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Clinton Campaign Goes Active in Nevada, South Carolina

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 02:54:46 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, 2008 (all tags)
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Yesterday the speculation was whether Hillary Clinton would forego Nevada and South Carolina.

In Nevada, Obama expected (and now has received) two union endorsements. In South Carolina, where half the Democratic voters are African-American, a New Hampshire win might have produced an Obama tidal wave.

The Clinton campaign has announced its plans. It's going to fight for Nevada and South Carolina, as well as the "Super Duper Tuesday" states.

For those of us who want as long a primary season as possible, so more Democratic voters will have the opportunity to meaningfully participate in the choice of a nominee, this is good news.

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    Clinton Campaign Goes Active in Nevada, South Carolina | 52 comments (52 topical)

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    Another good thing about Hillary's win (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kovie on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:24:32 PM EST
    is that it forces Obama to work harder and be clearer about why he's the better alternative to her (and Edwards), and shows that his gauzy brand of sunny positivism isn't likely to cut it with the electorate. It might get people to support him softly in polls and before they have to vote. But when it comes down to casting that vote, I don't think that it'll be enough to retain their support, and a lot of them will end up breaking either for Clinton or McCain.

    This presents two challenges to him, which will be hard to address at once. Since he's run on a campaign to appeal to a spectrum of voters from the soft right to the soft left (the hard right was never in play and the hard left he relinquished to Edwards), anything he says or does to solidify his support from the right and center will alienate his support from the left, and anything he says or does to solidify his support from the left will alienate his support from the right and center. And since he can no longer run on mushy optimistic centrism and has to better define himself, he will have to decide which flank is more important to him--the left, which he'll need to get the nomination, or the right, which he'll need to win the general.

    Ouch. He may well have set himself up with his pre-election positioning. If he defines himself as a strong progressive, he may well beat Hillary, but it'll likely cost him in the general--especially against McCain. But if he stays in the center, he may well lose the nomination to Hillary, since she's more of a true centrist.

    Very disappointing (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:53:02 PM EST
    the California "honk and holler for Hillary" events do not include San Diego.  (Snark.)  I am pleased her campaign is proceeding full strength.

    In spite her not being the most attractive (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:06:13 PM EST
    candidate to me on the issues, me too ;)

    Parent
    Want to come out and "honk and holler" (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:06:18 PM EST
    w/me?

    Parent
    Call me a hater if you will (none / 0) (#1)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:24:25 PM EST
    But I don't see how all of a sudden supporting Hillary is about ensuring a strengthened democratic process. That's hyperbolic considering she has a huge lead in Super Duper Tuesday states. The storyline, if it's about a long primary, should be about John Edwards then. Edwards winning SC seems like it would make the race more wide open and longer, but if Obama or Clinton run the early table, it MIGHT be all over.

    Still I don't see how an Obama loss in Nevada or SC doesn't give the whole thing to Hillary, so your comment that,

    For those of us who want as long a primary season as possible, so more Democratic voters will have the opportunity to meaningfully participate in the choice of a nominee, this is good news

    is ridiculous.

    But as NH showed, "huge leads" (none / 0) (#3)
    by kovie on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:34:49 PM EST
    mean nothing. If Obama had won NH, that "huge lead" would likely have been meaningless, and he would likely have been well positioned to breeze through the nomination process. Her upset win makes it competitive again. And while that might upset Obama or Edwards supporters (or Hillary "haters"), I view it as good for Democratic politics, because it'll force Obama to better define himself as a true Democrat, and not as some vaguely sunny centrist with progressive inclinations.

    Had he won easily, and become president, he might well have governed as more of a centrist, since he will have proven to not have needed the left to win. Now that he needs to sweat it out, he's going to have to better define himself, which I think means positioning himself as the true progressive in comparison to Hillary.

    And yes, I know, Edwards is the "true" progressive, but he doesn't have a chance at this point, and anyone who disagrees needs to show me the math that has him winning. A brokered convention does not favor Edwards. It's Obama vs. Hillary at this point, which to me means who will be better able to define themselves as a true Democrat in the FDR (and not DLC) mold. I.e. a fighting progressive, but one who still has wide appeal to the center and soft right.

    Hillary's NH win forces that, which is good.

    Parent

    Hillary (none / 0) (#4)
    by HeadScratcher on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:36:55 PM EST
    Please don't think that Hillary will govern as anything other than a centrist. As Bill showed, and Hillary must have agreed because of her intelligence and experience, their political survival is much more important than actually taking a progessive stand on issues.

    She will be a moderate, like it or not.

