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Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog II

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:51:12 PM EST
Tags: Democrats Debate, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama (all tags)
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Update: Comments now closed, new post-debate thread is here .

Hillary Obama PA live thread continued.

If you're not by a tv or on the East Coast, you can watch online here.

Our first live thread is here.

I'll be putting up some polls during the debate to see how you think the candidates and questioners are doing. Big Tent's posts will say BTD and mine will be TL.

The live blog stays below the fold so that it can be a bit wider than the front page allows. Just click on the "There's More" button or bookmark the permalink to go directly to it.

If comments hit 200, we'll start a new one.

< Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog (I) | Post-PA Debate Thread: I >

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    Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog II | 238 comments (238 topical)
    Hillary stands firm on Iraq (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:53:25 PM EST
    Good.

    did you see the "ratings"? (none / 0) (#23)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:00 PM EST
    The "positive" meter maxed out when Clinton was answering the Iraq questin. Obama never topped 70. I wonder how high she really went?

    Parent
    She's stressing diplomacy... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:59 PM EST
    ...and multinational talks. Most people support UN-type engagement in the middle east, imo.

    Parent
    I think Hillary or Barack (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:55:28 PM EST
    needs to slip in a comment that the Democratic nominee will not only face attacks from Republicans in the fall but also face them from a biased media.    

    Two conclusions. (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:41 PM EST
    1. Obama's media darling status is over.

    2. Every bit of dirt on him is now open season.

    We have no idea how he will face this new situation because the media deliberatly sat on these stories before today.

    So I'd like to see Iowa revoted, along with an few other places.

    Parent

    Ouch.n/t (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM EST


    Parent
    I can't believe it took 50 minutes (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by s5 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:55:33 PM EST
    to get an actual question.

    Her language is more colloquial (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:56:46 PM EST
    IMHO. Obama is rather stiff and academic. He would do himself a favor to be more warm. Just my feeling thus far.

    I always tend to tune out (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:56 PM EST
    when he's talking. Maybe it's just me.

    Parent
    It's not just you. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:01:34 PM EST
    I stopped being able to listen to Obama a while back because he sounds the same and he says the same thing.

    You are not alone.

    Parent

    Its more than that I keep trying to listen (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Salt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:02 PM EST
    And try to hear what ObamaAcolytes hear and admire and I frankly am left wondering why he is so highly though of, is his ok sure, very frustrating but Imp not bitter.  But I also never could see what anyone same media though was great about George Bush.

    She is hands down cleaning his clock, to me their abilities are not comaprable at least to me.

    Parent

    Rev Jim from Taxi. (none / 0) (#132)
    by Salo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:20 PM EST
    play the tapes.

    Parent
    that's funny (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:53 PM EST


    Parent
    No it's not. (none / 0) (#17)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:42 PM EST
    He is very difficult to listen to in a debate format.

    Parent
    Obama's mannerism (none / 0) (#46)
    by bison on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:10 PM EST
    He is stiff.  He needs to relax.

    I glad they are talking about some issue.


    Parent

    HRC (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:07 PM EST
    did very well on that answer.

    Now Obama is saying "me too."

    She also has the time advantage now :) (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Meter goes up (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:27 PM EST
    for Clinton finally. Great response to her Iraq discussion.

    way up! (none / 0) (#21)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Turning the tables on Gibson... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:39 PM EST
    are those glasses real sir?  Do they really have to sit that low?  Please answer so I can ask you again.

    LOL (none / 0) (#20)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:26 PM EST


    Parent
    She's so smart (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:15 PM EST
    I know I'm biased, but she mops the floor with him when it comes to foreign policy.

    Hillary is very smart (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:16 PM EST
    No apologies need.  You are very correct.

    Parent
    This umbrella idea is interesting (none / 0) (#32)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:06 PM EST
    I haven't heard it before.  Have I just not been listening?

    Parent
    I haven't heard it either (none / 0) (#36)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:59 PM EST
    I'm impressed.

    Parent
    He rambled (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:41 PM EST
    on the attack on Israel. His inexperience is showing. While Clinton nails. Massive retaliation. Diplomatic engagement. Awesome. Won't meet with Iranian President but would have a diplomatic process.

    She gets it n/t (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:36 PM EST


    Iran (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:37 PM EST
    Clinton outmetered Obama on Iran by far....

    I like her strength and so did the meter!

    audIcity! (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:51 PM EST
    lol
    it's actually a great line but McCain bungled it

    I know. He's a dumbo. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:35 PM EST


    Parent
    is out-toughing Obama good politics? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:04:59 PM EST
    I think it is in PA and the other primary states.

    Yes, that's why (none / 0) (#45)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:06:06 PM EST
    she can beat McCain and Obama can't.

