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Thursday Open Thread

Do you have things on your mind other than what we are writing about today? Here's a place to vent them.

Earlier, Big Tent Democrat wrote "What Now?" describing what he will blog about here on out. He also posted (more) perspectives on sexism.

I'm glad to see TChris is back with his informative posts on continuing injustices.

The message if there is one: We will all survive. I plan to use Obama's promise of change to make specific requests on how to bring it about. I'm not a party activist. I'm an advocate for causes I believe in. I am going to support Barack Obama, but I'll be nudging him along every step of the way to do more. No free passes for anyone.

I'll be back tonight.

Comments now closed.

< A War Based on Lies | Hillary Clinton, Media Darling? >
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  • I am very interested (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:49:05 AM EST
    in the report that came out today regarding the BushCheney lies on Iraq.

    The most fascinating thing to me is the tone of the article. The NY Times seems much more exercised over the "partisanship" in the Senate Intelligence Committee than it does by the fact that we were, ya know, like, lied into an endless war and stuff.

    Episode #750,000 of "Why Our Media Sucks."

    "Not supported by evidence" (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:53:10 AM EST
    "exaggerations"

    When they no longer feel it necessary to avoid the word "lies", I will know we're moving to solid ground.

    Parent

    I totally agree with you! (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Binx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:52:20 PM EST
    The whole time I was reading about the report I couldn't help but think "they are using every combination of words possible to avoid using the word 'LIE'".

    Parent
    Well, Media Matters has yet to utter word one about the manner in which the media unanimously slandered Senator Clinton last week for her reference to RFK.

    Instead, they have focused on the media's lack of criticism of McCain. Meanwhile, they've been quick to tamp down emerging signs of buyer's remorse among pundits who fell hard for Obama. At present, MediaMatters notes that the tingle worm has turned for Chris Matthews.

    The very same night that Obama 'clinched' the nomination Tweety started to question Obama's ability to connect with, and appeal to, the struggling middle class:

    But isn't there something missing -- isn't there something really missing in his biography that people can identify with? He's gone from being a poor kid, growing up in Hawaii, in Indonesia, part of his youth, mixed family background, had to struggle, worked with community organizations; went to these incredibly elite schools, Columbia and Harvard Law, making Law Review and all that.

    He missed the middle part. Most Americans don't know anything about being dirt poor and don't know anything about the Ivy League. They're sort of in this struggling class. The people in the middle worried about paying bills...

    Media Matters doesn't exactly bathe itself in glory when they use nothing but Obama's loosely factual memoirs to discount Matthews' conclusions.
    Evidently, Media Matters also has a hard time finding an independent, factually verifiable account of Obama's upbringing and personal history.

    I can't imagine Media Matters defending say, Bill Clinton, with nothing but quotations from his own auto-biography. Yet, that is what they have done for Obama, at some risk to their own professional reputation (imo). Meanwhile, ongoing sound of crickets on primary night slagging of Senator Clinton.  

     

    Parent

    Exactly, EXACTLY (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:28:02 PM EST
    as I predicted.

    MSNObama will soon become MSNMcCain. Olbermann and Maddow may hold out against the tide, but that will be about it.

    Parent

    Club Obama has Pests, Rethuggernaut has Thugs (5.00 / 0) (#218)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:12:06 PM EST
    Now you tell me which ones are a better bet keeping the media in line?

    I knew this would happen the instant Obama was the actual nominee, but dayum SenC's kung fu is good.

    She merely moved aside by suspending -- I hope that's what it'll be rather than conceding -- before muck from the long-pants media started hitting Obama.

    In closing, Heh.

    Parent

    "dirt poor" (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by ineedalife on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:09:19 PM EST
    What is the evidence that Obama was ever dirt poor? That his mom was briefly single? That she was briefly on food stamps? That ignores the fact that his grandparents, who were not remotely dirt poor, were standing by with the safety net. And that his grandparents did indeed step in and raise him. "Dirt poor" implies being genuinely concerned for where your next meal may come from. No safety net. A child is rarely aware that they are poor, even if they are, and there is no evidence that Obama was.

    So Matthews is actually being generous to Obama, saying he is tangentially associated with poorer people, even throwing in the gratuitous "had to struggle", whatever that means.


    Parent

    I still remember how both (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Serene1 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:55:17 AM EST
    nytimes and wapo in their pompous editorials tried to justify the war then. They had misgivings for sure but they were too scared to swim against the tide.

    I think that is what is wrong with the MSM, they would rather go with the majority opinion rather than the right opinion. That is why bloggers who are not scared to voice their opinions will rise to prominence.

    Parent

    I remember if you went against Bush (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by stefystef on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:04:13 PM EST
    you were treated as a traitor.  And the MSM helped to promote that imagine.  They were scared to go against Bush and would never ask real questions nor did they vet any of the information coming out of the White House.

    Now they try to act like the media was on top of everything at that time and any senator who voted for the war is a bad person.  

    Americans are guilty of one thing... short-term memory.

    Parent

    Kinda like the obama campaign...you are (5.00 / 7) (#19)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:15:33 PM EST
    either for us or against us...isn't he related to cheney and bush....if that is the case; it explains alot.

    Parent
    got a link? (none / 0) (#95)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:00:25 PM EST
    For the Obama campaign's "for us or against us" stance?

    Parent
    Newt....you go find the link...maybe that will (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:04:42 PM EST
    give you less time to bug on here....thanks for playing...

    Parent
    Which leads back to... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:11:39 PM EST
    probably the main reason HRC voted for the AUMF - can you imagine being a Senator from NY at that time (who was around during 9/11) and NOT voting for it?  That always seems to get lost in the accusations....

    Parent
    w-w-w- (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:50:39 PM EST
    d-a-i-l-y-k-o...

    errr...

    lots o' places.

    Parent

    Nice retort..... (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:51:10 PM EST
    ...I'll remember that the next time one of the Gotalink trolls responds to one of my posts.

    Parent
    I Can't Speak To Those (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by daring grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:01:05 PM EST
    who incessantly ask for links as a trolling activity.

    But when I ask for one it's because I googled the point in question and couldn't find anything that backed up what was being alleged. And because I know myself to be an excellent (but not infallible) researcher, I need to ask for a link.

    If that's considered troll behavior, so be it. I think (in my case, anyway) it's trying to give a fair listen to an opposing viewpoint.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#112)
    by sociallybanned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:12:22 PM EST
    O I'm going to steal this from you so I can post everyone because it rings so true.  

    Parent
    Remember freedom fries? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:38:56 PM EST
    And the punchline is ... (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:13:30 PM EST
    Francophobe Bob Ney (R- Grand Sac de D0uche) who spearheaded "freedom fries" as the GOP attack on all things French, has a French surname and, presumably, considerable geneological ties to France.

    So, too, do Frenchypants like "Total" Dick Cheney, Richard Perle and Tom "Man Purse" DeLay.

    What's the French word I'm looking for ... oh I know: idiots.

    Parent

    Plain Dumb (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Brookhaven on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:35:19 PM EST
    And, one of the Congressmen who came up with that ditty "Freedom Fries" in 2003 because the French opposed the US going to war, came to the conclusion 2 years later that the US had no justification going to war with Iraq.  Glad he changed his mind but jeez louise, he gave the Europeans more reason to call us rubes and in that instance they were right.  And, not only because of the cringe-worthiness of the stupidity of the change itself but also because when the French Embassy got wind of the freedom fries caper, they very pithily responded that french fries came from Belgium.   Ouch. And, you could just hear them chuckling under their breath while making that pronouncement.  

    And, if that weren't bad enough.  I also remember during this time, I saw a report on CNN where some people were dumping their already bought and paid for bottles of French Wine to hurt the French Wine Industry.

