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Saturday Open Thread

If you're online today and looking for a place to chat, here you go.

And don't believe the rumors I'm seeing on other threads about the Denver Convention being canceled or scaled back to a single day due to lack of funds. The only thing canceled was the media walk-through for this coming week -- and the Sunday night parties are being combined into a single event.

For the latest, check the Rocky Mountain News and Denver Post. The fundraising is being done by the Denver Host Committee, not the DNC or the DNCC. What's the difference?

The Denver 2008 Convention Host Committee is a non-profit organization charged with generating the funding to pay for the 2008 Democratic Convention; organizing a volunteer base; and providing hospitality to delegates and credentialed media. Our mission is to showcase Denver and the Rocky Mountain West, to include all aspects of the community and culture of the entire region, and to emphasize environmentally, economically, and socially sustainable development.

More...

As to the DNCC:
The Democratic National Convention Committee is the official arm of the Democratic National Committee responsible for planning and organizing the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver.
As to the DNC:
The Democratic National Committee plans the Party's quadrennial presidential nominating convention; promotes the election of Party candidates with both technical and financial support; and works with national, state, and local party organizations, elected officials, candidates, and constituencies to respond to the needs and views of the Democratic electorate and the nation.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Booman loses mind and sense of reality, (5.00 / 8) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:36:22 PM EST
    again.  Another Obama supporter continuing to earn Obama zero new votes and lots of ticked off insulted people.

    Military....the article is appalling, as are (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:48:34 PM EST
    many of the commenters.  They truly have bought the b.s. hook, line and sinker.

    Parent
    I am sick of reading that any white woman (5.00 / 12) (#46)
    by Aqua Blue on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:21:48 PM EST
    who does ot support Obama is a closet racist.  Will not go to that site again.

    Reminds me of why I left kos after 4 loyal years.

    The disrespectful remarks just don't stop.  When I look back at fights that I fought against sexism and racism, in the workplace and as an early NOW and ACLU member, I just shake my head and wonder in amazement at the current situation.

    Instead of respecting the rights of individuals, there is a tone that is beoming more and more fascist.   Dissent is no longer tolerated.

    Parent

    Heh. (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by lilburro on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:49:09 PM EST
    Who can even take that seriously?  As Tim Wise might say, "Sister please."

    It's been a week.  Give people time to make the decision they want to make.

    Parent

    "Your whiteness is showing" (5.00 / 13) (#38)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:17:08 PM EST
    The title alone is highly bigoted and insulting. Ah, feel the unity. Another in the long line of "you're a racist if you don't vote for Obama" rants.  Feel the love.

    Parent
    So all us white folks are supposed (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:26:06 PM EST
    to do what?? Show up in blackface to show solidarity with Obama?? What is with these people?? Do they write in a vacuum of their own devising?? They must, it's the only way to explain that sort of drivel.

    Parent
    Don't you think you should not base those feelings (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:35:46 PM EST
    On blogs.  I just don't understand that.  You don't know who is writing these statements, you have never met them, and besides it is a fraction of a population.  Personally I have felt for a long time that many of the most devisive statements (especially at the beginning) were made by people trying to divide us.  By the way, as a Black guy I will say with much love,   I love white ladies, my mom is a white lady :).

    Parent
    The opinion piece that Booman (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:48:01 PM EST
    links to is written by Tim Wise,who's a well-known liberal anti-racism activist. You'd think he'd know better than to use racial stereotypes. Its sad. I've respected what he's done in the past, and most particularly respected his criticism of Zionism from his own Jewish perspective, but I have zero respect for what he wrote in that piece.

     It won't affect my decision about how to vote in November, though. That decision is based on my judgment of the candidates themselves, not on my judgment of any supporters, no matter how appalling, or appealing, they may be.

    Parent

    In terms of supporters, and supporting Obama (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:55:45 PM EST
    Just so you know I am really, really, really good looking:)

    Parent
    Ha! You may very well be stunning (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:15:37 PM EST
    but I'm afraid it still won't affect my vote. Now, when I was younger.....  ;-)

    Parent
    It seems that the (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:18:47 PM EST
    overweening ego is not limited to Obama, his supporters have it in plenty as well. I congratulate you on your good looks. I hope one day you will add good sense to them. :)

    Parent
    speaks VOLUMES (5.00 / 3) (#207)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:12:31 PM EST
    about Obama supporters:  "i am really good looking".  Who gives a sh1t?  Looks don't run the country, and neither do empty platitudes.

    this is the typical obama voter:  surface over substance.  plain and simple.  and WHY do you have to inject your racial background into it?

    oh that's right...another SOP for Obama supporters as well.

    Parent

    Booman Who Is Promoting The Meme (5.00 / 7) (#97)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:06:00 PM EST
    is not an unknown figure in the blog world. He has had a Democratic blog for quite some time and has not just entered the scene for the sole purpose of dividing the party. Many of the people who have peddled this theme from the beginning have been at the A-list blogs for years and are well known to the people who use to frequent those blogs themselves.

    It would be more productive IMO if you went on Booman and other blogs who are engaging in suggesting that all white women who are not Obama supporters are racists and tell them that their actions are counterproductive than trying to rationalize their behavior.

    Some of us racist white women were actually around in the sixties and seventies and have spent more years trying to ensure equality for all people than some of the people calling us racists have been on this earth.  

    Parent

    LOL! (5.00 / 8) (#41)
    by madamab on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:20:09 PM EST
    Their fear is showing.

    P.U.M.A.!

    Parent

    How nice (5.00 / 6) (#65)
    by Nadai on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:41:11 PM EST
    Yet another man -actually, two men: Booman and the author, Tim Wise - telling us little ladies (at least those of the white persuasion) how we ought to vote.  Do you think either of them would get it if I posted an open letter telling them their maleness was showing?

    Parent
    it would have no effect - (5.00 / 10) (#69)
    by jeffhas on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:43:08 PM EST
    unless you told them it was barely visible.

    Parent
    Bwhahahaha (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by LoisInCo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:44:37 PM EST
    oh that make made me laugh. :)

    Parent
    I would (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Nadai on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:50:51 PM EST
    give this a thousand 5s if I could.  Thank God I wasn't reading this at work or I'd have a dozen people coming in to see why I was cackling.

    Parent
    And I STILL don't get the purpose of (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:18:22 PM EST
    such screeds.

    Is anyone persuaded by being called a racist?  Or condescended to?  I mean, even most racists don't like to be called racist, and most stupid people don't like to be called stupid.

    Or are all these pieces of intellectual dog-doo just supposed to be further fodder for the True Believers to lap up and circulate virally, in the hopes that there are white women out there weak-brained enough to go 'Oh no!  I had no idea I was racist!  I'll get right on that.'

    Or is it not even that clever or devious?  Maybe it's just to feed their own self-righteousness and narcissistic personality disorder?

    Parent

    Feeding Their Own Superiority IMO n/t (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:30:37 PM EST
    Here's where Wise truly loses me: (4.75 / 4) (#126)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:28:43 PM EST
    Look, I couldn't care less about the Party personally. I left the Democrats twenty years ago when they told me that my activism in the Central America solidarity and South African anti-apartheid movements made me a security risk, and that I wouldn't be able to get clearance to be in some parade with Governor Dukakis. Yeah, seriously.

    So his reason to "leave the party" is all good and noble, but anyone else ... racist.

    I should also add that his statement is disingenuous. According to Wikipedia, Tim Wise was born in 1968.  That means that the first Presidential election he was eligible to vote in was 1988, the year Dukasis ran.

    So his 20 year old self had all the sense in the world to leave a party, which he didn't really belong to, and allow Papa Bush to get elected.  But older white women couldn't have any better reason than racism?

    I'm going to vote for Obama.  But when I read stuff like Wise's piece I really don't want to.

    Parent

    I dismiss blogs that try to (1.00 / 1) (#89)
    by 1jane on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:00:38 PM EST
    divide Democrats as this one did but seems to finally be returning to sanity.

    Parent
    This blog never tried to (5.00 / 5) (#149)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:44:21 PM EST
    divide. Jeralyn always said she and BTD will be supporting whomever the dem nominee became. As soon as the #'s hit for Obama, she declared this site to be for his candadacy. Please do not make it any more than what it is.And, imo, we are not divided, we are of different opinions as to what we believe.

    Parent
    Love the way he also claims to speak (none / 0) (#154)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:50:02 PM EST
    for women of color.

    And you wonder why women of color have, for so long, thought (by and large) that white so-called feminists were phony as hell? Sister please...

    Where the hell does he come up with that? It would take me all day to dissect the pure and utter BS in that one sentence.

    I already have resigned myself to vote for Obama, even though he is plainly (to me) not the best candidate we could have put forward. But I live in Florida, and if it is not close enough for my vote to make a difference, I will write-in Hillary just to spite idiots like this. It has nothing to do with racism.  It has to do with who I want to be commander in chief when there are close to 200,000 troops in the field.  Amazing how Obama supporters just wish that fact away.

    Parent

    WTH?!? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Josey on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:45:14 PM EST
    OK - at first I thought the pic of Che in the office of Obama's Texas headquarters was just a sole instance.
    But here's an AP photo of an Ohio judge in his office flanked by pics of Che and Obama.

    Castro must be smiling - Republicans too.

    USAToday -
    http://tinyurl.com/5rruxr


    birds of a feather.,, (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:49:29 PM EST
    Oh come on (none / 0) (#23)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    You are comparing Che Guevara to Obama?  That is ridiculous.

    Parent
    Perhaps (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    We should write that judge a letter and find out what he thinks the two have in common, if anything at all.


    Parent
    Guilt by association (none / 0) (#37)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:16:01 PM EST
    is a tactic--used quite effectively in the 1950s.

