant again?
    And how do we know Saddam had no intentions of ever starting it back up?

    Parent
    How do we know? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:59:56 AM EST
    Well we KNEW in 2003 because the IAEA's inspectors had determined that it was so.

    We KNEW afterwords because US inspectors determined it.

    We KNOW now because the documentation is con clusive. The proof is conclusive.

    We NOW also know that Republicans and their acolytes are idiots because they are applauding the release of sensitive material from the IRaqi document archive, document from the PRE-1991 period, that makes us less safe.

    We NOW KNOW that Republicans and their acolytes are a danger to our national security because they put political gain ahead of keeping our country safe.

    IT is a pathetic display. I suppose you enjoy being part of it.

    Parent

    True or False, BTD (none / 0) (#22)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:56:10 AM EST
    True or False?

    1. Iraq once had WMD.

    2. Iraq once tried to attain nukes.

    3. Saddam Hussein's Iraq was aggressive toward its neighbors.

    4. Saddam Hussein supported terrorists.

    5. Iraq was, during the period 1992-2003 in a shooting war with the US.

    Each of those statements is true. Together they represent the fact that Iraq was a problem. In the words of Madeleine Albright:

    Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.

    That is to say, it was a big problem. Now, you are apparently frantically running from comment to comment in this post noting that "Iran and North Korea are bigger problems." That may be true. That's an argument that we did not prioritize threats correctly. But it is not an argument that Iraq was no threat.

    Parent

    True or false (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:57:01 AM EST
    Iraq was developing a nuclear program in 2003?

    Cuz that is the question.

    Parent

    False. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:08:10 AM EST
    However, the Iraq Survey Group Final Report found that:

    There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial, body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD after sanctions were lifted by preserving assets and expertise. In addition to preserved capability, we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD as soon as sanctions were lifted.

    Now, you seem to think that we would be in a better position with regard to Iran and North Korea today if we hadn't gone to Iraq. I fail to see why having two power-mad and threatening regimes in the Middle East is better than having just one.

    Once again: His nuclear ambition was foiled in 1981 with the bombing of the Osirak. It was foiled again with the Persian Gulf War. What makes you think that he wouldn't keep trying?

    Parent

    Evidence of INTENT (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:15:30 AM EST
    "as soon as sanctions were lifted."

    Except sanctions were not even being proposed to be lifted.

    What was proposed was a disastrous war.

    As for why IRaq has weakened us, because the power mad and ACTUALLY threatening regime in the Middle East, Iran, is now free to do as it pleases because the United States had squandered its military, diplomatic and economi c resources to create the chaos in Iraq that has strengthened the OTHER power mad actually theatening regime.

    Are we SAFER because of the IRaq Debacle? IS Iran now LESS of a threat?

    Surely you can not be arguing that? Except that is what seems to be your argument.

    Thank Gawd the GOP is  getting kicked out on Tuesday. Because I think you are reflecting their thinking.

    Parent

    Iran (none / 0) (#35)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:18:51 AM EST
    Please note the locations of Afghanistan and Iraq on a map. While you're at it, take a look at War on Terrorism allies Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and Pakistan.

    Notice something interesting? Iran is now penned in on all sides by US allies and US forces. If I didn't know better, I'd say there was an intelligent design to that state of affairs...

    Parent

    Iran is penned in? (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:28:34 AM EST
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    The central question for Bush is the one that's likely to be at the center of the Baker-Hamilton recommendations: Is America's best hope for stabilizing Iraq a broad effort to resolve tensions in the Middle East, including the Arab-Israeli dispute? This comprehensive regional approach to Iraq is controversial for two reasons: The United States would have to engage Iraq's troublesome neighbors, Iran and Syria; and it would have to push Israel to make concessions to the Palestinians as part of a broader peace deal.

    A hint that the administration (or at least a faction of it) is considering such an approach came in a Sept. 15 speech by Philip Zelikow, counselor to Rice, at a gathering of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He talked about the need to maintain a coalition of Europeans and moderate Arabs to solve problems such as Iraq and Iran, and then argued: "What would bind that coalition and help keep them together is a sense that the Arab-Israeli issues are being addressed." His speech led Shmuel Rosner, the chief U.S. correspondent for the Israeli daily Haaretz, to wonder in his blog: "Does it really mean a major shift in U.S. policy on the Arab-Israeli conflict?"

    Baker would be an ideal catalyst for such a regional approach, in part because he traveled that road once before with the 1991 Madrid peace conference. That meeting brought together all the major global and regional powers to support a round of peacemaking that led to a treaty between Israel and Jordan, negotiations between Israel and the Syrians, and, eventually, the Oslo accords between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. To begin exploring the possibility of a new regional dialogue, Baker has already met privately with Iranian and Syrian diplomats.

    Some hard-liners are nervous about Baker. A National Security Council staffer commented tartly a few weeks ago that Baker isn't secretary of state and doesn't speak for Bush. And the president himself, though he admires Baker's negotiating skills, worries that an overeager former secretary of state might hop on a plane for Tehran tomorrow if he had his way.