    I was scrathing my head and lol at the same time because they let their blind misplaced anger at the French (and in particular Wine Makers/Distributors, etc.) turn into sheer stupidity.  How could their dumping the contents of already paid for French wine hurt the French Wine Industry?  Jeebus.

    Outside of the continued battered image of Americans in Europe and not only because of Iraq, the image of those Americans dumping their already bought French wine with the purpose of hurting the French Wine Industry had to be one of the more embarrasing images of us beemed across the pond.  It just played right into their already snarky opinion of us (oftentimes as unfair and assy wrong as it is fair).  

    Parent

    No doubt the French..... (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:47:41 PM EST
    ...relished the idea of selling them more bottles of French wine to dump.

    Parent
    aaah yes, freedom fries...more stupidity from (none / 0) (#103)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:05:29 PM EST
    the senate/congress.

    Parent
    And what do you think about (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:58:56 AM EST
    the ThinkProgress piece?

    The Bush administration is bypassing the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee and is talking directly with Democrats about re-writing the nation's surveillance laws. ""He's not really in it," Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) says of his colleague, Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO). "Bond, he's just complicating things." Bond said the White House has "assured him that it was not negotiating behind his back."

    I can't say as I have much trust or faith in a Rockefeller-headed re-writing of surveillance laws; that the Bush administration is even willing to work with Democrats on this gives me pause.

    Parent

    Oh Lord... (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:08:44 PM EST
    you know what that means to me?

    Kit Bond is AGAINST telecom immunity (probably some Libertarian tendencies showing there) and the weak, spineless Dems like "Show Me Da Money" Rockefeller are FOR it.

    Jeebus Christmas.

    I wasn't bitter before this 2008 election, but I'm sure getting there!

    Parent

    Approval Rating (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:18:45 PM EST
    TP also has article on Bush approval rating at it's lowest point of 25%. And still the Democrat's are afraid to stand up to him. I really find this unbelievable. How bad does he have to get before they finally say enough. No immunity no more anything.

    Parent
    Are They Afraid To Stand Up To Bush (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:35:49 PM EST
    on the telecom issue or do many of them agree with his position? Maybe it just comes down to the fact that they would prefer to have the telecom $$$ in their campaign chests rather than having it used against them come election time.

    Parent
    I call the warrantless wiretapping (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:44:31 PM EST
    the "Democrat Surveillance Program." Think about it - what is Bush REALLY using it for? It sure didn't stop 9/11, now, did it?

    Blackmail would explain a lot of the behavior of our Dems since taking their slim majority in 2006.

    Parent

    And you (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:50:58 PM EST
    know what's even more amazing? They want to have a "unity pony" who will work with these losers.

    Frankly, it's why I don't think Obama losing in Nov would be any big deal. The GOP will run all over him too. It won't matter if they have a majority or not, they always seem to get their way even now.

    Parent

    maybe the leadership should concentrate on this (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:04:26 PM EST
    instead of interfering in the dem. primary

    Parent
    Flying Under the Radar (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by santarita on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:07:09 PM EST
    The Senate Report continues to add evidence on the already obvious - the leadership of this country misled us - through omission of information and twisting information.  The partisanship is for obvious reasons.  In an election cycle, how can one party admit that its current leaders are culpable in the unmerited invasion of another country?  I have two questions:

    1.  How will Obama change the partisanship?  Unless he brings in a substantial number of true Democrats (and not DINOs) on his coattails, he will face a Congress with a substantial group opposed to anything he proposes, whether the opposition is rational or not.

    2.  Can this country redeem itself from the stain of an unmerited  invasion of another country and all of its horrid consequences domestically and in Iraq without bringing to account those people who misled the American people into supporting the invasion?  


    Parent
    But (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by chrisvee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:37:36 PM EST
    will anything be done about it? Or will we only have  a report to show for all of this? I don't see how we heal ourselves as a country if we don't hold our officials accountable for the horrors done in our name. We have to take responsibility for what we've done.

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:45:43 PM EST
    aren't kidding? Where is the NYT taking responsibility for this mess? Judith Miller anyone? I can't believe these idiots. Oh, wait, yes I can.

    Parent
    So what's going on (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:49:22 AM EST
    with all those hearings and subpenas? Now with the primaries over will the Dem's get back to work and hold any of these crooks accountable? It's been two years and time is running out.

    My Guess (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Dave B on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:51:26 AM EST
    Democrats will be afraid of offending any Republicans who might cross over in November.  Nothing will happen...

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:16:20 PM EST
    That's the reason we have so many more Republican Presidents! They're never too concerned about upsetting the opposition. They concentrate on securing their base. Something the Dem's seem to have a tough time with these days.

    Parent
    Well The New Democratic Party Has (4.70 / 10) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:31:00 PM EST
    secured its base. It is just a much smaller base than it use to be.

    The "Big Tent" has been replaced with the "Obama Tent." It no longer needs the support of seniors, non-AA working class folks, some hispanics or women.  

    Parent

    I'd like to share this video about Hillary (5.00 / 7) (#8)
    by stefystef on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:01:17 PM EST
    Hillary's Passionate Journey

    http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4995731&affil=wabc

    It's from Good Morning America on Wednesday morning.
    I watched this and thought to myself... this is the nice, kindest, most uplifting piece on Hillary in the last 15 years.

    And I was pissed off. It's like when people die, it's the only time people find something nice to say about them.

    Hell, Nixon was praised and Reagan was given a royal funeral.
    It makes me angry when you can only say something nice about someone when they are gone.

    Where were these types of reports when she was running? The whole MSM is the main reason Hillary's message never got out there because they were so busy trying to bring her down.

    By the way, Hillary WAS NOT running for a third Bill Clinton term, like some stupid woman in the piece said... Hillary was running for her own Presidency.

    She's smarter than either Obama or McCain. And as usual, the smart girl is pushed to the back for a bunch of boys. How many woman have been used to help bring up new men in a corporation, only to be pushed out and/or marginalized so the boys get their power back.

    Howard Ickes said it perfectly... Hillary is better than her campaign.


    For me a vote for the dem. nominee (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:24:42 PM EST
    is a vote for the way the DNC, the blogs, and MSM mistreated Hillary during this campaign. If they get away with this again they'll keep doing it. I'll say it again, I won't be voting for him. I'll vote down ticket but not the top

    Parent
    Throwing Hillary under the bus? (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by DarielK on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:48:49 PM EST
    I just heard on MSNBC (Andrea Mitchell) that Charlie Rangle told Hillary that this was not her party anymore and that she should just drop out.  Not her party anymmore?  What does that mean?  I thought this was "our" party, not her party or his party.  Talk about a stab in the back.  Good-bye to party unity.  

    Parent
    pulling a brazille (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:58:31 PM EST
    I paraphrase her momma:  I'm sick of people in my party saying "my party."

    Parent
    where did Andrea get that? (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by DFLer on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:04:54 PM EST
    Charlie Rangal was most (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:16:11 PM EST
    gracious, I thought. Didn't hear him throw her or anyone else off the bus.

    Parent
    Andrea just knows..... (none / 0) (#185)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:54:36 PM EST
    ...what Charlie really meant. No need to report what he actually said.

    Parent
    Sounds like he was saying, (none / 0) (#171)
    by jackyt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:49:09 PM EST
    "The lunatics are running the asylum, now. You've done all that is humanly possible to stem the tide. Stop beating your head against this particular stone wall." The way I'm hearing it, it sounds compassionate.

    I believe Charley Rangel is a true democrat and a true friend to Hillary. She has taken public abuse like no one in my lifetime. At some point, true friends give you permission, even encouragement, to walk away from an abusive relationship.

    Parent

    What we have lost is incalculable (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:47:34 PM EST
    People saw something brilliant and beautiful, far beyond themselves, and it made them so angry they had to destroy it.

