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Clinton Statement On Solis Doyle

NYTimes:

“Patti will be an asset and good addition to the Obama campaign. After nearly two decades in political life, she brings with her the ability to tap an extensive network that will be a huge asset to Senator Obama. As Senator Clinton has said, we’re all going to do our part to help elect Senator Obama as the next President of the United States," said spokesman Mo Elleithee.

Hmmm. Hillary is fine with it publically. If the Obama gambit was to have Clinton stoically stew, and then say "see, not a team player," it did not work. I say the discussion of Hillary as VP takes an uptick now. Was that Obama's goal? Personally, I doubt it. He is still between a rock and a hard place on the VP issue imo.

by Big Tent Democrat

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    Would expect nothing else from Hillary. nt (5.00 / 11) (#1)
    by Joelarama on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:12:45 PM EST


    Uptick, Yes (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:15:13 PM EST
    Check

    I have one question (not snark). (none / 0) (#148)
    by magnetics on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:26:54 PM EST
    Did he really flip her off, as indicated in that (now) famous video clip?  Answer that, and you'll know whether or not she is in consideration for VP.   My first response was, 'No he didn't, it was an accidental motion that was blown out of proportion in a hyper-partisan environment.'

    Well, now I'm not so sure, particularly because (I gather) the finger in question got a huge roar from the audience.

    I am not snarking or being cynical-- I just want to know the answer.

    Parent

    Yes. (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by ghost2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:48:19 PM EST
    His body language left no doubt in my mind.  His media apologists won't cover it.  

    Dusting (Hillary) off his shoulders wasn't much better, either.  You think the guy capable of that wouldn't do the finger move?

    He is a complete Bush.  I am now getting worried about three branches of government in another petty bully's hands.

    Parent

    He not only flipped the finger.... (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:58:49 PM EST
    He also brushed her off his shoulders/back and cleaning the s*t off his shoes while the background music was "I got 99 problems, but the b**h ain't one..."
    I would say, YES, he meant it!
    The new campaign statement that they can win the election without Fla. and Ohio, is more of the same, childish ruse.
    This is "transcending old politics"?
    By gosh, how DAUNTING even the "thought" of Hillary is to them! The BOOGIE-(WO)MAN!
    The only way I would acknowledge the O camp (to the exclusion of none) is OVER Hillary, is to see they completely ignore her. As long as they are not indifferent, they ain't over her!

    Parent
    Not dispositive (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:15:18 PM EST
    She'd get nothing out of releasing any other reaction.

    Of course, I'm not sure about the political implications of this statement.

    She Could Have Said Nothing (5.00 / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:17:54 PM EST
    I disagree... (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:17:17 PM EST
    If she said nothing when asked they would be hyping it up as "sinister Hillary", or "what underhanded trick does she have up her sleeve now."
    Either way d*n if she does, d*n if she doesn't.
    See Jeralyn, even as some of us solid Hillary supporters could begin to entertain voting for the democratic presumptive, they take us two steps backward. It's a very difficult situation.

    Parent
    I suppose, yeah. (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:19:36 PM EST
    Sen. Clinton is (5.00 / 8) (#41)
    by PamFl on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:34:21 PM EST
    playing by the book. She's killing him with kindness. It's the best way to deflate a passive aggressive personality.
    With his personality, I don't think he would like to share the historical moment or the limelight.

    Parent
    Damning with faint praise (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:42:07 PM EST
    "An asset and good addition".  That's what one says about a low-level person who has performed ok, maybe.  A person who happens to be able to tap HRC's network, which will be a "huge" asset to Obama.

    I'm a bit surprised they released something so cold by way of being lukewarm, but maybe this is intended to be read correctly by a few while passing as positive for the rest.

    Parent

    Battle of the Network Stars (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:19:48 PM EST
    "Patti will be an asset and good addition to the Obama campaign."

    Calling someone previously in an advisory position an asset or a good addition is a diminishing compliment, a backhand at the new hire and a backatcha at the campaign. It's a more elegant way of saying, "You deserve each other."

    she brings with her the ability to tap an extensive network that will be a huge asset to Senator Obama.

    Good freakin' luck getting rapidly returned calls from Clinton's contacts. Networking rule: when you want to flex, dangle the database.

    As Senator Clinton has said, we're all going to do our part to help elect Senator Obama

    Don't expect anything special, or above and beyond; she'll life a finger to help. There you go.

    One woman's opinion.


    Parent

    Seriously (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:22:12 PM EST
    she brings with her the ability to tap an extensive network that will be a huge asset to Senator Obama.

    Good freakin' luck getting rapidly returned calls from Clinton's contacts. Networking rule: when you want to flex, dangle the database.

    I can hear the phones slamming down on their receivers already.

    Parent

    These are cultivated contacts, not 1st-timer email (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:39:49 PM EST
    It's also a velvet gloved iron fist reminder to the party. Obama's vaunted collection of cold email addresses from untried new registrants that had Donna Brazile wearing a drool-cup as a "neutral" party spokeswoman is easily 3/4 disposable for longterm use.

    The network Clinton's talking about is hardcore, tried and true.

    She's (probably) just sayin'.

    Parent

    but, but they are no longer needed (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:51:50 PM EST
    or wanted so we are told. i take them at their word.

    Parent
    Ha! (took me a second) n/t (none / 0) (#73)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:56:22 PM EST
    Sufficiently classy yet markedly tepid (5.00 / 6) (#119)
    by davnee on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:46:36 PM EST
    This statement really says nothing.  Which is good for HRC.  Don't play Obama's game.

    Parent
    She's a pro, he ain't (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:08:46 PM EST
    When you say political implications, (none / 0) (#15)
    by ahazydelirium on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:22:54 PM EST
    are you referring to the political fortunes of Obama or Hillary? I can foresee nothing negative in regards to Hillary, as this is in keeping with her endorsement.

    Parent
    I'm starting to get the feeling that Obama (5.00 / 10) (#4)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:15:38 PM EST
    is deliberately pushing Clinton to see if he can get her to the breaking point - where she will have no choice but to rip him a new one...and then he can say, "See, I told you she wasn't right for the job!"

    It's very, very passive aggressive, but quite in keeping with much of what we have seem from Obama.

    It does seem the political equivalent (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:17:14 PM EST
    of throwing spitballs, honestly.

    Parent
    Maybe Not (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:21:07 PM EST
    I wonder now if Hillary was given the heads up on this prior to announcing Doyle's position.

    Parent
    I am hoping that she did. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Burned on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:23:23 PM EST
    Makes No Sense Otherwise (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:27:51 PM EST
    He does want to win the election, and Hillary is clearly a powerhouse on the team, veep or not. The other explanation, just seems hard to believe.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:46:29 PM EST
    I think the wants to win the election but hasn't a clue as to how to do it. His primary run was a disaster even though he managed to win. He's ignoring the fact that the press has made this all about race.

    Parent
    It's comments like this (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:16:27 PM EST
    that absolutely blow me away.

    Barack Obama's primary campaign was a disaster?  On what absolutely absurd metric do you base that assertion on?  

    Parent

    I'm talking (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:30:19 PM EST
    about the consequences it's already reaping for the general election. He's given McCain so many clubs to beat him over the head with it's not even funny.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#75)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:56:39 PM EST
    "His primary run was a disaster even though he managed to win."

    geez, so what was Hillary's?

    This is just precious!

