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Why Inherent Contempt III

Posts 1 and 2 here.

Eugene Volokh provides more justification for the use of inherent contempt by the Congress to enforce its subpoenas:

[F]irmly insisting on denying Congress any power to initiate prosecutions of people who resist its commands — commands that Congress wants to argue are lawful — would indeed make it much harder for Congress to make its commands stick. . . . Congress can itself prosecute the contumacious official(s) to coerce them to comply — a power that the Supreme Court has affirmed. . . . As Justice Scalia explained in Young v. U.S. ex rel. Vuitton et Fils, S.A., 481 U.S. at 820, this legislative prosecution authority is a constitutional anomaly of sorts — a "limited power of self-defense" for Congress, permissible because "any other course 'leads to the total annihilation of the power of the House of Representatives to guard itself from contempts . . ."

. . . [H]ere Congress would not only order a prosecution, but could actually try and punish the person, though subject to certain limits. This is a deeper departure from the separation of powers than simply ordering the Justice Department to prosecute — in front of a normal judge and jury — would be.

Nonetheless, it is a departure that is sanctioned by longstanding legal doctrines, and (relatedly) by our constitutional history. . . . [I]t seems like the legally authorized approach — the use of a traditional and narrow departure from standard constitutional norms, and not a new departure.

It seems difficult to see how unitary executive proponents can argue with the power of Congress to commence inherent contempt proceedings while at the same time denying the rights of the courts to review claims of executive privilege. Indeed, Volokh obviously can not. Yet another reason to favor inherent contempt proceedings in the face of the Bush Administration's outlandish assertions.

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    I'd hate for the House to let slide the blatant (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 07:20:36 PM EST
    refusal to appear in response to the sub. to Meiers or Ms. Taylor's claim of exec. priv.  But, I would prefer the House threw the gauntlet on something other than the removal of the US Attorneys--such as the lies forming the basis of the U.S. invasion of Iraw.  

    Inherent contempt creates a constitutional crisis? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Aaron on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:16:42 PM EST
    So let us suppose that the Congress pursues the inherent contempt course, and a number of current and former White House members are seized by some law enforcement arm, I don't know exactly who at this point, who are the cops for Congress anyway.  But supposing you get to this point, what do you guys think George W. Bush will do when confronted with the possibility of his accomplices being incarcerated and perhaps pressured into revealing what they know? Hell with the precedents set by this White House, the Congress my be able to get away with water-boarding them.  At least we know that nasogastric feeding tubes won't be necessary because I can't imagine Karl Rove going on a hunger strike.  Now wouldn't that be the most watched C-SPAN broadcast of all time, Harriet Miers and Karl being dunked in wash basins right there on the House floor.  :-)

    Court-appointed Congressional torturer: Tell us who the traitor is piggy!  

    Karl, dripping on the carpet:  I'll talk I'll talk! Just don't dunk me again please!

    But let's just say that we got as far as the actual physical seizure of White House officials, does anyone here seriously think for one moment that George would stand for it?  He couldn't afford to, just like he couldn't afford to let Libby go to prison.  He cannot allow the the totality of his crimes to be revealed, and while he's in office, I imagine he will do everything in his constitutional power and beyond to prevent such an eventuality, and we all know that he has no problem overreaching executive authority.

     Something like this could push him over the edge, literally.  I don't even want to think about what could happen if someone in this administration, current or former started spilling their guts, and telling everything they know.  I never thought I'd find myself writing this, but perhaps it's better not to have this happen, at least while George is in office.  The man simply has too much power and the possibility of a dire constitutional crisis, one in which the military is used to quell civilian unrest, could become a genuine possibility.

