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MSNBC Permits Obvious GOP Falsehood

Just now on MSNBC, Condessa Brewer permitted GOP talking head Ron Christie to repeat the falsehood that Al Gore claimed he invented the Internet.

Supposedly Christie and James Boyce, the Democratic talking head, were to discuss the prospect of Gore runnning in 2008. But, as is usual on cable news, falsehoods were presented as opinion. By now, EVERYONE knows that Al Gore did NOT say he invented the Internet. In fact, I was a little shocked to hear Christie not only repeat the falsehood, but to get indignant when Boyce called him on it.

MSNBC has done some good things of late and I know that Jeralyn has great respect for Dan Abrams, who manages the cable network now. But please stop folks from appearing on your shows and spewing obvious falsehoods, whether they are Democrats or Republicans. The Al Gore Internet falsehood has been so thoroughly debunked that Condessa Brewer should have stopped Christie. Either she did not know it is false or she was too timid to do it. She needs to learn from Chris Matthews.

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    Trivial as this may be ... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:50:27 PM EST
     can we all just agree that Gore used language which as commonly understood grossly overstated his role in the further devleopment of the internet as it already  existed at the time he made his miniscule contribution and that  there would be no difference today if Gore had never been born?

    No we can't agree (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Alien Abductee on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:23:37 PM EST
    The Internet in its technical, social, and legal existence could easily have been very different if different choices had been made than what Gore led on.

    Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf:

    When the Internet was still in the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual leadership by helping create the vision of the potential benefits of high speed computing and communication.  As an example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises.

    As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an "Interagency Network."  Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush's administrations, Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991.  This "Gore Act" supported the National Research and Education Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

    As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it.  He served as the major administration proponent for continued investment in advanced computing and networking and private sector initiatives such as Net Day. He was and is a strong proponent of extending access to the network to schools and libraries.  Today, approximately 95% of our nation's schools are on the Internet. Gore provided much-needed political support for the speedy privatization of the Internet when the time arrived for it to become a commercially-driven operation.

    For example, if the top-down content vision the telecoms and cable providers are trying to impose on it now had been allowed to take root from the beginning, there's no way we'd be having this discussion here today because the innovation that went into the technology underlying it would have been smothered in the cradle.

    Parent

    Gore didn't brag (none / 0) (#29)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:39:55 PM EST
    Cerf certainly said the internet was heavily influenced by Gore. I have  a friend who worked in DC when Gore was a Congressman and who went to some of the talks (including on the Mall) and said Gore was persuasive about the future and potential of the internet.

    Parent
    Alien (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:55:09 PM EST
    Actually Gore was supportive of high speed data transmission. He was as happy with the North Carolina Information Super Highway, which was an early ATM based transport system as he was later with an IP based system. Both ATM and IP have advantages and disadvantages, but by the early 90's IP was the clear winner over ATM for universal coverage while ATM was, and is, the clear winner for transport pipes with QOS and the ability to do "contracts."

    The content came into play when everyone was trying to figire out how to put fiber to the home, with all the various schemes for voice and video, fiber to the curb, telo's being channel systems and vice versa... The latest is TV over IP with the "last mile" still causing problems.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:57:30 PM EST
    You would have to make a case for that statement.

    Can you provide us the basis of your statement?

    Parent

    common sense (none / 0) (#11)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:59:53 PM EST
     and no dog in the fight.

    Parent
    Common sense is not a fact based argument (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:05:34 PM EST
    For example, Vint Cerf is consider an Internet pioneer and he responded to MSNBC in 1999 on this very issue. He wrote:

    Vint Cerf responded to MSNBC's questions about the Net's origins with this e-mail:

    VP Gore was the first or surely among the first of the members of Congress to become a strong supporter of advanced networking while he served as Senator. As far back as 1986, he was holding hearings on this subject (supercomputing, fiber networks...) and asking about their promise and what could be done to realize them. Bob Kahn, with whom I worked to develop the Internet design in 1973, participated in several hearings held by then-Senator Gore and I recall that Bob introduced the term ``information infrastructure'' in one hearing in 1986. It was clear that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it.