    Parent

    HRC's run was a loss (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:03:45 PM EST
    Obama managed to win a hair-thin victory by alienating large swaths of voters he'll need in November.  I think it's a D year and this won't matter, but it's reasonable to fear McCain and view Obama's primary run as Pyrrhic.  

    Incidentally, "precious" is uncivil.  Read the posting rules.

    Parent

    Do you (5.00 / 5) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:14:57 PM EST
    realize that there are consequences to what he did? Apparently not by your post.

    And having Pelosi Dean and Kerry push wheel him over the finish line in a strether is surely not very inspiring.

    Parent

    Right (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:17:14 PM EST
    Obama cheated.  Of course.

    Parent
    No they didn't (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:33:50 PM EST
    Obama had the most delegates.  Pretty simple.

    Parent
    mebbe (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:29:36 PM EST
    There is a chance that this was really just an elaborate setup for Obama to choose Hillary as VP. I doubt it, though.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:32:57 PM EST
    Like a surprise b'day party. One can hope.

    Parent
    More Reasons For Doubt (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:28:53 PM EST
    From The Hill article "Obama meets to mend rifts with CBC leaders"

    As the campaign ended, some female members pushed in a CBC meeting for the caucus to recommend Clinton to be Obama's vice presidential nominee. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.) shot down the suggestion. Clinton supporters in the caucus also disagreed with emphasizing the "historic" nature of Obama's nomination, but they were overruled.
    ...
    Clinton booster and Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson urged the Black Caucus to push Obama for the ticket, but that suggestion was shot down in a CBC meeting by Jackson and publicly by CBC Chairwoman Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-Mich.).


    Parent
    What is Jackson's problem? (5.00 / 6) (#133)
    by standingup on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:59:20 PM EST
    I was very disappointed with his attempt to strong arm Emanuel Cleaver.  The members of the CBC who supported Clinton are not the type to be pushed around.  Many of them know the help they received from the Clintons and how it is better to try to bridge this gap instead of creating a further divide.  

    Parent
    It Is Just Chicago Politics At Its Best n/t (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:15:28 PM EST
    Gee, thanks JJ, Jr. (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:05:55 PM EST
    For your typical divisive BS. So sick of him.

    Parent
    I'm sure she knew of it (none / 0) (#21)
    by ahazydelirium on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:24:11 PM EST
    before it was announced. Whether she was given the information freely from the Obama campaign is another question entirely.

    Parent
    Perhaps it was her recommendation (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:32:33 PM EST
    If she doesn't want to campaign for him (seems she has lots of other good people who could use her help), maybe this is how she is doing all she can to help his campaign.


    Parent
    But they aren't (supposedly) on speaking terms (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:58:57 PM EST
    Why ever would HRC recommend her?

    A lot of people think she's a main cause of HRC's campaign's failure - see e.g. the $25 million.

    Parent

    Plutôt éléphant blanc? (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:24:51 PM EST
    - white elephant as one says in English?

    Parent
    I usually cheat (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:46:42 PM EST
    I sometimes write out the html - ampersand then egrave; or whatever - but it's easier to cut-and-paste from an online text, say via google.

    Trojan Horse is very unlikely because that would mean the apparent bad blood with HRC was a very devious scam.

    Parent

    Use Win Character Map (Accessories, Syst Tools) (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:03:26 PM EST
    Point and click and it's on your clipboard.

    It's got everything: int'l letters, copyright & trademarks, dipthongs, tech symbols ... go crazy!

    Parent

    Ok, so I can't translate (none / 0) (#182)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:27:15 PM EST
    most of that, but "un poney d'unite" had me rotfl.

    Most things sound better in French, don't they?

    Parent

    Nah. They just hate her. nt (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Joelarama on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:17:21 PM EST
    I don't think it will do obama any good. (none / 0) (#99)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:22:19 PM EST
    Hillary is much too smart for those amateur tactics.  However, I am sure she is having a great time watching obama trying all he can to get her to break, or whatever his ploy is.

    Parent
    the best way to handle a passive (none / 0) (#190)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:53:10 PM EST
    aggressive personality is to find the nearest exit and head through it.

    Parent
    They spoke for one hour. (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by pie on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:18:24 PM EST
    I'm leaning towards BTD's uptick.

    That would make me sooooooooooooo happy (even though she should be at the top of the ticket. :)

    Who and when? Do you mean the meeting (none / 0) (#12)
    by Joelarama on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:19:43 PM EST
    that was at Feinstein's house?

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#86)
    by pie on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:07:27 PM EST
    They weren't exchanging contacts.  They were talking.

    Parent
    The goal... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Rictor Rockets on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:20:39 PM EST
    Was that Obama's goal?

    It's the only explaination that makes actual sense. Obama's campaign people aren't idiots. They were well-oiled and discipline enough to stand up against an absolute powerhouse like Hillary (and it helped that Hillary's side made some major blunders, to boot).

    They wouldn't do this, just to "turn the dagger".

    I think the odds of Hillary getting Veep just went up significantly.

    Doesn't make sense. Solis Doyle (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Joelarama on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:23:23 PM EST
    lost Hillary's trust, apparently in a spectacular manner.  The way to signal Hillary as VP would have been to bring on Ickes in that position.  

    Parent
    To be fair: (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by anydemwilldo on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:51:44 PM EST
    That's the way it was reported, almost exclusively (IIRC) by anonymous sources, and during the campaign.  As always: be very suspicious of "leaks" from within an active campaign, especially juicy ones like this.

    I don't think there's any good information here.  There might be personal venom between the two, or Solis-Doyle might just have been (as someone above mentioned) a sacrificial goat intended to change the media narrative from "collapse" to "turnaround".  We may never know.

    Clearly Solis-Doyle has a history of good relationships with both camps.  So I guess I'm of the opinion that this was genuinely intended to tease a "Is Hillary the VP?" theme in the media.  But a few of her staffers didn't get the memo and blew their tops (anonymously) to the media, so the Clinton campaign had to issue this statement.

    Can I prove that?  Hell no.  But it seems like a sane hypothesis.  Notably, it doesn't require the assumption that any of the involved parties are either stupid or spiteful.  This is the big leagues, and all the players are cynics at heart.

    Parent

    anonymous donors (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by dws3665 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:29:45 PM EST
    like Susie Buell, her best friend, who went on the record to Anne Kornblut in the WaPo? That kind of anonymous donor?

    Parent
    Maybe the Obama camp (none / 0) (#77)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:57:48 PM EST
    has decided that they're having fundraising problems because people think Hillary might be chosen.  So they're sending signals that she WON'T be chosen, in the hope that it'll help with the money train.  The eff-you to Hillary is just a side benefit.

    Parent
    But if that's so, why stick her (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by tree on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:23:58 PM EST
    with a COS she fired? Other than to say, you can be the VP, but WE will make all the choices for you.

    Parent
    Doyle (none / 0) (#36)
    by Rictor Rockets on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:32:39 PM EST
    may have been a judas goat. I can only assume that things weren't as bad between her and Hillary as people assume.

    The other assumption (They did it purely to spite Hillary and all her supporters) seems even more nonsensical to me. Whatever you think of Obama and his campaign, they aren't that tone deaf and idiotic. Qui bono.

    Parent

    Qui bono, you say? (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by songster on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:40:47 PM EST
    But we could ask the same question about

    • why did they shop the RFK assassination comment to the press?

    • why did they insist on taking 4 of the Clinton MI delegates?