    She is tougher and more experienced.

    Parent

    She is such a policy geek (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:06:05 PM EST
    that's why I want her to be my President.

    me too (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:36 PM EST


    Parent
    strong on policy (none / 0) (#138)
    by noholib on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:38 PM EST
    She is so impressive when laying out issues and policies.  What power of analysis and expression.  Boy, can she think through a problem and articulate well-rounded complex solutions.  So very impressive!

    Parent
    inspiring (none / 0) (#141)
    by noholib on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:25:22 PM EST
    In my last comment, I meant to write "inspiring" in the last sentence, not "impressive" twice.

    Parent
    We are the tax cutters now. Out Republican the (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:22 PM EST
    Republicans. They'll live to regret this.

    Not that I want new taxes but you don't promise. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:45 PM EST


    Parent
    How's Obama going to cut (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:16 PM EST
    payroll taxes when social security is in "crisis"?  Not to mention he proposed to raise the cap on FICA.  Duh  :-)

    Oh please. (none / 0) (#58)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:09:20 PM EST
    I just don't think he knows what he's talking about.

    Parent
    Alternative Minimum Tax (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:09:08 PM EST
    Should be eliminated or grossly adjusted. It is a tax on the middle class, not the rich.

    Raise the cap (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:09 PM EST


    Parent
    Bigtime (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:19 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:11 PM EST


    Parent
    So glad to not face that this year (none / 0) (#185)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:51 PM EST
    Last year, owing to changes in my spouse's pension, we had to take a second mortgage to pay the alternative minimum tax hits.

    You bet it hits the middle class -- and hard.  Now we're having to pay interest on having to pay it.

    Parent

    Obama looks like a deer in the (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:55 PM EST
    headlights on these tax questions - am not sure he gets it in the same way she does, which is why he has to resort to bumper-sticker speak.

    This topic has a high stammer-factor for him.  It's telling.

    Obama starts to make sense to me and then.... (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:07 PM EST
    ...he rambles.

    Brag about those Clinton years! Bout time. (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:28 PM EST


    Yessss, finally, take it to his comments equating (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:28 PM EST
    the Bushes and Clinton I.

    Parent
    I LOVE how she is hammering Bush! (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:17 PM EST
    Go Hillary!

    Hillary is killing (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:28 PM EST
    him now. Notice her confidence. She sounds assured, thoughtful.

    Hillary's shoutout to EGR! (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:34 PM EST


    Can anyone watching this objectively (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:47 PM EST
    actually think he would be a better president than she would?  I just don't see how.

    I keep hoping he shows me something (none / 0) (#91)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:53 PM EST
    close to equal in case he gets the nom  {sigh}

    Parent
    I know there are good things about him (none / 0) (#134)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:36 PM EST
    maybe he is better for the more distant  future, bringing in youth, etc. so I can understand supporting him.  But on sheer 'fit to be president' grounds, there is just no question.

    Parent
    It just amazes me (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:05 PM EST
    how she can reel off figures.  She's like a human computer!  

    I will be so sad if she is not our next President.

    Omg... (5.00 / 5) (#89)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:37 PM EST
    her answers on the economy, job growth, and the housing crisis are fantastic.  She and Bill really do share that weird power to captivate when it comes to the economy.  Someone made a comment here, maybe Kathy, a while ago, on how horrid the State of the Union address would be under McCain ("my friends, my friends...").  I relish the prospect of one by Hillary!

    This is a good showing of the major difference (5.00 / 6) (#90)
    by Salt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:45 PM EST
    between the two, Hillary identifes the issue takes a jab and give a speicfic how she will work on it action, Obama identifes the issue makes an emotional blame bad and then says he will change it, Im a how person.

    Stop it Obama, on SS. Just shut up (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:55 PM EST


    Obama is just defensive on this (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:21 PM EST


    Did Obama forget his six shooter? (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM EST
    He can't go wonk hunting without it, can he?

    Excellent answer (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:51 PM EST
    we need to look at the revenue before we do anything. As a Wall Street guy, that's the answer I want to hear. Paul Krugman is in heaven with Clinton's remark. So are fiscal conservatives.

    Obama is lost again on the taxes question.

    Look at Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:54 PM EST
    She knows he is hanging himself.  Even the TPM boys will boo this.

    I know! (none / 0) (#105)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:42 PM EST
    Did you see that expression on her face?  

    Parent
    She had that "I'm gonna spank you" (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:34 PM EST
    Mommy look.

    Parent
    Here comes the SS crisis via Obama (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:58 PM EST
    Ugh.

    WIll the person who kidnapped (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:26 PM EST
    Josh Marshall say something about this?

    Parent
    Probably not but (none / 0) (#135)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:04 PM EST
    I can't wait to read Krugman's next column.  

