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House Vote On Iraq Withdrawal Scheduled For Today

Via Greg Sargent, the House will hold a vote on a proposal by Out of Iraq Caucus member Jim McGovern (D-MA) to set a date certain for withdrawal AND for NOT funding the Iraq Debacle. The bill has some similarities to the Reid-Feingold framework, but, in my view, has too much complicating provisions, such as a prohibition on increasing the number of troops in the interim period. This is of questionable Constitutionality, in my view, and unnecessarily muddies the waters. Better would be a House version of the Reid-Feingold framework, which is a "clean" proposal, so to speak. The focus should be on the date of withdrawal, March 31, 2008 in the Reid-Feingold proposal, not the conduct of the Debacle until the date is reached.

That said, Greg is right when he says:

Here's why this is important. While the chances of passage of the measure are virtually nonexistent, it's the first time that House liberals have been able to leverage a straight yes-or-know vote on withdrawal. "It's huge," said one legislative aide. "It changes the dynamic. It means there will be more and more votes on straight measures like this."

On another front, Greg reports that:

Dems think they now do have the votes to pass the short-term funding bill.

This is the short leash bill from Rep. Obey, ironically first floated by Blue Dogs.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Caving (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 10:53:25 AM EST
    ...the Republican Party is firmly for indefinitely continuing the Iraq War and at odds with the vast majority of the American people who want an end to the war.

    It is the Blank Check Democrats, however, that raise the tough questions.
    ...
    We will see today just how far these Blank Check Democrats are willing to go in undermining their own party and the will of the American public.
    ...
    Whether Pelosi uses these levers - and whether rank-and-file Democrats demand she uses these levers - will tell us a lot not only about the Democratic Party's commitment to ending the war, but about it's commitment to all the other promises America was given in exchange for its votes in 2006.

    Link

    Blank Check Democrats can kiss my (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 10, 2007 at 11:45:27 AM EST
    blankety blank!

    Parent
    I wish them whatever success they may find (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 10, 2007 at 11:44:27 AM EST
    but also agree with you about the cap on troop numbers.  Withdrawal will go more speedily and less loss of life likely if there is help arriving for that effort.  Capping troop strength could mean fewer troops to help vulnerable Iraqis relocate too.

    pda, democrats.com, true majority, etc. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by conchita on Thu May 10, 2007 at 12:16:51 PM EST
    are urging support of mcgovern - call your rep, etc.  no time to write more at this point, but found it interesting to note that the progressive activist groups who work with the house progressives (as opposed to independently) have come out strongly pro hr 2237.

    The letter (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 01:24:33 PM EST
    to CPC and OOIC members:
    Waters, Lee, Woolsey Urge YES Vote on McGovern Bill, But Fail to Urge NO Vote on Supplemental
    link

    italics mine

    Parent

    Donklephants (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 02:13:32 PM EST
    Theater of Death:
    ...for our ruling elites, the suffering and death of innocent people, American, Iraqi or of any other nationality, are not of primary importance. In the perverse scheme of their priorities, such matters appear well down on the list. Their major and often sole concern is political power: its acquisition, its maintenance and its expansion. Tactics of only one kind are their concern: the means by which their own power is maintained and enhanced.

    It is deeply regrettable, and also inevitable - since the world of political blogs cannot be other than a reflection of the larger culture - that this same indifference to human pain and suffering infects the approach of the great majority of political bloggers. For all their ferocious opposition to the Bush administration and to Republicans generally, [some] liberal and progressive bloggers act as if they are largely indifferent to bringing about a quick end to the incomprehensibly deadly Iraq occupation. They certainly demonstrate no sustained, serious effort to pressure Congressional Democrats into defunding the war - or into acting to oppose an attack on Iran in every way possible.  The concerns of these bloggers and the Washington Democrats are perfectly coextensive: they will condemn the Iraq war and act to block an attack on Iran only to the degree such actions will not endanger their perceived political opportunities in 2008.

