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Monday Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 12:55:42 PM EST
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    Per a commenter at 538 (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by magster on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:09:50 PM EST
    Reality Check Update:

    Daily trackers comparison - last Monday/Today

    R2000/Kos: O+8/O+8
    Rasmussen: O+4/O+5
    Hotline: O+5/O+8
    Zogby: O+6/O+5
    Battleground: O+1/O+3
    Gallup RV: O+11/O+10
    Gallup LV1: O+9/O+10
    Gallup LV2: O+5/O+5

    Average Change since last week: O+.625

    McCain isn't shaking anything up.

    How about us blowing up... (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:12:05 PM EST
    a site in Syria, supposedly killing some civilians.  National sovereignty ain't what it used to be...good thing they don't have any nukes or a military to speak of.

    Nothing like a little dust-up (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:16:45 PM EST
    with Syria to get people's mind off the economy?  Could that be the October/November surprise?  

    Parent
    The way the story... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:22:40 PM EST
    was buried in the local paper, well behind the cover story of sextuplets being born, I doubt it is the October surprise.  I'm very surprised how little play it has gotten...droppin' bombs has become ho-hum I guess, which is pretty sad unto itself.

    Bombing nearly defenseless nations...no wonder we're considered the bully of the world.

    Parent

    Perhaps response (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:32:34 PM EST
    will be October surprise.

    Parent
    I've given up.... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:59:58 PM EST
    on any kind of numbers of my fellow Americans giving a sh*t...overseas, out of mind I guess.

    Parent
    We need to hear more about that. (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by indy in sc on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:21:02 PM EST
    There's so little reporting on it so far.

    Parent
    Author Tony Hillerman dies (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by magster on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:19:55 PM EST
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/27/tony-hillerman-dies-at-83_n_138069.html

    His books were fun beach/airplane reads.

    I screwed up link (none / 0) (#6)
    by magster on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:20:27 PM EST
    please delete and sorry.

    Parent
    Sorry to hear that. (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 10:27:51 PM EST
    Did you read his memoir Seldom Disappointed?

    Parent
    What parent in their right mind... (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:42:26 PM EST
    lets an 8 y.o. kid shoot an Uzi?  Very sad...

    An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

    The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, police Lt. Lawrence Vallierpratte said.

    Police said the boy, Christopher Bizilj, of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and called the death a "self-inflicted accidental shooting."

    As the boy fired the Uzi, "the front end of the weapon went up with the backfire and he ended up receiving a round in his head," police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. The boy later died at a hospital.

    http://tinyurl.com/6axpt7

    People who intend to protect themselves (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:18:38 PM EST
    against our own government run amok don't understand that their guns won't help them.  Not even if they have an Uzi.  A gun won't stop a tank, and it can't even stop the local police SWAT team, who will do their job and kill citizens when given misinformation by a dishonest government.  The right to bear arms is meaningless when people can't organize against oppression and fascism.  Yet the fear of loss of control leads some parents to support such inane actions as teaching an 8 year old to shoot an Uzi.

    Perhaps we ought to all commit today to talking to at least one person we know who believes the second amendment is what keeps us safe from fascism, and convince them that working together toward our shared future is a better strategy for survival in the 21st century.


    Parent

    8 years old?.... (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:55:46 PM EST
    Jesus H. Christ...there are no words.

    Parent
    While we are RIPing (5.00 / 0) (#23)
    by smott on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:11:53 PM EST
    Anne Pressly passed away
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h3sRmbkYztmZI0Nrt0KBPjomlK1AD942HK900


    Parent
    Yes? (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:12:52 PM EST
    I have a LOT of words.  The first would be to point out that this poor kid (& family) is going to receive a lot more publicity than the latest kid who dies in a drive by.

    Why?

    Partly the novelty and partly because we have a target for our outrage.  I've been watching what pegs people's outrage meters this year and Rule #1 is that you need to be able to confidently point the finger of blame at as few people as possible.  

    In this case a) The certified instructor and b) The parent(s).

    In a drive by, there's often no suspect for days, weeks and sometimes never.

    Also, our outrage must make us feel more powerful, not less powerful.  A drive by shooting reinforces a sense of helplessness.  An incident like this isn't likely to happen repeatedly.

    Parent

    Meanwhile, (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:46:04 PM EST
    While pundits are discussing Palin's clothes and Obama's grandma, Bush is dropping bombs on Pakistan and killing people in Syria.

    Not much of a peep from anyone.

    We are living in a fool's paradise.

    Stevens guilty on all seven counts (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by rdandrea on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:02:07 PM EST
    Breaking on MSNBC at this moment

    ya (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:07:41 PM EST
    Just saw that. Nice!

    Parent
    Oy (none / 0) (#34)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:03:03 PM EST
    Hello Senator Begich.

