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Open Thread: Respect

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:54:34 PM EST
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Whether you are elated, angry or sad tonight, do us all a favor and show each other and our candidates a little respect.

Personal attacks, name-calling and insults are not welcome here. They will be deleted as fast as we spot them.

Traffic is high, our servers are maxed. Don't be a blogclogger. Share your opinion, your joy or your anguish -- we want to hear it -- but do so respectfully and with consideration for those who hold opposing points of view.

If you can't do that, please comment at another site.

Comments now closed.

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    • Open Thread: Respect | 193 comments (193 topical, 0 hidden)
    This is probably the highest traffic day (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:55 PM EST
    I can remember here. Congrats for keeping it running Jeralyn and BTD.

    It's all me (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:16 PM EST
    Colin and Jeralyn had nothing to do with it.

    I have been running on the hamster wheel for hours now . . .

    Actually, as usual, I do not a darn thing to keep the place running, I just run my yap.

    Parent

    Colin and I have been (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:10:26 PM EST
    going at warp speed all day trying to get the site back up when it crashes and keep it from happening again. It hasn't been easy. We've been at 10,000 page views an hour all day.  

    It will probably go down again at some point but Colin has a knack for getting it back up quickly.

    Parent

    BTD, aren't you equally proud of Hillary? (none / 0) (#28)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:40 PM EST
    Speaking of respect, I just re-read this statement from you earlier today:

    The night of the first debate when only Obama and Clinton were left standing was one of our proudest. And it was not just because of Barack Obama. It was also because of Hillary Clinton. [emphasis added]

    You see, this might give the impression that Obama supporters view Hillary's candidacy has something that is also historic, rather than equally historic. I hope that you might consider telling your daughter(s) that, in fact, the candidacy of of Senator Clinton makes you feel equally proud.

    Parent

    I'm almost as proud of Hillary... (none / 0) (#67)
    by p lukasiak on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:31:17 PM EST
    as i am of BTD!

    you are an oasis of sanity in a sahara of Obama supporters, BTD!

    Parent

    And my witty response was lost! (none / 0) (#31)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:02 PM EST
    Thanks of course to Colin too.

    Parent
    NOT corn-ethanol powered but renewable wind? (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:37:21 PM EST
    ::: shockers :::

    :-)

    But since this isn't likely to come up again soon, if anyone's got rough tech-specs for exerbike-to-bat power I'd love some pointers.

    I used to have a treadmill/laptop surf setup but ditched that big carbon footprint. I'm now trying to rope some poor slob into turning my office chair into a recumbent bike that uses a huuugely renewable energy source -- my big pointless a$s -- to generate power.

    Couldn't begin to guess the toxicity though and frankly, I can't imagine who'd want the job.

    Parent

    Would that be (none / 0) (#199)
    by Arcadianwind on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:16:24 PM EST
    with lithium or NiMh?

    Parent
    Hillary is a champ (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:59 PM EST
    who else could win second place and emerge looking like such a winner? I have confidence she will end this race with total class.

    catfish (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:34:40 PM EST
    You can take that to the bank.  She's as classy as anyone I've ever seen with lots left over to spare.  She's a mensch.

    Parent
    My heart has broken so many times this primary. (5.00 / 13) (#3)
    by Esme on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:01 PM EST
    I haven't been this depressed in a long time. I wish Hillary all the best; she is a hero for all women, she is a hero for everyone who has ever been told they should quit.

    Yes (5.00 / 7) (#8)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:25 PM EST
    I really love her 'for everyone who has stumbled' speech, it brings tears to my eyes and I'm not the least bit sentimental.  She's lived it, she feels it, it's genuine.

    I have no doubt she will come out of all of this ahead, if not as President (although I still want it to go to Denver, not giving up here) then as whatever she wants and needs to be.

    Parent

    For me, that was the best moment of the (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:16 PM EST
    campaign.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 6) (#47)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:23:37 PM EST
    When she said that in her speech, that resonated with me like wildfire.  She had me in tears as well.  I really love this woman.  She's the best example of being an American Woman and Amerian leader and I'm so proud to call her my Senator.  

    I know I'm going to cry this evening.  I had tears in my eyes already reading BTD's post about Obama's historical win and HRC's historical loss.  I'm not a weepy woman but it's been a long and emotionally jarring and exciting roller coaster.  And, right now I'm feeling a bit numb from it all because I wanted a different outcome than the one we have here. I've got so many emotions in me right now.  

    Just a word to Jeralyn and BTD.  I'm a long time lurker and only recently took the plunge but this is one of my fav places over this primary season and thanks Jeralyn and BTD for all your good work and to Jeralyn for giving us this space to chat and vent and celebrate our candidate each in our own way.  H/T and applause to you both.

    Parent

    This ain't over.... (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by p lukasiak on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:38:45 PM EST
    she's not conceding.  She's going nowhere.

    Cry for the country.  Cry for the party.  But don't cry for Hillary, because she's not leaving.

    Parent

    I know she's not (5.00 / 3) (#187)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:05:21 PM EST
    And I never meant to suggest she was.  Forgive me but there are lots of conflicting emotions running through me right now.  And, I've held a lot of it in for months.  

    Give me some space to feel each one of those as I will give you to feel yours.

    I didn't say what you just said but that doesn't mean I don't feel it just like you.  I feel those emotions just as strongly as you.  I am crying for my country.  I am crying for my Party which I've belonged to since I reached voting age and which my family has supported since FDR.

    I'm not supporting HRC because she's a woman if that was your thought.  For me and for most of her woman supporters, her being a woman is the bow on top.

    But, that doesn't mean I cannot or will not cry  at least once for HRC because of the way she was treated, because of how hard she has worked to get where she is now, harder than Obama who imo hasn't earned where he is at right now.  I reserve the right to cry about that and not be asahmed.

    And, it doesn't make me or her weak because of one moment to weep for her and us.  

    I said this last night and I'll repeat it.  I want what HRC wants.  If she wants to take it to the convention that is what I want.  She's deserved that respect from me as well as space for her to make that decision.

    Sorry for this bit of a rant but I guess I don't enjoy being told how I must feel this significant evening.  

    Parent

    I agree. What Hillary wants is what we should (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:19:24 PM EST
    want.  It's not up to us to tell her whether or not to take the VP slot, fight it to the convention floor, stay as Senator from New York or whatever.  It's Hillary's call.  She'll do what is best for her.  She is a magnificent woman, a wonderful person and should be considered a role model for all.

    Parent
    I think its important.... (5.00 / 7) (#79)
    by p lukasiak on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:35:08 PM EST
    that Hillary know that WE want her to do what she wants -- and that HER aspirations are what we support.

