Kristol Slams Yearly Kos and Markos

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 01:29:54 PM EST
Tags: Yearly Kos (all tags)

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Via Think Progress, which has the video and transcript, the Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol said on Fox News Sunday this morning:

“Every Democratic presidential nominee is going to the DailyKos convention,” said Kristol. “That’s the left-wing blogger who was not respectable three or four years ago. The Howard Dean kind of sponsor. Now the whole party is going to pay court to him and to left wing blogs.”

First, the convention is put on by Yearly Kos, an organization separate from the Daily Kos blog and separate from Markos.

More importantly, Markos is and always has been respectable. I'll repeat what I wrote a few years ago:

Markos is a friend of our's. We've spent hours with him - and his wife. He even designed TalkLeft for us, gratis. We've watched him grow from trying to get a few hundred hits a day to getting a thousand hits by noon (another landmark) to where he is now: the largest and most widely read liberal political blogger in the blogosphere.

He's earned every visitor to Daily Kos with his hard work, intelligence and uncanny grasp of all things related to politics and the internet. He grew up in war-torn El Salvador and served as an enlisted U.S. soldier in Gulf War I. He has a law degree. He is an incredibly talented pianist. He and his wife just had this beautiful baby. He's our friend.

Respectable means "worthy of respect or esteem." I think it's Kristol who is lacking in this department, not Markos.

Most of the Democratic presidential candidates and as well as many top Congressional leaders are attending Yearly Kos and participating in forums where they will answer questions from the attendees, 1,500 people from all walks of life concerned about the state of our nation.

More..

Among them:

Presidential Leadership Forum:

Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. John Edwards, Sen. Barack Obama, Gov. Bill Richardson, and Sen. Christopher Dodd.

Ask the Leaders Forum:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, U.S. Rep. Rahm Emanuel, and Sen. Charles E. “Chuck” Schumer.

The Presidential Leadership Forum has an advisory board that will select the questions to be put to the candidates from thousands submitted by bloggers and others. The Advisory Board members are:

Advisory Board members are: Sen. Gary Hart; Vice President Walter Mondale; Sen. George McGovern; strategist Donna Brazile; John Aravosis, AmericaBlog; Eric Davis, Democracy for Illinois; Adam Green, MoveOn.org; Taylor Marsh, TaylorMarsh.com; Ari Melber, The Nation; James Rucker, ColorofChange.org; Andrea Batista Schlesinger, Drum Major Institute; and Christy Hardin Smith, Firedoglake.com.

It's pretty hard to get more respectable than that, Mr. Kristol.

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Kristol Slams Yearly Kos and Markos | 35 comments (35 topical)

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In a decent world, it would be Kristol that would (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by jerry on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 02:41:45 PM EST

not be respectable, not after saying, "There's been a certain amount of pop sociology in America ... that the Shia can't get along with the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq just want to establish some kind of Islamic fundamentalist regime. There's almost no evidence of that at all. Iraq's always been very secular."

But this is his game, to protect himself and his buddies and to disparage Kos, DailyKos, and YearKos and make Kos, et. al., seem disrespectful in the common wisdom.

What he wants is for reporters to constantly discuss Kos, et. al., in derogatory terms (see Marc Ambinder this week for details) and make it difficult for Kos et. al. to obtain sponsors, clients, attendees, etc. and to make difficult for politicians to be seen attending Kos.

I will say, that with the name *Kos, that while YK is different from DK is different from Markos Moulitsas, it is somewhat reasonable for joe average public to fail to distinguish that.

I think part of the cure is the Al Franken suggestion which is to always use the above quote whenever discussing Bill Kristol and beating his employers and sponsors and program moderators with that quote.

Steve Benen talks about this (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by jerry on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 02:44:39 PM EST

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015677.php

But ends with just a "please." I think this has to go beyond "please." The other part of the solution is to put pressure on any politician that would distance himself from Kos.

As Hillary did last week when O'Reilly attacked Kos, they need to come out and actively support Kos and actively support all Democrats and Americans.

This is awesome. (5.00 / 3) (#3)
by manys on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 03:08:27 PM EST

First O'Reilly and now Kristol. There's an element of power in this country who sincerely does not want Democrats to get organized and actively attempts to interfere in anything they catch wind of. This is a testament to the effect that left blogs are having on the country, and I think at times like this it's the right who is advertising their weakness.