    Parent

    They are all moderates (3.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:52:09 PM EST
    including Obama and Edwards, though Edwards is less of a centrist now than in 2004.  Only Kucinich is any different.

    A moderate Democrat is still light years better than any Republican in my view.

    Parent

    Jeralyn, (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by HeadScratcher on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:10:10 PM EST
    While your statement "A moderate Democrat is still light years better than any Republican in my view." may be correct it doesn't match the excitement many people on this site or others have toward her. Sure, she'll be the first female president. That will feel good for awhile but then what? Would you have voted for Thatcher or Merkel?

    And it's not her moderation that I'm opposed to. She'll be a moderate when it's good for her, she'll be a conservative when it's good for her (Iran?, Iraq?) and she'll be liberal when it's good for her. While this is politics, with the Clinton's it becomes much more than that. It becomes about them and their survival and not just as a compromise to get things done.

    For instance, you support Hillary because she can win and because she's a woman. That's fine. But you are also an outspoken, intelligent woman who is excitingly supporting a candidate who is pro death penalty, pro Iraq war, pro Iranian war, pro NAFTA, and will be pro-everything else that will make her look good. Yes, she'll replace liberal justices with other liberal justices and that is a good reason to vote for her. But be honest and say she is a bad candidate that we have to support in order to win the White House and not that she's a great (or even good)candidate and person - because this site's ideals and Sen. Clinton don't really mesh too well...

    Parent

    Well... (none / 0) (#8)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:00:18 PM EST
    They're all far away from the Kucinich platform, to be sure. If that makes them moderate, I will agree with you.

    Parent
    Again you may not like what I'm going to say but (none / 0) (#7)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    Obama is a true progressive (1), the idea that this race is wide open is questionable though yes it is "competitive", (2), and I believe Obama has routinely given his positions on policy matters only to be shouted down for not sounding nice enough and for "piling on", so the idea that he's acting like a "sunny centrist" is highly questionable. (3)

    The Obama rhetoric, from what I can tell, has about as much to do with policy as Edwards and Clinton messages do. It's just delivered better and so progressives, wary of a charismatic figure (and not without reason, do not get me wrong) seek to find flaws and as such seem to take up the media narrative that Obama is a vapid demagogue. (Something I think Obama is still trying to disprove when he talks about the changes he wants to make, without losing his idealistic message)

    Parent

    Jeralyn has always liked the (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:04:13 PM EST
    Hillary candidate.  As for people like me who support Hillary in not being attacked for having girl naughty bits, every woman in America and those who care for them deeply aren't going to stand for that so if people want a race about the issues instead of race about misogyny prevention the ball's in their court now and it isn't a Hardball ;)

    Parent
    So wait (none / 0) (#11)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:08:46 PM EST
    Does this mean the press was good to Hillary? Like how trash talk before a game can get a player into a world of hurt?

    Parent
    I couldn't help noticing (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:29:22 PM EST
    how Hillary possibly losing in New Hampshire seemed to give birth to really really nasty vile stuff in many people in the press and at DailyKos and all over.  Stuff that had nothing to do with the issues and only seemed to be about finally having a good defenseless dog to kick and blame for whatever ails you that day.  My God I even saw a diary about how she lost her twang like it was a conspiracy ;)  I seem to lose my twang and find my twang every single trip I take between Alabama and Colorado but I myself can never seem to hold my own twang in both hands and clearly see it.  All that bull seems to have blown up in everyone's face though.  I was never a Hillary supporter so when her supporters claimed "Hillary Hate" I was skeptical for awhile seeing clear signs of it here and there.....consider me fully cured of my blindness this past week ;)

    Parent
    it has become sport (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:39:15 PM EST
    blood sport.


    Parent
    See Kos. Knock it off, she might win! (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:44:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Kos hates to be "WRONG" (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:56:29 PM EST
    You can accuse him of it and he doesn't give a rip but if it happens to him with proof he just can't do it.  It's psychically devastating to the man.  I love him.  He saunters into the room and says something stunning but God help him if it doesn't come true....it's really hard on him ;)  I'm betting he was a very good soldier when he was in uniform because all the good ones seem to have all those same characteristics.  He needed more female superiors though.  There's a lot more girls serving with some serious rank now, he needs to be called up ;)

    Parent
    I wouldn't want to mention any names, as you (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:59:21 PM EST
    did, but have you actually encountered any bloggers who generally admit when they are wrong?  Don't think it is part of the personality make-up for success as a blogger.

