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Wednesday Open Thread

The day job beckons and it's time for an open thread. What's going on in your world today and which items in the news and on the blogs have caught your attention?

Are any of you buying Apple's hyped i-Phone which hits the stores Friday? If so, why? What makes it so special?

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    I would just like to say (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Al on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:48:00 AM EST
    GOOD RIDDANCE TONY!

    I only wish you had your just desserts instead of the cushy life on the lecture circuit and lobbying for the Nobel peace prize that awaits you. But at least you won't be enabling "deciders" like George Bush any more, you servile creep.

    I think (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by HK on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 12:52:31 PM EST
    I speak for many Labour voters when I say that what Tony Blair represents most to me is disappointment.  His government was full of promise when he took power in 1997 and the country was well and truly ready for a change after 18 years of Conservative mis-rule which left our health and education services in a pitiful state and pandered to the rich.  Sadly, Tony did not bring us what we expected (although I'll be the first to admit that we expected a lot).  But I do believe that in some ways life in Britain has been improved by Blair's government and I hope that Brown can build on those successes, admit the failures and put the Great back into Britain.  We should no longer get our greatness from conquering other nations, but should rather be looking to leading the way in humanitarianism, innovation and self-improvement.

    Iraq will almost certainly be the deciding factor in whether Gordon Brown can get the support he needs to win an election since so much resentment exists around what happened and continues to happen there, so he needs to deal with that situation swiftly and appropriately and move on to issues at home if he is swing the voters back to Labour again.  Right now, the opinion polls are not good but very retrievable.  

    Parent

    HK - Delusions of grandeur?? (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 01:20:29 PM EST
    Uh, you haven't been conquering other nations for about a hundred years... In fact, you've been giving back for about 60 years...

    Parent
    hhahahahaha (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 01:48:36 PM EST
    ....giving back.....
    rhymes with Iraq.

    You think that they would have learned by now and not been duped by our CHimperor.

    Parent

    ....giving back..... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:51:08 PM EST
    rhymes with Iraq.

    Ha ha.  That made me smile. Tough to do these days.

    Thanks squeaky.

    Parent

    Um, Jim (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by HK on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:01:10 PM EST
    I was clarifying that by saying we should make Britain great again, I did not mean that we should return to our old conquering ways but that greatness should mean something different now than it used to and that new greatness is what we as a nation should aspire to.  I think everybody else understood.

    Parent
    HK (1.00 / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:58:14 PM EST
    Gosh, and here I thought you would be sending demands to Washington.....

    ;-)

    How's the garden?

    BTW - I did too. ;-) ;-)

    The devil made me do it.

    Parent

    And DA's is (1.00 / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:06:55 AM EST
    Link

    Now aren't we just oh so clever????

    Gosh. I bet these comments will the envy of the whole seventh grade class.

    Parent

    DA (1.00 / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 07:53:24 PM EST
    So now you you have your jockeys in  a wad because you got paid back in the same currency you spent??

    Good grief. Grow up.

    Parent

    DA (1.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 09:04:54 PM EST
    Let me see.... You claim I am a fan of Khan and I fire back that you favor Mao....

    I also note that such acts are totally stupid and worthy only, if even then, someone in the seventh grade....

    And you are "insulted?"

    What a joke you are.

    ta ta

    Parent

    :0) (none / 0) (#31)
    by HK on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:43:13 PM EST
    The garden is doing great.

    Ironically, I think that's what Eve said right before she said something along these lines:

    The devil made me do it.

    ;0)

    Parent

    a good'un!! (1.00 / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 09:44:42 AM EST
    LOL

    Parent
    Aternate translation: (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:48:36 PM EST
    The patriarchy made me do it.

    Parent
    Jondee you have (1.00 / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:03:03 AM EST
    Absolutely, postively no sense of humor, or the ability to be anything but be nasty.