    Parent
    I still think (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:26:07 PM EST
    we should write that letter.

    This judge seems to have some important things to say.

    Parent

    Perhaps Roger Stone (none / 0) (#54)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:30:27 PM EST
    can help you write that letter.....

    Parent
    If you're so sensitive to (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:33:38 PM EST
    Obama and Che being compared I just think you should track down all those who do so to make sure no one does.

    I really thought you'd have been interested in what this judge had to say, so that you could refute it.

    Odd.


    Parent

    I suspect the Judge (none / 0) (#102)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:10:51 PM EST
    has the Che poster because he believes the "poor are oppressed" but overlooks Dr. Ernesto Guevera's personal failings, his dislike of democracy and his reliance on violence.....

    Jon Anderson has written what most consider the definitive biography of Che.  He had access to a lot of records in Cuba and various records held by Che's widow, I believe.

    I lived in Guatemala during the civil war....I know about the power of Che's pull on various people.  I would be more than happy to discuss it with you....  

    But somehow, I just get this sense you were more interested in the mischief of comparing Che to Obama....

    Parent

    truth be told (none / 0) (#155)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:50:27 PM EST
    I think its all superficial boutique activism.  Look at the judge with the pictures of revolutionaries on his wall.  I wouldnt have such a good time making mischief if your defensiveness wasnt so predictable.

    Parent
    you're targeting the wrong people! (none / 0) (#33)
    by Josey on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:12:34 PM EST
    It appears Obama and his followers are promoting Che.
    If you think it's ridiculous, talk to them about
    Obama's Che-Che-Change...


    Parent
    So, Obama is promoting Che? (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:29:22 PM EST
    That is absurd.

    As to followers, you have two incidents to point to.....The first was by a Latina campaign worker in Texas who took the sign down.....The second is a judge who has not been identified as part of Obama's campaign.

    And people talk about irrational Hillary hate.

    As to Che, he has reached iconic status in Latin America....Those who support Che in Latin America often do so for reasons totally unconnected to his actual historical actions and beliefs.  He has become (right or wrong) a symbol of the oppressed and poor.  

    Che only joined up with Castro in Mexico City after the CIA toppled the Arbenz government in 1954.  If that had not happpend, he would most likely have remained a feckless doctor in Guatemala....

    In any event, I am not so sure you wanted to talk about Che so much as take a cheap shot at Obama.

    Parent

    Obama's core support ... (4.50 / 2) (#132)
    by Salo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:31:30 PM EST
    ...are the hard left of the party.  It's fairly typical for antiwar people to admire Lenin or Che or Trotsky and see guys like Stalin Castro as aberations.

    Now, I'm saying this as a social Democrat who grew up in Western Europe. I'd like the US government to gbe more left wing and pass a National Health Service reform, but you tend to find the more ingenuous lefties don't realize how dangerous the Che's and Trotsky's were...and the Democratoc party is packed with em.

    Parent

    I kinda like Che (none / 0) (#104)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:11:57 PM EST
    In the 60's, (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:36:08 PM EST
    I had a picture of him on my wall too as well as several t-shirts.

    Yep.  Che, RFK, Janis Joplin and James Dean.  :-)

    I was so enlightened. (sigh)

    Parent

    An interesting person (none / 0) (#120)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:23:54 PM EST
    I blame the Dulles boys for pushing Che into Castro's arms.....I think Che had potential at one time.....I doubt that can be said about Castro.

    Parent
    Politically, it's ridiculous (none / 0) (#91)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:03:03 PM EST
    In terms of self image, uh, maybe not so much.

    Parent
    I'm not comparing anyone....left out the (none / 0) (#176)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:24:30 PM EST
    question mark.  yikes...

    Parent
    It just seems to be an open (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:50:35 PM EST
    spout. I think these things have stopped surprising people.

    Parent
    Why are there any political pictures (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Foxx on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:55:08 PM EST
    on his wall? It's important for judges to maintain the appearance as well as substance of neutrality.

    Parent
    McCain wooing (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:57:46 PM EST
    voters in PA. My husband got an auto-poll. The first question was who did he vote for in the primary. The second was would he consider voting for McCain.

    And then they ask you to participate (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:15:03 PM EST
    in the live broadcast and actually ask a question to McCain. I declined. But I suspect they would have your question there and a good response ready. Ha. That was yesterday morning. Interesting, as I am in PA too. Any other states get this auto call?

    Parent
    Interesting. (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:39:17 PM EST
    I know that Obama will have to carry two of PA, OH and FL to win the presidency. Since Obama has already written off FL I guess McCain thinks that he can take PA from him and even if Obama managed to win OH, it wouldn't matter in the end.

    Parent
    Hmm, I thought current polling (none / 0) (#116)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:21:53 PM EST
    looked like Ohio was more amenable to McCain.  Are there any Ohioans on the board today?  Maybe he's autopolling both?

    Parent
    Obama (4.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:41:27 PM EST
    does poll worse in OH. Perhaps McCain is just hedging his bets. Or maybe the demographics in PA make it more favorable for him.

    Parent
    I did...... (none / 0) (#178)
    by michitucky on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:27:53 PM EST
    Received the same call on Thursday in Michigan.

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:19:43 PM EST
    McCain is rounding up all the names of the Hillary voters that he can find and trying to get them in on conference calls where he answers their questions. They are really fighting for our votes. I find it very interesting.

    Parent
    Have you ever read Small Gods? (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Salo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:23:58 PM EST
    You have to fight for every soul.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:22:36 PM EST
    at least someone's fighting for my vote.  /snark

    Parent
    Saw McCain's pitch to Clinton women (5.00 / 8) (#157)
    by davnee on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:55:18 PM EST
    Saw a 5-minute video recorded by Carly Fiorina on behalf of McCain directly addressing women who voted for Clinton.  The directness and respectful tone of it really blew me away.  At the end of it, she hadn't really explained any tangible issues where a vote for McCain would be almost as good as a vote for Clinton.  Of course not, how could she?  

    What was really spell-binding about the video, however, was how forthright Fiorina was about how unfairly Clinton was treated, how she as a fellow woman breaking glass ceilings and wielding power could relate to how profoundly difficult it is to thread the needle of power as a woman, and how critical it is for all women to support each other and to not shy from expressing their political power.  Everything about the video was measured and respectful.  She just asked for the opportunity to talk to Clinton supporting women about McCain, and asked them to keep an open mind about him.  It was very well done theater.  And it felt good to watch, when you are being clubbed over the head with a coat hanger by your own side.

    The Obama camp and Dems in general could learn a thing or two from this video.  Quit treating women like electoral low-hanging fruit and start treating them with respect.  Quit demanding votes and start asking for them!  Wasn't Obama the one that told us words matter?  So quit using hateful, demanding and demeaning words that actively drive women away from voting on the issues that matter most.

    Parent

    Yep... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:03:46 PM EST
    I don't have much to add to that.

    I got into a spat on some blog or another (it might have been MyDD) with an Obama supporter who told me, TOLD me that I would support Obama in the fall, regardless of how I was "feeling" about him now.

    No question, no doubt, no choice.

    Parent

    I half expect the convention (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by LoisInCo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:16:08 PM EST
    to open up with a disembodied voice saying:

    "Identify"

    (Logan's run reference sorry couldn't resist.)

    Parent

    Lois...most of us wouldn't even be able to (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:33:05 PM EST
    attend...didn't they kill people when they turned 30, or something along those lines?  

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by LoisInCo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:40:33 PM EST
    when your time was up( at 30) your clock (embedded in your hand) flashed red. You were then sent   to commit ritual public suicide in the hopes that your spirit would be renewed. The ritual (as well as other things) were opened with "Identify" to show your clock. My sister has taken to refering to me as a "runner" ( one who flees instead of attending the ritual) because I refuse to "renew" as an Obama supporter. Heh. We love that movie.

    Parent
    I would be proud to join you as a runner :) (none / 0) (#192)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:53:18 PM EST
    LOL what a goof (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:31:25 PM EST
    What's the plural of goof anyway? Gooves like roof/rooves? Goofs? Goofuses (like doofuses)?

    I'd like to know for formal business correspondence and such.

    Parent

    "clubbed over the head (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:22:09 PM EST
    with a coat hanger". I just had to repeat that phrase of yours. Very apt. May I steal it?

    Parent
    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by davnee on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:59:05 PM EST
    But only if it is used in the spirit of reforming the unity pony rather than just propping it.

    Parent
    Did the call (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Nadai on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:46:52 PM EST
    say who the poll was being conducted by?

    Parent
    Not conducted BY (none / 0) (#117)
    by Fabian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:22:15 PM EST
    but conducted FOR.

    Companies conduct surveys FOR various interests.  I did one survey that obviously was done for a right wing religio-con interest (election 2006).  Lousy survey and totally leading questions.  The worst I've ever participated in.

    Parent

    McCain n/t (none / 0) (#186)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:42:43 PM EST
    News from Detroit (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by Steve M on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:11:00 PM EST
    Important left topic (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:45:56 PM EST
    I was cutting some watermellon today and thinking about the fact that I hate the fact that I love watermellon, and watermellon is a aweful stereotype of black people (same with fried chicken).  Why can't the stereotype be of star fruit.   A useless fruit.  Umm watermellon and fried chicken, my Oberlin College education has ruined my delicious Saturday meal.  Cops must hate the donut stereotype for the same reason.

    Ha! (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:04:46 PM EST
    I say just embrace the watermelon! And then eat it! I love watermelon! Fried chicken too!

     Absolutely nothing wrong with loving it. Just ignore the stereotype and realize that at some point on some level every person alive with have some trait, or characteristic or like or ability that just happens to coincide with some stereotype or another.