    Hillary Clinton wants to be President -- anyone who hasn't figured that out by now is crazy.  So acting like "we" should not be telling her to fight on in the face of the odds is silly.  

    We KNOW what she wants to do.  And we should be telling her its what WE want too.

    Parent

    A song for you, too, Esme (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:45 PM EST
    linked in this earlier comment -- the wonderful Only a Woman's Heart.  

    Parent
    She should be a hero for democrats! (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:27:21 PM EST
    She's a fighter.  We so want a fighter.

    Parent
    Head up Esme, she's in it to win it (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:44:17 PM EST
    No contest is over until the score is SETTLED, and this one's not over until August.

    Every delegate on the record, every i dotted and every t crossed.

    I'm backing Hillary here: she's a champ all the way and all we're seeing here is the kind of people who don't know what it means to reach, to compete, and to win.

    So I'm taking a deep breath, sending some love Sen Clinton's way and letting the impending biggest political losers in history prance around like feckin' eedjits for yet another night before they have to eat their damage.

    Parent

    James Madison (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:35 PM EST
    Don't put Hillary on the ticket unless you get a food taster.  What an idiot!

    My favorite one from tonight (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:59:43 PM EST
    I think it was on FOX.  They were talking about Hillary being VP and Bill and that whole thing.  Someone mentioned that Obama was going to have to deal with it -- and someone else said "If he can't deal with the Clintons, how is he going to deal with Akmenijad in Iran?"

    That was a reasonable question, I thought anyway...

    Parent

    Someone eles has said this also (none / 0) (#15)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:57 PM EST
    unbelievable.

    Parent
    I just want to say... (5.00 / 9) (#7)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:38 PM EST
    this is a huge night for the women of South Dakota.  If they actually nominated a woman for president I appluad the men and women of that state and I salute them.  This is a state that has not been particularly big on womens rights.  If they choose Hillary, it's a very big deal.

    And Montana has gone backward (5.00 / 6) (#48)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:24:59 PM EST
    in history, as it was the first state to elect a woman to Congress, Jeanette Rankin -- in 1915.

    So South Dakota might be a harbinger of a backlash by women, made stronger by the recent battles there about even more birth control restrictions.  

    Of course, the stoopid media won't see that.  But it is enough that we do.

    Parent

    It is funny to watch John Roberts (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:07 PM EST
    and Wolf try to make this suspenseful at this point.

    I'm not going to watch Obama's speech. (5.00 / 9) (#11)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:14 PM EST
    I can't do it. Not tonight. I won't be able to give him a fair hearing. I wish they wouldn't engineer this so that he will clinch beofre she has a chance to finish with a win in South Dakota. Guess I'll have to watch it online when I can handle it.

    Although I don't usually watch anything (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:10:29 PM EST
    but baseball on TV, this morning I was watching CNN during the endless discussion of Clinton "admitting" Obama had the requisite # of delegates.  I got so tired of hearing "BarackObama" (enunciated as one word).  It will be a long five months.

    Parent
    I'm not sad that Hillary lost (5.00 / 14) (#13)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:31 PM EST
    I'm sad at HOW she lost. And truly disgusted by it. I don't know how to articulate the rest of what I feel.

    I know, If it was Edwards or Biden or someone (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:54 PM EST
    winning tonight, I'd be happy for them. It's having a candidate shoved down my throat while another is flushed down the toilet that gets me. I really wish neither Obama or Hillary had run. It has ruined politics for me.

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:20 PM EST
    In the face of an extremely hostile media environment and facing one of the best natural politicians of his generation she essentially tied the race, receiving far more primary votes than any candidate from any party in any prior election.

    Of course, ultimately a moral tie is not the same thing as winning, but she did an amazing job -- especially since Super Tuesday.

    Is there any other candidate who, in the face of the media hostility she faced, could have done as well?

    Parent

    I didn't say it right (5.00 / 6) (#93)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:06 PM EST
    because I'm upset. I didn't mean to imply in any way that it was her fault. Quite the opposite. I meant that the cause of my sadness is not her losing the nomination, but what was done to her and the cause of progressivism in the process.

    Everything you said in your comment is right.

    I'm too sad to articulate anything correctly.

    Parent

    yup she's got reserves (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Salo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:10 PM EST
    almost superhuman performance from her.

    Parent
    Natural politician? (none / 0) (#141)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:13 PM EST
    Reagan was a natural politician.

    That doesn't make him a good choice for president.

    Parent

    Watching CNN with major announcements... (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:38 PM EST
    when each SD announces is pathetic.

    God forbid there would be a major eathquake or something.

    The media is the most corrupt institution in America, yet takes itself so serious.

    Of all the hot air it preaches, 99.9% is manipulation, not information, when it should be the other way around.

    I used to work for CNN (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by kmblue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:47 PM EST
    for all who are disgusted by teh Media,
    I feel your pain and share it utterly.

    Parent
    The new countdown. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:31 PM EST
    for the first time they did .. I thought they were going to say he got nomination... but NO.. it was just another countdown

    Parent
    I did not support Clinton... (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:48 PM EST
    or Obama, but to the Clinton supporters, I offer this advice:

    It is time to resurrect the fight for the Equal Rights Amendment!

    I hope you all push for this to be a demand on Obama for support.  In that, I will gladly join.

    I'm sure that would be the last thing..... (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:51 PM EST
    ....he would be interested in pushing.

    Parent
    But as the campaign has shown... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:25:39 PM EST
    it is something clearly needed.

    No one has made any demands on Obama besides getting elected.

    His rhetoric suggests that he would support it, so why not raise it as an issue?

    Parent

    On a different note (5.00 / 17) (#25)
    by kmblue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:32 PM EST
    This primary campaign has jolted me out of
    my complacency.  I thought women (including me)
    had it pretty good in terms of respect in the U.S. of A.  The scales have fallen from my eyes, and they won't be growing back, my sisters.

    Let's not forget what we've learned.

    Amen to that (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:22:42 PM EST
    I really had thought it wasn't so bad for women, I was over being angry...at least I'd managed to put the issue and pain out of my mind.

    No longer.

    What do we do about it, is my question?

    Parent

    I'm starting with a big Nonvote for Obama and (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:50 PM EST
    the 'New Coalition' of the DNC in November.

    All I can say is that I regret that I have but one vote to withhold from the DNC.

    Parent

    Here is a motto (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:03:22 PM EST
    "No to  the exchange"  No to Chicago Politics.

     

    Parent

    March? (none / 0) (#58)
    by mogal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:28:18 PM EST
    Form a union? I don't know.

    Parent
    If you guys figure out an answer... (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:40:38 PM EST
    to that question, please let me know.

    I have several grievances myself that I am clueless as to how to adequately address without getting locked up.

