Fineman: Discussions Of Obama Offer Of VP and Clinton Rejection Of It Ongoing

Fineman: Discussions Of Obama Offer Of VP and Clinton Rejection Of It Ongoing

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:49:37 PM EST
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On NBC, Howard Fineman is reporting (FAIR WARNING - Fineman often is wrong on these things) that the Clinton and Obama camps are discussing having Obama offer Clinton the VP slot and her rejecting it because she does not want it and that it would be an important sign of public respect and unity.

If this is true, it heartens me to think that Obama realizes that he must show respect to Hillary Clinton and her supporters. I hope he actually does respect her. He should. As she should respect him.

We'll see if any of this is actually true, but an interesting tidbit.

By Big Tent Democrat

< Open Thread: Respect | Hillary Wins South Dakota >

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Fineman: Discussions Of Obama Offer Of VP and Clinton Rejection Of It Ongoing | 166 comments (166 topical)

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Unlikely (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by zebedee on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:53:38 PM EST

If so why would she say she's open to VP slot? To me it sounded like they were attacking Hillary for putting him on the spot and forcing him to offer her something she doesn't even want.

She did not say that (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:56:10 PM EST

she said she would do anything asked.

This is crazy spin from Clinton haters. surprised you bit.

Parent

: Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#74)
by talex on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:01 PM EST

Anything asked? What are you trying to say because your response is a bit cryptic.
I certainly never heard her say she would accept the VP. All she said was would do whatever to unite the party.
IMO if it is true Obma is talking to Clinton's people about the VP iy is only because he knows he can't win without her - i.e. Clinton supporters and other key constituencies that she owns. Obama respects no one. He has proven that with his tactics and race baiting. He was willing to do anything to win, even brand someone a racist by planting false stories in the press.

Parent
: Didn't mean to suggest.... (none / 0) (#81)
by zebedee on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:22 PM EST

..she was actually trying to put him on the spot, juat that they were trying to slate her for this. And I'm not how she worded her willingness to consider various possibilities, but if she really was conniving for this offer/rejection would she have even done that?

Parent

I think she had to for "unity" and (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:56:49 PM EST

the party. If she had said anything else she would have been skewered worse for being divisive, scorched earth and just plain EEEEvil.

Parent

: lol!~ Your daughter rocks! (none / 0) (#181)
by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:11:31 PM EST

And I must say, I agree with her :)

Parent

At my law firm (5.00 / 5) (#54)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:38 PM EST

this is what is known as a "cold offer."

You get a lousy summer associate. You don't want him to come back. But you don't want to make it impossible for him to get another job somewhere else. So you give him a cold offer. "We're making you an offer so you can tell other law firms that you got an offer."

Parent

Wait, let me get this right (5.00 / 6) (#7)
by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:54:03 PM EST

He asks, she has to reject and that should unite us? HUH?

She WANTS to reject it (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:55:28 PM EST

Parent

But the floater a scant hour ago (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:13 PM EST

was she would like to be VP.

Parent

I think it's backwards to the truth. (5.00 / 3) (#23)
by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:13 PM EST

They are wanting to offer it to her with her agreeing in advance to reject it. Whether or not she wants it, they don't want her.

Parent

I doubt it (none / 0) (#38)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:00:19 PM EST

I think the reverse happened.

Parent

No way BTD. They don't want her. They just (5.00 / 7) (#44)
by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:27 PM EST

want her supporters to think they do.

Parent

: I agree, Teresa (5.00 / 4) (#65)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:50 PM EST

They want to be able to SAY they respected her enough to offer it to her.
Just like the RBC wanted us to THINK that they enfranchised FLA and MI.

Parent

BTD, there's no evidence to back up (5.00 / 1) (#76)
by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:16 PM EST

a claim that Obama wants Hillary as VP.
I think he'd almost rather drop out.

Parent

: Ha. (none / 0) (#89)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:10:12 PM EST

Parent

Maybe so but then why does Fineman... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:12:53 PM EST

....plaster it all over the airwaves that Obama is only offering it under the condition that she refuse. That's beyond insulting. If they really wanted to pull this one off O-camp should have kept its mouth shut.

Parent

Yaa she is evil... (none / 0) (#26)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:30 PM EST

Parent

Publicly reject it? (none / 0) (#104)
by talex on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:12:52 PM EST

I highly doubt it. My first impressions is that would make no sense to do. There is nothing for her to gain from it and probably some to lose.

Parent

My reaction also. (5.00 / 8) (#12)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:55:52 PM EST

He offers it, after "someone" publicizes she won't accept.

Parent

Personally (5.00 / 3) (#29)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:06 PM EST

I can easily see her not wanting it. For a number of reasons.

Right now, unlike me, I think she thinks he is going to lose.

Second, it would not be a friendly administration for her to be in. she will not have any policy role.

Third, at least right now, they probably do not like each other much.

Parent

And yet, I think she'll put the party first (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:55 PM EST

I hope she does.