    Parent
    I really don't see this (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:24:50 PM EST
    Clinton fired Solis Doyle. If she were going to be chosen as VP, wouldn't she want Maggie Williams to be her COS? Why would Obama's hiring Solis Doyle make it more likely that Clinton would be the VP choice? Is Clinton going to have to fire her a second time? It makes no sense to me.

    Parent
    Not necessarily (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by Llelldorin on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:13:02 PM EST
    Clinton worked with Solis Doyle for sixteen years. According to at least some media accounts, her main problem was that she hadn't run anything as large as a presidential campaign.

    If that's the case, eight years as COS to the Vice President might give her the experience she needs running a larger-scale organization, so that when Clinton runs again in 2016 (as a sitting veep), her team will be a well-seasoned powerhouse.

    (FWIW, I'm an Obama supporter who very much wants the Unity Ticket. I don't want it to unify the Party, necessarily. Rather, I think having Clinton in the next administration will keep the Obama administration from falling into self-congratulatory groupthink. If Clinton had won I'd want Clinton/Obama for exactly the same reason. I also think it's clear that Clinton and Obama are the party's two strongest politicians a the moment, and the swamp that Bush is leaving is deep enough to need both of their talents.)


    Parent

    Hillary has all the (5.00 / 6) (#16)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:23:04 PM EST
    CLASS in the world.

    Yesterday we were discussing the phrase 'heaping coals of fire' on the head of someone who's done the dirty on you.  I think I can say that Hillary's religion is for real not for parade--and her common sense ain't shoddy either.

    If Comments are Correct (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:29:20 PM EST
    That this is Obama campaign's way of offering Hillary a VP spot stripped of any authority or even input, I could hear her now stating, with all graciousness, "I have decided to decline Senator Obama's offer of the Vice Presidential spot so that he and his campaign are free to give every aspect of the campaign and their administration their own unique imprimateur. I will put my full support and efforts behind the campaign for Obama and his Vice Presidential choice."

    Parent
    She can't decline (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:33:55 PM EST
    if he loses, they'll be all over her for declining and destroying his chances . . .

    Parent
    We'll just have to (none / 0) (#61)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:48:52 PM EST
    spread videos all over youtube of the many public approvals she'll get if she declines gracefully.  But the assumption she'll be offered anything is largely fantasy, I fear, but, what do I know?

    Parent
    I think I should just tune out for a while (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by coigue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:23:35 PM EST
    I can't stand all this "will he, won't he" stuff. Better if I just tackle the huge pile of laundry in my hallway.

    See ya.

    yes, I agree (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:40:51 PM EST
    I am sorting through summer clothes to donate to Big Brother Big Sister.  That is far more productive.  The truth is we do not know what this means.  We do not know the extent of the schism between Doyle and Hillary.  We do not know what the heck Obama is thinking, and I doubt he even knows.  

    I think this is one thing we will have to wait and see.

    Parent

    I'm looking at web sites to immigrate to Canada! (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by smott on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:46:27 PM EST
    Very soothing!
    ANd Toronto only 5 hrs away!....

    Parent
    Yeah , you can come (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by sociallybanned on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:58:29 PM EST
    over and do mine once you are done with yours.  

    Laundry, UGH!

    Parent

    Well, no matter what... (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by JustJennifer on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:25:53 PM EST
    she is a team player.  She has been pretty damn graceful throughout all of this.  

    Gutsy and gracious (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Coral on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:09:39 PM EST
    Great combination.

    Parent
    My fantasy (5.00 / 8) (#25)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:26:07 PM EST
    Obama gives a dazzling speech acknowledging that Hillary endured unforgivably bigoted treatment during the primary, that she transformed herself into a hero for lots of democratic voters, that this opened his eyes to the recalcitrant sexism in American society that needs to be addressed, that she won the hearts and minds of 18 million voters, and that she earned her spot on the ticket and in history.

    Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Gore, and others all appear at the announcement event in a huge show of democratic unity.

    Us angry voters forgive and forget.

    The Obama-Clinton ticket would clean McCain's clock and this country would have the most amazing, historic, beautiful administration to show the world.

    That Would Be One For Unity (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:31:17 PM EST
    I imagine that it is coming.

    Parent
    from your lips... (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:32:17 PM EST
    to the flying spaghetti monster's ears!

    Parent
    My goodness, Dr. Molly, (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by camellia on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:32:49 PM EST
    what a dream!   I wish!  But I am afraid that Senator O. is not so kind.  His ambition gets in the way.  

    Parent
    A girl can dream, can't she?! (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:37:22 PM EST
    I am tired of being sad, disillusioned, and upset. I want something positive and transformative to happen. It would be a brilliant move by him.

    Parent
    Honestly -- do you think (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by camellia on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:29:11 PM EST
    she wants the VP spot?  I cannot imagine her being willing to settle for playing second fiddle to this man who is so far beneath her in terms of experience.   Nor happy--it would take a major swallowing down of her pride to do this.  

    But -- I think that she has handled the Solis Doyle thing with grace and kindness, the way she usually does.   After all, Solis Doyle was one of her people and it would have been very disloyal of Hillary to say anything but what she said.  What an example we have here of grace under pressure.  

    Hillary probably is just fine with this (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:29:24 PM EST
    I'd be willing to bet she really is someone who doesn't spend too much time looking in the rear view mirror. She's probably already planning her next venture, and it will be better than what she would have experienced in the presidency. I was raised to believe that when one opportunity passes me by it is only because there is something better around the corner.

    I'm over the hope I had that Hillary would be our next president, though if something were to change that, I'd be jumping for joy. What I am not over is what the Democratic Party has become. I don't recognize them anymore, and I sure don't trust them.

    I may vote Independent candidates downticket, as well.


    Obama is a Delegator (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:32:42 PM EST
    Did you catch this piece in the New York Times?  

    Obama the Delegator Picks When to Take Reins

    After reading this article, I don't think Hillary would be terribly happy working in his administration.  It seems like it would be tons of work and no glory.  

    I actually think Hillary is lover of work (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by Joelarama on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:35:25 PM EST
    (policy, etc.) before glory.  I think she wants the VP slot.

    Parent
    That's a possibility (none / 0) (#49)
    by SoCalLiberal on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:42:44 PM EST
    With $5 a gallon gas, I warm up to the idea.  I think with her as the VP, it'd be almost impossible for him to lose.  If she was Cheney to his Bush, that would actually be a major improvement for the country.  However, I'm not sure that Obama would give Hillary anything of substance and that she would be useful as VP.  

    Parent
    I know Hillary likes to work (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:56:15 PM EST
    but Obama likes to throw people under the bus.  

    From the article:

    Like most presidential candidates, Mr. Obama is developing his executive skills on the fly, and under intense scrutiny. The evolution of his style in recent months suggests he is still finding the right formula as he confronts a challenge that he has not faced in his career: managing a large organization.

    The skill will become more important should he win the presidency, and his style is getting added attention as the country absorbs the lessons of President Bush's tenure in the Oval Office. Mr. Bush's critics, including former aides, have portrayed him as too cloistered, too dependent on a small coterie of trusted aides, unable to distinguish between loyalty and competence, and insufficiently willing to adjust course in the face of events that do not unfold the way he expects.

    Mr. Obama's style so far is marked by an aversion to leaks and public drama and his selection of a small group of advisers who have exhibited discipline and loyalty in carrying out his priorities.

    I dunno, but Bush and Obama sound kind of similiar when you see those words in bold:  small (coterie or group), loyalty...  I think that aversion to leaks was a hallmark of the Bush administration too.  

