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Let's Knock Off the Talk About Preventive Detention

Most people accept the need to detain or quarantine individuals with highly communicable, potentially deadly diseases. Most people accept the need to detain mentally ill individuals who pose a serious risk to the safety of others. Too many people accept the need to detain sex offenders after they've finished their sentences for fear that they pose a substantial risk to reoffend if released.

The concept of preventive detention has prevailed at Guantanamo, albeit in unrecognizable form. When the diseased are no longer contagious, they are released from quarantine. If the mentally ill or "sexual predators" respond to treatment and are no longer dangerous, they're released. It's never been clear what condition, other than an unrecognizable victory in the war against terror, would trigger the release of the Guantanamo detainees. And unlike individuals detained pursuant to civil commitment laws, no Guantanamo detainee has had a hearing the meets even minimum standards of due process to establish a basis for his detention.

A New York Times article today examines whether the Obama administration might adopt a preventive detention law to continue holding Guantanamo detainees. [more ...]

The article cites no evidence, or even a reason to suspect, that Obama would favor a preventive detention law. It suggests, however, that Obama is being pressured to show that he's just as tough as Bush by being just as disdainful of the Constitution. Obama should be confident that Americans will respect his manhood even if he recognizes that the Guantanamo detainees are entitled to fair treatment under the law.

The Times article includes disturbing passages like this:

Even some liberals are arguing that to deal realistically with terrorism, the new administration should seek Congressional authority for preventive detention of terrorism suspects deemed too dangerous to release even if they cannot be successfully prosecuted.

“You can’t be a purist and say there’s never any circumstance in which a democratic society can preventively detain someone,” said one civil liberties lawyer, David D. Cole, a Georgetown law professor who has been a critic of the Bush administration.

It doesn't take a purist to wonder how preventive detention for supposedly dangerous suspects who "cannot be successfully prosecuted" would work. Would Guantanamo be relocated to a remote American island, maybe one of those Alaskan islands with a view of Russia? What standard of dangerousness does it take to detain people who haven't committed provable crimes? What proof of dangerousness would be acceptable? Confessions obtained through torture? Third-level hearsay?

If the Guantanamo detainees committed crimes against the United States, we have civilian and military court systems in place to determine guilt while respecting due process. Even if "several [detainees] have said they would relish an opportunity to kill Americans," what should we do? Hold them until they change their minds or die? If we can't prove that they have acted upon those thoughts, their animosity toward the United States is insufficient reason to brand them as dangerous and to detain them indefinitely.

Fundamental to a free society is the belief that we do not imprison people for their thoughts. Exceptions exist for dangerous thoughts that produce uncontrollable actions, but angry men, even angry jihadists, can control their conduct. If they have not committed provable crimes, they should be released to their home countries no matter what homicidal fantasies they might relish.

The true but unstated rationale for continuing the preventive detention of Guantanamo detainees is: "We can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they participated in harming or conspiring to harm any Americans but we know they were up to no good so we need a lower standard of proof and a system that lets us detain them indefinitely."

Let's not change the rules out of fear. We don't need a new court. We don't need preventive detention. We just need to follow the law.

Barack Obama, Just Say No to preventive detention.

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    Preventive Detention and Preventive War (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by john horse on Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 08:03:02 AM EST
    I was struck by similarities in TChris's arguement against preventive detention and the late historian Arthur Schlesinger's arguement against preventive war.

    Per TChris

    Fundamental to a free society is the belief that we do not imprison people for their thoughts. . . The true but unstated rationale for continuing the preventive detention of Guantanamo detainees is: "We can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they participated in harming or conspiring to harm any Americans but we know they were up to no good so we need a lower standard of proof and a system that lets us detain them indefinitely."

    Schlesinger in his article The Immmorality of Preventive War which he wrote prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq:

    Preventive war is based on the proposition that it is possible to foretell with certainty what is to come.

    The Bush administration hawks just know, if we do not act today, that something horrible will happen to us tomorrow. Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld evidently see themselves as Steven Spielberg's "precogs" in "Minority Report," who are psychically equipped to avert crimes that are about to be committed.

    But the problem with both concepts as Schlesinger points out is:

    Certainty about prediction is an illusion. One thing that history keeps teaching us is that the future is full of surprises and outwits all our certitudes.

    Preventive detention and "unilateral preventive war is neither legitimate nor moral. It is illegitimate and immoral. For more than 200 years we have not been that kind of country."

    yeah, let's just (none / 0) (#1)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 01:27:21 AM EST
    forget that silly old due process thing. prof. cole is right, of course. as you noted, we detain, for the safety of the public, those with deadly communicable diseases, and the dangerously mentally ill. very narrow circumstances.

    to assert that one can extrapolate from there, using the "rationale" that, "by golly, these people have evil thoughts, they must be detained, before they have a chance to act on them!", defies a realistic belief in our constitution and democratic way of life. surely, that's not what the good prof. had in mind, is it?

    the logical progression of events would require that no criminal, having served their time, should ever be released. they might just commit another crime. geez, you think we have a prison inmate population problem now?