    Come to think of it...Thoreau, Alice Paul, MLK...I guess you have to be willing to get locked up, no way around it.

    Parent

    I have not (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:40:46 PM EST
    felt the respect for women these last 8 years of republican rule.

    Hillary will still fight for us. She is not out of politics. She will keep the fight going for wowmns rights.

    I have to help her by getting a Dem Congress and a Dem President.

    History will judge them for what they have done.

    Parent

    Yes, I feel very much the same (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by suisser on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:52:13 PM EST
    I have been changed by this contest. I have had to look at how I see other women and I am altered by Hilary and her campaign.  And I always believed myself to be a feminist, maybe not as much as I thought.  Thank you Hilary, I owe you much

    Parent
    Turfing Points Memo: Be Honestly Sincere (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:29 PM EST
    Being Honestly Sincere is the muthah of all panty-droppers

    Big Story (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by uncledad on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:01 PM EST
    This is a big story, we are nominating an african american for president, it would have been equally big if we had nominated a woman. Bottom line is we are witnessing some history here. I think all progressive minded people would be proud at this historic milestone.

    There would be more excitement if... (5.00 / 11) (#49)
    by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:25:35 PM EST
    ...this "big story" hadn't come with the price tag of gross sexism, misogyny and disrespect for Clinton from the media, cheered on by the Obama campaign.  

    There are too many wounds right now -- the FL/MI disenfranchisement issues, the stealing of delegates, the baldly partisan tactics of the RBC, the imbalances of the caucus system vs primaries, the sexism & misogyny, etc etc --  for many people to simply jump up and down and celebrate for the other half of our party.  

    And I don't expect those wounds to heal any time soon, if ever.  So don't expect to see too much enthusiasm just yet.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 5) (#72)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:24 PM EST
    A clean campaign BY THE MEDIA or with pushback on the media BY THE DEMOCRATS would have given me the justification to rally.

    But I have no justification to rally.  In fact, I have better reason to NOT rally.

    Parent

    SO not interested in making history this time (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Burned on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:28:21 PM EST
    Black or white, man or woman. I could care less about that right now.
    I just want this mess GWB put us in fixed.
    Quickly.

    (If six of this comment show up it's not my fault. :) I'm having some trouble here.)


    Parent

    I don't feel the pride, in particular as (5.00 / 4) (#109)
    by LatinoVoter on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:32 PM EST
    a person of color. I can't feel pride in seeing a person of color nominated with delegates earned by another candidate, it is all a bit tainted and dirty. As a person of color who has been told I was a quota or only there because of Affirmative Action seeing that he happily accepted the MI compromise and now presumably has the nomination with votes that were not his makes my stomach turn and feel like any progress made by this nomination is actually a step back.

    Parent
    Yes, that is so sad -- race relations (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:21:05 PM EST
    have been really set back a lot by Obama, we will see.  It probably was to be expected by how clueless he is about the history of this country, especially the civil rights movement, and because he didn't come from the heritage of most African Americans.  I already see some of the fallout from his lack of knowledge.  

    But what is sad is that others will suffer for it --  although those who participated in the bloc voting brough it on, but many others did not and will suffer from the attacks on affirmative action that are coming even more now.  I see it in my workplace, in my state government, and hear it from folks I know in the EEOC; affirmative action laws are going to be made even more meaningless.

    Parent

    dramatics and theater (none / 0) (#198)
    by uncledad on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:15:42 PM EST
    I agree it should not matter, but I believe it does, it shows that maybe this country is finally ready to look past race, and religion, and gender. We have had a history of only a small slice of our society able to assume the highest office, I see this as a real change from that narrow thought process.

    Parent
    Look forward to seeing Obama on his own (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:18:20 PM EST
    so he can speak without people screaming "Hillary stop tearing him down!"

    has Obama ever asked them to stop? (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Josey on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:55:33 PM EST
    lol - just teasing. I know he would never do that.


    Parent
    Me: I'm sad. Not because Clinton (5.00 / 7) (#37)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:18:42 PM EST
    won't be the nominee, but because of brush-off the media gave her campaign, the false attributions, and Obama campaign feeling the need to use race to gain votes.  Yes, it is politics and both are pols to the end.  Still, it saddens me.

    Hmmm (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by PaulDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:18:42 PM EST
    Sorry to disappoint but I was a Dodd guy and came to Obama by default and have never been a huge supporter.  

    I am, however, a yellow dog Dem who wants to lay some whup-ass on the Republicans in November. I see so much dedication from the die-hards on both sides and we could go so far to change things in the country beyond the white house but Senate Congress and local races if we were together.

    Just wanted to point out that no matter how big on Obama person you may be, it's hard to see the passion of the Clinton supporters and not respect that and really wish to be on the same team.

    Yes but (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by kmblue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:18:43 PM EST
    some folks said "Oh, I'd support a woman for President--just not Hillary Clinton."

    So...I'd support a black man for President...just not Senator Obama.

    I've supported 2 black men for president.... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:50 PM EST
    ...already. I voted for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in primaries.

    Parent
    Qualifications (3.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Davidson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:37:54 PM EST
    You do realize that just because both are not white men that it doesn't make them identical, don't you?

    Am I supposed to vote for an unqualified, inexperienced candidate who has run a ruthless smear campaign, invoking misogynistic bigotry, simply because he's black?  Please.

    And this is from a Latino so save your "OMG!  You know nothing about racism!" nonsense.

    For the love of God, Obama supporters: knock it off with this foolishness.

    Parent

    Respect? Not just. (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:26:15 PM EST
    It is also dignity and they are trying to take it away tonight.

    don't you love it when (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:27:05 PM EST
    Tom Brokaw slaps Keith Olbermanndown on MSNBC?  Olbermann just couldn't stop himself from making a nasty comment about Clinton.  But, Brokaw spoke right back at him telling him he was being unfair.  It was great.

    But, I also want to see a list of the super delegates who are now changing from Clinton to Obama BEFORE the polls even close tonight.  That's nothing but tacky.

    You should have just heard my husband yell (5.00 / 0) (#73)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:25 PM EST
    at the TV. The phrase contained the work coward. The rest of it would get me banned.

    On a scale of 1 to 10, his interest in politics is about 2.5. I have zero faith that there will be unity when he is this angry.

    Parent

    Mine declared a long time ago that he was voting (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:38:34 PM EST
    for McCain.  And we are yellow-dog democrats, or were.  I've renounced my party affiliation and will not be giving them any more money.  I support Hillary and that is it.  But hubby refuses to sit the election out and will vote for McCain without any qualms.  He also agrees with me that Hillary should make Obama ask her to be VP, then she declines.  She doesn't need him but he surely needs her.  One way for her to screw him in his opinion.

