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Obama Congratulates Hillary for Her Win in Indiana

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:15:44 PM EST
Tags: North Carolina '08, Indana '08 (all tags)
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Of course, he said her "apparent" win, but I think it was a concession.

Is anyone watching Obama? He's speakng now.

9:41 pm: Indiana vote: Almost 950,000 votes in, Hillary has 52%, Obama 48%. Fox and CNN still have not called it.

Comments now closed, new threads are up.

< New Elections Thread, CBS Calls Indiana for Hillary | Brazile vs. Begala on CNN: Brazile's Blowout >

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    Obama Congratulates Hillary for Her Win in Indiana | 256 comments (256 topical)
    Unless he's changed anything I'll pass (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:17:30 PM EST
    I never liked church.
    Truly, it isn't churchish this time (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:49 PM EST
    He's leaving the preaching sync style out.  I have to give him some credit here.

    Parent
    Well good for him (4.50 / 2) (#16)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:22 PM EST
    Still not in the mood.


    Parent
    The only thing I'd give him (3.66 / 3) (#116)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:44 PM EST
    is the finger...just returning the favor he did to Hillary.

    Parent
    Yes, a statesman moment (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:18 PM EST
    I was stunned but it was a pleasant stunned.  He just keeps saying nice things too and even good things about the race and the Democratic party.  Extremely statesmanesque!

    Make-up sex! (none / 0) (#83)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:47 PM EST
    Always something to look forward to.

    Parent
    I hate make up sex (none / 0) (#171)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:02:37 PM EST
    It relies a lot upon returning to the fantasy that we were once truly in love and we can revisit that bliss.  I'd rather have a chocolate ;)  It doesn't get you pregnant.

    Parent
    He Always Was (none / 0) (#94)
    by creeper on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:59 PM EST
    good with words.

    Parent
    Im watching (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Chisoxy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:29 PM EST
    ..Ive gagged about 3 times so far.

    gaggin...and gaggin. (3.66 / 3) (#9)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:20:30 PM EST
    He is such a lie.  

    Parent
    Hahahahahahahahaha (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:47:57 PM EST
    don't puke!  You will have to listen to preachy Obama for the next several months.

    Me?  If Hillary doesn't get the nomination, I"m dropping out of the Democratic Party.  I'm tired of the mediocrity and snobbery being passed off as good politics.

    Enjoy the speech, I can't listen to him anymore.

    Parent

    Stellaaa, I love you (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:41 PM EST
    And Hillary's my girl.  Put they're politicians and that makes them ALL liars at some point and usually at many points on a timeline.

    Parent
    I just cannot vote for him (4.66 / 3) (#27)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:30 PM EST
    I know way too much about his so called creds as a community organizer.  He truly repulses me.  

    Parent
    He's truly "gamed the system" (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by NotThatStupid on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:05:29 PM EST
    That phrase that he used at one of the early debates,  regarding how people could exploit the loopholes in his (non-universal) health care plan, pretty much sums up his approach to winning the nomination: Win the red states that will be unwinnable in the GE, game the caucus process where possible, and ratchet up the AA vote by unjustly tarring Senator Clinton with the "racist" brush.

    The thought of anyone winning 90%+ of any significant demographic - I don't care which, be it AAs, whites, hispanics, or okra lovers - is obscene in a democracy.

    Lucky for the Republicans their campaign does not rely on AA support.

    After hearing the remarks of Brazille and her ilk writing off the working class tonight, it looks like I'll be voting for the most qualified candidate in the Fall, and not Senator Obama.


    Parent

    what about the community (none / 0) (#49)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:34:19 PM EST
    organizing?!!

    Parent
    Community organizer (4.87 / 8) (#57)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:36:30 PM EST
    would never, ever have taken the side of Rezko and let the affordable housing go under.  I think he is an opportunist who stands for nothing.  If he cannot save some housing in his district in the name of self interest, money from Rezko, he is a fraud.  

    Parent
    oh well, yeah.. that's exactly right; however (none / 0) (#67)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:39:11 PM EST
    it's not an argument that will reach many voters.

    Parent
    that is why for me it's personal (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:40:10 PM EST
    affordable housing has been my life's work.  So, to see a false narrative using community organizing.  

    Parent
    Ah, well, there are so many false (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:47:05 PM EST
    narratives to choose from, when it comes to Obama's autobiography. Embarrasse de riches.

    Parent
    I read that his community organizing amounted (4.50 / 2) (#117)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:46 PM EST
    to nothing but doing a voter registration drive for a church.  Does anyone know anything about this?  

    Someone asked once --where are all the people who worked with Obama when he was being a "community organizer?" Why aren't they out there speaking up about how great he was?

    I think he is a total fraud.

    Parent

    It will when the GOP gets to work. Heh. nt (none / 0) (#138)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:37 PM EST


    Parent
    obama takes it to a whole new level. (3.66 / 3) (#60)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:36:57 PM EST
    it's pathological.

    Parent
    he should of just said 5 mins speech. (none / 0) (#89)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:25 PM EST
    why did he go on and on....like he got the nom?

    He's still behind likeHillary just a bit ahead.

    Parent

    Because he can't get enough of his own voice (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:02:40 PM EST
    whichever one he's using: preacher-man, street-smart guy, or harvard-grad.

    Parent
    He's a "prof" (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:08:08 PM EST
    and classes are 50 minutes, minimum.

    Be glad he apparently doesn't teach 75 minute classes -- or 3 hour classes.:-)

    Parent

    He's a (prof)essional untruth teller who has (4.00 / 1) (#228)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:16:43 PM EST
    bamboozled a large portion of a certain segment of the electorate.

    Parent
    Indiana republicans reasons for supporting Obama (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Left of center on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:18:59 PM EST
    very interesting article.
    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/06/republicans_give_mixed_reasons.html

    Lopsided Coverage (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Athena on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:19:14 PM EST
    I'm tired of coverage that overrewards Obama and undercredits Clinton.

    I can't watch more change either.  It's so much "change" it's predictable.

    I am now living in a parallel universe (5.00 / 3) (#182)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:58 PM EST
    where I watch Fox to get fair and balanced reporting.  They crap on both Barack and Hillary, but at least it's fair.

    Parent
    I think his speech (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:08 PM EST
    was more of the same...not impressed so far. He won't have me until he finally embraces the Clinton legacy.

    Yeah, he needs to come clean there (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:31 PM EST
    to really be credible while saying complimentary Clintonish things.  He took a B.S. dump on that one!

    Parent
    It's a pattern with his whole team (none / 0) (#124)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:51:01 PM EST
    They must think acknowledging the Clinton administrations great successes would constitute campaigning for Hillary.

    They needed to find a way to do just that, in my opinion. He could get people thinking that Reagan was the last great administration and be accused of campaigning for McCain.


    Parent

    He can't. (none / 0) (#194)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:06:35 PM EST
    Even if he could make his mouth form the words, they would be so completely insincere.  

    I will be switching my registration to Independent.  This party no longer represents me.

    Parent

    Obama did say "some say" other's (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by jawbone on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:03 PM EST
    suppoters won't vote for the eventual winner, but, he said, he doesn't believe that.

    Of course, he's the one who raised that issue! Saying her voters would come to him, but he wasn't sure his voters would support her.

    OK.

    Let's rewrite history.

    HRC has unambiguously (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by litigatormom on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:49 PM EST
    said, time after time, that she will support and campaign for Obama if he is the nominee.