    Parent
    Depends on Where you Live (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:28 PM EST
    On coasts you might make more 100K and not really have that much.

    Shut up about SS -- she should cream him on it.

    Not Social Security! (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    Puh lease!

    Uh--he's going to the SocSec in trouble Repub (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:15 PM EST
    talking point?

    Why, yes, he is!

    Get to your point, dammit! His longwindedness makes me tired!

    Economy (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:33 PM EST
    She is getting huge meter feedback for the economy.

    Q: Why raise the rate at all?  Obama is mumbling about people made money, he is not answering the question and the meter is going up.... answer the question... housing crisis, the meter goes back up.  Apparently dodging questions is wonderful. sigh.

    Clinton's 5 mill jobs and infrastructure going over big too.  Ooh she scored on the payroll tax against Obama.

    Obama tanked when he went after Clinton for Ohio.
    Clinton up on Clinton Admin.  woohoo

    See? Quit attacking the Clinton admin Obama. (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:09 PM EST


    Parent
    I can't see it either (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:33 PM EST


    Parent
    sorry if you've already answered (none / 0) (#122)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:23 PM EST
    but where are you getting the meter reading?

    Parent
    here (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:14 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Thank you! (none / 0) (#133)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:29 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    "Save Social Security" sez Obama (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:25 PM EST
    I could be snide and say "no wonder Ben Nelson endorsed him."

    OHHHHH (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:45 PM EST
    she owns the P word!  She just said PROGRESSIVE!  And she was RIGHT!!!

    tomorrow the blogs will be loads of laughs.  That's my prediction.

    Why does he do this SocSec thing??? (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:48 PM EST
    It's not in freakin' trouble--does he say this bcz his younger followers believe they won't see any SocSec when they retire? Bcz they've been told that by Repubs for their entire lives!

    Yes, it's a sop to the youth vote (none / 0) (#192)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:29 PM EST
    and at my age, closer to McCain's -- it's a reason for older voters to vote for him over Obama.  It could hurt us a lot if he's the nominee, and I just don't think that the youth vote is worth it for the Dems in the long run, losing older voters in the short run.

    Parent
    Ooooooo (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:05 PM EST
    is it just me, or did Obama do badly in that last bit before the break.
    Somebody enlighten me?

    I am listening to it on (none / 0) (#130)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:51 PM EST
    the web so I can't see them but he sounds awful. Just lost and rambling. Especially on the economy.

    Parent
    That was like the NY Giants (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:21:28 PM EST
    playing a Pop Warner football team. It is not fair. She's so much more prepared than he is. He got lost on Iran & Israel and she ran circles around him on the economy.

    There is only one candidate (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:21:41 PM EST
    that has demonstrated a command of the issues.

    He really lost it on (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:22:02 PM EST
    that last answer. She took him to school on the economy and SS.

    The meters showed the undecideds firmly with her.

    I am almost (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:35 PM EST
    blubbering with pride at her grasp of issues. And the fact that I feel reduced to blubbering because there is a such smart woman running for POTUS makes me want to blubber more.

    pride (none / 0) (#187)
    by noholib on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:12 PM EST
    She is so smart ... why aren't more women standing tall--or call it "blubbering" if you must--with pride, yes even with overweening pride?

    Parent
    I would be happy to (none / 0) (#230)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:49 PM EST
    have a discussion about it next open thread. As it is I live in fear of the OT hammer from Jeralyn or a "clownish" label from BTD. Heh.

    Parent
    Hmm, Obama thinks there's (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM EST
    an individual right to bear arms.

    I know Jeralyn agrees with that, but I sure don't.

    Hasnt that been disputed, about his handwriting? (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:59 PM EST


    Obama is lying about the questionnaire (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:02 PM EST


    Yes, I count three lies so far (none / 0) (#221)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:43:41 PM EST
    and I haven't been able to watch that closely:  Clinton's former pastor (nope, her former church, under the previous pastor), his relationship with Ayers, and now his handwriting on the questionnaire.

    Parent
    Gun control question--have you changed position, t (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:06 PM EST
    to Hillary.

    Hillary talking about Mayor Nutter and Phillie gun violence. As prez she would be good partner for cities like Phillie (cops program, get assault weapons ban back--police being outgunned by the bad guys, give police access to info on gun sales to track illegal guns)--can balance. Respects rights of lawful gun owners, most lawful gun owners want guns out of the wrong hands.  Commonsense approach, right balance.

    To BO--DC ban on handguns in DC. Hasn't looked at briefs, evidence. General impression, 2nd gives individual right. Thinks localities have right to regulate.  So, he's in the indie approach, not the well-regulated militia.  