    Parent
    May be Keith has not yet (none / 0) (#63)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:29:10 PM EST
    received Obama memo on party UNITY.. but once he all of Obama's fanatic supporters start talking about Unity, do you think I will believe them? ofcourse NOT!

    Parent
    I don't think I will be awake till 10:30 to hear (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:27:36 PM EST
    his speeeeeech.  I just wished he had given it earlier.. not today but earlier!

    Money says Hillary gives a brilliant speech (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:29:02 PM EST
    tonight.  We will be crying.  Obama will read something written by someone else and it will contain a lot of the words hope, change, transformation and historic.  Let's see who gives the better speech.

    But see, until tonight is was all tea parties. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:29:02 PM EST


    Gee, amazing that such (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:30:20 PM EST
    an amazing lady is a nasty, dishonest, racist, b**tch.

    Sorry, it's too late.

    All I wanna know is.... (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:37:47 PM EST
    ...why did he try to brush the nice lady off his shoulders?

    Parent
    Bigot (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Davidson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:40:17 PM EST
    You can't combat racism while invoking misogynistic bigotry (Yes, b** is a bigoted slur regardless of how normalized it is in society).

    Parent
    Sad. (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by NWHiker on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:31:36 PM EST
    Throat achingly sad here this evening... with the same sick feeling in my stomach when "we" nominated John Kerry.

    I'd done with the Democratic Party. I'll never vote for the Republicans, but the time when I'd vote for anyone with a D after their name because I though "we" were better than "them" is over. Now... I'm going to learn to leave ovals empty on my ballot. Obama will not get my vote, and there is nothing he can do to earn it any longer.

    I never thought it would come to this.

    We've nominated the Dem equivalent of George W Bush: Barack H Obama, empty suit. No hat, though. And thank heavens, no ranch and no brush to clear.

    Nice rhetoric... (5.00 / 7) (#69)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:32:21 PM EST
    but too many times the actions showed it is empty talk.

    How do you create the impression that people are racists, then laud them?

    It's like Obama supporters on the blogosphere who demonize one day, then call for unity the next.  As if the hate they showed does not matter.

    "We've always (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:20 PM EST
    been at war with Eastasia."

    Parent
    not voting for democrat ticket (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by sociallybanned on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:17 PM EST
    I knew this was coming.  When they had the RBC meeting, I knew something was up.  I'm independent but forced to register as a Democrat and by my history of votes, I typically vote Democrat.  My alliance is with Hillary, however, if she is not on the ballot as a Veep, then I'm not voting Democrat.  If she is on the ballot for VP, I feel sorry for her because she will have to wipe Obama's behind.  He lacks so much experience and that's why my vote will not be for Obama.

    Take it to Denver (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:57 PM EST
    I grabbed this from the Confluence (I would link to them, but they are having issues also):

    Here is a comment from Taylor Marsh that I think is very important:
    ATTENTION -
    Reposted because this is URGENT!
    If you've already done this, then
    GET FRIENDS AND RELATIVES TO DO IT!
    I called the Hillary Campaign earlier to leave a message to urge her to take it to the convention.
    The voicemail was full, so I spoke with a live gentleman who said the best thing for us to do would be to send email to:

    comments at hillaryclinton.com

    When told it was to urge Hillary to fight it to Denver, he said to put "ATTENTION: HAROLD ICKES" in the subject, and again as the first line of the email itself, followed by something as simple as "Take it to Denver!".
    He said it is vital that they hear from us, because they really need to know what we think.
    I told him I would pass it on to my favorite blog as well, and he said "Thanks, boss!"

    DONE! eom (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by dskinner3 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:45:08 PM EST


    Parent
    Done! (5.00 / 0) (#164)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:56:37 PM EST
    Thank you, Waldenpond!


    Parent
    which phone did (5.00 / 0) (#186)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:05:06 PM EST
    you call to?

    Parent
    He ought to admit she is more qualified (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:35:40 PM EST
    and step aside, imo.

    I deleted the reprint of the speech (none / 0) (#89)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:38:06 PM EST
    This space is for comments not reprinting speeches.

    Parent
    About half the other posts now are about something (none / 0) (#117)
    by digdugboy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:43:05 PM EST
    else, too. Don't discriminate. Delete them all. McCain speech on point? No.

    Parent
    Those yappers (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:37:08 PM EST
    on MSNBC are saying Obama will ask Hillary to be VP but only if she promises to turn it down.

    Where's the respect in that, they are suppose to (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by WelshWoman on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:06 PM EST
    do that behind the scenes so the individual leaves with their head held up high and with dignity.

    Offering it after you have told everyone she will turn it down is low class.

    Parent

    Is anyone else (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:48 PM EST
    muting McCain? I'm just waiting for the election primary results.

    he said party elders and pundits (5.00 / 5) (#108)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:28 PM EST
    have decided Obama is the nominee

    Parent
    He's right! (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:47:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Damn right!! (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:20 PM EST
    he is closer to Hillary than Obama.

    Parent
    Obama has to address this (none / 0) (#118)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:43:17 PM EST
    Probably by putting Hillary on the ticket.

    Parent
    not at all (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:42:16 PM EST
    his speech is awesome.. and as thought gives credit to Hillary a lot more than the media has .. and for that matter Obama has as of yesterday!

    Parent
    If you fall for that... (1.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Addison on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    ...your judgment is not worth anything.

    Parent
    thankyou for your esteemed comments (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:11 PM EST
    No doubt you are an Obama supporter looking at your tone..

    btw: If you listen to MCain with an open mind you will see he is thrashing Obama.

    Parent

    Addison, Jeralyn asked us not to... (none / 0) (#169)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:46 PM EST
    ...insult each other.

    Parent
    well, he just spoke (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by rise hillary rise on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:43:01 PM EST
    more respectfully and nicely of HRC in 2 sentences than Obama has  of her in the ENTIRE CAMPAIGN.

    Parent
    No, I'm listening (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:45:44 PM EST
    I wanted to hear what he said about Hillary.  I never watch MSM so I thought I could stand it for a few minutes.

    It may all be a big box of baloney, but he sounds sincere when he praises her, more sincere than Obama.  Normally this would enrage me but now it just interests me.

    Parent

    He wants our votes. (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:24:52 PM EST
    He is reaching out to Hillary supporters. I suspect that after the unity pony comments I have read today from new members, that we will be courted by everyone. Where were they a few months ago?

    Parent
    Man (5.00 / 4) (#188)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:05:25 PM EST
    All through this primary, I listened to Obama supporters talk about how wonderful it will be to nominate someone who can be unambiguously to McCain's left on the war.

    While I appreciate the point, it makes me sick to watch McCain getting to run to Obama's left on energy policy.  Imagine, the Democratic candidate getting criticized by the Republican nominee for voting for Dick Cheney's corporate welfare bill?  But oh no, we couldn't dare nominate Hillary, she was too compromised by special interests!