    It is a tragedy for the country and the planet. If it happens, and it may still, she will be a great president.

    Parent

    links must be in html format (none / 0) (#41)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:04:15 PM EST
    or they skew the site. Use tinyurl.com if you can't figure out how to link.

    Parent
    The CHANGE I'm looking for is already starting: (none / 0) (#105)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:09:25 PM EST
    On Good Morning America Thursday, ABC News' Chief Washington Correspondent George Stephanopoulos reported "the Democratic National Committee will no longer accept contributions from federal lobbyists, will no longer take contributions from PACs" in keeping with Obama's well-publicized policy.


    Parent
    federal lobbyists funded Obama til 2007 (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:32:46 PM EST
    when he turned "ethical" to compete with Edwards who had never accepted donations from them.
    Obama was even accepting donations from federal lobbyists while he was pushing through the important Ethics bill that Reid gave a newbie senator to pump up his legislative record before his presidential run.
    Lobbyists are now required to stand while eating, rather than sit - and their money is still flowing through Congress.
    But it's a start!

    Parent
    Tyranny alert.... (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:02:39 PM EST
    Military-style checkpoints in high crime area of DC.  Link

    What really burns me about it is the "legitimate purpose" caveat....in the America I know "because I feel like it" is a legitimate purpose, though I doubt the DC cops would like that answer.

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by eric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:37:44 PM EST
    that's scary.  Really scary.  Ironically, it's the cops that don't have the "legitimate purpose".

    BTW, here's my answer to the question:  "Because I wanted to experience fascism firsthand."

    Parent

    Good answer Eric..... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:10:10 PM EST
    I was thinking of just busting into song....

    "This land is my land, this land is your land..."

    Or maybe some Cole Porter....

    "Give me land, lots of land, under starry skies above...don't fence me in".

    Parent

    Among the 1,842 things that bother me about this (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:45:39 PM EST
    Slippery slope arguments that started being swatted away on 9/12 by those who wanted to ram through the GOP's wet dream of a unilateral presidency.

    Of course partisan locksteppers were quick to apply ridiculous arguments that hard earned rights could be shredded under the pretense of Nat'l Security concerns because if you were doing nothing "wrong" why would you be worried?

    And RW hacks, instead of focusing on the rights being shredded, instead helpfully swarmed peoople who'd been deprived as deserving it.

    From the link, and why I'll probably never join a political party again in my lifetime -- unless it's a gathering with snacks and suds to watch election returns -- but always support "special interests" I believe in, like the ACLU.

    "My reaction is, welcome to Baghdad, D.C.," said Arthur Spitzer, legal director for the ACLU's Washington office. "I mean, this is craziness. In this country, you don't have to show identification or explain to the police why you want to travel down a public street."

    Can you believe there's a huge segment of society that regards upholding the Constituion as dangerously Liberal (aka evil)?

    Parent

    Rezko verdict kept undercover (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by stefystef on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:05:19 PM EST
    The press has hardly mention anything about the Rezko verdict.
    Already, the same "cocoon" that the media put around Bush for so long is going around Obama.

    this blog covered it but not a whisper on kos (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:08:27 PM EST
    the MSM gave it the same no coverage.

    Parent
    Kos is too busy doing FP stories on (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:19:40 PM EST
    the color and grossness of McCain's teeth.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 8) (#28)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:35:50 PM EST
    Because that's what being a progressive is all about - making fun of people's physical characteristics. Had to point out yesterday to a couple of Obama-supporting co-workers
    that is probably isn't in their candidate's best interest for people to making fun of the opponent who can't raise his arms above his head because he sat in a cage for 6 years.  Probably won't play well to most people and comes off as childish and elitist. Especially when their candidate doesn't have anything remotely resembling that on his resume...

    Bus this is what happens when you have a campaign built around the support of children.

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#58)
    by chrisvee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:32:21 PM EST
    Mocking McCain's appearance isn't going to work with the groups we need to attract. IMHO it comes off as disrespecting a war hero because of the injuries he suffered - whether the characteristics were actually a result of his service or not. I also suspect that we need to stay away from the age argument. There seems to be lots of sensitivity to that issue amongst voters who feel invisible/dismissed because of their age.

    Now is someone can trigger a big public meltdown, that might help the Dems cause.

    Parent

    I am hoping for an obvious (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:35:25 PM EST
    "macaca" moment from McCain.

    Heaven knows he has the temperament for it.

    I don't like my choices for Preznit this year, and I won't vote Obama, but I just hate the idea of McCain so much...an implosion is the best we can do, I think.

    Parent

    My guess is obama will have a macaca (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:09:48 PM EST
    moment before McCain...could be wrong, but I don't think so.  obama has been gaffeing his way through this campaign, escalating with each one...waiting for the final one that breaks the camel's back.

    Parent
    Handy phrase: Obama will have a Macaca ... (5.00 / 0) (#176)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:50:53 PM EST
    Because it's happening more frequently and since his defenders can't focus on the Bad Monster Lady, they'll have to get his back on this stuff.

    It's just a matter of time before Club Obama will discover that the foot (yet again) in BO's mouth is made of clay.

    Parent

    It might be the other way around (none / 0) (#67)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:38:07 PM EST
    If Mccain picks Lieberman for VP the Macaca moment will be some off hand quip about the Jews or Aipac from an Obam surrogate.

    These Obama guys have not dispalyed discipline on the insults so far.  One outburst from a surrogate will blow up fast.

    Parent

    Oh Salo... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:45:55 PM EST
    I don't believe Obama has a prayer.

    It's just that I'm a Democrat.

    Stupid me.

    Parent

    Leiberman? (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:02:19 PM EST
    I see no way for McCain to pick Leiberman. He has as much trouble with his base as Obama does right now. Thet would boil him in oil if he went with Leiberman. I would expect him to appoint him to cabinet but not VP.

    Parent
    There is considerable (none / 0) (#60)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    room for the GOP to use agent provocateurs.  I know I would. If Lieberman were to be picked as his VP, you could easily see all sorts of wierd race cards being played.  LGF are already doing this with LIeberman and his name has on really been mentioned by Dick Morris so far.

    Parent
    Do you think (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:05:10 PM EST
    that Lieberman would be a good choice?  That isn't going to win many HRC supporters if that's what McCain is looking to do - don't most people think Lieberman is a joke?

    Parent
    McCain will not pick (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:26:08 PM EST
    LIEberman.  he wants to attract the democrats O is alienating.  that would be the worst possibly way to do that.

    Parent
    Liebernann's only chance in politics now (none / 0) (#116)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:17:55 PM EST
    is a Cabinet post.  He's history as far as getting votes ever again.

    Parent
    probably not from the chosen one (none / 0) (#129)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    Roll Call reports that during a Senate vote today, Sen. Barack Obama "dragged" Sen. Joe Lieberman "by the hand to a far corner of the Senate chamber and engaged in what appeared to reporters in the gallery as an intense, three-minute conversation."

    "While it was unclear what the two were discussing, the body language suggested that Obama was trying to convince Lieberman of something and his stance appeared slightly intimidating."

    Parent

    oh, and he has other problems (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:24:40 PM EST
    Reid signals Lieberman may lose chairman status: Developing...

    Parent
    Convince him (none / 0) (#160)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:44:24 PM EST
    not to pull a Zell Miller and speak at the Republican convention?

    :)

    Parent

    At this point (none / 0) (#184)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:54:27 PM EST
    I'd be happy to speak at the Republican Convention.

    Parent
    Samantha Power (none / 0) (#173)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:49:24 PM EST
    "just look at her, ergh"

    Parent
    ewww (none / 0) (#23)
    by KittyS on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:28:36 PM EST
    McCain needs to fire his PR dept.

