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A War Based on Lies

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:40:42 PM EST
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While most of us will file this under "old news," this story nonetheless reminds us of one of the many important issues at stake when it comes time to vote in November: how long the misguided mission in Iraq will be allowed to continue.

In a report long delayed by partisan squabbling, the Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday accused President Bush and Vice President Cheney of taking the country to war in Iraq by exaggerating evidence of links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda in the emotional aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Here's the report (pdf).

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    A War Based on Lies | 22 comments (22 topical)

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    'm not giving either party the high ground (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by cawaltz on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:55:57 PM EST
    Just got the news today, my brother's best friend, a Marine, just got flown back from Iraq. He lost his leg to an IED. I'm sick of it because from where I am sitting BOTH sides have been playing politics with the military folks. The Democrats may say they are against Iraq but they have done little to nothing to stop the madness. Instead playing pretend that the troops would be reduced to eating camel and defending themselves with rocks if they didn't continue to fund the idiocy.

    At least some Democrats (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:03:32 PM EST
    have tried to defund it.

    But really, the only way to stop the war was to impeach Bush, IMHO. I know we didn't have the votes to do it, but d**n it, Nancy, you should have tried.

    Parent

    Some even voted against it (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by cawaltz on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:11:40 PM EST
    That said, my perception is that both parties, at this point are playing politics with this issue. The Democrats are too afraid that defundng it would mean they'd be called spineless traitors and they put that over the fact that more and more good men and women are having their lives destroyed by our continued presence there.

    It'd be different if I saw the Democrats take a stand in the last 2 years. Insead they have beent heir usual wishy washy selves with only a handful of them doing the right thing because they are afraid of a bunch of wounding words.

    I compare the bravery of the men and women who are coming back from Iraq, like my brother's friend with the Democrats and I find them wanting.

    Parent

    I agree... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:14:58 PM EST
    we have certainly seen how the few Democrats with guts and spines stand out in the House and Senate.

    Their numbers are far too small, unfortunately. :-(

    Parent

    Oh and I'm so, SO SORRY (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:12:07 PM EST
    about your friend.

    I didn't mean to leave that out. I think about our men and women over in those hellholes every single day. What they, and the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, have suffered because of this trumped-up "war on terra" makes me so sad and angry.

    Parent

    Defunding the war was one of the MAJOR (none / 0) (#16)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:07:14 PM EST
    ways we got of Vietnam.  It wasn't pretty but it was necessary.

    Parent
    How awful--hope he also doesn't have concussive (none / 0) (#20)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:07:04 PM EST
    injury to his brain.

    This is a horrible war, a terrible situation to put our soldiers into, and hideous for the people living there.

    Worst. President. Ever.

    Worst Press Ever.

    And a p%ss poor opposition party and not so hot when in power, either. Agree with you. More and better Democrats, please. Better media. Better president, as well.

    I hope your brother's friend does well.

    Parent

    I Have Had A Long Held Opinion That (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:16:14 PM EST
    even a Dem president won't get us out of Iraq anytime soon. I believed this about almost all of the original candidates and not just Obama. I expect some troop reductions if Obama is elected but nothing that really equates to ending the occupation. Some troop reductions might also come about under a McCain presidency due to military and political necessity.

    I absolutely agree (none / 0) (#9)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:19:51 PM EST
    with this.

    None of the Dem candidates were for full withdrawal except Richardson and Kucinich, IIRC.

    In practical terms, I think it will be very difficult to extricate ourselves from Iraq, thanks to the mess Bush has created.

    George McGovern had a great article in Harper's about how to do it, a while back.


    Parent

    Kucinich Definitely Would Have Pursued (none / 0) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:33:44 PM EST
    a complete withdrawal. Richardson said he would but then again Richardson has said many things.

    Our best bet of getting out of Iraq would be if the Iraqis voted us out. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening soon either.

    Parent

    As if we would obey.... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    the will of the Iraqi people...that's not even a consideration.

    It's a permanent military hub now, and will be until we get tired of our people dying and being maimed, or we go bankrupt.  Or we elect a third party candidate for president.  The Democrat and Republican establishments have no interest in ever leaving...any statements to the contrary is lip service.

    Parent

    Its a shame for all the needless deaths... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by andrelee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:40:47 PM EST
    and even more-so that impeachment is off the table. That leaves no room for any kind of justice. The kind of justice that is meant for the world to see and the kind that should shine brightly in the dark faces of Bush and Cheney will never meet the light of day. (Angry noise !!)

    There is no presidential immunity (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by HenryFTP on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:53:46 PM EST
    for war crimes, and it will be frankly easier to indict and try the responsible parties for war crimes after they leave office in January than it would be to put up with the parliamentary shenanigans of the Republicans in impeachment proceedings, which will only result in acquittal (as you can't seriously begin to think that 17 Republican senators will vote for conviction, not when they're not even concerned that authorization of torture was being openly discussed in the White House).

    This is why Bush is pushing so hard for telco immunity -- it's really so that he can suppress the evidence of his own crimes. The man may be hopelessly inarticulate, but I trust that nobody now underestimates his low cunning.

    Parent

    Where have we gone? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:04:54 PM EST
    I can't believe that we're even having a discussion about torture in this country. All through my life I was brought up with the principle that American's don't do these things. That was the KGB. They spied on the people and tortured. Those nasty commies that hated our freedom.