     I understand the trepidation though. I'm female and I tend to have a hard time making a decision. I don't think its hard-wired to my femaleness at all, but it is a little disturbing to have to admit to fitting the female stereotype on this. Ah well, such is life.  

    Parent

    Doesn't stop cops (5.00 / 5) (#103)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:11:19 PM EST
    from eating a lotta donuts.  Watermelon and friend chicken are beloved by all Americans.  Can't imagine why it got stuck to black folks.

    Parent
    Did you (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:18:08 PM EST
    ever have watermelon seed spitting contests? Lots of fun, and a reason to eat watermelon by hand, outdoors.

    Parent
    In my young adulthood, the best use of watermelon (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:20:14 PM EST
    was to fill it with vodka to take to softball games on fields that did not allow any booze on the premises.

    Personally I think stereotypes are more useless than star fruit and need to scorned at every opportunity. I am old enough to know that I do not have to own someone's opinion of me. Unless I value the person and my relationship with them, why should their opinion matter?  Even in personal relationships judgments often have more to do with how things are perceived when filtered through their own rules and not how they are perceived though mine.

    Parent

    Did you inject it or just store the (none / 0) (#180)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:29:02 PM EST
    bottle in it? We used to use the huge 60cc. syringes, and 18 gauge needles, to inject watermelon with vodka. Then the watermelon was chilled and served for dessert at the bbq. Great way to end a meal on a hot day. Heh.

    Parent
    Never Got That Technical (5.00 / 2) (#210)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:19:03 PM EST
    Just cut a few small triangles in strategic places and poured the vodka in and then chilled. Refreshing food (drink) while playing ball on a hot and muggy night in St. Louis.  

    Parent
    Fuel injected, baby! (Drink and dessert for a bbq) (none / 0) (#205)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:09:19 PM EST
    Take an ice cream scoop and lay out 1/2 spheres of very cold watermelon on a tray. Inject with vodka and freeze. You could just use them like that in the cocktail of your choice. OR ...

    Scoop into or line frozen martini glasses with vanilla ice cream. (Use cornonets pressed into slightly softened vanilla ice to keep the shape of the martini glass, or whatever creates a well in the serving gobelet of your choice.)

    Load the frozen vodka melon ball into the ice cream and it's the dessert/drink slurpy of the gods.

    You can also fuel inject and freeze other melons and fruits and just add fizzy water, syrups etc.

    I also add the frozen fuel injected fruits to sangria instead of ice cubes. Frozen seedless grapes make great "cubes".

    Parent

    Stereotype (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:27:48 PM EST
    The fact that many AA culturally identify with southern cooking is no different from Chinese Americans who like chinese food. The fact that these foods are used along with racist messages is the problem not the foods themselves.

    Parent
    Neat technique. (5.00 / 4) (#131)
    by Fabian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:30:48 PM EST
    Take your watermelon and cut in half on the "equator".

    Stand one half melon on the cut side on a cutting board.

    Cut off the top of the melon - deep if you cut the blossom end, shallower if you cut the stem end.

    Now start "peeling" the melon by slicing the rind off by cutting from top to bottom.  Adjust your cuts to leave nothing but a hemisphere of pure, sweet, juicy goodness.

    Cut the melon into slices and then into cubes.  Enjoy!

    (Kids frequently leave a lot of edible melon on the rind when you give them slices.  Cutting the rind off the melon eliminates a lot of nagging. And remember to compost the rinds!)

    Parent

    Mmmmm (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:38:46 PM EST
    That got my mouth watering.....  I like your technique, although there is something nostalgic about greedily eating a slice of watermelon and stopping only when encountering the slightly sour taste of rind.

    Parent
    hey fabian (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:42:48 PM EST
    did you mom ever make watermelon rind pickles? Not my fav, but around here people will anything.

    Parent
    meant to say (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:47:59 PM EST
    but around here people will PICKLE anything. (including themselves with Mo blue's recipe)

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 4) (#159)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:55:42 PM EST
    enjoy your watermelon sam.

    I'm Irish and feel the same way when I drink a beer before noon.

    O c'mon, it's not like it's every day.

    Parent

    You've inspired me (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:04:36 PM EST
    I just opened a beer - a Mackleson's Triple Stout, in fact!

    Parent
    Enjoy! (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:17:01 PM EST
    I don't have anything that good handy.

    Disclaimer - i meant I'm of Irish descent - don't want anyone to think I'm impersonating the real thing! But I do love my Guinness.

    Parent

    mmmm...Guiness (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:21:41 PM EST
    that and Anchor Steam - my introduction to quality beer.

    Parent
    Heh (4.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Steve M on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:56:36 PM EST
    When I was in college, they served watermelon and fried chicken on MLK Day.  No joke.

    Parent
    Here's the Dean quote I was talking about (5.00 / 6) (#75)
    by janarchy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:47:22 PM EST
    When Mr. Dean reached out to Cynthia Ruccia, who started an organization of female Clinton swing-state voters threatening to vote for Mr. McCain, Ms. Ruccia asked that the Democratic convention include a symbolic first ballot for Mrs. Clinton's delegates. Mr. Dean discouraged the idea on the grounds of unity.

    Link from the New York Times

    I think that is short-sighted (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by stxabuela on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:02:25 PM EST
    and will actually discourage party unity.

    Parent
    I'm more disgusted with Obama supporters... (5.00 / 0) (#115)
    by dianem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:21:46 PM EST
    ...than I ever was. They are over on Daily Kos promoting how Obama is "helping" with flood relief efforts. Can't they figure out that this is not a time for partisanship? Can't they just once set aside their adoration and recognize that this is not a campaign event? There are tragedies happening right now. Hopefully, there will be minimal loss of life because of the evacuations, but there will be losses, of both lives and property. Everybody should be setting aside partisanship and working together. Are we completely incapable of doing that?

    "helping" (5.00 / 0) (#123)
    by smott on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:25:18 PM EST
    ...did he even go to visit the state?....

    Parent
    He shouldn't (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by dianem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:32:56 PM EST
    That would be irresponsible. They have enough on their hands without having to deal with visiting dignitaries. It's bad enough that his supporter's are trying to capitalize on people's miserty. If this goes public from the Obama campaign itself, he will not score any points - people will feel he is being opportunistic.

    Come to think of it - it doesn't ever have to come from the campaign. They have their army of fans to spread the word. The best way.

    Parent

    It might help (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:47:58 PM EST
    if he rounded up his rock concert fans and sent them out to help as volunteers.

    I say might because I really don't know the details of the situation, sometimes it's worse with inexperienced volunteers.  But it would be something to overcome the image that the 'We' in the 'We are the change we can believe in' isn't just a bunch of self-centered college kids.

    Parent

    He's considering getting the waters to recede (5.00 / 4) (#190)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:46:38 PM EST
    The best thing public figures can do is make a plea for donations to local aid agencies and stay the hell away from exploiting tragedy for photo ops. Obama would keep it in the news anyway with a reference.

    Upstream commentary is bang on about how swooping in with the entourage and campaign reporters only leeches preciously needed local resources into security, etc.

    Parent

    as a messiah... (5.00 / 5) (#212)
    by jeffhas on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:25:48 PM EST
    He's considering getting the waters to recede

    Can't he just raise his hands and part the flood waters?

    Parent

    Finding Fault (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:16:03 PM EST
    The Obama campaign is using its website to encourage donations to those in need and to organize volunteers to work in shelters for people who have been forced to flee their homes.

    Only the most cynical of political opponents could find fault with using the resources of the campaign to help those in need.

    Parent

    As far as I can see (5.00 / 4) (#200)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:04:57 PM EST
    the help consists of a link to a blog by an Obama supporter urging people to contribute to the American Red Cross. Hillary Clinton has an appeal to contribute to the Red Cross on her main page. One click instead of two to get there.

    Parent
    I'm monitoring the various defections... (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by Salo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:25:08 PM EST
    ...that have resulted from the primary controvercies, and i'd say it's serious.  It will depress our turnout in November and make McCain's job easier.  One thing I learned from this primary is that the sites like Dkos were predictve of the support Obama got and were not that far off the support that Edwards got.  The underrepresented demo on Dkos was teh Clinton support.  Well, if that 10% really repped the 50% of the party that supported Clinton the online defections and  pronouncments of defection add up to serious trouble.  The netroots may have pushed obama into the nomination, but there's a counterpush going on...

    So what to do about it?

    There's nothing to be done. If (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by MarkL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:28:46 PM EST
    Obama wins the Presidency, it will be by using the same methods he used in the primary.
    He may win, but those who don't vote for him will really loathe him. It's a bad way to start, IMO.


    Parent
    Those methods won't work (5.00 / 5) (#183)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:37:48 PM EST
    against McCain. He can retaliate with stuff that was off-limits to Hillary. And that stuff is dirty...Ayers, Rezko, Blagojevich, Wright, etc. etc. None of this was available to Hillary, due to "party unity", but it is available to McCain and don't think for a minute he won't use it, and use it well. By the time November rolls around, the DNC is going to be collectively bemoaning their choice. If they had vetted him in the first place, none of this approaching disaster would be occurring. You guys think that 2004 was bad? Wait a few months. This time they have a target with real and major weaknesses, and they are salivating to get at him.
    GOD better help Obama, because GOP won't.

    (sorry, couldn't help that last line..a bad pun is better than no pun, right?)

    Parent

    what is with you people? (2.00 / 2) (#187)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:44:15 PM EST
    you call yourselves Dems, and spend all your time trying to convince fellow Dems that the world is coming to an end, that we will lose,,,blah blah blah.

    You are wrong. And you contribute nothing positive to the effort. What are you trying to accomplish?