    Parent
    Subjective reality (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:42:17 PM EST
    These are the same sites that came into being and to prominence by taking the MSM to task for their distorted and biased coverage of the news. I guess it's only distorted and biased when it's convenient to your cause?

    Parent
    Rezko relationship w/Obama was (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:22:26 PM EST
    covered/defended on DK.  

    Parent
    NYT's didn't mind stepping in.... (none / 0) (#164)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:46:38 PM EST
    Don't worry... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by santarita on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:09:44 PM EST
    The Republicans are adding the conviction to their top 10 character assault lists.

    Parent
    RNC (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Dave B on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:29:45 PM EST
    The RNC has already cut an ad about the relationship between the Democratic Nominee and Rezko.  They did not accuse Obama of anything, aside from poor judgement.

    I won't put up a link to it.

    Parent

    No he was in the original cut but.... (none / 0) (#195)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:59:04 PM EST
    ...they took him out when Clinton dropped out. Because, the Republicans, in case you didn't realize it, are running against Obama.

    Parent
    The timing of the verdict was pretty good (none / 0) (#14)
    by JoeA on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:07:30 PM EST
    for Obama.  That and the fact that he was barely mentioned in the trial and there is zero indication that he did anything wrong.

    Parent
    And on the Resko verdict (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:47:22 PM EST
    Obama said "this was not the person I knew." Have you heard him say that before...I have!

    Parent
    Can you imagine (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:29:35 PM EST
    if someone Hillary knew well and was linked to financially was indicted for corruption?!

    The cover-up is quite obvious if you think about it that way.

    Parent

    Did You Mean This John Hsu? (none / 0) (#220)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:13:59 PM EST
    A member of the Cornell music faculty from 1955 until his retirement in 2005, John Hsu taught lessons in cello and viola da gamba, and courses in music ...

    Or did you really mean Norman Hsu, a convicted pyramid investment promoter who associated himself with the apparel industry. His business activities were intertwined with his role as a major fundraiser for the Democratic Party and who was one of Obama's contributers.

    You really need to find a better example because questions about Norman Hsu raise questions about Obama.

    Parent

    I agree that it is probabe and there is (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:18:59 PM EST
    no evidence Obama did anything wrong. (Jeralyn, please don't get mad a me) But.....why, during the trial did Obama have someone there taking notes? I'm not suggesting anything, I've just not had that question answered.

    Parent
    wouldn't you, if you were running for (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:21:40 PM EST
    the Dem. nom. for President and you knew the press was covering the trial of a person with whom you associated for 17 years, that person being a campaign contributer, host of campaign fundraisers, the fellow who enabled you and your wife to acquire your mansion?  Be pretty foolish not to.

    Parent
    Completely naive (5.00 / 0) (#194)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:58:58 PM EST
    to think Obama was unaware of all the corruption committed by the very people he was doing political business with on a daily basis.

    I simply find it impossible to believe he wasn't involved in it. Whether we will ever have the proof and whether it will ever make it into the news is another question.

    Parent

    Have you been here? (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Jeannie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:13:40 PM EST
    http://liberalrapture.com/

    There is a fabulous bible scripture this morning on Obama and Rezko..... don't miss it!

    Hilarious (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by eric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:46:46 PM EST
    That blogger has talent and a lot of time on her/his hands.

    From Axelrod's Letter to the Arugulas

    Ha Ha!

    Parent

    Loved this.... (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:57:37 PM EST
    And the underside of the bus did runneth over.

    ...as well as the part about Christopher of the tingling leg.

    Parent

    OMFG (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:20:55 PM EST
    And Wright spoke freely to the Weasels
    of the darkness in his heart
    For he loved his resentments
    And chewed on them like a never ending delicious Porterhouse Steak.
    His resentments were good

    thank you for that.
    bookmarked

    Parent

    The Quote of the Week (none / 0) (#224)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    is hysterical!:

    If only Hillary would give Obama one of her cajones, then they would both have two.

    James Carville

    I bookmarked it too.  Thanks!

    Parent

    More.... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Jeannie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:01:03 PM EST
    If you scroll down there are more scriptures, too. So funny!
    I go there every day hoping there are more....

    Parent
    I do have something on my mind. McCain is similar (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by sociallybanned on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:25:49 PM EST
    to Obama more than you think.
    Anthony Arnove wrote:
    Will Obama stop the war?

    One of the most important reason for his success is the belief among millions of supporters that he alone among the major candidates is committed to stopping the war on Iraq and charting a radically different course for U.S. foreign policy. But is Obama really the anti-warrior he is made out to be?

    PEOPLE WHO believe Barack Obama will end the occupation of Iraq are likely in for a rude awakening. Despite talking about withdrawal from Iraq, his plan would keep troops in the country for years to come, likely well beyond his potential first term.

    In addition to the mercenaries and private contractors, that would leave tens of thousands of troops involved in so-called counterinsurgency operations. That's the same rationale the Bush administration uses for keeping troops in Iraq. Other troops would stay for "training" operations. This, too, is the Bush argument: we'll stand down as the Iraqis stand up.

    Take the issue of troop levels. Obama's Web site says, "Obama will increase the size of ground forces, adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." What do we imagine the purpose of those troops will be? To provide housing for homeless people? To teach children who are illiterate? To wipe out malaria and easy preventable diseases that kill millions of children ever year?

    No, those troops will be charged with protecting U.S. corporate interests globally, preserving "stability," protecting and training dictators aligned with the United States, and suppressing any struggles that threaten the interests of U.S. rulers and elites.

    What worries me now is that this wonderful site talkleft.com is now going to be for Obama and while McCain doesn't look appealing, I'm outweighing and researching the differences between both, behind the curtain of BS, it's no different  McCain before 2000 was more of a moderate.  He wanted his presidency so bad that he lined up with the Republicans and voted their way.  However, I don't buy it, he has been talking about greener technologies and I believe it.   Listening to Obama unrehearsed talk and what he has always stood for is the real him. Obama doesn't have much to stand on.  He rarely had interviews and when he did, he sounded more like a Republican.  Obama doesn't have much of a voting record with the exception of the one he stole from Clinton.  

    Taxes is another issue.  I think taxing to better our country is important but not now when payroll hasn't increased with inflation that adding more tax would kill us off instead of drowning and coming up for air.  Obama's plans show a big tax increase.  We can't afford it now!  It will only lead to more homelessness and more ppl getting on fed. govt. aid which in turn will result into even more taxes.

    I am voting for McCain.  I love Hillary but I can not vote for Obama when I know his true intentions.

    what preview means

    Listening to Obama unrehearsed talk and what he has always stood for is the real him.

    This wasn't clear.  Listening to Obama unrehearsed speeches definitely gives me the impression he doesn't always portray himself as he does on paper (record).  

    My observation (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Cate on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:29:43 PM EST
    in perusing this most recent open thread is there are a lot of handles new to me - not that I have been here that long myself. But, missing are the ones I have been accustomed to seeing. Anyway, I just thought I would comment that it appears the 'times they are achanging' here at TL. Good luck to you Jeralyn as you have been a wonderful haven but as you morph into another Brownshirts for Obama site I must say 'adieu.'

    Riverdaughter at Confluence has the welcome mat out to those of us who will never give up, never give in.

    On the contrary, (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by songster on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:40:36 PM EST
    here's a relatively new reader, a Hillarian, happy to stay right here, reading stuff that will help me think things through in a sane and balanced way.
    And get my focus a little off this *!$% election.

    I'm not interested in "giving in", either.

    Parent

    The primary is over (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:51:11 PM EST
    I am definitely not in the Obama camp but there isn't anything I can do to change the outcome. I'm from Illinois and my vote this election isn't going to matter one iota. Obama will do fine here without me. But there is life after the primary and there are still pressing questions that should be debated. We may not be able to alter the past but hopefully we can still have an intellegent debate of the future.