    Has never favored ban on handguns--saying writing on form wasn't his.  I thought copy had turned up with his writing???

    it was just an affidavit (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:08 PM EST
    who's paying attention?
    /snark

    He just lied (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:21 PM EST
    He hand writing WAS on that thing.

    Hillary is just much better at answering (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:31:24 PM EST
    these questions.

    I love what she's saying about Bush administration division.

    I Dunno (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:33:23 PM EST
    About the individual right to bear arms, unless you have a militia.

    State rights spoken (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:33:46 PM EST
    by liberals, Hillary has a better position than Republicans, I'm astounded.

    Hillary has astounded me several times (none / 0) (#207)
    by RalphB on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:41:13 PM EST
    during this campaign and it's never been in a bad way.  She's just the best policy person in the race, on either side.

    Parent
    Wonky Chick for Pres '08!!!! ;) (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:44:04 PM EST


    Parent
    She's impressive (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:47:25 PM EST
    and has left me no longer undecided

    Parent
    I liked her last answer (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:16 PM EST
    on guns very much.

    KO's Worst Person in the World? ABC. (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:48 PM EST
    He will go apesh*t tonight.

    Keith O might say: (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:14 PM EST
    " How DARE that woman talk issues?! She is the Worst Person in the Wooooorlddd. " <cue massive eyebrow furrowing>

    Parent
    The media is doing it's job.. Surprise! (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by BostonIndependent on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:04 PM EST
    Overall, I find this debate about the best of the ones I've watched thus far.. Charlie and George are actually doing their jobs quite well. Hillary is winning by quite a margin IMO, but the rest of the media will speak tomorrow and declare Obama the winner hands down -- LOL!!

    Hillary is just so good (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:54 PM EST
    on education funding.

    Edu affirmative action (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:18 PM EST
    Obama flat at a low level on affirmative discussion.  Clinton spiked on disadvantaged etc.  woohoo!  Invest in our young people!

    I love her approach... (none / 0) (#199)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:25 PM EST
    ...about expanding education and pre-K opportunities.

    Parent
    I bet Obama (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:37 PM EST
    misses Russert and Williams.

    Approval meter hits 100% for HRC on gas prices (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by cymro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:03 PM EST


    NYC hit 4 bucks today (none / 0) (#218)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:54 PM EST
    was on the news, but I missed the story, just heard the lead in. I don't drive, but it tends to effect the rest of my life . . .

    Obama voted for the Cheney Energy bill.

    Parent

    HOW CAN ANYBODY... (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:03 PM EST
    NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR THIS WOMAN!!! (sorry for shouting)

    If I was a drinker... (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by reynwrap582 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:20 PM EST
    I'd make a game out of taking a shot every time she maxed out the graph, and I'd be ridiculously drunk by now...

    Obama's response is falling pretty flat on gas compared to hers.

    "health care policy--nothing gets done" (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:58 PM EST
    Such ridiculous revisionist anti-dem talking points.  What about SCHIP?  What about the strong movement and push for universal care?

    The meter (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:00 PM EST
    of undecideds is not Obama's friend tonight.

    I really hope they stream... (none / 0) (#216)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:33 PM EST
    ....the followup with the focus group after the debate ends.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:03 PM EST
    what is with Obama's insistence on hating on all government from the past 30 years, regardless of party (wait, I'm sorry Republicans had the 'ideas')?  He brings it up all the time.  It's simply undeniable that he refuses to create a long term Dem narrative.  Nothing about him annoys me more.  

    Its a Catch-22 for him, I guess (none / 0) (#229)
    by cymro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:36 PM EST
    He can't invoke Dem history without praising Bill Clinton (oops, my opponent) or Carter (oops, not widely viewed as a success in office).

    Parent
    He could do it so differently. (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:51:03 PM EST
    He kneecaps other Dems all the time.  I just do not understand what makes him do it.  It is systematic.  I mean, harking back to GHWB????  The Republican incumbent we whooped, ushering in BC?  That's who you want to idolize?  Give me a break.  Does anyone care about GHWB or think he's plugged in?  Such a joke and it's obvious he doesn't care if we disagree with him on this issue.  It upsets me he's still doing this so late in the game.  

    Parent
    not with a Clinton in the middle (none / 0) (#232)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST


    Parent
    Gas Prices (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:59 PM EST
    The meter be lovin Clinton on gas prices.  She is off the chart manipulation, windfall profits and highway trust fund.!!!

    Obama's discussion spotty.  Kept flattening out.  Not nearly the response Clinton got.

    Wow BHO, end it with praising Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:06 PM EST
    that is certainly a unique approach to a Democratic primary debate.  Slam Bill.