Parent

: I hope she puts herself first. (5.00 / 1) (#131)
by Joan in VA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:21:50 PM EST

Enough is enough. Let the media beat up on someone else.

Parent

I can see her not wanting it either (5.00 / 2) (#61)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:46 PM EST

given that Tweety, KO and Fineman have announced that it would be her job to OBEY Obama.

No one ever told Cheney that, apparently.

Parent

: I didn't realize those commentators (none / 0) (#96)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:11 PM EST

were so devoted to the New Testament. Straight out of St. Paul.

Parent

Wait a minute. (none / 0) (#39)
by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:00:40 PM EST

What happened to your unity posts?

What's changed?

Parent

BTD was talking to Clinton supporters. (none / 0) (#110)
by Salo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:17 PM EST

Parent

: I thought he was talking to (none / 0) (#124)
by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:19:35 PM EST

Obama supporters.

Parent

My hope for Hillary (none / 0) (#175)
by mikeyleigh on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:35:19 PM EST

is that she stays in the Senate, challenges Harry Reid for the Majority Leader's post, wins it thereby becomes the titular head of the party, fighting for Democratic ideals against a weak President John McCain. Maybe not as good as her becoming President, but it has a certain poetic justice.

Parent

Well if there is any truth to this story (none / 0) (#93)
by talex on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:02 PM EST

about an offer you just hit on it. At beast it is a ploy on Obama's part to make it look like he is making nice with Clinton and then she looks bad by saying no.

I'm not sure what he think he stands to gain by that though.

Parent

My reaction too... (5.00 / 1) (#107)
by IzikLA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:13 PM EST

BTD I just don't understand how this is respectful of Clinton at all. It seems to me that this all hinges on her turning down the offer when, in fact, she may want that spot. Maybe I'm just confused but I do not see respect in this. I see this as, once again, her being asked to compromise her character for him and in the name of party unity.

Parent

Q - Blow me? A - No thanks. (none / 0) (#108)
by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:50 PM EST

But don't send the press release blue.

Parent

If she really doesn't want it (5.00 / 3) (#8)
by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:54:18 PM EST

I would be okay with that, but if she does want it, he should man up and give it to her. But how are we supposed to ever know what is the truth with people like Fineman shilling for Obama during the whole campaign.

No (5.00 / 5) (#16)
by Athena on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:56:28 PM EST

If Obama prevails, I don't think he wants her as VP - unless his hand is forced by the powers that be. He does not realize that he needs her - and she does not need him.

If Hillary prevails, I think she would offer him the slot.

But there's no nominee until August anyway. So we've got time.

: I would love to force his hand because... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:08 PM EST

...the whole way they are handling this is making me sick. But what I want more than anything is for Hillary to get herself out of their crosshairs and let them sink or swim on their own.

Parent
: She's too smart to buy this theater of the absurd (5.00 / 1) (#165)
by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:17 PM EST

Suspending her campaign with a graceful smile of waiting for the convention. She should bide her time, Help the Party by supporting worthy downticket Dems.
Obama's own landmines are slated to go off in his face -- what time have you got down as the next scheduled Mission Accomplished speech plus one nanosecond later?
Obama and his Brazile-Dems get to eat month's supply of unadulterated Repug malevolence blasting forth on all thrusters.
If they whined before cause Clinton questioned his actual words and record, they'll barely want to open their mouths for getting another blast of some real sh!t to swallow.

Parent

I am sickened (5.00 / 9) (#19)
by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:00 PM EST

Two mediocre men once again. Who cares what color one is, still mediocre, listening to McCain and the prospect of Obama's blather compared to Hillary's clarity just make me think, we deserve this stuff. How shameful.

McCain isn't mediocre (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by p lukasiak on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:56 PM EST

McCain is just wrong -- and a Republican.

Parent

Very true! (5.00 / 0) (#33)
by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:10 PM EST

Parent

McCain is better and brighter. (1.00 / 1) (#34)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:35 PM EST

and democrat at heart!

Parent

: What are you smoking? (5.00 / 2) (#73)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:06:57 PM EST

And where did you get it? Because that is some really strong stuff you're inhaling there.

Parent
: A democrat at heart? (5.00 / 1) (#100)
by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:50 PM EST

The guy has rubberstamped W and believes that Iraq was still the right thing to do. If he's a Democrat, he's one of the wishy washy ones that I disdain.
I understand not being excited at the prospect of Obama(truly I do) but McCain is not nor will he ever be a Democrat at hart.

Parent

No he is mediocre. (none / 0) (#41)
by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:01:33 PM EST

Parent

I know (5.00 / 3) (#56)
by Dr Molly on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:55 PM EST

I'll miss Hillary's wonky mastery. I'm a sucker for details.

BTW, where's Kathy? I can usually count on her comments to cheer me up.

Parent

On vacation, as I recall. (none / 0) (#66)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:54 PM EST

Parent

: That B!TCH! [ob /snark] (none / 0) (#144)
by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:29:23 PM EST

How could she just when we need KUSA polling the most.