    Parent
    Maybe we are just tired but lurking. (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:50:54 PM EST
    Sometimes everybody is saying what I am thinking and so I rate them because I agree. If it is one of those days or nights, then no reason to write anymore. But, everyone is here. Just taking a second breath. And the site will be about issues and making sure Obama or McCain are not tying to put one over on us. That makes us concerned citizens. Whether we vote for Obama or McCain in the GE or not vote at all, that is our right. And that thought is liberating. We are in control of our own vote and without guilt. So stick around. Every body is still here.  

    Parent
    UHC without mandates is NOT UHC (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:34:50 PM EST
    Hillary's primary opponent ridiculed her UHC plan saying it would force people to buy coverage when they couldn't afford it, or didn't want it, a mandate. Uninsured are a major reason for the high cost of health care, or does he not realize this?

    So, what's the difference between his plan and McCains? McCain offers tax credits which are virtually useless if you're in college, disabled, unemployed, didn't file a tax return or a child.

    Does he even require insurers to cover pre-existing illnesses?

    So It Will Be Perfectly Above Board If The (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:50:29 PM EST
    Republicans run their own "Harry and Louise" ads distorting Obama's health care plan. After all it does contain mandates requiring that parents insure their children.  

    Obama or McCain doesn't make much difference on health care since Congressional Dems have already said that they will be too, too busy to tackle any major changes to health care anytime soon (Probably gearing up for 2010 elections).  I think Hillary would have tried to push them forward on this but I doubt Obama will.

    My prediction is that the only real change anyone will see on the health care front is an expansion of the S-Chip program that got bipartisan support prior to Bush's veto.

    Parent

    I fear (5.00 / 5) (#89)
    by chrisvee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:57:04 PM EST
    you are right but I hope you aren't. I have this little wish that Ellizabeth Edwards and Hillary Clinton are going to form an alliance to champion this issue as I fully expect it to disappear from sight otherwise.

    Parent
    Mandated vs non-madated has been covered (none / 0) (#134)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:25:19 PM EST
    elsewhere, but my understanding is that mandating coverage puts more of a burden on the middle class to pay the overall costs.  I'd like to see a good analysis of UHC that specifically addresses this.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:48:38 PM EST
    actually mandating coverage is about spreading the risk over a large pool of insurees thereby making policy costs go down. Obama's plan would actually make things worse short term.

    Parent
    more Obama propaganda! (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:55:00 PM EST
    that per Hillary's plan, the poor would be forced to buy insurance!  Obama repeated this lie over and over - and Obamamites believed him!! because it reflected their learned belief that the Clintons are Eeeeevil.
    Hate is a powerful drug and often zaps comprehension and common sense.
    Hillary's plan gave free or subsidized health care to the poor.


    Parent
    new word (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:00:05 PM EST
    propOganda

    Parent
    Big Smile (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:42:24 PM EST
    Found a very interesting post on sexism in the campaign. It included a very comical JibJab clip that I couldn't figure out how to link to without the article.

    Link

    Scroll down to the Jib Jab clip.


    We aren't turning into a (5.00 / 5) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    cheerleader for Obama site. See BTD's post.

    I plan on voting for him but I doubt he'll be a dominant topic of my posts here. When he is the subject of my posts, it will probably be to urge him to do something.

    For example, if I didn't have to leave for the jail right now, I'd be writing a long post on why he should choose a criminal defense attorney for Attorney General and how disappointed I will be if he picks career prosecutors for important posts in his Administration.

    Does that sound like cheerleading to you? It's a given that McCain will do those things, but I plan to use Obama's promise of change to make specific requests on how to bring it about.

    I'm not a party activist. I'm an advocate for causes and candidates I believe in.

    "Revealed: Secret plan . . (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:03:57 PM EST
    . . . to keep Iraq under US control"

    A secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.

    The terms of the impending deal, details of which have been leaked to The Independent, are likely to have an explosive political effect in Iraq. Iraqi officials fear that the accord, under which US troops would occupy permanent bases, conduct military operations, arrest Iraqis and enjoy immunity from Iraqi law, will destabilise Iraq's position in the Middle East and lay the basis for unending conflict in their country.

    Link

    Hopefully (none / 0) (#50)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:24:18 PM EST
    If Obama does somehow win in November, he can take a page out of the Bush administration handbook and throw the treaty out. They've had no trouble with this strategy, even with the quaint Geneva Convention.

    Parent
    har har har (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:28:06 PM EST
    no he wont.

    Parent
    prediction (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:59:46 PM EST
    he will change his stated policy on withdrawing from Iraq before the election.
    I want to see what the chorus boys do then.

    Parent
    How true (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:05:34 PM EST
    I think a lot of his supporters are going to be wondering where their great "progressive" idealist has gone. The sad part of it is, he was never there.

    Parent
    And neither would Hillary.... (none / 0) (#142)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:31:06 PM EST
    Occupation is the party line of the Democratic Party, pay no attention to their pandering rhetoric about being against a prolonged occupation...it's all for show.

    We'll be there in 2012 and beyond, no matter who wins.

    Parent

    Other Than Kucinich, None Of The Dem (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:43:04 PM EST
    candidates would have completely ended the occupation IMO.

    Parent
    John Edwards (none / 0) (#180)
    by eric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:53:06 PM EST
    would have.

    if elected president he would withdraw the American troops who are training the Iraqi army and police as part of a broader plan to remove virtually all American forces within 10 months.

    LINK

    It's ironic because of the three candidates, Edwards was the only one to say anything this clear.  Obama and Clinton clearly kept the question broad enough to continue the war.  Of course, many people never listened to what the candidates were actually saying, it was just accepted as conventional wisdom that Obama was the great liberal anti-war candidate.

    Parent

    Maybe Gravel....n/t (none / 0) (#183)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:53:41 PM EST
    And no one s/b surprised. (none / 0) (#125)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:22:27 PM EST
    This has been mentioned before, but it is probably reversible, if one wanted.

    Parent
    No Lobbyists (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by Rashomon66 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:05:51 PM EST
    The news this morning that the Democratic National Committee will no longer accept contributions from federal lobbyists or take contributions from PACs shows that Obama does want the system to change. I think this is good.

    Or it means that he wants all money (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:11:09 PM EST
    to flow through him or his campaign only.  It actually is a way to limit the DNC as an 'independent' entity.

    Parent
    to change (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:40:52 PM EST
    in a superficial way that makes people FEEL like government is more honest but without actually improving anyone's live.

    Parent
    Improve govt not lives - sure (none / 0) (#162)
    by Rashomon66 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:45:18 PM EST
    Well, I don't think the goal of putting a limitation on lobbysists or PACs was ever meant to improve anyone's life. It's supposed to limit lobbyists and such from flooding, controlling and / or manipulating the system by buying it.
    If the choice was to do nothing or to opt for change I think change is the right step.

    Parent
    Hmmm. (none / 0) (#192)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:57:48 PM EST
    If the choice was to do nothing or to opt for change I think change is the right step.

    And what the chances that nothing will change or that they'll think of other ways, with politicians' blessings, to bypass the new system?

    I'll go with the former, actually.

    Parent

    Public Campaign Financing (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by santarita on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:12:24 PM EST
    NY Times has an article about Obama dictating to the DNC about not taking money from federal lobbyists.  He wants them to bring in line with the rules adopted by his campaign for donations.  The article rather snarkily points out that this directive takes effect the day after a $2.5 million fundraiser last night that would not have been in compliance.  And the article points out that Obama may not go along with the public financing pledge made earlier because his rules are so equivalent.

     Obama's rules don't prevent the special access for special interests - they just make it a little harder.  It is disingenuous for him to claim some kind of moral high ground here.  And the NY Times' snark indicates that the reporters know that he is being more clever than principled.  His cleverness may have helped in the primary against a candidate that could not claim a similar apparent moral high ground,  But will it work against the "Straight Talk Express"?