: I think there's an element of power (none / 0) (#32)
by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 08:43:44 AM EST

in this country that claim to serve the people but don't want to hear smack from the people. How dare the PEOPLE intrude upon us.

Like they have room to talk (5.00 / 3) (#6)
by MikeDitto on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 03:33:51 PM EST

The Republican Presidential candidates (save McCain because he's reviled by the ultra-right) all flocked to CPAC this year to huggle in the aura of the likes of Michelle Malkin, and Ann Coulter for the purpose of currying favor among the throngs of frothy-mouthed College Republicans who stage "marriage" ceremonies with goldfish and affirmative action bake sales.

Gimme a break.

Sour Grapes from LW (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by Repack Rider on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:41:57 PM EST

In far-left terms, Markos has always been completely respectable.

What's not to like about a kid who grew up in a war-torn country, immigrated to the United States, joined the Army, went to Kosovo, returned and got a law degree, and started the most popular and influential political website...wait for it...IN THE WORLD?

Just for comparison, what kind of traffic do you get?

Jealous much?

: I deleted Lone Wacko's comment (5.00 / 2) (#20)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:52:46 PM EST

because it linked not to something Markos wrote but to something someone wrote about him that I deemed potentially libelous.
Disagreement is fine on TalkLeft but name-calling, personal attacks and false or potentially libelous representations are not.

Remember "Screw Them" ? (1.00 / 2) (#5)
by jarober on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 03:26:17 PM EST

I see TL would prefer to forget the "Screw them" comment about the three men incinerated on a bridge in Iraq a few years ago. Whatever else Markos is, he's a despicable human being for even having those thoughts.

When he decides to actually own up to them and apologize (instead of the desperate whitewashing he actually engaged in), let me know. Until then, anyone who hangs with him is tarnishing their own reputation.

And don't bother heading off on a "what about Coulter" soliloquy. One, it's not related, and two, I agree that she's despicable.

And yet (5.00 / 2) (#7)
by baba durag on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 03:42:30 PM EST

I feel he's right about mercenaries.

He let his passions carry him away on that one, granted.

But I'm no fan of Blackwater. Nor it's lesser manifestations.


screw you, jarober (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by space on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 05:19:51 PM EST

It is a person with little confidence in his own arguments who resorts to twisting the words of others.

It was obvious at the time and it is obvious now that Markos was objecting to the treatment of the deaths of highly-paid, unaccountable mercenaries as being MORE IMPORTANT than the deaths of uniformed American troops -- includng those who died on the same day and were quickly forgotten by the media. He also knew that those serving for love of country, rather than love of money, would have to clean up the mess created in Fallujah by Blackwater.

As has become obvious since Markos' initial post was made, the phrase "screw em" was a poor choice of words which did not properly convey the sentiment he intended. But it takes a special kind of scumbag to fail to admit the obvious. But you seem to fit the bill.


Obvious? (1.00 / 2) (#24)
by jarober on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:05:53 PM EST

Obvious? That explains why Markos tried very, very hard to completely bury the post, hmm?

You know, I don't care that Markos was in the military. So was Kerry, and so was Murtha. Kerry lost any respect he deserved with the "Winter Soldier" crap (all discredited), Murtha lost it with the Haditha crap, and Markos lost it with his "screw 'em" comments.

When he gets around to actually apologizing, let me know


There was NO POST (5.00 / 3) (#28)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:07:21 PM EST

It was a comment in a 400 comment diary written in the heat of anger that was apologized for.

That the Wingnuts seized upon it, distort it, lie about it, and do not let go of it shows that it means nothing to them in substance except asd a weapon to use against a man who was willing to fight for you.

It is disgusting what Chickenhawks will do.


J.R (none / 0) (#39)
by jondee on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:28:36 PM EST

Winter Soldier was never "discredited" anywhere outside the wingnut paralell universe.

I suggest you refernce Jeralyn's post on 08/06/2006 "Vietnam Atrocites etc". Of course, as always, you'll see it when you believe it.


Squeaky (none / 0) (#43)
by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:05:41 PM EST

Sorry, but it isn't all that cut and dried.