    Parent
    War (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:00:50 PM EST
    I'm not much for messing with the Constitution, but I would like to see an amendment that would require the draft to be reinstated with any military action. Also that the national budget would be cut by X% to offset costs. I think a lot of flag wavers would use there head if they had to go back to their family and states to tell them there kids are going to be shipped out.

    In principal sure (none / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:43:54 PM EST
    But in action...

    HELL NO.  I will be a hypocrit here.  But then again, I am 23.  I would prefer not to ship the rest of my friends off to war(or me).

    Maybe we should just draft all the congress members who voted for it....

    Parent

    I heard on Thom Hartmann (none / 0) (#1)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:49:59 PM EST
    that Bush wrote a letter to Congress promising them that Saddam was behind 9/11.

    I wonder if that's in the report?

    Bush had to certify (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by HenryFTP on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:17:45 PM EST
    that Iraq was in league with the "terrorists" to meet the criteria for taking military action under the AUMF (which was not just a blank check, although Bush has effectively treated it as such and Congress has done little to disabuse him of it, like repealing it).

    I don't have the link anymore, but his lawyers weren't stupid enough to permit him to make the 9/11 link in the official certification (either Cheney and Addington got overruled, or Addington is a truly dangerous guy -- I suspect the latter).

    Somebody will have to explain to me why it has taken 17 months since the new Congress began in January 2007 for this report to be released. I think even old Melvin Laird would have found it outrageous.

    Parent

    Accountability and Deterrence (none / 0) (#17)
    by santarita on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:13:54 PM EST
    I favor impeachment but recognize the political realities at this point.  I'd also favor indictments after the rascals leave office.  But I doubt that will happen regardless of who wins.  

    My biggest concern is that this bamboozlement has happened before ("Remember the Maine") ("Hussein has Been Seeking Yellowcake Uranium") and will happen again unless the new Congress and the new President take affirmative steps to deter such behavior.  One would be to agree that the U.S. would be subject to the International War Crimes Tribunal.  (I hope that's the right name.)  It was one of those treaties that we backed out or or refused to sign under pressure from the Republicans.  Another would be serious reform of the Intelligence Agencies and their relationship to the three branches of government.  

    Dem leader (none / 0) (#21)
    by cawaltz on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 07:37:53 PM EST
    Impeachment is OFF the table. Is it any wonder I don't call myself a Democrat anymore. Alot of our so called leaders are flat out wrong, just like theirs.

    Parent
    The cunning of GWB (none / 0) (#19)
    by Oceandweller on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:56:04 PM EST
    Though knowing without the shadow of a doubt that the mastermind behind Bush is Dickie , we need -once the GE is over and regardless of our choice in the Primary , our nominee is sitting in the WH, then and only then petition for GWB trial; not only this hapless creature has cut down our international standing by allowing our forces to become thugs as debased as KGB and Gestapo , he also has cut down our ties with our allies. Small wonder they are rejoicing that there is hope of decency again in the WH, and living abroad I can assure you that they would have rejoice also for Hillary; GWB being considered akin to the Black Death . the infamous flying prisons have really cut our standing I can tell you. GWB will do his utmost not to be tried, and IMVHO , I would be ashamed to lean he is tried by Den Hague Tribunal and not by ourselves.
    The man and his nefarious team has hickjacked our country playing on our 9/11 fears and tears. It has been 7ys of emotionnal blackmail. Young american lives and countless less known yet as dear to their own iraqi families lives have beenerased becaus of his . God d...n GWB.

    The link is wrong (none / 0) (#23)
    by jccamp on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 10:55:49 PM EST
    The correct link to the Part II report is here.

    Now, anyone talking impeachment and war crimes should at least take the time to read the report.

    According to the Senate report, the great majority of the Administration's pre-war statements are, in fact, consistent with the Intelligence estimates of that time. Please note in the much-ballyho'd" A War Based on Lies", those instances when the Senate report indicates a divergence of intelligence and statements, the report's language suddenly adds "implications", as in "statements and implications." So, the report alleges that the President and his people "implied" things that were not substantiated by intelligence. Of course, one could reasonably read (in the report) and interpret that the intelligence implied the same things as the Administration.  

    The report also finds fault with the Administration for making a case consistent with the National Intelligence Estimates, but publicly ignoring the minority view(s) when they disagreed with the NIE. By the same logic, I guess that, for instance, Al Gore should be making note of the minority of scientists who believe global warming is completely unproven and speculative.  

    Just a few other things: the report was written by 2 senior Democratic staffers. The Republican minority had no say in its composition. The report is unsurprisingly political in nature. Also, the Senate Committee chose to ignore any contemporaneous statements or public speeches made by the Committee members themselves, who had the same intelligence access as the Administration. That's because a number of the Senators made statements identical in all respects to those of the Administration, which are of course, the "Lies" of the article title. I suppose it wouldn't do to have the same authors of the report, entitled by the media as "Lies", exposed as making identical - and presumably untruthful - statements as the Administration.

    No one can be happy with the Iraq war, but there is very little basis for concluding bad faith on the part of the Administration, as opposed to, say, over-reliance on faulty intelligence, wishful thinking, or even stupid-but-good-faith.

    There is nothing that justifies 'A War Based on Lies" but perhaps more wishful thinking, from the other side this time.  

    A War Based on Lies | 22 comments (22 topical)

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