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Rough Days Ahead for Scooter Libby

I have an op-ed in the Washington Examiner today on Scooter Libby's sentence and his chances for an appeal bond.

For another first-hand account of the sentencing hearing, check out Scott Shrake at Huffington Post.

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    Nice editorial, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:03:26 AM EST
    I liked your conclusion: Tell the truth or zip it. Lying is not a viable option.

    Thanks, Edger (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:06:24 AM EST
    much appreciated!  

    Parent
    Welcome. (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:23:03 AM EST
    Sorry I gave away the ending - I couldn't resist - it was too good!

    Parent
    In most any other context (none / 0) (#3)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:18:39 AM EST
     he would have taken the 5th. I'm sure his private lawyers advised him regarding the benefits of doing that. Here though the political consequences of taking the 5th were deemed to outweigh the legal peril.

      The paradox is that if everyone had just come clean up front it is extremely unlikely anyone would have beeen prosecuted for violating IIPA. Even if we assume Plame was "covert" within the statute the evidence would seem very weak with regard to proving the heightened specific intent required under that statute and Fitzgerald likely would have indicted no one and at most authored a critical investigative report highlighting the reckless conduct. (as he is far more restrained than some of his predecessors he might not even done that)

      I think more than anything it is the political consequences which they wanted to avoid. In the end, they get that to greater degree than if they had been honest  and a conviction for Libby.

     

    Heh. (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:25:30 AM EST
    political consequences which they wanted to avoid. In the end, they get that to greater degree than if they had been honest

    You're kidding.

    Parent

    He must be kidding (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:10:40 PM EST
    Not that IIPA would have of stuck, as that has never actually led to any convictions ever. But if everyone just told the truth there would have been a major conspiracy charge going high up maybe even up to the King himself.

    Too bad they did  not have Decon to advise them.

    Parent

    They did. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:13:30 PM EST
    But his name was Libby.

    Parent
    I have to admire (none / 0) (#8)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:14:47 PM EST
     the tenaciousness of Edger and Squeaky. They counter everything I write with unwavering persistence of pit bulls. Now, if only they had significantly greater intellects than a pit bull....

    Thanks, Decon. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Gabriel Malor on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:17:50 PM EST
    I appreciate your work in this thread. I learned a lot.

    Parent
    Well, hmm. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Gabriel Malor on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:18:20 PM EST
    Okay, so not this thread. But the other Libby thread where you explained forever.

    Parent
    You were kidding, were you not? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:20:40 PM EST
    You don't really believe they've avoided political consequences by having Libby lie under oath?

    Parent
    READ, then babble (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:39:42 PM EST
     how much more clearly could I have said that they not only did not avoid the political consequnces but actually made them worse? My point was THEY [incorrectly] calculated that they could reduce the political consequnces by covering, and that not only failed but also got Libby convicted. Thus, it would have been better not to have engaged in the cover-up.

      if you were not so irrationally fixated on arguing with me you would not incessantly reveal yourself to be do dim.

     

    Parent

    I read quite clearly, decon. (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:47:29 PM EST
    Your words (above):
    I'm sure his private lawyers advised him regarding the benefits of doing that. Here though the political consequences of taking the 5th were deemed to outweigh the legal peril.
    ...
    I think more than anything it is the political consequences which they wanted to avoid. In the end, they get that to greater degree than if they had been honest  and a conviction for Libby.
    AGAIN -You don't really believe they've avoided political consequences by having Libby lie under oath?

    Try not to have a stroke this time around.

    Parent

    I'll give you partial credit (none / 0) (#15)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:00:45 PM EST
    for finding the correct passage. But, then i flunk you for being totally incapable of comprehending it.

    I think more than anything it is the political consequences which they wanted to avoid. In the end, they get that to greater degree than if they had been honest  and a conviction for Libby.

      I don't know what your problem is but you are one annoying SOB.

       

    Parent

    I'm interested in what kind of reasoning you (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:18:46 PM EST
    employ to get to they avoided political consequences to greater degree than if they had been honest.

    It appears to me that the reverse is the case, and that they are suffering enormous political consquences - much greater than they would have had he taken the fifth- as a direct result of having him lie.

