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Hillary and Obama on 60 Minutes

Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are on 60 Minutes tonight.

If you watched, tell us what you thought. Was the coverage even? Did it change your mind or add to your conviction as to which candidate to support?

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    Awk! I got caught up in reading all the comments (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by katiebird on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:13:19 PM EST
    Awk! I got caught up in reading all the comments on this post and TOTALLY forgot the time.  I missed it!

    Still, I really enjoyed it the thread.  You've got great commenters here.

    Well! (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:16:59 PM EST
    I thought Steve Kroft was very even-handed.  I was really annoyed at Katie Couric's "just us girls" thing in the beginning.  This is an interview with perhaps the future POTUS, not a pajama party.  Reminds me of the Tavis Smiley interview Clinton did where she said that people never talk about policy or a great speech when a woman talks--it's all about her outfit and hair.

    I bit my tongue when Obama said he was not politics as usual.  Waited for Kroft to say something, but he didn't.  I guess it would've opened a can of worms and these certainly were not hard-hitting interviews.  Couric tossed some heavier questions to Clinton at the end, but it was mostly soft stuff.  Obama keeps talking about that poll where he "beats" McCain in the ge, but there was a new CNN poll today showing Hillary "beats" McCain.  Doubt that will change the narrative.

    I mentioned this on the other thread, but when Clinton started talking about how she mentored Obama when he first got into office, all I could think about was what Teresa said about her male subordinates asking her to make copies.  I am firmly in the Hillary camp, as y'all know, but that one part just made me think, "Jeesh, he stabbed you in the back big time."

    On the commercials, they said that Obama was going to talk about his cocaine use, so I was waiting for that.  Didn't happen.  I called my friend and she saw the commercial advertising it, too, so weird that it didn't happen.

    I asked in the other thread but you (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by tigercourse on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:25:16 PM EST
    probably won't see that, do you have a link to that poll, or was it just on the station? Thanks.

    Parent
    I saw it (none / 0) (#8)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:34:50 PM EST
    on television, so I don't have a link.  I checked CNN and they don't have it up yet.  They also list Clinton as still winning the delegate count, so perhaps they're a tad behind?

    I will keep an eye out for it and I hope that you will, too.  Either way, post it or I'll post it and we'll go from there (but I warn you, my job just started back up, so I won't be glued to TL so much, which might make some folks very happy but I will miss you guys!)

    Here's an interesting link from a Minnesotta poll.  Love the comment from the Clinton supporter--she sounds just like my gran.

    Parent

    I saw it too (none / 0) (#16)
    by kenosharick on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:15:25 PM EST
    last night, thought it was a Time poll but I am notsure. She was up by 2 on mccain.

    Parent
    GE Poll (none / 0) (#31)
    by ROK on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:28:00 PM EST
    CNN's poll had both Clinton and Obama beating McCain in the GE, but Obama had an 8 point lead to Hillary's 3 point lead. She didn't bring it up because of the 3-point margin of error and that quoting a single February poll could be seen as a little presumptious.

    Also, I'm thinking that CNN keeps Hillary up in the del count to maintain his underdog image that the Obama camp thrives on.

    Maybe not though...

    Parent

    Hillary ahead on CNN (none / 0) (#33)
    by dwightkschrute on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:53:50 PM EST
    She leads in delegates mainly because CNN is counting superdelegates. And doubt it's a conspiracy because they're numbers are in line with most others.

    Parent
    But... (none / 0) (#41)
    by ROK on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 11:32:03 PM EST
    I'm not convinced that the superdelegates are going to be as free to choose as they thought. Of course, the question is do they go with the popular vote (favors Clinton) or delegate count (Obama)?

    I would hate to let New York and California effectively choose the candidate, but how can they allow the smaller states to have so much swing?

    It's going to be interesting and will hopefully end well.

    Parent

    Popular vote... (none / 0) (#81)
    by mindfulmission on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:45:57 AM EST
    do they go with the popular vote (favors Clinton)
    Last I checked Obama was leading in both the popular vote and the delegate count.  

    Parent
    NOPE (none / 0) (#90)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:13:15 PM EST
    CNN  still showing    Clinton  winning  delegate  count   1148  to  1121.  

    Parent
    ugh... (none / 0) (#101)
    by mindfulmission on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:11:57 PM EST
    ... the CNN totals include super delegates.  We have gone over this before.

    When we are talking about which way the super delegates should go, we probably shouldn't talk about which way some of them have said they are going to go, right?

    Parent

    CNN (none / 0) (#50)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:09:40 AM EST
    CNN   explained  that.  They  are  counting  COMMITTED  superdelegates  by  contacting  each.   If  the  superdelegate is  uncommitted,  they    don't  count  them.    

    By  the  way,  Kerry  and  Kennedy  are  "committed  superdelegates,"  even  thought  their   state  and  delegates  went  to Clinton.  

    I'm  waiting for  their  public  announcement  that  Obama's  policy is  correct,  and  they'll support   Clinton.   (cough, cough)

    Parent

    I don't know (2.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:37:30 PM EST
    that only makes sense if Clinton was "owed" the presidency this year.

    Frankly, there are a lot of people that are "owed" it before either of them would be (Gore comes to mind). And it's decided based on a lot of other things than that anyway.

    I know it's your visceral reaction and I'm not questioning it, but to an Obama supporter, it gets frustrating when people start talking about how she is owed the presidency.

    Parent

    it gets depressing (4.20 / 5) (#12)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:46:16 PM EST
    when you construe every comment I make as a woman as meaning that I think Clinton is "owed" something.  You only serve to prove my point.