Parent
: Lucky her (none / 0) (#149)
by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:31:19 PM EST

Hopefully she is completely tuned out...

Parent

Well, the story makes me happy.... (5.00 / 4) (#21)
by p lukasiak on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:07 PM EST

because it shows that Clinton has the good sense not to put her name on the coming disaster.

That is, if its true. Everyone in the media is repeating whatever they hear without bothering to check it out, so I think its more likely that the rumors of a bombshell tomorrow are more likely to be true than this story.

The media (5.00 / 7) (#25)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:20 PM EST

is really Obama's worst enemy. Can you imagine how many people are going to vote against Obama simply for that reason?

Only Obama network can comeup with (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:36 PM EST

this kind of thing ... can they let go Clinton at least now?

You mis-characterize what Fineman said (5.00 / 11) (#35)
by ineedalife on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:47 PM EST

He said that it is OBAMA'S condition that she reject it. Not hers.

He wants a guarantee that she will turn it down before he offers it.

Sort of like giving MI and FL full voting rights after he is the nominee.

I think she should release a rumor (5.00 / 2) (#45)
by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:33 PM EST

that Obama has asked her to be his VP, and she responded by asking him to be hers!

Parent

: No I think she should say she accepted!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#117)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:16:08 PM EST

Parent

BTD, are you seeing this??? (5.00 / 2) (#47)
by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:55 PM EST

WTH?

Parent

If this is true (5.00 / 6) (#60)
by Dr Molly on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:41 PM EST

this is really the last straw.

Parent

That's what I got too (5.00 / 2) (#68)
by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:06:06 PM EST

Parent

she wouldn't turn it down (5.00 / 5) (#71)
by kimsaw on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:06:52 PM EST

she would be the first female VP that's breaking a ceiling and she's got the hammer. Funny I thought he didn't believe in preconditions when talking to the enemy. If this is the kind of faux leadership displayed by a potential president I will consider McCain most definitely. I never thought I'd say that.

Parent

the Elites do NOT want her on the ticket! (5.00 / 1) (#137)
by Josey on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:25:22 PM EST

they've spent all this time and effort propping up an Empty Suit to keep her off the ticket!!

Contrary to media pundit belief, this has not been a mild primary! because the vitriol wasn't limited to the candidates. At least I've never had a candidate call me and other voters "racists" for supporting another candidate.
Why in the world would Hillary want to be on a team that used
race-baiting to win the nomination? It goes against her history and philosophy.

Parent

This is bs (none / 0) (#72)
by Monda on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:06:52 PM EST

This has to be the biggest bs I have seen. If that's what is going on behind the scenes, why leak it out especially framed this way?

Anyway, which ever way they want to cook it, this stew stinks.

IMHO, she should not take the VP spot. Period.

Parent

actually (none / 0) (#92)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:10:49 PM EST

the problem is Fineman has no sources in the Clinton campaign, this is from Obama and that is why I think my interpretation is correct.

Parent

: BTD, sometimes you give people.... (5.00 / 1) (#133)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:22:51 PM EST

...more credit than they deserve. Just saying.

Parent
: That makes me more sure the opposite is true. (none / 0) (#112)
by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:29 PM EST

Parent
: They should just say this is what happened. (none / 0) (#154)
by Joan in VA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:34:02 PM EST

They are pretty good at getting the MSM to run with whatever they announce. If she denied it, the MSM wouldn't believe her.*
*sorta snarky but I sorta think it could work.

Parent

OBEDIENCE (5.00 / 4) (#42)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:01:39 PM EST

Did you catch Tweety asking KO whether Hillary could accept her duty to OBEY Obama and be SUBSERVIENT to him, because that is the job of the V.P?

NBC has just announced that Obama is the presumptive nominee. Tweety is creaming in his jeans.

She has to be subservient... (5.00 / 2) (#67)
by Paul F Villarreal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:58 PM EST

...for Tweety and Olbermud. Time to strap on the ball and chain, eh?

So blatantly disrespectful it is atrocious.

Parent

Funny how (5.00 / 4) (#82)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:32 PM EST

no one ever told Cheney that it was the job of the VP to be OBEDIENT.

Parent

: Well, we don't know... (5.00 / 1) (#106)
by Paul F Villarreal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:13 PM EST

...what went on in that 'undisclosed location,' do we?
;)

Parent
: Actually Cheney Told Bush To Be OBEDIENT n/t (5.00 / 1) (#136)
by MO Blue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:24:31 PM EST

Parent

OBEDIENCE is a dog sport ;) (5.00 / 1) (#80)
by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:20 PM EST

Parent

If I had seen that, my tv would be broken now. (5.00 / 2) (#90)
by Joan in VA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:10:28 PM EST

Parent

: That TV cost $10K (5.00 / 2) (#102)
by litigatormom on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:12:41 PM EST

because my husband couldn't wait to get an LCD. If we'd waited a year, I could have afforded to destroy it.