    It also appears to me, because of that, that had they followed your kind of advice (which they appear to have done) they would be suffering exactly the continuing drop in public confidence that they are now.

    I'll ignore your continuing insults, on the chance that you are having a bad day.

    Parent

    this is unbelievable even from you! (none / 0) (#20)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:40:29 PM EST
     i didn't say they avoided the political consequences.

    I DID NOT SAY THEY AVOIDED THE CONSEQUENCES!
    I said exactly the opposite happened-- the consequences became worse because of the cover-up. I've now repeated this about 5 times and you are still incapable ogf getting it and you wonder why I get frustrated!

     

    Parent

    Well... hmmm. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 05:38:08 PM EST
    If that is what you meant - that they did not avoid political consequences, but in fact exacerbated them by having Libby lie - then we agree.

    I admit though to still being unable to get that meaning out of your original comment, though I've reread it quite a few times, but I'll take your word that that was your meaning.

    I don't think anyone could think they did avoid consequences, which was why I asked my question.

    Parent

    Please lose the insults (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:57:56 PM EST
    to other commenters or your comments will be deleted.

    Parent
    I am going to object to that threat (1.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:05:22 PM EST
     A handful of posters follow me around writing garbage in response to me almost constantly. They interject snide, belligerent and nonsensical comments incessantly when I am responding to other people. You never seem to have a problem with that but when I respond, admittedly with a degree of frustration and sometimes anger, you threaten ME with censorship. It's your site and you don't have to be even-handed but your choosing sides is a bit much.

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:13:23 PM EST
    Your ego driven blindspot is the problem. Certainly you are often wrong and when challenged always resort to insults or tantrums.

    If everyone would have fessed up as you suggested this would be on the table:

    § 371. Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
    If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
    If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor.


    Parent
    First, (none / 0) (#21)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:47:24 PM EST
      A criminal conspiracy requires proof of an agreement to commit an illegal act to or a lawful act in an unlawful manner.

      It's not illegal to discredit an opponent even in  a nasty fashion. The alleged offense is not playing dirty but rather disclosing a covert agent. If they had done everything else other than that there would have been no SP investigation.

      Second, from a legal standpoint if there was a conspiracy to commit an illegal act, how on Earth are they better off now with regard to possible prosecution for that than if they had simply all kept quiet and not had Libby lie?

    Parent

    It looks to me like Squeaky meant that (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 05:57:08 PM EST
    if Libby had told the truth about what went on - not that if Libby had taken the fifth and him and everyone else had clammed up - then we'd be seeing either a single or a conspiracy prosecution. IOW Squeaky as far as I can see was saying their consequences would have been worse, not better.

    Parent
    Thanks, that was great, Jeralyn (none / 0) (#19)
    by Johnbo on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:32:46 PM EST
    Question for you legal eagles and news junkies:  Does anyone know how Armitage got the information RE: Plame's CIA work?  It was a "state department memo" according to Newsweek, but where did the information ORIGINATE?  I thought that I read that it came from the White House originally but can't find that information now.  I also remember reading that Armitage was a "back channel" to the White House necessary because of the tenuous relationship between Colon Powell and the Bush inner circle.  That would make it easy for him to be in the loop as the White House (read VP Cheney) started their campaign to discredit Wilson.  I also thought that I read Cheney was the first to get classified information about Plame's status.  Anyone want to help with this?  It's important because the fact that Armitage was the source for Woodward and that Fitzgerald knew this early on has been one of the main talking points used by the right to discredit the conviction of Libby.  It would help if we could point to the proof that this originated with Cheney.

    Here's my letter about Libby printed today in the NY Times (WoHoo, the Grand Prize for cronic, crank letter writers):

    New York Times

    To the Editor:

    One of the most absurd talking points that has emerged from the spin machine in the wake of I. Lewis Libby Jr.'s sentencing for perjury and obstruction of justice is that Mr. Libby's conviction and sentence are a travesty because no underlying crime was committed.

    Since the special prosecutor, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, didn't charge anyone with the leak of Valerie Wilson's classified status -- the event that triggered the investigation -- then why should Mr. Libby be punished when no one else was?