    Parent
    PPJ's Crowd on the Hate Boat (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 05:17:38 PM EST
    Digby comments on an article by Johann Hari about his trip on National Review cruise.
    This is the Muslims Are Coming cruise. Everyone thinks it. Everyone knows it. And the man most responsible for this insight is sitting only a few tables down: Mark Steyn. He is wearing sunglasses on top of his head and a bright shirt. Steyn's thesis in his new book, America Alone, is simple: The "European races"--i.e., white people--"are too self-absorbed to breed," but the Muslims are multiplying quickly. The inevitable result will be "large-scale evacuation operations circa 2015" as Europe is ceded to Al Qaeda and "Greater France remorselessly evolve[s] into Greater Bosnia." He offers a light smearing of dubious demographic figures--he needs to turn 20 million European Muslims into more than 150 million in nine years, which is a lot of humping--to "prove" his case.

    But facts, figures, and doubt are not on the itinerary of this cruise. With one or two exceptions, the passengers discuss "the Muslims" as a homogenous, sharia-seeking block--already with near-total control of Europe. Over the week, I am asked nine times--I counted--when I am fleeing Europe's encroaching Muslim population for the safety of the United States.

    digby:

    .....If there is ever any doubt in your mind as to what truly gets these people up in the morning, this lays it to rest. They are so afraid of dark people they must have a supply of Depends on hand at all times......

    digby

    PPJ, it sounds like you missed a good one.

    Squeaky (1.00 / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 09:52:13 AM EST
    Sounds like someone should tell digby to quit worryong over man made GW and start paying attention to the radical Moslems.

    The former may happen in 50 years, the latter are here right now.

    Parent

    You mean (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:19:15 AM EST
    the radical extremist christian (sic) wingnuts.

    Upside down, inside out, and backwards. Still?

    Parent

    Keep going edger (1.00 / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 07:55:06 PM EST
    As my many quotes of your comments show, you are your own worst enemy.

    Ta ta

    Parent

    I was just going to post this as well (none / 0) (#36)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 05:53:37 PM EST
    The TNR article:

    I am traveling on a bright-white cruise ship with two restaurants, five bars, and 500 readers of National Review. Here, the Iraq war has been "an amazing success." Global warming is not happening. Europe is becoming a new Caliphate. And I have nowhere to run...

    There is something strange about this discussion, and it takes me a few moments to realize exactly what it is. All the tropes conservatives usually deny in public--that Iraq is another Vietnam, that Bush is fighting a class war on behalf of the rich--are embraced on this shining ship in the middle of the ocean.

    I decide to track down Buckley and Podhoretz separately and ask them for interviews... President Bush described today's American conservatives as "Bill's children." I ask him if he feels like a parent whose kids grew up to be serial killers...

    Hilarious and well worth the free sign up if you haven't already.

    Parent

    Icebergs dead ahead. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 06:05:45 PM EST
    Tell ppj: "It's a miracle we're still alive."

    Parent
    No... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Strick on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 09:51:48 AM EST
    My phone is provided by my employer so I can get email, etc. for business.  AT&T's contract with Apple prevents it from offering the iPhone to corporate accounts and the iPhone isn't supported by our email service provider.

    Won't address either issue anytime soon from what I understand.

    An i-phone? (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 09:59:19 AM EST
    Nah...Gadgets don't do it for me, I only got my first cellphone about a year ago...and only because its hard to find a payphone these days.  

    I made a better investment this week...tickets to see Levon Helm in Central Park tommorow night.  Should be a good one.  Hopefully I can escape police-state Manhattan Island with my freedom intact.

    You're one up on me (none / 0) (#3)
    by Peaches on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:14:09 AM EST
    I don't have a cell phone at all, and I've made it a goal to never own one.

    The Luddite in me, I suppose. One day, I'll be divorced of this blasted keyboard as well and these virtual entities I see on the screen in front of me I've come to know as my friends. I'd rather see Levon Helm with you at the park, though, than typing away staving off the slow death from the boredom of the workday in the modern downtown office building doing meaningless tasks that make our world go round.

    Parent

    Second those emotions.... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:49:54 AM EST
    I always said I'd never get a cell-phone...but I broke down and got a pre-paid jammy.  I haven't turned it on in over a month. No ipod, no palm pilot....and shoot me if I'm ever walking around with the Uhura from Star Trek cell phone thingy in my ear.

    I'll let you know how Levon sounds...my friends saw him recently and told me not to miss a chance to see him.  That kind of Americana won't be around forever I'm afraid.

    Parent

    Good to hear Levon (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:55:29 PM EST
    is still kickin' it; I know he had a bout of throat cancer a few years back. Have a good time Kdog.

