What The Howler Said About NBC

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:05:28 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only.

Bob Somerby:

Let’s hope last night is the very last time. Let’s hope the Democratic Party never lets NBC run another debate. In a word, the first half hour of last night’s debate was stunning. To understand why, let’s think back to October 30, when Tim Russert and his trophy wife, Brian Williams, hosted an earlier Dem debate [an all out assault on Clinton.]

. . . Afterwards, pundits lined up to say something baldly inaccurate. We always treat the front-runners this way, a long line of fantasists said. . . . We Dems have a new front-runner now; we thought he was frequently brilliant last night. But the first half hour of last night’s debate was a virtual replay of October 30. Jack Welch’s “Lost Boys” were at it again. They were choosing our nominee for us.

And as Somerby further points out, they will be trying to choose our President; NBC's (Jack Welch's Boys) choice is Saint John McCain. Will the Obama supporters in the blogs be so pleased with NBC then?

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What The Howler Said About NBC | 36 comments (36 topical)

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"Trophy wife" That's good. (5.00 / 6) (#1)
by oculus on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:09:54 PM EST

The most amazing thing to me was watching the same people who "moderated" the debate then proceed to give themselves generous applause in the post-debate analysis. What performer wouldn't like to have the forum to write the review of their own performance?

Oops! Did we just play a Hillary clip? (5.00 / 7) (#2)
by catfish on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:18:19 PM EST

OK the best (or worst) moment was playing the Hillary clip then saying "oops! We meant to play an Obama clip. Well, since we just played the Hillary clip, Obama - care to respond?" Not an exact transcript but still.

Also, the format of the debate was like this:

Debate Begins
Play Hillary clip - Obama, care to respond?
Other questions
---Commerical Break---
Oops played Hillary clip again - Obama, care to respond?
--Commercial Break---
Played Obama clip - Obama, care to respond?

So Obama gets to respond to the Hillary clip and his own clip first. It was blatant.

: That could easily have been (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by andgarden on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:25:25 PM EST

a "worst" moment, except that last night, there were worse ones.

: senator Clinton, Senator Clinton. (5.00 / 4) (#8)
by oculus on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:30:14 PM EST

We must take one or our oh so few, oh so short breaks now. BTW, it is still snowing in Cleveland. Unbelievable.

1st Repubs voting Obama to help McCain (5.00 / 6) (#3)
by john5750 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:23:19 PM EST

Now Pumpkin Head following the SNL script,again.

Hillary has to be a miracle worker to win this.

But, with enough support Tuesday she might do it anyway.

: As I watched the debate, (5.00 / 5) (#6)
by oculus on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:28:30 PM EST

I was thinking much as you did. Such a gracious person to sit there, make her points, and not jump over the table and choke out the "moderators." Her body language during her post-debate handshake with Russert sd. it all. I'll do, but I don't have to like it.

Somerby just made my day. (5.00 / 4) (#4)
by lobary on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:25:06 PM EST

I'm still furious about TPM pushing that sludge from two days ago. I hope Somerby keeps pounding away at Josh Marshall for that unforgivable idiocy. He needs to issue a retraction and apologize to the Clinton campaign. Anyone with a handful of clues knew what Drudge was doing--planting a racist, xenophobic attack story aimed at undermining Obama's chances in the general election and blaming it on Hillary Clinton.

Why are smart guys like Josh Marshall so taken by the stupids?

Because Smart People realize (none / 0) (#7)
by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:29:10 PM EST

They're candidate wouldn't have a prayer without it.

It's pragmatic. And smart people are, above all, pragmatic.


They're candidate? (none / 0) (#11)
by cymro on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:38:50 PM EST

: Yes (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:40:56 PM EST

Obama. Their candidate.

And Bob is right about something else: (5.00 / 3) (#10)
by andgarden on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:33:20 PM EST

It's time to get real about the coming Obama media narrative.

Is it allowable (5.00 / 4) (#12)
by obscure on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:40:01 PM EST

Is it allowable to support Obama and also think that the MSNBC debate stunk to high heaven? Russert and Williams shouldn't be allowed to moderate any more debates.

If you can add Olbermann (5.00 / 3) (#14)
by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:42:05 PM EST

To that list, then I'd say yes, it's possible to support Obama and not cuddle up to MSNBC.


Um (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:44:24 PM EST

It will be required when/if Obama is the nominee. a SMART Obama supporter would start getting their licks in early.


: Then I will (5.00 / 5) (#17)
by obscure on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:53:23 PM EST

I think that this debate, as it was moderated was more ludicrous than useful. I thought that the prior debate where the moderator stepped back and let the candidates engage in some back and forth was much better. I thought that flinging irrelevant "gotcha" questions to both candidates was childish and unhelpful. I don't think a debate should be about Tim Russert showing how clever he is. There were some good exchanges, but over-all I didn't see anything in the debate that really broke through.
I thought Chris Matthews' usual brain-damaged ranting afterwards, congratulating Russert on reeling in Clinton and having her flopping around in the boat on the Iraq vote question was tasteless as usual. I turned off after that and watched the Daily Show.

: many of them are (none / 0) (#23)
by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:23:12 PM EST

has it escaped your notice?
You can start with TPM, and go on from there.

not only is it allowable, (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by Dr Molly on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:56:48 PM EST

it is refreshingly honest and rational!


The Howler is my island of sanity (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by kmblue on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:46:05 PM EST

in a sea of sludge.
And I work in journalism.

The whole media is terrible even the A-list (5.00 / 2) (#19)
by koshembos on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:57:40 PM EST

Where have you gone, Tom Brokaw? (5.00 / 3) (#20)
by kmblue on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:14:45 PM EST

Tom Brokaw said to Chris Matthews weeks ago that the Media should let the voters decide.
(Was it after New Hampshire?)
Unfortunately, Tom is retired, and everyone ignored his wise words.