Parent

He's been reading that book life of surrender. (5.00 / 1) (#101)
by Salo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:12:05 PM EST

creepy.

No biggie though they got us good. Like they do every time.

Parent

Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#168)
by cal1942 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:56:50 PM EST

wins big in a state that Obama was supposed to win and the media declares Obama the overall winner when no SD votes have been cast.

Media does everything possible to steal Hillary's thunder.

A pattern repeated throughout the campaign.

Disgusting.

Parent

weird moment as CNN (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:01 PM EST

declares Obama the nominee, they pan to a bar with a bunch of young people watching MSNBC...Keiths big head was on CNN. Too funny.

McCain (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:16 PM EST

needs to shut up now and let Hillary have her moment.

He will succeed in pissing of Clinton supporters pretty damn quick if he keeps going.

Shrug (5.00 / 1) (#148)
by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:31:19 PM EST

I don't like McCain one bit but I am in no danger of getting pissed off.

I don't have any sort of expectation that the Republicans will be deferential and courteous towards my candidate.

Parent

Wow (none / 0) (#79)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:11 PM EST

since everybody wants to tick us off where should we go?

Parent

He didn't piss me off. (none / 0) (#85)
by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:45 PM EST

Parent

: He actually made some good points (5.00 / 1) (#99)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:39 PM EST

against Obama... I hope he knocks him out in round1

Parent
: Wasn't pissed off either (5.00 / 2) (#127)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:20:23 PM EST

except at Obama.

Parent

This is what MSM wanted (5.00 / 4) (#53)
by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:25 PM EST

the first black candidate, but yet, Bill was the racist. I AM SICK OF THIS.

This means less than nothing... (5.00 / 5) (#55)
by Paul F Villarreal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:52 PM EST

...to me personally.

It's just like leaving your church after 20 years when you think it will help you politically.

The Obamas and their fans don't want anything to do with Hillary as VP. If they wish to go through this public display of disingenuousness, that is their right. And it is my right to be disgusted by it.

Even this morning, BHO's crew was feeding bogus stories to the AP about Clinton and her campaign.

No unity here.

: The blogcloggers cometh! (5.00 / 1) (#95)
by Paul F Villarreal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:07 PM EST

They will be out in full force tonight, trying to dampen the outrage of those who have supported the popular vote winner.
As Jeralyn and BTD have said, let's all take the high road. Please don't allow them to make you over-react.

Parent

Obama Doesn't Have a Choice (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by BDB on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:20 PM EST

If she wants to be asked, he's going to have to ask her. That's not an unreasonable request given the closeness of the race. And she's going to get any reasonable request because the SDs fear a convention fight.

IMO, Obama has been fighting this, but he's starting to recognize he won't have a choice. If anything South Dakota made it even harder for him.

: Curious -- (5.00 / 1) (#128)
by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:20:27 PM EST

what signs do you see that he's realizing he doesn't have a choice?
I almost thought he'd started to realize that until he scheduled that run of sd endorsements to suppress votes today, which I think makes him look like a jerk. I mean, why do that? Why not have them all go tomorrow?

Parent

If he wants to win, I think he has to offer it (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:25 PM EST

to her; if he doesn't offer, it solidifies the feeling among a lot of Clinton supporters - supporters he cannot afford to further alienate - that he is a small and petty man.

If he were smart, he would offer it to her without reservation - but on the other side of this, I think Hillary cannot draw out an offer from Obama just to put him in his place.

The mistake he may be poised to make is thinking that if he gives a speech that praises her to the heavens that his obligation to her is satisfied.

Obama may have painted himself into a corner on this one, and I'm not sure he has the maturity to suck it up and humble himself.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

Hey how about a South Dakota Results thread? (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by DaveOinSF on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:06:45 PM EST

I'm with you. News blackout all night. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by Joan in VA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:06 PM EST

Watching baseball and reading TL.

Go Padres. I'm going to the (5.00 / 2) (#83)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:13 PM EST

game v. Cubbies, who are awesome.

Parent

GO PADRES!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#103)
by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:12:43 PM EST

A fellow San Diegan, I presume?

Parent

Yep. (5.00 / 2) (#118)
by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:16:22 PM EST

Parent

Heh my Gr8-Lakes cuz boosts the Pads bigtime (5.00 / 1) (#172)
by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:19:35 PM EST

... because he's a righteous Franciscan Friar (a chain-smoking, transcendental poetry-writing, retreat head).

Me: Why not the Tigers? The Cubbies? The Pale Hose? The Tribe, even?

Nope, if he ever gives up on the Pads, he wants me to just take him somewhere and shoot him because he'll have lost his faith.

Parent

: HAH! (5.00 / 1) (#177)
by otherlisa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:36:37 PM EST

Classic.
I know this is veering wildly off-topic (sorry in advance) but I was speaking to a well-known contemporary artist the other night who happens to collect baseball caps - and he really wants the Padres to adopt a sort of Jesuit motif - black, white, maybe a little tasteful gold. Stark. It would sell like crazy.

