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Sunday Afternoon Open Thread

The weather's too nice in Denver to stay indoors. For those of you online, if you've got something to say, here's a place. As always, please keep it civil.

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    Why on earth havent the Obama supporters (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by athyrio on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:32:15 PM EST
    considered, that once he got the nomination, he would have nothing but bad press to endure for the rest of this election period....Up until now, it has been mild and still he is barely keeping up despite all this positive press..I don't understand why they don't think about this....He IMHO is unelectable....

    But, but, but, Kerry says Obama (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:33:31 PM EST
    will not be swiftboated as Kerry was.  Just relax.

    Parent
    Unfortunately for you (none / 0) (#33)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:16:07 PM EST
    Elections are not decided on who random commenters think is unelectable.  Senator Clinton is not in the best position to argue for electability as she has some of the highest negative ratings of any political figure nationwide.  Furthermore, her powerful electability should be reflected in primary wins, but it is not--she's losing handily.

    Parent
    Stretch (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:18:37 PM EST
    enator Clinton is not in the best position to argue for electability as she has some of the highest negative ratings of any political figure nationwide

    So, Bush and Cheney have higher favorability ratings?  Honestly, consider the talking point before repeating it.  

    Parent

    Fine, (none / 0) (#38)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:21:16 PM EST
    Democratic political figure.  

    I should have said "on the left", but this would falsely portray Clinton as "on the left".  I should have said Democrat.  My bad.

    Parent

    Negatives? (none / 0) (#43)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:24:03 PM EST
    Obama's are on the rise, check out last weeks NY Times poll.  One half of a campaign and they are tanking.  

    Parent
    Which explains why he's up (none / 0) (#49)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:33:21 PM EST
    ten points in Rasmussen nationwide and double digits in North Carolina and dramatically cut Hillary's lead in Pennsylvania.  If that's tanking, I'll take more of it.

    Parent
    Actually she is kicking a** in the primaries. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:30:03 PM EST
    If you think the primaries should determine the nominee, then Clinton is your candidate!

    Parent
    Yeah, she got clobbered (none / 0) (#45)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:25:07 PM EST
    In California, and Ohio, and Massachusetts. He just killed her in the primaries there.

    Parent
    3-state strategy working out for you? -nt- (none / 0) (#52)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:35:47 PM EST
    You go look at the popular vote (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:46:50 PM EST
    in the primaries, and then come back here and tell me he's handing it to her. Your comment is simply incorrect.

    Parent
    He's winning by an insurmountable pledged delegate (none / 0) (#59)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:53:32 PM EST
    Lead.  

    He will be the nominee contrary to what Senator Clinton told Katie Couric a while back.

    Just answer me this:  what chance do you think Clinton will pull this off?  Seriously...what chance do you think she has of winning the nomination?

    Parent

    Pretty small (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:00:11 PM EST
    Pulling a number out of the air, I'd give her a 15% chance.

    Your earlier statement to which I responded was about primary votes, not about pledged delegates.

    At the end of the day, Clinton will not have the pledged delegates to win.  Neither will Obama.

    Parent

    But he'll have more (none / 0) (#62)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:06:07 PM EST
    and that will clinch it barring some unforeseen political relations disaster--hence why Clinton is still in the race.

    Glad to see we're all on the same page.

    Parent

    Not sure we're on the same page. (none / 0) (#69)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:35:28 PM EST
    A plurality is not a majority. Superdelegates will make their own decisions, and they may go with the candidate with a plurality of pledged delegates, or they may go with the candidate with a plurality of popular votes.

    Parent
    Obama will lead in both (none / 0) (#75)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:44:49 PM EST
    It's been discussed ad nauseum, but I doubt she'll have the advantage by either metric. Super-delegates will "vote their conscience", but I doubt that any of the uncommitted ones are excited about casting a vote for Clinton as her campaign is just kind of sad at this point. It isn't uplifting, and probably not going to garner most super-delegate votes.

    Parent
    Electability (none / 0) (#46)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:27:04 PM EST
    I would say losing 20% of the Democratic base makes electability for Obama an issue

    Parent
    Love the Blackmail (none / 0) (#51)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:34:55 PM EST
    So we should nominate the candidate who trails by every metric imaginable BECAUSE a few polls show her supporters won't vote for the winner.  What kind of logic is this?