    Sigh.

    Parent

    His delivery is terrible. (none / 0) (#105)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:04 PM EST


    Parent
    he has to be the most boring speaker (none / 0) (#119)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:43:22 PM EST
    And he should whiten his teeth

    Parent
    And the crowd is whiter than white (none / 0) (#122)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:44:17 PM EST


    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#127)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:45:44 PM EST


    Parent
    yup they are all racist in one room!! (none / 0) (#158)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:54:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Delivery not so bad, smile is frightening though (none / 0) (#181)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:02:32 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    Yankees baseball here ;) (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:42:05 PM EST


    Parent
    2 out of 4 at the Dome (none / 0) (#192)
    by DFLer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:08:13 PM EST
    Hey. I was cleaning out some bookmarks today. Decided to keep this one:

    Yankee fans on Mars

    Parent

    Gahhhh, the Yankees -- if there were a Gawd (none / 0) (#204)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:19:35 PM EST
    Pinstripes would be horizontal, especially during the Clemens era, primarily because it took ManDiva for fricken ever to throw a pitch and the camera had to linger.

    (Even my Bronx cuz was annoyed; I still laugh at his comment that the Stanx could double their ratings by showing 5-act dramas on Clemens' ass.)

    Parent

    Got the wrong date on the event (none / 0) (#129)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:45:50 PM EST
    I knew it, McCain is gonna pull an Arnold, he is going in the middle and talking about good government, but speeches, not his style.  Running away from Bush.  

    Parent
    but then he twists... (none / 0) (#132)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:47:34 PM EST
    right back to the old stuff...bait and switch

    Parent
    Good evening, peeps! (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Paul F Villarreal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:07 PM EST
    Looking forward to hearing HRC speak.

    :)

    at least mccain has the sense (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by londonamerican on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:57 PM EST
    to be gracious and not constantly bash hillary and her voters. at this point, he looks a lot better to me than obama.

    McCain's comment (5.00 / 4) (#123)
    by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:45:02 PM EST
    about party elders and pundits choosing Obama.. d'oh.  Well, damn it's true.

    So he attempted to praise Hillary and take a swipe at the legitimacy of Obama's nomination.  

    Bad for democracy (5.00 / 5) (#131)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:47:11 PM EST
    No matter how you feel about the eventual Democratic nominee (Hillary or Obama), today was a bad day for democracy. Not once, but twice (at least, the day is still young) AP tried to call this race before the voters had a chance to get to the polls. The media shamelessly tried to influence the results of today's election. Even if the stories are true is there a good reason that they came out before polls closed in SD and MT? Less than 12 hours before the last poll closes, the media couldn't wait to call this race over (even though its not until August, or if Hillary concedes). That is a deliberate effort to sway the outcome, and is bad for democracy

    Normally wedge trolls are a little more subtle. (1.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Addison on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:52:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, (none / 0) (#203)
    by suki on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:19:29 PM EST
    are you happy with the media today?
    Or any day for that matter?
    He's got a valid point, IMO.

    Parent
    My feelings, Primary and Party (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:47:43 PM EST
    Geez, I began to write, and it was turning into a memoir, so let me state quickly.

    Hillary won my vote. I didn't care for her before the debates began, but her pugnacity and her sincerity won me over. I think she is MUCH more qualified to be president than anyone else running.

    My party-- I've been a Democrat my entire life. I have always, even as a child, supported Democratic and democratic ideals, values, and candidates. However, I feel betrayed.

    I feel like my party has cheated me and cheated on me. The fix was in, and nobody told us.

    But I'm not leaving my party. I'm going to run for higher positions within it.

    As an unreconstructed New Deal, Fair Deal, Great Society Clinton Democrat.

    I have not yet begun to fight for my party and its principles. I'm going to work, or try to work, from the inside.

    I'll vote Democratic in November. I'll donate, I'll do voter registrations, and I'll drive the bus on Election Day.

    But I am now, and will always be, a card-carrying member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. Obama, the party leadership, and especially the Obama supporters have a lot to prove to me. But I'll place party over personality.

    I agree (none / 0) (#146)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:51:23 PM EST
    Listening to McCain talking about the "success" in Iraq makes the choice very clear for me.

    Parent
    McCain's speech is just PAINFUL (none / 0) (#180)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:02:16 PM EST
    This has to be worst speech ever.  It is just embarrasing "that;s not change we can believe in".  Painful.

    Parent
    Obama v. McCain is tough (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by cygnus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:51:10 PM EST
    I can't vote for either one, but it's a close call. We should respect everyone's opinion.  There are good reasons for any choice, and we should keep our minds open.

    I admire your courage... (1.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Addison on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:54:32 PM EST
    ...to come out as ambivalent on the choice issue.

    Parent
    Respect for Americans (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by SamJohnson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:54 PM EST

    200 years ago this country officially abolished slavery, which meant for the most part people from Africa who were treated in an inhumane and horrific way. It was a crime that cannot be underestimated or dismissed as dead past history. Yes, there were others from other countries and the trade in human beings really knew no limits.

    Sexual slavery still exists in many parts of the world and even in the US. All forms of slavery must be abolished, everywhere. We still have a lot to do in this country, to liberate women and others who are oppressed. This is the mandate of this election.

    But let us not underestimate or undercelebrate the fact that for the first time in the history of this country an African American has been nominated for President by a national political party. As historically, his success really does depend on women of all races, Latinos, and people who were born many decades ago. America needs us. We need to let them know that.

    I'm proud to have witnessed this event, and wish Senator Obama the blessing of all Americans who believe that our country can be even better, and more respectful of our diversity. Diversity now and henceforth means all of us. And John McCain will not lead us forward.

    God Bless Hillary Clinton for a life's worth of work on behalf of others in this country. She has changed my daughter's life, and my two sons' lives as well. Yes, we took a lot of unfair hits. No doubt. But listening to John McCain spout ridiculous things right now in Louisiana, there is no way that all of the hard work and money and support for our hero Hillary Clinton will ever translate into indifference about or acceptance of John McCain.

    We are waiting for what Hillary has to say next about where she wants to lead us, because we will follow her lead. She has earned our respect and patience and deference.

    I am heartbroken (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by camellia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:17 PM EST
    tonight, and I am not a person who uses words like those lightly.  My husband is watching CNN, but I just can't do it, so I am as far away as I can get from it and still be in the house.   I never thought to see such a travesty of democracy as I have witnessed during the last months.  I will not vote for Obama -- I will probably leave the top line blank on my ballot and vote for SOME but not all of the other Dems, for example I will vote against my congressman who endorsed Obama some time ago.  Since he (Jim Moran, D VA) has very questionable ethics, I will hope that there is a challenger.  Otherwise, I will vote for Mark Warner for John Warner's Senate seat, and that is all.  Under no circumstances will I vote for Obama, whom I deem  inexperienced and unethical.  Not to mention ungracious and unkind.