    Obama has never been that unambiguous, not once. He says "I'll work for Democrats," or "we'll come together after the nomination is settled."  Not, "I, Barack Obama, will support Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee."

    Or have I missed that?

    Parent

    He has said (once that I know of) that (none / 0) (#104)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:59 PM EST
    he would support her nomination, but has never said work or campaign to my knowledge. Most of the time, when he talks party unity, it sounds like he's been told to. Not from the heart like her. He's just not that into the Dem Party as it was.

    Parent
    He is a Democrat because that is the party (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:24 PM EST
    that a black man can get ahead in. He is a Democrat because that is where the patronage in Chicago is. He is not a Democrat out of conviction but out of self-interest.

    Parent
    Yup. And I hate to say it, but (none / 0) (#209)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:11:19 PM EST
    if he's the nom, I hope he loses. He'll end up being a puppet president. And an unmotivated one at that.

    Parent
    hypocrite. (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by TalkRight on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:50:54 PM EST
    He is such a double talk..

    You can see him talking more "I love America" -- Tells me he thinks he is vulnerable on that note

    You see him talk about Unity (after talking first snipe that Hillary supporters will support him) -- Tells me he fears he has alienated Hillary Clinton supporters.

    In his speech talks more directly to super delegates.. -- Tells me he does feel the last battle will be fought with SD.

    NC results tells me that the Jim Clayburn's divisive talk helped him there..

    Not sure why but the more I see him and hear him, the mOre I hate him... I just can't take his unity shtick -- He can count me out in November.
     give Hillary a boost.. donate

    Parent

    CNN Showed a Poll on that tonight (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:56:06 PM EST
    A very high percentage of Clinton supporters say the will not vote for him.

    I know I won't, and I also know I will not change my mind on that.  I can handle political rhetoric/lying, and even an embellished story or two for effect, but he lied openly, and continues to lie about who he is, the life his had led, the people he owes big favors to, and he refuses to tell us what it is he thinks he is going to change. He's the most negative democratic candidate I can remember.


    Parent

    HRC has unambiguously (none / 0) (#31)
    by litigatormom on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:00 PM EST
    said, time after time, that she will support and campaign for Obama if he is the nominee.

    Obama has never been that unambiguous, not once. He says "I'll work for Democrats," or "we'll come together after the nomination is settled."  Not, "I, Barack Obama, will support Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee."

    Or have I missed that?

    Parent

    You missed nothing (none / 0) (#121)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:50:37 PM EST
    Obama never had any intention on working with Hillary at all.

    I can't wait for him to crash and burn in November.  Honestly, a society get the leadership/government it deserves.  At this point, we deserve McCain because obviously the Dems have learned nothing from 2000 (Gore) and 2004 (Kerry).

    MI and FL will go republican and I will never give a dime to the DNC ever again.  And I know I'm not alone in this.

    Parent

    This is funny (3.00 / 2) (#141)
    by dissenter on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:46 PM EST
    About an hour ago I wrote an email to the DNC on the Brazille comments. The Dem Party just called for my mother. She lives with us. I told them she was no longer part of the party - being blue collar and all - and to never call back.

    I'm not sure if they wanted money or volunteers but they will get neither, or democratic presidential votes, out of this house.

    It felt good

    Parent

    GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! :) (none / 0) (#199)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:09:07 PM EST


    Parent
    I would LOVE (none / 0) (#220)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:14:25 PM EST
    a call like that.  I would have said the exact same thing.  GOOD 4 U!

    Parent
    HRC has unambiguously (none / 0) (#32)
    by litigatormom on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:02 PM EST
    said, time after time, that she will support and campaign for Obama if he is the nominee.

    Obama has never been that unambiguous, not once. He says "I'll work for Democrats," or "we'll come together after the nomination is settled."  Not, "I, Barack Obama, will support Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee."

    Or have I missed that?

    Parent

    Counting today (none / 0) (#63)
    by wasabi on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:38:09 PM EST
    I've heard him say it 3 times.  Is that many?

    Parent
    Said the party would come together? (none / 0) (#113)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:18 PM EST
    How? Magically? Or will he 'work his heart out for the dem nom' like Hillary has passionately stated over and over?

    Parent
    I liked the old days... (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by citizen53 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:08 PM EST
    when a victory speech was not something pre-prepared and delivered by teleprompter.

    It seems artificial.

    It Is Artificial...That's obama In A Word....Look (none / 0) (#235)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:19:40 PM EST
    at him all smiles...didn't look that chipper a few days ago.  I still am not counting Hillary out.

    Parent
    Obama just claimed that he (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by litigatormom on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:41 PM EST
    is now only 200 delegates from the nomination.

    I am assuming that he thinks he will clinch the nomination at 2025.  That number, of course, completely and permanently disenfranchises MI and FLA. If Obama plans to claim a legitimate win, counting FLA and MI, he needs help resolve that issue before he claims victory, or he needs to reach the real magic number, 2209.

    This issue is critical, and has to get out into the MSM, which is still talking about seating MI and FLA as if it is something that can occur after Obama has claimed the nomination with only 2025.  

    He's just tryng to win... (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:41:27 PM EST
    Obama is tired...and doesn't think he can hang in for 12 rounds, so he's saying "if I'm up on points in the 10th round, I am the winner...no point in the counting the other two rounds, 10 is enough"

    Parent
    And a speech (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:00:34 PM EST
    on racism was supposed to shut us all up on the Rev Wright relationship, and a trip to the Chicago Tribune to give them EVERYTHING on Rezko was supposed to stop that topic from being investigated further.

    I do not believe this primary season has been conducted without very questionable bullying tactics, and it was all on Obama's side.

    Parent

    This is his new thing (4.00 / 1) (#45)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:32:15 PM EST
    They have started the delegate countdown.  They have been pushing it on their site apparently and pushing at the media to cover them counting down.  Seems anticlimatic to me, but eh, I'm not voting for the guy, so what do I know.

    Parent
    Big speech (5.00 / 10) (#22)
    by Left of center on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:55 PM EST
    "Now is the time for change, we are going to change the things that need changing while changing the things that change while changing change. Yes we can, yes we can. Yes we can want to change that which is unchanga-YES WE CAN-ble while yes we can, yes we can. We can rebuild this nation, we have the technology, we can make it better, stronger, faster, changeable, yes we can. change change change."

    Movement... Change... (4.83 / 6) (#52)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:34:41 PM EST
    Why does the word "diapers" come to mind?

    Parent
    America is a big baby (none / 0) (#78)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:42:44 PM EST
    and Obama is the nanny?

    Parent
    Or, flush (none / 0) (#167)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:01:31 PM EST


    Parent
    I don't think (none / 0) (#58)
    by BrandingIron on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:36:33 PM EST

    he has enough change in his pocket after that comment.

    Parent
    yawner (none / 0) (#98)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:00 PM EST


    Parent
    He talked about party unity in the fall (5.00 / 11) (#23)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:23:02 PM EST
    Which is nice.

    I just wish I understood why it was necessary for Hillary to be utterly demeaned and smeared in order for Obama and his supporters to win. Why can't people support their favorite candidate without eviscerating a perfectly decent competitor?

    He had to (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by wasabi on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:39:58 PM EST
    The only way he could get the nomination is by tearing down all things Clinton.

    Parent
    The only way he could win was (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:48 PM EST
    by passively aggressively demolishing Bill Clinton.
    He also needed the press to assist this task.  


    Parent
    So, after the demolishing (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:52:21 PM EST
    Do you think he can repair all the bad feelings and pull out a win in the fall?