    Parent

    I am a realist. (5.00 / 9) (#197)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:01:57 PM EST
    And I have been watching politics in this country for a long time. Obama is the most unqualified candidate that has ever been run for the Presidency by a major party. That is a fact. He was chosen by the DNC to be the candidate in the face of the obvious popular vote win by Hillary Clinton. We may be Democrats, but we are not blindly loyal to the party. We think for ourselves. What we are trying to accomplish is to have the Democratic nominee be a competent and able person who can clean up the mess that George Bush is leaving behind. Obama is not the person who is capable of doing that. Nothing in his record says he has any experience tackling hard jobs and getting them done. And no amount of BS from his supporters about "change and hope" is going to make a difference in his non-accomplishments. It's not about the party, it's about the country. I will write Hillary in, I will not vote for McCain. And when McCain wins, I will be keeping a very close eye on him and writing regularly to my representatives in Congress. All of them. Perhaps they will listen when the Obamabeat isn't ringing in their ears. Perhaps.

    Parent
    I'm no longer a Dem (5.00 / 7) (#204)
    by janarchy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:08:05 PM EST
    This current circus of hate and thuggery had me change my party affiliation a month ago. I just got my new card in the mail today. According to New York State, my party affiliation is now "Blank" so I belong to the Blank Generation and I can take it or leave it each time...

    Good luck with YOUR party.

    Parent

    FlaDemFem (1.00 / 0) (#195)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:58:25 PM EST
    Will you be disappointed if Obama wins by 10 points?

    Parent
    No, I will assume election fraud. Heh. (5.00 / 4) (#199)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:04:20 PM EST
    thats the way it always works (1.00 / 0) (#185)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:41:25 PM EST
    Modern political campaigns are designed to provoke loathing of the other.

    You support CLinton, and now loathe Obama. Those who supported Obama now loathe Clinton. Romney supporters ended up loathing McCain, and vice versa.

    Having little chat circles like this only speeds the process. EVery incident gets chewed over, with the most diabolical spin imparted to the opponent, and the most virtuous spin imparted to the preferred candidate.

    Keep at it for a few months and its a miracle that people arent taking up arms...

    Parent

    Gotta love the New Politics Obama inspires (5.00 / 3) (#203)
    by davnee on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:08:00 PM EST
    "All modern political campaigns are designed to provoke loathing of the other."  Gotta hand it to you.  At least you are honest about the scum your guy traded in to get where he was going.

    So we have established that his candidacy was built on a sham (new politics), and peddling scum (villainizing opponents).  So is there anything else?  You know like an issue that your candidate stands for, or a qualification your candidate offers?  We've seen sham, and we've seen scum.  I await substance.

    Parent

    Garden - part three (5.00 / 4) (#147)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:43:00 PM EST
    Front garden:  The tulips are gone and in their place are purple heuchera with feathery white flowers on tall stems, multitudes of purple, pink and white dainthus.  I have just added some small mounded purple daisy called brachycome and two more salvia for the hummingbirds.  Interesting that love-in-a-mist is growing in the redwood sorrel as they have never been planted in my yard.  Birds perhaps?

    Under the two paper bark birches...Purple pincushion flowers are abundant tucked within their rocks.  Stocks of purple veronica poke up through scarlet verbena and lime green succulents.  Three globes of lavendar have small buds and smell wonderful when brushed up against when weeding, they sit next to a silvery santolina whose round, yellow buds are just beginning to open.  In the background are the ferns and a large yellow yarrow whose heads are so heavy the branches bend when the sun warms them.

    Backyard garden:  In the stacked block bed, just picked another 30 or so strawberries that are growing under the roses and around the snapdragons.  The dusty rose callas, that were a gift, are thriving and the hummingbirds have been visiting the deep purple salvia.  The globe allium are about 4 ft tall and the tops are getting larger.  The fun part is tearing the last of the paper cover off when the globe is ready to pop free.  The best part is when they are six inches across and covered with bumblebees.  Cheerful johnny-jump-ups, small sorrel and dianthus make the bed is so full no dirt shows.

    Over the playhouse the clematis dances in the breeze.  The sedum is so huge this year the saxifraga is barely visible.  Though the bearded iris were slow this year, the white foxgloves that thrash when a hard wind hits them made up for it.  White and pink astilbe hide against the fence to avoid the sun.  Who knew that dead nettle has pink blossoms?  That's been a well-kept three year secret.

    Westside garden: The quaking aspen and fig trees are full.  The wisteria is done but the memory of the scent one gets when brushing against them while tending it's garden neighbors still lingers.  The penstemon are satisfying the hummingbirds after just one years growth and the scarlet fuchsia that will take over when they are done is coming on strong.  Monarch butterflies rest on the orange daisy type flowers.  Across the driveway, the huckleberry is covered with red-purple berries that the birds will enjoy this fall.  The large needled pine tree is shading ever spreading baby tears and wild violets.  Herbs are budding and the rosemary looks oily when the sun hits it.  The iris are done and the drying stems are quickly being covered by growing twinspur.

    Patio garden:  yes, the fish are doing fine in their tile surrounded container.  The fish expect food when the gray cat sits on the cedar edging and licks at the water.   The umbrella has just gone up.. more to shade the fine needled eucalyptus that suffers from the sun rather than the people and gives the heliotrope, campanula and pansies (all purple) a rest. The honeysuckle is done, so is the rose that sits on the trellis.  They have been pruned back as they will be commanded to give another performance this summer.   The patio doesn't lack from their absence though as the eucalyptus, carnations and scented geranium take on the job.  It's nice to sit on the benches, watch the bright yellow goldfinch on the feeder, maybe take a picture or two, lean the head back to enjoy the sun on face only to be startled by a diving hummingbird.

    How goes it in your yard?

    My yard is a mess... (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by kredwyn on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:49:04 PM EST
    I did some weeding earlier today and yesterday. But there's more than I can handle right now.

    Planted some verbena and a few other plants to try and add some color. I have wildflowers from the seeds I planted. But I'm having trouble discerning between them and the weeds...they aren't flowering yet ::sigh::

    The high winds and showers have been tossing other seeds around. So I've got strange stuff coming up in my herb pots with the regular herbs.

    Have decided to talk to the guy who does the neighbor's yard. He's trying to get a business started...and offered to help out with the weeding and the mulching.

    I just started a new job a couple Mondays ago...so that's made it even worse.

    Here comes another thunderstorm...

    Parent

    I'll bite (5.00 / 1) (#216)
    by echinopsia on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:39:05 PM EST
    Since I am waiting out the hottest part of the day before I go back out to mow the grass and water in the cool of the evening. (watering roolz) I'm sitting by an open window and the fragrance of flowers is drifting in with the breeze.

    In the front, the iris and the peonies are done, and the tansy is flowering in clouds of miniature daisies in all the beds where it self-seeded. I'll cut it back or pull it out after the blooms fade. The blue penstemon is in bloom, and has also seeded itself everywhere, including in the buffalo grass. The grass itself is in its third summer from seed and is filling in nicely - and I love that it's kind of blue-green and very fine, and it has to be watered and mown about one-quarter as much as KBG.

    Asiatic lilies, Shasta daisies, columbine, Parker's yarrow, veronica, salvia, catnip, red pine-leaf penstemon, dianthus, centranthus, blanket flower, and geraniums are all in bloom - in orange, yellow, blue, red, pink, magenta and purple. It's a riot of blooms, a xeriscaped cottage garden. Day lilies, butterfly bush, coreopsis, globe thistle, kniphofia, torch lilies, coneflower and Joe Pye weed are all coming on strong for July. Unfortunately the picket fence I laboriously painted two springs ago is starting to peel and fade.:-(

    This morning I hand-pulled weeds from the beds and grass in front, snipped the iris flower stalks and spread a thick layer of mulch. I'm slowly depleting the ten-yard pile of mulch I had delivered two years ago.

    In back, almost everything in and around the pond is in full bloom - heucheras, centranthus, penstemon palmeri (one plant from two years ago has reseeded itself around in every shade from pure white through pale pink to lavender to purple), yellow pineleaf penstemon, salvia, columbine, geranium. The water mint is blooming pale blue, the moneywort bright yellow, and the water parsley white. I'm going to have to cut them back, they're about to obscure the waterfall. The waterlilies aren't budding yet, but the leaves are spreading - soon the white koi that is visibly engorged with eggs will spawn under the leaves and then I'll have baby fish.

    The herb garden is ridiculously lush, with the tarragon flopping all over everything, and the lovage over six feet tall, dwarfing the bronze fennel. The chives are just about done blooming. Lavender is just about there.

    The vegetables (tomatoes, collards, cukes, artichoke, corn, squash, beans) are getting off to a slow start because we've had an unusually cool spring. Today it's almost 90 so that should give them a boost.

    The purple osteospermum are tracking the sun, the zinnias and moss rose are about to bloom for the first time, the feather reed grass is about three feet tall. My old cat Henry is sprawled out in the grassy shade like a tiger in a jungle. The Herbstonne redbeckia I snagged at the end of last summer from the bargain bin - root-bound, straggly, all but dead - have come back like gangbusters and are already two feet tall. By August they'll be over six feet tall and crowned with blooms.

    I love summer. I love my garden. As much work as it is, there is nothing that gives me more pleasure.

    Pictures here.

    Parent

    Politalkix, please (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:59:50 PM EST
    use the hyperlink function in your posts instead of copying in the whole url.  Jeralyn has asked us to to that bc the urls mess with the site formatting.  (you can use the little chain symbol in the Post Comment screen, next to the underline symbol).

    The percentages of each party that is satisfied with their nominees means fairly little without knowing overall numbers of each.  And showing that satisfaction determines voting behavior.  Goodness knows I've been dissatisfied with Dem nominees in the past but voted for them anyway.