    And she should NOT accept the second place on the ticket.  I thank whoever it was who put up the email address -- I am going to email now and ask her to please stay in until the convention.  

    The pride for this woman has me in tears (5.00 / 5) (#167)
    by Monda on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:35 PM EST
    I am proud today, (hard to type cause of the tears) I am proud of her victory, in facing the MSM, the DNC establishment, the stereotypes about her and her husband, the Clinton pathological hate machine (on the republican and the "democratic" side) and against all odds getting more votes then any other nominee in history.  I am proud of this woman for standing up not only for all the women, but for all those who have stumbled in life.  She was vetted and she was not found wanting (at least not by millions of us who voted and supported her.)  

    You, Hillary Clinton, are my inspiration.  You did not lose, the Democratic party lost, and this country lost today.  

    That's all I have to say for the moment ... choked up.  

    Bravo!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:02:10 PM EST


    Parent
    RESPECT = Wake Up and Smell the Coffee (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by dlkincaid on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:07:04 PM EST
    RESPECT = Removing the Blinders from your eyes. Women have been told once again, we are not worthy and African Americans have been sold a bill of goods. Obama cares as much about Unity as the Daley's (Chicago), Kennedy's (Mass) and the other haters who have fooled us over the years to have them able to say anything hateful and mean, then apologize and have us accept them. I will not vote for Obama, my years for fighting this country to do the 'right thing' is over. Young people wanted this - they can have it.

    Hillary Clinton is the most courageous person I have ever heard. She started this fight a long time ago and I as a female have so much pride for her and it overwhelms me. If it were me - I would have told this country to 'go to hell' years ago. The Clintons did nothing wrong - they took the abuse because they wanted to serve. I tell my people (Black Americans) all the time - the Clinton foundation has done more for people around the world than the US of A. My hat off to Hillary.

    I am a 62 year old Black female who will NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA - I have the same feeling about him as I had in 2000 about George Bush - two of a kind. My opinion and if this is disrespectful - I apologize.

    At the moment, (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:08:00 PM EST
    The four delegates Obama stole from Hilary has put him one pledged delegate over the "mark".

    I will say this. (4.71 / 14) (#9)
    by lansing quaker on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:04 PM EST
    I'll accept this decision if this is what the Democratic Establishment is going for.

    I will never respect it.

    They stole my Michigan vote.  STOLE it.  In an unprecedented move.  And then placate me (and others) with false information on "fairness" and "likelihood."

    For me, this isn't even about the candidates anymore.  It is that Democrats voted to willingly violate the basic tenets of democracy.

    I was considering not voting Obama due to the sexism, race-bating, and due to other occurrences.

    I am now considering not voting Democratic at all this election cycle because they literally stole. my. primary. vote.  And don't even acknowledge it.

    This is something even the Republicans have not done.

    I may accept that this is their decision.  There will never be respect.

    They sure didn't show me any.

    I agree and have one suggestion (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by badu on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:34:25 PM EST
    Vote for the down ticket dems - if McCain wins the Presidency, having a strongly Democratic House and Senate will keep him in check.  

    Parent
    There actually are more important things... (3.00 / 2) (#138)
    by JayBat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:48:56 PM EST
    ...than "keeping McCain in check".

    If you don't think that Supreme Court nominations are worth the effort of your voting for Barack Obama in the general election, I ask you stop. And think again.

    -Jay-

    Parent

    Wow! (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:35 PM EST
    There's an argument I hadn't heard before! I never would have thought of that!

    /snark

    Parent

    supreme court is a matter for senate democrats (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by londonamerican on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:58:40 PM EST
    saying that we should all be scared into voting for obama because of the supreme court implies that the senate democrats have no power. what's up with that?

    Parent
    but but but (5.00 / 0) (#201)
    by ding7777 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:18:44 PM EST
    if the SC nominations were so important, why did the backroom boyz give Obama the nomination?

    Parent
    With respect I will vote for McCain... (4.50 / 4) (#70)
    by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:08 PM EST
    and with dignity too.

    Please accept this (3.00 / 2) (#6)
    by PaulDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:06 PM EST
    Please accept this in the spirit in which it is offered.  

    If even a fraction of the incredible passion, talent and dedication of the supporters of Senator Clinton can be united with the same in Senator Obama's supporters, Democrats will be an unstoppable force in November.

    I sincerely long for that day.

    Personally, I will never vote for Obama (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Mark Woods on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:28:49 PM EST
    unless Clinton is 1/2 of his ticket.  I will not reward Obama, his mostly rude and bullying spokesmen, nor the press for their strong-arm efforts to get Obama nominated.

    I will seriously consider voting for McCain, and I know most of my family member, who were poised to vote for Clinton, have SHOUTED an absolute ' No' to Obama.

    And we are insulted by any silly Obama followers who think we haven't weighed the costs. We are offended by coat hanger arguments and will not be persuaded otherwise.

    I have no interest in 'Unity' unless it involves Clinton on a ticket with Obama. Otherwise 'Unity' is another in a long string of lies.

    Parent

    Fair enough (none / 0) (#104)
    by PaulDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:40:59 PM EST
    Fair enough.  Please consider voting for the Dem on the down-ballot races.  We have an outside chance of electing a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and padding our majority in the House so the blue dogs can't much around with the progressive agenda.

    We still also need to catch up with the GOP in state and local races.  If there are fired up progressives running in your city and state, please give them a look.  

    The best part about this whole ugly affair is that it has brought so many more people into the process.  Please stay involved even if you can't stomach what's going on at the national level.


    Parent

    personally I hope we lose at least one house (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:37 PM EST
    seat.  and that would be the congressman from WV who backed Obama after Clinton won his state by 40 points.

    Parent
    Yes, he's no Appalachian! lol n/t (none / 0) (#174)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:59:31 PM EST


    Parent
    I will vote downticket (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:11:25 PM EST
    dem for any dem who did not support Obama during the primary.

    Parent
    No Thanks (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:08:02 PM EST
    The exclusive NEW Democratic Party does not represent me or my values. I have been told more than once that it does not need me. That I'm old, uneducated, low information and racist. Insulting me does not lead to passion for the people who have insulted me. So I will leave it to all the new Dems and cross over Republicans to make this exclusive party viable come November.

    Parent
    I'm gonna stay and fight. (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:13:14 PM EST
    Fight for the Democratic Party I have spent my life in. They can't have it that easily!