    I'm beginning to think he can. I think we're looking at President Obama.

    Parent

    No (4.20 / 5) (#134)
    by MichaelGale on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:53:49 PM EST
    If the Democrats do this, I am done.

    Good luck

    Parent

    I don't think he... (none / 0) (#224)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:16:16 PM EST
    ...can repair what he's done on live TV.

    No, not at all. Moderates won't forget those sorts of Stalinesque 90% returns.

    Parent

    it's one of the things i hate about (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:00:30 PM EST
    obama.  clinton is about win-win; she wants to win, sure, but she's not rooting for obama to lose.  obama is completely zero-sum--not only must he win, but he craves and relishes her destruction.  he seriously disgusts me.

    Parent
    Why is the Democratic Party allowing it? (none / 0) (#222)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:15:48 PM EST
    The DNC, and all the democrats in office could put a stop to it just by publicly speaking out.

    But Kennedy, Dean, and Kerry all were presidential hopefuls who couldn't win, do they won't use their seniority to call for investigations where they should be conducted, or the dirty tactics being employed by Obama. They sure aren't going to tolerate both Clinton's getting the presidency when they couldn't have it.


    Parent

    I think to be a game-changer tonight (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by madamab on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:27:00 PM EST
    each candidate would have to perform above expectations. In other words, Obama would have to win both states or HRC would have to win both states.

    Neither has happened. We'll have to see what the margin of victory is in NC for Obama, but there's no way it will be 20 points.

    Again... (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by lilburro on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:28:00 PM EST
    I don't like the role healthcare plays in his speeches.  "Healthcare when you need it."  Some people need it, desperately, now.  Clinton needs to stay in so he's forced to adapt some of her positions.  

    Also, congrats on winning IN, Clinton!  Obama's backyard!  Haven't been hearing that phrase on TV much though...wonder why?  Hmmm.

    Ugh. (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Danbury on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:33:34 PM EST
     I don't think I can watch four months, let alone four years, of Barack Obama. He's too smug for me. What a fraud.  Dems have bought a good load of snake oil on this one.

    Don't Worry (5.00 / 7) (#53)
    by BDB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:35:05 PM EST
    You won't have to watch four years.

    Parent
    Not dems... (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:18 PM EST
    he got here on the backs of Republicans for a day and latte-libertarians...

    Parent
    Yes indeed! Agree to disagree! (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by felizarte on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:13 PM EST
    He sounds insincere; false humility is the worst kind of arrogance.

    Parent
    Yep...humble and sincere (5.00 / 7) (#87)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:17 PM EST
    like Dubya...

    Parent
    Not to mention, he's a uniter not a divider. (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:53:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Both seem to me to be (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:55:13 PM EST
    petulant too

    Parent
    wonderful speech (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:34:27 PM EST
    Good for him.  He looks and sounds presidential.

    of course... (none / 0) (#66)
    by americanincanada on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:39:07 PM EST
    he stole quite a lot of that speech from her stump speech.

    Parent
    CoOpt (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:29 PM EST
    and overcome.

    Parent
    That's how he's gotten all his policies (none / 0) (#205)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:10:36 PM EST
    as well.

    This is exactly why he refused to debate in NC, too.

    Parent

    Craig Crawford said (5.00 / 6) (#51)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:34:30 PM EST
    that he has spoken to SDs who believe that even if Obama loses the election, it will still be good for Democrats, because he is the future of the Democratic Party.

    Excuse me? There are SDs who have actually said out loud that it's okay if Obama loses? And their view of the Democratic Party of the future is based on a losing presidential election! I am dumbfounded, perhaps he misspoke, but I'm having such a hard time imagining it to be true.

    yes, the party must be taken away from the (5.00 / 8) (#56)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:36:07 PM EST
    Clintons ... at ANY COST.

    Parent
    I believe it (5.00 / 4) (#64)
    by otherlisa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:38:23 PM EST
    Fits in only too well with what we know to be true - that Obama's chances of winning the general election are not very good.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 5) (#72)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:41:16 PM EST
    They underestimate the extent to which a bad loss would be demoralizing for the party.  It's not as though McGovern's voters became the base of a decades-long Democratic majority.

    If Obama wins in November, awesome.  If he doesn't, the bloodletting will be like nothing in my memory.

    Parent

    What I don't understand is (5.00 / 0) (#248)
    by Nadai on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:25:27 PM EST
    if Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, etc. all back the man who loses, after 8 years of Bush for the love of God, how can they believe that they'll be the ones to survive the bloodbath instead of the Clintons?  Did they all get really good fortunes the last time they went out for Chinese food?

    Parent
    After 7 1/2 (none / 0) (#204)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:10:22 PM EST
    years of Bush, I didn't think I could be any more demoralized.

    Parent
    I imagine they've seen that big pile (5.00 / 8) (#79)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:01 PM EST
    of money he's raised this cycle.  Personally, I think it's the end of the democratic party as we've known it.  If he's the empty suited future of the democrats, they deserve to lose for a generation.


    Parent
    Only Democrats would see a loss as a (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by tigercourse on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:34 PM EST
    victory. I wouldn't want to be on the DNC's softball team.

    Parent
    Why not (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:43 PM EST
    0-10 and still get trophies?! come-on! Everyone wants honorable mention
    /snark

    Parent
    T-Ball... (none / 0) (#219)
    by white n az on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:13:45 PM EST
    everybody gets a trophy

    Parent
    HE is the future?? (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:47 PM EST
    The deification continues. And these are professional politicians? They know that if he loses in the fall he has no future. If he goes down with McGovern numbers the party may have no future.

    Parent
    Well, great. (5.00 / 5) (#100)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:33 PM EST
    No wonder we keep losing.

    Parent
    Good for the (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:45 PM EST
    politicians of the Dem party.  Voters will flail around trying to find a platform.  Both parties have imploded at the same time.  There is nothing better for them.  Who are you going to vote for?  Won't matter.  One big clusterf^ck of govt where policy and the people are thrown under the bus.

    The elite conservatives have the Repub party, the elite liberals have the Dem party.... looks like it's politics as usual to me.  The working class get shoved aside again. sigh.  I was hoping that this time around, the average every day person would actually get a voice.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:48:40 PM EST
    I see that comment all the time on the Obama blogs - "I'd rather lose with Obama than win with Hillary."

    Parent
    Yeah, (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Iphie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:04:13 PM EST
    but I assumed that amongst the party elders, cooler heads would prevail -- that after everything is said and done, they want to win.

    I sent an email to Craig Crawford asking if I heard him correctly, and if I did, are those SDs willing to go on the record with such statements? I know they're not, but if it's true that seems to me to be a story that needs a great deal more coverage.

    Parent

    It would depend on the next batch of candidates, (none / 0) (#74)
    by lilburro on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:41:30 PM EST
    no?  We've seen the blogosphere degenerate from issues to rationalizing every little thing Obama does.  I assume they're talking about young voters?  Whatever.  I don't buy it at all, except in the context of don't p#ss off the people that voted for Obama.  That I can buy and it does seem reasonable.  But let's keep voting.

    Parent
    For decades young voters (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:00 PM EST
    show up for rallies, wear t-shirts and bumper stickers, hold meetings at student unions, and show up for MTV...but...BUT...they don't show up in November...

    This is true for both parties! the vaunted College Republicans really is a proving ground for the Roves, Norquists, Reeds, etc...not for mobilizing young people...we need to remember that...young people are great to have in your camp...but unreliable as a voting block...