    And, honestly, you have shown a pattern-at least to me-of very nasty attempts at sarcasm about race that have left a bad taste in my mouth, so I am going to try not to correspond with you anymore.

    And I say "try" because there is another andreww on here who is very nice, and an Obama supporter, and I constantly mistake you for him until you come out with one of your awful, artless zingers.

    Parent

    I like Democratic Undergroun (none / 0) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:50:50 PM EST
    Because they have an ignore feature.

    Have a very nice evening everyone.  And a pleasant tomorrow ;-).

    Parent

    This is offensive to me (none / 0) (#15)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:58:25 PM EST
    I'm deadly serious about race, and I resent your implication that I'm being sarcastic about it. I worked tirelessly in college on coalitional people of color work and continue to do so today (when I have the chance, am somwhat busier now). I think people are greatly underestimating the incredibly difficult balancing act Obama must do to survive as a person of color in a white man's world. I think Clinton must do the same, and I feel bad for her for it. It's two sides of the same coin - hierarchies of oppression by white men.

    And where have I said anything about your position as a woman?

    Parent

    Entitlements or Victim (none / 0) (#23)
    by Salt on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:45:10 PM EST

    this is the politics of the group grudge the Party cant win with this as a platform and its not a victimless strategy it inflames in a wreckless harmful manner it really needs to stop.

    Parent
    I saw those ads too - that's why I wanted to watch (none / 0) (#3)
    by katiebird on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:23:44 PM EST
    I saw those ads too - that's why I wanted to watch.  I was wondering how it would be handled. I guess by leaving it in the cutting room.

    Parent
    Okay, now I am going to (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:25:34 PM EST
    shout "conspiracy!"  I just talked to my cousin and she saw it mentioned on Entertainment Tonight, so it must be true.

    How very, very odd.  I wonder what happened?

    Parent

    You're not the first person I've seen (none / 0) (#21)
    by halstoon on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:41:57 PM EST
    advance this notion of Obama betraying Clinton. How did he betray her, specifically if she was not owed anything?

    Parent
    According to an article I read (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:25:15 PM EST
    when he arrived in the U.S. Senate he sought her out for advice as to how to handle being a "celebrity" freshman Senator.  She sd. keep a low profile, work hard, be respectful to those who have been here longer than you, etc.  Then he sought out Ted Kennedy and others.  Not a betrayal IMO.  

    Parent
    The worst comments I've seen (none / 0) (#32)
    by halstoon on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:49:08 PM EST
    came right out and said that Durbin sought out a black man to derail Clinton on purpose, as though competing for the nomination in itself is patently unfair, and being black apparently just added to the insult.

    Asking her advice was polite, but why should that make him indebted to her? You're right, hardly a betrayal.

    Parent

    The article (none / 0) (#45)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:54:59 AM EST
    is probably Teacher and Apprentice from Marc Ambinder in The Atlantic.

    Parent
    The Atlantic had a story that advanced (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by LatinoVoter on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:44:49 AM EST
    the notion that he betrayed her. When he needed advice he went to her and the article paints it as them having a student-mentor relationship. The relationship got chilly after he decided he wasn't going to serve his full term and Dick Durbin pushed in to run for Prez now before he racked up votes people could use against him.

    But this isn't the first time he picked the brain of a woman in office and then turned around and tossed her under the bus so he could advance. The Tribune has a story about him titled "Obama knows his way around a Ballot" that details this.

    Parent

    oh gimme a break (none / 0) (#47)
    by Tano on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:31:45 AM EST
    you are saying that once you accept advice from someone, I guess on any matter, then you are forbidden from competing agaisnt them in some subsequent election? This is "tossing someone under the bus"? Are you serious?

    You think that Hillary never got any advice when she got to the Senate from people like Joe Biden or Chris Dodd?

    Parent

    Tano (none / 0) (#51)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:14:08 AM EST
    No,  but  it  sure  does  indicate  how much Obama   ADMIRED  Hillary  Clinton  as  a  mentor,  doesn't  it?  

    Wonder  why  he  chose  Joe  Lieberman   instead?  

    Parent

    He was assigned (none / 0) (#57)
    by andrewwm on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:42:42 AM EST
    All freshman senators are assigned a mentor on arrival in the Senate. Lieberman was his randomly assigned one.

    And at least Obama switched his endorsement from Lieberman to Lamont when Lamont won the primary. The Clintons defended him right to the bitter end.

    Parent

    andrew (none / 0) (#68)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:15:05 AM EST
    Not  true,  andrew.  

    They  are  NOT  assigned.   They  CHOOSE,  and  the mentor  has  to  accept  the  responsibility.  

    Obama  CHOSE  Joe  Lieberman.

    And  your   Lamont  assertion is  incorrect, also.

    Obama  NEVER  campaigned  for  Lamont;  the  Clintons  did.

    In  fact,   the  Clintons  donated  $$$  to Lamont's  campaign;  Obama  didn't.  

    Obama   strictly  avoided  giving  any help  whatsoever  to  Ned  Lamont.  

    Where  DO you  get your  facts?

    Parent

    Obama And Clinton Did Exactly The Same Thing (none / 0) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:50:40 AM EST
    Neither campaigned for him and both donated $5,000 to his campaign from their pact.

    Lamont did ask Obama  to campaign for him after he won the primary but Obama never found the time to do so.

    Parent

    Lamont (none / 0) (#91)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:14:48 PM EST
    Let's  REPEAT  that  last  sentence:

    Lamont   did  ask  Obama  to  campaign for  him  after  he won the primary  but  Obama  never  found  time  to  do  so.  