    The Bush Veto, the Democrats' Response, and Why Millions Must Break with the Politics of Empire:
    When Bush vetoed the bill, and the Democrats failed to override it, they immediately began talking about concessions: giving Bush the money he wanted and removing any timetables for troop withdrawals. Simply refusing to fund the war (including by filibustering) wasn't considered.
    ...
    This whole dynamic of riding the anti-war vote to power, then voting to fund an ongoing war while claiming to be ending it, reflect the conflicting necessities the Democrats face. As representatives of U.S. imperialism, they are committed to maintaining U.S. global dominance.
    STOP Funding The Iraq War
    Shank: So why has Congress been so timid in exercising its authority to fund or not fund the war?

    Kucinich: I think that's a question that requires a deeper understanding of the primary process that produced candidates that may not have been so strongly in favor of ending the war. But the surge that happened in the November elections was a profoundly anti-war surge that carried in all the Democrats, whatever their positions were. And now we find ourselves in this paradox: the American people demanding an end to the war and the Democratic Congress saying "hey, not so fast, here's a Democratic version of the war that we want you to look at as opposed to a Republican version of the war."

    I think that as the American people realize what's happened here they're going to be outraged and they're going to lose faith in the Democratic Party.



    Don't give up, Armando. (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 02:31:22 PM EST
    Time then (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Alien Abductee on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:25:39 PM EST
    for some party discipline from the leadership. Why are the personal opinions of individual Blue Dog Dems or their concerns about holding onto their own seats being allowed to take precedence over the strategy that's needed for the party as a whole?

    Parent
    Well... maybe (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:28:09 PM EST
    I was really think more along the lines of time for some discipline for the party leadership. Some integrity, too.

    Parent
    Like (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:29:23 PM EST
    maybe a good hard whack upside the head.

    Parent
    I posted this (none / 0) (#28)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:39:17 PM EST
    back on March 13 after the text of the supplemental was released:

    Pelosi And Democratic Leadership Cave In To Cheney, Bush And Blue Dog Democrats

    Nearly a million dead Iraqis and more than 3000 dead US soldiers (American kids) and tens of thousands maimed for life later, in a rethuglican version of climbing over bodies to make it to the top, George W. Bush's Iraq and Mid-East Debacle is turning out to be very profitable for his friends. Among whom can now be counted Nancy Pelosi and the top level Democratic Party leadership.

    I might have to bump it back to the top after today, because I'll probably be too disgusted to write the same thing in different words.

    Parent

    Apparently (none / 0) (#29)
    by Alien Abductee on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:45:46 PM EST
    word is now that the Blue Dogs are NOT caving, and in fact the short-term funding bill will pick up two votes.

    Maybe Aravosis' quick action last night helped apply a little needed pressure.

    Parent

    Ummm... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:59:12 PM EST
    That's kind of what I meant by caving.

    Waters, Lee, and Woolsey have urged their colleagues to vote YES on McGovern's bill, but have failed to urge them to vote NO on the Supplemental


    Parent
    I guess there is (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 05:50:28 PM EST
    no "might" about it.

    Parent
    The Democrats Don't Own the Antiwar Movement (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 06:53:28 PM EST
    By Bruce K. Gagnon:
    The unified message that the Democrat leaders are talking about is that the mess in Iraq is all the fault of George W. Bush and the Republicans in Congress. This theme is now dominating the work coming out of these Democratic Party front groups and their job is to make sure that no one points any fingers of responsibility at the Democrats in Congress who continue to fund the occupation. We are not supposed to talk about that unsettling fact.
    ...
    Thus the only politician that can be criticized publicly, according to the strategy coming out of the Democrats in Washington, is the Republican.

    This is a contemptuous rewriting of reality for purely political purposes.
    ...
    People are reacting around the world to arrogant imperialism. They are reacting in Maine and across America as the Democrats try to take over the peace movement for their 2008 electoral purposes.

    In the end the Democrats will fail in their conquering mission. The peace movement belongs to no political party.



    Parent
    That Everest article... (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by dutchfox on Thu May 10, 2007 at 10:40:32 PM EST
    on Znet was great. Thanks.