    For historical reference, please recall that 20 percent of voters in previous primaries have said the same thing to pollsters in both Republican and Democratic races.  

    It's a meaningless statistic.

    Parent

    Winning in November (none / 0) (#65)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:26:01 PM EST
    should be a consideration.  Obama can't survive a 20% drop in Clinton support.  Clinton, so far, can still win with a higher drop out from Obama supporters.

    Parent
    Heh... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:55:14 PM EST
    You're candidate said we should use this metric, I never considered it: "my voters will not vote for her" and his wife, will consider the "tone".  

    Parent
    Not my candidate (none / 0) (#81)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:12:17 PM EST
    Stellaaa, just checking....are you responding to me?  I was disagreeing with the previous person.  I think Obama's opinion is being refuted by all of the polls.  More of Clinton supporters say they will not vote for him.  Some believe people (looks like Deadalus in one) that Clinton supporters will 'get over it.'  I just think a larger of supporters on one side (Clinton's) are not going to 'get over it.'  I happen to think that attitude is condescending myself.

    Parent
    The media (none / 0) (#68)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:34:54 PM EST
    has really manipulated the Primaries.

    Just this morning CNN gave some stats about viewership being up due to the primaries. They really do not want this to end.

    Once we get a Dem nominee... they media will play the same game with the GE.

    There is a reason why we can't get a Dem in the WH... the media doesn't want it to happen.

    That is the BIG reason why ALL DEMS should be outrages about themedia... but BTD covered that one in one of his posts.

    Parent

    Thankful to have found this site (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by MisterPleasant on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:15:21 PM EST
    I have been an avid reader at Eschaton, Huffington Post, etc. for a while now.  But as this 2008 presidential campaign has progressed, I find the majority of posters at those sites to be thoughtless, irresponsible, and juvenile.   So glad to find a place where liberals can discuss issues without fear of name-calling or flippant put-downs.

    To all folks who post here - keep up the good work.

    Hillary Clinton has lost. Thus spoke (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:05:10 PM EST
    Kos in Newsweek.  See Huff Post for link.

    Gee, I think I'll pass. (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Fabian on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:47:47 PM EST
    After watching dk froth over the Trina Bachtel story, it's hard to remember that there are some worthy writers over there.

    The funny thing is that the Bachtel story points out that it is almost impossible to verify any medical care story without a release of medical records.  And if the patient or patient's family refuses to release any information, it's really just speculation, rumor and gossip.

    And that makes me look in a very different way at nyceve's diaries which are usually about health care and often about patient's done wrong by an insurer.

    There's no way to verify any story about any patient UNLESS the patient/patient's family releases actual private medical records.  Otherwise, it is really a "we say" versus "they say" story with at least one party reluctant to disclose any information that could be used against them legally.

    I've worked in a hospital.  There are tough care decisions made every day - by the patients, the families, the care providers and the insurers.  Diseases are usually treated, rarely cured.  Cruel diseases can sometimes be temporarily thwarted by treatments which are both risky and damaging to the patient.  Decisions are rarely simple and clear, but people confronted with "Insurer X denies life saving treatment to dying child!" immediately jump into outrage mode without asking any questions.

    I'm immensely interested in the Bachtel case because what gives me Outrage Fever is the lack of care that leads to health crises.  Bachtel's story could be one of a high risk pregnancy that went very wrong despite all appropriate care.  Or her story could be one of patient and care provider decided to go with minimal treatment and hoped and prayed that things went well.  

    There's no way to know, and it seems unlikely that her family will reveal any information.

    Parent

    My reasons for supporting Hillary: (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:04:07 AM EST

    are being an immigrant who came to the US at the age of 17 from Germany.  I have watched politics most of my life from a neutral point of view, not getting involved until Wes Clark (of all people - A MILITARY GENERAL - oh no to me a peace activist).

    Hillary, however, always was on the horizon for me, as I watched her identify the "vast Right-wing Conspiracy" she got ridiculed for way, way back then.

    She was right back then, and she has fought tooth and nail to expose and oppose them ever since.

    Another thing I noticed, after first arriving in the states, was the gullibility of Americans to opening their hearts and being influenced by advertisements.