    Not this year, though.

    Chinese Drilling Off Cuba! (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by creeper on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:03:39 PM EST
    Found this on the McClatchy website.  (I love McClatchy.  They report the news.)

    Citing columnist George Will, Cheney on Wednesday told the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that "oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida. We're not doing it. The Chinese are in cooperation with the Cuban government."

    George Will?  (voice rising hysterically)  George Will?!?!  The Vice-President of the United States cites intelligence from George Will???????

    Evidently Cheney couldn't find a soul in the CIA who was willing to propagate this lie.  

    P.S.  Cheney has since acknowledged that this information was in error.

    Instead of just constantly carping (5.00 / 4) (#208)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:13:17 PM EST
    because the conversation isn't going the way you want, why don't you just introduce a new subject, like Vincent Bugliosi, since this is an open thread?
    Are you going to berate us for discussing rhubarb and watermelon here as well when we could be talking about what you want to talk about?

    Or is it best for you to just continue to revel in your feelings of anger and superiority? Do YOU really care about what Vincent Bugliosi said, or are you just using it to beat us over the head because it makes you feel better?

    Sainthood? Perdition? Says who? (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:26:09 PM EST
    Not interested in anything more than beating people over the head, I see. How empathetic.

    Why do Obama supporters spend (5.00 / 3) (#220)
    by MarkL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:28:41 PM EST
    so much bandwidth trying to convince people that Obama's hands were clean in the primary?
    Not only did Obama win, are we told, but he won in the best, most above board way; furthermore, every single Clinton supporter (except a few dead-enders) will agree with this point of view [or else?]?
    These are the same people, by and large, who are telling me I shouldn't vote for McCain because of the apocryphal story that he called his wife a "c**t", and who insist that only by tearing down McCain's character can Obama win.
    So... destroying McCain's character is an essential part of Obama's game plan for the fall, and at the same time, Obama did exactly NONE of that in the primary?
    What grade do you people think you are in??


    i am sure that a number of cutbacks (5.00 / 0) (#222)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:38:45 PM EST
    are indeed just gossip as jeralyn points out. but i have to say there is a lot of talk about the dnc being cash strapped. and now they are relying on obama? how long will that be a source of funds. maybe not past november? then tuck tail between legs, update resume and go back to dc. yeah, right.

    Obama is filling sandbags (5.00 / 0) (#224)
    by 1jane on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:03:21 PM EST
    Go to the Obama website and see exactly what the campaign is doing for flood victims, including Obama getting his hands dirty filling sandbags. It will even provide when and where he'll be.

    In the delegation from my Congressional Distict five of us and one alternate are going to the Democratic National Convention. The Clinton caucus at the delegate selection convention had under twenty people show up. The Obama caucus had over 120 show up. One woman is going as a pledged delegate for Clinton because she was the only woman to show up. She is quoted in the local newspaper, "I guess its good to show up." She and the other Clinton supporter going to the nabtional convention stressed they would work to restore unity in the Democratic Party. Both also stated they did not feel Clinton's legacy would not be tarnished by her loss to Obama in the primary. Neither do I.

    As for me I just wanted a Democrat who could win. After judging Clinton's unfavorables, her loss in Iowa coming in third and her losses in February it became clearer she wasn't going to be the nominee. I have issues with both Obama and Clinton but recognize we are just one vote away  in the Supreme Court from making torture legal, to continuing warrentless wiretapping, denying civil rights of under represented individuals and the loss of Roe v. Wade. Consider me a pragmatic Democratic voter.

    The Clinton and Obama campaigns registered nearly 8,000 new Democrats in my rural county. That's a clear signal that people want something very different from the current administration. The Clinton and Obama campaigns are working together in my county  planning a welcome event to all those new Democrats. A phone bank welcoming the new Democrats, a personal note and a huge picnic are planned. This county was considered a Republican stonghold, not anymore!

     

    I'm always amused (5.00 / 0) (#225)
    by cawaltz on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 06:09:11 PM EST
    when people who don't know me at all assume they know me, my motivations and life experiences. If calling me a racist is the best they got I feel sorry for them. That line will crumble in a New York minute(which is how long it would take me to pull out a pic of my nephew who just so happens to be AA).  

    And how's this for party unity (4.50 / 8) (#77)
    by Rhouse on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:47:58 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/6r57of  
    (sorry small cut and paste coming up):
    "So much for party unity: As Florida Dems prepare for Saturday's Jefferson-Jackson dinner aimed at bringing the party "together once and for all," a spat over the Obama campaign's decision to replace some already-designated Florida delegates with Obama backers has intensified."

    I guess the ROOLZ now allow for the taking of delegates after they've been chosen by the people.

    Didn't they try this same b.s. and Carole (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:37:05 PM EST
    Migden was all over obama's behind...they were taking names off the delegate (or wannabe delegate rolls) in favor of their money bundlers and their g/f's and wives?  They reinstated the names after the big brouhaha.

    Parent
    Jon Ausman (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by janarchy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:05:42 PM EST
    wrote the RBC a scathing letter pointing out that the Obama camp can't actually purge certified delegates now. That the time to do it was in May iirc and nothing was said/done and now they're just kicking out elected delegates wily nily if they don't like them.

    I'll try to find an actual link for the letter. I read it posted in full over at PUMA PAC in the comments section. It's too long to post here.

    Parent

    Jeralyn (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:30:36 PM EST
    are they still having difficulty raising money? I think the whole thing got started because of all the news stories about how the DNC is broke and was having problems raising money for the convention.

    nevermind (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:35:58 PM EST
    Jeralyn, I saw your response in another thread. Thanks.

    Parent
    The Denver Host Committee (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:37:38 PM EST
    had set a deadline of Monday to raise $40.6 million and they are short as of now, but are still working on it. Even if they fall short, it doesn't mean the convention won't happen.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:48:44 PM EST
    for the link. It's still kind of confusing though. Is it this coming Monday that they're supposed to raise $40 million dollars?

    I guess if they fall short they'll shorten the number of days that they have the convention or cut out a lot of events? Has it ever happened that a party couldn't raise the money for the convention? Not raising the money would be nothing short of a PR disaster for the party IMO.

    Parent

    That won't happen (none / 0) (#20)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:57:29 PM EST
    What (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:07:41 PM EST
    won't happen? Falling short in the money? And why do you think so? Lots of top fundraisers have already been reported to be leaving the party.

    Parent
    On the whole (none / 0) (#34)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:13:21 PM EST
    almost everyone thinks Obama will far outstrip McCain by several fold in campaign funds.....

    The RNC now has more money than the DNC but that will change....There may be a few Hillary fundraisers who are sitting it out, but most are supporting Obama.

    Parent

    Why (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:22:54 PM EST
    hasn't he reported his fundraising numbers then? I was surprised that they aren't out yet. I don't know if Obama will outraise McCain or not. He did well with fundraising during the primary but that may or may not translate to the general election.

    Parent
    This site has some details (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:33:52 PM EST
    on Obama's fundraising.
    Bundlers and lobbyist bundlers..just add up the amounts and then subtract that from his total and you will have the amount the "little people" gave. Now the thing about small donors is that, unlike bundlers, they run short of available funds in a hurry. Especially in this economy, what with gas prices and all. I was interested to see that there were a couple of bundlers from Carlyle Group and from The Heritage Foundation. I thought those were Republican supporters, for the most part. Lots of people seem to be hedging their bets by supporting both candidates. That list makes for very interesting reading.

    Parent
    Interesting indeed! (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:50:06 PM EST
    What's with all the homemakers raising $100k and $200k? And I note investment firms and futures? And why Lobbyist bundlers? I thought no lobbyist allowed. These bundlers sure add up to some small givers. Ha! Good information site.

    Parent
    Obama's Pledge Was Specific (none / 0) (#92)
    by santarita on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:03:37 PM EST
    He is living up to his pledge but it was a pledge designed for appearances.  

    Parent
    Everything about Obama (5.00 / 6) (#98)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:08:03 PM EST
    is designed for appearances. That's the problem.

    Parent
    I pledge (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:01:47 PM EST
    not to smell like booze when I get home.

    So I drink vodka.

    Parent

    Lobbyists? (none / 0) (#105)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:14:46 PM EST
    Obama does not accept donations from registered federal lobbyists. I sent him a check for $1000 last year and it was returned to me because -- unbeknownst to me -- I'm a registered federal lobbyist. I'd guess that those who are listed as lobbyists work at the state or local level.

    Parent
    Yes, state and local lobbyist money is (1.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Rhouse on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:23:44 PM EST
    not refused, only federal lobbyists money is returned.

    Parent
    That is not what Howard Dean (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:28:59 PM EST
    keeps telling me.  The big bad Republicans have tons of cash!  They can raise millions with a single brunch!

    It's gotten so I just don't believe anything said in the media.  Is the DNC really hurting for cash, or are the creating an excuse to consolidate even more control over the party?  Or is it a big fake out so people will be motivated to give?

    And isn't the big thing about Obama that he only has to twitch his little finger and MoveOn et al will raise thousand in an hour with their huge base of rich geeks?

    Parent

    I'll try again on this subject (none / 0) (#3)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:34:52 PM EST
    I'm rhubarb-phobic (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:02:40 PM EST
    Seriously.  It grew wild and huge in my neighborhood when I was a kid, and my siblings used to chase me around with the big leaves, and hide them in my underwear drawer.  I got real panic attacks. My heart still races when I go back to my hometown and see those big leaves.  I couldn't even read the Ode to Rhubarb.

    So much for true confessions for today.