    Parent
    Lefty Cheney hate due to unreturned booty call (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ellie on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:36:55 AM EST
    Perhaps Jonah Goldberg's most vapid moment ever (in a lifetime of them) comes in his defense of Dick Cheney in this clip at Crooks and Liars:

    approx 04:19 into the above C&L clip

    Tucker Carlson: Why is he so disliked? When you talk to -- when you talk to Liberals or just even garden variety Democrats and Dick Cheney's name comes up you're apt to see hyperventilation. People hate Cheney on this visceral level. What is so hate-able about Dick Cheney?

    Jonah Goldberg (Nat'l Review Online): I have no -- I really, I truly have no idea. I like Dick Cheney, love to have a beer with the guy. I think he is, um, a smart, serious man in American life. Um, I think one of the things that bothers them is that he doesn't care. You know, there's nothing -- the opposite of hate isn't love it's indifference. [laughter]

    Tucker Carlson: [laughter]

    Jonah Goldberg: It drives stalkers and some hardcore lefties crazy! He just doesn't care what they think about them!

    Tucker Carlson: [laughter]

    Yeah, I must be pissed over that whole booty call thing. (::: hurling out my spinal column:::).

    It couldn't possibly be severe, chronic nausea aggravated because Cheney's a domestic despot and an international criminal the ICC should try on multiple counts.

    Or the multiple infractions against this in this teensy document, the VP's sworn oath of office (since 1864):


    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

    According to Jonah Goldberg, wanting a transparent, accountable government is the equivalent of being a stalker.

    Why aee extremists like this given mainstream endorsement?

    Cheney is so lovable (none / 0) (#13)
    by Al on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:41:16 AM EST
    even the got that he shot in the face loves him.

    Parent
    Awhile back (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:56:41 AM EST
    I asked a Clinical Psychologist:
    How does clinical psychology describe people who appear to simply not care in the slightest what people think of them?
    The Doctor answered:    
    • "Stuporous" or "comatose."
    The conversation was about Bush, not about Cheney. But it applies in Cheney's case as well, I think.

    It was also a Sign Of The Times.

    Parent

    I Love Apple (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:45:34 AM EST
    But would never sign a two year contract with ATT. What a horrible company.... a big mistake by Steve Jobs to align with them exclusively.

    Oh,and  I would never get a cell phone anyway. Had one and got disgusted with it.

    I have wi-fi phone and do not need to be in constant touch 24/7 where ever I am. My life is not that complex.

    It's hard to find a company.... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 12:06:10 PM EST
    as hated as AT&T.  I had the misfortune of doing a little telemarketing for them years ago...I can't tell you how many earfuls I got about how AT&T screws their customers.

    Parent
    Agree (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 12:15:34 PM EST
    ATT was the first in line to sell out their customer lists to the gov. They are also the ones providing the NSA the technology to spy on us.

    Verizon comes in by a hair as second worst.

    Vonage seems better and much less expensive.

    Parent

    AT&T (none / 0) (#25)
    by s5 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:33:49 PM EST
    All telcos are evil, which is more the fault of right wing government policy than anything else. There's been massive consolidation and no real consumer protection.

    The reason for Apple's choice of AT&T is technical. There are two groups of standards for cellular technology: CDMA and GSM. GSM is the worldwide standard (think of GSM like the metric system) and CDMA is the goofy America-only system.

    In the US, we have two CDMA providers (Verizon and Sprint) and two GSM providers (AT&T and T-mobile). Following me so far?

    So, Apple will want to sell this phone in as many countries as they can, so they'll want to build one phone that works everywhere. This means GSM. This also means they can only choose between T-mobile and AT&T.

    Now, why AT&T over T-mobile? Well, in the US, there are two frequency bands for cellular: 850MHz and 1900MHz. And 850MHz has better building penetration. Meaning that if you're inside a building and if your phone and the nearest tower can talk over 850MHz, you're going to get a clear signal. With 1900MHz, not so much. If you're inside a large building, it will appear to be a deadzone over 1900MHz. (And this is because of the laws of physics.)

    And it just so happens that AT&T has way more 850MHz towers than T-mobile.