    Bill    and  Hillary  Clinton  FOUND  TIME  and  DID  SO.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#100)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:11:56 PM EST
    None of three campaigned for Lamont. Not Bill, not Hillary, and not Obama. Only John Edwards made a campaign appearance. Wes Clark did an ad for him.

    Parent
    Google the title of the article that I mentioned (none / 0) (#105)
    by LatinoVoter on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:15:30 PM EST
    and read it. You'll see that Obama suppressed voters and his competition after he befriended the Senator. Obama used the same tactics that white politicians in Chicago have used to suppress black voters and candidates.

    Parent
    suppressed votes? (none / 0) (#112)
    by mindfulmission on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:10:15 PM EST
    how so?  by throwing out names on petitions who were not registered voters in the district?

    sorry... but that is the law.  not voter suppression.

    Parent

    Threw her under the bus??? Wow. (none / 0) (#86)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:57:11 AM EST
    The Hillary crowd is getting way off kilter.

    And they accuse us of being the kool-aid drinkers.

    They can't see how in the world Mother Hillary is possibly losing to a black man, and they are just furious about it.

    I've posited that we're seeing a backlash similar to the one Elizabeth Cady Stanton started when women were left out of the 14th amendment, giving black men the right to vote but not women. Stanton, an abolitionist, then went on a tirade against the black man, but her anger was really at the white men who had betrayed her.

    Anyone else see similar principles at work here?

    Parent

    Under the bus (none / 0) (#92)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:15:58 PM EST
    Get  ready, Halstoon.   The  media  LOVES  John McCain,   and  if   Obama is the nominee,  they'll  throw  Obama  under  the  bus, too.  

    Hide  and watch.

    Parent

    What do you think they'll do to Hillary? (none / 0) (#104)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:11:52 PM EST
    They don't like her NOW. This fall she'll get some questions she really doesn't wanna answer, and you know what I mean.

    Just b/c the Clintons' flaws are known does not make them unuseful or ineffective.

    Obama at least appears to have his ducks in a row. Why should he not have a chance to show his skills? Beating the Clintons is not a small task, and you have to admit, he's pierced their armor pretty good. She was ahead by miles last fall, and now she's on the brink of losing to a newcomer.

    POW vs. Wife of draft dodger. I'm not liking her chances, auntmo.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#99)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:04:29 PM EST
    I think that's a really silly theory.  

    From wikipedia:

    "Eventually, Stanton's oppositional rhetoric took on racial overtones. Arguing on behalf of female suffrage, Stanton posited that women voters of "wealth, education, and refinement" were needed to offset the effect of former slaves and immigrants whose "pauperism, ignorance, and degradation" might negatively affect the American political system. She declared it to be "a serious question whether we had better stand aside and see 'Sambo' walk into the kingdom [of civil rights] first." While her frustration was palpable and perhaps understandable after her long fight for female suffrage, some scholars have argued that Stanton's emphasis on property ownership and education, opposition to black male suffrage, and desire to holdout for universal suffrage fragmented the civil rights movement by pitting African-American men against women and, together with Stanton's emphasis on "educated suffrage," in part established a basis for the literacy requirements that followed in the wake of the passage of the fifteenth amendment."

    Elizabeth Cady Stanton Article

    I don't think the frustration Hillary supporters may feel is in any substantial way like this, and I think you are basically implying Hillary supporters are white supremacists.  Historical circumstances have completely changed.  Get a grip.  

    Parent

    Completely changed? Really? (none / 0) (#103)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:06:26 PM EST
    Look at the whole threw her under a bus line. Look at the he-runs-a-cult line. Look at the Oprah is a traitor line.

    Also, my comments this week have been met with attacks on Obama like he can't win whites.

    Things are not so different, just modern.

    Maybe you should peek out from under your own rock.

    Parent

    I can't (none / 0) (#109)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:06:53 PM EST
    defend every attack on Obama or you.  But I do NOT understand why you think Elizabeth Cady Stanton's virulent racist attacks against black male suffrage are actually like the attacks on Obama that have been made, esp. by Hillary supporters at TalkLeft.  Cady Stanton was angry that the bid for women's suffrage was ignored and attacked black male suffrage on the basis of class and race.  She seems to argue that blacks are inferior, so rich educated white women are needed to balance their votes.  You might say that she used blacks as a scapegoat for the frustrations she felt at the white establishment, I'll give you that.  But she seems also to be trying to say to the white establishment, I'm white like you, smart like you, and they [black men] suck!  

    I don't think Hillary supporters are saying that.  The frustration felt by most of the supporters of Hillary Clinton from what I can understand is a lot more complicated, directed at the media, at male charisma, at his maleness and thus potential inclusion into any 'Boys Club' type thing.  I don't think it's really like what Cady Stanton was saying after the Civil War.  

    Parent

    Cocaine (none / 0) (#82)
    by tek on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:49:09 AM EST
    The D. C. Dinosaurs must have told him not to mention it.

    I'm from IL. When Barack Obama first started talking about running for president, I thought it was kind of a joke. I though he just wanted to get his name out there to maybe get VP. Everyone in IL knows that the Clintons helped Obama get into national politics or he would still be a state senator in IL. Great guy, isn't he? Stabbing Hillary in the back with the help of the other men in D. C.

    I thought it was very weird that Obama would run this time considering that the problems we face require an experienced person and he's plenty young to wait. Then I saw that it was Dick Durbin pushing him to keep Clinton out. I used to get angry when people would say the Democrats are no different from the Rebulicans. Now I think it's true of the core leadership.