    Parent
    We (none / 0) (#54)
    by cal1942 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:40:02 PM EST
    can only hope.  Convicted incumbents have won re-election before.

    Parent
    Taking bets (none / 0) (#44)
    by CST on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:14:51 PM EST
    How many days until a presidential pardon?  I bet it won't happen until after Nov 4th, but will come as a sort of going-away present from Bushie.  Christmas comes early.

    Parent
    Stevens convicted (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by txpublicdefender on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:12:36 PM EST
    Guilty on all counts.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/27/AR2008102700289.html?hpid=topnews

    The jurors were supposed to start their deliberations from scratch today with the new juror, so that clearly didn't take long.

    convicted for now (none / 0) (#43)
    by txpublicdefender on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:14:33 PM EST
    Just wanted to add that I think there is a very good chance this is reversed on appeal on account of all the prosecutorial misconduct.

    Parent
    But not in the next week. . . (none / 0) (#46)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:16:48 PM EST


    Parent
    Two Obama Biden yard signs (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 04:46:50 PM EST
    up in my upscale subdivision now after the weekend.  Nothing dramatic like the two houses that were completely decked out for Kerry, just understated tasteful statements.  Strange thing is the two houses with the signs in the yards weren't the families four years back who made a show out of supporting a Dem for the presidency and it seems that those folks are like me and have chosen to not voice a publicly displayed choice.  The reason why I chose not to was that I feared encouraging vandalism of our property.

    If you had any doubt DoJ tanked (none / 0) (#1)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:07:00 PM EST
    the Stevens case to protect a fellow Republican, please consider this:  they wrote the indictment to say that he checked "no" on a form when he checked "yes".

    Neither defense counsel (bad, lazy defense counsel!) nor the judge caught it.  Nor did the prosecution.  

    The jury caught it.  And one of their notes asked the judge "what are we to do about it?"

    The prosecution argued "it was a typo".

    How f'g lame is that?  

    Where I come from, an error like that in the indictment is a guarantee of acquittal and, failing that, the judge dismissing the indictment on a post-trial motion.

    Dismissal (none / 0) (#10)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:31:54 PM EST
    with or without prejudice?

    Parent
    Not sure - but at this point (none / 0) (#13)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:34:33 PM EST
    I'd suspect double jeopardy would have kicked in and he'd walk.

    Parent
    I see the jury convicted (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:10:29 PM EST
    That's all well and good, but we'll see if the conviction will withstand both the post-trial motions and the appeal.

    And Bushie's inevitable pardon pen.

    But, FWIW, it looks like the jury rejected the "I don't own it, therefore it's not a gift, but I can still wear/use it" argument which Stevens and Palin have been using.

    Parent

    well heck, while we're (none / 0) (#9)
    by cpinva on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:22:44 PM EST
    at it, why not bomb france too? not for any particular reason, just because. they need to be bombed every so often, to keep their egos in check.

    don't kill or injure anyone, just knock down a couple of buildings.

    Might be onto something cp.... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:32:25 PM EST
    dropping bombs is an economic stimulus package of sorts...every bomb dropped needs to be replaced in the arsenal, and that means jobs for bomb-builders.

    Makes sense if you don't mind a little blood on your hands.

    Parent

    There was snark buried in there. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    Somehow the idea of using bombs while carefully not killing people is not reassuring.

    Parent
    More voter intimidation by the right wing (none / 0) (#16)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:50:43 PM EST
    Lawsuits were filed today in U.S. Federal District Court, charging New Mexico Republicans with criminal violations of the U.S. Voting Rights Act.

    One report.

    I hope someone is talking to Hispanics in Florida about this.  ("The GOP is NOT on your side...").

    Child p*rn....... (none / 0) (#18)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 01:59:10 PM EST
    Anybody read about the 13 year old boy who got arrested and held in juvenile detention on child p*rnography charges because a 13 year old girl sent a naked picture of herself to his cell phone?

    No... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:03:10 PM EST
    but it is not at all surprising.  I am surprised he wasn't charged as an adult in our hysterical, heartless, common senseless version of criminal justice.

    Parent
    Kdog...... (none / 0) (#24)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:12:59 PM EST
    I have been reading your posts for a while now and I gotta tell you when I read that article I thought about you (or I should say your kdog persona on TL)!. Maybe it is time for me to step back from the computer... :-)

    In other uplifting news, some lowlife has an effigy of Sarah Palin with a noose around her neck, hanging outside his house for Halloween. AND some people think it is funny. Can you imagine the uproar if someone did that to an effigy of Obama?

    Parent

    That (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by CST on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:34:00 PM EST
    Is terrible.  It's happened to Obama too. There is too much ugliness in this election.  On both sides.

    Parent
    Not sure how to respond... (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:36:12 PM EST
    when my online moniker is immediately associated with a child pornography case...hoping it's because of the joke of a criminal justice angle alone:)

    As for the effigy, definitely not cool...but that is free speech, it comes with lots of unpleasantness, but still well worth it.