    Parent

    Rhubarb is MY FAVORITE (none / 0) (#11)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:48:20 PM EST
    As a kid in Minneapolis our neighbors always planted rhubarb...we loved it raw and sour.

    I agree....who in the world thought it was necessary to stick strawberries in with the rhubarb for pie?

    Parent

    raw (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:05:17 PM EST
    and oh so sour....brave of you!

    yes...lots of rhubarbarians here in MN


    Parent

    What?! (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by davnee on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:15:50 PM EST
    I might have to down-rate this post.  Strawberry-rhubarb pie is one of my all-time favorites.  It's not spring for me until I've had a slice.  Besides, it's like the post-fruit unity pie.  Nah, take that back.  I like the pie too much to insult it.

    Parent
    Strawberry-Rhubarb pie (none / 0) (#88)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:00:35 PM EST
    ruins two fabulous things, IMHO.

    I'm a rhubarb maniac.  Rhubarb pie is to me one of  the most fantastic things on the planet.  I could eat it every day.

    Parent

    rhubarbarians unite! (none / 0) (#100)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:08:35 PM EST
    Just put another batch of rhubarb crisp in the oven..for a pot-luck, so I won't be able to eat all of it myself. With the oatmeal crust, I believe it's likely to be good for the heart!

    gyrfalcon - I'm inspired to make a rhu pie tomorrow - thanks for the reminder of a daily eating regimen.

    Parent

    Rhubarb custard pie!!! (none / 0) (#156)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:53:02 PM EST
    Oh, I gotta have some.

    Mom????

    Parent

    I've got one word for rhubarb (none / 0) (#114)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:20:48 PM EST
    YUCK.

    Parent
    you must be (4.00 / 1) (#142)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:40:33 PM EST
    some latte drinking elitist who doesn't appreciate the "plant of barbarians" ;o0)


    Parent
    I'm more of a raspberry plucking (5.00 / 4) (#179)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:28:52 PM EST
    elitist, truth be known. But go ahead, cling to your bitter rhubarb.... ;-P

    Parent
    is it... (none / 0) (#8)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:45:22 PM EST
    still too early to have an honest discussion of Russerts real legacy as a journalist?

    yeah. (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Salo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:22:00 PM EST
    I could give a synopsis.

    His main legacy was Bush beating Gore (although he may have realized the error by the time Kerry came in 2004). I didn't know he was that widely loved and seen as a leader at NBC.  Their entire editorial slant since MSNBC started was to smash the Clinton legacy and Russert played a big role in that.  Almost briliant Tim'ing in a way.

    He owns that fiasco.

    Parent

    I actually saw a news blurb (4.50 / 2) (#124)
    by davnee on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:26:42 PM EST
    on Russert yesterday announcing his passing that noted Russert's key role in putting the stake through HRC's campaign by authoritatively announcing she had lost the nomination after the NC results came in.  I will never forget how he whored himself as a professional that night in order to shove Obama toward the finish line.  It will be one of the shameful marks on his legacy.  All that being said, my heart still breaks for his family, friends and colleagues.  Still sad to see a life lost too soon.

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:48:09 PM EST
    It is.

    Parent
    BTD didn't spare any words on Russert (none / 0) (#16)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:50:03 PM EST
    on the previous thread.

    Parent
    Not too early for me (none / 0) (#167)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:09:17 PM EST
    My heart goes out to his family and colleagues. I can understand  and forgive their impulse to praise him to the skies yesterday.  

    But I truly hope NBC takes the opportunity to change course on MTPl.  Journalism that just shows someone what someone else said about them, or what the subject himself said 5 years ago, and then asks him to respond is not journalism, no matter how hard the journalist worked to dig up the quotes.

    Parent

    What about the rumor (none / 0) (#9)
    by janarchy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:46:59 PM EST
    that Dean and/or Obama's new DNC wants to dispense with the first ballot and not allow the Clinton delegates to actually vote for their candidate, however symbolic that is? Especially when Dr Dean has said something to that effect in passing? (Sorry -- can't find the exact quote now, no matter how hard I search).

    if true (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:53:42 PM EST
    that's an incredibly petty thing to do as well as an almost all-out invitation to a mass exodus of support, supporters and, eventually, voters.

    Confident campaigns and candidates don't do things like this.  What are they so afraid of?  That we'll see Barack Obama actually has no clothes?

    Parent

    Dean (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:54:37 PM EST
    has been a disaster for the DNC. His ineptness has caused rumors to circulate everywhere. Heck, I've even bought into some of them and I'm very much a skeptic about things.

    Parent
    oh I love this... (1.50 / 2) (#22)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    Its Dean's fault that rumors circulate????

    Hello....
    ITs people who spread rumors who are responsible for rumors circulating. And people who suspend their skepticism because they want to believe the rumor because the rumor makes someone they dont like look even worse.

    Howard Dean has been an incredibly positive force for this party. He is loved by the local and state party structures for emphasizing their importance and for being unwilling to write off any part of the country.

    I dare say that if a little "Dean thinking" had infected the Clinton campaign (fight in all 50 states), she would probably be the nominee today.

    Parent

    So positive (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by janarchy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:03:57 PM EST
    that about half the Democratic base has either left the party or is refusing to vote in November? Yeah, that's really positive.

    Personally, I've never seen such a walking bag of disasters and mismanagement in my life. And I voted for the guy in 2004.

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:08:50 PM EST
    I dare say a little Dean thinking would have helped Clinton.  Taking her name off the ballot in Illinois would have been a start.

    You are SOOOOOO right, man.

    Parent

    actually edgar (none / 0) (#35)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:14:32 PM EST
    I dont know what you are talking about.

    But I think it beyond argument that the major reason Clinton lost was because she never bothered to organize all those unimportant caucus states. Thats what gave Obama an uninterrupted month of victories, and a 100+ delegate lead. Even though she came back strong, she never came close to making up that gap, and that was that.

    And organizing "unimportant" red states is exactly what the Dean approach has been all about.

    Parent

    unfortunately tben (5.00 / 6) (#44)
    by DFLer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:21:19 PM EST
    because of the winner-take-all set-up in almost all states for the electoral college, this red-state/small-state game plan will not reap the rewards that it did in the primaries.

    It is essential that Obama tries hardest on FL, OH, MI and PA...to name a few

    Parent

    I think its also beyond (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:21:29 PM EST
    argument that dean has been about shutting some swing states out of the process.

    Yes.  Obama did do better in a format where voting becomes an exclusive activity and "preplanning" supercedes the will of the people.

    Parent

    Politics is a contact sport (none / 0) (#66)
    by samtaylor2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:42:03 PM EST
    no it's politics (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by Salo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:08:32 PM EST
    Rugby is a contact sport.  Boxing too.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 8) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:17:08 PM EST
    When you report something AS A RUMOR you aren't suspending sketicism.

    Dean has been a disaster. And I was one of the first ones to suggest that he should be party chairman back in 2005. He is NOT loved by the local and state parties. That is just blog hoggers who report that stuff. He has shown ZERO leadership during the primaries and backed the disastrous RBC meeting.

    LOL, not writing off any part of the country? Well he just supported writing off two important swing states a few weeks ago. ROTFLMAO. The problem is that Dean thinks a fifty state strategy is betting on places like ID while dissing states like PA. Even the Obama campaign has now admitted that they won't change the map. Too bad they didn't admit this earlier before we were stuck with Obama as the candidate. Truly, though I think the DNC knows Obama can't win in Nov. but they don't care. The meme seems to be that they would rather lose with Obama than win with Clinton.

    Parent

    zero leadership (1.00 / 1) (#48)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:22:13 PM EST
    is exactly his role in the primary campaign. His job is to do and say nothing that could evidnece any favortism to any of the candidates. When have you ever heard of a party chair taking a leadership role in a primary season?

    The rest of your comment seems to be also from some other planet. You think the DNC doesnt want to win. You think they "know" that Obama will lose, even though he is ahead in all the polls.

    Sorry, I dont think you are making any sense at all.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 10) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:30:50 PM EST
    his zero leadership is why the party is in a shambles right now. He should have come down on the media every time they went after Clinton. If they did it to Obama, he should have come down on them too. You don't let this kind of thing happen to ANY candidate. And it's why people won't vote for Obama. The party is split. Ron Brown took a leadership role on this kind of stuff in 1992. He came down on candidates when they got out of line. It has happened before.

    Obama is within the margin of error in most polls. He can't even break 50% against McCain. You call that leading? And all this is before the GOP has really started on him. Obviously, you haven't been following politics for very long if you don't understand what can happen.

    Parent

    that, my friend, is the worst idea (1.00 / 2) (#61)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:39:10 PM EST
    I have ever heard.

    Lets see now. Someone somewhere says something nasty about Hillary. Dean denounces. Someone says something nasty about Obama. Dean denounces.

    Someone comes along as says - gee, he denounced racism strongly, but sexism superstrongly. Is sexism worse than racism? Someone else comes along and says - but he doublesuperdenounced that racist thing there, and only singlekindadenounced that other sexist thing there. He is showing favortism. He is being unfair.

    You get the picture. Suddenly Howard Dean, and what he says, and how often he says it, and how strongly he says it - suddenly that becomes a major issue it the campaign. And I guarantee you that there are at least dozen or so people here that would have jumped into that game.

    What a disaster that would have been.

    I have been following politics, as a junkie, since shortly after my mother took me into the booth with her to pull the lever for JFK. I think Obama is in a very strong position. Unlike McCain, Obama has had a highly respected member of his own party, and a former president, going around for the last 6 months telling evryone that he is unfit to be president. And he is still ahead of McCain. I think he will do fine - as do most people.

    Not that it is scientific or anything, but I would note that the INtrade markets have people betting 60%+ that Obama will win. Yours is a decidely minority opinion.