    Parent

    Yeah, God forbid the Clintons should be opposed (none / 0) (#87)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:00:29 PM EST
    after all, they did so much for progressivism.

    For all the talk about Obama being a shill for the GOP, it was the Clintons who put the New Democrats in power.

    Why can't people just wait their turn? I mean, haven't we known since 1992 that they both wanted to president?

    Clearly, the Clintons are just being victimized by the right wing conspiracy, and Obama is part of it.

    You guys are so...wrong. You're just wrong.

    Parent

    Fairly standard interviews, nothing revealing. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by halstoon on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:28:09 PM EST
    Obama did stick to his stump, and Hillary did the same. Katie did press her on her thoughts post-loss, but Hillary did a good job of staying positive.

    I really did not hear anything I had not heard before from Kroft and Obama. It was interesting to hear Hillary talk about eating peppers and drinking tea, and how she quit drinking diet soda. At least it was new info for me. Oh, and she did point out that Obama had not been the subject of negative ads; I wonder if she'll introduce him, or spare him and let McCain take it to him if he makes it to the GE.

    Hillary really does so much better in those one-on-one settings. She and Obama have separate skill sets; he's so strong on stage in front of 10,000 people. She's really warm sitting across from a single individual. Good piece for her. He should have addressed more of the substantive questions.

    Still, at the end of the day, I'm sticking with Obama, but voting for Hillary will not be painful by any stretch.

    That was a nice comment. (none / 0) (#11)
    by kangeroo on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:42:58 PM EST
    Thank you, Halstoon.

    Parent
    :o) Welcome! (none / 0) (#22)
    by halstoon on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:43:42 PM EST
    Katie Couric (none / 0) (#48)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:37:46 AM EST
    should not be doing these types of interviews. She's just not up to it. Send her out to do little fluffbunnie stories and let someone like Lesley Stahl or some other woman with enough gravitas to do a substantive interview. Katie Couric is an insult to the viewer and the person being interviewed.

    Parent
    Kroft/Obama (none / 0) (#52)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:16:17 AM EST
    I  thought  Obama  looked  really,  really tired,  and  the   whine/smirk  about the  "Clinton machine"  made  me  think  he  has  NO  IDEA  what's  in store  for him  with  the  rightwing  hate  machine   in   the  ge.  

    Parent
    They both are tired, and if you (none / 0) (#73)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:37:24 AM EST
    think the Clinton investigative team is not as effective as the Right's, then I think you're kidding yourself.

    Plus, let's face it, they badly want her to win. The barrage of attacks will be non-stop, replaying the '90s on permanent loop.

    I don't think Obama will have to face questions about murder, adultery, cover ups, corporatism, etc. like you know she will.

    Parent

    Attacks??? (none / 0) (#96)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:07:05 PM EST
    Oh  good  grief.  Obama  has  faced  NO  negative  ads.   But   if  he  thinks  the  pressure  of  the "Clinton machine" is more  than  he  can   handle,     he  better  buckle  his  seatbelt  for  the  barrage  of   HATRED  from   the  rightwing.  

    Suck it up, Obama.  This  is not little  league,  and  we  need  a  FIGHTER  in  the  general,  not  a   titty baby.

    Parent

    We need a fighter that has a fighting chance. (none / 0) (#106)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:18:29 PM EST
    Sure, they'll attack Obama, but with what? Lack of experience? Unpreparedness? Being black?

    He's already beating someone who throws all that at him.

    Plus, he's beating her without bringing up any of she and Bill's personal life. Just think what the Right will do in the fall, and it becomes clear that he's our best shot.

    Parent

    It's people (none / 0) (#83)
    by tek on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:50:39 AM EST
    like this that upset me. You apparently saw that Obama doesn't have substance and yet you're going to vote for him.

    Parent
    On the contrary, I think Obama is more (none / 0) (#107)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:48:10 PM EST
    substantively correct than Hillary.

    I agree with him over her on the following:

    Mandatory sentencing guidelines
    Needle exchange program funding
    Disarmament
    Banning landmines and cluster bombs
    Cuba
    Iran
    Iraq
    The UN
    Healthcare-does she have a substantive answer to mandate enforcement? Or do you just support her b/c she says she will have them?

    And why is everybody acting like she's the big savior on healthcare? How'd that work for you the first time?

    Transparency-he'll broadcast healthcare negotiations, she says no

    Transparency-he released his tax return. Where's hers?

    Transparency-he was straight up about trying coke and weed as a teen. She won't discuss her time in the White House, refusing to release documents. He also admitted that Rezko house thing was stupid. She accused Bill's female accusers of being part of a conspiracy.

    Don't try to play that game here, b/c it ain't working.


    Parent

    60 Minutes (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by marirebel on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:49:30 PM EST
    Obama was fine, though nothing he said was particularly memorable. (And, recent polls do not support his assertion that he will do better with McCain).  I thought Hillary did well in three areas.  She portrayed herself as determined through ups and downs--an attribute that will bode well in her presidency.  She gently dispelled the characterization that she, rather than Bush, is the "status quo."  Also, she took on the meme (to the extent possible in such a limited interview) that she is nothing more than a shrill woman with a dastardly "political machine" hellbent on achieving the presidency. As she says, her life is blessed, and she will be fine no matter the outcome of the presidential race; if she loses, she will happily still be a Senator.  I have come to see Hillary over the course of this campaign as an enormously gracious person.  And who knew she mentored Obama!  

    an enormously gracious person (none / 0) (#46)
    by cymro on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:59:00 AM EST
    I have seen the same thing. It is a key difference between the two candidates, and one that I think others will pick up on.