    So really, there's only one choice for Apple: AT&T. Unless the other two providers move over to the global standard, and unless the government allows the public to have access to more frequency bands for data transmission, that's what we're left with.


    Parent

    And to answer the original question (none / 0) (#26)
    by s5 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:38:34 PM EST
    Yes, I'm getting an iPhone, though I'm planning to avoid the mobs and just order mine online. I'm ready to drop my Treo in a blender, and it'll be nice to have a phone that works smoothly with my Mac.

    And while many people have complained about the lack of 3G, this will be just fine for people who live in areas with municipal wifi. We're getting it in San Francisco (eventually) and I'd much rather use publicly owned bandwidth. I'm hoping that wifi will eventually kill the cellular companies: if anyone can set up a wifi node and start handling voice and data, what purpose will the telcos serve?

    Parent

    I don't think (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:27:44 PM EST
    That you can use it roaming in Europe. They are on another frequency.

    Which is another reason the deal seems so bad with ATT.

    Why they couldn't offer it as a stand alone phone where you can choose your service provider beats me.

    Parent

    The iPhone is quadband (none / 0) (#38)
    by s5 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 06:41:48 PM EST
    It supports 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, and 1900MHz, meaning it will roam everywhere in the world.

    Why couldn't Apple offer an unlocked phone? I'm sure they would have loved to (just like every manufacturer would love to do), but it's impossible in the US. There is no manufacturer that has been able to do it, not Nokia, not Sony Ericsson, not Samsung, no one.

    Ideally, we would have a device-independent mobile phone network with multiple providers competing with the best service and pricing, but instead, the people have allowed their government to turn a blind eye to corporations dictating which devices you can and can't use. In other countries, you buy an unlocked phone and drop in your SIM card. Not so in the US.

    It's a shame that people are blaming Apple for this, just because Apple is a brand name they recognize. The reality of the situation is much more complicated, and is 100% the fault of voters allowing the public airwaves to become a commodity for corporate monopolists to exploit.

    So, what seems like an annoying product decision by Apple is actually the end result of decades of right wing economics. It's almost identical to the "net neutrality" debate, and if net neutrality does fail, this is exactly what the future of the internet will look like.

    Parent

    s5 (1.00 / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 09:43:54 AM EST
    Apple is blamed automatically because it was Apple's decision about 25 years ago to sell computers and not software. This severly limited the amount of software available, kept the prices of Apple products higher than DOS and eventually Windows. The market voted with its pocketbook and the rest is history.

    The above isn't right wing politics, just a business decision that almost put Apple out of business.

    BTW - I have used both and liked Apple better, but the price difference, and limited software from Apple converted me over around the time Windows 98 came. I also had some bad experience with their hardware and service, but that's anecdotal.

    Ideally, we would have a device-independent mobile phone network with multiple providers competing with the best service and pricing

    A good thought, but one that ignores the billions of dollars of installed legacy equipment that prevents that from happening.

    The industry tried to work towards seamless interface with the SONET standard for the obvious reasons that they wanted to turn equipment into a comodity and make the manufacturers compete on price and service only. The manufacturers gave great lip service, but, as you can imagine, had no real desire for that happening, although several trials were ran in which different manufactures interfaced lighwave SONET terminals directly. The trials were successful, but the inability of the industry to reach an operations and maintenance standard eventually stopped the attempts.

    In the digital world the US, and most countries that play baseball, have T1 and it is a 24 channels.. Europe has E1 and it is a 30 channel system. That is the base difference in the digital world, and bleeds over into the cellphone world. But there are other reasons also.
    Link

    So it isn't as easy as you think. You are living, and talking, atop a huge pyramid of installed legacy equipment and technology. And what you want could be done just by tearing out all that and starting over.... of course your phone bill would be unaffordable, unless you're rich.

    Parent

    when pricing comparable systems ... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:52:57 AM EST
    ... Apple generally is cheaper and much more stable. Once you spec a PC with more RAM, larger vid card, bigger HD to make it comparable to off the shelf Macs, Mac are generally cheaper. Plus you can dual boot Windows and the hardware is of higher quality and lasts longer.

    Parent
    Sailor (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 10:38:22 AM EST
    You're forgetting one important fact. I call it the ice cream law.

    "The customer doesn't want a Bannana Split...he wants a double dip of vanilla."