    Hmmm, isn't he planning on tapping (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:05:11 PM EST
    into Hillary's big donors?

    Parent
    I'd like to know more about campaign funding (none / 0) (#78)
    by songster on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:46:36 PM EST
    if there's someone here with expertise.  Though I consider myself relatively "high-information", I wouldn't know how to evaluate either Obama's move or the criticisms of it.

    Parent
    Opensecrets.org (none / 0) (#155)
    by santarita on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:42:07 PM EST
    is a good place to start.  It's been a while since I last looked but they had graphs which showed donations by individuals and their affiliations.  It's been a while since I looked at the CREW website but they may have some links to interesting articles.  

    When the Carole Lam discussion started I started checking info from various sites on campaign finances of various GOP Pacs.  There are many ways, all of them legal, to funnel money from special interest groups.  

    Parent

    The Trap of the Media Darling (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:14:44 PM EST
    Anglachel nails it.  again.

    anglachelg.blogspot.com

    I thought it was going to be about (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:43:16 PM EST
    how Obama truly believes he is a media darling, and is thus utterly unprepared for the storm of caca that is about to be unleashed upon him.

    It was still great. Thanks for the link!

    Parent

    that too (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:45:57 PM EST
    Excellent point anglachel makes (none / 0) (#223)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:31 PM EST
    Obama is still running against the Clinton record. Just today I listened to a portion of Obama's town hall meeting in VA (which sounded like a speech - he didn't take any questions in the 10 minutes I listened) and he continued with criticisms of the Clintons for not delivering on health care promises. All he did was remove her name from the stump speech he was giving 2 months ago.

    I'm pretty sure now she will not be the VP.  He still thinks he needs to run against the Clintons.

    Parent

    I have something on my mind. (5.00 / 5) (#48)
    by Mlb1 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:22:13 PM EST
    OK, so Obama is supposed to change our foreign policy, reconcile differences with our enemies, support our allies and end the use of religion as a way to divide us?  OK, I just saw a post at Politically Drunk talking about the media reports coming out of the Middle East over outrage at Obama's remarks at AIPAC yesterday.  His statements concerning Jerusalem have let to condemnation throughout the Middle East and this afternoon the Jewish Newswire is reporting that the Palestinian President Abbas (you know the anti-hamas leader we support) has just announced a meeting to normalize Fatah relations with Hamas; this comment coming just hours after he lambasted Obama's comments.  Worldwide news agencies are starting to report this and our press is sitting on it.  Read the full article including links over at their website .  Politically Drunk

    The great peacemake has already screwed up the Middle-East and he's only been the illegitimate nominee for 2 days.

    Man (5.00 / 5) (#64)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:37:11 PM EST
    when Hillary made a statement about an "undivided Jerusalem" a few months back, the usual suspect on the blogs went crazy.

    Now, let me guess, an undivided Jerusalem is the truly progressive stance.

    Parent

    why, yes it is. (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:39:13 PM EST
    He'll even obliterate Iran if Iran nukes Israel.

    Parent
    Goodness! (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:23:27 PM EST
    How common-sense and reasonable that position seems all of a sudden!

    Parent
    I sincerely hope Obama also (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:24:49 PM EST
    adopts Clinton's position on UHC.

    Parent
    Don't Forget... (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:38:04 PM EST
    That Obama wants to change our Foreign Policy BACK to the policies of George H.W. Bush.  His words.  (So much for being a Dem, and so much for leaving the past behind!)

    Oh - and I don't care WHAT he says he's "going" to do - he says whatever is what people want to hear at the time.  

    I wonder what he is going to do with out being able to parrot (or copy) Clinton's policies??

    He is not getting my vote.

    Parent

    I Should Add... (none / 0) (#221)
    by AmyinSC on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:04 PM EST
    Writing in Hillary (cannot vote for McCain, either).  In the interest of full disclosure...

    Parent
    they reckon obama is a shoe in for the next four (none / 0) (#57)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:31:01 PM EST
    years. They were Bamboozled by all Obama's associations with propals.

    Parent
    Obama will never connect with many Clinton (5.00 / 6) (#52)
    by my opinion on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:25:25 PM EST
    voters because he will never accept as valid their reasons and principals for voting for Clinton over him.

    The Hill (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by magisterludi on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:27:54 PM EST
    March 28, 2008 article on Obama's "stealth" K Street Project. Not at all flattering.

    Got a link? (none / 0) (#88)
    by songster on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:54:22 PM EST
    I can't find their archives.

    Parent
    Obama K Street (none / 0) (#136)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:26:54 PM EST
    I googled the hill k street project and at the top of the page was ta-da.  03/27/07  Old news really.  Those were people he really didn't know.

    Parent
    good, stick around (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:43:14 PM EST
    you are appreciated here.

    Equal Rights Amedment... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by citizen53 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:46:40 PM EST
    and campaign finance reform are the two issues I would like to see promoted which are not discussed enough.

    ERA (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by eric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:10:36 PM EST
    is way overdue.  However, this campaign has, for the first time, really revealed to me why it didn't pass.  Sexism is accepted by even those we have considered "the good guys".

    Parent
    It did pass. It wasn't ratified. (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:47:50 PM EST
    Well, it was, actually, but then states rescinded.  It's quite a tale of our so-called land of equality for all.  So our Constitution, which originally was gender-free, still stands with its amendments that inserted suffrage and citizenship for . . . black males, because women were told "this is the Negro's hour" -- of course, by men, both black and white,  who really meant only black men.  

    There is this theory that history is cyclical. . . .

    Parent

    They never were the good guys (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:09:02 PM EST
    The sexism is the same we saw from "progressive" men in the 60s and 70s. The whole thing, in the press, the liberal commentators is the same.

    Parent
    And the collaboration (5.00 / 0) (#214)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:10:01 PM EST
    of a lot of "progressive" women is also the same.

    Parent
    Alhtough I liked Sclar's title: (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:47:04 PM EST
    What Does Hillary Want?  Respect.

    for everyone (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:58:09 PM EST
    to stfu about what she wants?


    Parent
    Why didn't I realize this before? (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by phat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:51:27 PM EST
    Obama hasn't said anything about the misogyny in this campaign because Chris Matthews would stop kissing his ass.

    Is that correct?

    From Riverdaughter at the Confluence: (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by g8grl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:11:20 PM EST
    "Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from Michigan and both states had been able to seat with full strength, she could have added over 86 delegates and he would have lost 59. Hmm, that brings her total to 1725 and Obama's to 1707. Day-um! I wouldn't concede either."

    Wow...I just gotta say WOW


    I'm really getting tired of that one (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:47:04 PM EST
    In this universe, even if Hillary had gotten everything she wanted out of the RBC, Obama would not have gotten 0 delegates from Michigan. Even Ickes said so at the meeting.

    Parent
    I just really don't understand why (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by BGP on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:21:47 PM EST
    hate Hillary is still the dominating the blogs.

    You'd think it would all be about Obama now.

    It's very puzzling.

    It's an addiction (none / 0) (#172)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:49:14 PM EST
    And addictions are hard to kick.

    Parent
    The "lesser of two evils" argument (5.00 / 9) (#130)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:24:28 PM EST
    just doesn't work anymore on me -- that's today's dawning realization in my new life as no longer a Dem but an Independent.  Both of the choices left to me are men who have done and would do evil, both are from parties that now are evil as well.  So I'm not going to vote for either one.

    This is an amazing feeling -- like the last time I took off pantyhose, never to wear them again. :-)  I suppose the time will come when I have to struggle into them again, just as there may (but it's far less likely) come a time when I have to vote for a "lesser evil" Dem again.  But that will be even more of a struggle.