    Parent
    How many people period (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:02:14 PM EST
    Would want to admit they're wrong? I theorize that all people think they're right, so I wonder who would really just sincerely and openly admit they're wrong without at least having their fingers crossed?

    Parent
    Well, women (and I am a woman) have (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:05:13 PM EST
    a tendency to admit their self-perceived failings much more quickly than men do.  I read it in the newspaper!  

    Parent
    winners (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:06:23 PM EST
    can admit when they are wrong because they arent afraid of it.  They know it doesnt define them.

    Parent
    Yeah baby (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:12:25 PM EST
    And I'm a winner not a whiner.......at least not in the past five minutes.  Well, now that I think about it I'm not sure if it has been five minutes or four minutes.  I could be completely wrong here and whined two minutes ago ;)

    Parent
    Leaving tracks in print. Bad idea. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:20:08 PM EST


    Parent
    funny (none / 0) (#51)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:44:02 PM EST
    tracks in print..nice line.

    Parent
    Sad to see it so much in the blogosphere (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:46:03 PM EST
    where so many claim to be above the Republican virtue of blood letting for fun.  Even saw people claiming to not care for Hillary because she is hawkish resort to blood sport.  I suppose they're Hawks on Hawks ;)

    Parent
    they have to (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:51:19 PM EST
    vent their spleen and have no where else to do it.

     

    Parent

    Put down the Doritos and get a treadmill ;) (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:59:04 PM EST
    I got an elliptical trainer.....I had to right now cuz I have stress.

    Parent
    As an Obama guy, I agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:47:02 PM EST
    I have ALWAYS hated the nitpicking for multiple reasons besides the obvious anger at anti-Clinton hysteria (which I don't understand):

    1. If she wins, she'll be given extra baggage for the general. We do not need that.

    2. If she loses, then whoever wins fights an emboldened enemy, after all it worked on a Clinton, it HAS to work on Obama or Edwards.

    3. It was inevitably (no pun intended) going to lead to a backlash I felt, against my guy. It just may have and that is sickening because I really believe in his positions and his message and to see it be so completely ignored by a large swath of Democrats because Chris Matthews is a jackass is disheartening to the fullest extent.

    I honestly think if we got back to the issues, Obama would've done better. I believe that sincerely, and that's part of why I HATE the media's negative campaign against Hillary.

    Parent
    Now I'm on the same page with you (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:01:09 PM EST
    What happened caused the issues to become the background.  Dear God that's the last place any of us need them to be no matter who we may hold dearer to our hearts.

    Parent
    I think Bruno Sammartino is better (none / 0) (#14)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:31:53 PM EST
    than Bobo Brazil.

    Sorry, I don't feel like rooting for a horse race when it feels like professional wrestling.

    Which states have Diebold or other electronic voting machines? Who is the Secretary of State or other official who certifies them? Those are the questions that need answers before any of this means anything more than Bobo's flying dropkick.

    I'm hoping I'm not meeting (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:40:12 PM EST
    one of the Clinton vote stealing theorists for the first time.  I have heard rumors that such people are out there ;)  I'm a woman.  In the final two days of New Hampshire I became genuinely concerned about the level of the bashing and I'm almost positive I wasn't as exposed to it as New Hampshire voters were.  I became openly concerned yesterday morning about it and even posted about it fully expecting that Hillary would be losing New Hampshire.  I can't afford to have my first real female contender for the Presidency to go down in that fashion in this country and apparently New Hampshire thinks so too.  And I'm thinking today that I'm grateful to them for that.

    Parent
    You missed yesterday's revelation (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:45:18 PM EST
    both Gloria Steinem and Ms. magazine were CIA fronts.

    Parent
    God I've missed you so much (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:49:10 PM EST
    nobody reads at the rate and speed that you do.  I bought this computer reading program hoping to improve my abilities but.....er.....I've been busy and haven't been doing it.  It really works when you do your daily exercises.  I will never know how you cram so much into your computer time but I'm grateful for your friendship.

    Parent
    I missed you too. Saw you at DK and (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:53:02 PM EST
    Docudharma but I am mostly reading here these days, which why I have NEVER felt vindicated!

    Parent
    I needed some feel good stuff to my blog (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:06:00 PM EST
    time and Docudharma has a supportive community. It is very hard to have a spouse serving in the midst of all this and stay with the issues without some feel good support.  As the birth of Zoey approached and I worked with my daughter to get herself centered I needed to blog some feel good.  Talkleft is very very factual and a certain kind of oasis of sanity as well though.  I always intended to show up but full days lately.