    I don't think Hillary would be really happy in that position.    

    Parent

    Ha! Isn't that the truth? (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:37:59 PM EST
    That's the first thing I thought too:  This is a guy who isn't qualified for this job.  

    Then images of Katrina flashed through my mind...

    I hope it would never come to that, but that's the type of management you get when you promote someone to a level they can't handle.  

    The biggest problem Bush had with the handling of Katrina is that he delegated it --  and everyone else delegated it too -- so no one was in control.

    Anyway, the handling of Katrina is something that has always bothered me because I'm one of those people who just takes control of things.  I don't care if it's outside of my "job description," I do what I know is right and I just keep on doing it until the situation is under control or someone higher up takes over.  I can't help it.   There's just something in me that totally takes over.  Emergencies make me calm and determined and I'm always trying to think two steps ahead.   (Fortunately, I picked a career with a lot of emergency situations.)  I also realize that a lot of the population isn't like me.  There are a lot of people who would rather sit back and say "It's not my job" or "I'll wait until someone tells me to do this."  In my mind, they can just fire me if I did/do the wrong thing.    

    That article gave me very little faith in Obama's management style.  

    Parent

    i seriously doubt she wants it. (none / 0) (#194)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:57:37 PM EST
    hillary has other fish to fry.

    Parent
    I Disagree (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:49:29 PM EST
    On the contrary, I don't think Hillary is in it for the glory. For a policy wonk, all the work and none of the glory might be right up her alley. Not to mention she would likely be both the first female VP and 8 years from now the first female President. And for those that think a female at 69 is too old to be president, not even close. Since women live 7 years longer than men, if she would be too old at 69 then McCain was too old at 62.

    Parent
    Stop drinking the Koolaid, people! (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by oneangryslav on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:38:08 PM EST
    I just wanted to say I am disappointed by the amount of thinking in the comments section here that comes from the heart rather than from the brain.

    Solis Doyle has been rumored to be moving to the Obama campaign since before the primaries ended.  This is old (like about at least a month) news.  (If you don't believe me, Google it!) The simple explanation is that she is a Hispanic Democratic operative, who the Obama campaign thinks will help with Hispanics.  End of story.  

    Yes We Know That (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:43:11 PM EST
    But the big news, and cause for all the hub bub is that her job is
    the Chief of Staff to Obama's as yet unnamed running mate.


    Parent
    Killjoy! (none / 0) (#53)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:43:27 PM EST
    Yeah, you're probably right.:)

    Parent
    Hillary, as always, is pure class (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by SoCalLiberal on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:39:35 PM EST
    Really she took a lot of stomach punches and backstabs during the campaign and she always handled them gracefully.  I remember Joe Andrew's betrayal and her response to it was very graceful.  His defection hurt more than Bill Richardson's.  Richardson had never endorsed Hillary, Andrew had.  

    This kind of behavior from Obama reminds me so much of Dubya's behavior over the past 8 years, it's almost uncanny.  

    Of course if Hillary is selected as the VP, Solis Doyle could always be moved to another position.

    So when does Solis Doyle start work? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:43:04 PM EST
    Perhaps Doyle is a much better chief of staff than a campaign manager.  But hiring her for this now makes little sense to me.

    Also if Clinton was in on it, it's a bit disconcerting that her friends and bundlers were so blown away by Doyle's appointment.

    All in all, I will say this is still a big f* you.  A terrible PR move.  Clinton loyalists will see this (and at the moment, rightfully so) as a slap to Clinton.  At this point for the Obama team, that should be all that matters.

    I'm fascinated...

    my take, too.... (none / 0) (#67)
    by kempis on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:51:53 PM EST
    Unless she has been working for him... (none / 0) (#69)
    by dianem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:53:43 PM EST
    ...behind the scenes. That kind of thing happens in politics all the time. This is a job, not a cause, for most campaign workers, and they can switch from one campaign to another quite easily. If she had done so publicly it might have impacted her negatively, but now that the primary is over she might be getting the formal job she has been doing since she left the Clinton campaign.

    Parent
    behind the scenes (none / 0) (#87)
    by laurie on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:07:58 PM EST
    I know it's a conspiracy theory -but what if she was working for Axelrod even b4 Hillary fired her?
    I mean they were friends...and it seems she did make Hillary lose...

    Parent
    I doubt it (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by dianem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:49:29 PM EST
    Not impossible, but unlikely. I'm sure that there is a lot of networking even between these career political figures, but I doubt that any of them would risk their career by being a "double agent" and actually sabotaging their candidates campaign.

    That said, if there was a little bit too much networking, that would explain why she was cut off from the campaign after she was fired.

    Parent

    Bingo! (none / 0) (#113)
    by 1040su on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:39:11 PM EST
    This exact thought ran through my mind when I read about this earlier today.  So I had a little talk with myself & decided to put the tin foil away...  But, I don't think it's that far-fetched at all.

    Parent
    COS (none / 0) (#74)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:56:28 PM EST
    Except, until Obama actually wins anything, isn't the COS really a campaign manager?  What else are they going to do?

    Maybe I'm just not really up on what the position means (although even I know it's bizarre to hire a COS for a Veep that hasn't been chosen yet).

    Parent

    No Obama team reaction? (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by zebedee on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:55:03 PM EST
    What's most telling may be that, with all the disunity-enducing coverage that the Obama team has not stepped in to quell this. If this wasn't meant to send negative VP signals you'd think with their new quick reaction strategy they'd have done this by now.

    Black Caucus Pressure OB on Clinton Veep (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by fctchekr on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:58:11 PM EST
    "On Thursday, Obama -- the only Senate CBC member -- will return to try to heal the wounds left over from the primary.

    He is to address a lunchtime meeting of the Black Caucus, facing both his supporters and one-time opponents.

    Obama will likely be pressed on whether he plans to ask Clinton to be his running mate. Clinton has indicated she is interested in the so-called dream ticket. Yet some Obama backers don't want Clinton as the vice presidential nominee. Obama has not answered directly whether he will put her on the ticket, and he may be pressed on why he wouldn't want to pick the former first lady who attracted more than 18 million votes in the primary."

    http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-meets-to-mend-rifts-with-cbc-leaders-2008-06-16.html

    That meating isn't about Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:18:34 PM EST
    It is about making sure he is going to get behind incumbents that did not endorse him (given that new challengers will make a big issue of this).  Politically the representatives that did not endorse him might bring up Clinton as VP, as it helps their chances of realection (given the prenamed challenge of not endorsing the black candidate).

    Parent
    JJ, Jr. Said "No" Per Article (none / 0) (#202)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:10:09 PM EST
    As Obama's national campaign co-chair, it is doubtful that he would be doing this without Obama's approval.

    Parent
    If Obama (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Emma on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:29:12 PM EST
    has electability problems, I don't think HRC partisans are either the problem or the cure.  There are plenty of folks who were choosing between HRC and McCain in the primaries, my sister being one of them, for example.  For them, Obama was not, and is not, a viable choice.  I think HRC partisans are part of the problem, for sure.  But I guess we won't know how much until the day after the election.

    In any event, it makes little sense to alienate voters.  That's the part I don't get.  Don't politicians need voters to vote for them?  Why would anybody write off voters through gratuitously insulting them?  It's not like you're taking a principled stand, or anything.  You're just calling names.  How hard is it to refrain from doing that?  Why wouldn't you want to refrain from insulting people and calling names?  What does it cost?