    This ignores that the threshold for conviction required proof that the leaker knowingly intended to reveal an agent's status -- a difficult requirement -- and further ignores that Mr. Fitzgerald wasn't able to fully investigate this case because of Mr. Libby's interference.

    The point many are now making, including most of the Republican candidates running for president, is that lying repeatedly to a federal grand jury is allowed if it ultimately turns out that the crime being investigated didn't reach the threshold for indictment.

    Nice Letter! (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:48:15 PM EST
    Congrats in getting it published.

    Here is a good source for setting the record straight on the Libby conviction: Media Matters
    The official story:
    Armitage apparently mentioned Ms. Wilson's CIA role to Novak in a July 8, 2003 interview after learning about her status from a State Department memo which made no reference to her undercover status.

    Wikipedia

    Also Fitzgerald knew this three months before he started his investigation.

    Parent

    Thanks, Squeaky (none / 0) (#23)
    by Johnbo on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:23:12 PM EST
    that helped but still didn't answer the question.  I should have thought of Media Matters.  They are a great source.  

    I think I'll email David Corn.  He seems to be one of the experts.

    Parent

    I Think (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:34:29 PM EST
    Sorry, I didn't read your question carefully enough. It was the memo that Grossman provided for Libby.

    Parent
    Thanks, Squeaky. BINGO!! (none / 0) (#27)
    by Johnbo on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 08:28:26 PM EST
    Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.  I also got great info from Media Matters and Robert Parry at Consortiumnews.com.  

    As I suspected, the link is unambiguous between Libby and Armitage through Marc Grossman, a neo-con ally of Libby's in the State Department who Libby asked to prepare a memo on Wilson.  Armitage got his information that he passed on to Woodward and Novak from Grossman's June 10, 2003 memo.

    So, all the spin about Armitage having no agenda because he was considered a "moderate" or wasn't connected to the operation run from Cheney's office and thus not part of a campaign to discredit Wilson, is pure crap.  Ditto Armitage's own story about "just happening to mention" Plame's status it at the end of a conversation with Novak.

    Soon after Grossman had prepared a memo for Libby with information that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and was involved in arranging for Wilson to go to Niger, reporter Bob Woodward interviews Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage for a book. Armitage tells Woodward in a taped interview that Wilson's wife works for the CIA.    

    Around  June 23, conservative columnist Robert Novak received a surprise call from Armitage's office offering an interview.  In a  Sept. 14, 2006 column, Novak said:  "During his quarter of a century in Washington, I had had no contact with Armitage before our fateful interview.  I tried to see him in the first 2 ½ years of the Bush administration, but he rebuffed me - summarily and with disdain, I thought.  Then, without explanation, in June 2003, Armitage's office said the deputy secretary would see me."
    Novak later recalled that Armitage divulged Plame's identity toward the end of an hour-long interview.  Armitage "told me unequivocally that Mrs. Wilson worked in the CIA's Counter-proliferation Division and that she had suggested her husband's mission," Novak wrote, adding that Armitage seemed to want the information published.  Armitage "noted that the story of Mrs. Wilson's role fit the style of the old Evans-Novak column - implying to me that it [the column] continued reporting Washington inside information."   Novak says he confirmed Plame's status the next day by White House political adviser Karl Rove.

    And the game was on - with Armitage not only in the loop but appearing to lead the charge


    Perfect Fall Guy (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:02:09 PM EST
    The story goes that Cheney heard that Wilson claimed the order came from Cheney's office to get information about the Niger claim.  Grossman, who was filling in, had to get this memo out from the SSCI. Roberts was involved.

    In the memo it mentions that Valerie Plame was an agent and sent Wilson to Niger.

    Armtage did not know that she was covert, mentions it to Novak and he is off the hook because under the IIPA the leaker has to know that the agent was covert otherwise it doesn't count.

    Perfect little scheme. Bush/Cheney leaks through a memo, which was reprepared for the africa trip.  Someone (Armitage) sees the Plame reference and repeats information that he "thought" was public, or at least not secret.

    No one to blame, that is uless you want to impeach.....

    but alas not enough votes..... hahahhaaha

    Parent