    Britain has been testing the waters for a regional approach. Sir Nigel Sheinwald, the top foreign policy adviser to Prime Minister Tony Blair, visited Damascus this week for talks with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his intelligence chiefs. Sheinwald had visited Washington a week before to plan the trip with senior administration officials who, though skeptical about whether the mission would accomplish much, gave it their blessing.

    Sheinwald presented a series of British-U.S. concerns, including Syria's role in providing a base for Iraqi insurgents and recent Syrian threats to destabilize the Lebanese government of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. Though the meeting didn't produce any breakthroughs, the atmospherics were said to have been better than expected, and there are hopes for further discussions about security issues.

    Administration officials are mum about plans for contacts with Iran. But it's clear they are looking for ways to engage the Iranian regime and explore issues of mutual concern, starting with the deteriorating situation in Baghdad.

    The hornet's nest at the center of the Middle East is Iraq. On this core issue, the administration is exploring a wide range of options, from changes in basic military strategy to whom to pick as the next Centcom commander. The administration had hoped to persuade Marine Gen. James Jones, the retiring NATO commander, to take the job. He would be a popular choice inside and outside the military, but he is said to be wary.

    David Ignatius. Yeah, they are hemmed in allright.


    Parent

    And while I'm thinking about it. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:16:01 AM EST
    Let's not forget that the sole focus on WMD is just a Democratic sideshow. President Bush's message to the UN and the AUMF noted several other reasons for pursuing Saddam Hussein.

    Parent
    Ah (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:19:02 AM EST
    Democracy. How's that Democracy project going in Iraq?

    Which country gets the benefit of this great Iraqi style democracy we brought?

    O h wait, the terrorists links? But that really was dependent on WMD, but anyway that was a lie too!

    Do you really want to litigate this again?

    Parent

    True or False. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:33:19 AM EST
    Saddam Hussein established a program and policy of paying for Palestinian terror.

    Uday Hussein was sent to Sudan in 1994 to set up talks with Osama bin Laden.

    At those talks with bin Laden, he suggested that his group and Iraq take on "joint operations" against Saudi Arabia.

    Saddam Hussein coordinated with Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

    After 9/11 the Iraqi Intelligence Service worried that the US would discover Iraq's links with bin Laden.

    Democrats, reading that Iraq had no hand in the 9/11 attacks, seem to have concluded that Iraq had no contact with terrorists.


    Parent
    True or false (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:42:39 AM EST
    Saudi Arabia established a program and policy of paying for Palestinian terror?

    Parent
    True or false (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:43:21 AM EST
    The US government is lying when it says that Iraq had no working relationship with Al Qaida?

    Parent
    True or false (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:44:12 AM EST
    Saudi Arabia coordinated with Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

    Parent
    True or false (none / 0) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:45:01 AM EST
    Up is down, black is white.

    Parent
    The argument that Iraq was no threat (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:02:55 AM EST
    was proven conclusively by US government inspectors in the post war period.

    In other words, where is the WMD.

    Gabriel, a question, a seious one, are you really playing the idiot here? Why?

    Parent

    Surely Gabriel you are not an idiot too (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:23:16 AM EST
    More rhetorical questions, Big Tent? ;-)

    Gabriel just fishing for any kind of as point he can't or won't purposely miss. Again. Still.

    The repubs have gone and shot 'emselves in th foot. Again!

    That's AT LEAST both feet by now... Heh!

    ^^
    OO

    Parent

    One year away IN 19991 (none / 0) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:51:18 AM EST
    not in 2003 t be clear Gabriel.

    But I doubt that matters to the National Review idiots.

    Does it matter to you?

    Parent

    Clarify, please. (none / 0) (#26)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:00:21 AM EST
    What National Review thing are you talking about?

    Parent
    The source of the silliness (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:11:43 AM EST
    to put it kindly, that you are now spouting in this thread.

    Jim Geraghty.

    Kindly stop actin a fool Gabriel.

    I would enjoy some rational intelligent debate with a Republican. Defending the release of sensitive material that makes us less safe is not acceptable to me.

    Parent

    Why you lunkheads... (none / 0) (#21)
    by desertswine on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:52:49 AM EST
    Bonehead Republicans.  It's like government by the Three Stooges.

    It really is (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 09:56:12 AM EST
    and judging from the Rightwing lunkheads on the Web, head lunkhead Jim Geraghty, and the lunkheads in this thread, it is not just a leadership problem.

    Parent
    Big Tent (none / 0) (#28)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:06:13 AM EST
    Republicans are idiots.

    This National Review pushback is so stupid, so lame, so idiotic that it makes me wonder how just how stupid Republicans really are.

    This is the kind of stupidity that led to the Iraq Debacle

    You Republicans . . you're not this dumb are you?

    But this line is too stupid even for Jim.