    Oh Idiot on Foreign Policy (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:12 PM EST
    Don't praise Republicans on foreign policy now. It feeds lie that dems can't do foreign policy

    She is so enthusiastic talking about her proposals (5.00 / 2) (#214)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:13 PM EST
    I love hearing her tonight--he seems a bit down.

    Ah, on affirmative action-she's taking the "fairness' approach, for everyone who needs it.

    Try to create the conditions to allow everyone to live up to their potential. Healthcare!! Whoohooooo!

    Damn-she's tying the package together!

    Now-gas prices. Told truckers gas pricing must be investigated and Bush will not use the tools government has. Are some traders manipulating the market?

    WINDFALL PROFITS TAX!! Yessssss!!!

    Bush but not Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#215)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:18 PM EST
    His game does not play anymore

    Oh dear (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:52 PM EST
    did Obama have to praise Poppy
    and bring up good ideas from Repubs again?
    Why oh Why?

    Obama just can't say (5.00 / 3) (#219)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:59 PM EST
    anything nice about Bill Clinton and so he praises GHW Bush. Of course, he were to commend Carter right now he would lose the Jewish vote.

    How To Utilize Bush (5.00 / 2) (#220)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:43:03 PM EST
    That is hilarious. The obvious answer to to put him in jail.

    Yes--that was my reaction! (none / 0) (#227)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:08 PM EST
    Hillary's expression was priceless.

    Parent
    she should've said... (none / 0) (#233)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    ...picking up litter on highways. ;-p

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#245)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:52:44 PM EST
    That is way too good for him, besides that is one of his favorite things to do. He loves to clear brush.

    Parent
    I wish they had said they would (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:43:47 PM EST
    use Bush for clearing brush in their yards.  Of course Obama would have had to say Rezko's yard.

    Hillary has won the debate (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:44:11 PM EST
    so far.
    Love Her (5.00 / 2) (#228)
    by chrisvee on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:12 PM EST
    No astute observations from me tonight; just some cheerleading.

    Whenever I see one of these debates, I'm just overwhelmed with her competence, the breadth of her knowledge, and how she approaches policy issues.  I find myself sitting on the edge of my seat saying, 'Yes -- that's exactly what I want in a President -- a practical thinker.'  I'm amazed that she doesn't already have this thing locked up. Just goes to show what I know. :-)

    Obama Praises Bush Sr. on Iraq? (5.00 / 2) (#235)
    by whatthelleft on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:48:55 PM EST
    The guy didn't even get Saddam which is why his son got us into the entire mess with Iraq to begin with!

    The guy can't praise Bill Clinton because he's so irked at Hillary? Say again how this guy claims he can bring Repubs and Dems together when he can't even reach within his own party to Bill out of spite to his wife?

    What a joke. And to continue to make it sound like repubs are better on foreign policy by praising Bush Sr. -what a joke.

    The difference (5.00 / 2) (#236)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:50:27 PM EST
    Hillary: I'll fight for you.

    Obama: Unity shtick.

    True but its what he does best.... (none / 0) (#243)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:52:08 PM EST
    ...and it gives MSNBC the opportunity to say he won it based on his closing remarks. LOL.

    Parent
    amazing rhetoric (5.00 / 2) (#240)
    by boredmpa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:51:28 PM EST
    but seems transparent.  does he think people forgot the clinton years? SCHIP? Her attempt for universal healthcare? Gore's work for better energy efficient cars?

    Half his base was 12 when Clinton left office (5.00 / 2) (#247)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:54:03 PM EST


    Parent
    Her energy is just so much higher than his! (5.00 / 2) (#241)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:51:32 PM EST
    She's really ON tonight.

    He seems flat. Whassup?

    Why must he always (5.00 / 3) (#242)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:52:01 PM EST
    use negative predicates when speaking of our country, it's not necessary

    I almost hate to see her do so well (5.00 / 2) (#244)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:52:44 PM EST
    because i will be that much more disappointed if she does not win.

    Hillary won the 'meter' poll (5.00 / 1) (#246)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:52:56 PM EST
    on the last question.

    That's all Tapper has to say about it? (5.00 / 1) (#249)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:56:36 PM EST
    what a tool.

    My Advice he needs to put on his Big Boy Panties (5.00 / 1) (#251)
    by Salt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:53:53 PM EST
    That is just hysterical KOS has no high ground to take here, he has as much cred as KO or Russert Matthew Rush or Josh. I'm sure they feel violated and that Obama was exploited unfairly, RIGHT, well they has done much worse to Senator Clinton he and Josh need to put on their big boy panties now and suck it up.

    Yes (3.66 / 3) (#145)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:10 PM EST
    Bring back the Assault Weapons Ban! I love this woman.

    Good answer by Hillary (none / 0) (#3)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:55:11 PM EST
    is this the first substantive question they've asked the candidates?