    As Senator, VP Gore was highly supportive of the research community's efforts to explore new networking capabilities and to extend access to supercomputers by way of NSFNET and its successors, the High Performance Computing and Communication program (which included the National Research and Education Network initiative), and as Vice President, he has been very responsive to recommendations made, for example, by the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee that endorsed additional research funding for next generation fundamental research in software and related topics. If you look at the last 30-35 years of network development, you'll find many people who have made major contributions without which the Internet would not be the vibrant, growing and exciting thing it is today. The creation of a new information infrastructure requires the willing efforts of thousands if not millions of participants and we've seen leadership from many quarters, all of it needed, to move the Internet towards increased availability and utility around the world.

    While it is not accurate to say that VP Gore invented Internet, he has played a powerful role in policy terms that has supported its continued growth and application, for which we should be thankful.

    We're fortunate to have senior level members of Congress and the Administration who embrace new technology and have the vision to see how it can be put to work for national and global benefit.

    It sounds very much along the lines of what Gore was saying.

    Parent

    He didn't invent it, He didn't create it. (4.00 / 4) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:14:44 PM EST
    Invent
    archaic : FIND, DISCOVER
    2 : to devise by thinking : FABRICATE
    3 : to produce (as something useful) for the first time through the use of the imagination or of ingenious thinking and experiment

    create

    bring into existence <God created the heaven and the earth --Gen 1:1 (Authorized Version)>
    2 a : to invest with a new form, office, or rank <was created a lieutenant> b : to produce or bring about by a course of action or behavior <her arrival created a terrible fuss> <create new jobs>
    3 : CAUSE, OCCASION <famine creates high food prices>

    4 a : to produce through imaginative skill <create a painting> b : DESIGN <creates dresses>
    intransitive senses
    : to make or bring into existence something new

    He also didn't create the Internet.

    He was very helpful in passing laws, etc.

    But that is like saying the Pope painted the Sistine Chapel..

    He also managed to get a tax placed on your phone bill...


    My hats off to you Jim (none / 0) (#53)
    by Freewill on Sat May 19, 2007 at 11:18:03 AM EST
    However on this statement I'll agree and also disagree:

    He also managed to get a tax placed on your phone bill...

    Yeah that tax was supposed to be used by the Telcos to upgrade all of the communication lines in America but because no oversight was enforced upon the Telcos it didn't happen. Now, the Telcos want more money from us to once again upgrade our lines and make what they promised back in the 90's happen now in 2007. Go figure! No Oversight and no removal of that particular tax once the party opposed to taxes gained control! Why didn't they hold the Telcos accountable for their promises?

    Parent

    Freewill (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 19, 2007 at 02:40:10 PM EST
    Actually the tax in question was to provide internet service to the schools.

    Link

    Parent

    Gore's words from your link (1.00 / 3) (#1)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri May 18, 2007 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

    OK so the claim is he created it rather than invented it?  Thats quite the nuance.

    Did you not read the entire discussion (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:11:10 PM EST
    at that link or what?

    Once again the problem is the right refuses to countenance facts which oppose thier ideology. As Stephen Colbert would say, the facts have an obvious liberal bias.



    Parent

    Sure (2.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:35:30 PM EST
    I read the whole thing.  I quoted the sentence that is meant to stick.

    Parent
    Quarterman (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:42:34 PM EST
    Perhaps this will help

    If I may paraphrase, Gore built the Internet in the same way as a mayor builds a bridge: neither by drawing up blueprints nor by welding steel; rather by facilitating its construction.

    Or do you deny the fact that Gore took the lead in congress on this issue?



    Parent

    Just to put things into perspective (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Al on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:16:34 PM EST
    Gore was the author of the High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991. You can read about its significance here.