    I think the most frightening thought is that those on the Right, those like our friend jimakaPPJ here, as well as many in critical positions of government and the military, would likely side with the president, regardless of what incontrovertible evidence were to come to light.  If tapes perhaps, such as those Nixon kept, were to be found and the president with his own words confirmed that he had indeed broken the oath he took to the Constitution and the people the United States, even in that eventuality, I think that Jim and those like him would find themselves compelled to take up arms against anyone who would try to enforce the rule of law on this president, even if he were a confirmed traitor.  Though Jim and everyone else in the military took an oath to defend the Constitution and this country against all enemies foreign and domestic when they were sworn in, so obviously this would be a dilemma for them, but it seems that their ideological beliefs would in all probability prevail and cast this president, and he alone, as standing for constitutional authority. I think they would find some plausible rationalization for supporting the man who represents their ideological beliefs regardless of what he's done.

    You correct me if I've mischaracterized you Jim, but I've watched your comments for a long time and I find it hard to believe that there is any lengths to which you would not go in excusing the actions of this president and thereby keeping this country locked on its current ideological course.  Am I wrong?

    Crap, I'm kind of scared of Jim's answer.

    Aaron (1.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:27:32 PM EST
    Your problem is that you can not understand that you can support the national defense, and still be a liberal.

    Think JFK, Humphrey, Scoop Jackson, LBJ...

    The Left's problem is that it has been taken over by people who's agenda is driven by hatred for Bush, and what they see as a loss of power in the 2000 election. That has festered into a something that is a pathology. Some call call it BDS. I now just call it unreasoned hate.

    This hate now means that the US can not win because to do so would prove Bush wrong. Thus everything the US does is always wrong.

    Bush, of course, will be gone in a short while. And no matter who wins the troops won't be coming home. Hillary knows that, and she is going to be the candidate. The others know it too, they're just doing it to satisfy their oversized ego.

    So have a nice night and enjoy your fantasy.

    Parent

    Poor Jim, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings... (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Aaron on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:51:18 PM EST
    ...but somehow I knew you wouldn't answer the question, as to exactly where your loyalties lie.

    But I'll pose the question in a multiple-choice format to make it easier.

    Where do your loyalties lie Jim?

    A. The United States of America.

    B. George W. Bush and his administration.  a.k.a. the treasonous dogs

    C. Vladimir Putin and the resurrected Soviet Union.

    I'd like to believe it's America, but somehow I think that we both know that deep down inside in that place you keep hidden, you're a Bush lover through and through, right Jim? It's OK, everyone can see it, you can come out of the closet.  Just be who you are Jim, you'll feel so much better about yourself.

    Parent

    Aaron, I think this point is where ppj (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:13:10 PM EST
    goes into complete avoidance and ignore mode.

    Parent
    He went to bed... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Aaron on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:33:00 PM EST
    ... but he'll be back again in the morning.

    Jim is nothing if not consistent.

    But sometimes I feel bad for him, and many of the Conservatives who have been so let down and used by the people they put their faith in.  It's not an easy thing to come to the realization that the people you support politically care nothing for you, and take you entirely for granted.

    Perhaps the Bush administration will be enough to rouse them from the hypnotic slumber they have suffered under for so many years.  One can only hope.

    Parent

    Yawn..... Aaron (1.00 / 1) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:51:23 PM EST
    Do you still beat your wife??

    I gave you  calm, reasoned response to your greatly over heated rhetoric.. I quote:

    Court-appointed Congressional torturer:  Tell us who the traitor is piggy!  

    Karl, dripping on the carpet:  I'll talk I'll talk! Just don't dunk me again please!

    And you actually thought you would receive a comment???

    Really. How drool.

    I was kind enough to point out my position that I am a social liberal who believes in national defense..

    As I have pointed out time and time again, my social positions put me at odds with Bush, but being rational, I have found that I don't have to agree with everything thing people do to take advantage of the things that they do that I am in agreement with. In fact, most people find that a rather mature, rational appoach to life.

    Since you have been around a while, and since I have pointed all of this out before, I assumed you had read it at least once and were capable of remembering it.

    BTW - All of these are in the archives.

    So you were either willfully disregarding facts that you had previously been told, or have the world's worst memory.

    Being gracious, I assumed the latter and went back over the basics. My reward was a bunch of BS from both you and edger.

    Not unexpedcted, mind you.

    So what you read is what you get. Enjoy.

    Parent

    An agenda driven by hatred of Bush (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:58:43 AM EST
    What an incisive, in-depth analysis.