    Parent

    Are you kidding? (5.00 / 8) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:53:18 PM EST
    Standing up against the stuff would be worse than cowering in silence? That's what you are saying.

    The problem is that Obama is not respected by the party. He is certainly respected in some quarters sure but to say that everyone respects him is not true. The fact that he is essentially tied with McCain in the polls should ring alarm bells everywhere.

    Intrade is a joke. They just respond to the daily CW. They were predicting that Kerry had about a 5% chance at the dem nomination the day before IA. And if he only has a 60% chance right now that doesn't bode well for the fall when the GOP starts with him.

    Parent

    no, I am saying what I am saying (none / 0) (#87)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:59:00 PM EST
    Its not "cowering". It is recognizing that Howard Dean is not a candidate, and it is NOT his role to inject himself into the campaign and try to play referee to the free speech of 300 million Americans who might chime in.

    IT would have been an absurd distraction.

    "Obama is not respected by the party". Geez bud, once again, what planet do you live on? Why not simply say "I dont respect Obama". Thats all you know about- your opinion. And my opinon is that you dont knwo what you are talking about.

    Parent

    Howard (5.00 / 7) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:04:06 PM EST
    Dean replying is not about whether he's a candidate or not. He certainly went on TV to comment about the race enough. The least he could have done was to stand up to the media when they were throwing stuff. But he couldn't because he's a COWARD.

    If everybody respected Obama then everybody would be endorsing him. They are not. You respect him but are trying to extrapolate that onto the entire party when the facts don't back you up.

    Parent

    he DID inject himself. He showed (5.00 / 5) (#136)
    by MarkL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:34:26 PM EST
    clear favoritism towards Obama, over and over again. He even used Obama buzz words in his speeches.


    Parent
    well, I completely disagree (2.00 / 1) (#158)
    by tben on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:55:34 PM EST
    but there is no use for us to just trade charges.

    Your comment does illustrate though, why having Dean speak out would have been such a disaster.

    He seemed to adopt the normal approach of trying not show favortism, and to keep in the background - and even so, partisans like you are/were ready to accuse him of taking sides in a big way.

    Imagine if he actually HAD decided to play referee and start denouncing every nasty comment. Would partisans like you, on either side, been capable of assessing his fairness? NO WAY!

    It would have been an absolute guarantee that the Obama people would have accused him of favoring Clinton and the Clinton people would have accused him of favoring Obama, and whoever lost would have blamed the party leadership for throwing the election to the other side. What a nightmare.

    People are activly trying to push such nonsense as it is - imagine if they had 10x more material to work with!

    Parent

    Dean should have done more about the MSM (5.00 / 9) (#95)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:05:14 PM EST
    and Sexism. Yes. The things said about woman with a ha ha ha, should not have been allowed. If Dean had nipped it in the bud in the beginning with the MSM, then I would have respect for him. I would expect the same with racism. Bill is not a racist and was lashed every time he made any statement. I did not hear any racist statements on the MSM and I would not be tolerant of them either. That Dean acknowledged the sexism problem afterwards tells you that he was well aware of what was going on. He could have appeared on Hardball and said 'you guys need to tone it down on the sexism in this primary. Would you be this insulting to your wives, Mothers, and daughters? Treat people with respect as if they are in your shoes.

    Parent
    A Shambles? (none / 0) (#60)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:38:30 PM EST
    Please provide five objective criteria that demonstrate that the Democratic Party is in a shambles right now. From what I see, the party is stronger now than it's been since the post-Watergate period.

    Parent
    You obviously (5.00 / 8) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:43:01 PM EST
    don't remember the post watergate era then. Carter had a 20 point lead over Ford in 1976.

    Some problems: Party is split. Are we going to have enough money for the convention? Delegates are refusing to vote for Obama. Reps refusing to support Obama as the nominee. Reps refusing to go to the convention. Do you think that's good? I guess so.

    Parent

    DO I Think That's Good? (none / 0) (#160)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:56:44 PM EST
    No, of course not. But your evidence is anecdotal, not statistical. While there may be stories involving a few people to illustrate your points, the data indicate that the Democratic Party hasn't been in a stronger position in a generation. Do you not think that's good?

    Parent
    So how are Dems doing... (5.00 / 7) (#68)
    by kredwyn on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:43:06 PM EST
    with those campaign promises from 2006 about ending the war in Iraq?

    Parent
    Five objective criteria? (none / 0) (#174)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:21:57 PM EST
    What's this, the criteria police?

    Parent
    "Shambles"??? (none / 0) (#63)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:40:05 PM EST
    By any measureable metric the Democrats are way ahead of the Republicans....

    Obama has a steady lead against McCain according to everyone including Rasmussen, whose polls have typically been the most favorable to McCain. Polls show an all time high advantage by Democrats over Republicans in party ID;  Polls show more enthusiasm by Democrats than Republicans.  All fundraising totals revealed to date show McCain anemic and Obama very very strong.

    If you do not like polls, but want to focus on actual elections, take a look at the three special House elections in deep red states--all three taken by Democrats....

    I know some Hillary supporters want Obama to fail....but most do not.


    Parent

    We certainly (5.00 / 7) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:47:00 PM EST
    are in better shape when it comes to house and senate races but not necessarily when it comes to the presidency. Party id really isn't going to mean a lot of lots of the party members aren't going to vote for the nominee does it?

    Do you realize that those candidates in those deep red districts threw Obama under the bus and ran over him several times? They wanted nothing to do with him and so far have refused to endorse him for President. They even called it an attack on their candidacy whenever Obama was even linked to them.

    Parent

    You said the party was in shambles (none / 0) (#110)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:19:05 PM EST
    Yes, I know, I know, Obama will lose, lose, lose, and he is evil, evil, evil....

    But the reality is that Obama is actually doing well.  

    Parent

    Never (5.00 / 9) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:34:21 PM EST
    said that he was evil. I happen to think that he's just a very weak candidate, I mean, gosh, when you have to have the party elite put you on a stretcher and roll you over the finish line it really doesn't bode well for the candidate does it?

    Parent
    he's got serious troubles (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Salo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:35:15 PM EST
    id prefer it if he had a fat 15% lead and was consistently polling over 50%.

    Parent
    Organizations (5.00 / 5) (#72)
    by Nadai on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:46:15 PM EST
    with leaders who communicate openly and regularly are usually not awash with rumors, because following rumors isn't necessary to know what's going on.  Those who conduct important business behind closed doors, with no explanations ever given for the decisions made, positively invite rumormongering.

    Parent
    Correct (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by 1jane on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:09:14 PM EST
    The paid field organizers in each state working for the DNC have trained every Democratic County Organization in my state. Because of that training we have many many volunteers who know how to generate walking routes for canvassers, can identify small neighborhood groupings of 25 Democratic, Independent and in some cases RINO's. They taught the Democrats how to run more effective meetings, how to plan strategically and more. If I need research on a candidate we are running against it is provided. If one of us has to go on a radio talk show we've had media training. Yeah, that Howard Dean is just awful isn't he.

    Parent
    That's not what Ga6thDem said (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:35:57 PM EST
    His/her point is that because of the stupid things we know Dean has done, almost any stupid rumor about Dean has credibility now.

    Parent
    I blame Obama (none / 0) (#27)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:06:08 PM EST
    for the rumors.....

    Parent
    I couldn't find it either (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:32:01 PM EST
    I seem to remember it was at confluence but I couldn't find it...but I know he is against a brokered convention.

    [Because I don't think we can afford to have a brokered convention -- that would not be good news for either party." ]

    He's an Obama supporter and the new Dem platform is 'no drama' in other words no dissension or opposing positions.  Multiple votes may not reflect well on Obama so if they can't get guarantees from delegates they will vote for Obama on the first round, they will prevent it.

    Dean's priority is to get his candidate elected.  Obama had a very weak finish, Dean can't afford to have him furter damaged.


    Parent

    Of Course (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:47:51 PM EST
    Dean is an Obama supporter. Dean is the chair of the party and Obama the presumptive nominee. And of course his job is to get the Democratic nominee elected in November. I can't imagine that you find anything sinister in that...

    And of course Dean would be against a brokered convention. Ever since the rise of television and the advent of the primary system, the nomination has always been determined BEFORE the convention. No chairman of either party would want the nomination determined by a backroom deal brokered at the convention with a national television audience watching. That's a formula for defeat in November. That's just common sense...

    Parent

    So they broker the nomination... (5.00 / 6) (#96)
    by santarita on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:05:28 PM EST
    before the convention.  Pay no attention to the people behind the curtain.

    Parent
    Sinister Dean (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:32:28 PM EST
    Dean supporting the presumptive nominee (remember, no one's the nominee this year until there IS a vote) after the convention is fine.

    Supporting him since January is the problem.

    Not that any icky things like rules would stop him, but don't the rules require a vote?  Does anyone know?

    Parent

    Two Points (none / 0) (#177)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:27:31 PM EST
    1. Few people outside of diehard Clinton supporters would conclude that Dean has supported Obama since January.

    2. Dean would be guilty of political malpractice if he waited until after the convention to fully support his party's presumptive nominee.


    Parent
    Best I can tell (none / 0) (#42)
    by stxabuela on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:20:22 PM EST
    the rumor was started by Lyndon LaRouche, the poster child for conspiracy theorists.  This is the guy that believes the Queen of England is the head of an international drug cartel.  There will be a roll call vote, count on it.  