    This is driving my Obama-mad and diehard Dem family members crazy.  It's making them work even harder on me, while it's making me care not at all about what they say anymore.  I just point to the huge holes in their arguments, without investing emotionally at all anymore.  I just have my fun with them, as some of them have so enjoyed having their fun with me over every attack on Clinton.

    I like making Obama backers work harder.  They are going to have work their butts off in months to come.  It will feel like, y'know, the Bataan death march for them -- while for me, every day is just  like a day on the beach now . . . watching them continue to act like lemmings over a cliff they can't see.  They really think that Clinton voters will just come on over with them like good grrrlz.

    Nice to have you on.... (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:33:47 PM EST
    the "none of the above" team Cream.  

    I'm thinking we will top 5% this year:)

    Parent

    Hey, kdog, I'm still going to disagree (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:53:06 PM EST
    with you a lot, y'know.  I gotta have that fun, too.  But then, you didn't need the warning -- as the last adjective that comes to mind about you is "complacent." :-)  Keep on fighting the good fights -- while we let the mudwrestlers just wallow in the muck they've created for themselves. . . .

    Parent
    I'm on board too (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:01:09 PM EST
    It feels great. But where are we going?

    Parent
    That's... (5.00 / 4) (#149)
    by gmo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:39:14 PM EST
    ....fabulous :) I love the picture of your family members peddling doubly hard.  

    My partner and I have gotten into some arguments with friends who called on Tuesday to talk about how "historic" and "exciting" Obama's nomination was.  When we offered our real feelings on how HRC was knocked around, and that we weren't exactly in a place to be thrilled, it was like our viewpoints were suddenly awfully inconvenient for them.  

    We needed to drive home the point that even in their own comfortable circle of friends, the Unity schpiel isn't going to be a given.  They're going to need to WORK.

    Parent

    Or as my Obama-supporting friend (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:41:40 PM EST
    sd. at lunch on Wed., after she raved about Obama's speech and Clinton's failure to concede:  you won't vote for McCain will you?

    Parent
    You should say yes (5.00 / 0) (#206)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:03:59 PM EST
    Even if you don't mean it. That will either shut them up quickly or you can listen to them try and defend the Precious.  It might be some free entertainment, at the least...

    Parent
    There's an article on Rasmussen Reports (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by kmblue on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:31:42 PM EST
    about angry old white broads (I am one, so I can say that) that are not gonna vote Obama.
    Someone posted it earlier.  I have tried and failed.
    Entertaining reading.  Cream, your serenity is lovely.

    It is not "our" chosen candidate (5.00 / 0) (#203)
    by angie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:02:51 PM EST
    I'm sorry, but if you want to pretend the debacle at the RBC did not happen that is fine, but don't expect others here to not point it out that if the RBC had done the right thing (that is, not strip 4 delegates from Hillary to give them to Obama and not redistributed all the uncommitted to Obama, and had seated FL & MI fully) the pledged delegate count would be: 1725 BHO; 1707 HRC.  That 18 pledged delegate lead coupled with the fact that Hillary has a 300,000 + lead in the popular vote does not = "our" chosen candidate, IMO. Calling him the nominee is one thing, but as to any other description, I, for one, object.

    There's no chosen candidate until the convention (5.00 / 0) (#204)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:02:52 PM EST
    As I understand it, until the convention when the Dems formally declare it, Obama is only the presumptive nominee.

    Questioning his record, words and deeds is not an ad hominem attack, nor is questioning them in relation to the content of his character.

    DNC doesn't have money (5.00 / 0) (#210)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:08:12 PM EST
    for the 24 parties previously scheduled for Denver and will only hold one.

    That is the single most ridiculous thing... (5.00 / 3) (#211)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:08:29 PM EST
    ...I've heard today. Sorry, I don't mean that as a personal dig against you but... really.

    that is almost as laughable (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by angie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:13:09 PM EST
    as Obama/Clinton -- the ticket you propose is way too bottom heavy. As to your statement that Gore would lend the "gravitas that Obama needs" my problem is: I like my President to have "gravitas" already.

    It just feels right (1.00 / 2) (#29)
    by KittyS on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:36:14 PM EST
    to support Obama now.  Thank you TL.

    Emo voters. (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Fabian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:23:39 PM EST
    They gave us two terms of Bush:

    "The guy I'd like to have a beer with."
    "Terrify me and then promise to keep me safe."

    And my sister is one of them, unfortunately.  I'm sending out a F&F invite to PUMA - we'll see how she responds.

    Parent

    MSNBC is the source for that (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:33:49 PM EST
    "The guy I'd like to have a beer with." "The guy who will stop and help you change a flat tire." Al Gore would just keep driving, according to Chris Matthews. Those quotes seem silly now when you look at all of our country's problems.

    But these are the MSM pundits who brought our politics to where it is today, and now progressive blogs have joined them. Now they are cheering for Hillary's opponent. Do these same pundits who cheered against dems. in 2000 and '04 now really support the dem. cause?  

    Parent

    you know (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:48:47 PM EST
    I actually saw one of the tire change sessions.
    it was absolutely surreal.
    ok, lets all imagine O and the wife stopping to help you change a tire.
    ok? everyone got it? me either. I cant do it.  and my imaginer is pretty good for an old guy.


    Parent
    Betcha Hillary can change a tire (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:21:56 PM EST
    well (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:29:45 PM EST
    I cant really imagine Hillary stopping to help you change a tire either but it is less of a stretch than the other.
    and could Tweety be more ridiculous and irrelevant?
    what an idiotic mantra.
    you want someone to help you change a tire?
    elect the freakin AAA.


    Parent
    And now, it's Hillary who would even (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:28:29 PM EST
    drink the beer (or hard stuff), and as for changing a flat tire now, it seems that, again, would be Hillary, Obama would have to take off, or at least loosen his tie to do it. But, that's just my opinion. All that's been replaced with Matthews tingle (which when you think about it, is a feminine remark)

    Parent
    What matters in a president (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:27 PM EST
    is her image, right? Not her policies, her record, her character.

    That is the approach the media is selling. So they can sell the nominee they want

    Parent

    we will find out (none / 0) (#63)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:36:19 PM EST
    if they hate the party or that the antipathy to Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Clinton was personal animus.

    Parent
    you were generous giving this troll a 2 (1.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:54:04 PM EST
    Chuckie....It has been remedied :) (1.00 / 1) (#39)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:03:03 PM EST
    Don't know what came over me!

    Parent
    Occupying Iraq.... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:00:13 PM EST
    till we get tired of our people dying or we go broke...and not a second sooner I'm afraid.  Link

    50 permanent bases?  Permanent immunity from Iraqi law?  Sun god help us...

    Discussion of candidate smears (none / 0) (#38)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    elsewhere is not allowed. One comment deleted.

    as long as congress is thinking of iraq (none / 0) (#90)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:57:25 PM EST
    why don't they look into the 300,000 dead in mass graves that the admin and msm reported so heavily on in 2002? That was also a regular trump card played by the admin and here we are 6 years later without 300,000 bodies....

    they are with the WMDs (none / 0) (#107)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:10:09 PM EST
    thanks (none / 0) (#114)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:14:05 PM EST
    the ones that got shipped to syria?

    Parent
    Hillary on efforts of others to (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:00:23 PM EST
    get her the VP slot:

    NYT

    Found this interesting (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:20:32 PM EST
    They will include people from West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico and she can't round them up any sooner than Saturday.

    Don't the people who are pressuring her to move up her suspension realize that they will need her supporters and by her being able to give them their due will go along way in their support for Obama?

    This is just ridiculous. She knows what she is doing.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by eric on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:27:20 PM EST
    she and her campaign advisors are incompetent.  I learned this at TPM, DKos, and Eschaton.