     

    get over yourself! (none / 0) (#196)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:01:43 PM EST
    just another swipe IMO (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by miguelito on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:31:02 PM EST
    she ran HRC's "horrible losing campaign" but now she's hired!?  This is another passive aggressive swipe, nothing more.  There is no secret plan to have HRC come out as VP and we all unite to vanquish the Repubs, wake up.

    Your reading comp is poor (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:31:27 PM EST
    "Obama hasn't a clue about how to win?" is not what was claimed.

    "What can one say about that except to chuckle?"

    You could disagree civilly - for example by making a reasoned argument - but you could also ignore it and stay quiet.

    "from the inmates around here"

    This is trolling.

    Read the posting rules.

    gee Rilkefan (2.00 / 1) (#117)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:44:35 PM EST
    Please help me with my reading skills.

    Ya see, I saw this sentence - "I think the wants to win the election but hasn't a clue as to how to do it."

    and, silly me, yes, I admit - I interpreted that to mean "Obama hasn't a clue about how to win?"

    Please explain to me where I went wrong, and what Ga meant by that.

    Parent

    Distinct objects are not the same (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by rilkefan on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:55:11 PM EST
    Your argument, if you stand by it, is that x having won the nomination demonstrates x knows how to win the presidency - simply not a logical conclusion.  You were supposedly responding to a comment arguing that Obama's approach is bad, but you ignored the clear point of the argument and refused to engage its elaboration.

    I see you didn't argue my comments about your repeated incivility.

    I don't see any point in responding to your further.

    Parent

    yeah, perhaps a fair conclusion (none / 0) (#146)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:17:46 PM EST
    Winning a nomination, although not the same as winning a general election, is about as close as you can possibly get to the GE experience without actually doing it.

    Y'know - 50 state contests, the same office as the eventual goal. Even the presence of independents and Republicans in the voter pool, though obviously not in the same number as will be in the GE.

    So yeah, I think that winning a nomination, especially against a force such as the CLintons, earns Obama at least the benefit of the doubt that he knows something about winning presidential elections.

    The point Ga was making was that Pelosi et al "pushed him over the finish line" which was a gratuitous insult having nothing to do with reality. And the rather ambiguous charge that there are "consequences" to how Obama ran his campaign.

    But I dont see those consequenses, except in the level of heat of a small number of commenters at sites like this. Obama is ahead in all the polls - popular and electoral, and is winning a normal percentage of democrats.

    Despite what some people 'round here seem to desparatly wish, Obama is not tanking amongst any Democratic constituency, and no one who fairly looks at the political landscape today can conclude anything but that he is in a very strong position, and seems to be continuing to do very well.

    Finally, incivility is in the eyes of the beholder. As an Obama supporter, I am subject to a constant torrent of abuse around here, as is my candidate. Our candidate, I guess I should say.

    I would be thrilled to operate on a civil level. Why not make some pleas to the majority faction round here concerning their own behavior?

    Parent

    Beg pardon but (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:44:44 PM EST
    Pelosi pushing him over the finish line hews fairly close to reality.

    Even MSM with deep Obama-love discussed his 'stagger' over the finish line.  Here is one example, from PBS Newshour.  Here's an international view.  Here's some stagger talk from HuffPo, and we all know how much they love Obama.  Here's one more for fun.

    Parent

    dont quite see your point (none / 0) (#198)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:06:22 PM EST
    If all you are saying is that Hillary finished strong, well sure, thats obvious. Whats with Pelosi or any of the other? What do you mean by that?

    Obama took an almost insurmountable lead in that month of victories. Hillary did her best late but couldnt catch up. We all know that. No one "pushed him over the line" other than the voters who gave him the lead, and those that kept him ahead of her to the end.

    Parent

    Work the Clinton network? (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by davnee on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:41:22 PM EST
    You mean the network of Clinton insiders that flipped their lids today, including the one that used the F word with the reporter from the NY Observer?  Those are the exact people that this move alienates.  Maybe on balance it is a good move by Obama, assuming PSD is actually competent despite just being fired, and her pull with Latinos is real, but I can't believe you are trumpeting the biggest obvious con of the move, which is to enrage the Clinton loyalists.

    I was (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:54:18 PM EST
    talking about winning the general election. The problem is that he thinks like you: winning the dem primary=winning the general election. He's never had a tough race against a republican and it shows. He doesn't nor apparently do you, understand that there are consequences to the way he ran the primary. Besides, what kind of "presumptive nominee" continues to primary races? No wonder the grassroots are revolting.

    only problem Ga (none / 0) (#147)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:21:59 PM EST
    is that the grassroots are not revolting. They are supporting Obama.

    And what does this mean "continues to primary races"?

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:27:57 PM EST
    you haven't been reading about the grassroot revolts then. The reps refusing to endorse Obama etc. It should have been continues to LOSE primary races.

    Parent
    Well He Is Getting A Lot Of Love From TN (none / 0) (#208)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:19:51 PM EST
    especially from Rep. Davis and the Democratic Party chair. Nashville Post

    Parent
    wwtsfq, right now. (5.00 / 3) (#154)
    by wurman on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:33:56 PM EST
    Sen. Clinton still has 1,885 delegates at the convention.  The Obama-crats want her to bow out, totally, now.

    Dr. Dean's prescription is "no Hillary Clinton nomination" from the floor.  Get out now, lady.

    Every day the junior senator from New York stands pat, that much weaker the DNC hand will look.  It appears as if the new power brokers will figuratively poke her in the every few days.  She plays along with all of their schemes & [donch'a just love this!!!] behaves very graciously & ladylike----bwahhahahahah.

    Any of y'all wanna' play bluff poker with that lady?

    Yep, they're crazy (none / 0) (#160)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:42:17 PM EST
    Messin' with fire is what they're doing.

    Parent
    maybe they'll ask her for a loan. (snark) (none / 0) (#206)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:14:39 PM EST
    i have read she has substantial funds for the general.

    Parent
    Look (5.00 / 4) (#156)
    by IzikLA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:39:12 PM EST
    I was a Hillary supporter who is 100% voting for Obama.  No way no how am I voting for McCain.  

    However, while that post you are responding to may have been a little over the top, it is a very fair assessment to look at the primaries and see what a weak general election candidate we could possibly have on our hands.  Hillary Clinton won almost all of the major states and major swing states by very substantial margins.

    The fact of the matter is, the flaws of both candidates campaigns are inherent in how they ran them -- Clinton ran a General Election campaign, winning and solidifying her support where she needed to win in November.  Obama ran a Primary Election campaign, doing what he needed to do to win enough delegates to get the nomination.

    That is where we are right now.  It's neither here nor there, but it would be futile to ignore those facts.

    Hate to be critical (5.00 / 3) (#157)
    by SamJohnson on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:40:03 PM EST
    Yes. It was a FU to Hilary. But when Gore has to say what he just said, and Dean apologizes for sexism, and JC Watts and other Black Republicans start saying that they just might vote for Obama, Stephanie Cutter is going to handle Michelle Obama's image and PDS is going to oversee the VP integration (which in retrospect is a real FU to Clinton), and all anyone really wants to do is harken back to the excitement of having Hillary in the race it really does seem like the Obama campaign, not the McCain campaign is flatlining. I'm having trouble finding anyone who even wants to talk about the election at this point. What with all the stuff that is happening in their lives and the acknowledgement that Iran or North Korea might have gotten atomic bomb blueprints. I hear Donna Brazile and Hillary Rosen just got some high paying gigs in telecom. What a coincidence.