    This is a characteristic that some voters may not appreciate, but which I believe some of the "values" voters (which the Obama supposedly wants to attract) will notice, and find attractive.

    I count myself in that voting segment, and I find Hillary's public persona and positions a lot more compatible with my views than Obama's. Not that there's much wrong with his positions, it's just the way he is conducting his campaign that grates. He just needs to grow up a bit.

    Parent

    Agree (none / 0) (#53)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:18:09 AM EST
    Yes,  me  too.   She  IS  more  gracious.  

    Parent
    I thought (none / 0) (#7)
    by NJDem on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:29:41 PM EST
    HRC's habit of eating hot peppers was interesting--not hard-hitting journalism, but did anyone else just not expect that?  I guess it's healthy to sweat it out?

    But yeah, where was the stuff about his past drug use, we can't be the only ones who saw those ads.  Why did they cut it out?  Now I'm really curious what he said!

    I stand corrected (none / 0) (#9)
    by Kathy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:36:56 PM EST
    on the pepper issue.  I thought it was crazy silly, but obviously, it made an impact.  Just goes to show: never trust me on this kind'a crap. (Though I will repeat here that I was right on the GA exit polls.  Yes, I will beat that dead horse until it rises!)

    Parent
    if they wanted hard hitting news (none / 0) (#13)
    by white n az on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:49:58 PM EST
    they certainly aren't going to toss the ball to Katie Couric.

    After it concluded, I tried to figure out what the point was of these interviews and they didn't seem to have a point at all except a soft interview.

    Parent

    Where did his 47% figure come from (none / 0) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:17:55 PM EST
    was it a single poll and from when and by whom?

    CBS's last poll on their website, taken Jan. 30 to Feb. 2, shows Hillary with a 65% approval rating while Obama's was 63%.

    The question: "Is your opinion of Hillary Clinton (Barack Obama) favorable, not favorable, undecided, or haven't you heard enough about Hillary Clinton yet to have an opinion?"

    I have never found that one (none / 0) (#20)
    by Salt on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:38:23 PM EST
    I just know that it also had a question that showed a high level of respect higher than any other candidate..

    Parent
    I found a Feb. 8 CNN poll with (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:56:25 PM EST
    not quite those numbers but close, and showing that either Dem could beat McCain.  Interesting.

    But it says that Obama could beat him by more, because this will be decided by white male voters.

    Why?  Women split more evenly -- maybe we're not as motivated by gender.  We vote more for Clinton, but not by that much more.

    But white guys vote way more for Obama or McCain.
    So even when we get a woman getting this far for the first time, white guys still get to decide it.

    I feel like banging my head against the wall because of that.  I'm tired of banging it against the ceiling.

    Parent

    Is this it? (none / 0) (#27)
    by dwightkschrute on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:12:02 PM EST
    Here's a poll that seems to have numbers close to what was mentioned.

    Parent
    Sorry used Google (none / 0) (#28)
    by dwightkschrute on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:15:56 PM EST
    Didn't realize that the story was on some radical pro-life site. Here's the poll straight from Rasmussen.

    Parent
    No, that's a poll about McCain (none / 0) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:19:02 PM EST
    and Obama's and Hillary's favorability ratings aren't much different.

    Obama said tonight 47% of voters won't vote for Hillary -- it had nothing to do with McCain -- and I'm not finding a poll to support that.

    Parent

    There was a poll taken back before the campaign (5.00 / 0) (#34)
    by RalphB on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:03:00 PM EST
    really started which had some numbers like that for Clinton, and I know Obama has been using that number  for a very long time.  I think it was an outlier anyway but it's just a lie to keep repeating that number when it's been flat wrong for a year.

    That's one of many small things that I dislike about his campaign.  It shows a base level of dishonesty.


    Parent

    Yes, (none / 0) (#84)
    by tek on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:53:26 AM EST
    and haven't we had enough lies from Dubya? If Obama is president, I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed in what they've voted for.

    Parent
    Oh probably the CNN one then (none / 0) (#35)
    by dwightkschrute on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:07:18 PM EST
    A CNN poll* before Super Tuesday said head-to-head Clinton gets 50% and McCain gets 47%. Same poll says head-to-head Obama gets 52% and McCain gets 44%. That's where a 47% of voters number could come from.

    * The numbers are the 4th paragraph or so before the end of articles.

    Parent

    Or these... (none / 0) (#36)
    by dwightkschrute on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:20:37 PM EST
    Zogby has had Clinton as high as 50% asking "Whom would you NEVER vote for for President of the U.S.?"

    CNN had that 47% number for "definitely not vote for Hillary Clinton" in a poll done back in 2006.

    Parent

    That's the one (none / 0) (#37)
    by RalphB on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:27:15 PM EST
    quoting that now is pure BS.


    Parent
    John Trapper (none / 0) (#56)
    by PlayInPeoria on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:40:32 AM EST
    Has a posting on ABC about this.

    Obama: Clinton Divides America

    i don not know how to link ... so if some one can link this it would help.

    The article also has a link to the flyer Obama is sending that hits Bill Clinton.. and links Hillary as the same as her husband. Oh Boy!

    "8 years of the Clintons, major losses for Democrats across the nation," the flier says, enumerating that from November 1992 to November 2000, Democrats lost 12 governorships, 7 Senate seats, and 46 House seats.