    Your lot think the world was created 4,000 years ago.

    Parent

    Just to put things into perspective (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:29:10 PM EST
    the internet was invented in the '60s, which, if my math is correct, is before 1991.

    In fact, he was not yet even a congressman when the term "Internet" first came into use.

    That he helped its growth and distribution I think is fair to say.

    Are there many who hindered its growth and distribution?

    Parent

    Vint Cerf disagrees with you (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:22:53 PM EST
    Al Gore and the Internet

    By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf

    Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.

    No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community.  But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President.  No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.

    Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet."  We don't think, as some people have
    argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's
    initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and
    promoting the Internet long before most people were listening.  We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.

    As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system.   He was the first elected official
    to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily
    forgotten, now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept.  Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even
    earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. When the Internet was still in the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual leadership by helping create the vision of the potential
    benefits of high speed computing and communication.  As an example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural
    disasters and other crises.

    As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks
    into an "Interagency Network."  Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush's administrations, Gore secured
    the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991.  This "Gore Act" supported the National Research and Education
    Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

    As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it.  He served as the major administration proponent for continued investment in advanced computing and networking and private
    sector initiatives . . .



    Parent
    Could you be more specific? (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:35:15 PM EST
    In what way does he disagree wiht me, er, my link?

    Parent
    Why here (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:15:07 PM EST
    there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's
    initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and
    promoting the Internet long before most people were listening.

    That completely supports Gore's statement.

    You disprove something no one said.

    But you go girl.  

    Parent

    Sigh. (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:27:32 PM EST
    The internet was created in 1969 and earlier.

    Gore certainly helped with the growth and promotion of it from sometime in the 70s.

    He had nothing to do with its creation.

    Girl.

    Parent

    Oy (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 06:02:19 PM EST
    The Internet is STILL being created.

    For example, thew World Wide Web was created in 1990.

    "Still evolving" is the point. What the Internet was in the 1960s bears next to no resemblance as to what it is today.

    But you know this of course and are only acting the idiot. I know you to be an very intelligent fellow.

    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 06:23:26 PM EST
    that's your point.

    My Dad worked for Bell Labs designing telephony switches of which some were undoubtedly used in the early days of the net, and of which I assume some modern switches are derivative of, I suppose he can also claim to have created the internet?

    A friend's dad worked as an exec for Mohawk Data Sciences, a computer maker, back in the day, I suppose he can claim to have created the computer?

    Gore has some effect on the Dem party, which is still evolving, can he claim to have created the Democratic Party?

    America is still "evolving," I guess all of us Americans can claim that we created America?

    You often are good, BTD, but not this time.

    Parent

    If Gore had claimed to create it (none / 0) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 19, 2007 at 07:37:10 AM EST
    then this would make sense:

    "I suppose he can also claim to have created the internet?"

    You are often good Sarc, this is not one of those times.


    Parent

    The iNet was not invented in the 60's (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:57:01 PM EST
    and that's not the topic of this thread.

    Parent
    BTD is off-topic on his own blog thread? (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:05:00 PM EST
    That's odd...

    Ah well, maybe we should let him respond for himself? He's usually capable.

    Parent

    SUO (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:04:18 PM EST
    Here is a link that goes back a bit... 36 plus years

    All you geeks check out the 1971 diagram with its PDP10's, IBM 1800's....

    Aw the days of wine and DS1's.....

    Parent

    1969 (none / 0) (#35)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:10:35 PM EST
    Around Labor Day in 1969, BBN delivered an Interface Message Processor (IMP) to UCLA that was based on a Honeywell DDP 516, and when they turned it on, it just started running. It was hooked by 50 Kbps circuits to two other sites (SRI and UCSB) in the four-node network: UCLA, Stanford Research Institute (SRI), UC Santa Barbara (UCSB), and the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

     The plan was unprecedented: Kleinrock, a pioneering computer science professor at UCLA, and his small group of graduate students hoped to log onto the Stanford computer and try to send it some data.They would start by typing "login," and seeing if the letters appeared on the far-off monitor.  