    And these types come and repeat this idiotic National Review line.

    It is beyond pathetic. It is moronic.

    Surely Gabriel you are not an idiot too.

    think the Right and frankly, you, are making fools of themselves.

    But I doubt that matters to the National Review idiots

    Counselor, I am impressed with the breadth of your argument.  U N H I N G E D.  Have a cup of tea, but stay away from the sugar.

    Stupid (none / 0) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 10:10:00 AM EST
    is not invective here. It is descriptive.

    1991. 2003. The possibility that you can tell the difference between those two years seems more and more remote.

    The IAEA. The US Inspectors.  The US Government!

    They all lie. They all lie whne they say Iraq had no WMD. They all lie when they say the Iraq nuclear program was dormant in 2003.

    Proof of their lies for GOP idiots? Nuclear blueprints from 1991. The dissemination of these sensitive materials means nothing to Republican idiots who put political gain over the security of our nation.

    Such Republican idiots deserve no respect.

    As if you are worthy of a substantive response.

    Parent

    So (none / 0) (#51)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 01:20:31 PM EST
    They just publish a whole bunch of stuff on the internet and hope someone will find the needle in the haystack? Real genius. It not only gives them more reason to "regulate" the internet (who will remember in a year that it was the RWNJ's that sabotaged it?), but publishing atomic designs is old news.

    The general lay-out for an atomic bomb has been public for 25 years, and design issues are only a minor hurdle, says Matthew Bunn, a nuclear-proliferation expert at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government

    Re: been public for 25 years (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 01:31:58 PM EST
    I'm not a physicist, but isn't a critical mass of uranium or plutonium all that's needed? And I don't think it matters how you get it together, a chain reaction will start as soon as you reach critical.

    If you're not concerned about dying, and you can get your hands on enough of it together in one room - poof - who need a design?

    Any physicists around?

    Parent

    Re (none / 0) (#55)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 05:57:37 PM EST
    Any physicists around?

    Yes.  You don't want a critical mass.  What you want is a sub critical mass that is then crushed by a conventional explosive to create a supercritical mass.  And that is all there really is to it.

    Parent

    all there really is to it. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 06:12:12 PM EST
    If you're weren't concerned about the radiation hurting or killing you, could it be done crudely by one person gathering enough together in one place, and wrapping it in conventional explosive in say a tube or something.

    Parent
    re (none / 0) (#58)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 07:00:09 PM EST
    My reply is at the bottom.  Sorry, I'm not quite up to speed with the new format.

    Parent
    Tempest in a teapot (none / 0) (#54)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 05:53:42 PM EST
    Fabricating a fission bomb isn't technically difficult. There are some sticky bits concerning building bigger weapons, but nothing like a beginners 20kton bomb.  It is, however, resource intensive.  I think the more difficult problem is refining the fuel.  This is technically difficult and resource intensive.  Tempest in a teapot I say.

    re (none / 0) (#57)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 06:59:04 PM EST
    I don't think someone could just "wrap" up some fissile material and have it go supercritical.  By not technically easy, I mean that the design is simple, while the execution would require great precision.  Probably one of the easiest designs to execute wold be the so-called gun type where two wedges of fissile material are smashed together in a tube.  More complicated designs which require simultaneous detonation of several shaped explosives are certainly beyond and individual; but not a government.  He!!, South Africa had the bomb for a while; the A-bomb is third world technology.

    Wikipedia is a good place to find out all the specifics.   Try this for starters.

    Re: homegrown hell (none / 0) (#59)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 07:07:33 PM EST
    Thanks pigwiggle. I'm just trying establish whether one person or a small group, using everyday materials you could pick up like construction grade explosives, steel tubing etc. and maybe with access to a machine shop, as well as possessing enough fissile naterial, could build a small workable bomb, even if it killed them to do it, and live long enough to set it off.

    Parent
    wikipedia rules (none / 0) (#60)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 07:23:56 PM EST
    From Wikipedia re: gun type...

    "With regard to the risk of proliferation and use by terrorists, the relatively simple design is a concern, as it does not require as much fine engineering or manufacturing as other methods. With enough highly-enriched uranium, nations or groups with relatively low levels of technological sophistication could create an inefficient -- though still quite powerful -- gun-type nuclear weapon."

    From me ...

    A fission bomb doesn't necessarily need highly enriched fuel.  A very devastating "fizzle" could be pulled of with low grade stuff.  Whatever fuel doesn't blow would be distributed in dirty bomb fashion around the blast.  This is what might have happened in the DPRK's bomb test.

    Parent

    Welcome back (none / 0) (#61)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 11:32:23 PM EST
    Pigwiggle. I agree with you. The reason it's no big deal that a rudimentary design has been out and about for 25 years is, as you say, because making the bomb grade material requires a massive infrastructure. This is why I never believed the WMD argument for the invasion of Iraq. You can hide some papers, but you cannot hide a million square feet of reprocessing facility. And that's what it takes.