    Parent
    To link (none / 0) (#58)
    by andrewwm on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:45:29 AM EST
    you can either hit the chain button right above the text box, or type:

    <a href=[your link here]>name for the link</a>


    Parent

    thanks for explaining (none / 0) (#65)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:59:52 AM EST
    that was an easy to follow description. We are a fixed width site and long urls skew it and I have to delete the entire comment since I can't edit, only delete comments.

    Parent
    No problem (none / 0) (#66)
    by andrewwm on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:02:51 AM EST
    glad to help :)

    Parent
    flyer link (none / 0) (#95)
    by PlayInPeoria on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:31:18 PM EST
    Flyer

    Thanks

    Parent

    Well the answer to that is (none / 0) (#59)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:00:33 AM EST
    that Bill Clinton is the only Democrat to win the White House since Jimmy Carter. And I think Obama is making mistake in attacking Bill Clinton again. He may do well with his little corner of the electorate but those of us that like and respect the Clintons and support Hillary Clinton don't like it and may not be willing to forgive and forget when GE time comes around.

    With Teddy Kennedy in his corner it brings to mind how Teddy the candidate tore into an all ready weakened Jimmy Carter and gave us Ronald Reagan followed by George Bush the 1st.

    In the last 40 years there have been only 12 years with a Democrat in the White House. 4 for Jimmy Carter and 8 for Bill Clinton.

    Parent

    I really don't (none / 0) (#61)
    by PlayInPeoria on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:28:58 AM EST
    think this is a good direction for Sen Obama. He came out of the weekend of top. But, I'm not a pol so I don't know.

    I would think this would actually motivate the Clinton camp.

    Parent

    These (none / 0) (#67)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:12:15 AM EST
    tactics by Obama, when he has tied her hands by accusing the Clintons of racism, is one of many, many reasons why I will never vote for him. I know thats not what activists on this site want to hear, but I am not going to sell out my principles ever.

    Parent
    Independent (none / 0) (#69)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:17:46 AM EST
    I  feel  the  same  way,  Thinker.  

    There  was a  time  I would  have  supported  a  joint  ticket,  but  based on Obama's  tacky   tactics,    it's  GONE.    

    Parent

    I wonder (none / 0) (#60)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:08:51 AM EST
    if people realize how much of this was caused by the unrelenting attacks of the right wing aided and abetted by the MSM. Huge amounts of money wasted trying to 'get the Clintons'. Here we go again with Hillary paying the price for the unfair MSM attacks.  We are going to let the big boys tell us who are President will be.

    And all these attachs by Obama and he thinks women are just going to take it. I sure hope not.

    Parent

    I thought it was bad timing (none / 0) (#18)
    by Tano on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:32:20 PM EST
    to announce the campaign shakeup so that 60min announced it as an added comment to the end of the Hillary interview.

    I thought Hillary did fine, but the interview itself probably didnt serve her well. I tried to view it as an average voter rather than a political junkie, and it seemed nice and pleasant, but what sticks in my mind is the talk of taking vitamins, drinking tea, (i.e fluffy stuff) and generally facing a challanger that is much stronger than she expected. So, to tack onto the end of it a comment about a campaign shakeup (ususally taken as a sign of dissary) gave an overall impression that was not very dynamic or forward leaning.

    Obama did fine too, but I didnt find much of it memorable either way.

    Its been a while since I watched 60min - one impression that I had was feeling grateful that I dont have HD TV. Geez, I wonder what those tight closeups must look like! Even on my junky set, Obama's face looked like the man in the moon!

    Cry Wolf (none / 0) (#19)
    by Salt on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:36:11 PM EST
    look someone needs to interview Thomas Reilly.. of Mass Patrick's competition in 06 another Axelrod hit job  he was also unfairly................accused of Swiftboating Patrick which was also bull   ......................lots of crying wolf in the Axelrod play book ....its already gotten old

    BY MARK BROWN markbrown@suntimes.com wrote this............

    ...Here's the thing: A lot of people want to believe in Barack Obama. Heck, I want to believe in him, and to an extent, I do.

    Obama is different. He does have that quality to inspire.

    But he's not so very different. He plays the political game. He does what he has to do to raise money, without being particularly careful about who is donating it. He makes nice with fellow officeholders when maybe a braver, less ambitious politician would have taken them to task for their failings.

    In short, he's a politician, not a messiah.

    It doesn't strike me as incompatible for a person to believe that -- based on what they know so far -- Obama is their preferred candidate for president, but still admit to themselves that his experience is thin, that this Tony Rezko business needs further investigation, and that if he can't stand the Clinton heat he doesn't belong in the White House kitchen.

    Believe in him, if you will, just spare me the true believers.

    the topic here is 60 minutes interviews (none / 0) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:54:36 PM EST
    please stay on topic.

    Parent
    Obama was on 60 minutes Feb 11, 2007 (none / 0) (#39)
    by ding7777 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 11:02:20 PM EST
    when he admitted cocaine use. Link

    Small first shot (none / 0) (#40)
    by RalphB on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 11:11:35 PM EST
    Well this is a likely avenue of first attack.  Was said about Obama this weekend.

    "I certainly don't know what he believes in. The only foreign policy thing I remember he said was he's going to attack Pakistan and embrace Ahmadinejad."  -  George W Bush

    Another shot (none / 0) (#54)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:23:41 AM EST
    Saw  Juan Williams  on Fox   News  to  Bill Kristol:

    "I think Bill  Kristol  is  being  very  supportive of  Mr. Obama,  but  you  have an agenda.  You  guys think   it's  easy  to   beat  Barak  Obama   going  forward."  

    And   Peggy Noonan,  George Will, and  David  Brooks  have  also  been  very  complimentary  of  Obama.  