    Parent

    why be scared of pissing them off? (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:53:06 PM EST
    1. the young people probably won't vote in huge #s anyway

    2. the "wine-track" block is pissed off at everything anyway

    3. 70% of them say they'll vote for HRC anyway?

    What are people afraid of?!

    Parent
    Also, give them four more years and they'll have (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:55:24 PM EST
    more sense. Well, I don't know. That didn't work for Donna Brazille.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#97)
    by lambert on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:45:18 PM EST
    The "create our own reality" thing worked when we had the resources. Now we don't.

    Parent
    What do you mean about resources? (none / 0) (#189)
    by lilburro on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:05:03 PM EST
    My connection to this whole mess is believing strongly in Democratic ideals since I was a teen, then taking a job canvassing for 3 months for the DNC.  The canvassing was a good experience.  Really difficult though and not always fun...because it was all about raising the $$$!!!  I was canvassing for the 50 State Strategy in PA.  The netroots had no impact upon my work.  Maybe it had an impact upon the people I canvassed when I wasn't there, but for the most part I think it is Democratic ideas and platforms that have that impact.  And people basically know what those are.  The Brand.  But this was for the Congressional Elections in 2006.

    I wonder if the rather blah performance of the new Dem Congress will affect Obama's chances.  In some way, it seems like it's the reason he has adopted his style - to distance himself from the Congress of which he is a part.  But he's distanced himself from more than that Congress.  He's distanced himself from the Dem platform.  We have to take the number of Dems that say they won't vote for him more seriously.  Think about it - John McCain has been blah blahing about his "healthcare plan" which I'm sure is a squiggly on a piece of toilet paper.  But does Obama step up with something more tangible than that?  IMO, he does not.  Obama more or less attacks Congress now.  Do we think John McCain won't?  And that he won't have more leverage and more authority now that Congress is a Dem majority?  Argh!!  

    Often it just seems that with this election people are playing a game of Risk online.  Tell me again how we're going to conquer this state and that state in...6 months?  

    We'll see what happens, but Dem tunnel vision is still an issue.

    Parent

    Right now there's only (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:37:48 PM EST
    a 12% spread in NC.

    She lost Buncombe and Watauga counties (none / 0) (#71)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:40:14 PM EST
    Which is unbelievable. Most of his vote is in but I don't think she can pick up much more than 2-3 points. The spin has already been done though on TV when it was at +30 point lead

    Parent
    Both Buncombe and Watauga counties (none / 0) (#149)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:56:36 PM EST
    have universities. The students are all fired up for Obama.

    Parent
    Both Buncombe and Watauga county (none / 0) (#151)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:57:02 PM EST
    have universities. The students are all fired up for Obama.

    Parent
    can't watch him either (5.00 / 7) (#68)
    by karen for Clinton on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:39:45 PM EST
    Last year I checked him out.

    By early January I decided on Hillary but figured I could hold my nose and vote for him.

    By mid January I wasn't sure what to do if he won I hated the idea of sitting it out and refuse to vote for McCain.

    By end January there was no doubt I didn't want to vote for him.

    Since then, no way no how, not ever, even if it means McCain will win, he will win in a landslide against Obama anyway so my vote wouldn't help.

    And the party doesn't deserve my vote anymore.

    32 years, hundreds of votes and this is the first time I have been not proud to be a democrat.

    Wait till I see the latest Brazille meltdown, they will lose me even more.

    Third party anyone?

    I believe (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by nell on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:50 PM EST
    Brazille had a slight meltdown on CNN tonight when Campbell Brown called her out on her "undeclared superdelegate" status and said you sound pretty decided to me, would you care to share? And Donna got mad and said I am undeclared, not undecided! How dishonest of Donna.

    And I feel no obligation to vote for Obama in November. Michelle Obama said she may or may not support Clinton in November depending on her "tone," and if the wife of the candidate can say that, then I can too. And I cannot stand his tone, I just cannot stand it. So, just like Michelle feels no obligation to support Clinton, I feel no obligation to support Obama. Too bad, so sad. Win without me. I don't care for him and as of late, I don't care too much for the Dem party.

    Parent

    and michelle and i (none / 0) (#120)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:50:35 PM EST
    will both feel much relieved when McCain gets rid of the AMT tax.  After all, it is all about us right?  lol

    I win either way.  I get a financial windfall with McCain and sensible policy with dems.  Your vote is irrelevant to me.  Now as for the seniors, the military, single parents, unemployed folks, and the environment, well they probably would prefer the sensible choice.  I can wait 4 years, especially with that awesome tax break that is so close i can taste it.

    Parent

    Which one McCains or Obama's $1,000 (none / 0) (#156)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:58:06 PM EST


    Parent
    Third Party or for Nov a major (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:07:18 PM EST
    write in campaign for Hillary  ;)

    After all, the Dem Party doesn't need us . . .

    Parent

    bittnerness (none / 0) (#92)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:41 PM EST
    no need to be bitter, after all the last 8 years have been so great for the middle class, the military, the economy, the elderly, foreign policy, oil companies.  You convinced me, I am definitely going to vote for the party that has made this country what it is today.

    Lol

    Parent

    Yeah, (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:58:01 PM EST
    I'm going to vote for the party that stood up to and fought against the majority party (the successes of all of those filibusters, blocked votes dance in my head) and then managed to get in to power, bring back accountability and turn things around.

    If you follow your own advice, you're voting independent. LOL

    Parent

    well the dem (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:00:36 PM EST
    senate has been an embarassment.

    Parent
    I'm Independent now (none / 0) (#128)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:52:17 PM EST
    but 3rd party would be OK for another election.  This time around I've got to go GOP because I can't stand Obama.


    Parent
    thanks for your donation (none / 0) (#136)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:13 PM EST


    Parent
    I won't lose money from it either (none / 0) (#187)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:04:43 PM EST
    so it's no skin off my nose, ace.  At least I can stand John McCain.

    Parent
    Right now... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:18 PM EST
    Hillary's lead in IN is 39,000 votes. It's been gradually declining, with a few upbursts now and then (it was 37,000 a few minutes ago). It's getting kind of scary.

    Obama's lead in NC is at 146,000 right now. It's been as high as 158,000 or so.

    Obama ahead in total popular vote by 107,000.

    Clearly Hillary needs the ability to say she won Indiana, though I'd like to hold the total popular vote margin where it is now. She got about a 200,000 vote boost in PA; it'd be important to keep a fair chunk of that.

    I think Hillary will win (none / 0) (#119)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:55 PM EST
    But with Lake county still out I'd bet money that you're looking at less than a 2% margin.

    Parent
    sorry to cross-post (5.00 / 11) (#111)
    by Kathy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:48:55 PM EST
    this got cut off in another thread:

    STOP THE MOPE, fellow Clinton supporters!  Obama was slated to win both IN and NC a month ago.  CLINTON WILL TAKE AWAY HIS WIN.  Let me repeat: she was projected to lose both IN and NC.  Go back and look at the Obama spreadsheet.  Indiana has him up by 12!

    And NC isn't over by a long-shot.  There are still votes to count, no matter what CNN wants to tell us.  These are the f*ckers who sold us Bush and the war!  Why are we listening to them now???

    Clinton should not step down.  She should not concede.  She was supposed to lose both of these contests as of polling from two weeks ago.  Why are you guys sad-sacking now?  For the love of peeps, nothing has changed.  All these races do is tell us that there need to be more races.  When Obama was behind in polls and edged into the lead, it was all about how he had the momentum, etc.  All the soon to be win in IN and tightening in NC tell me is that she is getting the edge.