    You don't mean to be nasty? Really? (5.00 / 8) (#159)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:40:54 PM EST
    Huh.

    "He is making fools of people like you"

    Is that what makes you so happy?  That he is making fools of people that most would argue he needs in order to win in November?

    How, exactly, does that work - you know, pointing and laughing and gloating - is that your formula for a general election win?  If so, I have to tell you that it's probably not going to work very well - the more names you call, the less likely we are to, you know, actually vote for your guy.

    Were it not for Obama's early caucus wins - and I give him props for working that system to a fare-thee-well - he'd have been dead in the water after Texas and Ohio.  From that point on, Clinton racked up impressive wins in big states that Dems must have in November to win.  He outspent Clinton by impressive exponentials - and still lost - decisively.

    He needed to prevent Florida and Michigan from re-voting, he needed the DNC to make a backroom deal for him, he needed the entire media fleet out there making his case, and even with all that, he came within an eyelash of losing.  But for the strong-arm tactics of party "leaders" and threats from people like Clyburn and Brazile, he'd never, ever, have made it to where he is today.

    When it's that close, and you need the party to help drag you over the finish line, bragging about the "winning strategy" seems to show a complete lack of grasp of reality.

    For months, the man with the winning strategy has used everything he could to get Hillary out of the race - he's not used to actually having an opponent, after all, and it was painfully obvious that he just wanted her to get out of the way and let him win.  But the woman refused to lose - kept winning, and the more she won the louder he called for her to get out.  He did everything but jump up and down and threaten to hold his breath and turn blue.

    It remains to be seen what will happen between now and November - or now and August for that matter.  With the news on a minute-to-minute cycle, those 300+ electoral votes could vanish in the blink of an eye.  No one thought Kerry could possibly lose to Bush in 2004 - so I would be very careful about taunting people who have the power to change the outcome.

    In case you haven't noticed, attitudes like yours are not winning over any voters.

    Anne (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by DJ on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:53:45 PM EST
    Beautifully written.  Thank you.

    Parent
    Really nice post, Anne (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:05:44 PM EST
    Straight to the heart of the matter.

    And it makes sense even with the deleted parent comment.

    Parent

    Thanks, Teresa and DJ... (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:15:05 PM EST
    Sometimes I never know if my rants will make as much sense as I think they do when I'm writing them!

    Parent
    The comment I was responding to (none / 0) (#165)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:56:25 PM EST
    sems to have disappeared, so mine no longer seems to make sense.

    Unless you read it as a response to someone who thinks calling Hillary supporters and those who don't see the genius of Obama's campaign, "fools," and then maybe it does.

    Parent

    You are lying about my words (none / 0) (#210)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:25:13 PM EST
    This is a gross, and unambiguous mischaracterization of what I wrote.

    I said that Obama winning many primary elections, and winning the nomination makes a fool out of those who claim he knows nothing about how to win elections.

    I did not say, or imply, in any way that any honest person could mistake, that all of hillary's supporters were fools.

    I think you should apologize.

    Parent

    You're starting to sound like Bob Dole. (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:31:59 PM EST
    You've had multiple comments deleted for insulting posters; perhaps if you could find some way to present your case without the name-calling, you might get somewhere.

    That isn't all you said, and that isn't the way you presented it - and that's why you are getting the reaction you are.

    You know it, I know it and the American people know it.

    Just stop already - you've made it quite clear how you feel about Clinton supporters.

    Parent

    tben (5.00 / 2) (#213)
    by tree on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:33:00 PM EST
    Your original comment was deleted because it broke the site's posting rules. I didn't see it, but suspect that it was deleted because it contained personal attacks. Your first response demanding an apology was likewise deleted. I saw that comment before it was deleted and can assure you that it was deleted because it was a personal attack. No one here is going to believe that you deserve an apology after making two comments that were deleted for violating the site rules. Why don't you just calm down a bit and give it a rest?

    Parent
    qualifications (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by diogenes on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:11:32 PM EST
    If Solis Doyle is so obviously and extremely unqualified, what does that say about the personnel-judgement skills of the candidate who had picked her for her campaign in the first place?

    can someone explain to me (5.00 / 6) (#191)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:54:15 PM EST
    the logic, or maybe it is the LACK of logic in the Obama supporters who claim he can't put Clinton on the ticket because it would be against his message of new politics vs old.

    Now, who is this supposed to STOP from voting for Obama?  His most ardent supporters who keep threatening Clinton supporters with the supreme court picks?  Are they saying Obama's support with the latte crowd and the young voters is so WEAK that they couldn't suck it up and vote for him with Clinton on the ticket for the sake of the supreme court even though they keep telling Clinton supporters that we MUST or the whole country will be ruined?  Are they saying they would be willing to ruin the country if Clinton is the VP choice?

    That kind of makes their supreme court argument a little weaker doen't it?  When they aren't willing to follow their own warnings of impending doom?

    for the love of pete (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:56:18 PM EST
    Please, please read the original post by BTD.  He said nothing about it being shocking that PSD has gone to work for Obama.

    His point is that by appointing her to be COS to a position that has not even been filled yet signifies a big slap in the face to Clinton.  That is not the usual order of things.

    that lady can't work the clinton network. (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:09:01 PM EST
    she'll be talking to ms dialtone.

    CNN agrees with BTD (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by oldpro on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:16:15 PM EST
    ...at least David Gergen and Candy Crowley agreed that the Solis-Doyle announcement was dumb and counterproductive to the unity mnessage -- especially when Al Gore was talking unity today.

    not a resounding huzzah (none / 0) (#7)
    by dws3665 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:17:26 PM EST
    I don't know what other response would have been appropriate. If they slam her, they say "We were run by an imbecile." If they slam Obama, they're not playing nice.

    Nice, diplomatic, and fine. I don't think it does anything for the donors, however, who were the ones that the Obama campaign have been trying to woo.

    Off the wall thought? (none / 0) (#11)
    by tree on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:19:38 PM EST
    I'm wondering. Could this be the first move in an attempt of the Obama campaign to offer the Vice Presidency but assure that it is either turned down by Clinton, or if she accepts, to assure that they are fully in charge of her campaigning as VP, and assure that she has no power, except as a figurehead?  They could claim to be all unity while either sticking the knife in and being able to blame Clinton for not accepting, or, if she accepts, they've set the terms such that her power is nil in the campaign and in their hoped-for Administration.
    It would be all about image.

    Unlikely (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by ahazydelirium on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:27:17 PM EST
    Keeping Hillary in check is possible from a political point of view, I suppose; however, as per the New York magazine piece, Hillary (and Bill) would overshadow as Vice President the Office of the President. While he might be able to keep her in a figure head position, he wouldn't be able to contend with her image and popularity. That is out of his hands.

    Parent
    Highly unlikely IMO (5.00 / 5) (#56)
    by smott on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:45:23 PM EST
    I think it was another New York Hello for Hillary.

    And while she's saying all the right things publicly and behving with class as always, I really think she'd be smart to stay as far away from Obama and his campaign as possible.

    And she's nothing if not smart.....

    Parent

    how about maybe the obama campaign (none / 0) (#200)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:07:40 PM EST
    just plain screwed up. maybe this lady has some close ties to this campaign that now has little to do with hillary. the most probably answer is usually the one to pick. furthermore if this lady is not that competent, why would anyone want to work with her?