    Parent
    Not according to one of my Obama-supporting (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:27:44 PM EST
    friends.  The day after Obama "clinched," my friend very angrily dissed Clinton for not suspending her campaign and not endorsing Obama Tuesday night.  He was entitled, apparently.

    Parent
    Not according to the Clinton organizer (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    in my county, a Dem party pol.  He switched to Obama faster than a flea jumps to another dog.  Just got a message from the guy, a message he is sending far and wide, saying that Clinton was just terrible to not ditch her Tuesday night time with South Dakota supporters, because she belonged in St. Paul on the stage with Obama . . . briefly, and only to pay her obeisance to the One, before he would toss her under that bus that must be as long as a train by now to fit in all the evildoers.

    I might point out that this was the Clinton organizer in the largest city in the state that really set back her campaign badly, Wisconsin -- where it was one of the worst-run campaigns I ever have seen, and that's saying something.  This guy was either Patty Solis Doyle's pick -- or, I think, the local party's pick.  There it is.  

    Parent

    Btw, I ought to have pointed out sooner (5.00 / 0) (#156)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:43:02 PM EST
    for the delectation of others here that Obama's pick for his victory party not only is, as you know, the site of the GOP convention and the site of Mondale's concession speech.  It is so much more. . . .

    St. Paul is the new name of that city in Minnesota.  Its original name was, I kid you not, "Pig's Eye."

    If the famous saying comes to mind, i.e., "Obama in a Pig's Eye," I'm just reporting the facts here, and you thought of that all by your nasty selves. :-)

    Parent

    O-loving Bill Bradley took 4 MONTHS (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Joan in VA on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:52:11 PM EST
    to endorse Gore. Pass it on.

    Parent
    Yeah but... (none / 0) (#197)
    by Rashomon66 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:00:13 PM EST
    Bill Bradley was rather insignificant in the Democratic primary in 2000. He withdrew in March.

    Parent
    I've heard (5.00 / 0) (#208)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:07:11 PM EST
    enough "Yeah, buts" from Obama supporters to last a lifetime.

    If it was okay for him to wait four months, because that was, after all, HIS decison and he has his own reasons for it, then it's okay for her to wait until Saturday, especially after this primary season.

    Parent

    Clinton Says V.P. Is Obama's Choice (none / 0) (#117)
    by gmo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:18:40 PM EST
    From today's NY Times

    As an ardent Clinton supporter, I strongly support Clinton's statement that Obama's choice for VP is his and his alone. That is his right.

    Do I think he should choose HRC? Maybe. But I think that will be a question for some cold, hard number crunching: he should choose the person that creates the strongest ticket for a victory in November, and that will require quite a bit of consideration.

    I don't believe in the validity of the strong-arming argument of simply putting her on the ticket because of the nearly 18 million people who voted for her. I think the right decision will definitely include his reaching out to her supporters, and retuning his brand a bit to include the values most closely held by many of Clinton's supporters (eg reaching out to Rust Belt Americans on economic & job issues, where she proved stronger in reaching those groups) but not necessarily by offering her the VP spot.

    Any other thoughts out there on this?

    Other than the fact (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:53:23 PM EST
    that it will not be Obama's decision and his alone, I agree.

    Why do people keep saying that?

    Parent

    Because (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:57:30 PM EST
    she's being classy about it, and not making the (presumptive!) nominee look weak.

    Parent
    gmo, here's another way to lok at it... (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:57:37 PM EST
    You say:

    I don't believe in the validity of the strong-arming argument of simply putting her on the ticket because of the nearly 18 million people who voted for her.

    What's with the perception of "strong-arming"? If Obama becomes the official nominee and 18 million people want Hillary on the ticket; isn't that a valid expression of the voters will?

    That being said, everybody should stop strong-arming Our Lady of the Pantsuit because she still hasn't officially conceded.

    Parent

    That's fair. (5.00 / 0) (#209)
    by gmo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:08:09 PM EST
    But I also think that those 18 million people didn't vote to just put her -anywhere- on the ticket; they voted to have her at the top. I wouldn't necessarily take it for granted that those people would also have wanted her to be VP to Obama, even if that's what she says she wants.

    See, that's where the DNC's RBC and I differ: I don't assume what a voter's intent was ;)

    Parent

    There is only one person (none / 0) (#126)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:22:44 PM EST
    Obama could pick that would get me to vote for him:

    Russ Feingold.

    Anyone else, including HRC, will not be enough for me to overcome my distrust of Obama's commitment to Democratic values.

    Parent

    Not for me. I'm from Wisconsin. (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:25:09 PM EST
    Ha! Guess you don't want (none / 0) (#150)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:39:54 PM EST
    to lose Senator Feingold!

    I don't blame you. He is awesome.

    Of course there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that Obama would do this. Feingold is too liberal, among other things.

    Sigh.

    Parent

    Not at all. One word: Ashcroft. (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:43:52 PM EST
    But there are many more that come to mind.

    Parent
    Per Huff Post, Hamas has "unendorsed" (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:37:30 PM EST
    Obama.

    Turns out (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:55:44 PM EST
    they discovered he used a staffer to fill out their questionnaire...

    Parent
    heh, (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:02:48 PM EST
    That's one for the books. It's one of the few things he just flat out lied about during the debate.

    Parent
    one of Obama's many lies (none / 0) (#217)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:11:29 PM EST
    But - as long as they're not reported on TV, he didn't lie.
    Bush2000 all over again.


    Parent
    There's always the (none / 0) (#174)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:50:20 PM EST
    important OBL endorsement.

    :)

    Parent

    A point of clarification about Clinton's debt (none / 0) (#207)
    by Exeter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:06:26 PM EST
    There have been alot of ugly comments about Hillary bargaining with Obama for him to "pay" off her debt. That is silly. Clinton has about 30 million in cash, but it is general election cash that she can't use on her primary campaign, which is about 10-15 million dollars in debt. So, she makes a deal with Obama -- who has primary money -- to pay off her primary debts in exchange for her transfering the same amount for his general. To the best of my knowledge, this is a fairly commong practice.

    Does Anyone Know (none / 0) (#215)
    by JimWash08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:10:46 PM EST
    Where the Farewell Rally in D.C. is going to be on Saturday?

    I have been checking me e-mail ever so often, all day today, every chance I get, and I haven't received anything from the campaign mailing listserv. I did get letter this morning with the announcement.

    I actually have the entire Saturday free so I most definitely can go. Only question is, where?

    On a side note, my girlfriend and I have been a real funk since Tuesday. I guess you could say our mind was prepared for the inevitable, but our hearts and guts are still hanging on.

    We are just so heartbroken, because for us, this was really our first, REAL presidential campaign, and we actually had a candidate that we truly loved and supported. Jess and I are still pretty sore, and our wounds are still fresh. It doesn't help that some of our closest friends, while mindful of the state we are in, cannot quite seem to take their joy down a couple of notches since their guy got the nom.

    (We were Clark supporters in 2004, but back then, our hearts, minds and guts were in agreement that he was a long-shot; and then we held our noses and voted for Kerry/Edwards -- no offense to their supporters here, if any).

    I wish there was a support group for people like us; but most of them seem to be online, and there are always the trolls that come in to dab a little snark on the wound. And there are the newsheadlines that are just so difficult to avoid.

    Sebelius Watch (none / 0) (#225)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:30:26 PM EST
    Marc Ambinder makes the case for Kathleen Sebelius as VP:

    In his mind, folks who know these things say, she is competent, qualified, young, and he can envision working with her for eight years.

    He goes on to say she is a "youngish 60".

    Do I even have to say any more?  

    Unity Schtick dies its rightful death (none / 0) (#227)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:25:57 PM EST
    THANK GAWD!!!

    PHEW

    Link

    Thank you Hillary, thank you, thank you, thank you!  Don't saddle yourself to this wagon!

    Snoopy dance!