    Where I came from, advertisements were restricted to the top of the hour.  2 or 3 minutes, and no programs being interrupted by them.

    I felt furious about the constant interruptions in programming.  That was new to me, and I didn't like it.

    But here it just seemed like it was a normal thing.  I don't know how I can quite link this to the current political climate, but I have a strong feeling that this is part of why the populace acts the way it does.  And I think it's outright stupid.  But of course, I grew up in another country.  So I expect a comment or two telling me to go back to where I came from.

    Hillary has just amazed me over the years.  She is a woman all of us women should be proud of.  She's gone through hell and high water more often than I've had my period.

    Whatever happens, she's my lady, and will go down in the history books as one true fighter, for the rights of women, children, and ordinary people.

    http://politifact.com/media/travel.html

    I should also include (none / 0) (#95)
    by Gabriele Droz on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:06:46 AM EST
    minorities in the list.  Hispanics, African Americans, and Native Americans.

    Parent
    Enjoy your day (none / 0) (#1)
    by maritza on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:08:03 PM EST
    It's nice here in California too!!

    Not so great in MD, but..... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:33:39 PM EST
    ...at least its Sunday!

    Parent
    Clinton superdelegate lead shrunk to 26 overnight (none / 0) (#2)
    by magster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:08:06 PM EST
    from 28 yesterday according to DemConWatch, but I do not see from where the Obama endorses came. Anyone know?

    Not sure about yesterday, but (none / 0) (#27)
    by eleanora on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:00:54 PM EST
    former Senator John Melcher of Montana endorsed Obama on Wednesday, may prove to be a mixed blessing here.

    Parent
    asdf (none / 0) (#29)
    by eleanora on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:06:53 PM EST
    From Politico: April 5

    "New Add-On superdelegates:

    Missouri: Jay Nixon and Susan Montee. Montee has endorsed Obama.

    Washington, DC: Yvette Alexander and Harry Thomas, Jr. Alexander has endorsed Obama.

    Delaware: Rob Carver. Carver has endorsed Obama"

    So two for Clinton, three for Obama. Not sure where the other one comes from.

    Parent

    I had read that the 2 not for Obama (none / 0) (#39)
    by magster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:22:07 PM EST
    are uncommitted, with the DC guy leaning Obama becuase of his constituency despite being personally for Clinton.

    Parent
    OIC, sorry to misinterpret. (none / 0) (#50)
    by eleanora on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:33:48 PM EST
    I find the superdelegate counts hard to keep track of lately.

    Parent
    Even if...even if (none / 0) (#4)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:15:53 PM EST
    he heard that, why would he say it?  Are these people all so naive?

    Schieffer said it (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:32:53 PM EST
    Dean refuted it.

    Parent
    The interview is available @ FTN n/t (none / 0) (#19)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:35:45 PM EST
    the false comment you are replying to (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:35:04 PM EST
    has been deleted.

    Parent
    Here's the comment from Scheiffer (none / 0) (#72)
    by wasabi on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:40:51 PM EST
    "Let me ask you, what we keep hearing and that is that both Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are telling superdelegates and telling anyone who will listen .  They say this in private, but we keep hearing it, so there must be something to this. That they are saying that Barack Obama simply can't win and maybe the suggestion is he can't win because he is an African American."

    I cannot imagine that the Clinton camp would go around saying Obama is unelectable because he is an African American.  I asked where he got that idea from.  It seems very slanderous.

    Parent

    Kubrick (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:18:46 PM EST
    I liked Eyes Wide Shut enough to buy it, but never made the connection that Kubrick was slamming the Illuminati. This argument makes sense, although I am not sure that his death was a result of making the movie. I would love to see the entire uncut version, but I am not holding my breath.

    via robot wisdom

    Some wild..... (none / 0) (#99)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 10:11:12 AM EST
    food for thought there squeaky.

    I find the whole illuminati conspiracy very interesting.  

    Will our next president take part in the strange rituals at Bohemian Grove?

    Parent

    Wild For Sure (none / 0) (#100)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 02:59:27 PM EST
    Here is smore.  BTW- the link misrepresents the source of Eyes Wide Shut It is not trauma-ville but Traumnovelle by Schnitzler.