    Tabloid Debate (none / 0) (#63)
    by bison on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:35 PM EST
    I agree that this started ou as a tabloid debate

    Parent
    Clark looked pleased. (none / 0) (#6)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:55:51 PM EST


    Obama understands the job (none / 0) (#11)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:58:27 PM EST
    CinC

    He's relieved to be talking about Iraq. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:11 PM EST
    Don't blame him.

    I Hope (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:27 PM EST
    If Iraq withdrawal actuates, then I hope the promised shift to Afghanistan doesn't turn into another nightmare.  I wish that they would drop the whole concept of the WOT because in essence it is perpetual war.

    Obama stumbles (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:06 PM EST
    if I heard him correctly, he said that we have to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of Iraqis. . .

    With iraq (none / 0) (#19)
    by jcsf on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:26 PM EST
    Finally a real issue.

    What the heck is it, with all the gotcha issues?

    What meter? Where? (none / 0) (#26)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:58 PM EST
    Where is that being shown?

    A streaming video (none / 0) (#49)
    by standingup on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:31 PM EST
    that you can pick up here

    Parent
    I wish he would be more specific (none / 0) (#27)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:14 PM EST
    about what exactly he would use as his carrots and sticks.

    A security agreement (none / 0) (#28)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:03:18 PM EST
    with diplomacy to deal with Iran?

    That sounds so...reasonable, HRC. Don't you want to just bomb bomb bomb them?

    Outtoughed (none / 0) (#38)
    by DaveOinSF on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:09 PM EST
    Not tough enough, in my opinion. She should have hammered Obama for criticizing Carter for meeting with Hamas while at the same time saying he'll meet with Ahmadinejad.

    Obama recently said... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:41 PM EST
    ...he might not let the Bush taxes expire if the economy is still weak. Looking forward to his answer about this.

    I know it's still the primary BTD (none / 0) (#42)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:56 PM EST
    but those answers play well to swing voters, they resonate grit.

    I agree (none / 0) (#47)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:20 PM EST
    That was a very good Florida answer.

    Parent
    Iran Is Party (none / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:05:59 PM EST
    To the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. They are allowed to produce their own nuclear energy for peace. If they do manage to acquire the bomb I doubt it would amount to any thing mote than a deterrent. No big deal, imo, considering the alleged nuclear arsenal of their neighbor Israel.

    Pain trickles up? (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:07:54 PM EST
    Since when?

    Is Hillary giving a bit of an Iran seminar? (none / 0) (#51)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:00 PM EST
    She does sound much better prepared.

    Ah, economy.

    McCain saying taxes main issue in general election, that both Dems will raise taxes on everyone.

    Hillary answering first. "If you go to my website, HillaryClinton.com, to see details."

    Obama will cut middle class taxes--offset payroll tax for those $75K or less.

    Now he's off into the verbal weeds, doing his walkabout.  Will get to point pretty soon....

    A little hawkest (none / 0) (#56)
    by bison on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:08:55 PM EST
    I wouldn't go that far.

    the hedge fund managers (none / 0) (#59)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:09:55 PM EST
    might be a good entry into this.

    It was a shocking article in WSJ

    Gibson just lied through his teeth. (none / 0) (#60)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:06 PM EST
    Tax cuts do NOT INCREASE REVENUES. Even Dumbya knows that!

    Short term, yes. (none / 0) (#78)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:26 PM EST
    Long term, no.

    Parent
    Not necessarily at all. (none / 0) (#85)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:14:11 PM EST


    Parent
    I like the credit card form the bank of China line (none / 0) (#65)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10:58 PM EST
    Nice touch

    that was good (none / 0) (#72)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:10 PM EST
    she had a great line today about the Rs digging a hole to China ....

    Parent
    I liked that too. :-) (none / 0) (#73)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:12:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Uh Uh Uh (none / 0) (#67)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:19 PM EST


    Charlie wants not to be taxed (none / 0) (#68)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:33 PM EST
    on his stock market profits. Poor Charlie.

    Ramble Ramble (none / 0) (#69)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:45 PM EST
    hedge funds evil ranmble maybe ramble change business ramble.

    He needs to have his ducks in a row (none / 0) (#70)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:53 PM EST
    to tell Charlie Gibson he is full of it on the capital gains tax cuts.  Maybe hillary will do it.

    He is lost (none / 0) (#71)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:11:55 PM EST
    on capital gains taxes. It might happen or it might not?

    Capital Gains Tax (none / 0) (#81)
    by themomcat on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:42 PM EST
    is not something that the average American making $58k/yr worries about.