    "We set up a telephone connection between us and the guys at SRI...," Kleinrock ... said in an interview: "We typed the L and we asked on the phone,

    "Do you see the L?"
    "Yes, we see the L," came the response.
    "We typed the O, and we asked, "Do you see the O."
    "Yes, we see the O."
    "Then we typed the G, and the system crashed"...

    Yet a revolution had begun...

    Was Gore even in congress in '69?


    Parent
    Will those liberals never stop lying? (none / 0) (#60)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat May 19, 2007 at 09:29:50 PM EST
    "In all fairness, it's something Gore had worked on a long time. Gore is not the Father of the Internet, but in all fairness Gore is the person who, in the Congress, most systematically worked to make sure that we got to an Internet, and the truth is ... I worked with him starting in 1978 when I got there, we were both part of a 'futures group.' The fact is, in the Clinton administration the world we had talked about in the '80s began to actually happen. You can see it in your own life, between the Internet, the computer, the cellphone."

    -Newt Gingrich



    Parent
    scar (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 19, 2007 at 11:04:57 PM EST
    The cellphone was an extension of Mobile Telephone Service - MTS - which became Improved Mobile Telephone Service - IMTS - There was no "breakthrough invention."

    Same for the personal computer, which was around in the late 70's to a large degree, although it took IBM to drive a standard operating system - DOS - and making a lot of people rich at the same time. The miracle of Windows was that it had its own operating system and Word, and Excel and PowerPoint.... Thus freezing out a host of systems designed to operate with DOS.

    If you really want to know about who is responsible for all the high tech stuff we take for granted, that would be Gordon Moore and Intel.

    Parent

    Gore would be much harder to smear (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:00:27 PM EST
    this time around.

    Amen to that andgarden (none / 0) (#18)
    by Freewill on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:10:15 PM EST
    During the 2000 election we didn't use the Internet in the same manor in which we do now. It's going to be much tougher to simply make stupid catch phrases stick as long as we all are afforded this computer information technology that Al Gore helped legislate into existence!

    Power to the people!

    Parent

    Apparently not (see comments). (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Fri May 18, 2007 at 06:44:36 PM EST
    Yeah, your right (none / 0) (#51)
    by Freewill on Sat May 19, 2007 at 08:47:09 AM EST
    Wishful thinking on my part.

     Hell, Botox shots to the face, Orange tan lines, Cigar Jokes, Racist Campaign Commercials and just down right negative comments against ones opponents are harped upon and accepted as fact by the majority in this Nation.

    Once again I thought the reason for this particular thread was about the media allowing obvious false statements to be accepted as fact but, clearly as demonstrated everyone is harping about one sentence that the Republican Party used to try and cartoon Gore with. Republicans surely do understand what focuses America's ideas of debate and for some odd reason many on the Left accept that script and take it all hook, line and sinker.

    I've always believed that being positive creates positive outcomes and negativity only breeds more negativity. I'm probably wrong on that assumption as well.

    <hangs head in shame for being such a doofus>

    Parent

    Knotty (none / 0) (#5)
    by Semanticleo on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:17:19 PM EST
    Contessa Brewer is an air-head of zepplin proportions and should NEVER be involved in anything but entertainment news.  Chris Matthews is smarter,
    but only recently found his voice(when polls indicated his minority status as War correspondent)
    on the debacle known as Iraq.  The incompetence
    of news bureaus (electronic and paper) closely mirrors the WH and Pentagon leadership.  Don't expect much help on issues which don't incite viewership.

    Chip Reid just broke the record (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:19:57 PM EST
    for worst reporting I have ever seen.

    I am waiting to see what I can get on it for evidence but it was the worstI have ever seen.