    Preventive Detention: a new 'centrist' meme... (none / 0) (#2)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:10:52 AM EST
    I get the feeling that this NYTimes column is sort of a trial balloon. It's putting the idea out there in an ostensible 'non-partisan' fashion and probably laying the ground work for more of the same.

    It doesn't bode well to see this NYTimes columnist (Glaberson) discussing preventive detention as if were a reasonable option. He entertains both sides of the argument as if he were a high school debate moderator. In so doing, he avoids coming to the commonsense conclusion that this is a legally, and morally, reprehensible proposition.

    His concluding remark says the right thing, but it still comes off as a feeble attempt to mollify the left:

    In the end, the Obama administration may conclude that it is simply not feasible to seek a new preventive detention measure. Doing so could portray the new administration as following in the footsteps of President Bush, surely an unlikely goal as Mr. Obama sorts through his options.


    guantanamo detainee release (none / 0) (#3)
    by nitish on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 08:38:48 AM EST
    "It's never been clear what condition, other than an unrecognizable victory in the war against terror, would trigger the release of the Guantanamo detainees"

    a system of review is in place... you may not like that process, but it's in place...
    otherwise 500+ detainees would not have been released and/or transferred.  another 60 are eligible for release/transfer, but arrangements have not been made with their home countries.

    The so-called (none / 0) (#5)
    by TChris on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 12:23:05 PM EST
    "system of review" hasn't done much for the detainees who have been at Guantanamo for 7 years without a hearing or even a chance to learn what they're accused of doing.

    Parent
    it's bad but not THAT bad (none / 0) (#9)
    by nitish on Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 08:50:04 AM EST
    "7 years without a hearing or even a chance to learn what they're accused of doing"

    i believe that's going to far as the Combatant Status Review Tribunals and Administrative Review Boards have been in effect for several years.  yet again, you may not like the procedures and review process, but they exist.
    CSRT memo and ARB notification

    and preemptively, if you say 'but the supreme court...', i'll remind you of previous bogus SCOTUS decisions like dred scott, plessy v ferguson (legalized segregation/racism), korematsu (internment based on skin color), kelo (gov't can take your land to make a vacant lot), etc.  i'll even go so far as say many here probably thought bush v gore was bogus.

    Parent

    You're equating (none / 0) (#11)
    by TChris on Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 11:12:35 AM EST
    the enforcement of the right to habeas corpus with the denial of equal protection in Dred Scott, Plessey and Korematsu?  Sounds like your analysis that's bogus, not the protection of habeas corpus.

    Parent
    i'm equating terrible SCOTUS decisions (none / 0) (#12)
    by nitish on Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 06:42:59 PM EST
    i notice you dropped my kelo citation in order to make some unrelated point.... whatever...

    all the decisions i cited i believe to be questionable on a constituational basis.
    [looking back, i should have added kennedy v louisiana as there was an actual factual error in the decision, but i'm only one man...]

    seriously, there is no consistent logical, legal and/or constitutional line of reasoning behind the rulings of rasul, hamdi, hamdan and boumediene.

    it's almost to the point that guanatanamo detainees have more rights than legal military pow's.

    incidentally, i think the whole issue was moot based on johnson v eisentrager, but again i'm just one man.

    Parent

    i guess i'm just funny (none / 0) (#4)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 11:48:27 AM EST
    about the whole "torture people until they confess something, then use that as a basis for continuing to illegally detain them." process, if that's what you're referring to.

    a system of review is in place... you may not like that process, but it's in place...

    no, i don't like it. no right thinking person would or should. that you would even describe this as a "system of review" is absurd on its face.

    it wasn't a flip of the coin (none / 0) (#10)
    by nitish on Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 08:55:03 AM EST
    over 500 guantanamo detainees have been released.

    they weren't released because they felt sorry for them, were in a good mood, playing even-odds, punch buggy, or the running man (although THAT would be awesome).

    to say "that you would even describe this as a 'system of review' is absurd on its face" is absurd on its face.

    Parent

    It seems to me that a civil commitment (none / 0) (#6)
    by JSN on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 07:48:15 PM EST
    involves risk assessment and risk evaluation and both are subject to error. An error of the first kind is you confine someone that is not dangerous and an error of the second kind is you release someone that is dangerous.

    If there are too many errors of the first kind to avoid errors of the second there will be a negative reaction and some corrections will be made until an equilibrium is reached. Equilibrium does not mean that the outcome is just. Civil commitments are local often by elected judges that are very sensitive to community opinion.

    I wonder if it is possible to evaluate the risk of releasing Guantanamo detainees.

    in the absence of evidence, (none / 0) (#7)
    by cpinva on Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 05:18:17 AM EST
    obtained legally, that these people have actually committed a crime, there should be no "risk analysis" necessary.

    I wonder if it is possible to evaluate the risk of releasing Guantanamo detainees.

    if they have committed a crime, which can be proven in court, subject to all our criminal laws and limitations, then try them. otherwise, we're no better than any other dictatorship.

    that's what the bush administration has reduced us to. thanks big guy!

    Parent