    It is, if some (none / 0) (#87)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:15:15 PM EST
    of your work relies on investors

    Parent
    And how many (none / 0) (#114)
    by themomcat on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:27 PM EST
    Americans do that? Most Americans wage earners do not know what capital gains taxes are until they sell their first house. And even then it becomes a non-issue because most of their profits go into the new house.

    Parent
    Most self employed (none / 0) (#131)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23:12 PM EST
    construction workers are well aware of capital gains taxes, and the role they play in our industry.

    Parent
    Housing market tanked 3yrs ago (none / 0) (#83)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:13:49 PM EST
    in Cincinnati

    BTD, lol. Speaking for you only??? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:14:06 PM EST


    Obama just slammed her (none / 0) (#96)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:16:53 PM EST
    on something she said privately to someone on the campaign trail.

    He's doing terribly on this issue.

    Good job by Charlie (none / 0) (#99)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:14 PM EST
    challenging Obama, who is coming off fairly lame.

    Oh, boy - here we go with the Social (none / 0) (#102)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    Security issue.

    I think he knows his positions, but I'm not sure he understands well enough to explain them when they are not set out like a power-point presentation.

    That's one of Clinton's strengths - you can start in the middle of an issue, and she can still get it.

    Both Blew It (none / 0) (#104)
    by Dave Latchaw on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:17:40 PM EST
    Both wrong on capital gains. Gibson is full of it.

    Clinton is polling great! (none / 0) (#108)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:16 PM EST


    Close But Not Good Enough (none / 0) (#109)
    by cdalygo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:18 PM EST
    GO after Obama as well as Bush

    I like the fact (none / 0) (#111)
    by Josmt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:18:44 PM EST
    that she keeps hammering how Bush have damage the economy.

    Did he just call her a liar? (none / 0) (#116)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:19:43 PM EST
    What is this about her saying something she thougth was off camera? Did I miss something? She has been pretty easy on Obama, but he has been sniping at her (the minister, this accusation).

    That Iowa thing about SocSec--I believe there were (none / 0) (#124)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:20:44 PM EST
    explanations--anyone have a link?

    Could we talk about the (none / 0) (#139)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:24:51 PM EST
    Constitution please? Beyond guns?

    Obama's "I don't take oil money" ad just (none / 0) (#140)
    by angie on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:25:19 PM EST
    ran here in NC -- shouldn't it be illegal for him to run such a deceptive ad?

    I hate (none / 0) (#143)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:26:37 PM EST
    the way he looks at her.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#144)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:09 PM EST
    I just saw a post about this on a blog today.  

    If she reinstates the AWB... (none / 0) (#146)
    by reynwrap582 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:22 PM EST
    We're gonna lose a lot of dems in the next midterms...  I was hoping the AWB is something she would try to avoid pushing.

    Obama looking mad again (none / 0) (#147)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:27:45 PM EST
    look out when he answers
    I sense an attack coming

    He is mad (none / 0) (#153)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:30 PM EST
    He's having a bad night

    Parent
    She got a HUGE (none / 0) (#151)
    by americanincanada on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:28:55 PM EST
    response from the undecideds on the meter.

    HUGE

    eminent domain (none / 0) (#152)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:05 PM EST
    not the place to go, dude

    He is a constitutual lawyer and hasnt read all (none / 0) (#155)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:50 PM EST
    the briefs on the 2nd amendament? Did I hear that right?

    No--current case before SCOTUS. (none / 0) (#173)
    by jawbone on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:32:54 PM EST
    Recently argued.  

    Hillary supports sensible regulation with balance of rights for individual...????

    Still favor licensing and regulation? She favors what works in NY--rules in NYC are not the same as Upstate. Hhhmmmm. They work, and that's what she favored during her run for the Senate.

    Parent

    Thank you. my (none / 0) (#177)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:02 PM EST
    connection hiccuped.

    Parent
    Oooh! the questionnaire! (none / 0) (#156)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:52 PM EST


    What do J & BTD disagree about ? (none / 0) (#157)
    by SarahinCA on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:53 PM EST
    Why would you tangle?  There is NO individual right to bear arms in the 2nd!

    You are right (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:31:23 PM EST


    Parent
    I think he's annoyed with himself (none / 0) (#162)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:18 PM EST
    over how the tax segment went

    Thanks BTD (none / 0) (#165)
    by MichaelGale on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:30:37 PM EST
    on second amendment rights!

    He's waffling and dodging on this... (none / 0) (#166)
    by Dawn Davenport on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:31:01 PM EST
    ...and the focus group isn't responding well.

    Does Chicago still have its handgun ban?

    I must say I just peaked at Josh too and he's (none / 0) (#167)
    by gish720 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:31:12 PM EST
    absolutely right Charlie Gibson was spouting right wing talking points in regard to the taxes being cut and then revenue goes up...that's pure nonsense.