    No one said he (none / 0) (#13)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:10:20 PM EST
     wasn't supportive of the efforts of others or "well-nformed."

      How does that translate into the assertion his existence on the planet made a whit's difference in what happened,  let alone that he took the initiative in the creation of the internet?

     

    Sounds like you have abandoned (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:17:46 PM EST
    common sense now and have chosen a dog in this hunt.

    While in Congress he took the initiative in ways Congressmen do. That is what he said.

    You seem to have lost your common sense on the issue now.

    I am sorry to see that happen. I was really looking forward to seeing your reasoned reaction to the facts.

    Parent

    Facts? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Deconstructionist on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:30:17 PM EST
      The only "facts" in this entire thread is that Gore did not say he invented the internet and that he did say he took the initiative in its creation.

      Show me one single, solitary fact remotely supporting the argument that the internet today we be even slightly different if Al Gore never lived. If I support something's development and it develops that in no way supports the conclusion that it would not have developed in the absence of MY support.

      Identify one concrete program whose existence was dependent on the fact Al Gore was for it and would not exist but for his support.

      Sponsoring legislation is great. It does not mean  it would not have been sponsored and passed in the same form without his sponsorship and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that without Gore's "vision and determination" to overcome these ephemeral obstacles you imply existed events would not have followed exactly the same course.

    Parent

    Well, to be fair (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:43:43 PM EST
    Show me one single, solitary fact remotely supporting the argument that the internet today we be even slightly different if Al Gore never lived.
    if he never lived, there would be about 31 million fewer google "hits" on the internet. Maybe that's what he meant?

    (Joking, in case it wasn't obvious)

    Parent

    Did W "create" the Iraqi Debacle? (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:12:10 PM EST
    after all, he never fired a gun!

    Parent
    Big Tent (none / 0) (#19)
    by Freewill on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:20:04 PM EST
    Awesome post!

    But please stop folks from appearing on your shows and spewing obvious falsehoods, whether they are Democrats or Republicans.

    How true, how true, how totally true!

    Last night I was blown away with Chris Matthews when he checked that Georgia Congressman. That was a moment that needs to taught to each and every media degree seeking student!

    Chris Matthews:

    "That is not an acceptable argument!  These comparisons to previous eras...it's lazy thinking, Congressman. It's the kind of propaganda that does not help this country understand the situation. You stepped into a dishonest comparison. Some people come on this show over and over again saying things that-JUST-aren't-true."

    When the public starts demanding the truth from the media is when we will start seeing the media become truthful. However, we as society are too damned lazy to conduct the research to hold these individuals accountable for their laziness. Americans want everything spoon fed to us in small, pre-chewed bits so it's easy to swallow. If the message is longer than 30 seconds it's hard for the masses to repeat the message. That's why all we hear are short little fallacies meant to play upon our emotions and not intelligence!

    Thank you for this thread BTD!


    logic 101 (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:31:35 PM EST
    they said gore said he invented the internet. Gore didn't say that. Case closed.

    He didn't even say he created the internet:" I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

    More here.


    The internet (none / 0) (#22)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:36:44 PM EST
    was created in the '60s. Case closed.

    Parent
    wrong (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:14:39 PM EST
    and beside the point. The point is about the MSM repeating republican lies.

    and it's amazing how supporters of a man who speaks like this during written and rehearsed speeches want to parse so closely an extemporaneous remark made once during a live interview.


    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:16:56 PM EST
    Gore wasn't even a congresscritter yet when the term "Internet" came into use.

    Parent
    OFF TOPIC (none / 0) (#38)
    by Sailor on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:25:56 PM EST
    the topic, for the learning impaired, is about the MSM continuing to repeat RNC talking points that 'gore claimed to have invented the internet.'

    Try facts for a change, they're good for you.

    Parent

    You are too funny (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:28:33 PM EST
    and wrong to boot!