    Of course to go any further into what engenders the "hatred" would involve examining and hashing out too many actual, specific, issues in the clear light and running the danger of being forced to defend the rabidly illiberal indefensible.

    Better to stick to the Left-is-full-of-hatred mantra.


    Parent

    Un-rouseable. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 04:40:13 AM EST
    He can't deal with it, Aaron. He can't even deal with your comment.

    Parent
    I told you to stay away from the White Lighting (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:42:40 AM EST
    This hate now means that the US can not win because to do so would prove Bush wrong.

    That is one theory. Not a very intelligent one. Another, more plausible theory is that the Iraq war was a bad idea, poorly conceived and poorly executed.

    The Conservatives  conceived it, they executed it, and they own it. Its your war and your defeat, the rest of us are along unwillingly for the ride. Congratualtions and have a nice day.



    Parent

    Hate (Love) to tell you this ;-) (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 03:02:41 PM EST
    The Demos voted for it and I can show you long quotations about how they wanted Saddam's head on a stick.

    So the fact that the beautiful baby grew up to be a ugly adult doesn't mean a thing in the real world.

    Both parties are joined at the hip.

    Parent

    No we are not. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 04:06:25 PM EST
    Yes they are. (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:45:05 PM EST
    Mama, he's looking at me!

    Parent
    Its the conservatives war (none / 0) (#66)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:22:56 PM EST
    The Conservatives  conceived it, they executed it, and they own it. Its your war and your defeat. No liberal was involved in the conception or the execution. You didn't want us, remember?

    Congratualtions and have a nice day.



    Parent

    DA -You too have a short memory (1.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:58:19 PM EST
    As an Independent Social Liberal who is strong on national defense, which I have told you often enough that it must have penetrated, I really wonder why you quote some Repub getting mad a Bush over whatever.

    I think the basic problem with you, Aaron, edger, et al, is that you are not capable of understanding that it is possible to work with the tools you have to get what you want.

    Parent

    DA (1.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:33:04 AM EST
    Let me see.

    We are engaged in a global war. Iraq is one battle.

    And you want to leave Iraq.

    You think that is logical and will not be seen as a loss by the world, including the terrorists.

    Okay. Fine. You may return to The Twilight Zone...

    Parent

    Jesus. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:35:42 AM EST
    Is ppj STILL supporting al-Qaeda?

    Christ, you'd think he would have learned by now that the whole world is determined to eliminate terrorists.

    Amazing. I guess some people will just never get it.

    Parent

    DA (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 03:05:26 PM EST
    The terrorists will try to spin it, of course, but as we see, you're taking the side of the terrorists on this issue.

    Try???

    Let's see. US invades. Terrorists oppose. Demos say war is lost US leaves.

    Spin?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Parent

    DA loves strawmen (1.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:43:39 PM EST
    For some reason you seem to think that if we become engaged in a war and if the enemy shows up, we should leave.

    My only possible comment is:

    Huh???

    Parent

    DA - Lives in the past (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 10:26:06 AM EST
    It doesn't matter who was there, or wasn't there when we invaded. That is in the past.

    What matters is that if we lose, we lose in the present.

    The loss will be seen as a loss, and will impact our future relations with every country and every terrorist group.

    Parent

    ppj, what you dont (none / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 10:47:20 AM EST
    get (more like refuse to get), is that you need moral credibility to maintain public support for adventures like this. When you make your case based on obvious distortions, transparent Madison Avenue hocus pocus and flat out dastardly lies, the slow-to-catch-on public eventually catches up with the self-serving b.s. Suprise.

    Parent
    Try answering his question (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:34:07 PM EST
    and addressing his points directly, instead of your juvenile attempts at avoidance, ppj.

    Or are you unable to avoid the juvenile avoidance now?

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 06:57:20 PM EST
    Nothing could suit the Repubs better than for the Demos to lock somebody up without going through what is the usually understood judical process.

    And you can explain until the cows come home but it will be seen as an overt grab of power driven by the Left.