    Parent
    Nothing Gained (none / 0) (#43)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:20:50 PM EST
    There is nothing to be gained from having a roll call vote for Clinton, other than potentially humiliating her by rubbing in the fact that she didn't win the nomination. That would be divisive. It would make more sense to have someone put her name in nomination, followed by a couple of laudatory speeches celebrating her and her campaign. Then someone could make a motion from the floor indicating that she wants her name withdrawn from consideration because she has endorsed Obama. Then Hillary Clinton gets to make a high profile speech thanking everyone for their support and endorsing Obama. Then the roll is called with Obama the only one on the ballot. It will be rigged for some favored state -- maybe Illinois -- to put him over the top. Then the place will explode in confetti and balloons for the audience at home.

    Parent
    I disagree, Spike (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by stxabuela on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:40:26 PM EST
    The pledged delegates are at the convention supporting their preferred candidate, whether s/he wins or loses.  Normally, the winning candidate's home state gets to cast the votes that put the winner over the magic number.  Only then do the delegates pass a motion to elect by acclamation.  It's the official show of unity, and it will happen the same way this year.  

    Parent
    We Will See (none / 0) (#83)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:55:20 PM EST
    But I predict that in a show of party unity, Hillary Clinton will release her delegates and encourage them to vote for Obama before the calling of the roll. This will be choreographed in a manner that accords Clinton the respect she has earned. Nonetheless, there will definitely be more than a few who will still vote for Clinton.

    Parent
    I really don't get it (5.00 / 4) (#168)
    by blogtopus on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:10:09 PM EST
    but how long has it been necessary to show complete and utter bowing and scraping before the other candidate to show party Unity? Let Hillary show her delegates the respect they showed her, let them stand united in their support. Releasing them before the vote? If Obama is interested in Unity, let them BOTH release their delegates; there's no need for him to hide behind them if he's such the Uniter.

    There's no need to prostrate ourselves at the altar of Obama; he still has made no movement to earn our votes, nor Dean.

    Parent

    Please (none / 0) (#189)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:46:26 PM EST
    I get the impression that some people on this site have never watched a political convention. The first thing to understand is that it is a television show for the party to make it's a case to the American people. And it is in everybody's political self-interest to present a positive image. Obama wants to send a clear message that the Democratic Party is united and excited about its prospects in November. Clinton wants to publicly demonstrate that she is a team player and has set aside any disappointment from the primary season to fully support Obama. And Dean wants to show that he has helped the party to navigate the acrimony of the primaries to a united front in Denver. This has nothing whatsoever to do with bowing and scraping and everything to do with burnishing the Democratic brand.

    Parent
    They are worried that if there is (5.00 / 7) (#86)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:56:46 PM EST
    a vote, she will win it. Lots of buyers' remorse among the early Obama delegates. The DNC doesn't want anything to make their chosen nominee, that's chosen not elected, look weak. Having people wonder if he is going to get the delegates he needs makes him look weak. Which, in my opinion, he is. But the DNC seems to have gone with the "eliminate the competition so he looks good" gambit that Obama has used successfully in the past. To do that, they have to make it look unanimous. Note the word "look". Politics aren't about policies and facts anymore, they are about appearances. How something looks is more important than what something actually is. The problem with that is that we need someone who knows what actually is to deal with the problems. No one in the DNC seems to realize this. Including the candidate of their choice.

    Parent
    Maybe not even win it (5.00 / 5) (#144)
    by Valhalla on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:41:08 PM EST
    All there needs to happen to embarrass Obama, Dean, and the DNC is for some significant number of states to go with Clinton.

    It will just highlight the fact that the Unity Pony is just a showhorse.

    If they want a big show of Unity, they'd be better off actually listening to what Hillary wants for her supporters.  Then I'm sure she'd participate in their Unity Reindeer Games.  But oops, I forgot, she must be destroyed and humiliated, or that's not true Unity.

    Parent

    Democratic Party, Inc. (none / 0) (#26)
    by santarita on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:05:45 PM EST
    The various committees remind me of subsidiaries and affiliates of a holding company.  I realize the unfortunate reality that this intricate web of committees is driven in large part by byzantine campaign finance requirements.  The Obama Campaign seems to have amassed a large fund.  Why not have it lend funds to the Denver Committee so they can have a big party in Denver?

    When I looked into  some of the apparent conflicts of interest in the Republican Congressional Campaign funds for various candidates, I was astounded at how much money comes into the candidate and then PACs that they control.  And how funds get shuffled around where needed.

    There is way too much money involved in our major political parties and money corrupts even the best.  I don't know what to do about it other than refrain from contributing to any person's campaign because I have no idea where that money will end up.

    Kevin Drum (none / 0) (#111)
    by smott on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:19:06 PM EST
    Says we should look in the mirror...

    The comments from a group I used to respect are so very disheartening

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_06/013907.php

    I started for awhile to count the myths (Bill went on Limbaugh, Hillary accepted that FL wouldn't count, Bill said SC was "too black")

    But got too depressed....

    The myths are growing (none / 0) (#129)
    by dianem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:29:42 PM EST
    Like any rumor, it grows with the telling. The internet is one big game of "telephone". Did you play that as a child? You would get a group of about 20 people and start with an innocuous statement. Each person would whisper it in the ear of the next person. At the end, the last person would say what they had heard, and it invariably was totally wrong. Urban legends work that way. People get an e-mail and forward it to somebody, and the person who reads it assumes it is true because they heard it from a friend. They often add some kind of assumption, like a comment that the media aren't reporting this so that they don't cause a panic, and then forward it on. As more people get the news from friends and more assumptions and minor modifications get thrown in, the story changes, grows.

    There are dozens of urban legends about Clinton. They won't go away - ever. They will grow, just like the legends about Reagaon - that he ended the cold war, that he never raised taxes, that he led the Republican Revolution. Memes are powerful. I post truth on a few sites, but they write me off as a troll, because I'm saying things that they "know" to be untrue.

    Parent

    So what do we want? (none / 0) (#138)
    by smott on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:35:50 PM EST
    A) A Pres McCain with a stong Dem Congress in opposition (assuming Pelosi, Reid et al look up what that means in the dictionary) while the economy tanks and gas is 5$ a gallon?

    B) Or a weak & inexperienced Pres Obama, and a Dem Congress while the economy tanks and there's a gas crisis?

    Hint: we tried B) in 1976

    That is exactly (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:43:43 PM EST
    my first reason why I thought Obama was a bad, bad, idea.  

    The economy is tanking and he and the Democrats will be Carter-ified....especially since Carter was pretty prominent in Obama's campaign.

    Bill Clinton, on the other hand, is known for good economies (whether he deserves the credit or not). Hillary might have some teflon in that area.

    Now that the Democrats have made the weaker choice, it's best to have divided government.

    Parent

    That's precisely why I voted for (5.00 / 2) (#217)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:14:30 PM EST
    Hillary.  

    Tanking economy (and it's going to tank hard).  She had the best advisor sitting right by her side:  The guy who navigated the last tanking economy and got good results.  


    Parent

    What about C) (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Rashomon66 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:55:40 PM EST
    How about:
    C) Vote for a candidate who will put Universal Health care on the table, attempt to actually save Social Security, attempt to get us out of Iraq and put two Liberal judges on the Supreme Court...to name but a few things.

    Why are so many Democrats willing to give McCain a chance? Reminds me of the Nader supporters in 2000 who said there was no real difference between Bush and Gore and that Bush would be gone in 2004 anyway. Please consider the fact that the entire executive branch will be controlled by the party that wins. It's time for Democrats to thrive - not merely survive.

    Parent

    How about...? (5.00 / 4) (#202)
    by otherlisa on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:06:27 PM EST
    Obama and his Chicago Boys by Naomi Klein.

    Which is worse, the enemy you know or the one who pretends to be your friend?

    Parent

    I love how (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:12:00 PM EST
    everyone keeps trying to portray Obama like it's going to be a greener, more irresponsible version of Ferris Bueller home alone with a fully stocked bar and the keys to Dad's Jag.

    You think he just might have the modicum of common sense required to insure that he's surrounded by alot of highly experienced, emminently qualified people with tons of policy making experience (rumour has it there are even a few who's names aren't Clinton)?

    Or is the idea that things are so screwed at this point that nobody can do anything about it, so it's best to let the Thugs take the blame?

    Parent

    Race Baiting (none / 0) (#198)
    by Spike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:02:21 PM EST


    I'm signing off now that the 200 (none / 0) (#215)
    by tree on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:33:14 PM EST
    limit is reached. I made a suggestion. You most obviously chose to ignore it. Its your right to do so, just as its my right to make the suggestion. 'Nuff said.

    So when are we going to kill Robert Mugabe (none / 0) (#218)
    by daryl herbert on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:15:00 PM EST
    and liberate Zimbabwe?

    che did you say? been there, done that. (none / 0) (#221)
    by hellothere on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:35:28 PM EST
    this is so 1960s! dang i tought they were talking about change. bill ayers? 1960s, 1970s! guess i better get those 78s back out. we are going back in time.

    Go Red Sox (none / 0) (#223)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:49:32 PM EST
    Just because life isn't all Obama or all Clinton all the time.

    We blew it when we let them get away with it (none / 0) (#226)
    by chopper on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:29:36 PM EST
    We could have had another 8 years of Clinton Peace & Prosperity.

    And, we could have had another run of the GREATEST ECONOMIC EXPANSION IN HISTORY.

    Obama put down Clinton's economy, so good luck.

    But, we couldn't overcome the corruption.

    Pelosi said, go with the "will of the people".

    We didn't.

    I can't think of anything more representative of the "will of the people" than the People's Votes, which Hillary won.

    Instead, we allowed someone to take the delegates through the use of fraud and force in the caucuses.  Clue: It wasn't Hillary.

    We allowed "them" to steal this election right out from under us.

    Now, our only hope is that the presumptive nominee implodes. Thankfully, there is plenty out there to cause an implosion.