Parent

Women's college softball world series (5.00 / 1) (#153)
by ap in avl on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:33:21 PM EST

on ESPN2 for me tonight.

Listening to men and women announcers cheering on these women with enormous talent.....competing without encumbrance....running free.

A beautiful thing....

Parent

Angels v Seattle (none / 0) (#182)
by MonaL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:56:36 PM EST

Angles just gave up 2 runs on errors. TL & baselife, ahhh, this is the life.

Parent

She keeps winning straight up; they keep dissing (5.00 / 3) (#77)
by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:33 PM EST

Every advancement she's made straight up, in plain sight and with the VOTERS behind her a bunch of woman-hating and ambitious jackwads try to take away.

Obama is an underachieving, unaccomplished empty suit who can't even fulfill 1/3 of the office he vowed to see through because it "bored" him.

For this the Dems are willing to throw away decades of loyalty from half of their supporters out of sheer misogyny, greed and the political ambitions of a handful of powermongers who want to be at the top of a Chicago Boss Machinery that would disgust any tried and true Dem.

These aren't merely DINOs but Repugnant Dems.

: Going into tonight... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
by Paul F Villarreal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:21:28 PM EST

...since March 3rd, HRC had won approximately 660,000 more votes than BHO.
She is soaring and he has hit terminal velocity in his descent since mid-March and the Wright Scandal broke. It's been one long fall since then with minor (such as NC going to him in the primary but then both HRC and Mac being well up on him in polls thereafter) respites during the his journey down the bottomless pit's maw.
This isn't limping across the finish line (which has not been reached), it's falling across it.

Parent

Fox calls South Dakota (5.00 / 10) (#84)
by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:16 PM EST

Take this Daschle, take this Schultz. YES

FOX Called SD for Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#94)
by JimWash08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:02 PM EST

Just to be sure, Wolf Blitzer on CNN reminded us that a win in SD or a loss in MT does not matter anymore because

HIS GOLDEN BOY is now THE NOMINEE!

I'm going to bed right after Hillary's speech.

Tim Russert just sent out the signal (5.00 / 4) (#113)
by ineedalife on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:42 PM EST

He said that is now a whole new ballgame and a whole new set of questions that Obama has to answer.

Let the feeding frenzy begin.

Yeah Russert will stick with McCain... (none / 0) (#122)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:17:51 PM EST

...But I think Obama has a true blue fanboy in Tweety.

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Keith O (none / 0) (#125)
by LoisInCo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:19:55 PM EST

for sure. Tweety is prone to hissy fits and may retreat to his fallback McCain at any moment.

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: KO (none / 0) (#145)
by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:29:25 PM EST

will be their token 'We're making it fair and balanced." Wow Russert was fast. I figured he'd at least wait until Hillary was forced to concede by the power brokers who are peing themselves at the idea this could go to convention..

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Tweety's McCain's dog: Pants are older, smellier (none / 0) (#176)
by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:35:55 PM EST

Remember the spectacle of Tweety slobbering into the dank forbidden folds of Fred Thompson's mildewed old pants?

Pay attention, Westminster Kennel Dog Show alums, (working group), Tweety's taking you to school!

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Theory why more bloggers today.. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:15:16 PM EST

there was an Obama memo to his bloggers to go and dominate pro-Hillary sites and flood comments of love and hate for McCain..

It won't help.. it is too late.

McCain is better period. Please stop calling me names if I say "I will vote of McCain on merits".

: Could I get a copy? (none / 0) (#147)
by Newt on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:31:03 PM EST

I'm an Obamabot and I didn't get the memo!

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If she ain't (5.00 / 1) (#123)
by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:18:10 PM EST

on the ticket voting for him is a no go. I don't care about the whys or pleasantries of "he tried." In the words of Yoda, there is no "try."

If (5.00 / 4) (#129)
by chrisvee on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:20:39 PM EST

the Obama campaign wanted unity, they should have spent the last few weeks sending out the message that it would be an honor to be on the same ticket with Hillary Clinton.

They also shouldn't have taken those 4 MI delegates.

It's silly (5.00 / 1) (#134)
by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:22:56 PM EST

Obama's problem in unifying the party is not JUST disaffected Clinton supporters.

CNN just announced /clinton winner in SD by 14% (5.00 / 2) (#146)
by mogal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:29:56 PM EST

so far. Then Wolfe used the word ironically.

I hope it happens (4.00 / 0) (#5)
by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:52:43 PM EST

Together I think they can defeat McCain.

McCain is speaking and... (5.00 / 0) (#17)
by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:56:31 PM EST

it's like watching paint dry.

Americans have shown how they choose candidates. If Obama cannot win the PR war, then he does not deserve to win.

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: Indeed, his delivery is terrible (5.00 / 0) (#24)
by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:17 PM EST

and his content straight out of 1994.