    Ha, ha, ha, good one! (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Sailor on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 07:49:11 PM EST
    it will be seen as an overt grab of power driven by the Left.
    after years of 'signing statements', 'unitary exec', violating the constitution and GenCons and ignoring all over site it's the left that's making a power grab.

    Geebus, who writes this your material?

    But I am comforted because every prediction ppj has made has turned out to be wrong.

    Parent

    You didn't object when Bush decided (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:11:17 PM EST
    he could lock up an American citizen indefinitely without trial or evidence. What's your problem now?



    Parent

    Get in the game. Your facts aren't. (1.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:21:57 AM EST
    Talkleft12-17 1:06PM

    Lavocat - Check the archives. I have always supported trials in the US criminal justice system for all US citizens.

    The argument for holding him would be that he had valuable intelligence that could only be obtained over time, or that information he has given can only be checked out over time, or that a public trial could reveal the sources of intelligence and put agents in harm's way.

    The other point is, if the crime is committed outside the US, is the US required to try him within the US??

    I confess, I don't know. My bias is, has been and will remain.

    Try him as a citizen, and if convicted, hang him. That should be the fate of any citizen who decides to take up arms against his country. It is the ultumate betrayal.

    Parent

    I agree. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:35:49 AM EST
    Try Bush as a citizen. Since he is one. Give him a fair trial, then hang him. Cheney too. Maybe some of their supporters too.

    The only question left, ppj, is do they deserve better treatment and fairer judicial proceedings than they've given to other American Citizens?

    Or do you think that what Cheney and Bush and their supporters offer to other Americans is good enough for them too?

    So I Remember Ev'ry Face - Of Ev'ry Man Who Put Me Here

    The original court filings, psychiatric evaluations, affidavits, and photos of Jose Padilla documenting some of his treatment in the Navy brig, are here.

    The treatment that Jose Padilla has been subjected to at the hands of his own countrymen and his own government flies in the face of every standard of human decency and every ethical and moral standard ever conceived.



    Parent
    You are simply ... (none / 0) (#21)
    by chemoelectric on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:04:59 PM EST
    ... wrong. Congress's approval numbers will go up, even while the Big Bad GOP Wolf huffs and puffs. And, because Bushâ€<sup>TM</sup>s he-manly play-acting will appear feeble, he will further lose the support of his Big Bad Base.

    Parent
    woops (none / 0) (#22)
    by chemoelectric on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:06:55 PM EST
    that should say 'Bush's he-manly play-acting'. This site is dumb about Unicode.

    Parent
    Molly B and sailor (1.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:26:53 PM EST
    I have no problem. You do.

    I am merely pointing out what will happen.

    Please be my guest and make sure it does.

    Delusion exemplified. (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:37:05 PM EST
    Well done, ppj. Well, maybe overdone. Burnt, actually.

    Parent
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:48:28 PM EST
    Please be my guest and join MB and sailor.

    The general lack of understanding of the american public by the Left is truly astonishing.

    Parent

    Here (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:49:49 PM EST
    Maybe this will help you. I don't have much faith though.

    Parent
    Your entire argument... (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:56:40 PM EST
    ...rests on your firm belief that a majority of the American people are reactionary idiots who, despite the unquestioned constitutionality of Congress's action (and their own dislike of the president), will nonetheless, like a bunch of mentally impaired children, hold Congress in greater contempt for persecuting poor little Harriet Myers and Bolton -- who are aides to a president as reviled as any in this nation's history.

    Reviled by whom?

    A solid majority of the American people.

    This is simple, straightforward logic, Jim.  

    When you're in contempt of Congress, and the President says "I won't allow the courts to look at this", the only legal recourse Congress has left is inherent contempt.  That's all this is about, Jim.  But if you're convinced Americans are just too stupid to grasp that, well, I guess I have more faith in my country than you do.

    Parent

    jahhahahahha (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:22:45 AM EST
    The general lack of understanding of the american public by the Left is truly astonishing.

    ppj belives that his views are representative of the majority of general public.

    What a laugh

    Parent

    You underestimate the American People (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:48:11 PM EST
    MB (1.00 / 1) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:58:12 PM EST
    The public will see this for what it is.