    Parent
    If the United States leaves Iraq (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 02:58:54 PM EST
    If the United States leaves Iraq things will really get bad:
    This appears to be the last remaining, barely-breathing argument of that vanishing species who still support the god-awful war. The argument implies a deeply-felt concern about the welfare and safety of the Iraqi people. What else could it mean? That the US military can't leave because it's needed to protect the oil bonanza awaiting American oil companies as soon as the Iraqi parliament approves the new written-in-Washington oil law? No, the Bush administration loves the people of Iraq. How much more destruction, killing and torturing do you need to be convinced of that? We can't leave because of the violence. We can't leave until we have assured that peace returns to our dear comrades in Iraq.

    To better understand this argument, it helps to keep in mind the following about the daily horror that is life in Iraq:    

    • It did not exist before the US occupation.

    Has there ever been an empire that didn't tell itself and the world that it was unlike all other empires, that its mission was not to plunder and control but to educate and liberate? And that it had God on its side?

    Will America's immune system be able to rid itself of its raw-meat conservatives?



    That's Progress? (1.00 / 1) (#1)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 10:35:12 AM EST
    No. But a sure veto. And to what end? To send a message? I think Bush already acknowledged a message was sent. Now what we need is real progress.

    Meanwhile much to some peoples chagrin there are new reports everyday of bi-partisan talks going on to try to forge a consensus that will either produce a bill with oversight that Bush would finally sign or a Veto Proof Majority - an option that is gaining popularity and steam.

    I wish them great success (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 10, 2007 at 11:21:13 AM EST
    in their endeavor:

    Meanwhile much to some peoples chagrin there are new reports everyday of bi-partisan talks going on to try to forge a consensus that will either produce a bill with oversight that Bush would finally sign or a Veto Proof Majority - an option that is gaining popularity and steam.

    I believe theu have ZERO chance of achieving it:

    "Enough is enough. It is time to get a clean bill to the president's desk and really support our troops," House Minority Leader John A. Boehner said as he received a petition signed by 2,700 current and former service members in support of continuing the war in Iraq.

    "The consequences of failure are too ominous to even comprehend," the Ohio Republican said. "If we don't take on the terrorists and we are not willing to take on the terrorists in Iraq, where do we draw the line and when do we stand up to protect the safety and interests of the American people?"

    Boehner was one of the Eleven who met with Bush on Tuesday. There is your movement.

    Parent

    Think!!!! (none / 0) (#11)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 12:48:08 PM EST
    Boehner was one of the Eleven who met with Bush on Tuesday. There is your movement.

    Obviously Boehner  is not part of the movement.

    Did it ever cross your mind that he was there policing his caucus? Ot that the WH only allowed the meeting with the Minority Leaders presence?

    Of course the obvious didn't cross your mind because that would not provide the excuse you sought to down play the meeting.

    Parent

    What crossed my mind is (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 10, 2007 at 12:49:34 PM EST
    that like P.T. Barnum, Rove did not get poor underestimating the intelligence of his audience.

    Parent
    Whatever That Is Supposed To Mean! (none / 0) (#14)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 01:16:08 PM EST
    Another one of your cryptic responses from the far side of the moon?

    Parent
    How many Republicans (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 10:44:08 AM EST
    are on board and committed publicly to supporting a bill to defund and force withdrawal? By when? How many more are needed?

    Numbers.

    Parent

    kagro at dkos (none / 0) (#5)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 11:26:56 AM EST
    brought up a good point regarding this bill that I also wanted to acknowledge.

    "it's a necessary concession to the Out of Iraq and Progressive Caucuses, who had to swallow their pride and make the tough votes in the last round of Iraq funding..."

    OK. As a concession vote to that caucus it is important. This is politics after all.

    It will fail miserably with even Dem's voting against it. And it may provide anti-withdrawal fodder for the Right who will tout how few Dem's actually will vote for withdrawal. So in that sense it could prove to be counter-productive in the PR wars. But if Pelosi felt it was necessary to appease the Left of the Party with a vote then so be it - we will have to live with any damage it causes.