    I'm psyched for this years Halloween parade and seeing all the Palin costumes, sure to be many of 'em...wonder which will be better, the traditional female or the transgendered versions.

    Gotta love NYC's Halloween parade:)  

    Parent

    " when my online moniker is immediately (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:56:24 PM EST
     associated with a child pornography case".....{Clarification}....Kdog, I do not think you are a pedophile, I was thinking of your views on some laws being too harsh/ridiculous.

    I would agree with the free speech angle on the effigy only if the same applied to Obama. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure if it had been Obama, the homeowner would have received a visit from the Secret Service and thanks to the  networks the words "r*cist", "KKK", etc would be flynig all over the place.

    NYC's Halloween parade...we just might cross each other in the crowd...my money is on the transgendered versions!

    Parent

    I knew.... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:09:19 PM EST
    what you meant, and thanks for the kind words...I was just kidding around.

    Some animals are more equal than others when it comes to free speech...no doubt.

    I'll probably be rockin' my usual cheap and easy costume again this year...White t-shirt with smokes rolled in the sleeve, blue jeans, Chuck Taylor All-Stars and hair slicked back...voila, instant Greaser.  Introduce yourself my friend, especially if you wanna party:)

    Parent

    I will be looking for you...... (none / 0) (#49)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:21:22 PM EST
    Great, now I sound like a stalker... :-)!

    Parent
    If you do find me... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:26:51 PM EST
    forgive me if I'm not in my right mind...one of my boys is rumored to be supplying psychedelics for the occasion:)

    Parent
    All of this anti-Palin cr*p (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:49:26 PM EST
    like that one -- I've saved the photos and story with boasting boyos and all, is going to make for quite a first-day lecture in women's history courses to come.   With all the videos and photos of anti-Clinton cr*p, we could fill a few hours and never have to say a word, just push buttons.

    It's so nice that both sides pulled this stuff, so that the lectures can be all fair and balanced.  And so that the wearying reply re all this in the primaries, that it was just "that woman," has been so nicely disproved.  

    One more week, and all this will be history -- quite literally.  Gone but far from forgotten. . . .  

    Parent

    Cream City.... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:15:10 PM EST
    I am not trying to get you even more riled up but since you are documenting all of this, you might want to look into the Sarah Palin p*rn video (Nailin' Palin). I heard about it either on TDS or Colbert Report, sorry can't remember. And the icing on the cake...the SP blow up doll.

    Parent
    Larry Flynt.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:23:06 PM EST
    is behind the adult film with the Palin look-alike.

    I can't help but like Larry Flynt...thorn in the side of uptight morality tyrants for many years.

    Parent

    I saw the one of the guy beating up Palin (none / 0) (#60)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 05:16:48 PM EST
    just in time for this Domestic Violence Awareness Month, how lovely.  Have you seen it?  Palin in the Couric interview, and then this huge guy of color, apparently some well-known jock or something, comes barreling in and knocks down Palin (what turns out to be a mannequin).  And then he glories in it.

    I am so disgusted with this country this year.  And many students have said the same, so we ought to have very interesting classes tracing the centuries of so-called progress that led us to this.

    Parent

    Domestic violence..... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 05:35:54 PM EST
    I read about the video but did not watch it because I knew it would really upset me. Nothing like beating up a woman to make some guys feel like real men. Sometimes I think rather than get angry I should feel sorry for them because that is probably their way of covering up some major inadequecies!

    Parent
    hasnt most of the (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by sancho on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:52:35 PM EST
    sexist stuff come from the dem side since the beginning of the primaries? the republicans, having already unleashed anti-hillary narratives, sat back and watched the dems do it to themselves (or to hillary). and then once obama and mccain were nominees, and mccain picked palin, the same anti-hillary sexist dems unleashed their sexist attacks on palin (whose candidacy could be challenged w/o calling attention to her dresses).

    and some former "feminist" hillary supporters like taylor marsh went right along with the switch.

    i know politics is a contact sport  but i think the equal rights for women movement has taken some hard shots this year.

    if people are right that palin has hurt mccain (i cant tell yet), then i think that's in part b/c some dems were able to spring a version of the same sexist trap on mccain-palin that that they sprang on hillary.

    Parent

    someone did it to O (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:09:34 PM EST
    whoever did both should be forced to register as a hate crime offender and we should publish their pic, name and address online and make them report to a parole officer the rest of their life.

    Parent
    Say it ain't so J.... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:14:26 PM EST
    a hate crime?  For extremely poor taste?  Tell me you're being sarcastic.

    I firmly believe in the unalienable right to be an insensitive prejudiced arsehole.  As unpleasant as it is, it beats the alternative.