    Parent
    I am sure what Dean means is that (none / 0) (#8)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:23:19 PM EST
    Hillary's people are showing the Demographics to SD's which show that Obama does not win enough support from white voters, which is not the same thing at ALL.
    And isn't Obama's strength that he carries so much of the black vote?? Will Dean say that Obama is winning the black vote because he himself is black?


    For instance, John Kerry was weak with white (none / 0) (#11)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:27:50 PM EST
    males, but that had nothing to do with HIS race, that I am aware of.

    Parent
    Dean di not say it (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:32:33 PM EST
    Indeed, Dean said it was false that Clinton was saying it. Scheiffer said it.

    Parent
    According to today's NYT, (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:23:49 PM EST
    blogging may be a young person's game--too stressful:

    NYT

    Amen... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:16:04 PM EST
    Clinton on CNN (none / 0) (#12)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:30:13 PM EST
    taking questions in Montana.....

    Ok, this is the most unpleasant (none / 0) (#20)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:39:03 PM EST
    thing I have read in a while:
    Barackobama.com has a post comparing Hillary to a slavemistress.
    I am not surprised, of course.

    You say Obama, I say NObama.

    you're right (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:44:40 PM EST
    it's extremely offensive and it has been up since Feb. Does no one there monitor their community blogs? I doubt Obama would approve of the blogpost.

    Parent
    Well, that brings up an interesting point: (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:48:17 PM EST
    I imagine that somewhere on the website is a note saying that all posts on community blogs have to be approved, or are subject to removal if found offensive. If I'm right, then the fact that post is still there in April tends to indicate that it was NOT found offensive.

    Parent
    MarkL, that's a jaw-dropper. (none / 0) (#42)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:22:47 PM EST
    Here's the direct link to the Obama community blog with the post you're talking about: "Hillary vs Obama: The Slavery Perspective", by Shae Smith.

    It was actually posted on February 14th, Valentines Day, what a lovely sentiment.

    No Quarter featured it rather prominently today; so I don't think it'll be up much longer.


    Parent

    Just for the record, it was on Taylor Marsh's (none / 0) (#91)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:53:00 PM EST
    site yesterday.  Some link or other took me there, and those manacles (and the whole awful post) are memorable.

    Parent
    Obviously it was not found to be offensive (none / 0) (#84)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:42:50 PM EST
    and was approved of by someone in the campaign or it would have been removed.  It does fit with a theme I think may be lurking underneath his campaign.

    Parent
    The Western States (none / 0) (#21)
    by 1jane on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:40:55 PM EST
    Visited the Missoula, Montana newspapers, noting difference in audience size and venues just like in Oregon. Obama connected with around 30,000 folks on his Oregon tour, Clinton connected with around 5,000.

    In Oregon several Obama offices are open across the state with more expected. The difference in the candidates ground game is remarkable. Even the most rural of counties has an Obama field rep assigned.

    Uptick of around 10,000 Republicans switching to Democrats to vote in the Oregon May 20 primary.


    I recall a lot of coverage (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by ChrisO on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:37:11 PM EST
    of Obama drawing huge crowds in California, as well. He's a great speaker and will always draw big crowds. I think it's beyond the point of that being an indicator of how well he'll do in an election, however.

    Parent
    The college kids (none / 0) (#28)
    by eleanora on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:02:30 PM EST
    in Missoula really turned out for him, that's for sure. I wish they'd scheduled these visits more in advance, those of us with families have a bit of trouble getting away at the last minute.

    Parent
    Oregon (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:11:31 PM EST
    Obama's tour was two weeks  ago. Different crowds and venues.

    The high school gymnasium, which seats roughly 2,500 people, was near capacity. Most of those in attendance were either much older or younger than the 10,000 college students who filled McArthur Court to see Obama two weeks ago.

    Hillary speaks at smaller venues, like high school auditoriums. She did great yesterday. One school in Hillsborough, OR

    Thousands lined up outside, and 3,000 lucky ones made it inside, for the first Oregon campaign appearance by Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

    The Statesman Journal:

    She spoke to more than 2,600 people packed into the Liberty High School gym, and a couple of thousand more heard her from the adjoining cafeteria on a cloudy and chilly day.

    News photos of Hillary's appearances here.

    Another newspaper writes Hillary Dazzled.