    Parent

    I do not think this vote helps (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 10, 2007 at 11:35:41 AM EST
    SO I agree with you there.

    And the reason for the vote is largely for the reasons you state, to give the Out of Iraq Cauucus cover for caving in on the stupid approach the Speaker is pursuing.

    Let me be clear, I carenot one whit about benchmarks and advisory timelines.

    What we need is a STATED date certain for NOT funding.

    All the rest is counterproductive noise.

    To wit, the approach you favor is, in my mind, not productive. It requires sufficient GOP support to override the Bush veto, which will never happen.

    It is bad politics, giving cover to "moderate" Republicans while getting us no closer to the goal of ending the war.

    Parent

    Glory Glory We Agree - - But... (none / 0) (#10)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 12:32:43 PM EST
    What we need is a STATED date certain for NOT funding.

    Without a Veto Proof Majority the only way that will work is at the End Date we DO NOT send up a bill of any kind. That isn't going to happen in your lifetime.

    It is bad politics, giving cover to "moderate" Republicans while getting us no closer to the goal of ending the war.

    Disagree. This is not about the politics of making your opponent look bad or good...

    This is about ending the war.

    You may want to reaccess you feelings on that one...

    Or at least keep them to yourself because they don't sound to good - putting politics over ending the war. For Shame.


    Parent

    You live in a dreamworld Talex (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 10, 2007 at 12:48:31 PM EST
    You write:

    Without a Veto Proof Majority the only way that will work is at the End Date we DO NOT send up a bill of any kind. That isn't going to happen in your lifetime.

    My approach only requires Democrats. It does not require defunding now, it requires SAYING there will be no more funding after March 31, 2008. That requires ZERO GOP support.

    You argue for a veto proof majority which requires 89 GOP House members and 17 GOP Senators to agree. The dreamworld you live in is obvious to any sentient being.  

    You write:

    "It is bad politics, giving cover to "moderate" Republicans while getting us no closer to the goal of ending the war."

    Disagree. This is not about the politics of making your opponent look bad or good...

    This is about ending the war.

    Indeed, your advice is what the House leadership is not following. They are playing politics.

    You I absolve of this. You simply are pie in the sky. I think they are cynically playing politics.

    May I suggest that both your thinking and theirs is counterproductive on all levels.

    Parent

    Your last line (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 10, 2007 at 01:52:59 PM EST
    makes this a deleted comment.

    Stick to the topic at hand.

    Cool (none / 0) (#19)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    But the point was obviously made which is what counts - not the perpetuity of my post.

    Anytime you want to debate the consequences of your proposed actions just let me know.

    Parent

    Why should he? (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Edger on Thu May 10, 2007 at 02:34:40 PM EST
    You don't.

    Parent
    Cha ching (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 10, 2007 at 02:49:31 PM EST
    Sure I (none / 0) (#33)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 06:49:51 PM EST
    discuss and debate with Big Tent. What are you talking about?

    Parent
    I don't think so (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 11, 2007 at 12:10:48 PM EST
    Anytime you want to debate the consequences of your proposed actions just let me know.

    Parent
    Where Is The Reason (none / 0) (#37)
    by talex on Fri May 11, 2007 at 01:15:25 PM EST
    for your opinion?

    If you are going to say someone does not debate as you did to me and then you offer up an answer like you just did that gives no explanation or reason for your opinion then I'd have to say you are not much of a debater yourself as you offer nothing that even resembles debate.

    Your turn.

    Parent

    What are the consequences of your (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 11, 2007 at 01:26:53 PM EST
    proposed actions?

    Parent
    Do you understand why (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 10, 2007 at 03:23:38 PM EST
    I deleted your comment? I do not want to have to do it again.

    Discussing my professional life is unneeded and unwanted here.

    Parent

    Yes I Do Know Why (none / 0) (#32)
    by talex on Thu May 10, 2007 at 06:47:52 PM EST
    You made that clear.

    I was just paralleling two different things. A disconnect.

    Parent