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I'm okay with that... (1.00 / 1) (#2)
by mike in dc on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:51:26 PM EST

...and I think that would be a nice gesture by both of them.

Pffft. (2.00 / 0) (#13)
by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:55:55 PM EST

Come up with a VP candidate then.

He'll lose without her.

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Hardly (1.00 / 1) (#28)
by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:59 PM EST

McCain keeps trailing Obama in the polls and once people start focusing on the economy, McCain's age, and that he wants to stay in Iraq another hundred years Obama's lead will widen even more.

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You're (5.00 / 4) (#97)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:16 PM EST

kidding right? This has been the same story for months and the poll numbers don't change. This is one of the fatal errors of the Obama campaign: they think that no one could possibly vote for McCain.

Dick Morris said the most astute thing about this election the other night:
In a year that Democrats can't lose they nominate a candidate who can't win and the GOP in a year they can't win nominates a candidate that can't lose.

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: Ugh to Dick (5.00 / 1) (#111)
by LoisInCo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:23 PM EST

Morris. But he is right this time. That jerk.

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: Which is exactly the reason (none / 0) (#126)
by standingup on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:20:12 PM EST

Morris was doing everything possible to trash the Clintons during the primary. Now which sites do I recall reading quotes and agreement with Morris over the course of the primary? The young Obama fan base has a rude awakening coming for them.

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: Poll numbers don't change? (none / 0) (#171)
by Gabriel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:14:07 PM EST

Yes, Obama keeps beating McCain. Jeez, just take a look at RCP or any of the political markets. Obama is the clear favorite right now.

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Yeah, sure. (none / 0) (#46)
by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:33 PM EST

This is going to be fun to watch.

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She seems to want it. (none / 0) (#1)
by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:50:56 PM EST

I think she's doing this as a favor because he doesn't want her.

She would have far more power in (none / 0) (#14)
by inclusiveheart on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:56:07 PM EST

the Senate. Bill Clinton put Gore in a box. He didn't allow him to pursue the environmental policies that Gore had intented to pursue. I think Senator Clinton is well aware of how powerless a VP is when the President doesn't want to yield any power. I would be surprised if she really wanted that slot. I appreciate the fact that she said that she would be open to it if it helped the party even more in that context. Because I really don't think Obama's administration will extend powers to Cheney's "Fourth Branch" the way GWB has.

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did ya ever think (none / 0) (#32)
by Stellaaa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:59 PM EST

Gore did not have what it takes to get out of the box?

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: No not really because unlike Dick Cheney (none / 0) (#179)
by inclusiveheart on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:43:22 PM EST

Gore was inclined to follow the laws and protocols that apply to the Vice Presidency. It was not the "Fourth Estate" or some separate and distinct self-run government apart from the rest of the US. It is tradition that the VP serves the President's agenda when and if he or she is asked to do so. Other than that, they get to break ties in the Senate and not much else. Ribbon cuttings and that sort of thing...

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Her answer today sets her up well (none / 0) (#115)
by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:15:55 PM EST

Well, assuming that's what she really said, I wasn't clear whether she said it on record or this was someone repeating something.

If she says she's open to doing whatever's best for the party, she can graciously decline (if she wants) by saying that she feels she can better serve the party or country by being Senator.

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: Yes she said she would be open to (5.00 / 2) (#180)
by inclusiveheart on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:45:59 PM EST

the possibility if it would help the party. Of course, people are now claiming that she is "demanding" it. Personally, after seeing her speech tonight, I think she is demaning universal healthcare which is perfectly honorable and reasonable in my mind.

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I don't think she does. (none / 0) (#63)
by Joan in VA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:11 PM EST

Just a charade all around for unity. Unless Fineman is making stuff up. Which is possible.

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No, she wants it. (none / 0) (#78)
by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:57 PM EST

He doesn't want her. He'll only offer if she says she'll refuse.

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: Theater of the absurd? Making both look bad. (none / 0) (#132)
by jawbone on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:21:58 PM EST

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Actually (none / 0) (#10)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:55:34 PM EST

I believe it because I don't think Hillary wants to be on a losing ticket in the fall. It also relieves her of any responsibility for Obama's loss in Nov.

: She can commit (5.00 / 3) (#64)
by 0 politico on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:26 PM EST

to helping to campaign for him. But, I do not believe in a unity ticket because I cannot believe in him. I don't want to see her tainted by being part of that ticket. She can be more effective in the Senate in pushing progressive issues, if he somehow manages to win the GE. If he doesn't win in November, she may be able to run again with less resistance from the party "leaders".

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all I have on my tv is an old man (none / 0) (#11)
by Chamonix on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:55:34 PM EST

mumbling words, some of which I don't know what language he is speaking. The old man is standing in front of a green banner with a star above his head. This poor pathetic fellow could not even get his own show on public access. This is the best they got? Makes Dole seem like Zeus. Who are these -extras- zombies in the audience? Who is his audience? Call me confused.

his speech is bringing more (5.00 / 0) (#20)
by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:02 PM EST

unity, he should have skipped tonight. The comparisons are going to be pretty bad after Clinton and Obama speak.