    Agendas?  

    Parent

    Columbus Dispatch endorses Clinton (none / 0) (#42)
    by RalphB on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 11:49:10 PM EST
    Im hoping she turns down the MSNBC (none / 0) (#55)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 08:37:59 AM EST
    Russert Sillyballs debate and has a Town Hall or Debate in Columbus instead.

    Parent
    It's a mystery to me ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by cymro on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:36:58 AM EST
    ... how Obama continues to attract as many votes, when Clinton is so much more articulate and has such a better grasp of the issues.

    Yes he can speak well, but the more I hear his speeches, the less real content there seems to be. He sounds like JFK, MLK, or RFK, but without their platforms. I keep wondering -- where's the beef?

    It's people (none / 0) (#88)
    by tek on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:01:53 PM EST
    all the hate-speak circulating about the Clintons and there's no one, NO ONE who's refuting it. The Democratic Party is allowing to stand and Obama fuels it. If the Clintons try to defend or clarify they're accused of negative campaigning or some such thing. Then, Emanuel and Kennedy told Bill Clinton straight out to stop criticizing Barack Obama. How does that look to new voters or Independents? It looks like there must be something wrong with the Clintons or there own party would come to their defense.

    Someone said he/she didn't want the old men in the party deciding who our president is going to be. That's the thing I'm the most angry about.

    Parent

    I Doubt that the faithful changed their minds (none / 0) (#49)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:46:15 AM EST
    I doubt that there is anything Hillary Clinton can say on 60 Minutes or elsewhere that will change minds all ready set to Obama.

    I watched and thought she came across as pleasant, informed and rather Presidential in demeanor. (Although I've never quite understood exactly who would find that enough to get their vote. Anyone can look presidential for 20 minutes.)

    I didn't watch much of the Obama interview because quite frankly I don't like him, won't vote for him and his very voice has begun to grate on me like nails on a blackboard.

    All in all, what I saw of 60 Minutes was 60 Minutes of fluff. Which is what 60 Minutes now does for the most part.

    If your mind is made up... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:35:06 AM EST
    ...nothing will change it.  I'm not fond of either candidate, neither has the nad to do or say anthing REALLY progressive, BUT...partisans on boths sides are just as immovable.  The Obamaniacs and the Clintonistas as equally as nutty in their addictions to the personality of their candidate.  And don't tell me about experience, and Hillary knows how to get things done, knows the limits of a first term -- because all of that is sh*t that is simply setting up people to expect less and to be satisfied with inferior results.  This is not 1992, this is not Bill's first term, the times and the game are different, MUCH different.  Go in with low expecations, chances are you'll meet them, or even fall short.

    The biggest problem they face is that neither of them seems a particularly creative or imaginative person.  And that is what we need more than anything else.  We are mired in the rusty paradigms of the past.  

    Parent

    this is what scares me right now (none / 0) (#62)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:41:37 AM EST
    sorry for the O/T but please this makes so much sense to me...I have been saying it for months...they are afraid of Hillary....

    maybe this link will work (none / 0) (#63)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:43:25 AM EST
    Yes agree and I belive they are right to fear her (none / 0) (#64)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:50:28 AM EST
    and I have absolutely no doubt they would trounce an Obama as nominee, I actually do not even believe it would be competitive they are defining him as nice inspirational but inexperienced young man pat pat but terrorist oh my. Its simple math really, a lot of Voters O is supposedly bringing to the Party actually showed up with Kerry the crowds are new but the voting demographics are not it is the media and campaign Pimping We the People, 12 percent of 2004 were new voters 88 percent went Dem, 18 to 29 age group 54 percent went Dem, Independents 49 percent, Republicans 6, you need to reach 200,000K to have a major gap of voters going republican....30-70. Nothing new here but according to the O campaign and the swooning media its all new uheard of no it isnt.

    Add that the Party has unfairly disenfranchised and marginalized the voices of many voters in Caucus States, Florida and Mich these voters that are Hillary's base this is before you even hit the issue of SDs now being intimidated and threatened and that is exactly what happening.

     Unlike the Obama spin the two candidates are not interchangeable at all, certainly not in substance and Obama is not running as a Democrat but and as an anti Democrat so forget the we are electing a Dem first thats a Progressive battle cry.  My take there is a very strong anti Obama vote out there around 55, percent of the base not getting attention.  This victim as a platform will not work to rally the base later around him its already losing it affect it has already been over played.  Gallup polled and found 55 percent of the party base, mind you, believes Hillary and Bill did not play the race card at all with the SC dust up, that's stunning and that is a problem that's also the non liberal not black base of the Party.  Also looming the fight over divided government vs. one Party Rule as hated as Bush. The Repubican fight on Obama has limited experience and Im sure Osama will call again right after any nominee is announced,the Iraq withdrawal begun and Hillary has creds here, Obama is on record as wanting to talk or invade Pakistan that peels off more voters, if McCain puts his own first on the Republican ticket peel off some more.

    Anyway why waste the energy Hillary will be the nominee and after Nov the DNC needs to be cleaned out and rules revamped.


    Parent

    Race card (none / 0) (#71)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:32:53 AM EST
    A  large part of  that  55%  do not  believe  the  Clintons  played  the  race  card   is probably  because  we  all  watched   the  Tim  Russert  MSNBC  debate.  

    Russert  showed  Obama  4 pages of   his  staff's  comments  whipping  up the  race  card  THEMSELVES   to  gain votes  in   South  Carolina.  