    That was meant to educate engineers, product managers and marketing to the fact that people don't buy "features" they buy "benefits."

    If a $600 PC does the job of providing the benefits the customer wants, they are not going to spend $1800 for a bigger whatever.

    Be that a Mac or a PC.

    Write that down and remember an old retired salesman who made a ton of money by listening to the customer tell him what they wanted told you that.

    Parent

    current events (none / 0) (#60)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:55:22 AM EST
    The market voted with its pocketbook and the rest is history.
    Apple is increasing their market share. Plus, most of those stats are based on units sold and people don't have to buy new Macs as often as they have to buy a new PC.

    The Mac is market is stronger than ever.

    Parent

    So?? (1.00 / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 07:51:40 PM EST
    So, what's your point?

    Anyone with any actual experience in the industry knows that Apple made a bad decision 20 years ago and almost went under... It appears that want to repeat it.

    No problem to me. I've decided to do Windows/Vista as the lessor of two evils.

    As for the Iwhatever, who needs it?

    If you want it, buy it. But it doesn't advance either technology or features one inch.

    Parent

    retired salesmen ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 10:35:28 PM EST
    ... don't have a clue.
    Anyone with any actual experience in the industry knows that Apple made a bad decision 20 years ago
    You don't have any actual experience in the industry. 20 years ago is so last millenium.

    I notice that all you could do, as usual, is make a personal attack instead of refuting any points of fact with, you know, actual facts.

    And good luck with vista, I hope you have a grand child that can fix the bugs. Dognose microsoft can't.

    Parent

    And sailors who have never been in the (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 10:19:20 AM EST
    telecommunications field are generally suspect when it comes to knowing what they are talking about.

    I repeat. Apple decided to sell hardware with its own software. It was almost impossible for outside vendors to write programs that would function with Apple... When it came time to introduce a new product, the Mac, it was introduced early, problems with introduction happened and no one wanted an Apple because they had no idea if it would be supported, would new programs be available, etc...Apple almost had to shut the doors.

    That decision was one of the worst business decisions in the 20th century..

    Why that statement is challenged by you is not known by me. It is well known to be true by anyone who has been in the communications field.

    As for "help." I don't worry. For better or worse the dominance of Microsoft has assured that there are a zillion technicians available.

    Parent

    Gee, I guess that would explain ... (none / 0) (#71)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 12:12:54 PM EST
    ... why folks are sleeping on sidewalks around the block to be among the first to get an iPhone.

    Apple decided to sell hardware with its own software. It was almost impossible for outside vendors to write programs that would function with Apple
    That's one of the sillier statements you have made here. Apple made it easy for developers to cross platforms. Apple made the correct decision to tie its OS to its hardware, that's why Macs are more user friendly, less likely to be infected and last longer.

    You do have a minor point, the board screwed up by hiring ex-ceos of pepsi and other losers as ceo, as soon as Jobs came back, jobs came back.

    p.s. You can get a Mac for $600 that does as much as any stock windoze machine ever made. But since you only know about marketing and not technology I'm not surprised you don't know that.

    As for "help." I don't worry. For better or worse the dominance of Microsoft has assured that there are a zillion technicians available.
    Riiiiight. A zillion people who make their living because the operating system and user interface are so buggy you have to have help. And good luck with 30 cent/hour folks in India who provide MS with 'customer support.'

    p.s. 'Sailor' is a handle and an advocation, not a limitation of my skills. My last peer reviewed paper concerned foveal bi-refringence identification thru Mueller matrix compensation for corneal polarization characteristics.

    Parent

    Sailor (1.00 / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 02:44:00 PM EST
    Sorry.

    I didn't understand that you are a legend in your own mind.

    Parent

    still nothing but personal insults (none / 0) (#81)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 04:32:10 PM EST
    You will never understand is science. I work there, you just get your life extended by it.

    Sometimes I hate my job;-)

    Parent

    sailor (1.00 / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 06:22:07 PM EST
    Oh, I understand science. The pity is that someone who claims to have the mental toughness and intelluctal vigor to "work in science" doesn't know when the bureaucrats are pulling his string...

    BTW - How do you "work in science?"

    When I worked in engineering I designed circuits and systems...

    When I worked in sales, I sold....