    Why on earth would you count her out now?  What has drastically changed, other than the racial demographics have gotten even more polarized?  (for the worse, and I don't mean worse for Clinton)

    Clinton isn't giving up and neither am I.  Stop your moping!  Our girl needs us now.

    It's the AA Vote (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:51:13 PM EST
    idiots can see he's likely to lose white voters by huge margins yet they blithely ignore how much damage Wright has done.

    Parent
    I'm not moping (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:04:40 PM EST
    I was waiting for something a little different from tonight.... there is a swing to Clinton.  I wanted to see a bigger swing.  Obama just looks worse than ever.

    The only thing bad about tonight is waht commentors are covering from the media.  Me, I'm watching Stargate.  I still want to see a transcript of Brazile.  Oh, and the odd comments by some Obama supporters.  That's off too.  They seem as angry as ever.

    Parent

    I ain't moping (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:51:19 PM EST
    She's winning Indiana and Obama's lead in NC just got thinner.

    Parent
    My girl Tracy (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by Kathy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:55:44 PM EST
    I know you're not moping.  We're still pulling for our girl.  No more sad-sacking, y'all.  NOTHING has changed.  One win cancels the other, at best.  We move on and we keep winning.  I've got a Newsweek right here that says the worst case scenario is that Clinton gets IN and Obama gets NC, because that means they move on.  Well, it's not a worse case scenario for me, because we keep moving on, we keep making phone calls and doing our thing and supporting our candidate--the only true democrat left in the race.

    Parent
    Kathy, thanks we need to hear that! (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:36 PM EST
    You're right we are, needlessly, moping big time.

    Parent
    I love your optimism! (5.00 / 3) (#139)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:38 PM EST


    Parent
    You are right!!! (5.00 / 5) (#150)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:57:02 PM EST
    No moping!!!  Hillary isn't moping, that's for sure!

    I'm lighting white candle to her because she is the best candidate, even if people want to deny it.

    Thank you for your uplifting post.

    ~sniff~  Thank you, thank you.

    Parent

    Sing it sister! (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:00:33 PM EST
    Stop buying the media narrative people -- she didn't have to "win" NC; she didn't have to even keep it close (not with 91% AAs going to Obama) -- no matter what anyone says, Obama cannot win the GE like this and after she gets WV, KY, PR & Oregon (yes, I'm counting it in her column) and FL & MI are seated -- then we will be able to decide who "won." And not one moment before then.  

    Parent
    I'm With You...Some Of Our Fellow TalkLefters (none / 0) (#244)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:24:17 PM EST
    were beginning to scare me...felt like they thought Hillary was dead and buried.  As the msm
    likes to say, Hillary lives to fight another day.

    Parent
    If you check her websites blog (none / 0) (#259)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:35:36 PM EST
    the open thread there shows some pretty strong support :)  Looks like a lot of folks aren't giving up.

    Parent
    What's really hard for me (5.00 / 5) (#130)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:52:28 PM EST
    Is that I won't even have a candidate in the GE that I can hold my nose and vote for.  How sad is that?

    I will not have presidential representation for the next 4 years.

    I can't vote for people who think entire chunks of the Democrats can be thrown out of the party, people who think my issues can be thrown out, not to mention the atrocious sexism.

    It's just plain sad.  Oh well, maybe in 4 years we'll have a real candidate.

    I can't hold my nose anymore (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:46 PM EST
    Tired of holding my nose...  I held it for Gore (well, not too much) and definiately for Kerry (I was really supporting Edwards).

    No, I can't hold my nose anymore. ~sigh~

    Parent

    NC will end up being 9points difference (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:56:10 PM EST
    the margin in NC is now under 12
    I thought Obama was going to win Indian by 12

    Obama projected (none / 0) (#212)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:11:56 PM EST
    Indiana by 7.  I don't get how losing by what looks like it might be 4 is good.  The media will ignore something as small as a 11 pt swing. pffft.

    Rove is talking about Obama's language.  Finds his 'you can make it if you try' language to be quite appealing to conservatives.

    I myself have noticed Obama's 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' language and I thought... cough, cough, Repub, cough, cough.

    Parent

    I know I should be prepared for this by now (5.00 / 4) (#154)
    by ChrisO on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:57:53 PM EST
    but I have to say I was stunned at the way all of the pundits focuzsed on N. Carolina, as if her losing there has put the final nail in the coffin of her campaign. Was anyone saying an NC loss would end it for her, even as recently as yesterday? It's as if the Indiana result will mean nothing, no matter what the margin of victory

    I get the delegate math, but that hasn't changed tonight, so it's not as though North Carolina represents some kind of sea change. It seems the press had their fun with Wright, and now they're over it and scrambling to get back on the bandwagon. It's all back - the sarcasm, the demeaning comments, David Gregory saying "you can't change the rules" regarding MI and FL. It's like the last month never happpened.

    Obama supporters like to counter claims of media bias against Hillary by pointing out how much piling on was done around the Wright controversy. Fair point, but they're missing the obvious point. As soon as the press started turning on Obama, what happened? He started losing primaries. But these people are so delusional they think that getting rid of Hillary cures all of Obama's ills.

    Thank God the Red Sox were on tonight, and the Celtics are on now.

    Lanny Davis (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by TalkRight on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:00:12 PM EST
    was good on CNN.. but CNN panel is horrible !!! They should really do some thing about it..

    they are trying to pull Lanny's leg.. (none / 0) (#168)
    by TalkRight on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:01:41 PM EST
    what's up with these news analysts.. I did not see them pulling Jamal's legs last time when Obama lost PA. They were sympathizing with Obama..

    Parent
    Jamal is the worst (none / 0) (#263)
    by ChrisO on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:45:09 PM EST
    I know they're all in the tank, hbut it's like having Axelrod on. He talks like he's part of the Obama campaign.

    Parent
    Whoa (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:02:09 PM EST
    Never thought this say this, but Anderson Cooper is kind of a D&*k.  

    what happened? i gave away my tv. n/t (none / 0) (#238)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:21:42 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh boy (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by janarchy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:19 PM EST
    I was watching a rerun of "Quantum Leap" and now have turned on a new Stephen Fry show on local PBS. I don't need to listen to Obama speechify some more. He bores me to tears and I don't need the gloat or the smirk. yawn

    If he's the nominee.... (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:07:22 PM EST
    ...I don't think I'll be able to watch the convention for the first time in my adult life.

    Parent
    That's okay (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:10:48 PM EST
    The convention isn't for us anyway.  It's for the "new" Democratic party.

    Parent
    too bad (none / 0) (#210)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:11:20 PM EST
    I hope Hillary is on stage with him and not home sulking with you.

    Parent
    Why do you have to make this personal? (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:12:42 PM EST
    I'm just saying what I think. It's still allowed.

    Parent
    for how long ? (none / 0) (#231)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:17:55 PM EST
    Not long.

    Parent
    because sulking is what it is (none / 0) (#243)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:23:56 PM EST
    I am just saying what i think.

    As if the "threats" are supposed to scare whom?

    Clearly the biblical tenet of reaping what one sows is apropos for this country.  It voted for Bush and got the many benefits of his policies.  If it votes for McCain it has to live with his policies.

    So, consistent with many of hillary supporters on this site, your 50% is smarter than our 50%.

    Blah blah blah.  Please, vote McCain the AMT tax is killing me and i would be delighted to have more of my money.