    Parent
    Jane, you ignorant slut (none / 0) (#41)
    by Sailor on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:55:18 PM EST
    The topic:
    Just now on MSNBC, Condessa Brewer permitted GOP talking head Ron Christie to repeat the falsehood that Al Gore claimed he invented the Internet.
    That's the topic.

    Parent
    Correct of course (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:58:43 PM EST
    But you are wasting your time with Sarc.

    Parent
    Sailor (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:30:03 PM EST
    During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet

    Gore's problem is that he likes to overstate things.. There is this, there is the "Love Story" model for... There was the flight he wasn't on, or didn't take... and he continues this pattern with his Global Warming BS.

    The words "create" and "invent" are different, but close enough that the vast majority see them as the same. And without his penchant for over statement, the problem would have quickly disappeared.

    As I said, he no more created the Internet than the Pope painted the Sistine Chapel. Politicans who supply the money but not the intellect or the talent should satisfy themselves with saying, "during my adminsitration we provided the funds.."

    That is an important thing to have done. It doesn't need any gold plating.

    Parent

    wrong as always (none / 0) (#37)
    by Sailor on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:23:00 PM EST
    And without his penchant for over statement, the problem would have quickly disappeared.
    No, without serial liars in the rnc and the MSMs willingness to just repeat every rethug talking point as if it were a fact it would have disappeared.

    In fact, you've parroted this obvious and disproven lie before.

    As I said, he no more created the Internet than the Pope painted the Sistine Chapel.
    a$$holes and oranges. Perhaps if you'd said 'the pope created the sistine chapel' there would be some comparison. Or even if you'd stated 'no more than Michelangelo painted the sistine chapel' there would be an intersection of some sets, but the arg you used is specious. The pope (Sixtus IV) arguably created the sistine chapel. In the same way as folks claim to have built their houses, when all they did was write checks.

    IRT politicians actually saying they created something (and not just initiated) check out all the things that bush claims to have created.

    Parent

    Sailor (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:51:45 PM EST
    I don't care what Bush claims to have created.

    Please try your nonsense on a partisan Repub.

    Parent

    Global Warming BS? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri May 18, 2007 at 06:30:12 PM EST
    Off topic but since you brought it up:

    The Southern Ocean around Antarctica is so loaded with carbon dioxide that it can barely absorb any more, so more of the gas will stay in the atmosphere to warm up the planet, scientists reported Thursday.

    Human activity is the main culprit, said researcher Corinne Le Quere, who called the finding very alarming.

    The phenomenon wasn't expected to be apparent for decades, Le Quere said in a telephone interview from the University of East Anglia in Britain.

    "We thought we would be able to detect these only the second half of this century, say 2050 or so," she said. But data from 1981 through 2004 show the sink is already full of carbon dioxide. "So I find this really quite alarming."



    Parent

    MB (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 18, 2007 at 09:52:21 PM EST
    The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

    Not.

    Parent

    facts (none / 0) (#49)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri May 18, 2007 at 11:24:46 PM EST
    do not concern you, it is clear.



    Parent

    MB (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 19, 2007 at 08:52:41 AM EST
    When you can quit talking about consensus and get rid of the qualifiers, let me know.

    At that point you will have facts.

    Now you have faith that sun wiill be eaten by the Moon God and you will live in darkness forever unless a virgin is sacrificed.

    Parent

    What qualifiers? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat May 19, 2007 at 11:52:08 AM EST
    You keep sayning without qualification that global warming is BS. Despite the consensus of the scientific community that that it is real.

    You object to consensus of the scientific community? Interesting. You would prefer the view of a crackpot minority?

    Let see. There are some flat earthers out there who maintain the earth is flat. The consensus of the scientific community is ...

    There are some people who believe the sun revolves around the earth. The consensus of the scientific community is ...

    And you accuse me of "faith that sun wiill be eaten by the Moon God and you will live in darkness forever unless a virgin is sacrificed"?