    Obama   admitted   his  staff  had  done it,   apologized  for allowing  it to happen,  and  swore  he  would  not  allow   it  to happen  again.   But  by then, it  had  already  worked in  South  Carolina.  

    Even  Jesse  Jackson  came out  and  said  he didn't  see  anything  "racist" about  what  Clinton had  said.    

    But   Obama  had  used it,  the media   had   amplified  it  unfairly,  and  I'm  DELIGHTED  to    find  that  a majority of  Americans know  better  than to call  either  Clinton  "racist."  

    This  kinda  crap  is  why    I  can no longer    stand  Barak  Obama.  

    This  is  not  "uniting,"  and  it's  not  "new, clean, honest  politics."   He plays  dirty, period.

    Parent

    Talk to some black people (none / 0) (#74)
    by andrewwm on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:40:37 AM EST
    specifically, some black voters. Ask them if you think the race card hasn't been out this race.

    It's awfully easy for us white folks to sit back and say that race hasn't been played when we have no stake in it.

    Parent

    andrew (none / 0) (#75)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:43:05 AM EST
    Go  away,   andrew.     I'm not in the mood  for  your   cr*p  today.  

    We  ALL  heard   Obama  admit  his  staff   used  the  race  card.  

    Those  are  facts you   can't  play  with.    

    Parent

    Can't use the (none / 0) (#76)
    by PlayInPeoria on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:46:04 AM EST
    "ask a AA" to support your theory unless you want to accept the "ask a women" theory for the truth about sexism.

    Give me numbers.

    Parent

    Andrew (none / 0) (#77)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:50:34 AM EST
    wants you to think he  has  a "Black  friend."  

    I  rather  doubt  that  ALL  Blacks  think   the  Clintons  were  racist;   a   whole   lotta  Blacks   laughed  at  Obama   for   making  that  claim.  

    Gimme  a  break.

    Parent

    talk to (none / 0) (#80)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:17:13 AM EST
    John Lewis and Barbara King and ask why, if the cries of racism are true, they are such strong advocates for Clinton.

    Parent
    Thanks for this (none / 0) (#98)
    by andrewwm on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:51:35 PM EST
    I won't apologize for years of progressive work on people of color issues.

    Go read the black blogs in the blogosphere if you want to get a sense of how dead the Clintons are to them. There's a 150 year history of the promising black candidates getting screwed by racist innuendo and stereotyping. They did it to Jesse Jackson, Tom Bradley, and Douglas Wilder. They have seen a pattern developing that as soon as a black candidate looks promising, the dominant white power structures come into gear and cut them down to size.

    Now, in the grand scheme of things, what the Clintons said isn't hardly the worst thing ever said about a black person - the innuendos were fairly mild. But the tactics fit past strategies to a tee. We expect the bad guys (i.e. Republicans) to do that, not people from our own side.

    And that's pretty offensive too, that you think black people just laugh off potentially racist remarks. Just like all good minorities should do.

    Parent

    But by then (none / 0) (#89)
    by tek on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:04:30 PM EST
    it had already worked in SC. That is exactly one of Karl Rove's tricks.

    Parent
    Worked in SC (none / 0) (#93)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:19:06 PM EST
    BINGO.   Obama  got  exactly  what he and his  staff  wanted  from the   false  accusations.

    Parent
    GAUL I love reading (none / 0) (#70)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 10:19:47 AM EST
    your discussions....

    In the morning Hubdate (none / 0) (#79)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:16:02 AM EST
    email, it was claimed that Obama still  has not committed to the debate tonight.  Anyone know if that is true?  Also, they say he is vacillating on other debates and has not formally accepted anything (at least that's how it sounded)

    Anyone know what's going on?  I thought Obama agreed to the VA debate tonight?

    Fear of Hillary (none / 0) (#94)
    by diogenes on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:22:41 PM EST
    People don't understand-it's not that Repubs are afraid that Hillary is a stronger candidate.  It's that they're afraid that if we have to have an elected Democratic president that Hillary will damage the country, based on her tin ear for actual executive decisions (secret panel picking a mess of a Health plan in 1993) and her Nixonian style of covering up mistakes (Whitewater papers "missing", then found in the White House; covering and stonewalling Monica for months until the stained blue dress appeared), and her way of changing her expressed positions with the polls (Iraq war).  

    Diogenes (none / 0) (#97)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:12:27 PM EST
    I  don't  think so,  diogenes.  

    I think   they  believe  Obama  will  be  much  easier    to   attack---and   beat---in  the   general.    

    He  has  NO  military  experience   to  be  Commander in Chief.  

    And  that's  gonna   matter  to    lotta  Americans,   especially   Independents  and   Reagan  Democrats.

    Parent

    hehe... (none / 0) (#102)
    by mindfulmission on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:14:49 PM EST
    ... I forget.  

    Can you refer me to Hillary's military experience?

    Parent

    her service on the armed services committee (none / 0) (#110)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 07:39:49 PM EST
    she is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

    In 2004, Senator Clinton was asked by the Department of Defense to serve as the only Senate member of the Transformation Advisory Group to the Joint Forces Command. She has visited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan; at Fort Drum in New York, home of the 10th Mountain Division; and at Walter Reed Military Hospital to learn first hand the challenges facing American combat forces. She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves.

    ( She also serves on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee; the Environment and Public Works Committee; the Special Committee on Aging; )



    Parent
    sorry.... (none / 0) (#111)
    by mindfulmission on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 09:08:21 PM EST
    ... but sitting on the Senate Armed Forces Committee is not the same as having military experience.

    Actually... it is nothing close to having military experience.

    Parent