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#218)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:13:32 PM EST
    the stereotype is true

    Parent
    too bad (none / 0) (#192)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:05:44 PM EST
    you are missing a great moment in our history.  I will tivo it and in 10 years if you want it, send me a note.

    Parent
    Obama just said - (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by Josey on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:09:26 PM EST
    "when this campaign began, Washington didn't give us much of a chance" - OMG!!
    Washington has supported him from the gitgo!!

    Obama is the only candidate to say that Bush and Cheney have not committed impeachable offenses!  Does this sound like a "Washington outsider" to you?? - or a Bush Republican.

    USAToday - Obama: Impeachment is not acceptable
    "I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breaches, and intentional breaches of the president's authority," he said.

    "I believe if we began impeachment proceedings we will be engulfed in more of the politics that has made Washington dysfunction," he added. "We would once again, rather than attending to the people's business, be engaged in a tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, non-stop circus."

    when are we going to hear from Hillary....? (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:11:52 PM EST
    I want to hear from her. She should rest for a few days,after tonight and get her groove back.

    Obama didn't shut her out. I feel good. NEXT contest?

    Oregon

    I think that (none / 0) (#226)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:16:27 PM EST
    Gary is holding up her speech.

    Parent
    Laporte is comming in for Clinton so far (none / 0) (#232)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:18:55 PM EST
    that's good news for her. I don't think Gary will turn this. Push it another point or so.

    Parent
    Fox says something fishy in Garyis go (none / 0) (#239)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:21:55 PM EST
    is going on, that it said it won't have results 'til midnight -- that it's owing to some late surprise of an exorbitant number of absentee ballots . . . and a commentator who seems to know a bit of Gary history says there may be enough votes found to give IN to Obama.  But at the least, it's keeping her from giving a victory speech until after prime time.

    Parent
    Obama will win Oregon (none / 0) (#227)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:16:40 PM EST
    bet on it.

    Parent
    Not if the demographics (none / 0) (#258)
    by Lena on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:35:06 PM EST
    in Oregon follow NC

    Parent
    Big fat phony. (3.66 / 3) (#25)
    by Cal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:19 PM EST
    Every word coming from his mouth.  

    be fair, big skinny phony (4.55 / 9) (#44)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:32:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Like being FAT is bad (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:42:20 PM EST
    playing the weight card huh?

    Parent
    First time commenter, Long time lurker (1.00 / 7) (#230)
    by gilbert23b on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:17:15 PM EST
    As a white male liberal, I want to congratulate all of you for protecting america against the menace of a democratic black nominee for President who you "just know" can't win.

    Oh, let's nuke Iran too - go Hillary!

    Frankly... (5.00 / 3) (#233)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:19:12 PM EST
    ... you probably should have kept lurking.

    Parent
    That's the Unity spirit! (5.00 / 2) (#241)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:22:45 PM EST
    when I don't reply to one of your posts again, just write that in for me, 'kay?

    Parent
    I can't watch him (none / 0) (#1)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:17:12 PM EST
    Magic Schoolbus is currently in play at my house.

    Me either. I'm watching Hell's Kitchen and... (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:37 PM EST
    ..Dancing with the Stars. I have to be honest with myself. I simply do not like him.

    Parent
    I simply do not like him. (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Cal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:39 PM EST
    Me, too.  

    Parent
    I absolutely detest him! (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:10 PM EST


    Parent
    So do I! (5.00 / 5) (#169)
    by k on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    And what is up with that? I've been stomping around the back yard arguing with myself...my neighbors must think I am nuts...but I can honestly say that I have never disliked a Democrat this much.

    The argument I'm having with myself is...if Obama is the nominee should I stay or should I go. I honestly don't think I can stay with the Democratic party if he wins...but then again, oh well. Blah, Blah, Blah. The fight with myself continues.

    Parent

    It's visceral! (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:15:54 PM EST
    I have exactly the same reaction to Obama that I have to Bush.  To me they are 2 sides of the same arrogant inexperience card.  Obama seems to have an extraordinary sense of his own entitlement.

    I am not arguing with myself, if Obama is the nominee I'll not only vote for McCain but I'll donate and campaign for him!


    Parent

    If he's the nominee (3.00 / 2) (#101)
    by felizarte on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:42 PM EST
    my vote goes to McCain.

    Parent
    I think that's a really big mistake. I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by tigercourse on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:50:56 PM EST
    your politics, but McCain would be some kind of continuation of the ruinous policies of the Bush administration. I don't think Obama will be a very good President, but I know McCain will be a bad one.

    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#159)
    by Virginian on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:59:21 PM EST
    I won't vote for McCain simply because he has an -R- next to his name...but I don't think he'd be a continuation of Bush...

    If I had to make a choice between McCain or Bush...it is a no-brainer...

    Parent

    The cooking channel (none / 0) (#84)
    by vigkat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:55 PM EST
    But not closely.  I just could not watch the speech.  I feel like I did in 2000, i.e., this can't be good because it feels perilous.

    Parent
    I'm watching Hell's Kitchen too! (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:28:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Deadliest Catch (none / 0) (#152)
    by creeper on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:57:30 PM EST
    I can't believe I'm watching reality TV.  

    But checking in here frequently for more results.

    Parent

    Oddly ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by lyzurgyk on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:20:15 PM EST
    ... not too many black faces in that crowd.    None behind him.

    What's up with that?  

    Good point... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:13 PM EST
    they just vote, but remember, he never wants to be the black candidate.  

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:01 PM EST
    What a sham!!!!

    Wins on the back of 93% and can't be seen with even one AA.

    Maybe his ex-pastor will have something to say about how he's ridin' his base sometime soon.


    Parent

    Half of his NC vote came from black Americans ... (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by lyzurgyk on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:47:07 PM EST

    ... and Obama wouldn't allow one black supporter to be seen behind him for his victory speech.

    That's very wrong.   Talk about pander.

    Parent

    Obama didn't visit AA neighborhoods (none / 0) (#39)
    by Prabhata on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:28:40 PM EST


    Parent
    Say What? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Spike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:36:54 PM EST
    What is an AA?

    Parent
    AA African American (none / 0) (#91)
    by Sunshine on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:44:36 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Spike on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:53:28 PM EST
    Do African Americans call themselves AAs or is this something white folks call them on line?

    Parent
    Are you new to the Internet? (none / 0) (#146)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:55:54 PM EST
    It's an abbreviation.  Plenty of black folks use it online.

    Parent
    They call us gays (none / 0) (#153)
    by just victory on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:57:32 PM EST
    LGBT. I don't have a problem with it. It's an abbreviation.

    Parent
    You know, (none / 0) (#157)
    by Esme on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:58:09 PM EST
    it's just one of those racist things us "typical white people" have come up with.

    Parent
    this thread here is a sad a spectacle (1.00 / 0) (#237)
    by dem08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:21:22 PM EST
    You are implying Obama is running on racism with no evidence except your own testimony that Obama shuns black people. Based on what? A television shot?

    Obama is carrying over 90% of the black vote but is eschewing black people?

    Is that really a worthy charge?

    I like Talk Left's Crime Politics, but the comments here in this thread are sad.

    I understand your despair that Hillary is losing, but these  comments on your perception of Obama's  racial politics are depressing.

    Parent

    all successful (5.00 / 0) (#250)
    by sancho on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:26:48 PM EST
    campaigns for the president in america depend on manipulating "racism." i dont think obama's "racism" play will work in the ge. i think it will lose to mccain's "racism" play. but we'll see.