    Parent

    sailor (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 01:36:20 PM EST
    Why you pick fights is a disorder you can fix on your on, but telling us that Apple's decision to tie its OS to its hardware was a good business decision is just flat wrong. It doggone near killed the company....

    Now, go spread your BS to people who don't know better.

    As for the phone, please note that I said I didn't care and didn't need one. My point remains that it appears to be a nifty applications job with some adriot packaging that will appeal to the "He who dies with the most toys" crowd and others who just like the apps.

    Squaring the circle it aint.

    Parent

    Good Thing (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 01:50:42 PM EST
    You did not buy their stock, you would have been:

    A. Poor

    B. Rich

    Hint: It is not the first answer.

    Parent

    Yes, but (none / 0) (#74)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 02:40:07 PM EST
    he was too smart to buy their stock. :-/

    Parent
    edger (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 02:52:27 PM EST
    BTW - What's the status of Lepoard???

    Parent
    squeaky (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 02:41:13 PM EST
    How do you know I am not rich?

    After all I live in a palatial retirement compound..

    Parent

    Shuffle board at 2:30, (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 02:51:42 PM EST
    gin rummy at 4:00.

    Parent
    ignorant retired salesmen ... (none / 0) (#80)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 04:28:12 PM EST
    ... don't have a clue about what is happening in this millenium
    Now, go spread your BS to people who don't know better.
    If you're referring to politics in America, that would be 73% of Americans who disagree with you.

    If you are referring to Apple's share of the consumer market, look at Zune v. iPod, look at ??? v. iTunes. (over a billion iTunes customers.)

    And then look at MS market share v. Apple market share. Who is climbing who is falling?

    What countries have declared MS Vista illegal? What US states have gone with Apple's OS v. what states have dumped the MS OS?

    p.s. I didn't pick a fight, I just reported facts.

    p.p.s. Only trolls try to make the argument personal because they can't refute facts.

    Parent

    sailor (1.00 / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 06:49:08 PM EST
    What you ignored was my comment that I didn't care one way or the other.. you just charged in as if I was attacking Apple...

    That's fine with me. I love it when people puff themselves up and spew a lot of BS. And I love the smell of nonsense in the morning...

    Apple has about 7% of the computer market. Where else can they go but up???

    And who cares what states has done what to who when and why we don't know...

    People buy benefits. When Apple provides benefits at the same level at a cheaper price they may sell more computers....

    Apple has decided to go the utensil route. Sounds good to me, I just don't care. If I find I need a Iwhatever phone, I'll buy it.

    If I decide I need an Apple computer, I'll buy it.

    And I love it when you keep pretending you know my political positions. You actually don't have a clue.

    Parent

    Disappointment (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 09:35:05 PM EST
    no manufacturer that has been able to do it, not Nokia, not Sony Ericsson, not Samsung, no one.

    The odds of Apple defying that rule seem exponentially better than the competitors.

    It is a pity that they didn't go for it.  Even as a mobile phone hater I would have bought one, if just for the wi-fi part.

    Parent

    OK but (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 09:39:31 PM EST
    That means that despite the phone's high price, users won't be able to roam with it into Europe, where operators use different frequencies.

    PC Advisor

    Are they wrong?


    Parent

    Squeaky (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:10:12 PM EST
    look at the masthead i.e. "PC Advisor"

    And yes, they are wrong.

    Apple pretty much had to pick a partner to break into the cell phone/blackberry market. Without that clout or an incredible investment in infrastructure it wouldn't have been possible.

    But just like any new computer, wait 6 months or a year and the price will be half and the bugs will be worked out.

    p.s. I won't be getting one ... but then I don't have or want a cell phone. I do have Macs at hoem and at work and I do have an iPod.

    p.p.s. The same folks also said the iPod was doomed.

    Parent

    Makes Sense (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:18:19 PM EST
    Thanks Sailor

    Parent
    Yep, they're wrong (none / 0) (#47)
    by s5 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 03:31:52 AM EST
    Here are the official specs:

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

    GSM
    * Quad-band (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)

    900 and 1800MHz = Europe

    Parent

    frankly (none / 0) (#6)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:46:38 AM EST
    mr. cheney has never impressed me with his intellectual heft. being machiavellian and a great intellect aren't mutually inclusive by definition.

    please, someone send me to one intelligent, analytical piece by mr. cheney.

    iphone? (none / 0) (#7)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:47:45 AM EST
    Not likely. I just got my first cellphone yesterday at my wife's insistence.