    Parent
    From the first article you posted today (none / 0) (#23)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:25:02 PM EST
    the one in the New Yorker, I don't think Hillary really wants to be asked to be VP.  There were a couple of hints in the article that they don't think the Democrats picked the most electable person.  

    I love how she spoke out quickly about Solis-Doyle though.  Great way to nip all speculation in the bud.  

    I agree; I've always had a hard time imagining (none / 0) (#63)
    by kempis on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:49:48 PM EST
    that Hillary would want VP.

    I'm just befuddled by this. This is no way to either  bring Hillary on board or signal that it won't happen. It does seem passive-aggressive.

    Parent

    Party Unity My Arse (none / 0) (#33)
    by Regency on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:31:37 PM EST
    No, my feelings about the "disUnity" ticket haven't changed. I don't think it will happen, but I still wouldn't vote for it even if it did.

    Besides, you don't hire someone that's been fired for COS. That's a hard job and Patti had a hard job before--she's inept. Sorry, no thanks. If Hillary was VP, that lady would be fired five minutes later.

    Transitional figures (none / 0) (#55)
    by SamJohnson on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:45:07 PM EST
    The Obama camp is waiting for feedback and reaction from his supporters, not Clinton's. If you carefully read what was said by Solis-Doyle about Penn, she wasn't the problem. Penn was. I also see this as one more thing that Hillary has asked to have done on her behalf. It helps lose the stank of Penn but doesn't regurgitate the whole Super Tuesday strategy. It also presents another opportunity for Mo and Hillary to express support for Obama. Just a reminder since Gore is speaking tonight,really.

    PSD was clearly part of the problem IMO (none / 0) (#68)
    by smott on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:53:39 PM EST
    A large part.

    Maggie Williams came on board right before TX/OH and that's when Clinton really began to take off.

    This was a big FU I think.

    Parent

    If only Maggie Williams had come on earlier (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by SoCalLiberal on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:47:31 PM EST
    She was a god send to Hillary.  The problem is she came in too late.  And so much of her first few weeks there were about fixing major organizational problems.  By the time we got to Texas and Ohio, it was too late.  

    If Hillary had put Maggie in charge let's say after New Hampshire, things might have turned out differently.  

    Parent

    Competent? (none / 0) (#59)
    by smott on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:47:58 PM EST
    She spent all day watchign soaps to hear the insiders tell it.

    I always sense something (none / 0) (#76)
    by sociallybanned on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:56:45 PM EST
    is about to happen to disappoint her supporters when I see an email from her campaign.  

    I had to think why?  Then I seen in the headlines this and Gore but I thought wow now all of this.

    Of course Hillary would praise her supporters like Solis Doyle.  Gore only did what he did because it's party politics plus Lieberman endorsed Democrat's opponent "McCain".  Gore/Lieberman aren't much of partners these days, I take it.

    What is his problem? (none / 0) (#81)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:01:57 PM EST
    I don't understand the reasoning behind Obama, or his camp, not wanting Senator Clinton to run with him.

    She is obviously qualified, and garnered a zillion votes.

    Is he afraid of being in the shadows?

    Is Michelle competitive with her?

    I don't think Hillary Clinton would have had any problem running with Obama if the shoe had been on the other foot.

    The more he waits, and the more crappy decisions he makes that must be distasteful to Clinton, the less the likelihood that she would accept.

    Then who's he going to run with? Lieberman?

    He's very (5.00 / 5) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:19:33 PM EST
    insecure about sharing the spot light.  He reminds me more of Bush everyday.

    Parent
    There Is No Rush (none / 0) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:16:02 PM EST
    To the best of my recollection, Vice Presidents aren't added to the ticket this early. A couple weeks prior to the convention is much more likely. You spread out your free press the best you can.

    I suspect tonight's VP rumor will actually be Gore.


    Parent

    HRC as VP (none / 0) (#85)
    by smott on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:05:22 PM EST
    ...goes against his whole campaign message. You can't spend months denigrating the Clintons as the Old Politics and then graft her on to the ticket. I just don't see it happening.

    Fine (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by ajain on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:18:39 PM EST
    Then he can't choose Biden, Dodd, Daschle or Kerry. They have all been in Washington a long time and are steeped in old politics. Biden, Dodd and Kerry even voted for the war. Daschle was a lobbyist. I mean lets just eliminate all the people from the list.

    Webb is a decent alternative but he might have problems with women's groups considering he doesnt think women are fit to serve in the military. Nunn will be a lightening rod for the LGBT community. Edwards is useless.

    The standards you are setting for Obama's VP are ridiculous.

    Parent

    Webb (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:22:41 PM EST
    has turned it down. Warner and strickland have both said no. Nunn would be what? He's been out of office for 12 years now.

    Expect sebelius. I saw a picture of her. Maybe she reminds him of his "typical white grandmother" or something.

    Parent

    The difference is that (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:52:21 PM EST
    the Obama campaign has been harping on Clinton's 'old ways'* for months, and welcoming everyone else you listed to the fold.

    Oh, and you forgot Nunn, evidently he and Obama met and had a great time together.

    * = every time this comes up I think of Carville's question about which didn't you like, the peace or the prosperity?

    Parent

    i think Nunn is a real possiblity (none / 0) (#111)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:36:55 PM EST
    He has already put out a statement, a few weeks ago, that walked back his position of 15 years ago on gays in the military. Maybe that was prep work...

    Parent
    I'm sorry (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by ajain on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:06:48 PM EST
    Nunn fought viciously against allowing Gays in the military and it was because of him that we have Don't Ask Don't Tell. A little statement about re-considering is simply too weak considering his past behaviour.

    Parent
    Nunn is a deal-breaker for me (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Coral on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:15:48 PM EST
    I can vote for Obama, but not if he

    a) picks a Republican (Hagel?) as VP
    b) picks Nunn.

    Parent

    Everything old is new again. n/t (none / 0) (#124)
    by tree on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:52:06 PM EST
    webb's remarks on tailhook and women's service (none / 0) (#125)
    by moe21885 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:52:15 PM EST
    were made nearly 30 years ago. He's apologized for them since. He's also the kind of "Reagan Democrat" folks seem to love around these parts.

    Parent
    Tailhook (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by dws3665 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:41:45 PM EST
    happened in 1991. It would be truly amazing if Webb was commenting on it in 1978. His powers of prescience would truly merit him a spot on any ticket. His 1979 comments were not about Tailhook, they were about his belief that women couldn't perform in combat. His 1992 "witch hunt" comments about Tailhook were consistent with these views and generally contemptuous of women's ability to seek justice within the military justice system.

    Webb is good on many issues, and he would appeal to some constituencies, but he would not score well with folks who want Obama to reach out to women's voters (which is not the same thing as picking a woman).

    Parent

    Daschle Also Voted For The AUMF (none / 0) (#214)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:33:49 PM EST
    Along with possible push back from women on Webb, he does not like campaigning and is not particurly good at it and it is my understanding that he is not a team and does not always play well with others. Nunn would definitely turn off a lot of people and since Edwards couldn't deliver for Kerry, I'm not sure why he would be able to deliver for Obama.

    Parent
    Of course you can! (none / 0) (#181)
    by wasabi on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:26:30 PM EST
    "You can't spend months denigrating the Clintons as the Old Politics and then graft her on to the ticket."

    That is rediculous.  Otherwise one would have to expect that those Clinton supporters who for months have been denegrated, would be incapable of switching to Obama.  Give the man some credit please.  He's supposed to be smart with a Harvard Law degree.