    He got called on (none / 0) (#168)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:31:14 PM EST
    the questionaire with his notes on it. Good for Charlie.

    Obama is still stammering at times.

    I'm with BTD on the 2nd Amend (none / 0) (#171)
    by angie on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:32:17 PM EST
    no individual right -- no matter what the USSC says.

    I think Obama (none / 0) (#172)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:32:32 PM EST
    is more likely to lose those gun-loving Dems (or the Dem-curious).  In the way he presents the issue, he doesn't seem to get the connection between my gun-my right-our Constitution.  He avoids connecting with that absolutism.  You've got to be able to connect with it (as a pol) if not agree with IMO.  

    I'm wondering if some horrid question about homosexuality is coming.  Where do they get this crap?  Some Repub potluck?

    I was hope in she would invoke Annie Oakley (none / 0) (#248)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:54:07 PM EST
    as understanding the difference between guns for sport, sharpshooting, vs. guns on the streets.

    If Clinton had mentioned Annie Oakley, I wanted the camera on Obama's face. . . .

    Parent

    fwiw... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Turkana on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:33:14 PM EST
    i'm with btd on no individual right, but jack balkin makes a compelling case that the living constitution may have allowed one to develop.

    Who would have thought (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:09 PM EST
    ten years ago that the Democratic frontrunner would say that there is an individual right?

    Parent
    amazing, the center moved (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by phillhrrll on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:37 PM EST
    to the right on guns.

    Parent
    smart politics (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by Turkana on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:39:40 PM EST
    terrible policy.

    Parent
    Gotcha not working (none / 0) (#178)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:04 PM EST
    they are trying to get Clinton and it didn't work.  Ouch on Obama for not answering the question.

    The NY rules have worked (none / 0) (#181)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:34:55 PM EST
    Homocides down 20%

    http://www.gangresearch.net/Globalization/guggenheim/gugpage.html

    His answer doesn't makes sense on this.... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:35:51 PM EST
    ...I think a far better answer is that diversity is important and schools can looks at gender, socioeconomic, and ethnicity to create diversity.

    He's not even likeable tonight (none / 0) (#191)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:27 PM EST
    Where's the charm?

    He borrowed out (none / 0) (#203)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:01 PM EST
    the "charming" script writer to the Missus for her appearance on Colbert.

    Parent
    I was wondering about that (none / 0) (#226)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:45:08 PM EST
    Obama has never thrilled me, but he seems very hostile and defensive tonight (normally, he just sounds pompous). Where is this legendary speaking skill? Is he only inspirations when he's talking about "Hope" and "Unity"? He's running for President, not head of the cheerleading squad.

    Parent
    um, yeah (none / 0) (#195)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:38:53 PM EST
    that wasn't actually Carter's fault, though, now was  it?

    BTD - Ive agreed with you mostly, but not on the (none / 0) (#205)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:40:06 PM EST
    affirmative action question.  That is just as much of a minefield for her as for him.

    Yah for GHWB. Yuck. (none / 0) (#208)
    by Teresa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:41:19 PM EST


    hahahahah (none / 0) (#209)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:41:20 PM EST
    Market manipulation with gas prices? That is a laugh. OPEC is market manipulation.

    VTech put together a tremendous website (none / 0) (#210)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:41:45 PM EST
    last year, the links on all that happened -- it was beautiful, getting to see the ceremonies.  And there were memorials today, and I hope they're online soon for me to see again.

    I work on a campus, I have faced threats there, and I felt so much empathy with VTech . . . it all came back to me today.  It could have been any campus, as we do not have the ability to lock all the doors -- there are hundreds of doors on my campus -- as our local grade schools and high schools do.  It could have been any campus, and every one of us knows it.

    So my students and I had a moment of silence again, as we did last year.

    I'm not watching so (none / 0) (#211)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:42:03 PM EST
    did he talk about all the mallards he bagged with his six-shooter in the duck blind?

    I just can't seem to let go of that one.

    And on Sunday! (5.00 / 2) (#225)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:44:43 PM EST
    Which in PA is not a day you can hunt.

    Parent
    Obama praises Bush (none / 0) (#231)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:46:25 PM EST
    because the little green meter eats it up.  Obama's discussion wasn't rating as high as Clinton but it did go up when he talked about working with the Repubs.  Go figure.  but that's why he does it, the response is positive when he does.

    She whispered to me . . GACK!!! (none / 0) (#238)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:51:18 PM EST


    she may not be voting for you, tho! (none / 0) (#239)
    by Klio on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:51:25 PM EST
    nt

    Comments closing here (none / 0) (#250)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 08:57:12 PM EST
    new post debate thread is here.

    Hillary Obama PA Debate: Live Blog II | 238 comments (238 topical)