You were going great.... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:21:11 PM EST

and I even agreed with your post!

Until your last sentence.

Will the Obama supporters in the blogs be so pleased with NBC then?

Obama supporters are not pleased now. Not all Obama supporters are as hypocritcal as you paint them, you know.

Same as it ever was . . .

forgive us, some of us are refugees (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by tree on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:54:04 PM EST

from other blogs where the hypocrisy and down-right nastiness were quite traumatizing. This place is a breath of fresh air, not just because of Jeralyn and the chance to comment on issues and substance, but also because of BTD and other Obama supporters who don't feel they have to mindlessly support their candidate, or denigrate his opponent, no matter what.

But I get what you mean. Sometimes its too easy to fall into false stereotyping.


Some may not be but some surely are (none / 0) (#26)
by RalphB on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:17:23 PM EST

In the open thread today, someone had the outright gall to say that Wilentz's article was wrong about Clinton mentioning Jesse Jackson in SC because Rush Limbaugh predicted it would occur.

So now the Obama camp has not only embraced Drudge as an accurate news source but also the comedian Rush Limbaugh. Just when I think this can't sink any lower, it drops right through the floor.


in every crowd (none / 0) (#27)
by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:49:33 PM EST

there are bad apples. Including Obama and Clinton supporters.

Generalizing from the few bad apples is not generally a good idea.


: Obama's campaign itself (none / 0) (#28)
by RalphB on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:58:16 PM EST

endorsed Drudge about the picture flap. Heh?

Boycotting MSNBC's Advertisers (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by IndyCatherine on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:17:40 PM EST

On one of the threads today someone (Kathy?) suggested that it might be possible to go after MSNBC's advertisers rather than the network in terms of applying pressure (especially in light of the alleged women/Hillary-bashing). I looked for the post, but sorry, I couldn't find it to post it there.

I just came back from my gym where they have MSNBC on one of the TVs (ugh, but captive audience) and I was watching for the advertisers. During a 25 minute period, here are the companies who advertised:
-Schiff (a glucosamine supplement)
-General Electric (think women buy kitchen appliances?)
-Marriott
-Apple (iPHone)
-Campbell's soup
-Procter & Gamble: Actonel (osteoporosis drug: for women only)

Does anyone know of a site where this information could be posted/gathered together? I know this isn't the appropriate site (forgive me), but I thought one of the posters might have a suggestion.

Well, yes. (4.40 / 5) (#9)
by oldpro on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:32:09 PM EST

The media is a problem.

The bigger problem is the audience...the undecideds who do not recognize propaganda when they see it and the Obama folks who think propaganda is just swell so long as it favors their candidate.

Murrow must be turning over in his grave.

Views of Obama supporters (none / 0) (#21)
by David in NY on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:01:36 PM EST

"Will the Obama supporters in the blogs be so pleased with NBC then?"

The Obama supporters in the blogs that I know of have condemned the conduct of this debate by Russert, et al. And they too have not failed to note that NBC is a biased organization. There may be some exceptions that I am not aware of, but most recognize that Senator Clinton, and to a lesser degree, perhaps, Senator Obama, were abused by the NBC crew.

No (none / 0) (#25)
by CognitiveDissonance on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 03:12:07 PM EST

No, they'll be screaming bloody murder and trying to get the rest of us to care. (Those who actually keep reading their rags, that is). I'll be yawning myself.

Hmm (none / 0) (#29)
by chemoelectric on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:10:59 PM EST

Hmm, I must not read these pro-Obama bloggers who think MSNBC did a great job. By that I mean literally what it says, not a denial that there are such bloggers.

It's not exactly clear to me why, when you are down to two candidates, you can't simply have them ask questions of each other, either sitting across a table from each other or standing at podiums, with a moderator standing by, empowered to restore order when necessary, or to suggest a change in topic if the debate comes to an impass.

: Can't do that because then (none / 0) (#30)
by RalphB on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:26:10 PM EST

the voters might actually learn something.

Hey (none / 0) (#32)
by kaleidescope on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:11:08 PM EST

I'm an Obama supporter (or at least I voted for him), but NBC has sucked so bad for years. There's a reason my niece and nephew (ages 6 and 8) shout, "pumpkin head!" every time the sage from Buffalo shuffles onto the screen.

The NBC coverage of HRC is so unfair and misogynistic you really have to be concerned about the women in the lives of people like Mathews, Carlson and Russert.

Perhaps one reason they like George Bush so much is that they have instant affinity for someone who privately refers to his mother as "the nutcracker."

: And women in the life of KO (none / 0) (#34)
by Cream City on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 12:39:08 AM EST

many women, including one who went on the 'Net to tell all -- not that there was much worth talking about, it turns out. I happened to do a quick google search to find out about women in his life, and . . . wow. I'd heard about issues with women for Tweety and others, but it may be an epidemic at MSNBC.

Diaily Howler is a MUST daily read (none / 0) (#33)
by jawbone on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:38:31 PM EST

Rette die Erde (none / 0) (#35)
by Balko on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:50:49 AM EST

Rette die Erde! Was wir tun müssen, damit die Menschheit überlebt? Es brennt. An allen Ecken und Enden unseres Hauses lodern die Flammen. Die Hitze wird unerträglich. Wenn wir überleben wollen, müssen wir raus aus dem Haus. So schnell wie möglich. Es geht um unser Leben und das unserer Kinder. Doch wohin? Wir sind gefangen auf einem Planeten, den wir selbst angezündet haben. Fast acht Milliar .

Todesanzeige (none / 0) (#36)
by Balko on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:52:49 AM EST

Menschen, die man nie vergisst unter www.deinetrauer.de