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: George W. Bush (none / 0) (#59)
by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:04:27 PM EST

lost every debate with Gore and Kerry.
Please don't pretend that this election is going to be different as far as the MSM is concerned.

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please stop referring to McCain as old.... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by p lukasiak on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:53 PM EST

its a sign of disrespect for older Americans. Critixize his policies and ideas and his record.

But its no more appropriate to criticize McCain because of his age than to trash Clinton because of her gender.

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: They don't want to (5.00 / 1) (#121)
by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:17:19 PM EST

realize that is one of the demographics that are leaning away from Obama, but let's watch Obama supporters keep slamming Clinton demographics because Obama can win without them.

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Sounds silly to me... (none / 0) (#36)
by gmo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:50 PM EST

...posted this on the earlier open thread, but:

Why would she ask for it to decline it? What is gained? Party disunity? The ability to insult the presumptive democratic nominee? That she gets to say "I don't want it-- lose on your own?" I can see why the Obama camp would want this, but why in the world would CLINTON want this?

Does Fineman think that somehow this will appease the people who wanted to see Clinton at the top of the ticket? Doesn't make any sense to me.

: She's not asking. It's all theatre of the absurd. (none / 0) (#156)
by Joan in VA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:37:47 PM EST

He pretends to ask(showing respect for her) and she pretends to turn him down(but says she'll work to get him elected) and then both sides think the right thing happened. Doesn't really do anything for those who want her on top but okay for everyone else.

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Will they really had to cut McCain (none / 0) (#40)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:01:22 PM EST

just to announce that projection... keep disrespecting other candidates.

This is the scenario I'd most like to see (none / 0) (#48)
by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:58 PM EST

The "dream ticket" would have been Clinton/Obama. Obama/Clinton is too evocative of Bush/Cheney in that we'd have the less-experienced, less-knowledgeable guy at the top of the ticket. Hillary's depth would exaggerate Obama's deficits. And Hillary in the background would encourage rightwingnuts (and Obamites) to boo and hiss at her as a conniving cross between Cheney and Lady Macbeth. So neither Hillary nor Obama would benefit from this pairing.

Hillary can promote unity in other ways, and will. She's a professional--and a grownup. This is hard, but she's endured worse, as we all know. And she is committed to this party. Why, I don't know, but I do not doubt that she is. She will work for Obama's election.

I also don't want her on the ticket because I don't want her to be blamed when Obama loses in November. And he will. Sorry, folks. I see no way on earth that Middle America votes for Obama over McCain.

We can be proud that a black man finally became the nominee of a party. Sadly, we could be prouder if his party and the media didn't obviously tilt the scale in his favor. But it's best that Hillary not be on the ticket with him--best for him and best for her. I hope it's offered graciously and graciously refused.

Well, for what it's worth, based on the exit polls (none / 0) (#50)
by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:13 PM EST

I project that Hillary win win South Dakota 53.78/46.22.

: I almost typed Go Hillary (none / 0) (#62)
by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:10 PM EST

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No, not so much. (none / 0) (#69)
by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:06:31 PM EST

Sory.

I can almost guarantee that HIllary doesn't want (none / 0) (#86)
by athyrio on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:47 PM EST

the VP position as she has far more power as a senator...I think the Obama camp knows she won't accept it so they are floating these rumors to dispel the fact that she won't take it.....

: No, it seems to me she wants it. (none / 0) (#91)
by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:10:46 PM EST

He just doesn't want her.

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You will see lot more Obama supporters do this (none / 0) (#87)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:55 PM EST

they just can't help themselves!!

: Like when they called (none / 0) (#186)
by MonaL on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:23:02 AM EST

Hillary shillary or billary? Notice how often they refer to her as "the Clintons" but when they refer to Obama, it's Sen Obama or Barack Obama?
I read somewhere, (Glenn Greenwald?) that Geraldine F. was using her own money to finance a study by Harvard to review the sexism in this campaign. Can't wait to see the results.

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Another possibility: Hillary doublecrosses (none / 0) (#116)
by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:15:57 PM EST

Obama. Her people agree that she will decline the nomination. Then, when Obama publicly offers the spot, she accepts. What can he do?

Oh Axelrod thinks Clinton has great political hist (none / 0) (#119)
by TalkRight on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:16:36 PM EST

history!

BTD, turn this around. Suppose Hillary (none / 0) (#135)
by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:23:45 PM EST

let's out a rumor that Obama has offered the VP and that she has accepted.
Wouldn't that put unbeatable pressure on Obama to actually make the offer?
This is supposing she wants to be VP of course.
Obama and his cronies have been playing dirty tricks with rumors all campaign season. This would be great payback.