    Parent

    MB (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 19, 2007 at 10:47:32 PM EST
    Nope. Not true. As you know because I have stated it time and again, I don't believe that it has been proven that man is causing GW.

    And I don't believe in consensus science because:

    1. It isn't science.

    2. It has qualifiers stuck all in it.

    BTW: It is proven and demonstratable fact that the earth revolves around the sun.

    See, you appear to not even understand the difference between fact and theory.

    BTW: Can you tell me this:

    Is the increase in cardon dixode causing GW?

    Or is GW causing the increase in carbon dixode?

    Can you link to an explanation of water vapor's role in the earth's temperature and show how it has been included in the various studies?

    Can you link to an explanation of the sun's role in GW, and explain why the earth's increase corresponds to the increase in sun spots?

    Can you link to an explanation of the increase in sun spots and and a warming trend on Mars??

    Parent

    You can believe anything you want (none / 0) (#64)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun May 20, 2007 at 10:12:53 AM EST
    Given that you believe in the dubious ever shifting rationales of the Iraq war, your steadfast beleif that the GOP is strong on issues of national security despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I can't take seriously your beliefs.

    In any event, it appears you are the one who doesn't understand the term theory as used in science as opposed to the way it is often used in common vernacular.

    In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment.

    Now tell me, what is your expertise that I should take your apriori beliefs over the statements of these science organizations (to name a few)?

    1. American Geophysical Union
    2. American Institute of Physics
    3. American Astronomical Society
    4. Federal Climate Change Science Program, 2006
    5. American Association for the Advancement of Science
    6. Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
    7. Geological Society of America
    8. American Association of State Climatologists
    9. Australian Medical Association
    10. American Chemical Society
    11. American Quaternary Association
    12. Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)

    These are organizations whose members are experts in their field.

    Do you think in this area they have decided to make the  wild guess approach to theory as opposed to the usual scientfic approach? Why?

    Do you think they have taken  group leave of their senses? Do you think their are in the hip pocket of Al Gore? Do you think these scientists are in some sort of vast Al Gore Conspiracy to deliberately falsify data?

    The problem with conservatives is they will not accept any facts which does not conform to their ideology, "facts having a well known liberal bias."



    Parent

    OFF TOPIC TROLL POST AND PERSONAL ATTACK (none / 0) (#59)
    by Sailor on Sat May 19, 2007 at 03:42:26 PM EST
    When you can quit talking about consensus and get rid of the qualifiers, let me know.
    At that point you will have facts.

    Now you have faith that sun wiill be eaten by the Moon God and you will live in darkness forever unless a virgin is sacrificed.

    Not even remotely connected to the thread and nothing but a personal attack.

    Will Jeralyn's rules never be applied to ppj?

    BTD, WTF is going on here?

    Parent

    Sailor (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 19, 2007 at 11:10:35 PM EST
    Please try to follow. You should start from here.

    Global Warming BS? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri May 18, 2007 at 06:30:12 PM EST

    And talking about the claims of Algore with GW is like talking about Babe Ruth and not mentioning baseball.

    Parent

    The sky is falling (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Sat May 19, 2007 at 12:14:48 PM EST
    from Mister The Terrorists Are Coming, The Terrorists Are Coming!

    I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

    What bogus "proof" (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Sat May 19, 2007 at 12:35:14 PM EST
    (of a negative) is really required here? That Gore dosnt use hyperbole the way every politician since the beginning of time does? That when ideas are already "in the air" that what their more prominent supporters do matters not one iota?

    SITE VIOLATER (none / 0) (#66)
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    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 11, 2022 at 08:48:17 AM EST


    the so-referred to as teal independents, the unbia (none / 0) (#69)
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    are outspending the Coalition in all except Treasu (none / 0) (#70)
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    Frydenberg's seat of Kooyong (none / 0) (#71)
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