    In Eugene, 2,500, with picture.  More here.

    Eugene police estimated that about 2,500 people turned up to see the New York senator's stop on the campaign trail.

    More with pictures here.

    Parent

    NPRs On the Media (none / 0) (#23)
    by suisser on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:45:43 PM EST
    did a piece on Media playing the contest between HRC and BO for ratings and failing to let us all in on the fact that, "it's over people, she's lost" Opening segment intended, I guess, to be provacative, just infuriating to this set of ears.
    Anyone else catch it?  Sorry I can't link, I seem to be linkably challenged  :(

    On the Media: (none / 0) (#25)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:52:20 PM EST
    Big Tent Democrat (none / 0) (#34)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:18:15 PM EST
    It would behoove all of us if you would at least nod to the fact that Obama leads in delegates EVEN IF you include Florida AND Michigan, where of course he wasn't on the ballot.  To fail to mention this stirs up animosity needlessly and may harm the presumptive nominee's chances in the fall.

    I think we all know it. (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:20:23 PM EST
    Contrary to popular belief, we are not low information voters.

    Parent
    You must be new here (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:29:28 PM EST
    Even if MI and FL are included, does Sen. Obama have the majority necessary to win? Let me answer that for you: no. So I hardly think you should be calling him the "presumptive nominee."

    If Sen. Obama's campaign is so fragile that his chances in November can be harmed by Dems trying to make sure all the states get to have their votes counted, well, that's pretty sad.

    Parent

    I said (none / 0) (#56)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:41:51 PM EST
    Presumptive nominee....but did not specify who that was.  And for Senator Clinton to ask pledged delegates to switch their votes at the same time that she rails against the Michigan vote being discounted harms her chances as well as his.  It's not helping anyone at this point for her to be pounding this dead horse.

    Parent
    That is laughable (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Democratic Cat on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:51:49 PM EST
    If you want to pretend now (and upthread) that you were talking about whoever is the nominee when you were clearly referring to Sen. Obama, go right ahead.

    Parent
    Obama did not write that post (none / 0) (#37)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:20:33 PM EST
    and there are thousands of posts on the site.

    Nitpicking the presumptive nominee is not helpful folks.  We need a Democrat in the White House, and he's the only one with a chance at this point.

    Just imagine...if it was on Hillary's site (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:22:43 PM EST
    "presumptive nominee" does not equal immunity from Democratic and or ethical values.  

    Parent
    There have been several posts on Hillarys website (none / 0) (#54)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:38:06 PM EST
    that have spread the rumor that Obama is a secret Muslim.  I did not  participated in the pitchfork mob over those comments, by the way.  

    Both have large websites with millions of followers and plenty of free blog-space for even Republicans to infiltrate.  Some crap will inevitably slip through--and has--on each site.

    Parent

    yeah and those posts were found (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:20:43 PM EST
    to have been deleted by the HRC blog moderator.  They weren't found in anything except the google cache.  HRC's moderator does their job...

    Parent
    link? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:13:49 PM EST
    in html format, please.

    Parent
    Response (none / 0) (#70)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:38:40 PM EST
    A Daily Kos diarist has catalogued numerous instances of this, which have of course been taken down. Here The posts were verified by commenters, and by google's cache system. Here's an example of one: Cached Google Image In anycase, it's been blogged about several times.

    Parent
    Glad to see they were taken down. (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:54:12 PM EST
    Maybe Obama's people should do the same?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#79)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:57:16 PM EST
    There are crazy people in every sector of every group in the blogosphere.....it's just silly to show an instance of some crazy comment on a blog as representative of a vast group of people. It's disingenuous and should be laughed at.

    Parent
    oerhaps you could have the Obama (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by RalphB on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:49:11 PM EST
    campaign take the slave post down before defending them for letting it stay there since February.  Assuming they're not a bunch of despicable race baiters.  Laugh away.


    Parent
    "Despicable Race Baiters" (none / 0) (#87)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:13:12 PM EST
    I'm assuming they're not. Are you?

    Parent
    It is your opinion that Obama is the only one (none / 0) (#44)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:24:43 PM EST
    with a chance; since a lot of us feel that is exactly wrong, it is not a convincing reason to overlook that kind of post at HIS web site.