    Parent

    Besides the obvious jab at Hillary (none / 0) (#89)
    by ajain on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:11:54 PM EST
    Does anyone else find it weird that Obama hired someone to be the Chief of Staff to the VP? I mean why would he do that? Whoever the VP is will bring in his or her staff?

    Is this another example of Obama wanting tight control over everything and everyone, including his VP? Is he really that conscious of sharing power or being seen as getting over-powered by someone else that he won't even let them hire their own staff? I just don't understand this.

    Also, apparently Solis was responsible for not getting organized in caucus states and spending $140 million by Iowa.

    thats silly (none / 0) (#109)
    by tben on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:33:47 PM EST
    the decision to organize or not to organize the caucus states is a decision made at the highest level - by Hillary herself with her most trusted political advisor (a certain former president).

    It is not wierd in the least that someone is hired to setup the VP office in the campaign. THat is what this job is - to get the office up and running so that when a VP is chosen, they can just drop into a running operation. The campaign would be really dumb not to do this.

    Of course the VP would have his/her own team. At that point PSD will probably do liason between the two camps, or do something else.

    Parent

    i hate to be blunt (none / 0) (#127)
    by moe21885 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:53:07 PM EST
    But no, it's not unusual at all.

    Parent
    Hah! (none / 0) (#100)
    by ajain on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:22:23 PM EST
    Solis was the reason the campaign ran out of money. Solis was the reason the Clinton camp didnt organize in caucus states. Solis deserves a lot of the blame for her gross mismanagement and incompetence.

    Plus, its not like she got a major position in Obama's inner circle or anything. She was brought in as a symbol. She has been given the job of COS of the VP and since there is no VP she will be doing absolutely nothing.

    Not likely (none / 0) (#151)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:29:48 PM EST
    The Clinton campaigned sacrificed her.  To suggest that she was at the root of all their problems is pretty improbable.

    There is more going here than any of us know.  It is entirely possible that Clinton endorsed the move.

    The primary is over, at least it's over everywhere except TL and a few other outposts of Hillary fanatacism.  Obama isn't hiring someone simply to spite Hillary.  

    "Tell Michael, it was just business.  It was always just business."  

    Parent

    Perhaps Obama campaign announcement (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:24:06 PM EST
    of Solis Doyle's appointment was an attempt to make nice with Lationo voters.  That is who was supposed to be pissed off when Clinton replaced Doyle w/Williams.

    Isn't the easiest assumption usually right? (none / 0) (#116)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:44:11 PM EST
    The is a knowledgable person, who obviously is pretty good at what she does, and there are not that many people (and even fewer that are democrats) who have this skill set, so she was hired.   There is nothing else to it.  It was included in a long list of other names.  The "annoucement", was not specific to her.  Why add anything else to it?  I sorta feel like we are in the silly period of hatred, which I guess will mean it should die down soon.

    Just not her. (none / 0) (#118)
    by JayHub on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:46:17 PM EST
    John Adams, the First VP, described the office as "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived."

    John Nance Garner, who became Franklin Roosevelt's VP after losing the nomination to him in 1932, famously described the office as being "not worth a bucket of warm piss."

    Why would Hillary want to spend 8 years doing nothing? That's just not her.

    Cheney made it significant (none / 0) (#145)
    by Coral on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:17:34 PM EST
    A 4th branch of government, no less.

    Parent
    Classic case of overreacting? (none / 0) (#122)
    by KC4847 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:50:33 PM EST
    I'm sorry, but I find this whole thing, well, kind of stupid.  After all, maybe Obama (or his people) already spoke to the Clintons about Doyle and they were fine with it.  Or, Dolis was hired, but maybe more former and present Clinton folks will be joining the campaign as well.  Then again, we don't know, do we?  After all, she could have been hired because she's a friend of David Axelrod.  Honestly, I can't stay mad at everything forever. I'll bet by the time of the convention, we'll see plenty of former Clinton folks arguing for Obama.  

    please (none / 0) (#123)
    by moe21885 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:50:55 PM EST
    Can someone explain succinctly why this hiring of a relatively inside-baseball position is a "slap in the face" to Hillary? I read the Drum piece, and thought it was way over the top. That's what happens after primaries - the staffs merge. There have also been a lot of lower-level transfers that don't make CNN.

    Because Obama campaign has hired (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:53:03 PM EST
    Solis Doyle to be the chief of staff of the yet unnamed VP selection.  If you believe Clinton had a break with Doyle, that would signal Obama won't be selecting Clinton as VP.

    Parent
    S-D is from Chicago (none / 0) (#131)
    by moe21885 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:57:54 PM EST
    And ran in the same crowds as Axelrod et al. They were on different sides of the primary fence but I'm not at all surprised to see her join the Obama staff for that reason, just like Axelrod certainly would've been working for her had the opposite happened.

    I just think its way too speculative to read into the Clinton-Solis Doyle relationship and try to divine some insult here, and I think those who are doing so will blame Obama for anything he does. And regardless, S-D will be in charge of more day-to-day matters for the bottom of the ticket, not the kind of strategy and execution she was responsible for in Ballston. She'll excel in that role just as she excelled as Hillary's chief of staff in the 90's.

    Parent

    So, having done her part to hobble the campaign, (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Calvados on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:54:21 PM EST
    she is now welcomed back into the Chicago political machine fold with Axelrod and the crew?  I was willing to accept it when she left the campaign, but with all the protestations of her competence in this thread, it makes one wonder whether she would have allowed the caucus disorganization without recognizing the error in advance.

    Mere speculation, but it's interesting that she is being put in such high positions given her recent resumé.

    Parent

    Forget it..Roland Martin has spoken... (none / 0) (#134)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:01:43 PM EST
    He was just on CNN and said no way no how will Hillary be VP. I don't know how much insider info he has but he did know that Obama was leaving his church before anyone else in the media did.

    This Clintonista is not outraged. (none / 0) (#167)
    by samanthasmom on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:00:09 PM EST
    Patti needs to earn a living. She works on political campaigns.  Obama has a political campaign. When he selects his VP, that person is going to need an COS. Patti may not be available after he picks his VP so Obama hires her now. Clinton says, "Good for Patti".  So what? I've had people that I needed to let go eventually work for the competition. So what? Sometimes that worked out better for me than it did for the competition.  8^)

    A bundler's opinion is... (none / 0) (#170)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    A bundler's opinion is meaningless. He/she is upset because their fundraising prowess went for naught when Hillary suspended, when they planned on that fundraising getting them a cush job or contracts for their business...such is politics.

    Re #133 (none / 0) (#217)
    by prostratedragon on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 11:32:32 PM EST
    Maybe Chicago politics, maybe also a tendency not to use what he learns in class in a constructive manner, as they might say in my discipline.

    I too disliked his treatment of Rep. Cleaver, and earlier of Rep. John Lewis, who is physically one of the people responsible for the existence of a CBC.

    yeah, the obama campaign (none / 0) (#218)
    by cpinva on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:45:00 AM EST
    just keeps getting better and better. anyone making book on whether it actually survives until august, without completely imploding?

    leadership starts at the top. so far, sen. obama has displayed scant amounts. this is highly indicative of what an obama presidency would look like.

    it ain't a pretty sight.

    Seems to me......... (none / 0) (#220)
    by Kefa on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:24:26 AM EST
    If it were to be Hillary....PSD would be put there to ease the way and to keep tabs on the VP, now with this move.....I'll place my bet early with HRC as VP.