NBC News later reported that VVAW executive and Winter Soldier co-organizer Al Hubbard had lied about being an officer and lied about being stationed in Vietnam during a Meet the Press....
......On September 15, 2004, Pitkin signed a second affidavit stating that he had been instructed by organizers to "publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue"......However, although he introduced himself by saying, "I'll testify about the beating of civilians and enemy personnel, destruction of villages, indiscriminate use of artillery, the general racism and the attitude of the American GI toward the Vietnamese," his actual testimony contained no such statements....

...One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorizes...
To reveal the depth of dishonesty present, Al Hubbard, one of the founders of the VVAW and its Executive Secretary, claimed to be an Air Force pilot, wounded in Viet Nam. In fact, Hubbard was never an officer, never wounded and never in Viet Nam...
But the most damaging finding consisted of the sworn statements of several veterans, corroborated by witnesses, that they had in fact not attended the hearing in Detroit," Lewy wrote, "One of them had never been to Detroit in his life." Fake "witnesses" had appropriated the names of real Vietnam veterans.

There is tons of other info out there if you are interested.


: You know so much about 'Nam (none / 0) (#53)
by jondee on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 03:49:48 PM EST

one would almost swear you didnt have other priorities.
Now you can tell us how My Lai was frat house prank.

ditto for murtha (none / 0) (#46)
by Sailor on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:25:25 PM EST

there were war crimes in haditha, and he wasn't blaming the soldier but the sick regime that sent them therre.


Markos (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by Repack Rider on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 07:33:34 PM EST

...put his boots on the ground in Kosovo, and like many other military veterans, myself included, he has nothing but contempt for mercs who do not observe rules of engagement, who are not subject to a chain of command and who are not accountable to the American people for anything, including murder, that they do.

Active military serve out of patriotism, don't get paid very well, and have no choice about where they serve. Mercs are there for nothing other than the money, they can leave any time they wish to, they make far more money than the military by preying on the misery of others, and they require this despicable money-making opportunity to be protected by the active duty soldiers.

How have they earned Markos' respect? They haven't earned mine either.


: They weren't bound by ROE (none / 0) (#33)
by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 08:49:51 AM EST

or the UCMJ in any sort of responsible fashion in the past in Iraq either, and some of them have done really despicable things. Petraeus has issued some serious threats to them about being under his authority now so he will unleash his wrath of God upon them if they can't follow his orders but they have done serious damage to Iraqis without any sort of oversight.

Guess you missed (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:47:28 PM EST

clicking on the link I provided in the post to my earlier writing on the topic. It's where I took my quote from. Try again.


why did you delete ppj's ... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by Sailor on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:52:05 PM EST

... comment about the blackwater mercenaries being harmless workers?


Because (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:02:27 PM EST

he inaccurately re-stated what Markos said and linked to an outside source as evidence for his point but not to what Markos said initially or how he later clarified it. It was misleading.


Jeralyn - I disagree (none / 0) (#34)
by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:56:12 AM EST

The link was to a respected mainline newspaper, and the quote came from there. I did not include what the article claimed to be the original quote based on a screen shot, but it was available to anyone who used the link so I see nothing misleading.

Markos wrote what he wrote, and later clarified it. His friends believe him, his enemies do not.

My response was more to Space's claim about the status of the dead food delivery contractors than anything else. Space's words:

It was obvious at the time and it is obvious now that Markos was objecting to the treatment of the deaths of highly-paid, unaccountable mercenaries

My comment re dangerous (?) truck drivers was a bit snarky.

I can repost the link, but will not as I am a guest, as we all are. I will note than in four years of commenting that I have had less than a dozen comments deleted. Given that most of my comments are in opposition to the majority, many times in response to heated comments I am proud of my self control.

It is the first time I have disagreed in public with TL regarding content.


denial (none / 0) (#37)
by Sailor on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:30:18 PM EST

you didn't link to a reputable source, you linked to the WSJ opinion journal. Those are opinions, and extreme rightwing ones at that.

It's still hard to believe that you contend those killed weren't highly paid mercenaries.

Whenever there are stories about US soldiers raping or murdering you content that's just a part of war, yet when mercenaries are killed you are all up in arms about it. Hey, that's just a part of war.