Oh man (5.00 / 2) (#158)
by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:40 PM EST

Last year's talking points really have a stale odor to them.

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I am afraid (none / 0) (#166)
by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:51:35 PM EST

that with everything that has transpired in this primary, Obama is AT LEAST as polarizing a figure as Hillary. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but the Republicans know how to push the buttons of conservative voters.

I know and work with so many Republicans and conservatives, unfortunately. Somehow, Hillary has earned the grudging respect of many of these haters. Meanwhile, when Obama's name comes up it's all about Rev. Wright and dangerous radicalism and all that other crap. Obama will energize the Republican base to mobilize against him just like John Kerry, just like Al Gore, just like every other nominee the GOP managed to demonize. That doesn't mean he won't win, but please don't kid yourself about this.

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Driving a wedge (none / 0) (#169)
by pluege on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:03:08 PM EST

but the Republicans know how to push the buttons of conservative voters.

more importantly, republicans (including their corporate media propagandists) know how to drive a wedge. There will be no reproachment between HRC and Obama supporters if republicans have anything to say about it.

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: Has the GOP (none / 0) (#187)
by MonaL on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:35:43 AM EST

been successful in dividing the Democratic party again? I am not a Reagan Democrat
I honestly can't say I will be able to vote for Obama or McCain in Nov. but I can honestly say I can never be a member of the Republican party.

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I never have believed (none / 0) (#188)
by MonaL on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:40:26 AM EST

either Obama were going to get us out of Iraq with any speed. But I do believe Clinton's universal healthcare plan would have worked. I do not think Obama has as much interest in it as he pretends, and I think it will fall by the wayside once in office.

I also don't think he'll make a very effective President, other than rubber-stamping a too far left congress, which the Republicans will ridicule and demagogue off of. If elected, I hope he proves me wrong, but I won't be surprised if he has only 1 term and we're stuck back in 2001-2008 like Groundhog Day.

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

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Gore wants to be VP again? (none / 0) (#140)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:27:26 PM EST

not hardly.

Hillary's coming in to speak (none / 0) (#152)
by Newt on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:32:56 PM EST

"Ain't no mountain high enough..."

She ain't concedin' (none / 0) (#159)
by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:42:07 PM EST

If I'm hearing her speech right, she's building up to keep going.

She mentioned going past 270 electoral votes, and making sure every single vote counts.

Boy, I hope I'm not about to be horribly embarrassed by this prediction.

Obama fake-offers HRC the VP spot (none / 0) (#161)
by No Blood for Hubris on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:42:44 PM EST

and that's "respect"?

Not where I come from.

Where I come from that's just spin. It's B.S.

Eee-ew.

(brushes dirt off shoulders, mimes knifing, mimes wiping crap off shoes).

I'd take away the opposite (none / 0) (#167)
by pluege on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:56:28 PM EST

If this is true, it heartens me to think that Obama realizes that he must show respect to Hillary Clinton and her supporters.

I would take away the opposite. If after all HRC has demonstrated in tenacity and reaching out to a broad democratic base garnering at least 50% of the democrats, and being that Obama is ahead in delegates only by the graces of an exceptionally flawed nominating process coupled with DNC skullduggery, that he wouldn't naturally respect her, then a lot of voters made a really bad decision. And he shouldn't have to resort to flim-flammery to demonstrate respect.

If Obama doesn't start sucking-up big-time to Clinton supporters pretty damn fast in a very believable fashion than its ahasta-lavista November.

Hillary talks about people (none / 0) (#173)
by rise hillary rise on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:20:10 PM EST

that she has met on the trail and how she thinks of them. It got me wondering, what about Obama? would you condiser that he thinks about a working class single woman who needed 2 jobs to afford a place to live for herself and her kids and couldn't afford health care? And it seemed very clear to me that the answer to that is "no." people like that don't show up on his radar. they really don't. and that's why Hillary won their votes so resoundingly.

Don't insult women's intelligence (none / 0) (#174)
by Prabhata on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:22:12 PM EST

BTD, Obama never respected Hillary. His demeanor and words demonstrated his lack of respect for her. That does not change because he offers the VP knowing that she won't take it. It does not in any way change my view of him and I truly believe it won't change any of the women who he has offended through the campaign. I'm glad she's not interested in a nothing job. She's fit for POTUS now.

Jeralyn has specifically requested that (none / 0) (#183)
by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:11:57 PM EST

people not insult the candidates.
Stop.

I'm cynical... (none / 0) (#184)
by kredwyn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:13:33 PM EST

But what would prevent the Obama team from leaking that he offered her the VP slot and she turned it down...without ever actually offering the position?

RE: Balogna (none / 0) (#185)
by fctchekr on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:18:17 PM EST

The media is going all out to trounce on both Clintons and we shouldn't be at all surprised if this is at the behest of Obama's campaign.

Fineman: Discussions Of Obama Offer Of VP and Clinton Rejection Of It Ongoing | 166 comments (166 topical)

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