    Parent
    It is an opinion substantiated by fact (none / 0) (#55)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:39:53 PM EST
    Hillary is down by 6 percentage points in pledged delegates with 82 percent reporting.  Statistically she would need 27 percent of remaining pledged delegates in all races to tie Barack Obama.  Each time she falls under 27 percent (and has every time but one--Arkansas), the number needed to overcome his lead becomes greater.  

    Super-delegates are very unlikely to nominate the candidate who trails in pledged delegates--especially when she had all the institutional advantages a former first-lady has.  It wouldn't be prudent, and it won't happen.

    Parent

    Strange response.. very strange. (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by MarkL on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:33:43 PM EST
    Obama is probably the weakest candidate since McGovern, and all you can say is that he will win the nomination. Well, so did McGovern!

    Parent
    How is he the weakest candidate since McGovern? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:40:19 PM EST
    He's the strongest since Clinton, I'd say. And if you're going to point to general election match-ups, he does quite well. He's done better than Clinton overall. However, polls this far out are meaningless, so I'm assuming this is just your analysis, which you're entitled to. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion, though.

    Parent
    I responded (none / 0) (#74)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:43:04 PM EST
    saying he's the only one with a chance since he's the only one with a chance of being the nominee. I was backing up my claim to the latter, not the former. I think "electability" arguments are a bit silly, and far too complicated for a forum discussion.

    Parent
    Winning in November (none / 0) (#66)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:29:56 PM EST
    should be a consideration.  Yes, I am repeating myself but then so are you.

    Parent
    How can you determine that? (none / 0) (#73)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:42:11 PM EST
    If you want to point to general election polls, I'd say both do just fine. Furthermore, if this is how we decide the nominee, let's just do away with an expensive primary/caucus system since it doesn't guarantee the most electable candidate will win.

    Parent
    God (none / 0) (#40)
    by Deadalus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:22:23 PM EST
    I wish I was in Denver or California.....that would be amazing.

    Ferraro revisited (none / 0) (#60)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:59:54 PM EST
    Ferraro took quite a beating for suggesting that Obama has benefited, in politics, because he is black.

    It appears that Obama fully endorsed that perspective when he was a State Senator. The Chicago Tribune paraphrased Obama's thoughts on this in a story in 2005: "When it comes to race, Obama makes his point--with subtlety".

    Obama is not directly quoted. However, the Tribune article was posted on his website when he was a State Senator, and it's still posted online, so it's safe to assume that Obama feels he was accurately represented in the article.

    Was the content of this web page ever discussed in the media, in defense of Ferraro? (Aside from Hannity discussing it recently with Ferraro)

    Kos at Newsweek (none / 0) (#64)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:21:50 PM EST
    Is this just a pick up of usual rant?

    She's already lost....sundering her own party. It is an inherently divisive strategy, but she doesn't appear to care.... destructive coup attempt. Clinton, unfortunately, is pretending not to notice. So at the moment, it's useless to demand she exit ....

    Sounds like the same old, came old from him.

    caught again... (none / 0) (#76)
    by myed2x on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:46:36 PM EST
    Yeah, right (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by waldenpond on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:21:23 PM EST
    that's stretching it a bit.....

    [But Obama offered criticisms of the war in Iraq eight days before that, directly to Rice, in his very first meeting as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Jan. 18.]

    Eight (count them, eight)days.... ha! ha! ha!

    Parent

    Mort Zuckerman (who I agree with maybe (none / 0) (#83)
    by kenosharick on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 04:39:03 PM EST
    half the time) Had a GREAT editorial in US News& World Report of April 7/14 about Obama and the rev. wright.  He brings up many important points- it should be required reading for every superdelegate.

    if true... (none / 0) (#88)
    by myed2x on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 05:22:37 PM EST
    ...it's despicable. Note: quoting Hitchens is equal to quoting Althouse or Rove, both done here.