    Parent
    Exactly How Do You Plan To Do That? (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:20:17 PM EST
    If Obama becomes president, the party of Obama is the party we will have now and in the future.

    Parent
    No thanks needed (2.33 / 3) (#14)
    by suisser on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:43 PM EST
    because I didn't read it. Maybe you need to get your own blog?
    That's just not how thing get done here.

    Do you troll raters even (none / 0) (#202)
    by suisser on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:18:47 PM EST
    realize that the prior comment was in REPLY to a now deleted pile of troll droppings?  

    Parent
    Spamming and clogging don't make a stronger case (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:52 PM EST
    A link would suffice.

    Downrated by a troll is a badge of honor! (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:52:11 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm going to use a hockey anaolgy (1.00 / 1) (#103)
    by FruitlandGenerics on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:40:58 PM EST
    As a Caps fan, I was really depressed by the loss to the Flyers in the first round. I was enraged the tactics used by the Flyers, and frustrated the Caps own star players couldn't produce.

    A Philly fan posted on a site I read: "We didn't beat your boys up. We made them men. You'll thank us later."

    That's what Clinton did for Obama. She ran hard, she ran tough, and she never quit. I may disagree with some of her statements, and I may question the ethics of some of her tactics. But she was the best thing that ever happened to Obama.

    If Sen. Barack Obama can withstand a challenege from someone like Sen. Hillary Clinton, he can handle John McCain.

    And don't buy this crap John McCain's sellin' tonight, either, HRC supporters. You know he doesn't have your interests at heart.

    Maybe (5.00 / 4) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:01 PM EST
    so but I don't think Obama has our interests at heart either.

    Parent
    I hope you're right (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:08:16 PM EST
    But hockey is played on the same rink.  I don't think the same things that were ruled off limits in the Democratic primary will be off limits in the GE.

    National security, for example, is a real issue in the GE.  You don't get to address it by saying "wah, that evil Hillary is fearmongering again."

    Parent

    The Unity Ticket (none / 0) (#34)
    by fuzzyone on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:15:35 PM EST
    BTD had me convinced, more or less, but then I see this (via Tapper) and think how much of it there will be and then I'm not so sure.

    By the way, on the sinking ship front MyDD says Maxine Waters has switched to Obama.

    I just can't envision a unity ticket (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Josey on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:38 PM EST
    the Establishment ran Obama for the purpose of keeping Hillary off the ticket!
    It would undermine all their efforts to destroy, not only Hillary's presidential bid, but the Clinton legacy.
    And the GOP would be airing ads nonstop of Obama repeatedly trashing the Clinton administration.

    Parent
    Aretha!!! (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:18:42 PM EST
    damn she can sing...good call.  

    I'm partial to the original myself.

    The Unity Ticket (none / 0) (#41)
    by fuzzyone on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:19:42 PM EST
    BTD had me convinced, more or less, but then I see this (via Tapper) and think how much of it there will be and then I'm not so sure.

    By the way, on the sinking ship front MyDD says Maxine Waters has switched to Obama.

    I think Maxine was coerced into switching. No (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:26:15 PM EST
    other explanation.  Re: the unity ticket.  I think Hillary has painted Obama into a corner by saying she'd accept the slot.  If he doesn't offer it then things will be bad for him because he needs her worse than she needs him.  Brilliant maneuver from Hillary.

    Parent
    Nobody coerces Maxine Waters (none / 0) (#66)
    by Seth90212 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:31:01 PM EST
    she exercised her right to switch. Give her a little more credit.

    By the way, I support a unity ticket but I don't believe Obama feels he needs Hillary to win. I think he is inclined to not put her on the ticket.


    Parent

    What a joke. Of course she was coerced. You (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:34:30 PM EST
    don't know the relationship she has with Hillary.  This was a backroom strongarmed deal.   Maxine is a strong woman but when you're given options sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do.  She was coerced.

    Parent
    Read her endorsement. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:40:14 PM EST
    She did this for party "unity."  Nothing else.

    Parent
    Does "unity" mean she was coerced or (none / 0) (#136)
    by fuzzyone on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:48:14 PM EST
    is it possible she thinks it is better for her party if this ends now.  Maybe she made a decision that while she likes Hillary, Obama is also a great candidate, he is going to get the nomination, and the primary needs to end so that the general can begin.  Just a thought.

    Parent
    No, I didn't get the impression (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:52:50 PM EST
    that she thinks he's a great candidate.

    Compared to her, he's not.

    That's what's so infuriating about all of this.

    Parent

    if you think that you don't know much about Waters (none / 0) (#85)
    by fuzzyone on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:37:20 PM EST
    On Unity I think you are right that her saying she is interested makes it hard for him not to offer.  Whether he is better of with her or without her I'm not sure.  Having her on the ticket will unite the party but will also allow the Repubs to go to town with everything she has said about Obama plus all the stuff they were planning to say about her and Bill anyway.  I like the Wesley Clark idea that has been floating around the intertubes today.

    Parent
    i want a list (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:35:27 PM EST
    of Clinton Super Dels who switched to Obama and couldn't bring themselves to wait until tomorrow.  What a slap in the face...

    Parent
    Check wikipedia... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:38 PM EST
    ...or any of the other sites. they've got the SD nominations by date:
    Link

    Parent
    The Clinton superdels that switched today: (none / 0) (#120)
    by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:43:38 PM EST
    Kamil Hasan, CA
    Ben Johnson, DC
    Rhett Ruggerio, DE
    Maxine Waters, CA

    I agree, it's a bit of a slap in the face...

    Parent

    unprincipled opportunists... (5.00 / 0) (#182)
    by londonamerican on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:02:37 PM EST
    do they possibly think their switecheroo will mean anything or curry any favour with the dear leader? how transparently servile and cowardly.

    Parent
    Hill wants the VP spot. (none / 0) (#43)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:21:46 PM EST


    I'm not so sure (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:41:33 PM EST
    Ok, first, the talking heads on Fox are simply aghast that Hillary has 'ruined Obama's big day' and 'stolen the spotlight' with her answer about being open to a Unity ticket.  LOL!  That's sweet.  Or maybe, Sweetie.

    But maybe she's playing chicken.  Goodness knows he and the DNC have been playing a big game of chicken this whole campaign.  If she seems open to it and he doesn't offer it to her, it accelerates his weakening trajectory.  Maybe she's thinking about 2012.  Just possibilities.

    In other news, Bobby Jindal just introduced McCain in Louisiana, and he comes across fairly well on camera.  Oops, now McCain is waxing eloquent about Clinton!

    Parent

    No, she wants it. (none / 0) (#126)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:45:41 PM EST
    I think she's at least eanred that much.