    Parent
    I kind of gave up on Docudharma. (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:09:34 PM EST
    I am most interested in political issues, which are more thoroughly and frequently considered here.  DK gives me a head ache except the reading and SNLC parts.    

    Parent
    I saw you around dharma (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:25:38 PM EST
    a bit.  I miss Armando's voice there.  They've tried hard to stay out of the fray of the primary to create community and succeeded somewhat but there is always some price to pay for staying out of the fray.  DK gives me a headache too this minute. I noticed that Kos also acknowledged that things probably won't be getting better anytime soon, such is the price paid for building the first and most diversified now all in competition with each other.

    Parent
    The DKers seem to have picked their (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:28:03 PM EST
    candidates and will stick with them to the end.

    Parent
    It's just nuts sometimes right now (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:31:04 PM EST
    I read some stuff at the moment and my friends are scaring me.

    Parent
    Blacks in S. Carolina (none / 0) (#18)
    by bob h on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:44:47 PM EST
    If you are black, do you go for one of your own with
    flashy oratory but a thin resume, or for a proven war-horse who has a better chance of delivering on promises when elected?  I think the latter has some weight.

    To whom has South Carolina (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:48:28 PM EST
    Dem. primary gone in the past; to whom do African American voters in South Carolina look to as leadership; how influential are the churches in South Carolina as to these voters; are these voters concerned about a woman's right to choose an abortion?

    Parent
    She's a proven war-horse alright (none / 0) (#28)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:59:12 PM EST
    More like a Trojan Horse for Democrats who oppose the war in Iraq and a possible war in Iran. I do not have a shadow of a doubt that if she were in the general she'd be talking about going on the offense like Giuliani or about keeping the pressure on Iran and keeping nothing off the table like Bush does. I get that impression from her record, and so is she proven? Yep, but what's she proven to me is that she's not my candidate.

    The thing about blacks going for one of their own with flashy oratory is that while a quaint little comment, it belies the fact that Obama has, as recently as in his concession speech last night, laid out positions he would pursue as President that are true changes from the status quo. It also doesn't say that he's had a record of not only working in public service as a legislator, but also as a community organizer throughout Chicago's South Side. I don't believe black voters like myself are deceived by your disingenuous message about Senator Obama. I believe many black voters are more educated about the issues than you'd like to believe and they're going to vote for any number of the candidates, based not only on background, (remember many of those black voters are women, too) but also on issues like Social Security, Iraq, jobs, crime, and healthcare, but also on how they believe can take this country in the right direction for themselves and a progressive future. Who can make the country more equitable of the two, I believe is the question, and I think they'll side with Senator Obama when it's all said and done.

    Parent

    Nicely stated in your second paragraph. (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:02:16 PM EST
    Not sure the resulting victor will by Barack Obama, but I certainly believe black voters, like all other voters, will think for themselves and make individual, hopefully well-informed, decisions.  

    Parent
    Yeah, (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:08:15 PM EST
    My blood boils when some say, and this is true of blacks and whites and anyone else, that blacks are like sheep and they don't know how to vote intelligently. It's aggravating.

    Parent
    And don't worry (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:08:49 PM EST
    Obama will win. ;)

    Parent
    It is good you are here to speak up. (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:10:29 PM EST
    Has MI dug out of the snow dump yet?

    Parent
    Heh, sorry, I realize now how confusing (none / 0) (#42)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:18:18 PM EST
    My username is...maybe I should lowercase the m in Michigan.

    I'm in IL near Chicago. The Lake Michigan is in reference to the Lake, which I revere like us Obama supporters revere the Senator. (joke)

    But Illinois is nice, news tells me Michigan is about to get better. It's supposedly thawing today, so we'll see. But sorry about the confusion over the name.

    Parent

    So, are you a lawyer? (joke). (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:21:36 PM EST


    Parent
    Actually... (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:31:53 PM EST
    Nope, hehe. I do, though, hope to get my law degree from UW-Madison in the future.

    Parent
    Go for it. (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:33:24 PM EST


    Parent
    How shocking (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:37:31 PM EST
    A future lawyer here ;)

    Parent
    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 05:53:32 PM EST
    Why do you think I would join in the first place, lol? Actually one of my favorite stories I saw when I was first here was about the decrease of the crack-powder disparity, and so for many of the crime-related stories I stay just to read and be fascinated, while the politics allows me to converse with people, many of whom strongly disagree with me. (I'm working my way up to being able to go on conservative blogs and argue, although part of me doesn't think it's worth it)

    Parent
    Clinton Campaign Goes Active in Nevada, South Carolina | 52 comments (52 topical)

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