: Sailor and opinions (none / 0) (#40)
by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:33:57 PM EST

And opinion journals can't be reputable?? Oh. I understand. Opinions that you disagree with aren't reputable.
Food delilivery works are "mercenaries?"
Mercenary

one that serves merely for wages; especially : a soldier hired into foreign service
Soldier

one engaged in military service and especially in the army b : an enlisted man or woman c : a skilled warrior
I'll tell the pizza delivery guy to start carrying.
If you want to argue that food delivery makes them part of the supply system then I suppose you can argue that they are legitimate military targets.
Having agreed on that I think it is time for you to quit with your complaints about GC violations.
Finally.
I have never said that murder and raping is "just part of war." You know that, so it is not an "opinion."

et al (1.00 / 1) (#9)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 05:14:36 PM EST

Both sides play to their base.

One point that Kristol made that is correct is:

Not a single one (Demo candidate) is going to the Democratic Leadership Council meeting in a couple of weeks. That's the organization that Bill Clinton was head of in the early '90s -- that was supposed to be the new, more moderate Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has gone left and it will hurt them in 2008.

The question is Juan Cole's claim:

What you described as left is now center.

If Cole is correct the Demos will win in a walk. If he is wrong, the Demos will lose.

Kristol's quote is wrong on this (5.00 / 0) (#11)
by baba durag on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 06:10:46 PM EST

The DLC was the new more right wing Democratic Party segment.


And your point is?? (1.00 / 1) (#12)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 07:09:32 PM EST

My quote is accurate.

In past years it would have been possible for the candidates to do what Clinton and Obama are trying to do. This time the power of the Internet will lock everyone into what they have said, and what they have done.

Cole is right. If KOS is the new center, the Demos will win in a walk. If KOS is not, get ready to have 8 years of a Repub Pres and Repub Senate.


: PPJ protests too much (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by Repack Rider on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:30:31 PM EST

This time the power of the Internet will lock everyone into what they have said, and what they have done.
Like that's a BAD thing?
Cole is right. If KOS is the new center, the Demos will win in a walk. If KOS is not, get ready to have 8 years of a Repub Pres and Repub Senate.
Kos was right in 2006, and you and Karl ("THE math") Rove were wrong. DKos is the most vibrant and thoughtful online community I have ever encountered. The desperate, shrill and whining claims that DKos is a loony left-wing site are being made by bitter right-wing online failures and hacks like Kristol and O'Reilly who haven't been right about anything in six years. Anyone who takes these fools seriously has already surrendered all credibility.
With well over 100,000 members (I am #207) there is a wide spectrum of Democratic political thought (it IS an unashamedly Democratic blog), but when you average all those passionate Democrats, the result must define something very close to the center. How ELSE would one define the "center?"
If DKos is defined by who the people are that hate it, it must be pretty good. If Bill Kristol doesn't like you, that is quite a compliment and it means you must be doing something that is not only right, but important for the country.

: My point... (none / 0) (#29)
by baba durag on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:50:45 PM EST

is well expressed by Repack Rider.
But more explicitly, it is that Kristol is wrong. Again.

Uh, (none / 0) (#36)
by jondee on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:15:02 AM EST

I thought the Dems "were taken over by the radical Left" in the sixties, Jim?

Or is that perspective a product of the Right being "taken over" by Birchers, Minutemen and End-Timers?


et al (none / 0) (#25)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:51:38 PM EST

My knickers are in a twist??

I'm wacky???

Shall we review.

Kristol says the Demo candidates are going to yearly KOS and not to the DLC thing.

Juan says that is because KOS is now the middle...

My comment was that if Juan is correct, the Demos will win in a walk. If wrong, they'll lose.

And you want to dispute that??

Gosh.

: you've made the same point now (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:05:37 PM EST

several times. You don't need to keep restating it.

Kristol and Coulter (none / 0) (#30)
by RedHead on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:52:21 PM EST

"respectible"

I wonder what kristol said after Coulter's slurs at CPAC?

DLC is clueless (none / 0) (#31)
by RedHead on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:05:34 AM EST

I don't know anyone would go to the DLC convention.

Last years convention focused on economics. yeah, just 100 days from the mid-term and the said nothing about Iraq.

Go to their front page and what's their big issue, Iraq? No. It's something called "the global economy project."

The word "Iraq" doesn't even appear on their front page, they don't even have a tab on Iraq, only "the war against terrorism," and you have to dig down to find that.

Thread cleaned again (none / 0) (#54)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:21:15 PM EST

of personal insults. Please stay on topic and take your personal fights to email.