    http://the-reaction.blogspot.com/2008/04/why-did-she-lie.html

     

    campaign finance - Obama (none / 0) (#89)
    by Susaninbosque on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 06:19:47 PM EST
    It has concerned me for some time that there does not seem to be a way to verify that all of the new (enormous amounts every month) of small on-line donors to Obama's campaign are not in fact one of the following instead of what they are stated to be:
    1. actually large donations which are submitted on-line in such a way as to appear to be numerous, small and new by an electronic operation that is set up just to perform the function of parcelling large amounts of monies into smaller, more numerous donations
    2. actually foreign money funneled into the campaign via some kind of an electronic scheme mentioned in #1 due to Obama's history of what Rezko brought to the table from foreign money

    Because of the current problems involved in the functioning of the FEC, is it even possible to do a surface audit of where Obama's funds are originating?  We were told some time ago that Obama was either selling bumper stickers or selling tickets to events and logging each person who bought a bumper sticker or a ticket as a new donor.  Is it possible for us to know whether the names of these people who thought they were buying bumper stickers or tickets have been used later to funnel money from some other source?  Is there anybody actually monitoring this kind of thing except the FEC which seems to be primarily a govt entity which asks for voluntary compliance at this point?

    Will we know if Obama's campaign has been financed by foreign money interests prior to the election?  There are many positions that his campaign has taken that makes an affirmative answer to this question appear to make sense.

    Clinton Misspeaking Again, This Time About Iraq (none / 0) (#92)
    by sar75 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:53:42 PM EST
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/in-oregon-clint.html

    She is not lying, she is simply misspeaking.

    So... (none / 0) (#93)
    by americanincanada on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:21:55 PM EST
    What does everyone think of Condi campaigning to be VP? What could it mean?

    LINK

    MLK 40th anniversary (none / 0) (#96)
    by nellre on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:46:48 AM EST
    I'm wondering whether the MLK 40th anniversary is affecting the polls.


    Dean and The Media (none / 0) (#97)
    by IzikLA on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:31:20 AM EST
    Finally reached my breaking point with the media this Sunday, so I sent an e-mail to the reporter of a leading story on the yahoo homepage.  I wanted to share the misrepresentative statements in this story and my subsequent e-mail response in a place where I would hopefully find some welcoming support : )

    "Hi -

    I have never written an e-mail like this to a reporter, but I have a tremendous problem with 1) Dean and 2) how this is being reported in the media.  My problems start with the statements in your article here:

    "Clinton wants both states counted in her column because she prevailed in the two primaries though some Democrats followed party instructions and stayed away. Obama's name didn't appear on the Michigan ballot.

    ``Michigan's wasn't an election,'' Dean said. ``You only had one candidate on the ballot. That's not an election.''"

    My problems are, in the first paragraph, that it is implied that Clinton and her supporters did not follow the rules ("though some Democrats followed party instructions and stayed away"), that somehow, by voting, they are in the wrong.  This is reprehensible reporting and is monumentally contributing to the free-ride Obama is getting and the unfair, oft-promoted concept that Clinton has a 'will-do-anything-to-win' attitude that is hurting her chances now during a very critical time in her campaign and for our country.

    This claim is perpetuated even further by the statement that "Obama's name didn't appear on the Michigan ballot."  A more clearly defined reporting of this situation would be that Obama withdrew his name from the MI ballot.  He did not have to withdraw his name, he did it to appease Iowa and the other early states.  Clinton left her name on the ballot for many reasons, not the least of which was that, as stated by her clearly (an oft-neglected part of her statement) that she didn't want to risk the party's chances come November.

    Now, in regards to that second paragraph, I didn't see the Dean interview so I can't be sure if it was Dean that misspoke or if it is you, the one reporting it, but I do know for certain that Clinton was not the only person on the ballot (Kucinich, Gravel & Dodd were as well).  As a reporter, it should be your job to either 1) report it accurately if it is an accurate statement and, if it is not, then you must 2) question or state what is not accurate about the statment that was made by the person being quoted.  To me, this should be reporting 101.

    Please report fairly.  I don't feel that I should be e-mailing these kinds of responses, but I am starting to feel as if someone has to start speaking up, whether their voices are heard or not.

    Thank You,
    Isaac."

    Anyone else been pushed to this point like I was today??!

    Michelle Obama's brother, (none / 0) (#98)
    by caseyOR on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:32:49 AM EST
    The late news is on here in Portland, and the sports guy just announced that Craig Robinson, Michelle's brother, will be the new mens basketball coach at Oregon State University. He is currently the coach at Brown University.