    Parent

    totally snarking (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:16:52 PM EST
    bad taste, and really stupid way to protest.  Just trying to point out how stupid our laws are.  

    Parent
    Phew.... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:24:46 PM EST
    I thought so, but had to be sure.  No worries brother.  

    I could totally see people feeling that way about it, and that scares me more than any racist/sexist arsehole ever could.

    Parent

    Ughh! The headline (none / 0) (#20)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:01:13 PM EST
    should have read child p*rn charges....looks a little creepy the way I posted it earlier!
    If someone can delete/edit please do so.
    Thanks

    Parent
    Why exactly would she do that? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:18:57 PM EST
    It's both creepy to think he might have asked her for that photo and creepy to think that she would do that unsolicited.

    I think it's past time for both families to have a serious chat about online behavior.  There have been even younger kids recruited for online p*rn.

    Parent

    even creepier (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 05:36:02 PM EST
    That at that age she would feel comfortable even taking the photograph.  My suspicious nature kicks in and wonders who de-sensitized her to n*de photography.

    Chatting with her family might** not yield the result you desire.  

    **NOTE:  I say "might".  I don't know her family and, frankly, I can't even read or research an article on this particular topic on the computer I'm on.

    I'm just sayin'

    Parent

    Either way, intervention is called for. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 05:50:40 PM EST
    While I have nothing against nude images, it's important to teach kids that the internet is not a private place and I include any e-device than can be networked in.  So that image sent to another teenager was just the same as loading that image onto the world wide web for anyone to see - her best friend, her parents, her friend's older brother, her teachers.  With 4-5 years left in school, she could find that image haunting her for a long, long time.

    Parent
    Lowest of the low this election season (none / 0) (#22)
    by eric on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:09:47 PM EST
    thus far anyway.

    Coleman, DFLers assail anti-Franken 'comic book'

    A colorful campaign mailer that looks like a comic book for kids but upbraids DFL Senate candidate Al Franken for writing a racy Playboy article and "comedy routines about raping women" . . .

    This is how low the RNSC has gone in this race.  Even Coleman knows it is way over the line and asked the RNC to stop it.  Of course, he also knows that it could backfire, big time.

    BTD is right!!! (none / 0) (#26)
    by vml68 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:22:55 PM EST
    Obama has won the election.... atleast according to The New Mexico Sun News.

    "The Sun News is a bi-monthly newspaper and its Oct 26-Nov 8 issue had to hit the streets, and the newsstands, before the election. So the editors decided to make a leap of faith and declare Democrat Barack Obama the winner.
    "Obama Wins!" is the headline of the edition on newsstands now, complete with "special collector's edition" in red bold typeface."

    Keep in mind that... (none / 0) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 02:34:45 PM EST
    ...BTD also predicted that Penn State would lose to Ohio State last Saturday.  

    Parent
    Go Phillies!! (none / 0) (#39)
    by chrisvee on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:11:56 PM EST
    You can feel the excitement in the air today.  A win would mean so much to this city.

    Hoping (none / 0) (#56)
    by cal1942 on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 04:02:31 PM EST
    the Phillies can wrap it up at home.

    Parent
    I'm rooting for the Phillies! (none / 0) (#66)
    by liminal on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 09:02:23 PM EST
    Here's hoping my dad can retire his "Tortured Philadelphia Fan" t-shirt this year.  

    Parent
    Just saw this... (none / 0) (#53)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 03:37:18 PM EST
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- ATF says it has disrupted skinhead plot to assassinate Obama, kill 102 black people.
    2 skinheads (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 04:04:01 PM EST
    one rolled on the other while in custody on some other charge.  Methinks just a moron spouting off on his "big plans" and a chance to roll on the other guy.....

    Parent
    We have so much trust and faith... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 04:50:35 PM EST
    in the law enforcement/criminal justice apparatus around here, don't we?

    You would be a fool not to have some healthy skepticism of the ATF's press release though.

    Parent

    Leaked Pro-McCain 527 Ad (none / 0) (#63)
    by Exredstater on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 05:39:30 PM EST
    With the mounting bad news for their campaign, McCain/Palin will have no choice but to go increasingly negative in their attacks. Anybody else see this leaked 527 spot?

    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Leaked_Pro_McCain_527_Negative_Ad_Small_Town_Fear_Itself/

    They Lost My Vote (none / 0) (#65)
    by Lora on Mon Oct 27, 2008 at 07:09:14 PM EST
    Now three music videos about election integrity.  I especially like the middle one by Ellen Bukstel.

    Votes are being flipped already from Obama to McCain in early voting in at least four states.  No worries, we are told.  Just a miscalibration problem or voter error.  Just check your vote on the unverifiable, untraceable, unauditable, Republican-controlled corporate-produced touch screen and fix it.  All's good.  Right?!

    Monday Open Thread | 67 comments (67 topical)

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