    Parent
    Definitely earned it but (none / 0) (#149)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:52:25 PM EST
    not sure she wants it.  The big question is whether she thinks it gives her a stronger future in 2012 if Obama loses, or if VP is enough for her if he wins.

    She could easily be in a stronger place staying in the Senate.  My best second pick for her (after President of course) is Sen. Majority Leader.  Yes, I know, I'm dreaming.  But that would rock.

    Parent

    it would be her only option for the future (none / 0) (#184)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:04:39 PM EST
    If they are on the ticket together and lose, she will still be the favorite in 2012.  If they win, she would become the default candidate in 2016.

    If she Isn't the VP and he wins, then his VP would be the default for 2016 instead of Hillary

    Parent

    Poppycock! (none / 0) (#83)
    by mrjerbub on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:36:05 PM EST


    I can't believe how sad I am (none / 0) (#91)
    by barryluda on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:38:42 PM EST
    I was and am an Obama supporter but, largely through this blog, have really come to admire and respect Clinton.  I have a hunch a bunch of you will be gone as J and BTD become advocates for Obama.  It will be strange, I'm sure.

    But for me, I can hardly begin to grasp how hard tonight must be for many of you.  Here I am writing, literally with tears running down my cheeks, because Clinton is so classy, so smart, and has run the campaign of my lifetime.

    I sure hope she is in the White House, both as VP next January and then as POTUS starting eight years after that.

    Pandering. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Artoo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:40 PM EST
    Nice there Mr. McCain...

    Open thread: important NYT (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:59 PM EST
    essay:  Repairing the Damage, Before Roe

    NYT

    what do you think about Fineman's report just now (none / 0) (#133)
    by DFLer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:47:35 PM EST
    that he has heard from his sources within both campaigns that

    1. Hillary wants the VP ask
    2. Barack will offer it, only on the condition that she does not accept it.
    3. She will then decline it.


    Silly and transparent. (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:36 PM EST
    It seems silly to me.

    Why would she ask for it to decline it? What is gained? Party disunity? The ability to insult the presumptive democratic nominee?

    Does Fineman think that somehow this will appease the people who wanted to see Clinton at the top of the ticket?  Doesn't make any sense to me.

    Parent

    apparently so (none / 0) (#162)
    by DFLer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:56:04 PM EST
    ...it will appease Clinton supporters without having to deal with her actually being on the ticket.

    Fineman described it as Kabuki theatre.

    But are his sources correct?

    Or: snark alert- is his source Frank Rich?

    Parent

    I'm not going to be appeased by a phony... (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:00:35 PM EST
    ...gesture. I could almost see Hillary doing this to try to help the party. But the media and the arrogant Obama campaign can't let her have the dignity that a gesture like this would deserve. They have to let everyone know that Obama doesn't really mean it. What do they think we are stupid? Oh wait, don't answer that question. I already know the answer.

    Parent
    Claro que sí. (none / 0) (#185)
    by DFLer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:04:50 PM EST
    that's exactly what they think!


    Parent
    Typical media (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:59:40 PM EST
    reporting; whatever..... It makes no sense.

    I wish she doesn't take it b/c I cannot vote for Obama his adopted uncles and past 20 years relationships are unforgivable.

    I find it interesting some many people aren't outrage by some of these things. It would have sunk any other candidate in history and rightly so.  You have no idea how offensive I find these, personally.

    Parent

    I think (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:17:48 PM EST
    that the media is one of the most divisive forces in America, that's what I think.

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#159)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:54:30 PM EST
    After the way she has been treated, if she is offered, forget about the condition. Accept it in front of the entire nation. For us women. She had to give up delegates as it is. No, Hillary should take it. Yes, it would show all her strength and she would be the new Chenney. Ha. And there would be nothing he could do about it.

    Parent
    Now that would be marvelous! (none / 0) (#178)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:01:07 PM EST


    Parent
    what's with all the green behind (none / 0) (#142)
    by Chamonix on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:14 PM EST
    McBush? Is he the new Green Candidate? Kermit? This is soooooooooooooooooo sad. Poor McMavick McBush. Are they serious about running this nitwit? This is really pathetic. Where did they bush this crowd in from?

    And South Dakota?? (none / 0) (#156)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:50 PM EST
    What happened with today's primaries? No reporting at all?
    We know Montana will go Obama; I am interested in South Dakota.
    Anyone knows anything?

    Can't find anyone even talking about it...

    McCain is lousy with a teleprompter (none / 0) (#163)
    by catfish on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:56:17 PM EST
    there's a contrast with Obama. While I'm not voting McCain I would like to see him campaign at his best and get a really good debate going with Obama. It's a reform year on both sides, would be nice to see some good debates going.

    For example: the farm bill.

    Now McCain saying he opposed Cheney energy bill, Obama voted for it. He opposed farm bill, Democrats voted for it.

    It's a well-written speech, given what they had to work with.

    The McCain Show... (none / 0) (#171)
    by nclblows on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:51 PM EST
    is actually pretty funny right now.  He looks like a cadaver.

    Bah. (none / 0) (#173)
    by nclblows on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:59:29 PM EST
    I can't vote for McCain.  But I won't vote for BO, either.  If Hillary's not it, I'm going Green.

    Supers are having a Cesar moment (none / 0) (#194)
    by sociallybanned on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:10:57 PM EST
    So, would it be true and accurate to say the supers did a cesar moment tonight on Hillary.  Did they get all together and discuss, hey let's do it Cesear style.

    No crying for me tonight (none / 0) (#208)
    by Raven15 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:32:18 PM EST
    Barack Obama will be the PRESUMPTIVE nominee. This does not necessarily mean he will ultimately be THE nominee.

    Sorry, hosts, but PUMA. Will you have a thread discussing how TL will handle loyalists and PUMAists?

    Someone commented (none / 0) (#209)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:56:33 PM EST
    that as things move on and BHO is the nom, that some of us will probably stop coming here. I am probably going to be one of those people. I don't see myself voting for BHO, although I started out supporting him. After the crap of this primary season, the Democratic party has abandoned me.

    TL is an AWESOME website that allowed, I feel, the BEST in dialogue with sometimes passioned statements, but nothing way over the top.

    The moderation made it a haven for Clinton supporters because of the heated atmosphere created by Kos and Co and their people.

    Thanks Jeralyn and your crew for allowing me to come here since the madness of the Texas caucuses.  This will be the first time since I was 24 that I will not be working for a Dem presidential campaign.  I will focus my energies on more personal issues (fixing up my house, the animals, WORKING OUT! LOL!)

    If things change, which one can hope, I will be back full force supporting Senator Clinton in her bid for the presidency.

    Feel free to click on my info and visit me on my little blog.

    Open Thread: Respect | 193 comments (193 topical, 0 hidden)