    Parent
    catch up with the archives, (none / 0) (#242)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:23:43 PM EST
    and then you'll understand.

    Parent
    if I read the Archives (none / 0) (#257)
    by dem08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:34:11 PM EST
    I will understand that Obama is a racist?

    I doubt it. I do not think Jeralyn or Big Tent believe that.

    Parent

    I'm not implying anything. (none / 0) (#264)
    by lyzurgyk on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:48:45 PM EST
    I'm asking why there weren't any blacks in the picture on that podium behind him when half his support in NC was from AA.   Campaigns carefully set these backdrops up, you know.

    I think it's embarrassing and pitiful.

    Parent

    they have talked about this (none / 0) (#13)
    by bjorn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:21:45 PM EST
    before, they do it on purpose.

    Parent
    All white women (none / 0) (#21)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:47 PM EST
    behind him.  

    Parent
    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:24:33 PM EST
    Just a tad ironic, no?

    Parent
    they just said it on CNN (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:38:26 PM EST
    how obvious

    Parent
    Are they over 60? (none / 0) (#172)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:02:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Don't be silly (none / 0) (#252)
    by Nadai on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:28:31 PM EST
    Women over 60 are invisible.  What kind of backdrop would that be?

    Parent
    Oh that's right. Good point. (none / 0) (#262)
    by derridog on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:41:46 PM EST


    Parent
    always choreographed that way (none / 0) (#180)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:45 PM EST


    Parent
    always choreographed that way (none / 0) (#183)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:04:00 PM EST


    Parent
    What's up with Gary IN? (none / 0) (#17)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:22:26 PM EST
    Polls closed for over 3 hours and not a single vote reported.

    Obama says"apparent" win. Does he know something we don't?

    Can't watch (none / 0) (#33)
    by Sunshine on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:34 PM EST
    Animal Planet is not too good tonite, they have a segment on about snakes...

    Sunshine...obama, snakes, one in the same (none / 0) (#253)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:29:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Can't watch (none / 0) (#34)
    by Sunshine on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:25:49 PM EST
    Animal Planet is not too good tonite, they have a segment on about snakes...

    52-48 in IN now (none / 0) (#41)
    by magster on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:29:06 PM EST
    and still no Gary IN
    Indiana tightening up (none / 0) (#42)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:29:27 PM EST
    Within 4 now. Yikes.

    trunout (none / 0) (#43)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:30:23 PM EST
    it looks like more votes will be cast in the dem primary than Kerry got in the GE in 2004

    in 2004, Kerry got 162K votes in Marion county (indianapolis). with 73% of the precincts reporting, there have been 123K votes cast in Marion county.

    In St. Josephs (south bend), Kerry got 52.6K. with 100% of precincts reporting 62.3K votes were cast.

    In Randolph county, Kerry got 3800.  With 100% reporting 46K votes have been counted.

    In Allen (fort wayne), Kerry got 46.7K   100% reporting, 62.5K counted

    On Fox, Obama has (none / 0) (#48)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:33:56 PM EST
    one AA person in the crowd behind him. No other POC either.

    Hillary down by 12 (none / 0) (#55)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:35:50 PM EST
    Here

    I think these are newer than the TV results

    what's the percentage that has voted? (none / 0) (#61)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:37:17 PM EST
    OMG, Hillary has to win IN!

    I know you hate MSNBC (none / 0) (#76)
    by andreww on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:42:19 PM EST
    but according to chuck todd there is likely about 350,000 votes still out.  Obama needs 55% to tie it.  Then says Obama's people think they'll fall about 10k to 15k short.  We'll see......

    Wow. (none / 0) (#109)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:48:21 PM EST
    That would be something. The tiebreaker winds within a 1% margin. That would be fitting.

    Parent
    Yea! (none / 0) (#82)
    by CST on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:43:43 PM EST
    Go Celtics!

    Changed to another channel when he was (none / 0) (#95)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:45:00 PM EST
    expected to step out any minute.  I'm watching Glen Beck for the first time in my life. He's going through a list of things Michelle Obama has said and is loudly asking what in the world the democrats are thinking.  It's kind of comical.

    I keep checking back, though, to see if Hillary is getting ready to speak.

    Everyone notice that she and her campaign all day today have been stating 2209 delegates required to win?

    Magster, what's the speculation (none / 0) (#96)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:45:17 PM EST
    on Gary, IN?

    Fox is calling Obama's speech a dog (none / 0) (#99)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:15 PM EST
    whistle to the SuperDels

    the end of it was very good (none / 0) (#135)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:53:56 PM EST
    And Michelle looked radiant. Even Britt Hume was impressed. What Fox are you watching?

    Parent
    I thought Obama got overzealous (none / 0) (#160)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:00:08 PM EST
    and seemed to be ranting quite a bit toward the end. Then he reeled it back in and presented some emotion. But he nearly flubbed the line about his father's "flag-draped coffin". Over the top, imo, and the party unity pap is way late.

    Parent
    Standard Fox News (none / 0) (#188)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:04:54 PM EST
    Karl Rove has been off and on the screen, giving out advise to the Democratic campaigns.  It is sort of eerie and creepy.

    Parent
    She's gorgeous (none / 0) (#197)
    by Dr Molly on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:07:26 PM EST
    I saw an interview with her recently and she is truly beautiful. He's a lucky guy.

    Parent
    Well I'm watching CSPAn @ 9:46 pm (none / 0) (#105)
    by dutchfox on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:47:03 PM EST
    Well, actually listening on line. I'm in the middle of cooking Vermont fiddleheads with wild leeks! Trying it in a quiche! :P

    Obama leading in NC by 14 pts now (none / 0) (#114)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:49:19 PM EST


    NC... (none / 0) (#176)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:03 PM EST
    the state is reporting that its 55-43... so why doesn't CNN have the numbers that the state already has?

    Parent
    i don't trust CNN. they withhold and suppress (none / 0) (#217)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:13:11 PM EST
    facts that are favorable to clinton.  what i've learned this season is that you have to double-check everything.  it's a huge pain in the *ss.

    Parent
    They will not report til after midnight (none / 0) (#251)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:28:03 PM EST
    so that everyone will miss it and the "story" will be Obama's surprise victory in NC.

    Parent
    Win % not known yet (none / 0) (#221)
    by wasabi on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:15:26 PM EST
    Only 73% of the precincts have been counted.

    Parent
    Just to warn you... (none / 0) (#142)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:55:11 PM EST
    Hillary at 51.6% in IN now. A few ticks lower and CNN will round to 51-49. Not a big change, but of course the trend isn't helpful.

    AA turnout /exit polls in indiana (none / 0) (#158)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:59:09 PM EST
    based on some quick spreadsheeting...

    in 2004, AA's were 7% of the Indiana electorate, or about 172.6K
    according to the exit polls, AA make up 15% of the primary electorate, or about 187.4K voters.

    92% of whom voted for Obama.  
    and about 2/3 of black voters said that race was not a factor.  They gave Obama 93% of their vote.

    7/8 of white voters said race was not a factor.  They split for Clinton 57-43

    Hillary (none / 0) (#166)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:01:25 PM EST
    needs to concede tonight if she does not win In by at least 7%

    Right because he was supposed to Win IN (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:02:47 PM EST
    And he lost, and he was supposed to win NC by 20+, and he won by under 10 probably. Exactly why she should concede...

    In Bizarro world.

    Parent

    Actually Obama's people said that Obama (5.00 / 4) (#179)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:03:45 PM EST
    needed to win IN---it was a "must win" state not two weeks ago.