    A political argument.

    Parent

    Why is it a political argument and not a legal one (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:46:47 PM EST
    I said the "public" (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:30:59 PM EST
    Your logical basis for this belief... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:48:15 PM EST
    ...is non-existent.  Your prediction reads as desperate and as if not even you believe it.  I never knew you liked the rule of Kings.  Guess I was wrong.

    You are defending Bush's decision to make himself accountable to no one on what grounds again?  That he only has to win an election and has free reign?  To fix elections by stacking the federal prosecutors office with lackies and election rigging yes-men?  

    If your old bugaboo Clinton had done anything remotely similar to this you'd have been screaming louder than anyone.  Don't even try to suggest otherwise.  At least Clinton had his people testify under oath.  Your half-wit silver spoon trustfund boy doesn't even respect the American people enough to stand up, be a man, and let the chips fall where they may.

    Oh no, he's not hiding anything.  

    Please.

       

    Parent

    Jim's been a monarchist ever since I can remember (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:00:13 PM EST
    MB (1.00 / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:16:30 PM EST
    I can always tell when I write the truth by the protests.

    Parent
    Stay away from Owsley's White Lighting! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:17:38 PM EST
    I guess (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:23:31 PM EST
    one wasn't enough. Here's another. Take both. If they don't work nothing will.

    Parent
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:29:46 PM EST
    Like I said, I can always tell when I score by the moans from the stands.

    BTW - You really can't refute my argument. You know it. I know it.

    Parent

    It's irrefutable. (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:43:03 PM EST
    Because it is a brainless argument.

    Here's another one. Don't OD.

    Parent

    dadler (3.00 / 2) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:56:40 PM EST
    Try to concentrate.

    I am defending no one. I am just describing how the public will react to actions by the non-judical branch of the government.

    Worse, these are women, and I assume have families.

    How about a shot of them hugging their children as they are snatched off to jail??

    Do you remember the Cuban boy, and the picture of him being taken away by armed INS agents in full battle dress?? How many votes do you think that cost??

    Try to think sometimes. You had a popular VP of a popular President during peacetime when the economy was coming off a tremendous boom.

    How could Bush ever even get close?

    People are very sensitive over such things. Congress may have the right.

    They'll be fools to excercise it.

    Parent

    The Cuban Boy??? (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:05:22 PM EST
    You mean the kid who was reuinited with the father that loved him and wanted to take him home?

    If that cost anyone votes, well, sometimes the right thing to do is the hardest because it WON'T make you popular.  

    However, my boy, the two situations are about as incomparable as you could get.  Why?  A little boy is a sympathetic figure.  Neither Meirs nor Bolton will get anything within a solar system of that kind of sympathy.  They are extenstions of a president reviled by his own nation.  

    Parent

    dadler (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:13:54 PM EST
    You, and the Left in general, are why you lose elections.

    Parent
    Walls closing in? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:16:40 PM EST
    delusional (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by Sailor on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:56:18 PM EST
    66% of Americans disagree with you.

    Parent
    da, sailor, mb, et al (1.00 / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:36:12 PM EST
    I love it.. keep on trying to convince yourself..

    BTW - Congress, which is now DEMOCRATIC ran, has terrible ratins...

    Parent

    DA can't focus (1.00 / 1) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:21:44 AM EST
    Clarify what and by who? Glen Greenwald?

    Surely you jest. (But of course you don't.) I'd as soon accept Kristol as Greenwald when it comes to politics. Neither can see past their nose.

    He claims that the Demo controlled Congress has poor ratings from Demos because it isn't investigating the Executive enough. No proof. Just a claim.

    Could it be that they are disgusted with the fact that the DEMOS aren't addressing any of the problems of the country? Corruption? Earmarks? Healthcare? Energy?

    No. Of course not!!!!! It is because Congress isn't doing what the Left wants!!!!!! (Careful. Heavy sarcasm.)

    Parent

    Have more coffee. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:37:30 AM EST
    Read. Pay Attention. Deluding won't help you.