    So far, no one has called me.

    Another one bites the dust.....n/t (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:51:29 AM EST
    I know... (none / 0) (#12)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:12:19 AM EST
    it's just another link in the chain.

    Parent
    iPhone (none / 0) (#10)
    by JHFarr on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:07:53 AM EST
    Jeralyn, go visit MacSurfer.com and scan all the iPhone articles. That'll tell you what's so special.

    The main thing is, it makes everything you want to do, telecommunication-wise, so EASY. I frankly don't see why anyone in your position would hesitate for even a second.

    Maybe when the price drops $400 or so (none / 0) (#11)
    by roy on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:11:46 AM EST
    There's a video explaining how to use the iPhone here.  It looks pretty nice.  If you're a gadget person, you'd like the iPhone.  If not, well, you're not in the target market.  But $650 is obscene.  I could fly home and spend a weekend eating my parents cooking and spoiling my nieces for that, twice.

    My old cell phone cost me $20 and lasted five years just fine.  It might have been fun to upgrade to a whiz-bang model, but it had a couple cool features: it let people call me, and it let me call people.  

    iPhone (none / 0) (#17)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 12:13:33 PM EST
    I want one but they are not practical yet. I am quite happy w/ my Sprint Treo for now. I suspect in  a few years they'll be everywhere and the competition will have responded also. For now - ATT - no, no high speed, high cost, high service cost, not enough info.
    Plus I'm one year into a 2 yr contract and so need to wait a year to make any decision.......

    Wrong Image (none / 0) (#19)
    by JHFarr on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 12:22:45 PM EST
    BTW, I don't know where you got that photo, but it's not like the shots at Apple.com. I think you have an early mockup from a rumor site.

    looks exactly (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 06:58:16 PM EST
    like the one on the right to me.  Can't remember where I grabbed it from though.

    Parent
    who needs an IPhone (none / 0) (#21)
    by scribe on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    when there's news like this out there:  The Indonesian VP says it's probably ok to keep cooking with cannabis, but not to smoke it.
    Wish Schapelle Corby had gotten that word.

    Wow. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:55:22 PM EST
    At $5.50 / Kg it might be an idea to start a "food seasonings' import/wholesale/distribution business.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Heck of a Job (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 09:58:33 PM EST
    Bush less trusted than Putin by U.S. allies.

    think progress

    et al (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 09:46:56 AM EST
    Before you get two excited, remeber that these were the same countries that cheered when Chamberlain believed Hitler...

    Parent
    grrrrr I can't type or read (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:09:27 AM EST
    TOO

    Parent
    Too lame. (none / 0) (#79)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 03:13:59 PM EST
    But not the same people. Speaking of Nazi Germany, as I recall your favorite Pinhead-in-Chiefs family did quite alright investing in the Reich (an investment in the future?), those New England bluebloods never did take too kindly to competition from the more semitic faction..

    Or, is the table captain the only one allowed to evoke events, when it serves his purposes, that occurred 60 years ago?

    Parent

    I'll get a cellphone when (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ben Masel on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 10:06:19 PM EST
    they're not used to track my whereabouts. Suspect i'll be waiting a long time.

    I love Apple products, (none / 0) (#45)
    by fafnir on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 11:18:19 PM EST
    and the iPhone is insanely lust worthy.

    However, I don't use or need a cell phone.

    I would buy Apple's a next generation iPod in a heart-beat if it included the other cool Mac stuff that's in the iPhone.

    The Medicare Privatization Scam (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 08:51:27 PM EST
    Trudy Lieberman
    The Nation: June 27, 2007 (July 16, 2007 issue)
    In the next few weeks Congress will decide whether to cut $54 billion in overpayments to Medicare insurers, igniting a battle that may well determine whether the program survives. On one side are Medicare supporters, who want it to continue as a successful social insurance program. On the other is the insurance industry, which is spending millions and lobbying hard to put Medicare on a fast track to privatization, a goal long sought by fiscal conservatives and their allies in right-wing think tanks.