    Parent
    that is a great idea (1.00 / 2) (#202)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:09:40 PM EST
    Let's rename a state Bizarroland, maybe the sanfrancisco area?  If Obama suggests that, maybe he can get some of Limbaughs listeners in November like Hillary got tonite.

    Parent
    I think your comment makes the least (none / 0) (#208)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:11:05 PM EST
    sense of any today---and there have been some strange ones. Good bye.
    Obama's camp said IN was a must win. He lost.

    Parent
    do you have any (none / 0) (#214)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:12:25 PM EST
    grey poupon?

    Parent
    Obama had (none / 0) (#246)
    by waldenpond on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:24:52 PM EST
    a win tonight.  Obama's supporters always get angry when he wins and when he loses.  Walk away, just walk away.  :)

    Parent
    aa's (none / 0) (#175)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:02:53 PM EST
    tell me, what other demographic has been more loyal to the democratic party in the last 30 years?  

    None.  Zip.  Zero.  Nada.  

    What about women? (none / 0) (#261)
    by Boston Boomer on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:39:58 PM EST
    Haven't we been loyal Democrats?  And there are more of us in the Party than AA's or men.


    Parent
    True, but blacks break 8-2 (none / 0) (#265)
    by dem08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:49:50 PM EST
    at a minimum Democratic. I think it was more like 92-8 out of 100 for Senator Kerry.

    There are some women who vote Republican, I believe. At the minimum, the Republicans many Female Senators probably vote Republican.

    Parent

    The margin in NC has been pretty stable now. (none / 0) (#186)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:04:42 PM EST
    If that continues, and they split the remaining vote down the middle, it will be about 9-10%, as someone said upstream.

    If that continues, of course.

    Pins and needles for Indiana. Who knows what will happen in Lake County?

    Of course... (none / 0) (#193)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:06:29 PM EST
    ... as I write that, the margin jumps up to 172K in NC.

    Parent
    Narius, check this: (none / 0) (#190)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:05:07 PM EST
    NC State Board of Elections - spread is now 12% with 41 of 100 counties reporting.

    You're right... (none / 0) (#203)
    by OrangeFur on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:09:59 PM EST
    ... they're ahead of CNN. The NYT is stuck sometime in the previous century.

    Parent
    Unfortunately, I believe Hillary is done. (none / 0) (#200)
    by Buckeye on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:09:13 PM EST
    Her fundraising is going to start drying up and the media is now going to use NC as another excuse to pump up their golden boy.  The supers are going to start getting serious pressure to publically support Obama.  Unless a monumental blunder is committed by Obama, this is basically done.  I wonder if our new President's health will hold up for 4 years.  Our new President will be 72 when he takes the oath of office.

    Hasta La Vista Hillary.  You did your best.

    hate to agree, but (none / 0) (#213)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:12:15 PM EST
    she needs to go out while holding the moral high ground and get ready to kick some ass in 2012.

    It's over, there is no metric to point to anymore with the NC blowout.

    Parent

    McCain's fundraising is going to go way up. (none / 0) (#225)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:16:27 PM EST


    Parent
    "If my aunt (none / 0) (#206)
    by sarissa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:10:42 PM EST
    had a male appendage, she'd be my uncle."

    Lol, nice :)

    hmmmm (none / 0) (#216)
    by CanadianDem on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:12:47 PM EST
    I dont belive it, only a 4 point win in Indiana and 16 point loss in NC, fix is in. But how does she justify this?

    Was really hoping for a bigger win for (none / 0) (#229)
    by Anne on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:16:48 PM EST
    Hillary in Indiana, and I guess we're still not 100% sure she has won it, which makes me feel even worse.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not sure I can take much more of this edge-of-my-seat primary combat, and I know I cannot, will not, listen to these so-called pundits and anchors who seem to believe they have been anointed with the holy oil of wisdom.  News flash: my dogs are smarter.

    I know the cable news boyz and the oh-so-smug crowd - of which Andrea Mitchell must be the leader - will be fully into the post-orgasmic glow, but I am going to bury my head in a good book and ignore them.  

    I wanted Hillary to kick a$$ tonight, and I'm sad that she didn't.  She closed hard on two states that she wasn't expected to have any chance in even 2 weeks ago, so I'm proud she exceeded those expectations.  I suppose it is finally dawning on me that the same electorate that thought George Bush deserved to be elected twice hasn't gotten a whole lot smarter in the last 4 years.

    And I'm angry because this is going to keep Florida and Michigan in a holding pattern, and I am dreading the inevitable Obama SD roll-outs tomorrow.

    Argh.

    Attack of the trolls (none / 0) (#234)
    by Marvin42 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:19:22 PM EST
    What's up with that? I would have thought with Sen Obama not doing as terribly as he could have I wonder why that are out in full force.

    attack us while we're down. it's the ol' (none / 0) (#255)
    by kangeroo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:52 PM EST
    kick the dog while it's down routine.  seen it before.

    Parent
    It's their way of reaching out to (none / 0) (#256)
    by nycstray on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:33:24 PM EST
    to Hillary supporters. Unity 101 . . .

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#240)
    by Buckeye on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:22:04 PM EST
    I watched Rove (yikes) on Fox News and he made some very interesting points.  He said that over 50% of those who voted for Hillary in Indiana and North Carolina said they would never vote for Obama.  Rove said that although this always happens in the heat of a battle and these negatives usually drop, this is a freakishly high number, unprecedented, and a real problem for the Democrats in November whether they will admit it or not.

    Rove may be evil, but he has mastered the art of campaigns.  I agree with his analysis.

    So do I (none / 0) (#249)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:26:10 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    Hillary won more counties (none / 0) (#245)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:24:45 PM EST
    but the counties Obama is winning is larger with AA voters.

    Results (none / 0) (#247)
    by stefystef on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:25:22 PM EST
    http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NC/1875/3810/en/md.html?cid=100

    Parent
    And now Hillary speaks (none / 0) (#260)
    by Buckeye on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:37:28 PM EST


    The Brazille Factor, Etc... (none / 0) (#266)
    by Sycamore on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:39:39 PM EST
    Yes, Donna Brazille is a crowned queen at the DNC. I'm not sure what she did to deserve the job except to lose the Gore campaign after Bill Clinton gave her name recognitionin the 90s. Like Clyburn, she called herself an uncommitted or undeclared delegate to fool viewers at CNN that she is giving UNBIASED opinion. But everytime she opens her mouth you can see Obama's name on her forehead. The DNC created a stupid sytem, using stupid proportional voting, and now that Hillary is utilizing that system, they want to prevent her from going all the way. Stupid Dean, Stupid Brazille, Stupid Pelosi, Stupid Kerry, Stupid Kennedy..... It seems to me that because they're candidate is ahead, it should stop here. Nobody is Fair and Objective anymore. Where is the decency HERE? If what they want was a quicker nomination process why didn't they use the Republican system? Winner takes all. Because if they did, Hillary would have been nominated twice already. Also what stupid system will allocate more delegates to a loser of a state for the very reason that BLACKS live in some of those districts. Why are the Black Votes be counted more than the White American Votes, Asian Votes, Hispanic Votes, Seniors, Etc.? Is this really Democracy? Also, if Barack was behind the DNC would have probably counted Florida's and Michigan's votes twice already. It's the most STUPID System I've seem in a long long time.

    Obama Congratulates Hillary for Her Win in Indiana | 256 comments (256 topical)