    WASHINGTON - Dismal approval ratings for the Democratic-led Congress - even worse than President Bush's - don't seem to be a threat to the party in next year's elections.

    Congress' reputation is hurt by widespread anger over the war in Iraq
    , and lawmakers' inability to change the war's course. On that point, Republicans are still far more vulnerable than Democrats, say strategists in both parties.
    ...
    "The Democrats now own a share of discontent with national conditions, but it's a minority share. People still look to the White House and Republicans" as the people responsible for most of the discontent, said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press.
    ...
    The numbers for Congress are the worst in a year, and match the dubious standing of the GOP Congress in 2006, months before voters rejected Republicans en masse. AP's survey indicated that the war, more than anything else, was seen as the most important problem facing the country.
    Forbes, July 20/07

    Parent
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:40:29 PM EST
    The Democrats now own a share of discontent with national conditions, but it's a minority share. People still look to the White House and Republicans"

    The issue is who will win in 2008.

    Bush isn't running, so beating up on him won't work.

    The individual races are just that. I don't have the numbers, but historically people have disdained Congress but loved their rep/senator. Overall it should be remembered that the Demos took control based on some very slim wins in 2006. That "minority share" could very easily be their undoing.

    Parent

    Don't support linking to my own past comments, (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:12:01 PM EST
    but, --- I did mention "Little Elian" and the Janet Reno rescue from the Little Havana branch of the family in a comment in BTD's first post-conversion diary on inherent contempt.

    OT but interesting:  although at the time I thought Elian belonged with his father, I've changed my mind after reading Waiting for Snow in Havana and reading the author's thoughts on the subject of Little E.  

    Parent

    The chivalry card Jim? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:37:12 PM EST
    Chivalry is dead thank God.....died when Guinevere stepped out on Arthur and women had to be responsible for their actions without Knightly and Kingly protections.  Every time some guy who doesn't know me is trying to be chivalrous toward me he is usually using me for his own personal agenda.  Imagine that!

    Parent
    What?? (1.00 / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:15:42 PM EST
    It won't be me. The Demo Congress will do it for the Repubs.

    Parent
    Elian Gonzalez's return to his father in Cuba... (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Aaron on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:26:54 PM EST
    ...was a parental custody issue, where a judge interpreting the law made the final determination.

    While politics was involved, the law prevailed as, ideally, it always should.

    Yet another example of your insistence on placing ideology ahead of the law, and ethical morality Jim.

    Basically your argument is that winning by any means is all that counts, even if you sell out the American people and destroy the Republic in the bargain, it's OK as long as you hold onto to the last tiny thread of power as everything collapses around you.  If the Conservatives must abandon their integrity and destroy democracy in order to keep themselves in power, then I submit that they have lost all perspective, and are destined to self-destruct over and over again.

    Parent

    Re Harriet Meiers: (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:06:53 PM EST
    single, as I recall,in dedicated service to Mr. Bush, the younger.

    Parent
    That load of hooey (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 04:02:01 PM EST
    from the guy who wants to publicly string up young American soldiers (an ingenious p.r move if there ever wasn one), for disobeying orders.

    Parent
    Who do we need to push, and when? (none / 0) (#1)
    by jerry on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 06:07:14 PM EST
    I am concerned that if Congress delays prosecution with inherent contempt past the recess, nothing will happen when they get back.

    Are my fears justified?

    What do you think the timing of this should be, or will be?

    Though I have never watched a bloggingheads all the way through -- I don't hate myself THAT much -- it might make for an interesting blogging heads debate.  30 minutes total!  One constitutional law blogger mano a mano with another constitutional law blogger.

    Two bloggers enter....

    Now We Know (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 06:03:27 PM EST
    Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) warned Gonzales yesterday: "My suggestion to you is you review your testimony to find out if your credibility has been breached to the point of being actionable," Specter said. Time reports, "The maximum penalty for being caught lying to Congress is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 per count. Specter wryly noted to reporters during a break that there is a jail in the Capitol complex."

    think progress

    Not that I believe Specter is going to put any of BushCo in it. Still, there are others to do the job.