But, Obama didn't -- he never asked.

You not only provided the easy link to debate but balanced coverage during it. Thanks for putting in the time, effort, and money to set it up.

Clinton was stronger in the second round.  The closing arguments were tied.

If these undecideds are the judges, it was a tie.

Taxes: CT: both raise some, McCain will use it. SS back and forth, he hit back about commission, this could percolate back up.  CT: middle class taxes? wiggle room to break pledge.

ewwww....  

KO is now discussing turbulence.  Ferraro, Wright, speech, bosnia, $109 mill, penn, Bill, bosnia, bitter, 16 down to 6 pts.

Again, I'm having increased trouble relating to Obama--and I started out for Edwards, but thinking toss up between Hillary and Obama. His early move toward the Repub SocSec-in-crisis talking points bothered me, then Krugman's analysis of his healthcare plan's shortcoming made me look more closely at Hillary and also Barack.

When I read about his "seeing the light and you will have an epiphany and will realize you must vote for Barack Obama," I was flabbergasted. I could not believe someone would say something like that. Yikes!  

Fineman on body language--that Obama was the leader overall! And moderators and Hillary were piling on.

BO's body language, to me, did not look like felt like the front runner.

Not great night for BO said Fineman! Quite an admission.

Robinson--debate not that fresh. Thought second half better, new info from people. Noted that first time Robinson had heard Obama say guns were an individual right. Hillary on protection umbrella.

The debate is over now. I watched all of it. The question on my mind, even tho I think Obama won, is when have we had a major debate moderated by someone i.e. George Stephanopoulos, who worked for the Clintons. Clintons are slime. The superdelegates will not be fooled by this.

I apologize that Hillary hasn't quit for you yet. I didn't understand this isn't a primary,

Love ya,

It's the first time he wasn't given an advantage somehow by the media.

MSNBC, of course, already has Keith on the job, talking about how terrible it all was.

Her strongest showing was on Iran (foreign policy) Obama looked good until she spoke, she just seemed to have a better grasp overall of the Middle East.

On Domestic policy (including economics)it was obvious Clinton has  a better grasp on policy and how to administer it than Obama. His lack of governing experience is glaring.

As a conservative Hillary's stance on guns, was outstanding and will endear her to independents like myself(it did.)

It seemed the moderator's spent the first half on electibility issues, as if it were an interview, or sales pitch to the Super Delegates, which Obama fumbled. Hillary can have only helped herself tonight.

I haven't seen any media reaction yet.

Post-Debate Open Thread
by MissLaura
Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:59:31 PM PDT

In a few minutes DHinMI is expected to post some more substantive analysis, but for now, keep on talking.

Given the historically poor quality of the questions tonight, I'm not going to put up the standard post-debate poll about who won. The answer is that democracy and the American people lost. I suppose if ABC sold some ads, they'll feel like they won.

9:50 PM ... What happened to the League of Women Voters? Can we give the debates back to them? This sort of episode really sickens me. KB's point above is sadly accurate. It's stuff like this that really makes me think that whole big chunks of the established press needs to be swept away.

And, suddenly, after 3+ months of endless blog-journamalism about the racist dog-whistling of Clinton's surrogates and campaign strategy, JMM searches for issue nuts:

9:56 PM ... As I noted above, I missed roughly the first half hour of this debate. But from what I heard about those thirty minutes and what I saw of the subsequent ninety minutes was basically debate by gotcha line with basically no discussion of any of the big questions the election is turning on.

I believe that HRC finally got something of a break tonight and BHO gotta feel for what she has gone through far more than he has.

Rachel Maddow: (Obama angry) I'm angry about it, gross, constitution, tabloid, Obama defensive-best ground to say he came out on short end of the stick, silver lining, ummm, bears up under criticism (?). Rachel thinks it sucked but that Obama didn't hold up well so it shows he holds up well.  uuuhhhmmmm ok?

KO: if this all has been thrown at him, Clinton unpopular, how does this change, GE, he's like Reagan with increasing teflon.

Pat Buchanan: if Clinton only wins by 2 the Repubs will need to look at how they go after Obama.

Also, I found myself reacting on a visceral level as I watched them both speak. When Hillary was speaking, I felt comfortable and relaxed, but when Obama addressed the issues I felt anxious. It had nothing to do with partisanship, because my reactions were totally unconcious and purely physical. Obviously, on a subconcious level I felt at ease with the notion of Hillary as president, and physically uncomfortable imagining Senator Obama as our nation's leader.

On the issues, I'm more in alignment with Hillary, but I thought my physical reactions were interesting.

And if you think Clinton's memory is bad on Bosnia, wait until the general election and the Republicans start in with Obama's memory and stuff he has said during the campaign.

Or what he wrote in one of his books. Maybe he's just tricking all of us. Or maybe that's what he really thinks of people.

As far as the issues, Clinton was much stronger and decisive on the issues. Obama seemed to be unsure. Clinton appeared more confident. Obama didn't really seem to know how to answer without stuttering or appearing to search for the answer.

Reject and Denounce!

He was having trouble finding words for vague generalites.

She had specifics : number one I would do this, number two I would do this...

she knew the material backward and forward and he was grabbing at straws.

A complete humiliation for him....

ABC

And let me just make one last point on this issue of the flag pin. As you noted, I wore one yesterday when a veteran handed it to me, who himself was disabled and works on behalf of disabled veterans. I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us from what should be my job when I'm commander in chief, which is going to be figuring out how we get our troops out of Iraq and how we actually make our economy better for the American people.

He said right here that he decided that he "wasn't going to wear "that pin" on [his] chest".

My takes, Clinton did best on...gas prices, education Iran, she had real good metering on Iraq, Economy was excellent, the moderators couldn't gotcha her, Obama on the other hand went low when he claimed Clinton was taped being less than consistent after Ohio?

I would have to look at the metering again, but the second have seemed to strongly favor Clinton.  Someone needs to measure who talked most with best response and get an average.

As many above have said, the first half of the debate was horrible. At the same time, it was good to see Obama get the same sort of miserable treatment usually reserved for Clinton.

Same with his San Francisco comments. His supporters like to treat it as an irrelevant sideshow, now that they've had a chance to explain what he really meant (although they'll tell you that any intelligent observer already understood him perfectly.) The fact is, a candidate was talking about what he thinks is important to the voters, and what motivates them to vote. I fail to see how that's irrelevant.

The questions did seem one-sided in the first half, but I really think a lot of that can be attributed to the fact that it's the first time Obama has been hit with tough questions, and more importantly, tough follow-up questions. The moderators couldn't treat Hillary the same way, because she's been getting those questions all along. And how much can they hit her with on Bosnia, after she says "it was embarrassing and I was wrong"?

My biggest complaint with Hillary was on issues like Ayers and Wright. I don't think she helps herself by being the one to appear to press the issue, and saying things like "we need to examine this more." Once the moderators laid the dirt on the table, there was no need for her to repeat it. Just say something like "I think these are important issues and it's fair to bring them up." Let's face it, next to the primary voters, the most important audience were the supers. For some reason, a lot of these people who have been through a lot of tough campaigns are buying the spin that Hillary's campaign is vicious and destructive. Like it or not, she needs to disabuse them of that idea.

She also had a bad habit of looking off into space while talking. I even said to my wife that I thought she might be addressing the people in  the hall. But Obama seemed to be talking to the moderators, and it made him look more focused.